The Mariners' Projected Win Total and How We Perceive
Anchors are powerful things. When it comes to evaluating something, we are invariably drawn to place the most amount of weight on one piece of information and then use that as a base from which to compare everything else against. This coffee is cheaper than it is at Starbucks. This apartment is bigger than my previous one. Today is warmer than yesterday. That is how many of us relate things, internally to ourselves and externally to others.
Those are all referential evaluations however. To someone that doesn't drink coffee at Starbucks, has never been in your old apartment or wasn't in town yesterday they are useless statements because he or she cannot share in your base point of comparison. As people, we share a frustrating habit of assuming that everyone starts from the same point that we do. The result being that we often talk/yell past each other because neither person understands the underlying individual experiences that shaped our views.
I spent time growing up near a free range dairy farm so I don't find the thought of eating veal repugnant. I have argued in the past with those that do, some of whom have made animal rights their passions. Because the arguments usually focus on the very end of the process -- whether eating veal is humane or not -- no agreement was possible. Points they made about crating did not have as visceral a reaction on me as it did them because that's not what I had seen. Likewise, they did not grasp that while some calves are treated in a downright shameful way, not all of them are and that me not being outraged at the veal industry as a whole was not equivalent to me condoning abhorrent practices.
If we had taken the time to explore each other's biases and bothered to explain the root experiences behind our feelings, we would have discovered that we actually mostly agreed in principle.
Other examples of anchoring are abound in our day to day lives. The easiest ones to spot are when transactions take place. Want to know why cars were sold for so long under the practice of a high sticker price and then a negotiation downward? Because as soon as you saw the sticker price, that became your anchor for how much the car cost. No matter what you did, every price less than sticker looked good in comparison.
It's the standard practice for anything since the beginning of time that did not have a fixed price. In baseball, it's a common practice in free agent and trade negotiations. It's impossible to avoid. It's everywhere because even if you know it's present, it works.
There are ways to work against being influenced though. Mostly it requires cognitive effort. That's why you should do research on the costs of a car before stepping a foot on a car lot. By filling up on facts and alternatives, you have weapons against the anchor of the sticker price. For interpersonal debates, it requires looking past the hot button issue to probe into the actually important, but much more complex, foundations. For the Mariners in 2011, it requires looking past the 61 win total in 2010.
Try as you might, that 61 influences you and it influences me. The past year's win total influenced the front office after 2007 and it likely influenced a lot of us after 2009. When Jeff offered a poll on how many games the Mariners might win in 2011, the median vote was for 76 wins.
Curious as to the actual nature of those thoughts and also because I enjoy attempting to puzzle out the state of the division, I broke down the projected 2011 Mariners into individual players and posted projections for the hitters and the pitchers. In both cases, the majority of votes said the projections look about right. A sub-majority thought the hitters were too high* but a similarly sized group voted the pitchers were projected too low.
*After a reasonable period, I re-evaluated my projections in light of the comments, my own thoughts and the most recent CAIRO projections. I made some tweaks that have taken the hitters down a total of about one win. The pitchers I left alone.
I take those results to say that a sizable majority of voters would have pegged the combined projections as about right. Also, though they were posted nine days after Jeff's poll, no meaningful roster moves took place in that span. Now here's the funny thing; those projections add up to the 2011 Mariners being about an 81-win team.
I am not surprised that a difference exists between the two estimates, but a five-win difference is huge. Especially when you factor that the range of realistic values is pretty small. We only have about a 50-win gap between the extreme low and high when it comes to realistic values to project for teams and that's equivalent to the three standard deviation mark.
I reject the notion that either of the two estimates is "right", but I find the disparity interesting. My economic gut instinct is that the 81-win estimate is closer to where people believe the team actually stands, but when directly asked, those feelings get mired in the 61-win anchor and thus dragged down to 76 wins. I also think 81 wins seems high for this team. But what do I know? I'm only human.
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Thoughts about the discrepency:
1) We don’t really have many realistically high upside guys, and we now know how much some of these guys can collapse.
2) Our division is tough, and win values are not division dependent.
3) It’s hard to argue with some of the projections mathematically, but easier to subjectively (Chone, Bradley).
I agree it’s probably anchoring related, but those are some random thoughts I’m playing with.
...and now I'm here
Did you already post the Bedard poll? 200+ All the way!
Milton Bradley is my hero. R.I.P. Dave Niehaus
My guess is that it's a function of not knowing how to deal with depth/bench/injuries
I wonder what we’d get if the poll was expected runs scored/runs allowed. My guess is that the totals would translate into a win total that was closer to the 76 win figure.
I have a hard time voting in these win projection polls.
Not because I am influenced by the past, but more the opposite where my judgement is weighed by the number I think it might take to win the division. So where I might peg us at 81 wins, I tend to lean more towards 85 because I’m influenced by what it might take to get to the playoffs.
I know this is a bad way of looking at projections, but I like to be optimistic
Okay
If we win 70-80 games and fall short of the division I will look at this as a step forward in the right direction.
If we have another 100 loss season or 60-70 wins, I will purchase a 16 year old bottle of scotch and a single 12 guage shotgun shell and stop the madness.
I think pre-pairing those 2 situations should have my disappointment covered.
by d0nkey on Dec 30, 2010 1:34 PM PST up reply actions 6 recs
90-94 wins, honestly.
Remember Ichiro’s deal with the devil? 2010 was SO far below talent level, that 2011 will be a stunning opposite! World Series ahoy!
by Steve Worsley on Dec 30, 2010 1:18 PM PST reply actions 1 recs
Last year's guesses were off the mark
The typical projection last year was 86 or 87 wins, and the team came in 25 wins short of expectations. If the underlying projection is sound, the odds of such a discrepancy happening are miniscule, yet it happened. Too many players had atrocious seasons.
It was perfectly reasonable to assume that Figgins, for example, would have 3 WAR during the 2010 season.
Can we make the assumption that all the horrid seasons are merely blips, and the players will bounce back? If so, this year’s projection of 80 wins makes perfect sense. 80 wins represents the midpoint of a bell-shaped probability range of possibilities. I would guess the Mariners have a remote chance of making the playoffs, certainly less than 5%, but it is still a possibility. Just as projections can be wrong in one direction, they can be wrong in the other.
by Tim B. on Dec 30, 2010 9:01 PM PST reply actions 1 recs
Also, the population of the poll-takers may be different in each case
I’m not ready to chalk it up to emotion, just yet.
Since the last poll I'm slightly more optimistic
so I went from 75-79 to over 80. Must be the Brendan Ryan Ripple Effect, plus the revelation of Josh Wilson’s ability to take a HP for the team.
ignacio
I'm not questioning your farm cred,
but I wonder at the disconnect between the dairy farm and veal calves.

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