New Trade Candidate? Mike Cameron?
by Cliff Lee Is A Beast on Dec 11, 2010 1:16 PM PST
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PrintSo everybody (I hope) has heard that Carl Crawford signed a huge contract with the Red Sox. But something else to take out of that is that Mike Cameron no longer has a starting position that he was already starting to lose to Ryan Kalish anyway without Crawford getting his contract
Jack Z is definitely not going to give Saunders the majority of the starts with the way he has been talking about his young players and their playing time. I couldn't think of very many players who would be a better fit than Cameron. He can play the 4th OF role as well as splitting starts with Saunders. Seattle loves him, it would be great to him back at Safeco. And he has more power to right field then most right handed hitters (which is important when playing at Safeco for those who dont know). He also underperformed last year so Boston would probably either include money or maybe take the contract of a guy like Jack Wilson as a backup infielder along with a fringe prospect.
Just a thought, but Mike Cameron would seem like a great fit for the Mariners, as he would be better than the other guys we have been linked to and may cost only a fraction more. And for Mariners fans, would you rather see Laynce Nix or Mike Cameron in a Mariners uniform?
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I love Mike Cameron but he isn't a fit
We’re locked in in CF, we’re locked in in RF, and Saunders is set to get the majority of time in LF. Cameron would come here to be a very expensive fourth outfielder.
I suppose the M’s could explore trading Gutierrez, but that isn’t a good idea.
I'd rather see Laynce Nix
because as much as I love Cameron, Nix just fits our current team a lot better.
by The Ancient Mariner on Dec 11, 2010 4:23 PM PST reply actions
Except for that one part that Cammy is one injury-plagued season removed from a 4.4 WAR season...
"Retarded isn't a race." -Thingray
by Matt Erickson on Dec 12, 2010 5:32 AM PST up reply actions
Cameron > Nix
Cameron would be a lot better fit than Nix as a timeshare with Saunders as well as a decent backup for Guti and Ichiro.
The only way I think it would work is if the Red Sox gave money or took money, and Jack Wilson would seem like the best fit for the Red Sox because he has great defense and he could be moved around the infield if needed, he’d be a great backup infielder if he wasnt the best SS we had.
I was also assuming that by Z’s recent radio talks (and Olivo signing) he doesnt want to guarantee anything for Saunders, Moore, and the other young prospects. Mike Cameron would help sell tickets and is probably available for trade after his injury filled year last year and the Red Sox packed OF. Give him the starting job and make Saunders earn it just like Olivo and Moore.
by Cliff Lee Is A Beast on Dec 11, 2010 6:13 PM PST reply actions
Cameron is destroyed by the ballpark and older.
He’s also on a more expensive contract, the Red Sox won’t want Jack Wilson, and we don’t need another overpriced veteran on hand if Saunders does earn his spot. Not much about this trade idea makes sense, and Cameron probably doesn’t want to come back here anyway.
...and now I'm here
Right, but Cameron's contract >>>>> Nix's contract
and Cameron’s age >>>> Nix’s age, and both those things are relevant, too. There’s no way the Sox are going to eat enough money to make the first of those go away — Cameron’s still a valuable player and they can still use him, so they aren’t going to pay most of his salary for the purpose of not having him — and there’s no way at all to change the second.
by The Ancient Mariner on Dec 12, 2010 4:51 AM PST up reply actions
Like I said...
Cameron isnt destroyed by this ballpark as much as most righties are. He has some right field power (unlike Jose Lopez and Miguel Olivo to name a few), he’s a lot better than Saunders was last year.
I dont know how many times I have to say that I think it would only work if Boston gave money or took money before someone actually reads that. Boston may want Jack Wilson as a backup, theres a 2.5 mil difference between his contract and Cameron’s and he’s an elite defender when he can actually get on the field (which might be more if he isnt starting as much). Cameron also only has one year left on his contract. If Saunders emerges he’ll start getting some more starts and then will be the main starter next year when Cameron would leave.
I can’t imagine that Cameron wouldnt want to come back here, more playing time than the packed Boston OF, Seattle loves him, and some of his best years were here. Not much about your response makes sense, this trade offer probably won’t happen, but it would be something to look forwards to and its possible and makes sense. here’s something to listen to show that Saunders doesnt have a spot locked up
by Cliff Lee Is A Beast on Dec 11, 2010 9:48 PM PST reply actions
This may come as a surprise, but my comment is actually way up there. The reply button would help you.
Response!
Cameron isnt destroyed by this ballpark as much as most righties are
Isn’t is a contraction of two words, “is” and “not.” It should have an apostrophe. Also, Cameron WAS destroyed by Safeco when he was here before, so why do you think he wouldn’t be destroyed by Safeco now? In addition, again, he’s older, so his power is going to leave him.
I dont know how many times I have to say that I think it would only work if Boston gave money or took money before someone actually reads that.
We’re ignoring it because it’s a really, really bad idea to involve yourself in rampant trade speculation with no basis in fact. You have no insight into the Boston front office. Not only would they probably not eat any of his income, but they don’t want Jack Wilson, and you should probably avoid trying to make trade speculations based on your own personal theories. It’s called “Rosterbation” and it’s not an acceptable discussion technique on Lookout Landing or USSMariner. It’s pretty popular on MLBTradeRumors though so you can always head there.
I can’t imagine that Cameron wouldnt want to come back here
Would not = Wouldn’t. And Safeco is one of the primary reasons he was underpaid throughout his career.
Not much about your response makes sense
Incorrect!
here’s something to listen to show that Saunders doesnt have a spot locked up
Does not = Doesn’t. Yeah, see, I read this site, and I saw that link the first time it was posted. Yet you apparently seem to be missing some key components. First of all, spending all of our money next year on players that we hope to be relegated to backup duty is a bad idea. By completing your trade, we would have even less money to spend on pitching, and yet again we’d have another player that we play a lot of money for that we’d want to be a bench player because we need Michael Saunders to succeed. Even if we made that trade, which again is speculation you should try to avoid on this site, it would be a stupid trade. We’d be no better off for making the playoffs, we’d have less money, and we’d be spending it on a player that we’d be actively hoping fails, since ideally it’s better for our team in the long run that Saunders takes his job.
At least Adam Moore will still play 2 or 3 days a week like most backup catchers. Cameron would play every day, and Saunders would have no development time.
Everyone here has read your ideas, and if we’re ignoring them, it’s probably because they’re either bad ideas or based on nothing other than your own thoughts on what you want to happen. No one wants Jack Wilson. Jack Wilson blows. And even if we got rid of him, we’d have no shortstop to back him up, and no money to spend on one. I like Mike Cameron. If we could find a way to get him here for no cost, cool. But your ideas are without merit, and your attitude in presenting them is poor.
...and now I'm here
Wow I hope you feel good
You remind of this D bag I know, I hope you arent him because it really would be better for you, one of my friends coined the perfect term…Typing Tough Guys.
Ok, Ok, Im not a part of the red sox office, Im not a part of the mariners office, but neither are you so you definitely shouldnt be a hypocrite saying that they wont absorb some of Cameron’s contract and wouldnt want Jack Wilson when your not a part of the Red Sox office.
I saw something on MLB.com along the lines “Red Sox havent started taking offers for Cameron.” It implied that the Red Sox would start taking offers because of their packed OF, but havent yet. I posted a post because Im a Mariners fan who loved Mike Cameron when he played for us. He was one of my favorite players and after going through a down year filled with injuries and now at the ripe young age of 37, why wouldnt the Red Sox absorb some money or take a possibly useful player in return for him and why wouldnt the Mariners take him for a year. He doesnt have to start full time, but he could be a very useful plug-in for the team to not press Saunders into being a better player right out of the gates and making him earn it over the year (much like Olivo and Moore). He would help a lot more than an older version of Saunders would (without the upside) in Nix. And no matter what you say Jack Wilson doesnt blow completely. Everybody know he blows on offense, even before we traded for him. His skill is defense. Every team can use better defense. Jack Wilson could make a very good utility IF to make spot starts and use in the last couple innings in tight games. I also didnt expect you to come along basically saying everything is wrong and Im doing Rosterbation. Congrats to whoever coined that term, its real creative.
Dude, Cameron got underpaid because teams didnt care a whole lot about defense, and he’s always been one of the best in the league defensively and has been good on offense, but not an elite contract kind of guy offensively, Id actually argue that he got overpaid with the Red Sox because teams have been paying a little bit more for good defense starting since 2009-2010.
Backup catchers usually play once a week, but Im sure since Moore is a guy with a possibly bright future he’ll play 2 or 3 times a week. There’s nothing stopping the Mariners from doing the same with Saunders. Maybe even plug in Cameron to give Guti a break every once a while because sometimes last year he seemed gassed. That would be something you could do with Cameron.
The Mariners arent going to make the playoffs next year, you can forget about that, again the red sox would have to give some money in the trade and 2-3 mil isnt bad for Cameron (we would end up giving the same thing to Nix probably, although Im not a member of the Mariners organization so I wouldnt know). We dont want Cameron to fail either. We want him and Saunders to do great because then we could just flip Cameron at the trade deadline for something somewhat useful and boom, Saunders is the starter.
There is merit for my ideas, Crawford signed with the Red Sox, the starting OF is now Crawford, Ellsbury, and Drew, I dont have to be in their front office to know that. The ideal backup wouldnt be a 7.5 million man, again I can make a list to compare the contracts of other 4th OF and see who comes on top. I would imagine that cameron also wouldnt want to be there if he wouldnt play regularily. MLB.com had a post that implied the Red Sox would begin searching for offers for Cameron. Cameron was loved by Seattle fans and still has some tools to contribute so he would be useful, a lot more than. He would come cheap coming off and injury filled year and in a 4th OF spot. Cameron has one year remaining on his contract, he would leave the team right when all the other overpaid old guys leave the team (or are traded before then) and he’s a lot more useful to the Mariners (do u want me to compare his stats with bradley and wilson’s)?.
I didnt use any apostrophes for the did nots, is nots, etc.. Hope you can still read the words and understand them clearly enough, it’s not to hard is it?
by Cliff Lee Is A Beast on Dec 12, 2010 12:24 AM PST up reply actions
I type like I talk in real life. If that intimidates you, that's your problem.
I don’t have time to write long paragraphs at the moment, so I’m going to instead create a condescending numbered list. Enjoy.
1) Proper grammar and spelling are rules on Lookout Landing. You’re breaking the rules and making your writing less readable by ignoring the apostrophe. If you don’t like it, go away.
2) Making a post about the idea of getting Mike Cameron back is fine. Making ridiculous trade proposals and then angrily arguing those trade proposals as though they have some validity just because you want it to have some is stupid and also not encouraged on this site. It is, or was, in the rules when you signed up.
3) Jack Wilson sucks more than a sexually aggressive Dyson.
4) If we can’t be competitive next year, there is no point in picking up a starter on a one year contract. It literally accomplishes nothing. It stifles Saunders’ development. Yes, Saunder has to fight for his spot. But what if Mike Cameron wins? What does that accomplish if he’s also gone in 2012? Congratulations Mike Cameron, you beat out Saunders for the job – congratulations on staying with this team a few more months before you go! Olivo at least has a two year contract, so if he beats Moore for the job, he can keep it in 2012.
5) I don’t presume to gauge your level of intelligence. What I can tell you is that beyond simply spelling and writing better than you, I also understand statistical analysis better. This: (do u want me to compare his stats with bradley and wilson’s)?. is a stupid comment, and not just because you broke every possible site rule we have with it. First of all, Cameron would be replacing Saunders, not Wilson. How he compares to Wilson is completely irrelevant. Secondly, Bradley is already an overpaid 4th outfielder that can fight Saunders for the spot. We don’t need Cameron also, especially because, as YOU said: “The Mariners arent going to make the playoffs next year.” It doesn’t matter who is pushing Saunders as long as someone is. Voila – Bradley is someone.
Since I recognize I’m really scary what with my big words and correct grammar, I’ll summarize:
Write better, follow the site rules, Cameron is cool, Wanting Cameron is cool, making up unrealistic trade proposals and trying to force other people to care is not cool, trying to pretend like you no more than me won’t work, and Jack Wilson is a terrible baseball player that no one wants.
Should you choose to respond, you should note that I am probably going to reply with a pun based on the Vietnamese restaurants I plan on trying in the future.
...and now I'm here
by CapSea on Dec 12, 2010 2:21 AM PST up reply actions 9 recs
This argument right here is one of the reasons people shouldn't dream up random trades and put them into web form.
by JamMasterJesus on Dec 12, 2010 3:19 AM PST up reply actions
I made more than one spelling error in that post.
Whoopsadoodle.
...and now I'm here
I mean, not just the spelling... but all this over Mike Cameron?
Mike Cameron.
by JamMasterJesus on Dec 12, 2010 3:37 AM PST up reply actions
Hey, it's not like we're talking Jeff Cirillo here
The fanboy in me would love to see Cammy come back (which is a little ironic since I most definitely did not want Junior to come back), so I can see it. Stepping back, I don’t see any way it’s good for the team, so I’m not for it, but I can see the wishful thinking here.
by The Ancient Mariner on Dec 12, 2010 4:48 AM PST up reply actions
Well I've posted a grand total of 2 posts
And I can already say that some people on this website are pretty dang arrogant. You say not to post anything without merit. Well last time I posted something with some merit and then got attacked because it wasn(‘)t something new to one guy (when it was never brought up at all until then, I checked). So please tell, what kind of discussions do you want on this website? I(’)m probably done with this website at this point. There(‘)s a difference between discussion and attacking and I keep getting attacked. I(’)ve never seen the rules for this website and I wasn(‘)t about to believe you and I(’)m a 15 year old. Hope you feel even better.
The same way you say Wilson is crap is the same way that I(‘)m saying Bradley is crap, there’s no way he challenges Saunders for his job from what mariners fans saw him do last year. Cameron will become available because of the Crawford signing and he means a lot more to most fans here than Laynce Nix.
You know I didn(‘)t force other people to care. I wanted you to not simply throw it in the dirt like that. Hey maybe you don’t care, but it(‘)s a lot easier to not post than say everything about this trade is bad. Jack Wilson is a terrible hitter, Nobody wants him as a hitter because he’s one of the worst. But he has elite level defense at SS and would probably be a great fit as a utility IF. I do KnoW more than you, or at least that’s what I think, you know maybe I don(‘)t. There has actually been very few people I have ever met who know more than me about baseball in general and specifically the Mariners (actually now that I think about there may be none among the people I(’)ve met). Do you know of any good Vietnamese restaurants in Seattle? I(‘)ve always been interested in finding some because there aren(’)t any good ones near where I live. Sometimes I just get that craving to go eat some Vietnamese food and there is nowhere to go. I can also understand every single word you write so you don(’)t have to summarize, thanks for the thought though.
You can compare the stats of hitters, because they have the same stats. Maybe you have to take a little away because of position differences and field factors, but they are comparable by using a website like fangraphs, WAR would be an easy stat to compare all of them against each other.
by Cliff Lee Is A Beast on Dec 12, 2010 12:11 PM PST up reply actions
If you step back, relax and take some time to get the feel for the place you will be fine.
As for the rules they are posted on the sidebar on the left of the front page. I very much encourage you to read through them. This is not your typical internet community and higher standards are required here than what you may be used to.
However, you will find that it is also a vibrant and intelligent group of people who you will enjoy conversing with as long as you do not take an immature stance to criticism.
by Sec 108 on Dec 12, 2010 12:31 PM PST up reply actions 1 recs
And please stop with the dropped/added punctuation as emphasis for what you don't like about LL
We get it. You’re annoyed that someone called you out on your writing/grammar. In addition to strong, substantive arguments, this site does place, and always has placed, a premium on properly spelled and punctuated posts. If that doesn’t sit well with you this place may not be your cup of beets – don’t be a smartass about it, we know you don’t agree with it and you’re not helping yourself out by calling attention to it.
Please do read through the rules (it’s only a small paragraph!) and the style guide. Once you do, you’ll know more what we expect and why we police it so much. This is not a chatroom, and it’s not a typical sports message board site – and we all work hard to keep it that way.
CapSea doesn't run this website.
Jeff and I do and I have already admonished you for the punctuation thing. I’m not one for using the stick, but if you want to continue posting here you have to knock off the indignant attitude toward proper grammar.
This post could have been handled better by all involved but you absolutely need to have a tougher skin. You will make no friends here or anywhere in life by curling up into a ball and crying woe is me the moment someone disagrees with you in a fashion that you dislike.
Furthermore, nobody cares how old you are or how many people you’ve met that you believe know less than you about baseball. This isn’t the Seattle Times comment section. I’ll say it again, grow up.
by Matthew on Dec 12, 2010 1:35 PM PST up reply actions 4 recs
It's actually pretty easy to fit in.
We take our rules pretty seriously though.
...and now I'm here
Hey that's really weird. When I get to your punctuation inside the parenthesis my internal voice inserts a hiccup. Every time.
by Kermit. on Dec 12, 2010 7:04 PM PST up reply actions 1 recs
Creepy...
I did the same thing. Or maybe I just did it retroactively and can’t remember it otherwise… Damn you!!
by Ike Clanton on Dec 13, 2010 11:27 AM PST up reply actions
You do not get to intentionally leave out punctuation marks because you feel like it.
This is a place for discourse, not pettiness. Grow up.
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