Navigation: Jump to content areas:


Pro Quality. Fan Perspective.
Login-facebook
Around SBN: Win or Lose, Boston Celtics' New Big 3 Era A Success

OT, Oct. 28 -- "1240+ comments are just too many" edition


You know, the world was a different place around the year 1240 ...

A Novgorodian army led by Alexander Nevsky defeats the Swedes in the Battle of the Neva, and heads off to take on the Teutonic knights and the Hungarians.

Mongols under Batu Khan occupy & destroy Kiev and Krakow, continuing the Golden Horde's hold on what became the Russias.

The Catholic Church went through several popes -- Pope Coelestinus IV and Pope Innocentius IV

The Habsburg dynasty began in a very small way in Swabia.

The Aztec dynasty began to consolidate in the New World.


On the plus side, it would be another 90 years or so before the rats and the dreaded bubos would spread across the East and into Europe.

Comment 1106 comments  |  0 recs  | 

Do you like this story?

Comments

Display:

I'm curious if any former Sonics fans have been rooting for any NBA teams in the last two years or have any plans to do so.

I remember before the Sonics left the question was “Will you root for the Thunder, the Blazers, or Nobody?”

So far for me its been “Nobody” but I’m considering giving the Clippers a go. They aren’t good, so I’ll be used to that, Staples Center is only a few miles away, and the Lakers can go fuck themselves.

Anybody have a team in the NBA anymore?

by Kenneth Arthur on Oct 28, 2010 8:03 AM PDT reply actions  

The demise of the Sonics drove me to FreeDarko, and the concept of liberated fandom

Now I have a strong urge to find Turkish Allen Iverson highlights. I also like Brandon Roy of the Blazers, but most of his teammates are boring. It’s also fun to watch Rondo and Allen on the Celtics.

by yuniform on Oct 28, 2010 8:40 AM PDT up reply actions  

It hurts me so much to every time I see a mention of him

usually fantasy stuff saying he’s the best player to pick or whatever, which means he’s probably pretty damn good.

To improve, they should try to become the musical southern cal of the west. - bRuins Nation poster on the Stanford band.

by bluemax on Oct 28, 2010 9:22 AM PDT up reply actions  

I hated the NBA before they left.

With them gone I haven’t even thought about the NBA except for when I see ads.

by Sec 108 on Oct 28, 2010 8:47 AM PDT up reply actions  

This is exactly me, as well.

I cannot stand the NBA and have felt that way for a very long time!

by seattlesundevil on Oct 28, 2010 9:23 AM PDT up reply actions  

And me as well.

I’ve been done for about ten years. Right around the time people started strangling their coaches and generally acting waaay more douchey than normal.

I sometimes find myself engaged in combat with hobos.

by kevin_ess on Oct 28, 2010 9:43 PM PDT up reply actions  

Nope. I can't wait for that league to fold.

My interest in the NBA started dwindling in the early 2000’s anyway.

by Scruffy Lefty on Oct 28, 2010 8:50 AM PDT up reply actions  

And if there was a team it would be the Zombie Sonics only for the players.

And if they win it all I still think Seattle should have a parade celebrating the Sonics championship win. With a Banner hanging and everything.

by Scruffy Lefty on Oct 28, 2010 8:51 AM PDT up reply actions  

I was watching the King 5 news the other night

and the sports anchor was going through the OKC highlights. He didn’t even try to hide his distaste, mentioning “oil tycoon” Clay Bennett and “Bennett’s evil partner David Stern” during the clips. I loved it!

by schismatix on Oct 28, 2010 1:24 PM PDT up reply actions  

They had sports highlights on the local news?

I’m amazed!

"There! I just sold you for a cigarette! And I don't smoke!"

by Thingray on Oct 28, 2010 1:33 PM PDT up reply actions  

I think it was just a formality.

I’m not sure they actually mentioned anything related to Seattle.

by schismatix on Oct 28, 2010 1:54 PM PDT up reply actions  

I'm not and never have been a huge basketball fan

but I sincerely hope that the NBA first contracts a few teams and then implodes. The hubris of that league was worse at its peak than almost any other sports league, and now they’re going to have to figure out how to pay for it. Can’t wait.

by pdb on Oct 28, 2010 9:18 AM PDT up reply actions  

Seriously I'm in the camp of people who wants the league to fail

The fact that they’re thinking about contracting and or cutting salaries because their owners are too stupid to stop giving the Rafer Alstons of the world max deals every summer.

To improve, they should try to become the musical southern cal of the west. - bRuins Nation poster on the Stanford band.

by bluemax on Oct 28, 2010 9:23 AM PDT up reply actions  

The NBA needs to shut down like hockey and re-evaluate itself.

But Stern is to much of an egomaniac to admit anything is wrong. I wish I could kick that little midget off a building.

"There! I just sold you for a cigarette! And I don't smoke!"

by Thingray on Oct 28, 2010 10:25 AM PDT up reply actions  

I went to a Clippers game once

it was one of the most sad, mournful, dull sporting events I’ve ever gone too.

Having known a few lifelong Clippers fans, its not an existence I would willing participate in.

The NBA can get fucked.

To improve, they should try to become the musical southern cal of the west. - bRuins Nation poster on the Stanford band.

by bluemax on Oct 28, 2010 9:21 AM PDT up reply actions  

Nope.

I was one of the biggest NBA fans left in Seattle in 2008. I followed the Sonics religiously, discussed them online just as avidly as this community discusses baseball, I analyzed each draft very closely, and was nearly as much a fan of the league as I was of the Sonics. I was at least partially defined by my passion for the Sonics and for professional basketball as a whole.

When the Sonics left, the switch flipped. As much as I liked basketball in the general sense, I quickly realized that the Sonics were the straw that stirred the drink of my basketball fandom and all interest and passion for the game is gone. I’m not really even particularly mad – I just can’t be bothered to care. There’s too many other compelling things to do in life than to follow a league that so overtly doesn’t care about having me as a fan.

I think the experiment in Miami is intellectually interesting, but I can’t work up anything more than the desire to check the headlines on how it’s going.

by Chris Hafner on Oct 28, 2010 10:11 AM PDT up reply actions  

The weird thing is that my lack of interest in the NBA is not retroactive.

I’m still interested in the NBA prior to 2008; if I rewatch old games I find myself still loving the flow of the game, and thinking about player styles, what plays are being called, and getting into the strategy of the game. I’d still happily noodle through old NBA stats or look at old drafts, or argue about the relative merits of different players and teams.

But for me it’s as if the whole league closed its doors when the Sonics left.

by Chris Hafner on Oct 28, 2010 10:26 AM PDT up reply actions  

The NBA barely exists to me anymore.

I might pay a tiny bit of attention on the playoffs, or be interested in what some local players are up to, but as far as following the league, I’m out. They fucked us over, they knew it, and they didn’t care.

"There! I just sold you for a cigarette! And I don't smoke!"

by Thingray on Oct 28, 2010 10:17 AM PDT up reply actions  

Was it the Bulls and Celtics a couple years ago

playing a best-of-7 with something like 8 overtimes in the series? That was fun to watch.

Charter Member: Dave Sims Sweet Hat Club // Career .384 BA, .543 OBP for Rocky Diablos

by Two Rs and Two Ls on Oct 28, 2010 12:40 PM PDT up reply actions  

Loathsome is a pretty strong word - what is it about the NBA that drives you to loathing?

I have a bunch of friends who grew to dislike the NBA in the 2000s after being big fans in the 1990s, and they usually cited things like the Sonics decline, perceived selfishness of play, increased defensive efficiency/thuggery, flopping, and the retirement of a class of beloved players and their replacement by a group of ball-hogging individualists.

Are those the primary factors for you, or was it something different? Just for the record, I felt like the NBA was actually on a bit of an upswing when the veil fell in 2008.

by Chris Hafner on Oct 28, 2010 1:33 PM PDT up reply actions  

Me too kind of

the NBA was actually kind of getting interesting and Durant looked like he was gonna be awesome and we seemed to have a smart front office and then POOF

To improve, they should try to become the musical southern cal of the west. - bRuins Nation poster on the Stanford band.

by bluemax on Oct 28, 2010 1:43 PM PDT up reply actions  

What's weird is that even though the Sonics/NBA were a huge part of my life, I don't really pine for it.

I’ve filled the gap with USSM, LL, craft beer, and lots of time-consuming hobbies, and life has been just fine. I think that should be the scariest idea of all for the NBA or another sports league – the risk that people could just lift up their heads one day and realize that life can be rich and fulfilling without pouring time and money into following a team or a league.

by Chris Hafner on Oct 28, 2010 1:49 PM PDT up reply actions  

This is pretty close to me and baseball.

It's hard to convince people to let you eat them if you're an asshole. - Thingray

by Faux on Oct 28, 2010 1:50 PM PDT up reply actions  

Well, except for the beer part I suppose.

It's hard to convince people to let you eat them if you're an asshole. - Thingray

by Faux on Oct 28, 2010 1:50 PM PDT up reply actions  

Many of the reasons you cite are exactly why I'm down on professional basketball.

I will admit, I am no fan of basketball as a sport to start with so the NBA already started in the negatives for me, but I found I could stomach watching college ball a lot more than any NBA games. That, and their playoffs last a million years, completely draining the drama out of it, makes the sport completely unwatchable. Which is weird, because other events that last a significant amount of time (March Madness, World Cup) don’t bother me at all. The fact that NBA and the media tends to feed off the egomania of its athletes rankles me as well. Admittedly, any professional sport is going to have its fair share of self important douches, but even in the bad days of Roger Clemens annual retirement from retirement, there wasn’t an hour long special on which team he’d sign with. God!

Dawg! He put da team on his back!

by JAH on Oct 28, 2010 1:47 PM PDT up reply actions  

The fact that an NBA official actually was fixing games and it wasn't a big surprise

makes it nearly impossible for me to take the league seriously.

I haven’t been a fan since game 7 of the Suns/Sonics series in the early 90’s. My dad would take us to a couple games a year and we went to a few playoff games, but our entire family stopped following the NBA after that game.

by Jed MC on Oct 28, 2010 2:30 PM PDT up reply actions  

I was never really a fan of basketball anyways. It doesn't really seem to get exciting until the last moments

and there’s a huge percentage of games that end in blowouts that never get exciting. That said, I still was happy when the Sonics did well and was angry as everyone else when they moved to OKC. And who knows, if they had stayed I may have eventually enjoyed the game much like how I went from being a casual Seahawks fan to a diehard football fan. But I’m not going to cheer for a team in another city because it’s just not the same. And I know that Seattle will never get another team while that evil, corrupt midget is gone as commissioner. I do enjoy watching college basketball though. Shrugs

by Coach Owens on Oct 29, 2010 8:38 AM PDT up reply actions  

It was already voted on I think

To improve, they should try to become the musical southern cal of the west. - bRuins Nation poster on the Stanford band.

by bluemax on Oct 28, 2010 9:41 AM PDT up reply actions  

Yep

Voted in late September, announced mid-November.

by pdb on Oct 28, 2010 9:48 AM PDT up reply actions  

Which would imply:

- Anyone that talks about how this changes their vote is just talking shit.
- The last start(s) of the season probably did sway people’s opinions since it was the last thing they saw before they voted.

...and now I'm here

by CapSea on Oct 28, 2010 1:46 PM PDT up reply actions  

The votes have to be in before the playoffs start.

So they can’t be changed due to one player propelling his team to/through the World Series.

by ToddK on Oct 28, 2010 2:20 PM PDT up reply actions  

Have any of you ever driven to Guatemala?

Is it a reasonably easy drive?

Determined, Jonesing Commentor

by Corco on Oct 28, 2010 9:14 AM PDT reply actions  

I have never done this

but from everything I have read and understand, driving through Mexico is taking your life into your hands and is not something that should be attempted alone. Lots of militias, roadblocks, and “toll roads” where you get robbed in order to be allowed to pass. I would really think twice about doing it, especially by yourself.

by pdb on Oct 28, 2010 9:19 AM PDT up reply actions  

It was many years ago but I had some friends drive down to Costa Rica.

They left their RV there and flew back because of how scary every single border crossing was. They were lucky to make it there with any money, belongings or a vehicle.

by Sec 108 on Oct 28, 2010 9:22 AM PDT up reply actions  

That's definitely my concern

The route would be mostly down the east coast of Mexico which I think is a little bit safer and from Brownsville to Guatemala I can do in probably 2.5 days

I may be moving to Guatemala for 8 months or so here in January and will need a private car to do work once I get down there, which is why I’m contemplating driving. Maybe easier just to buy one down there and then try to re-sell it

Determined, Jonesing Commentor

by Corco on Oct 28, 2010 9:25 AM PDT up reply actions  

I'm guessing the latter.

I bet there are a lot of cheap cars available.

by msb on Oct 28, 2010 9:26 AM PDT up reply actions  

I would definitely do that.

Mexico is being torn apart by drug wars right now and there are dozens of people being killed every day. That alone makes it worth flying over and not driving through, and that’s just Mexico.

by pdb on Oct 28, 2010 9:27 AM PDT up reply actions  

I think you're right

Such a shame, too. That would be such a neat experience.

Determined, Jonesing Commentor

by Corco on Oct 28, 2010 9:42 AM PDT up reply actions  

I was going to do it in this

I wouldn’t try it in my Jeep Liberty

Determined, Jonesing Commentor

by Corco on Oct 28, 2010 3:08 PM PDT up reply actions  

And maybe a mirror and a headlight.

Bust out a window and put plastic over it too.

"There! I just sold you for a cigarette! And I don't smoke!"

by Thingray on Oct 28, 2010 3:22 PM PDT up reply actions   1 recs

Do it in the Jeep...

but take a bunch of other dudes with you, dress in fatigues, grow beards, and smoke cigars whenever you run the risk of running into anyone.

"Ever tried? Ever failed? No matter. Try again. Fail again. Fail better." - Samuel Beckett Mariners Minors

by JY on Oct 28, 2010 4:09 PM PDT up reply actions  

What, is he driving to Cuba?

Hope that thing has a snorkel!

"There! I just sold you for a cigarette! And I don't smoke!"

by Thingray on Oct 28, 2010 4:10 PM PDT up reply actions  

This is roughly the extent of what I know of the political climate there.

"Ever tried? Ever failed? No matter. Try again. Fail again. Fail better." - Samuel Beckett Mariners Minors

by JY on Oct 28, 2010 4:19 PM PDT up reply actions  

Yeah but if the Jeep gets so much as a tiny parking lot ding I freak out

I don’t want to have a car I care about in Guatemala where people don’t worry about those sorts of things for 8 months >:(

Determined, Jonesing Commentor

by Corco on Oct 28, 2010 4:24 PM PDT up reply actions  

Plus I wax it obsessively so despite that it's 8 years old, it looks like a brand new car

and the Liberty is not a particularly manly looking vehicle

I’d just look like (and probably actually be) a douchebag begging to be robbed in that car

Determined, Jonesing Commentor

by Corco on Oct 28, 2010 4:26 PM PDT up reply actions  

Moped.

"There! I just sold you for a cigarette! And I don't smoke!"

by Thingray on Oct 28, 2010 4:26 PM PDT up reply actions  

Probably a true scooter would be better,

but they both would work (and be cheap).

"There! I just sold you for a cigarette! And I don't smoke!"

by Thingray on Oct 28, 2010 4:54 PM PDT up reply actions  

From what precisely two people have told me about driving around in Mexico

They both said Chevy LUV’s are all over the place down there so parts are available. But they were both dorking around in the desert.

by Kermit. on Oct 28, 2010 9:57 PM PDT up reply actions  

Did you see his tweets?

This was a preventable death.

To improve, they should try to become the musical southern cal of the west. - bRuins Nation poster on the Stanford band.

by bluemax on Oct 28, 2010 9:24 AM PDT up reply actions  

Hey now...

"There! I just sold you for a cigarette! And I don't smoke!"

by Thingray on Oct 28, 2010 3:12 PM PDT up reply actions  

The actual video of that is awesome

It was some kind of press conference and the guy is trying to carry on while that thing is buzzing all around the room before the security guy stepped up to be a hero

by tootthekazoo on Oct 28, 2010 9:37 AM PDT up reply actions  

What the devil is it?

Some kind of remote controlled handgun-copter?

"Ever tried? Ever failed? No matter. Try again. Fail again. Fail better." - Samuel Beckett Mariners Minors

by JY on Oct 28, 2010 9:42 AM PDT up reply actions  

Even better!

"Ever tried? Ever failed? No matter. Try again. Fail again. Fail better." - Samuel Beckett Mariners Minors

by JY on Oct 28, 2010 9:47 AM PDT up reply actions  

That's what it is

Guy rigged an RC helicopter with a big floppy rubber dong and flew it around the room. As I said, the actual video of the event is hilarious

by tootthekazoo on Oct 28, 2010 9:48 AM PDT up reply actions  

If we are going to be posting .gifs of dildos can we please get a NSFW warning?

Seriously people, I really don’t want to get fired for something like this.

by Aaron Campeau on Oct 28, 2010 9:52 AM PDT up reply actions  

I meant to ask this

I assumed the fact that it was linked and not embedded was a warning.

To improve, they should try to become the musical southern cal of the west. - bRuins Nation poster on the Stanford band.

by bluemax on Oct 28, 2010 9:56 AM PDT up reply actions  

Also consider the source.

"Ever tried? Ever failed? No matter. Try again. Fail again. Fail better." - Samuel Beckett Mariners Minors

by JY on Oct 28, 2010 9:59 AM PDT up reply actions  

It slipped my mind.

Though at least I didn’t embed it. But it does kind of look like a handgun.

by Scruffy Lefty on Oct 28, 2010 10:03 AM PDT up reply actions  

I'm struggling to come up with a reason not to.

"Ever tried? Ever failed? No matter. Try again. Fail again. Fail better." - Samuel Beckett Mariners Minors

by JY on Oct 28, 2010 4:09 PM PDT up reply actions   8 recs

Now that I think about it, you may be right.

Although you wouldn’t want to get it tangled in Wedge’s awesome moustache.

"There! I just sold you for a cigarette! And I don't smoke!"

by Thingray on Oct 28, 2010 4:11 PM PDT up reply actions  

Farnsworth!

Your BMO team is about to go into administration! You have to the end of today to reclaim them or you will be replace.

by Robert on Oct 28, 2010 9:50 AM PDT reply actions  

Does anybody know how to add online streams to iTunes?

I am getting tired of having to go to each individual site to open a player and it would be nice to be able to do it straight from iTunes.

by Robert on Oct 28, 2010 10:44 AM PDT reply actions  

What stream?

I know for both KEXP and NPR I have the choice on their sites how I want to open a stream, and I can choose iTunes or something else.

by pdb on Oct 28, 2010 10:45 AM PDT up reply actions  

I need an outside opinion.

We have a cat who keeps peeing on the carpet. She’s a young cat (about 4 or 5), but knows exactly how to use the litter box. She just chooses to pee on the floor. We haven’t added any new pets or additions to the house, so there’s no reason for her to “mark”, and she’s already fixed.

I’m not having my house reek like cat pee, so I’ve been looking to get rid of her. She’s a loving cat, and other than the peeing she’s well behaved.

So a friend of mine and his wife have agreed to take her, but they don’t know about the peeing. Do I tell them, or just hope that she does better as the only cat in their house (where with us she’s one of three)?

"There! I just sold you for a cigarette! And I don't smoke!"

by Thingray on Oct 28, 2010 11:11 AM PDT reply actions  

Tell them.

But cats don’t do that for no reason, so there’s something going on. She probably needs to get checked out by a vet.

by Aaron Campeau on Oct 28, 2010 11:14 AM PDT up reply actions  

It might be a UTI

Make sure the box is really clean— some cats are very picky about the box.

it is also a good thing to try to eliminate the smell from the area she has marked with a neutralizer, so it isn’t as attractive as a pee spot

by msb on Oct 28, 2010 11:19 AM PDT up reply actions  

We've neutralized everywhere she's peed, even to the point of doing the whole black light thing to check for spots.

We have four cat boxes for three cats, and they are cleaned every other day. She’s been to the vet recently for a checkup and they didn’t find anything wrong with her.

I’m curious if it’s something to do with moving into a new house, but we moved in May, and she just started this in late August. Either way, we already agreed to give her to our friends. My main thing is trying to figure out how much “info” to give them.

"There! I just sold you for a cigarette! And I don't smoke!"

by Thingray on Oct 28, 2010 11:28 AM PDT up reply actions  

Maybe remind them cats can pee inappropriately in new situations and/or when stressed

it may be that when she gets on her own she is better.

perhaps something changed in the cat dynamics after the move— one of the reasons that I ended up with one of my former cats was that its elder siblings (from an earlier litter) kept beating him up when their situation changed.

by msb on Oct 28, 2010 11:34 AM PDT up reply actions  

That's what I'm wondering.

Maybe after a few months in the new house, they’re trying to stake out their “territories”, and this is her way of doing it.

"There! I just sold you for a cigarette! And I don't smoke!"

by Thingray on Oct 28, 2010 11:37 AM PDT up reply actions  

That's what the other two do.

But we know it’s her peeing, because we’ve caught her in doing it in her “spots” on multiple occasions.

"There! I just sold you for a cigarette! And I don't smoke!"

by Thingray on Oct 28, 2010 11:41 AM PDT up reply actions  

That is what we think.

She LOVES attention, and I don’t think being one of three is necessarily the best thing for her. Our friend’s wife ADORES this cat, so it might be the perfect situation.

"There! I just sold you for a cigarette! And I don't smoke!"

by Thingray on Oct 28, 2010 11:49 AM PDT up reply actions  

I'm with Aaron

Tell them, if you are getting rid of the cat, but definitely get the cat checked out first.

by pdb on Oct 28, 2010 11:16 AM PDT up reply actions  

As I said in my other post, the cat has a clean bill of health from the vet...

But I think you’re right, we should probably tell them. But I REALLY want them to take this cat. She’s nice and all, but three is too many, and we never wanted her in the first place (which sounds horrible).

Long story short: Wife’s grandma wants kitten, wife buys grandma kitten. Grandma figures out three days later that kitten+grandma probably equals broken hip. Kitten comes to live with us.

"There! I just sold you for a cigarette! And I don't smoke!"

by Thingray on Oct 28, 2010 11:34 AM PDT up reply actions  

BELIEVE ME.

I was not involved in this decision!

"There! I just sold you for a cigarette! And I don't smoke!"

by Thingray on Oct 28, 2010 11:38 AM PDT up reply actions  

Interesting read....

I can rule out most of those issues, except for another cat attacking her while she was in the litter box (making her afraid of it), but she’s pretty aggressive towards the other cats, so who knows…

"There! I just sold you for a cigarette! And I don't smoke!"

by Thingray on Oct 28, 2010 11:31 AM PDT up reply actions  

Ah, marking.

I had an older fellow who did that, but thank goodness nothing ever came out from the tail flourishes,

by msb on Oct 28, 2010 11:36 AM PDT up reply actions  

I have a cat question as well.

The cat at my house (I won’t call it mine because I hate the damn thing) is constantly attacking things, running into walls, and in general being a bitch. If I had to put a word to it I’d say she was bored. She doesn’t react well to new anything (read: goes batshit insane), but I’m considering getting another cat just on the hope that it’ll give her something to play with when myself and the LISO are gone (which is considerable 3-4 out of 7 days of the week).

Thoughts?

It's hard to convince people to let you eat them if you're an asshole. - Thingray

by Faux on Oct 28, 2010 11:53 AM PDT up reply actions  

That might very well be a good idea.

Just make sure to introduce the new one gradually.

by Aaron Campeau on Oct 28, 2010 11:58 AM PDT up reply actions  

Is there a good way to do this?

I was thinking about quarantining the new one in the office and letting them get to know each other through the 3/4" gap under the door.

It's hard to convince people to let you eat them if you're an asshole. - Thingray

by Faux on Oct 28, 2010 12:02 PM PDT up reply actions  

The new one might get paranoid about being locked in places then...

"Ever tried? Ever failed? No matter. Try again. Fail again. Fail better." - Samuel Beckett Mariners Minors

by JY on Oct 28, 2010 12:03 PM PDT up reply actions  

It's a rather large room, 10x20, with a bathroom and a bunch of windows.

Neither one is going to be an outside cat anyways.

It's hard to convince people to let you eat them if you're an asshole. - Thingray

by Faux on Oct 28, 2010 12:04 PM PDT up reply actions  

That may work out better then.

There’s enough to make it seem like it isn’t “trapped”.

"Ever tried? Ever failed? No matter. Try again. Fail again. Fail better." - Samuel Beckett Mariners Minors

by JY on Oct 28, 2010 12:05 PM PDT up reply actions  

It's tricky.

You want them both to feel “safe”, but you also need them to get used to each other as soon as possible. If one of them thinks there is a predator on the other side of the door, you’ll be in trouble. If they’re both fairly young, it shouldn’t be too much trouble though.

"There! I just sold you for a cigarette! And I don't smoke!"

by Thingray on Oct 28, 2010 12:06 PM PDT up reply actions  

At 18 months, that should make it easier.

It would be much harder with an eight year old cat or something like that. But you just never know. Our cats all came in at different ages, and for the MOST part, they get along just fine. They wrestle and fight, but they can also all lay on the couch together and not have WWIII.

"There! I just sold you for a cigarette! And I don't smoke!"

by Thingray on Oct 28, 2010 12:14 PM PDT up reply actions  

That's what we did when we got our second cat

and it worked great. Leave the new kitty in the office overnight, with its own litter box and food/water/toys, and by the next day the existing kitty will know the smell of the new one and mostly just be curious.

by pdb on Oct 28, 2010 12:23 PM PDT up reply actions  

It's hard to tell with these things.

When my brother was younger they got him this Siamese kitten for a pet. The problem is that the kitten was not so much good with children and responded to most attempts to get up in his grill with a stern claw to the face. So they decided to get another kitten for him a couple years later and try to get rid of the Siamese, but in the interim, the Siamese bullied the other kitten until it became so skittish that it turned into a ghost presence in the household.

Dogs, I think you can do that more easily, but cats are trickier to figure out in that regard. You may end up with two cats that are very different kinds of batshit.

"Ever tried? Ever failed? No matter. Try again. Fail again. Fail better." - Samuel Beckett Mariners Minors

by JY on Oct 28, 2010 12:02 PM PDT up reply actions  

To be fair, all cats are batshit crazy.

"There! I just sold you for a cigarette! And I don't smoke!"

by Thingray on Oct 28, 2010 12:07 PM PDT up reply actions  

Some more endearingly so than others.

"Ever tried? Ever failed? No matter. Try again. Fail again. Fail better." - Samuel Beckett Mariners Minors

by JY on Oct 28, 2010 12:10 PM PDT up reply actions  

Very true.

"There! I just sold you for a cigarette! And I don't smoke!"

by Thingray on Oct 28, 2010 12:14 PM PDT up reply actions  

Obvious question

But have you tried changing the cat litter you use? I’ve heard of cats doing that just because they suddenly decided they hate their litter- sometimes you have to try several different types before you find one that works

Determined, Jonesing Commentor

by Corco on Oct 28, 2010 12:28 PM PDT up reply actions  

No...

The risk there is the other two cats. I change litter, then the other two cats are “pissed off” and now I have three little urine fountains? No thanks!

"There! I just sold you for a cigarette! And I don't smoke!"

by Thingray on Oct 28, 2010 12:29 PM PDT up reply actions  

Fair enough

\

Determined, Jonesing Commentor

by Corco on Oct 28, 2010 12:31 PM PDT up reply actions  

You're right about the litter though,

I’ve heard about cats just suddenly deciding they hate their current brand. I’ve heard this with food too.

"There! I just sold you for a cigarette! And I don't smoke!"

by Thingray on Oct 28, 2010 12:36 PM PDT up reply actions  

See if letting her outside when she looks like she has to go.

Unless she won’t come back of course.

I know that most of my cats refuse to go to the bathroom in the litterbox because they’re used to going to the bathroom outside.

by Coach Owens on Oct 29, 2010 8:48 AM PDT up reply actions  

I missed a good OT because I got stuck with no WIFI and crappy service for tethering.

But JY, I was actually not in NJ for the last week, and Newark is a great place to go have dinner and see a hockey game, or hell just to go to a Portuguese restaurant/grocery in Ironbound.

It's hard to convince people to let you eat them if you're an asshole. - Thingray

by Faux on Oct 28, 2010 11:57 AM PDT reply actions  

I have only seen what seem to be depressing parts of Newark.

But it’s good to hear that you managed to get out.

"Ever tried? Ever failed? No matter. Try again. Fail again. Fail better." - Samuel Beckett Mariners Minors

by JY on Oct 28, 2010 12:04 PM PDT up reply actions  

It was to a casino (ugh).

I spent all weekend busting my ass at Chinook Winds.

It's hard to convince people to let you eat them if you're an asshole. - Thingray

by Faux on Oct 28, 2010 12:06 PM PDT up reply actions  

But hey, Burgerville and Maple Donuts!

It's hard to convince people to let you eat them if you're an asshole. - Thingray

by Faux on Oct 28, 2010 12:09 PM PDT up reply actions  

The only Burgerville I know of is in North Vancouver...

Where is Chinook Winds?

"There! I just sold you for a cigarette! And I don't smoke!"

by Thingray on Oct 28, 2010 3:29 PM PDT up reply actions  

Lincoln City, stopped by on the way through Newberg.

It's hard to convince people to let you eat them if you're an asshole. - Thingray

by Faux on Oct 28, 2010 6:41 PM PDT up reply actions  

I just watched the 30 for 30 about Fernandomania

and it really made me remember why I thought baseball was awesome when I was 12. I forgot how fantastic of a pitcher he was and it was fun to watch him dominate again.

by pdb on Oct 28, 2010 12:27 PM PDT reply actions  

Dangit,

I wanted to watch that the other night, but I missed it. I should DVR it.

"There! I just sold you for a cigarette! And I don't smoke!"

by Thingray on Oct 28, 2010 12:29 PM PDT up reply actions  

Was going to look for it tonight,

but now I have a friend coming over to borrow last minute Halloween decorations. Seems a little late for a party tomorrow night, but okay…

"There! I just sold you for a cigarette! And I don't smoke!"

by Thingray on Oct 28, 2010 3:26 PM PDT up reply actions  

Here's something fun related to baseball

that I’m sure everyone is seeing through twitter. Best baseball players by birthday.

I can’t believe this guy is the best baseball player born on my birthday.

by Jed MC on Oct 28, 2010 3:22 PM PDT reply actions  

I'm happy with mine.

"There! I just sold you for a cigarette! And I don't smoke!"

by Thingray on Oct 28, 2010 3:23 PM PDT up reply actions  

Besides, as much as he sucked here,

Ol’ Jeffie had some pretty good years.

"There! I just sold you for a cigarette! And I don't smoke!"

by Thingray on Oct 28, 2010 3:28 PM PDT up reply actions  

Ick

Zobrist and Travis Lee are 4th and 5th on mine.

by Scruffy Lefty on Oct 28, 2010 3:34 PM PDT up reply actions  

Mordecai "3 Finger Brown"

and former Mariners Tim Belcher!

To improve, they should try to become the musical southern cal of the west. - bRuins Nation poster on the Stanford band.

by bluemax on Oct 28, 2010 3:35 PM PDT up reply actions  

Roger Connor and John Clarkson.

Who? They have a combined WAR of 160, but I’ve never heard of either of them.

by Phil Hatzenbuehler on Oct 28, 2010 3:35 PM PDT up reply actions  

Hey, look at that.

Roger Connor was the guy Babe Ruth surpassed to be the home run king.

by Phil Hatzenbuehler on Oct 28, 2010 3:38 PM PDT up reply actions  

I'm sure they don't include fielding stats.

But if they just figure in offensive numbers, sure, why not?

by Phil Hatzenbuehler on Oct 28, 2010 3:43 PM PDT up reply actions  

Okay, never mind, this chart uses Rally's WAR database

which includes Total Zone. Evidently Roger Connor was quite the fielder in his day.

by Phil Hatzenbuehler on Oct 28, 2010 3:45 PM PDT up reply actions  

I don't trust stats from that far back very much.

Too many question marks around them.

"There! I just sold you for a cigarette! And I don't smoke!"

by Thingray on Oct 28, 2010 3:47 PM PDT up reply actions  

Heh.

Combined WAR for ALL 5 on my b-day is 123.9. It’s a pretty shitty birthday for ball players.

by ToddK on Oct 28, 2010 4:46 PM PDT up reply actions  

Huh.

Terrence Long was born on 2/29. He’s a leapling.

by Phil Hatzenbuehler on Oct 28, 2010 3:37 PM PDT up reply actions  

Look at you slugger boy!

"There! I just sold you for a cigarette! And I don't smoke!"

by Thingray on Oct 28, 2010 3:38 PM PDT up reply actions  

That is 3 days after me

I got Bartolo Colon and Brad Penny

…they should send down Huntington & Nutting, because they aren’t ready, either. - royshowell

by Marinerfanjake on Oct 28, 2010 5:30 PM PDT up reply actions  

I wonder which month has the best WAR?

Then you could determine the best month to conceive!

To improve, they should try to become the musical southern cal of the west. - bRuins Nation poster on the Stanford band.

by bluemax on Oct 28, 2010 3:51 PM PDT up reply actions  

Every month is at least good for practice.

"There! I just sold you for a cigarette! And I don't smoke!"

by Thingray on Oct 28, 2010 4:08 PM PDT up reply actions  

I lose!

46.3 – Luis Gonzalez
44.9 – Ed Konetchy
38.1 – Eddie Stanky
26.9 – George Stone
13.7 – Tom Brewer

by d0nkey on Oct 28, 2010 3:59 PM PDT up reply actions  

Brewer, Stanky and Stone.

Sounds like nicknames from a bunch of college buddies.

"There! I just sold you for a cigarette! And I don't smoke!"

by Thingray on Oct 28, 2010 4:09 PM PDT up reply actions  

Hall of Famer Joe Gordon.

Better than Joe Morgan.

After that it’s John Valentin, Kevin Tapani, George Mogridge, and John Mayberry. There are worse days it seems.

"Ever tried? Ever failed? No matter. Try again. Fail again. Fail better." - Samuel Beckett Mariners Minors

by JY on Oct 28, 2010 4:16 PM PDT up reply actions  

I don't even need to look mine up.

David Wright. Same day, same year. We are twin brothers.

by Kenneth Arthur on Oct 28, 2010 4:22 PM PDT up reply actions  

Bob Feller!

Followed closely by Jim McCormick and Dwight Evans.

by Mariner John on Oct 28, 2010 5:37 PM PDT up reply actions  

Terry Turner, 30.2 WAR

Fangraphs tells me he played in 1901. Pretty meagre crop on my birthday.

by Eyeball Kid on Oct 28, 2010 5:50 PM PDT up reply actions  

Tom Tresh!

No matter where you go, there you are.

by KC Mariner on Oct 29, 2010 11:28 AM PDT up reply actions  

Roundabout beer topic!

Strangest successful method you’ve used to get a beer bottle open? I just used fingernail clippers.

"Ever tried? Ever failed? No matter. Try again. Fail again. Fail better." - Samuel Beckett Mariners Minors

by JY on Oct 28, 2010 6:58 PM PDT reply actions  

My brother uses his cell phone.

I’ve opened a bottle with a credit card before.

by ThomasG on Oct 28, 2010 7:52 PM PDT up reply actions  

I'm not sure how either of these methods would work.

"Ever tried? Ever failed? No matter. Try again. Fail again. Fail better." - Samuel Beckett Mariners Minors

by JY on Oct 28, 2010 8:10 PM PDT up reply actions  

Christ almighty I can't post tonight.

What I meant to add was, as long as you let your hand do most of the work, all you need is a somewhat straight and rigid edge and you can open a beer bottle.

by ThomasG on Oct 28, 2010 8:28 PM PDT up reply actions  

Some belts have bottle openers built in

Mine doesn’t but I have used it as one anyway. And I have been successful a couple times opening beers with other beers. I would like to become better at opening beers without bottle openers; this seems like a worthwhile endeavor to me.

by RunningFool on Oct 28, 2010 9:47 PM PDT up reply actions  

I just keep a bottle opener on my key chain.

But in a pinch an actual key will work, especially one without the rubber coating on the wider end.

"There! I just sold you for a cigarette! And I don't smoke!"

by Thingray on Oct 29, 2010 10:56 AM PDT up reply actions  

Dog collar.

Dawg! He put da team on his back!

by JAH on Oct 28, 2010 9:57 PM PDT up reply actions  

When I was in Kopenhagen, I was leaving the hotel with a beer that I was planning to drink while walking around town.

I hadn’t brought my keys with me on this trip so I didn’t have my bottle openers on me so I went to the front desk and asked the girl that worked there if she had a bottle opener. Her reply was “I don’t need a bottle opener, I’m Danish” then quickly opened my bottle with a highlighter pen. I thought long and hard about proposing to her on the spot.

by Robert on Oct 28, 2010 11:48 PM PDT up reply actions   1 recs

I was reading about that method but I couldn't get the directions to make sense in my head.

I’m really bad at that sort of thing.

"Ever tried? Ever failed? No matter. Try again. Fail again. Fail better." - Samuel Beckett Mariners Minors

by JY on Oct 29, 2010 10:10 AM PDT up reply actions  

Grip it like you're drinking it, then insert lighter between cap and forefinger and pry open

The trick is to pop it open quickly. If you try to force it open slowly you’ll just break the lighter

by d0nkey on Oct 29, 2010 10:12 AM PDT up reply actions  

I was trying, but maybe I just have shitty lighters, I don't know.

"Ever tried? Ever failed? No matter. Try again. Fail again. Fail better." - Samuel Beckett Mariners Minors

by JY on Oct 29, 2010 10:15 AM PDT up reply actions  

I suck at it as well.

Numerous people have tried to show me but I just suck.

by Scruffy Lefty on Oct 29, 2010 10:18 AM PDT up reply actions  

I've never accomplished this and managed to look cool doing it.

It’s why I always carry a bottle opener.

"There! I just sold you for a cigarette! And I don't smoke!"

by Thingray on Oct 29, 2010 11:18 AM PDT up reply actions  

We dig that about you.

Especially in hobo fights.

"There! I just sold you for a cigarette! And I don't smoke!"

by Thingray on Oct 29, 2010 11:56 AM PDT up reply actions  

Hobo fights?

Well now we need Ess’ input.

"Ever tried? Ever failed? No matter. Try again. Fail again. Fail better." - Samuel Beckett Mariners Minors

by JY on Oct 29, 2010 12:15 PM PDT up reply actions  

He's got a great right jab, but his footwork is lacking.

Also, he’s afraid of being vomited on, which is a huge debilitation. Dude could kill a transient from 50 feet easily with a frisbee, though.

I sometimes find myself engaged in combat with hobos.

by kevin_ess on Oct 29, 2010 6:45 PM PDT up reply actions  

Same

I am completely incapable of opening a beer with anything other than a bottle opener. I’ve had so little success with it that I don’t even bother with it anymore

by tootthekazoo on Oct 29, 2010 11:36 AM PDT up reply actions  

I watched part of one episode of this show

Bleh

To improve, they should try to become the musical southern cal of the west. - bRuins Nation poster on the Stanford band.

by bluemax on Oct 29, 2010 2:09 PM PDT up reply actions  

Plus they're in Boston or something

so the accents, ugh.

On the other hand the pr0n parody could be good.

To improve, they should try to become the musical southern cal of the west. - bRuins Nation poster on the Stanford band.

by bluemax on Oct 29, 2010 2:51 PM PDT up reply actions  

I assume this has already been shown, but I'll try anyway.

AWESOME PUMPKIN.

I sometimes find myself engaged in combat with hobos.

by kevin_ess on Oct 28, 2010 11:06 PM PDT reply actions  

That takes some skill

To improve, they should try to become the musical southern cal of the west. - bRuins Nation poster on the Stanford band.

by bluemax on Oct 29, 2010 9:11 AM PDT up reply actions  

Because the fact that Farmville exists is proof that we are more able than any other species in history.

It’s also proof that our species doesn’t have the drive to match the intelligence.

It's hard to convince people to let you eat them if you're an asshole. - Thingray

by Faux on Oct 29, 2010 9:30 AM PDT up reply actions  

Becoming more efficient has allowed us to waste more time than ever.

"Ever tried? Ever failed? No matter. Try again. Fail again. Fail better." - Samuel Beckett Mariners Minors

by JY on Oct 29, 2010 10:12 AM PDT up reply actions  

I remember the original promise of computers

was that it would reduce a 40 hour work week to the point where people were so efficient they would have tons of free time all the time. Turns out they just find more and more crap to fill the 40 hour work week. Progress!

by pdb on Oct 29, 2010 10:14 AM PDT up reply actions  

Which raises this question.

How many people actually do 40 hrs of real work a week. At my old agency I was probably at 10 hrs.

by Scruffy Lefty on Oct 29, 2010 10:17 AM PDT up reply actions  

It depends on the week.

Work ran in cycles for me, whole journalism thing and all. but I was never actually working as much as everyone else seemed to think I was.

"Ever tried? Ever failed? No matter. Try again. Fail again. Fail better." - Samuel Beckett Mariners Minors

by JY on Oct 29, 2010 10:20 AM PDT up reply actions  

I hve had jobs where I worked 40 legitimate hours in a 40 hour week

I have also had jobs where I have worked 50-60 legitimate hours. My last two jobs, though, I was performing work for maybe 50% of the hours that I was at work. I hope in my next job to sorta split the difference and work maybe 30 hours in a 40 hour work week – I’m not interested in perpetual, heads-down cranking out of work all day.

by pdb on Oct 29, 2010 10:21 AM PDT up reply actions  

I'm in the same boat.

I hate when I have absolutely nothing to work on, like right now, cause the days take forever to end.

by d0nkey on Oct 29, 2010 10:47 AM PDT up reply actions  

I'm so glad I'm self employed now.

The days where I don’t have anything to work on I got downstairs to Archers Ale house.

by Scruffy Lefty on Oct 29, 2010 10:57 AM PDT up reply actions  

You have an Ale House downstairs?

You. Bastard.

"There! I just sold you for a cigarette! And I don't smoke!"

by Thingray on Oct 29, 2010 11:07 AM PDT up reply actions  

You're living my dream....

I’ve always wanted to live above a bar of some type… Sniff…

"There! I just sold you for a cigarette! And I don't smoke!"

by Thingray on Oct 29, 2010 11:17 AM PDT up reply actions  

I lived above a bar for about six months and it was horrible

the easy access to booze was awesome but the weeknights at 2AM when I had to work the next day and the bar spilled out into the street for 20 minutes while cabs and cars were summoned was hell.

by pdb on Oct 29, 2010 11:19 AM PDT up reply actions  

I was thinking more like a small dive bar, instead of a "club".

But I can see where that would be an issue.

"There! I just sold you for a cigarette! And I don't smoke!"

by Thingray on Oct 29, 2010 11:57 AM PDT up reply actions  

I lived above a pretty serious dive bar

The Greenlake Tavern, which no longer exists. And there were always people there at closing, and they always had long, loud, drunken conversations at closing time out on the sidewalk.

by pdb on Oct 29, 2010 12:05 PM PDT up reply actions  

There is that,

but it would still be worth it (especially when I was younger) just to have the experience.

"There! I just sold you for a cigarette! And I don't smoke!"

by Thingray on Oct 29, 2010 12:07 PM PDT up reply actions  

There is that.

I don’t think I’d want to do it now.

"There! I just sold you for a cigarette! And I don't smoke!"

by Thingray on Oct 29, 2010 12:09 PM PDT up reply actions  

Having lived above a bar that had live music

I can tell you for certain that you would not have enjoyed it.

Hearing “hit me with your best shot” twice a night, 4 days a week has scarred me.

by ToddK on Oct 29, 2010 1:35 PM PDT up reply actions  

Same.

There are weeks (especially in our company’s offseason) where I just sit at my desk waiting for the phone to ring while I try to stay busy with whatever odd project I can scrape together.

During the summer production season it’s a scramble to keep equipment working so I’m almost always on the road to one of our processing facilities to replace and fix computers.

by BrianL on Oct 29, 2010 10:58 AM PDT up reply actions  

Question, LL folk.

What do you do if you feel that your pay is wildly out of line with the work you’re performing? I’m making $10.71 an hour building, repairing, and servicing computers in five cities for the company I work for as well as handling some programming duties.

by BrianL on Oct 29, 2010 11:05 AM PDT up reply actions  

So I hope you're saying you're wildly underpaid...

We pay WAY more than that for our IT services, although some of it is network stuff. If that’s the case, I would look for another job.

"There! I just sold you for a cigarette! And I don't smoke!"

by Thingray on Oct 29, 2010 11:06 AM PDT up reply actions  

Yeah, that's what I'm getting at.

I’m in a tough spot though. Originally this company hired me to do odd jobs for a few hours a week but over the four years I’ve been with them I’ve bumped up my hours and have taken on all sorts of additional duties.

On the one hand, I’m really not happy that I’m making slightly more than I did at a dead-end retail gig. On the other, I really don’t want to piss someone off, lose this job, and have to test the job market.

by BrianL on Oct 29, 2010 11:08 AM PDT up reply actions  

Document how much work you do

and how that is different from the work you were hired to do. Be dispassionate about it, don’t be angry or bitter, but build a case that you should be making more (significantly more!) than you’re currently making and take that case to your boss or his/her boss.

Basically, you need to prove that you know you’re worth more than they’re paying you, and quantify why. If you do that and you still don’t get a raise, start looking for other work.

by pdb on Oct 29, 2010 11:11 AM PDT up reply actions  

I've actually made the pitch to my boss who agrees that that I'm being underpaid.

The problem is that he made the pitch to his boss (the organization structure in this company is bizarre) and and the highest pay raise I’ve gotten was a ten cent an hour bump between 2008 and now.

I’m far and away the youngest person employed in this office by about ten years, so I’ve gotten the vibe that the people who are actually responsible for what I’m making view me a bit more as a novelty than an actual contributing employee.

by BrianL on Oct 29, 2010 11:19 AM PDT up reply actions  

Ooooo.....

I’ve been there before. They think because you’re young that you don’t need or deserve to be making a “bunch of money”. A few years back I was told “you’re young, you make ENOUGH”. I just about came out of the booth!

Thankfully after I kindly offered to let them go try to find someone else to do my job for the same pay rate, they reconsidered and gave me a decent raise. They haven’t messed with me since.

"There! I just sold you for a cigarette! And I don't smoke!"

by Thingray on Oct 29, 2010 11:25 AM PDT up reply actions  

Best of both worlds, look hard, get an offer, tell your current boss, and let them fight over you.

You obviously like this place (or something like that), so if they are willing to keep you at a comparable salary it’s a win/win.

It's hard to convince people to let you eat them if you're an asshole. - Thingray

by Faux on Oct 29, 2010 11:11 AM PDT up reply actions  

I got a pay raise and a bonus at the end of the first year

at my previous job.

I was pretty nice because when they called me to come up I thought I was getting fired!

To improve, they should try to become the musical southern cal of the west. - bRuins Nation poster on the Stanford band.

by bluemax on Oct 29, 2010 11:19 AM PDT up reply actions  

This is partly why I went into sales.

I really only have myself to blame for my income now.

by Sec 108 on Oct 29, 2010 11:21 AM PDT up reply actions  

You know, it never hurts to go to your boss and say:

“Since I started here, I’ve taken on more and more duties and responsibilities, I was wondering if we could have a chat about my salary”.

"There! I just sold you for a cigarette! And I don't smoke!"

by Thingray on Oct 29, 2010 11:19 AM PDT up reply actions  

Umm, wow. How much experience do you have, a couple years under your belt, right?

I’m a bit of a special case at my work, where I’m not strictly IT, but I make ~55, with 4 yrs in the field.

And that’s low to average for the market out here.

It's hard to convince people to let you eat them if you're an asshole. - Thingray

by Faux on Oct 29, 2010 11:08 AM PDT up reply actions  

To continue my comment...

I’d agree with Thingray that you’re underpaid by quite a bit. I’d shop yourself around a little.

It's hard to convince people to let you eat them if you're an asshole. - Thingray

by Faux on Oct 29, 2010 11:08 AM PDT up reply actions  

Ick. You need a raise. Especially with the stress level.

My friend that does IT for a series of Health Care offices nets 50K a year.

by Scruffy Lefty on Oct 29, 2010 11:13 AM PDT up reply actions  

And this is in Bellingham.

Plus your company you currently work for won’t be able to replace you at what they’re currently paying you.

by Scruffy Lefty on Oct 29, 2010 11:15 AM PDT up reply actions  

The scary thing is that I think they can.

There are all sorts of people graduating with computer science degrees that can’t find work in this area.

by BrianL on Oct 29, 2010 11:27 AM PDT up reply actions  

Which of course brings up another issue

I can go look for other employment, but I’m fairly certain I’ll have a hard time finding it. I’ve got a handful of years experience in the job, but I’m still a year and change out from having something more than a worthless community college ATA degree.

by BrianL on Oct 29, 2010 11:31 AM PDT up reply actions  

If you have the experience, in lots of cases you don't need the degree.

I made it in with a little luck, and lots of busting my ass, but not even a HS diploma.

Granted, I work 80 hour weeks and hate my workplace, but I make decent money in a field that I like.

It's hard to convince people to let you eat them if you're an asshole. - Thingray

by Faux on Oct 29, 2010 11:33 AM PDT up reply actions  

You have a point, but don't let that discourage you.

Some companies are looking for the cheapest possible solution and others will hire the person that is right for the job. Seems like you are in the latter bunch

by d0nkey on Oct 29, 2010 11:34 AM PDT up reply actions  

Holy shit you have got to find a new job.

I feel like I am paid less than I am worth but that is just a fucking travesty.

by Aaron Campeau on Oct 29, 2010 11:15 AM PDT up reply actions  

I'm probably going to start sending my resume around, but it's tough.

I really like this company, I love the hours, and I love the people I work with. Unfortunately I think that people higher up than my department are viewing my status as a part-time employee and college student are taking advantage of my lack of a BAS degree.

by BrianL on Oct 29, 2010 11:21 AM PDT up reply actions  

That's probably the course I'm going to take.

I’m going to at least float that to my boss though. I know he likes the work I do and needs someone like me around because the rest of the department has become so specialized and doesn’t have time for the low-level IT stuff anymore. I’ll see if he can at least bring it up with his boss once more, this time bring up the threat that they might lose someone.

by BrianL on Oct 29, 2010 11:26 AM PDT up reply actions  

Go equipped with salary info for similar jobs.

Trawl Craigslist, Monster, Careerbuilder, etc. Say “this is what it will cost to replace me and this is what I can get elsewhere.” If they aren’t taking you seriously, make them.

by Aaron Campeau on Oct 29, 2010 11:27 AM PDT up reply actions  

That might backfire

because if they view you as young and cheap, they undoubtedly think that young cheap talent is a dime a dozen and let you walk. That’s not saying you shouldn’t try it, but don’t be at all surprised if your boss saying to his boss “pay BrianL more or he leaves” results in his boss saying “OK, whatever”.

by pdb on Oct 29, 2010 11:27 AM PDT up reply actions  

I made more than that as a student

working part time and doing similar work for fewer people.

To improve, they should try to become the musical southern cal of the west. - bRuins Nation poster on the Stanford band.

by bluemax on Oct 29, 2010 11:16 AM PDT up reply actions  

Jesus Christ, I agree with everyone else. Get another job.

Hell, you can more than that stocking grocery’s at Trader Joes and get benefits. You are being robbed blind.

Dawg! He put da team on his back!

by JAH on Oct 29, 2010 12:21 PM PDT up reply actions  

This is when you tell them this guy you kinda know...

Works at a call center, while also in college, and makes a higher hourly wage than you do for doing what is essentially monkey’s work, reading back resolutions off a computer screen to 80-year-old cell phone users in need of assistance.

There is no way I should be making more than you for what I do.

by harkening on Oct 29, 2010 4:50 PM PDT up reply actions  

Yeah...

I don’t know what kind of call center your brother works at, but I am overpaid. Happily overpaid, mind, but overpaid.

by harkening on Oct 29, 2010 5:36 PM PDT up reply actions  

I'm AT workfor 40 hours a week...

How much time to I actually spend working? Probably 30 to 34.

"There! I just sold you for a cigarette! And I don't smoke!"

by Thingray on Oct 29, 2010 11:00 AM PDT up reply actions  

Really depends on the week though,

Some weeks I feel like I work about 15 hours, and others it seems like 65 (like this week).

"There! I just sold you for a cigarette! And I don't smoke!"

by Thingray on Oct 29, 2010 11:05 AM PDT up reply actions  

I do, the exception is very very rare.

Such as Friday morning, we were locating points for wall pilings. Just drill a 40 foot hole, stand an I-beam in there and set it with a slurry mix of concrete. A couple of the holes kept unexpectedly collapsing and stopped the whole show for 4 hours.

by Kermit. on Oct 30, 2010 5:53 AM PDT up reply actions  

It's funny listening to the office/computer related stories. There are similarities.

Someone once mentioned having a few reports or programs compiling at once and so he had some time on his hands. On a construction site you might have ten or so guys spend most of a day or a week setting up a piece of equipment for a specific job.

Trucks bringing pieces on flatbed trailers, cranes and riggers for lifts, a whole supporting cast. Then they get it built and stand around while it does it’s job. Or has a single operator and just a few supporting cast. But you still need those other guys so you have to find something for them to do, because you’re at work so you have to be working. Busy work, they sometimes call it. Ugh, it’s the worst.

by Kermit. on Oct 30, 2010 5:59 AM PDT up reply actions  

Ants are too stupid to use computers.

Morgan Ensberg for Manager 2011!
AL Scout on Rendon: "I would peg him as a poor man's Jose Lopez."

by joof on Oct 29, 2010 10:57 AM PDT up reply actions  

Yeah, that's pretty horrible.

I think I hit my threshold a few months back when that lady was mad because the guy trying to kill himself had his fall broken by her car. Maybe something else will come up later.

"Ever tried? Ever failed? No matter. Try again. Fail again. Fail better." - Samuel Beckett Mariners Minors

by JY on Oct 29, 2010 10:11 AM PDT up reply actions  

`
He concluded that there was no evidence of Juliet’s "lack of intelligence or maturity"

SHE’S FOUR YEARS OLD.

by BrianL on Oct 29, 2010 11:00 AM PDT up reply actions  

There we go.

"Ever tried? Ever failed? No matter. Try again. Fail again. Fail better." - Samuel Beckett Mariners Minors

by JY on Oct 29, 2010 12:18 PM PDT up reply actions  

Oh fucking hell no.

"Oh, the usual. I bowl. Drive around. The occasional acid flashback."

by the other side on Oct 29, 2010 12:59 PM PDT up reply actions  

I got this one

featuring “”http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1ieHL9-rYyw&feature=player_embedded" target="new">Neptune, well-known god of the sea."

by yuniform on Oct 29, 2010 10:20 AM PDT up reply actions  

Renteria is playing in his third WS

To improve, they should try to become the musical southern cal of the west. - bRuins Nation poster on the Stanford band.

by bluemax on Oct 29, 2010 10:48 AM PDT up reply actions  

Still, he's played in more WS than Ichiro probably will

To improve, they should try to become the musical southern cal of the west. - bRuins Nation poster on the Stanford band.

by bluemax on Oct 29, 2010 11:18 AM PDT up reply actions  

Whose career would you rather have though?

Also Robert Horry while a role player was still a much better player than Uribe.

To improve, they should try to become the musical southern cal of the west. - bRuins Nation poster on the Stanford band.

by bluemax on Oct 29, 2010 11:47 AM PDT up reply actions  

You're not alone my friend.

Seems like a no-risk signing to me.

"There! I just sold you for a cigarette! And I don't smoke!"

by Thingray on Oct 29, 2010 10:59 AM PDT up reply actions  

How much upside is there with Moyer, though?

Since it seems like we’re punting next year, I don’t see any value, except PR. It’d be kinda cool if they made him a Sunday pitcher, or somehow made sure he only pitched at Safeco.

by yuniform on Oct 29, 2010 11:13 AM PDT up reply actions  

DO NOT PANDER TO THE GODDAMN NOSTALGISTS

if he’s going to be a pitcher for the Mariners, he pitches all season. Home and away. Otherwise, don’t bother with it.

by pdb on Oct 29, 2010 11:14 AM PDT up reply actions  

"Sundays At Safeco"

Join the Seattle Mariners each Sunday for family fun!

Turn Back The Clock uniforms!

Activities for the kiddies!

Jamie Moyer on the mound!

by msb on Oct 29, 2010 11:16 AM PDT up reply actions  

And number of freely available types.

Who’d heard of Doug Fister two years ago? You think he would have cost a ton of talent to pick up? This front office is here because they’re good at scouting. I’m sure they can find someone better and cheaper than Jamie Moyer.

by Aaron Campeau on Oct 29, 2010 11:26 AM PDT up reply actions  

Why?

He’s actively bad, has durability problems and will likely cost a not-insignificant amount of money in a year where you’ve got lots of holes and limited resources.

by Aaron Campeau on Oct 29, 2010 11:32 AM PDT up reply actions  

Really?

I don’t see a giant line for a 48 year old lefty that finished last season with arm trouble.

by Scruffy Lefty on Oct 29, 2010 11:41 AM PDT up reply actions  

Moyer's going to want at least a million, maybe something Griffey-like.

He could just hang out with his kids and charities instead of injure himself again.

by yuniform on Oct 29, 2010 11:46 AM PDT up reply actions  

I thought his family was here....

"There! I just sold you for a cigarette! And I don't smoke!"

by Thingray on Oct 29, 2010 12:09 PM PDT up reply actions  

Last year they packed up all the kids and moved to Bradenton

because both boys got into the baseball academy there; the Eldest graduated, but the younger is still enrolled. That’s why the house was available to be rented by Cliff Lee and his family :)

by msb on Oct 29, 2010 12:12 PM PDT up reply actions  

Matt Hasselbeck needs to find his way under some car tires.

Not trying to provoke, but ENOUGH.

I sometimes find myself engaged in combat with hobos.

by kevin_ess on Oct 29, 2010 7:31 PM PDT up reply actions  

Hey anybody that lives in Portland

do you bowl? Do you want to join a league? My team has two spots open and desperately needs a couple people. Are you a shitty bowler? Doesn’t matter, we’re a shitty team in a handicap league. It’s fun. Let me know if you’re interested.

by pdb on Oct 29, 2010 10:22 AM PDT reply actions  

Fan polls are so stupid

Stupid ESPN Poll

I don’t take issue with the overwhelming number of people that think that Oregon will beat USC, but 55% of voters think Darron Thomas is a better QB than Matt Barkley? That’s insane.

To improve, they should try to become the musical southern cal of the west. - bRuins Nation poster on the Stanford band.

by bluemax on Oct 29, 2010 11:25 AM PDT reply actions  

It's cute that people still care about ESPN polls

Seriously, just ignore it – it’s dryer lint.

by pdb on Oct 29, 2010 11:26 AM PDT up reply actions  

I don't care

I just wanted to talk about how dreamy and awesome Matt Barkley is

To improve, they should try to become the musical southern cal of the west. - bRuins Nation poster on the Stanford band.

by bluemax on Oct 29, 2010 11:33 AM PDT up reply actions  

It's all about the system. Thomas runs Oregon's offense better than Barkley does, and vice versa.

In a vacuum I want Barkley though.

I once accused Robert of being Dewey N, because I didn't know it was Fogel. I suck with context clues.

by thehemogoblin on Oct 29, 2010 3:11 PM PDT up reply actions  

It's very hard to use the computer when this happens

Photobucket

To avoid the LLLJness of it all, anybody else’s cat have a habit that if it weren’t so damn adorable, or if it were done by a person, would be incredibly annoying?

by pdb on Oct 29, 2010 11:30 AM PDT reply actions  

When my cat does this it's only because she wants you tell her how adorable she is.

She has little interest in the tummy rub and may start gnawing on your hand, playfully or not.

"Ever tried? Ever failed? No matter. Try again. Fail again. Fail better." - Samuel Beckett Mariners Minors

by JY on Oct 29, 2010 2:08 PM PDT up reply actions  

I made this mistake last weekend.

My cat hopped into my lap and started rolling around on his back. I rubbed his tummy and my hand soon become his favorite chew toy. Bad times.

by schismatix on Oct 29, 2010 2:15 PM PDT up reply actions  

The tuxedo cat I had last year

used to walk on my keyboard sometimes.

One of my Scotties likes to come up to me and put his head under my hand begging for me to scratch behind his ears/pet him. I could be playing a game or typing on my netbook and he will force my hand up on his head. Its really cute but its also a bit annoying. He also sometimes lays his head across my netbook keyboard and stares at me sadly when we are on the couch.

To improve, they should try to become the musical southern cal of the west. - bRuins Nation poster on the Stanford band.

by bluemax on Oct 29, 2010 11:37 AM PDT up reply actions  

How did you get my cat??

"There! I just sold you for a cigarette! And I don't smoke!"

by Thingray on Oct 29, 2010 11:53 AM PDT up reply actions  

Attacking my feet, but only if I'm wearing socks.

"There! I just sold you for a cigarette! And I don't smoke!"

by Thingray on Oct 29, 2010 11:54 AM PDT up reply actions  

Jumping onto my chair when I'm sitting in it while using my computer.

It still does get annoying though when I’m playing a computer game or something.

by Coach Owens on Oct 29, 2010 12:07 PM PDT up reply actions  

Trying to entice me to either play or feed him by nipping at my bare legs.

Enjoying the echo chamber effect of wowwing in the bathroom, for no good reason other than he can.

by msb on Oct 29, 2010 12:09 PM PDT up reply actions  

Kitty!

Mine does weird things like wander into the pantry (because she sees me get food out of there), getting stuck in the garage (she’s fascinated by it somehow) and insisting on waking someone up so she can be on the porch to watch the sun rise and the morning traffic leave (she has a thing about car watching). None of them really bother me though.

"Ever tried? Ever failed? No matter. Try again. Fail again. Fail better." - Samuel Beckett Mariners Minors

by JY on Oct 29, 2010 12:21 PM PDT up reply actions  

My cat managed to get locked in the garage this week, I still haven't figured out how.

Nobody went in the garage that day, and he was there at about 10:00pm. But the next morning he was howling to get out… He wouldn’t stray from my side for three days after that.

"There! I just sold you for a cigarette! And I don't smoke!"

by Thingray on Oct 29, 2010 2:11 PM PDT up reply actions  

"There" as in laying on the couch with my wife and I.

"There! I just sold you for a cigarette! And I don't smoke!"

by Thingray on Oct 29, 2010 2:11 PM PDT up reply actions  

My cat has never learned her lesson and doesn't seem to mind it all that much.

The weirdest was during one summer, back when I had a car with a sun roof, when I got in to drive to work and found her riding shotgun.

"Ever tried? Ever failed? No matter. Try again. Fail again. Fail better." - Samuel Beckett Mariners Minors

by JY on Oct 29, 2010 2:18 PM PDT up reply actions  

When I had outdoor cats this used to happen to me frequently.

Nothing like making a beer run to AM/PM with a very angry cat flying around in your car when it’s 95 degrees out.

"There! I just sold you for a cigarette! And I don't smoke!"

by Thingray on Oct 29, 2010 2:20 PM PDT up reply actions  

As soon as I open a lower cabinet door, my cat instantly goes in. He's fascinated by spots like that.

However, when I open the cabinet door to where we keep the Foreman Grill, he will always hiss. I haven’t quite figured out why. It could be that pulling the grill out creates quite a racket and maybe he doesn’t like it.

by Phil Hatzenbuehler on Oct 29, 2010 2:13 PM PDT up reply actions  

Last night as I petted the cat, I had a nanosecond of panic when I felt a lump.

and then I realized it was a kibble, under the fur on his back.

Kirby likes to chase kibble across the living room, and one must have stuck.

by msb on Oct 30, 2010 8:53 AM PDT up reply actions  

My vet has told me lumps under a cats skin are not uncommon and nearly always benign.

Mine has one that’s about 3/8th inch square and sticks out nearly a half inch. I cannot remember what he specifically called it, but he’s drained it a couple of times of a black fluid. It still gave me a start the first time I felt it though, so I know what you’re talking about.

by Kermit. on Oct 30, 2010 9:45 AM PDT up reply actions  

I LOVE putting funny shirts on my son.

To name a few:

Hung Like a Five Year-old
Daddy Drinks Because I Cry
Fuck The Ramones, The Dwarves Fuck Ladies
For Sale By Owner
It Seemed Like a Good Idea at the Time
I’m Pro Choice Now that I’m Safe
Turbonegro Kicked Me in My Baby Balls (Specially made for him/me)
Did I Shit My Pants, Or are you Just Lazy?
Let’s pretend I Actually Like this Crazy Baby talk You’re Doing.
But the best – “My Dad’s Band is SO MUCH better Than Your Favorite Band.”

I sometimes find myself engaged in combat with hobos.

by kevin_ess on Oct 29, 2010 7:42 PM PDT up reply actions  

Question for cat owners.

I have a cat named Klaus, that I’m pretty sure I’ve mentioned on here many times. He’s the man.
He’s a year and a half old male stray I adopted as a kitten.

Normally he’s the most outgoing, boisterous cat in the world. Will jump up on your shoulder, jump out and grab on to your legs, steal your bacon off your plate, pounce on your face while you’re sleeping… you get the idea.

Wednesday afternoon I came home from work and he was absolutely terrified. He was hunkered up in a corner of my room all wide eyed and shaking. He’s been like this since. He won’t move from room to room without me moving him myself, and is generally acting like he’s expecting to have something jump out and try to kill him at any moment. He freaks out and jumps at his shadow, any small noise, or anything that moves.

He’s still eating and drinking fine, and he’s not afraid of me at all, just everything else.

He was alone the entire day when whatever happened happened, and has no access outside.

Anyone have any ideas? I’m not sure if I should take him to the vet, I’m worried that would stress him out too much right now.

by BigR on Oct 29, 2010 11:49 AM PDT reply actions  

It was two days ago Wednesday,

And nothing but soft lovely snow here in MT

by BigR on Oct 29, 2010 11:56 AM PDT up reply actions  

Montana?

Maybe some wild animal was outside while you were gone, and scared the crap out of him…

"There! I just sold you for a cigarette! And I don't smoke!"

by Thingray on Oct 29, 2010 11:59 AM PDT up reply actions  

That's possible.

I’m more concerned about how to deal with him now, than what scared him.
Do you think maybe just some time to recoup will bring him back to normal?

by BigR on Oct 29, 2010 12:00 PM PDT up reply actions  

Catnip.

I’m somewhat serious… Get the little guy stoned and let him chill, and be sure to pay plenty of attnetion to him.

"There! I just sold you for a cigarette! And I don't smoke!"

by Thingray on Oct 29, 2010 12:02 PM PDT up reply actions  

Really?

I had a cat like that once, then I tried a different brand of catnip and boom, crazy as hell. I keep multiple types around the house now.

"There! I just sold you for a cigarette! And I don't smoke!"

by Thingray on Oct 29, 2010 12:07 PM PDT up reply actions  

This is true,

but if you ask the pet store they can show you different types of catnip. Some of them are more potent, some of them are just different, but they can work on different cats sometimes.

"There! I just sold you for a cigarette! And I don't smoke!"

by Thingray on Oct 29, 2010 12:15 PM PDT up reply actions  

Also double check there is not physical problem

an infection or a torn claw or something along those lines.

does he have a place he can hide himself for comfort?

by msb on Oct 29, 2010 12:03 PM PDT up reply actions  

He's freaked out by any hidey holes.

When I’m home he just wants to be held of set on my lap, but I really don’t know what he’s doing when I’m gone. He has free reign of the house though so he has options on whatever makes him feel the most comfortable.

by BigR on Oct 29, 2010 12:05 PM PDT up reply actions  

Freaked out by hidey holes...

Maybe you have a big rat, or a racoon or something… Just throwing ideas out there.

"There! I just sold you for a cigarette! And I don't smoke!"

by Thingray on Oct 29, 2010 12:08 PM PDT up reply actions  

Naw we don't even have mice.

He’s really not freaked out by other animals.
He regularly plays with my 70 pound Samoyed, and sits in the window sill all day watching animals and birds hanging out.

by BigR on Oct 29, 2010 12:11 PM PDT up reply actions  

Kirby hates being covered-- he won't go under the bedclothes, for example

but he goes behind the chair in the bedroom as a sort-of cave when hot or upset

by msb on Oct 29, 2010 12:14 PM PDT up reply actions  

If it's an animal he might take a long time to recover.

My dogs attacked one of my cats and he’s still scared of them even though that was months ago.

by Coach Owens on Oct 29, 2010 12:15 PM PDT up reply actions  

But yeah, I would take him to the vet just in case.

I don’t know if cats can technically be diagnosed with PTSD but it might be something you should check out.

by Coach Owens on Oct 29, 2010 12:17 PM PDT up reply actions  

All I can think of is bad weather too...

Either that or you have a dog hiding in your crawl space.

"There! I just sold you for a cigarette! And I don't smoke!"

by Thingray on Oct 29, 2010 11:55 AM PDT up reply actions  

Your house must be haunted

Seriously though, I’d call the vet and get their advice

by tootthekazoo on Oct 29, 2010 12:54 PM PDT up reply actions  

One of the best links I've run into lately

Mike Rowe talks about skilled trade and the false dichotomy of blue versus white collar jobs

Looking back on it, I’m rather mad that my high school counselors downplayed skilled trade jobs and vocational schools so much. I’m certain I wouldn’t cut it in that job arena, but I know there are a ton of kids in every graduating class that would fit this mold well. The whole “Go straight to a University or you’re a failure” mentality is going to hurt a lot of graduating students.

by BrianL on Oct 29, 2010 12:02 PM PDT reply actions  

It's BS that we've become a society where "blue collar" jobs have become something to be ashamed of.

People treat me with way more respect now that I do accounting. But back when I was a construction worker (and making as much if not more than I do now), people acted like I was a loser who was too dumb to do anything else. Even my parents said “I thought you’d do something better, you’re so smart”…

"There! I just sold you for a cigarette! And I don't smoke!"

by Thingray on Oct 29, 2010 12:06 PM PDT up reply actions  

Blue collar jobs do not go up in pay at the same rate as white collar jobs though.

I have far more respect for the work I used to do when I was blue collar, but it didn’t pay anywhere close to what I make now.

by Sec 108 on Oct 29, 2010 12:14 PM PDT up reply actions  

The chances of becoming a CEO through construction are pretty slim,

but there is plenty of room for advancement. The people that end up being foremen on jobs like building Qwest field and things like that make a VERY sizeable paycheck.

"There! I just sold you for a cigarette! And I don't smoke!"

by Thingray on Oct 29, 2010 12:16 PM PDT up reply actions  

Probably because of movies, shows, books, etc.

Blue-collar workers are often portrayed to be uneducated, stupid rednecks.

by Coach Owens on Oct 29, 2010 12:19 PM PDT up reply actions  

I think the really wild thing about that link

was that I didn’t realize that there’s a really good chance there’s going to be an incredible shortage of skilled trade and infrastructure workers before too long.

by BrianL on Oct 29, 2010 12:20 PM PDT up reply actions  

There is a VERY good chance.

Not to knock you (or any other IT person), but almost everyone is trying to do something with computers now. Soon anyone who can pound a nail will be worth $40 per hour.

"There! I just sold you for a cigarette! And I don't smoke!"

by Thingray on Oct 29, 2010 12:24 PM PDT up reply actions  

And then they'll fix the badly designed robots

and then they’ll have to patch the fix
and then they’ll have to roll out RobotNailer v2.0 even though RobotNailer 1.0 was perfectly fine
and then they’ll hire a bunch of consultants to tell them that RobotNailer needs to be Web-standards compliant
and then they’ll hire more consultants to optimize the UI of RobotNailer
and then people will use their old hammers to smash both RobotNailer and IT people to death

by pdb on Oct 29, 2010 12:34 PM PDT up reply actions   1 recs

RobotNailer v2.0 is slightly thinner and costs 135% of the original's release price.

"Ever tried? Ever failed? No matter. Try again. Fail again. Fail better." - Samuel Beckett Mariners Minors

by JY on Oct 29, 2010 12:37 PM PDT up reply actions  

And it has a camera!

And it connects to social networks!
And it liveblogs your construction projects!
And it links to your calendar!

by pdb on Oct 29, 2010 12:38 PM PDT up reply actions  

It shoots nails into your puppies!!

"There! I just sold you for a cigarette! And I don't smoke!"

by Thingray on Oct 29, 2010 1:45 PM PDT up reply actions  

Meanwhile...

We’ve reached out carrying capacity for lawyers.

This is something that I’ve been suspecting would happen for some time now, particularly where I am, having to deal with nearly everyone using law school as their escape route to the sweet life. Thus far I’ve only met one that is in it for something other than money. Can’t decide if that, or all the hopeless humanities majors thinking they’re going to become professors is worse.

"Ever tried? Ever failed? No matter. Try again. Fail again. Fail better." - Samuel Beckett Mariners Minors

by JY on Oct 29, 2010 12:28 PM PDT up reply actions  

Good man, now I've encountered two.

"Ever tried? Ever failed? No matter. Try again. Fail again. Fail better." - Samuel Beckett Mariners Minors

by JY on Oct 29, 2010 1:47 PM PDT up reply actions  

Make a note of this.

We should all call him for legal help in 10 years, since he’ll be willing to work for free.

"There! I just sold you for a cigarette! And I don't smoke!"

by Thingray on Oct 29, 2010 1:48 PM PDT up reply actions  

My friend who's not in it for the money is already having this problem.

As soon as people found out they started soliciting her for legal advice, so now she just tells everyone she’s into maritime law.

"Ever tried? Ever failed? No matter. Try again. Fail again. Fail better." - Samuel Beckett Mariners Minors

by JY on Oct 29, 2010 1:50 PM PDT up reply actions  

Ain't it in the consminitooshun that I kin sit on ma porch without ma undies?

Freedom of expreshun!! Dey dook our jubbs!!

"There! I just sold you for a cigarette! And I don't smoke!"

by Thingray on Oct 29, 2010 1:58 PM PDT up reply actions  

I love con law.

I worked with someone who was into sabremetrics (albeit in their 70s/80s infancy) and constitutional law, but his professional career was in something completely unrelated. This is your future (and it’s a damn fine one).

I can’t ever get the opportunity costs to pencil out, and after getting utterly burned out on school, I don’t think I ‘missed out’ or anything, but I think it’s cool that you’re doing this. I’ll just be hanging out, takin’ er easy for all of you sinners.

by marc w on Oct 29, 2010 2:00 PM PDT up reply actions  

And I hope that con law is part of my professional career

I just applied for an internship with the 9th Circuit Court of Appeals – getting that would be amazing.

by Graham MacAree on Oct 29, 2010 2:03 PM PDT up reply actions  

All joking aside,

that is really cool Graham. Much better than just being a late night infomercial lawyer.

"There! I just sold you for a cigarette! And I don't smoke!"

by Thingray on Oct 29, 2010 2:06 PM PDT up reply actions  

Huh. I still see you doing something completely different.

If you get the internship, I want some good Kozinski stories.

by marc w on Oct 29, 2010 2:18 PM PDT up reply actions  

I don't think he does much work in Portland, but I think I'd get to meet him if I did land this

I’m hoping against hope that there’s not a giant flood of massively talented, qualified applicants for the position, because working in the judicial chambers of a federal appelate court would be super super cool.

by Graham MacAree on Oct 29, 2010 2:28 PM PDT up reply actions  

Well, there's basically a giant flood of talented, qualified applicants

for pretty much everything right now. Especially in legal fields.

Which will only make your triumph sweeter.

by marc w on Oct 29, 2010 3:02 PM PDT up reply actions  

This reminds me of the fact that British folks always point out that they have one, it's just not written.

But what does this do to Con Law? It would look so radically different, so much more like regular bill drafting or something. Wouldn’t it? Or is there an unwritten ‘agreement’ about how to weight precedent, natural rights, etc.?

by marc w on Oct 29, 2010 3:05 PM PDT up reply actions  

The problem is that standards for universities are far too low

A lot of people have degrees they have no right to, from BAs to JDs. Cut university places by 50% and a) skilled trades become much more attractive and b) universities become something you have to want to do and work towards rather than a four-year vacation with no work and a piece of paper at the end of it.

by Graham MacAree on Oct 29, 2010 1:41 PM PDT up reply actions  

That's the other problem.

They’ll accredit anyone these days, so degrees without name recognition mean a great deal less than they used to.

"Ever tried? Ever failed? No matter. Try again. Fail again. Fail better." - Samuel Beckett Mariners Minors

by JY on Oct 29, 2010 1:49 PM PDT up reply actions  

For me I just get upset that a person with a degree in Russian History would get a job importing birds from Jamaica,

over a person who has spent five years working with birds, but doesn’t have a degree. Simply because they have a degree in SOMETHING. Maybe it’s not that way anymore, but when I was in the job market it was.

"There! I just sold you for a cigarette! And I don't smoke!"

by Thingray on Oct 29, 2010 2:00 PM PDT up reply actions  

I make around $10.5k less than I would if I had the same job and a degree.

And not even a degree in a related field. I could have a degree in Slavic Literature and be making that much more.

by Aaron Campeau on Oct 29, 2010 2:03 PM PDT up reply actions  

See, that is what makes me angry.

Is the person with the degree any better at the job than you are? No? Then why should they be paid differently?

"There! I just sold you for a cigarette! And I don't smoke!"

by Thingray on Oct 29, 2010 2:07 PM PDT up reply actions  

And to piggyback on Graham's point above, I dropped out of school because I actually felt like it was making me stupider

A short-sighted decision borne of hubris certainly, but holy shit are there a lot of stupid people in college

by Aaron Campeau on Oct 29, 2010 2:15 PM PDT up reply actions  

There are stupid people everywhere.

"Ever tried? Ever failed? No matter. Try again. Fail again. Fail better." - Samuel Beckett Mariners Minors

by JY on Oct 29, 2010 2:19 PM PDT up reply actions  

After a certain point you have stop giving a shit and focus on what you're doing.

"Ever tried? Ever failed? No matter. Try again. Fail again. Fail better." - Samuel Beckett Mariners Minors

by JY on Oct 29, 2010 2:21 PM PDT up reply actions  

Hence!
A short-sighted decision borne of hubris certainly

My point is that were college not viewed as the only way to make a decent life for oneself perhaps people not well suited for college wouldn’t go.

by Aaron Campeau on Oct 29, 2010 2:26 PM PDT up reply actions  

I'm in agreement there.

College is the new high school.

"Ever tried? Ever failed? No matter. Try again. Fail again. Fail better." - Samuel Beckett Mariners Minors

by JY on Oct 29, 2010 2:29 PM PDT up reply actions  

It can be to an extent.

I knew a lot of people who probably would have gone to the peace corps immediately if not for the need for a BA.

"Ever tried? Ever failed? No matter. Try again. Fail again. Fail better." - Samuel Beckett Mariners Minors

by JY on Oct 29, 2010 2:36 PM PDT up reply actions  

But they actually think it's a requirement.

Like high school is after middle school. They don’t think simply going into the work force after high school is even an option.

"There! I just sold you for a cigarette! And I don't smoke!"

by Thingray on Oct 29, 2010 2:39 PM PDT up reply actions  

I really, honestly think that college shouldn't be an option for many people

If you cut off admissions at a reasonable level (like, say, the top 50% of HS students in academics), there’s no stigma associated with not having a degree, and the other options become more publicised, workforce gets re-balanced, etc.

by Graham MacAree on Oct 29, 2010 2:41 PM PDT up reply actions  

This actually doesn't sound like a bad idea.

We’ve gone from making a college level education available to making it effectively required.

"Ever tried? Ever failed? No matter. Try again. Fail again. Fail better." - Samuel Beckett Mariners Minors

by JY on Oct 29, 2010 2:46 PM PDT up reply actions  

I don't think this is universal

but it is more prevalent than it should be.

To improve, they should try to become the musical southern cal of the west. - bRuins Nation poster on the Stanford band.

by bluemax on Oct 29, 2010 2:50 PM PDT up reply actions  

No, it's not universal.

but I think it’s more common now than people would like to admit.

by Mariner John on Oct 29, 2010 2:53 PM PDT up reply actions  

This was a huge problem at the college I went to.

The new president decided the college needed to expand in order to bring in more money. The administration planned a ton of major projects and then drastically increased enrollment in order to cover the costs. They didn’t care who they were admitting, just as long as they were receiving a check every semester. Within 3 years, the school’s finances were in the tank and the president quit.

The admin had no regard for the long-term development of the college, or the development of its students. It’s been about 4 years, and the college is just now starting to get everything back under control.

by schismatix on Oct 29, 2010 3:01 PM PDT up reply actions  

There would absolutely be a stigma related to that though

you’ve just divided the student population in half based on a totally arbitrary criteria, and unless you give the lower 50% as many career path options as you give the college-bound, this won’t help any over what is currently in place.

The answer is not so much ‘admit less people to college’ and more ‘do a better job of educating students as to why college may not be the best choice and what a better choice might be’.

by pdb on Oct 29, 2010 2:53 PM PDT up reply actions  

I know PLENTY of people who barely graduated high school (because of various reasons)

that are much smarter academically than people that graduated with 3.9’s. There are two many things that can affect your GPA to make that the qualifier for college.

"There! I just sold you for a cigarette! And I don't smoke!"

by Thingray on Oct 29, 2010 2:55 PM PDT up reply actions  

That's a problem with high school in general

The focus is on getting good grades instead of learning. These two things can easily be mutually exclusive, but guess which one gets you into college?

Determined, Jonesing Commentor

by Corco on Oct 29, 2010 2:59 PM PDT up reply actions  

Word up man.

"Ever tried? Ever failed? No matter. Try again. Fail again. Fail better." - Samuel Beckett Mariners Minors

by JY on Oct 29, 2010 2:59 PM PDT up reply actions  

I am the poster-child.

<2.0 GPA, no college, software developer.

by d0nkey on Oct 29, 2010 3:08 PM PDT up reply actions  

That's the qualm that I have with the idea.

If there was a 50% cutoff, I would be fucked. Plus what’s 50% for some might not be 50% for others. We remember sb’s stories of his co-workers after all.

"Ever tried? Ever failed? No matter. Try again. Fail again. Fail better." - Samuel Beckett Mariners Minors

by JY on Oct 29, 2010 2:59 PM PDT up reply actions  

There's already a cutoff, guys

It’s based on the number of graduating HS students to college places.

by Graham MacAree on Oct 29, 2010 3:01 PM PDT up reply actions  

I'm just uncomfortable with the idea of a legislated cutoff

and would be much happier if vocational/manual/skilled labor was given equal weight as a choice for students, no matter what their educational experience provided them in terms of opportunities for college.

by pdb on Oct 29, 2010 3:06 PM PDT up reply actions  

I'm in this boat.

I think everyone that wants to go to college and is capable of doing so should be able to. But I also think that if more people were aware that it wasn’t their only hope for a decent life and there wasn’t a stigma attached to not having a degree that significantly more people would be inclined to pursue other paths.

by Aaron Campeau on Oct 29, 2010 3:08 PM PDT up reply actions  

Able to meet the standards of the institution

which would likely be more challenging were college not viewed as something everyone but total failures do.

by Aaron Campeau on Oct 29, 2010 3:11 PM PDT up reply actions  

This is the point I have been trying to make

Re-emphasize alternative tracks and college admissions will become more selective and competitive in the way that Graham describes organically.

by pdb on Oct 29, 2010 3:19 PM PDT up reply actions  

My feeling on this is if that you shift out some of the talent into other paths

Colleges will actually become even less selective – some of their previous admits have just run off to learn a trade.

by Graham MacAree on Oct 29, 2010 3:20 PM PDT up reply actions  

Is that a bad thing though?

Is it imperative that our best minds go to university?

Determined, Jonesing Commentor

by Corco on Oct 29, 2010 3:21 PM PDT up reply actions  

Not as the unversity is currently structured, no.

"Ever tried? Ever failed? No matter. Try again. Fail again. Fail better." - Samuel Beckett Mariners Minors

by JY on Oct 29, 2010 3:23 PM PDT up reply actions  

I think so

It’s about a support structure and network of people who can change the world.

I think I like the world where Dr. Hawking is a physicist better than the one in which he was an electrician.

by Graham MacAree on Oct 29, 2010 3:24 PM PDT up reply actions  

False dichotomy.

Going to college does not make you x; it merely gives you a degree in x. If a person is passionate about a subject, and reasonably skilled at it, they Good Will Hunting their way through that subject.

The problem for said autodidacts is in the perception that their lack of a college degree is a problem. If we devalue the degree and respect the education, ability and experience, then who cares if you went to Harvard?

by harkening on Oct 29, 2010 5:10 PM PDT up reply actions  

That's where my problem lies with an arbitrary, codified cutoff

Who defines what the line is? 50% of what criteria? Grades, test scores, a combination?

Any time a cutoff is applied, to anything, the below-the-line things or people get stigmatized. It would be better, I think, to weight all options equally for anybody, that way even people who could go to college can also choose not to and not then be seen as a failure because they decided to go learn how to be a woodworker or an electrician.

by pdb on Oct 29, 2010 3:12 PM PDT up reply actions  

Again, there already is a cutoff

There are less places than there are potential applicants (by a decent amount, too).

And yes, college applications are by their nature occasionally unfair, but from my perspective if there were vastly fewer spots in college we’d see higher quality degrees and more talented skilled workers.

by Graham MacAree on Oct 29, 2010 3:15 PM PDT up reply actions  

The stigma would be "You didn't go to college? You're obviously an idiot since you weren't in the top 50% of your HS class"

But I do see your point. Maybe this would work better just by raising the entry standards.

"There! I just sold you for a cigarette! And I don't smoke!"

by Thingray on Oct 29, 2010 2:54 PM PDT up reply actions  

I wasn't in the top 50% in my high school class by grades

I never was talking about grades. And really, you can enforce this cutoff by having a certain number of college spots open rather than deny applications to those below a certain level.

by Graham MacAree on Oct 29, 2010 3:00 PM PDT up reply actions  

I don't see why

Is there a stigma attached to not going to an Ivy League school? They take on, what, the top 3-5% of HS students in the country each year?

by Graham MacAree on Oct 29, 2010 3:12 PM PDT up reply actions  

There's not so much a stigma attached to not going

as a perception of superiority attached to going. I guess my point is, why should someone who can go to Harvard be valued more in society than someone who can fix your wiring?

Or, to put it another way:
Brian Johnson: [after Brian explains his F in shop] Did you know without trigonometry, there’d be no engineering?
Bender: Without lamps, there’d be no light.

by pdb on Oct 29, 2010 3:15 PM PDT up reply actions  

You said the top 50% in academics, so I assumed you meant grades.

Do you mean SAT scores or something? Anyway, I don’t think there should be a limit on the number of qualified students who can be admitted. Anyone who wants and education and is able to meet the standards for college should be allowed to attend.

Now, not everyone should be allowed into MIT or Ivy League schools, but they should be eligible for state run schools at the very least.

"There! I just sold you for a cigarette! And I don't smoke!"

by Thingray on Oct 29, 2010 3:16 PM PDT up reply actions  

I don't think colleges are willing to spend the time to evaluate based on anything besides SAT and GPA.

The entrance essays aren’t terribly revealing at any non-Ivy League level school and I’m not sure how much they read all of them to begin with. That’s the problem with determining who’s qualified in my view.

by Mariner John on Oct 29, 2010 3:18 PM PDT up reply actions  

I don't think entrance essays are revealing at really any level.

Except in certain graduate programs where you have an idea of the student’s focus/aesthetic.

"Ever tried? Ever failed? No matter. Try again. Fail again. Fail better." - Samuel Beckett Mariners Minors

by JY on Oct 29, 2010 3:21 PM PDT up reply actions  

I think it's more just to make sure you're capable of compiling a coherent piece of paper

Which in today’s world is more of a rarity than it should be

Determined, Jonesing Commentor

by Corco on Oct 29, 2010 3:24 PM PDT up reply actions  

As you said yourself,

from looking into the comp classes, most people can’t get that far.

"Ever tried? Ever failed? No matter. Try again. Fail again. Fail better." - Samuel Beckett Mariners Minors

by JY on Oct 29, 2010 3:31 PM PDT up reply actions  

Perhaps admission isn't the right way to think about it.

I think everybody agrees that anybody who wants access to a university education should have a crack at it. But perhaps the standard for work and grades at university should be raised so that only those who do really excellent work can stay in.

Wouldn’t that address the issue? That would thin out those who either aren’t motivated or capable of doing really high caliber university work and would maintain the high standard that Graham is talking about.

I have no earthly idea how you’d practically do this, but I think that’s the answer.

by Chris Hafner on Oct 29, 2010 3:21 PM PDT up reply actions  

I think a lot of it comes down to money

University has more money if it takes fringe students- cut students equals fewer tuition dollars. To the point that the opportunity cost of having one more student is less than the tuition they bring in, there’s little incentive for universities not to promote the system as it is today.

Determined, Jonesing Commentor

by Corco on Oct 29, 2010 3:23 PM PDT up reply actions  

This is a big part of why I'm not sure it's practical.

Today you have lots of demand for higher education from kids and their parents, and lots of colleges that have a strong financial incentive to provide supply. Both of those factors would make it difficult to contract the volume of college-bound kids.

by Chris Hafner on Oct 29, 2010 3:26 PM PDT up reply actions  

A bigger problem is the "special snowflake" mentality.

All of this would require a massive social shift and I don’t see that happening in the near future.

by Aaron Campeau on Oct 29, 2010 3:28 PM PDT up reply actions  

Give me free reign and a shotgun and we can get it started.

"There! I just sold you for a cigarette! And I don't smoke!"

by Thingray on Oct 29, 2010 3:28 PM PDT up reply actions  

Well... Fuck that of course.

Much of my family thinks this way.. MY KID SHOULD BE TREATED DIFFERENTLY BECAUSE….

"There! I just sold you for a cigarette! And I don't smoke!"

by Thingray on Oct 29, 2010 3:30 PM PDT up reply actions  

LEGACY

"Ever tried? Ever failed? No matter. Try again. Fail again. Fail better." - Samuel Beckett Mariners Minors

by JY on Oct 29, 2010 3:32 PM PDT up reply actions  

How fast does he run?

To improve, they should try to become the musical southern cal of the west. - bRuins Nation poster on the Stanford band.

by bluemax on Oct 29, 2010 3:32 PM PDT up reply actions  

I think the time is right for contraction on the college side

Hell, most every state is cutting higher ed.

The key is: what about the other side of the deal? Are we ready to double the supply of certificated/trade school slots? Apprenticeships?

by marc w on Oct 29, 2010 3:32 PM PDT up reply actions  

Are we ready to?

I don’t know. I absolutely think we should try, though.

by Graham MacAree on Oct 29, 2010 3:33 PM PDT up reply actions  

Ideally, yes.

Unfortunately, those programs have been withering. They’d need much more resources and investment in instructors, and both are tough to find right now. I think it’ll have to happen at some point though, at least at a small scale.

by Chris Hafner on Oct 29, 2010 3:35 PM PDT up reply actions  

We have these things

link. People seem to love ‘em. They’re small, but I just find it so strange that a system that produces/operates skills centers could ALSO be lying to kids that they will fail forever without a BA.

by marc w on Oct 29, 2010 3:48 PM PDT up reply actions  

Weird

when I was a HS Senior I knew plenty of people who had alternate plans.

To improve, they should try to become the musical southern cal of the west. - bRuins Nation poster on the Stanford band.

by bluemax on Oct 29, 2010 2:44 PM PDT up reply actions  

So did I, but...

that was usually because they were either resistant to the institution or were into programming and could effectively bypass school for that.

"Ever tried? Ever failed? No matter. Try again. Fail again. Fail better." - Samuel Beckett Mariners Minors

by JY on Oct 29, 2010 2:45 PM PDT up reply actions  

I think a lot of the kids I knew

who weren’t set on the 4 year university path were “intelligent” but didn’t have the highest grades or whatever so they looked for alternate paths.

And some of them were just sick of going to school.

To improve, they should try to become the musical southern cal of the west. - bRuins Nation poster on the Stanford band.

by bluemax on Oct 29, 2010 2:50 PM PDT up reply actions  

That was me.

I thought schools were a BS institution, and ever since I was in 1st grade I couldn’t wait to be done. I never planned on going to college, EVER, even though I graduated with honors. I eventually took one year of community college, which just cemented my belief that schools were BS and a waste of time.

"There! I just sold you for a cigarette! And I don't smoke!"

by Thingray on Oct 29, 2010 2:57 PM PDT up reply actions  

They teach shit that nobody really cares about.

History, science, arts.. the people that are into them should take the classes, because it is good stuff to know, and interesting to some people. But it doesn’t need to be forced down everyone’s throats.

Things that should be taught in high school like finance, economics, how the legal system works, politics, etc.. those are things that I feel should have been taught

by d0nkey on Oct 29, 2010 3:28 PM PDT up reply actions  

I have mixed feelings on this.

I adore the core curriculum that gives you a foundation in western thought, but most people seem to hate it and merely go through the motions.

"Ever tried? Ever failed? No matter. Try again. Fail again. Fail better." - Samuel Beckett Mariners Minors

by JY on Oct 29, 2010 3:33 PM PDT up reply actions  

As an Engineering major

I honestly blew off most of my GEs and thought “When will I ever need to know about this stuff?”

On the one hand I appreciated why it is good to have a broad education, but when you’re doing a ton of calc homework and spending 20 hours a week in a computer lab, reading a couple hundred pages about the Ming Dynasty just seems like a time luxury that I didn’t have.

To improve, they should try to become the musical southern cal of the west. - bRuins Nation poster on the Stanford band.

by bluemax on Oct 29, 2010 3:37 PM PDT up reply actions  

I disagree as well

When I left UPS, a liberal arts college, I did so largely on the thought that I wasn’t learning anything useful.

Once I left, I realized I learned a hell of a lot more than I thought I did, and if nothing else taking all those seemingly pointless classes taught me how to think.

I think knowing how to think is probably more valuable than knowing the facts you actually learn.

Determined, Jonesing Commentor

by Corco on Oct 29, 2010 3:39 PM PDT up reply actions   1 recs

Rec'd and completely agreed.

There are plenty of facts that I don’t remember from my college experience – most of them, in fact – but giving yourself a broad base of general knowledge and learning critical thinking is a big part of education.

Let’s not conflate the fact that lots of people don’t get much out of education because they don’t apply themselves with the potential value of said education.

by Chris Hafner on Oct 29, 2010 3:41 PM PDT up reply actions  

It really is ridiculous

College should not be the only path to success, just as academic smarts are not the only measure of intelligence.

by Graham MacAree on Oct 29, 2010 2:29 PM PDT up reply actions  

Join the military, make them pay for college.

"There! I just sold you for a cigarette! And I don't smoke!"

by Thingray on Oct 29, 2010 3:36 PM PDT up reply actions  

Again, what about skills centers?

Who GOES to these programs if no one’s told about them? This must be happening on a school by school basis or something… I’m confused.

by marc w on Oct 29, 2010 3:50 PM PDT up reply actions  

I think we're all clearly overstating things a little bit.

I don’t think mention of the trades in high school as a viable career path is completely nonexistent in school today; but even for me back in the early-to-mid-1990s that mention was extremely deemphasized.

If you were of average intelligence and you wanted a good future, the expectation was that you’d go to college. If you didn’t, well, you were squandering your talent.

I definitely received and processed that message. I’m not sure it’s all down to the school, though – parents and society help perpetuate that too.

by Chris Hafner on Oct 29, 2010 3:57 PM PDT up reply actions  

This may be a bit hyperbolic; I mean, we've just come out of an era

in which apprentice-level people in the trades could make a lot of money. Housing construction+finish carpentry+carpet/flooring… the new construction alone made for lots of work that didn’t require college, and that’s not getting into the fact that everyone was convinced they needed to remodel ever other year.

I think it’s possible now that the ‘college is the only way’ folks are ascendent solely because so many people who depended on the housing-as-atm industry are out of work. They see a BA as ‘safer’ and they may actually be right. But I think there are still a lot of people out there who know that the trades are a hell of a good option for many. Are there really people out there who don’t think electricians make good money?

by marc w on Oct 29, 2010 2:41 PM PDT up reply actions  

Kids are not being told to stick to their strengths

Instead of being steered towards apprenticeships, they’re being shuttled to mediocre schools and getting silly degrees.

But my opinion of guidance counselors isn’t very high :)

by Graham MacAree on Oct 29, 2010 2:42 PM PDT up reply actions  

So very true

To improve, they should try to become the musical southern cal of the west. - bRuins Nation poster on the Stanford band.

by bluemax on Oct 29, 2010 2:45 PM PDT up reply actions  

My high school guidance counselor often told kids that

if they didn’t get into University-grade extracurriculars, “You’re going to have to go to a vocational school.”

That’s where we are now.

by BrianL on Oct 29, 2010 2:53 PM PDT up reply actions  

"Have to"...

That’s the key. They make it sound like anything but a university makes you a failure.

"There! I just sold you for a cigarette! And I don't smoke!"

by Thingray on Oct 29, 2010 2:59 PM PDT up reply actions  

I hated my counselor.

I got permission to drop what was called Info Tech, a class that teaches keyboarding and Microsoft Office skills. She pulled me into her office every week for two years to insist I wasn’t going to survive college because I hadn’t taken the class.

That was despite the fact I had A+ Computer Support, HTML, and VB.NET on my high school transcript.

by BrianL on Oct 29, 2010 3:06 PM PDT up reply actions  

They also rarely go beyond a perfunctory level of engagement.

"Ever tried? Ever failed? No matter. Try again. Fail again. Fail better." - Samuel Beckett Mariners Minors

by JY on Oct 29, 2010 3:06 PM PDT up reply actions  

My counselor wouldn't let me take another math class for a semester my senior year.

The reason was that I had already taken calculus and that was the highest math you could take. So I took the immensely useless oceanography class.

by Mariner John on Oct 29, 2010 3:12 PM PDT up reply actions  

Who the hell are these counselors and why do they have so much power?

When I was in high school, high school counselors pretty much stayed in their offices except for their twice-yearly speeches to our class about how and when to apply for college. That was the only time I ever saw them.

by Chris Hafner on Oct 29, 2010 3:13 PM PDT up reply actions  

I was honestly just looking to take a class to fill my schedule since I couldn't have a free period.

That was the only way I could do it. Never mind that I hadn’t taken that math class before. He was one of those “I’ve been here for 25 years and I’m just waiting to retire” type of people though.

by Mariner John on Oct 29, 2010 3:15 PM PDT up reply actions  

Oh yes.

If you want to do anything slightly strange you go to the counselor and beg.

by Graham MacAree on Oct 29, 2010 3:31 PM PDT up reply actions  

And you'd better start trying three months in advance.

Unless you visit them a dozen times to beg you have no hope.

by BrianL on Oct 29, 2010 3:33 PM PDT up reply actions  

All I've got is that there are people

who seem really lonely and they ‘let’ you partake in compulsory education if you visit them. I have never felt so confused/old/glad-I’m-not-younger than I do right now.

by marc w on Oct 29, 2010 3:37 PM PDT up reply actions  

I just...I can't make sense out of this.

What do they…want? What are they trying to do? What do you mean by ‘strange’?

by marc w on Oct 29, 2010 3:36 PM PDT up reply actions  

So some of them are actively trying to get

marginal students OUT of college-prep classes (JY’s example) and others are trying their best to get more marginal students IN to college prep classes?

And all students need to visit them often for this, or they’ll just make you do the opposite of whatever it was you wanted to do?

by marc w on Oct 29, 2010 3:40 PM PDT up reply actions  

For me it was taking 100% AP classes despite a poor GPA

Eventually four or five teachers had to intervene to get me into their classes.

by Graham MacAree on Oct 29, 2010 3:39 PM PDT up reply actions  

Gah.

You weren’t allowed? For that bullshit reasoning?

by Chris Hafner on Oct 29, 2010 3:42 PM PDT up reply actions  

Yep.

I had to take the only class left (because trying to convince them took so long) and it was called “Learning Strategies.” It was a tremendous use of my time!

by Aaron Campeau on Oct 29, 2010 3:44 PM PDT up reply actions  

I was forced to leave the jazz band senior year

Since it interfered with one of the english-credit classes that they were trying to require me to take, even though I already had enough total credits to graduate

by tootthekazoo on Oct 29, 2010 4:44 PM PDT up reply actions  

GPA

It’s the ERA of education.

by BrianL on Oct 29, 2010 4:21 PM PDT up reply actions  

What was you VORS?

(value over replacement student)

"There! I just sold you for a cigarette! And I don't smoke!"

by Thingray on Oct 29, 2010 4:23 PM PDT up reply actions  

Dude, you can't use VORS, it doesn't account for defense.

I once accused Robert of being Dewey N, because I didn't know it was Fogel. I suck with context clues.

by thehemogoblin on Oct 29, 2010 4:26 PM PDT up reply actions  

How about UTR?

Ultimate Test Rating.

"There! I just sold you for a cigarette! And I don't smoke!"

by Thingray on Oct 29, 2010 4:36 PM PDT up reply actions  

That only works if you use four years of active schooling.

And we still don’t know how Communication Majors work.

Dawg! He put da team on his back!

by JAH on Oct 29, 2010 4:39 PM PDT up reply actions  

I prefer Teacher-Independent Learning.

We need self-determinate students.

I once accused Robert of being Dewey N, because I didn't know it was Fogel. I suck with context clues.

by thehemogoblin on Oct 29, 2010 4:40 PM PDT up reply actions  

That would require better materials.

"Ever tried? Ever failed? No matter. Try again. Fail again. Fail better." - Samuel Beckett Mariners Minors

by JY on Oct 29, 2010 4:47 PM PDT up reply actions  

So we should let players write in their own stats?

"There! I just sold you for a cigarette! And I don't smoke!"

by Thingray on Oct 29, 2010 4:48 PM PDT up reply actions  

My GPA didn't translate to the big leagues

But my true talent level is a lot higher as indicated by my peripherals.

To improve, they should try to become the musical southern cal of the west. - bRuins Nation poster on the Stanford band.

by bluemax on Oct 29, 2010 4:49 PM PDT up reply actions  

OK, go it. Not that you'd really need the class.

I had a teacher intervene to NOT let me into an AP class, but I still took the test.
5. Fuck you, teacher.

by marc w on Oct 29, 2010 3:41 PM PDT up reply actions   1 recs

Not in my high school.

They’d make an occasional suggestion (if you hunted them down), but mostly they hung out with the ASB kids and the “chosen ones” and figured out how to throw a “neato spring dance” and that kind of shit.

"There! I just sold you for a cigarette! And I don't smoke!"

by Thingray on Oct 29, 2010 3:32 PM PDT up reply actions  

I get the feeling that something massive changed

about 10 years ago. All the old people are totally confused by the notion of the guidance counselor as academic king maker.

by marc w on Oct 29, 2010 3:35 PM PDT up reply actions  

Yep.

I saw mine maybe twice during my HS years, and both times she gave me the wrong information.

"There! I just sold you for a cigarette! And I don't smoke!"

by Thingray on Oct 29, 2010 3:37 PM PDT up reply actions  

I think I only saw the counselor

after I threatened to blow up the school.

I think maybe once I had to see her about something else related to college but since I already had applied and knew where I wanted to go there was no point.

Oh wait, I saw her another time because I had transferred high schools and was supposed to take some bs extra requirement. I wrote a letter to the principal telling him I was one of the top 10 students at the school and another semester of PE was less important than staying in Jazz band, so he waived it and that was that.

To improve, they should try to become the musical southern cal of the west. - bRuins Nation poster on the Stanford band.

by bluemax on Oct 29, 2010 3:40 PM PDT up reply actions   1 recs

I graduated high school five years ago, and I'm confused by all this too.

All my school did was make sure you were on track to graduate high school every term. And classes were totally up to the students, assuming you had prerequisites. We just had a big assembly where they went over classes and what you needed to graduate, and then turned in the classes we wanted to a box. Next semester we would then get a schedule with the classes we choose.

And all the contact I had with the counselor at my school was turning in a sheet with facts about myself so he’d write me a letter of recommendation. All the stuff everyone’s talking about is kinda shocking.

Morgan Ensberg for Manager 2011!
AL Scout on Rendon: "I would peg him as a poor man's Jose Lopez."

by joof on Oct 30, 2010 4:11 AM PDT up reply actions  

They'll fucking do it in jr. high if you let them.

I got blackballed by one of my instructors in 7th grade who didn’t even teach in a field that offered advanced classes in 8th and 9th and that was enough to get me kicked into the normal classes because my guidance counselor was too busy solving the personal problems of the popular girl crowd.

Sorry still bitter.

"Ever tried? Ever failed? No matter. Try again. Fail again. Fail better." - Samuel Beckett Mariners Minors

by JY on Oct 29, 2010 3:35 PM PDT up reply actions  

I never had this issue

I took what I wanted every semester.

To improve, they should try to become the musical southern cal of the west. - bRuins Nation poster on the Stanford band.

by bluemax on Oct 29, 2010 3:29 PM PDT up reply actions  

I think this means we're both old.

The idea of a guidance counselor telling me which class to attend is completely foreign to me.

by Chris Hafner on Oct 29, 2010 3:26 PM PDT up reply actions  

This

We were raised in an elementary school where priority was on “self-esteem” and keeping everybody happy. We’re all winners goddammit!

When I was in the 1st grade, my elementary school decided to abandon standard math education in favor of “math strategies” wherein we were all supposed to develop our own way to do math.

Similar deal with spelling- they abandoned the traditional spelling test for some weird new idea. It didn’t work.

I got to the 3rd grade where I had an old, traditional teacher and she whipped us in line- she was shocked and appalled that by the third grade none of us could even do simple addition normally.

I learned to add an subtract by counting on my nose. What the fuck.

Determined, Jonesing Commentor

by Corco on Oct 29, 2010 3:35 PM PDT up reply actions  

I hear they've gone with story problems over abstract math.

But yeah, from third through fifth grade no one could/wanted to teach me math, and I had to teach myself using poorly written jr. high textbooks. Life could have been different if I’d had some actual instruction, not that I’m complaining.

"Ever tried? Ever failed? No matter. Try again. Fail again. Fail better." - Samuel Beckett Mariners Minors

by JY on Oct 29, 2010 3:37 PM PDT up reply actions  

Yeah I remember being self paced

in Math from third grade until HS. I complained that were were still doing the same stuff over and over in third grade so the teacher gave me a math book from the next grade level and that was the end of that.

To improve, they should try to become the musical southern cal of the west. - bRuins Nation poster on the Stanford band.

by bluemax on Oct 29, 2010 3:41 PM PDT up reply actions  

And this isn't even discussing the impact of helicopter parents.

My wife says that she has parents calling in to argue their kids’ academic cases and to manage their affairs. Some of these kids are graduate students – old enough to make the parental involvement illegal without the kids’ permission – but the parents would try to push right through that.

I have heard of parents that called up after job interviews to talk to the recruiter and to argue for why their kid is perfect for the job.

by Chris Hafner on Oct 29, 2010 3:39 PM PDT up reply actions  

And we wonder why people sometimes kill their parents.

"There! I just sold you for a cigarette! And I don't smoke!"

by Thingray on Oct 29, 2010 3:40 PM PDT up reply actions  

When I was a freshman we had parents weekend at UPS

The Friday before, my classes were full of parents sitting with their students.

They didn’t just sit there and watch, either. They ASKED QUESTIONS. It was really, really annoying.

Parents need to back off. My parents were that way when i was younger. When I was in the 7th grade I hadn’t turned in any assignments in one of my classes, and the teacher pulled me aside and said “Look, I’m really supposed to tell your parents about this, but turn in half of these assignments and I’ll give you full credit and this will stay between you and I. I don’t want to start World War III between your parents and myself.”

Fortunately, once I hit college they seemed to realize they needed to back off and now leave me to make my own decisions. If they were still on my ass I probably would have run away to Canada by now.

Determined, Jonesing Commentor

by Corco on Oct 29, 2010 3:43 PM PDT up reply actions  

It's a dichotomy.

Either you know what’s going on and don’t give a shit (admins, some instructors) or don’t know what’s going on and give entirely too much of a shit (parents)

"Ever tried? Ever failed? No matter. Try again. Fail again. Fail better." - Samuel Beckett Mariners Minors

by JY on Oct 29, 2010 3:43 PM PDT up reply actions  

This was essentially why I ended up dropping out of high school

I had enough credits to graduate at the start of my senior year, but they required X number of one type of credits and Y number of other types of credits. I had 3 extra classes worth of credits but they were trying to make me take other worthless classes just to fulfill the requirements. I dropped out of the 2nd semester and was told that I’d get my diploma if I just met what they wanted. I didn’t go, and my diploma was mailed to the house 3 years later

by tootthekazoo on Oct 29, 2010 4:42 PM PDT up reply actions  

Dude,

you can’t take auto shop five classes a day and claim enough credits to graduate.

"There! I just sold you for a cigarette! And I don't smoke!"

by Thingray on Oct 29, 2010 4:50 PM PDT up reply actions  

I also took wood shop

How do you think I ended up with a graduation plaque?

by tootthekazoo on Oct 29, 2010 4:54 PM PDT up reply actions  

Don't forget choir, because of all the chicks in that class.

"There! I just sold you for a cigarette! And I don't smoke!"

by Thingray on Oct 29, 2010 4:55 PM PDT up reply actions  

Heh, our HS started offering classes before and after school.

Just one or two subjects were available, but they didn’t realize if someone took advantage of all of it their 1st and 2nd years, they would be way out in front their 3rd and 4th years and have excess graduation credits by their senior year. Especially if you threw in the Phys Ed. exemption for taking music. Boom! Easiest senior year of all time.

by Kermit. on Oct 30, 2010 6:45 AM PDT up reply actions  

The marching band=PE exemption was cool

Though I still ended up taking soccer and softball senior year.

by yuniform on Nov 1, 2010 11:36 AM PDT up reply actions  

Huh

Mine encouraged me to take a year off. And find out what I wanted to do and pursue it.

by Scruffy Lefty on Oct 29, 2010 3:30 PM PDT up reply actions  

Private school?

Determined, Jonesing Commentor

by Corco on Oct 29, 2010 3:30 PM PDT up reply actions  

You have to understand this happened in 6th grade.

"There! I just sold you for a cigarette! And I don't smoke!"

by Thingray on Oct 29, 2010 3:33 PM PDT up reply actions  

Squalicum!

Sorry, I had friends who graduated the same year as you who used to tell me stories. You probably wouldn’t know them though.

"Ever tried? Ever failed? No matter. Try again. Fail again. Fail better." - Samuel Beckett Mariners Minors

by JY on Oct 29, 2010 3:38 PM PDT up reply actions  

Stories about the school.

Aaron Wilson and his older brother Jeremy were the two main ones that were there. The other one I knew was mostly running start.

"Ever tried? Ever failed? No matter. Try again. Fail again. Fail better." - Samuel Beckett Mariners Minors

by JY on Oct 29, 2010 3:54 PM PDT up reply actions  

My high school brought in somebody from DeVry to try to tell us these things

But he was referred to by teachers and counselor somewhat derogatorily as the “DeVry Guy” and that it was only an option if we "weren’t able to get into college.

Ridiculous

Determined, Jonesing Commentor

by Corco on Oct 29, 2010 2:55 PM PDT up reply actions  

My uncle is an electrician and makes shitton of money.

"Ever tried? Ever failed? No matter. Try again. Fail again. Fail better." - Samuel Beckett Mariners Minors

by JY on Oct 29, 2010 2:45 PM PDT up reply actions  

Everything -EVERYTHING- in compulsary education is geared towards getting kids into college.

When I was in high school my guidance counselors told me that any path that did not include college was a path towards failure, and that was ten years ago. It’s only gotten worse.

by Aaron Campeau on Oct 29, 2010 3:01 PM PDT up reply actions  

My counselor berated me because I told her

I was planning to go to a community college to save money. It’s direct-to-university or failure now.

by BrianL on Oct 29, 2010 3:03 PM PDT up reply actions  

UGH.

I saved so much money by going the CC route.

"Ever tried? Ever failed? No matter. Try again. Fail again. Fail better." - Samuel Beckett Mariners Minors

by JY on Oct 29, 2010 3:07 PM PDT up reply actions  

I really think the CC model should be encouraged, or even required

There’s so many good reasons to do it and so few reasons not to do it

Off the top of my head:

Good-
1) cost savings
2) chance to see if college is really the right route’
2a) chance to figure out what you want to do in college at a lower price
3) you get to transfer after two years minimizing the burnout you get with four straight years of college at the same school

Bad-
1) It’s kind of a pain to transfer credits sometimes?

Determined, Jonesing Commentor

by Corco on Oct 29, 2010 3:09 PM PDT up reply actions  

Transferring of credits has gotten astronomically better recently.

In my experience.

"Oh, the usual. I bowl. Drive around. The occasional acid flashback."

by the other side on Oct 29, 2010 3:11 PM PDT up reply actions  

Bad:

Some people need to get the hell away from their hometown/parents. You can still go to a CC this way, but it kind of negates a lot of the cost savings.

by Aaron Campeau on Oct 29, 2010 3:13 PM PDT up reply actions  

That's partially true depending on how far they need to get away

Somebody in Seattle could go to Spokane CC at the in-state rate though, right?

If I would have gone to CC (which in hindsight I wish I would have done), I could have gone to NIC which was 200 miles away or TVCC which was 100 miles away

Determined, Jonesing Commentor

by Corco on Oct 29, 2010 3:15 PM PDT up reply actions  

If you really need to get away

And the choice is going out of state to a 4 year school or a CC, I’d bet the CC is cheaper anyway.

Determined, Jonesing Commentor

by Corco on Oct 29, 2010 3:16 PM PDT up reply actions  

Community colleges offer better discounts to people who went to school in the area.

Then in-state is still cheaper than out-of-state though.

I once accused Robert of being Dewey N, because I didn't know it was Fogel. I suck with context clues.

by thehemogoblin on Oct 29, 2010 3:37 PM PDT up reply actions  

This is true in Oregon moreso than here

thanks to local levy funding down there (we don’t do that here).

by marc w on Oct 29, 2010 3:45 PM PDT up reply actions  

If community college costs the same regardless of where you are in the state, why stay at home?

(Except me. I really, really miss being at home, and it drives my mom nuts to live by herself. But I’m totally an exception.)

I once accused Robert of being Dewey N, because I didn't know it was Fogel. I suck with context clues.

by thehemogoblin on Oct 29, 2010 3:57 PM PDT up reply actions  

The 'Bad' side is often bad

because college guidance counselors aren’t any better than HS ones.

by marc w on Oct 29, 2010 3:15 PM PDT up reply actions  

My university advisor is fairly worthless

She’s also a professor, so advising is like 30th on her list of priorities.

Best just to take the time to read the entire catalog yourself, pick your own classes, and be prepared to justify your course selections

If I need to do anything complicated I just go over her head and straight to the registrar- that’s tended to be the easiest course of action

Determined, Jonesing Commentor

by Corco on Oct 29, 2010 3:19 PM PDT up reply actions  

Mine did!

I was told to take classes that wound up not going towards my transfer degree.

by BrianL on Oct 29, 2010 3:19 PM PDT up reply actions  

A good friend of my wife's got completely screwed by her advisor

She was set to do her internship, he told her that it was a great internship to take and that once she completed the requisite number of hours she’d be all set. She moved from Arizona to Mountlake Terrace, started her internship and took on a part time job to pay the bills, and then found out after about 4 months that the internship would not give her credit

by tootthekazoo on Oct 29, 2010 4:52 PM PDT up reply actions  

So now where does she stand?

Did she go back to AZ, or is she stuck up here?

"There! I just sold you for a cigarette! And I don't smoke!"

by Thingray on Oct 29, 2010 4:54 PM PDT up reply actions  

She's better off here anyway, AZ sucks.

But tell her to watch out for Kermit and the Russian mob.

"There! I just sold you for a cigarette! And I don't smoke!"

by Thingray on Oct 29, 2010 4:56 PM PDT up reply actions  

The ones that get me are when they give students wrong information.

No information at least allows a bright student to dig into it and get it right.

Actively telling people that X/Y/Z will transfer when they won’t… that’s annoying. And costly.

by marc w on Oct 29, 2010 3:26 PM PDT up reply actions  

I disagree

I went to a CC for awhile to make up credits and NONE of the classes I took was comparable to anything I took at USC. I took History, CS, Math and Physics all at Pierce Lakewood and NONE of those classes was equivalent.

I honestly felt bad for my classmates because they were being set up to fail at the university level.

To improve, they should try to become the musical southern cal of the west. - bRuins Nation poster on the Stanford band.

by bluemax on Oct 29, 2010 3:31 PM PDT up reply actions  

Bad:

Science facilities

I don’t know many physical science majors who make the jump successfully after 2 years. At least at my school, labwork is critical, and they come in with no experience on the most basic of techniques.

by Fuckmikereilly on Oct 29, 2010 3:46 PM PDT up reply actions  

I'm not sure people really think about it that rationally.

There is a shortage of qualified automotive technicians, both because you have to be much more technically and electronically minded than in the past and because there is such a stigma against trades. So even as the bar is raised in terms of who can perform the high-end work, the pool is shrinking. I know of master techs in major markets who make $80K/year, but still the talent pool is drying up. The people I’ve discussed this with in the automotive world blame it on parents and how they shape their kids’ expectations.

I’d be willing to bet that a lot of people who grouse about how much they have to pay their electrician would still tell their kids they need to go to college. Part of it might be the perception of stability with a larger company (ha!), or that they don’t want to tell friends that their kid is a plumber. But it really could be just about any reason – parents are biased about their kids going into the trades. I’m wondering if this job crunch might reverse that.

by Chris Hafner on Oct 29, 2010 3:04 PM PDT up reply actions  

Nothing at all.

If you need electrical work right now, you can get it done dirt cheap. Which is mainly what the company I’m working for is taking advantage of.

by BigR on Oct 29, 2010 3:56 PM PDT up reply actions  

It's definitely a good time to be friends with an electrician

A good friend of the family is a journeyman and he has done some stuff for us the last year or two for pennies on the dollar because he’s bored

by tootthekazoo on Oct 29, 2010 4:57 PM PDT up reply actions  

When I first transferred to the University of Wyoming they made me take freshman English despite being a junior

Holy shit. The number of people who couldn’t write at even a basic level was fucking scary.

HOW DO THESE PEOPLE GET INTO COLLEGE?

Determined, Jonesing Commentor

by Corco on Oct 29, 2010 2:35 PM PDT up reply actions  

That's the question right there...

"There! I just sold you for a cigarette! And I don't smoke!"

by Thingray on Oct 29, 2010 2:39 PM PDT up reply actions  

Because we don't demand much critical writing/reading ability anymore.

"Ever tried? Ever failed? No matter. Try again. Fail again. Fail better." - Samuel Beckett Mariners Minors

by JY on Oct 29, 2010 2:43 PM PDT up reply actions  

This is true, and it's incredibly sad.

By the way, this whole subthread just makes me appreciate LL even more.

by Chris Hafner on Oct 29, 2010 3:05 PM PDT up reply actions  

Totally.

I wish CapSea were around today to throw his two cents in, but yet, we’re the intelligent rebels.

"Ever tried? Ever failed? No matter. Try again. Fail again. Fail better." - Samuel Beckett Mariners Minors

by JY on Oct 29, 2010 3:08 PM PDT up reply actions   2 recs

Speculation:

It’s probably the same thing that we’ve talked about before w/r/t increased mobility leading to more superficial interactions/limited tolerance of others. Intelligence can be demanding. If you don’t want disagreement (and most people don’t) you’re going to hang out with people around your level, so there’s clustering, and each side grows more and more out of touch with the other.

"Ever tried? Ever failed? No matter. Try again. Fail again. Fail better." - Samuel Beckett Mariners Minors

by JY on Oct 29, 2010 8:25 PM PDT up reply actions   1 recs

I don't necessarily agree.

But I don’t have a good answer either. One theory I have is that it’s not difficult anymore to get a degree and find a job in a career that was originally reserved for those of intelligence. Computer science, networking, engineering – what was once limited to those with above average intelligence is now an easy field of study at most universities, with the technologies involved becoming more and more user friendly. That allows those that would normally have gone into manual labor find high paying careers and achieving above average success.

At the same time, most intelligent people are starting to lean towards the careers they like, whether or not they are high paying, simply because the jobs that do pay well now require you work someplace surrounded by idiots. In the end, what most people still use to judge someone’s intelligence (career, money, etc.) are no longer applicable, and people that do so aren’t realizing it.

But really, I have no idea. That’s just one of many thoughts I’ve had recently on the subject.

...and now I'm here

by CapSea on Oct 29, 2010 8:48 PM PDT up reply actions  

I'm worried this isn't clear.

Basically what I’m saying is that people think they value intelligence, but the qualities they use to tell if someone is intelligent don’t accurately reflect actual intellect.

...and now I'm here

by CapSea on Oct 29, 2010 8:52 PM PDT up reply actions  

Right, right, I get what you're saying then.

It took me a second. It could well be that as well, but you’re also running certain assumptions with the cause and effect on group B, or how people judge intelligence. It’s probably an equally sound theory but both ideas we’re presenting are a pain in the ass to try to prove.

"Ever tried? Ever failed? No matter. Try again. Fail again. Fail better." - Samuel Beckett Mariners Minors

by JY on Oct 29, 2010 9:04 PM PDT up reply actions  

There are also several questions to answer first

Are people getting stupider, or does the Internet just make the stupid people seem more relevant. Also, does that prevalence of these stupid people over the entirety of the Internet get most normal people so used to interacting with stupid people that they ultimately come to respect them more than they should? Also, IS THE KID ON HIS WAY HOME???

...and now I'm here

by CapSea on Oct 29, 2010 9:12 PM PDT up reply actions  

On the prevalence of stupid people

I’m starting to question why so many websites have commenting, and why I’m so drawn to read comments. (I’m not talking about LL, but, say ESPN or most unmoderated news sites.)
Why do the content providers allow random people to throw their stuff up just below their professional product? Is it just the illusion of creating a dialogue?
Letters to the editor seemed like a pretty good format.

by yuniform on Oct 29, 2010 9:16 PM PDT up reply actions  

Here are several reasons:

1) Many people believe their opinion on some topic they have no expertise in is important.
2) Many other people don’t like the idea that someone is wrong on the Internet.
3) Most people don’t read the entirety of any article without a reason. Commenting gives them a reason, thereby keeping them on the site longer.
4) Commenters are often under the opinion that their input is read by the site author, and appreciated. That creates a one sided bond between the commenter and the author, and that bond will have them come back.
5) Same with commenters and other commenters. See: Lookout Landing.

Also, while less common, there are much looser copyright laws when something is brought up for open discussion rather than posted for monetary gain. That reason is far less common/important but if you ever wondered why you see random shit with comments open, that’s often why.

...and now I'm here

by CapSea on Oct 29, 2010 9:23 PM PDT up reply actions  

Reading the whole article certainly isn' prerequisite for commenting though.

No sir.

"Ever tried? Ever failed? No matter. Try again. Fail again. Fail better." - Samuel Beckett Mariners Minors

by JY on Oct 29, 2010 9:29 PM PDT up reply actions  

I hadn't considered #3. Thanks.

Of course, 1 and 2 create too much garbage.

by yuniform on Oct 29, 2010 9:33 PM PDT up reply actions  

4 and 5 are most important.

Jeff and Matthew are great writers. How much time do you think you’d spend on this site without the commenters? 5, maybe 10 minutes max? You read the posts, you’re done. Here there is interaction, which creates a bond/community, which has you come back.

...and now I'm here

by CapSea on Oct 29, 2010 10:06 PM PDT up reply actions  

Yes, but many, many similar sites don't have anything close to the moderated comments.

I read the posts here for about a year before I got a username or started commenting.

by yuniform on Oct 29, 2010 10:10 PM PDT up reply actions  

You're arguing quality.

I’m not. I’m arguing that they want people to come back, and that’s how they get it. Whether the people are retarded or brilliant is irrelevant to getting at least someone to come back.

...and now I'm here

by CapSea on Oct 29, 2010 10:14 PM PDT up reply actions  

To an extent.

That there is a quality, thoughtful readership here allows Jeff and Matthew to pick the brains of the audience. Good luck trying to get anything informative from the ESPN comment sections, for instance.

I once accused Robert of being Dewey N, because I didn't know it was Fogel. I suck with context clues.

by thehemogoblin on Oct 29, 2010 10:18 PM PDT up reply actions  

You are giving us way too much credit.

Jeff and Matthew may like some of us, but I doubt it has much effect on their creative processes.

...and now I'm here

by CapSea on Oct 29, 2010 10:38 PM PDT up reply actions  

I'm just saying there's a benefit for them having an informed readership.

I once accused Robert of being Dewey N, because I didn't know it was Fogel. I suck with context clues.

by thehemogoblin on Oct 29, 2010 11:37 PM PDT up reply actions  

I can probably offer at some of those questions.

The prevalence of dumb on the internet is probably in part due to the Eternal September phenomenon. [Personally, my fear is that LL could go Eternal September on us, and likely would have had the M’s been successful this season, but that’s another matter]

Presentation is another issue. To get noticed on the internet, you make strong statements. They spark controversy and draw in followers and revenue, so the inclination is not so much to post a well-reasoned opinion as a bold one and this gets mistaken for good rhetoric.

We’re fortunate in that some good stuff does manage to stand out and draw in a readership regardless, but it’s a problem if you don’t know how to look for that in the first place.

"Ever tried? Ever failed? No matter. Try again. Fail again. Fail better." - Samuel Beckett Mariners Minors

by JY on Oct 29, 2010 9:22 PM PDT up reply actions   3 recs

Hey Jay, you're awesome.

I sometimes find myself engaged in combat with hobos.

by kevin_ess on Oct 30, 2010 12:16 AM PDT up reply actions  

Aw shucks.

"Ever tried? Ever failed? No matter. Try again. Fail again. Fail better." - Samuel Beckett Mariners Minors

by JY on Oct 30, 2010 11:28 AM PDT up reply actions  

LOL

"Ever tried? Ever failed? No matter. Try again. Fail again. Fail better." - Samuel Beckett Mariners Minors

by JY on Oct 29, 2010 3:08 PM PDT up reply actions  

your so right.

i would of said the same thing.

...and now I'm here

by CapSea on Oct 29, 2010 4:22 PM PDT up reply actions  

GAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAH!!!!!!!!

I once accused Robert of being Dewey N, because I didn't know it was Fogel. I suck with context clues.

by thehemogoblin on Oct 29, 2010 4:26 PM PDT up reply actions  

These are actual reviews from a buddy of mine on Yelp.
This was a nice place to have a drink at. Friendly services and just place nice.

So I ordered the stuff chicken with goat cheese and wrapped with Prosciutto. The combination was interesting, but the out come was disappointing. The chicken was dry, the sauce that was used didn’t match with the main item. Can’t figure out what was in the sauce but it’s just didn’t blend right with the chicken and stuff, the mashed potatoes was good tho.
Feels like starbuck but it’s not ha! I don’t drink coffee so can’t tell you if it’s better than others but I like it and this is my review! Great and friendly service and free wifi but that’s typical.
This I must say is one of the best Sushi place I have been to. Their Sashimi are very frash especially the spicy tuna and salmon. The tuna was very soft and the sauce that came with it was a mix of spicy sauce that you would get in a tuna roll but with a little sweetness to it. I can’t figure out exactly what’s in the sauce. The service over was not bad, young servers and chefs. I always have to at least eat here when I am in Canada.

I like the guy, but dude… Some English professor needs to be fired.

...and now I'm here

by CapSea on Oct 29, 2010 4:38 PM PDT up reply actions  

Oh, buddy. That's brutal. Bad grammar is such a turn-off for me. I couldn't read all of that.

I once accused Robert of being Dewey N, because I didn't know it was Fogel. I suck with context clues.

by thehemogoblin on Oct 29, 2010 4:41 PM PDT up reply actions  

I want to become an Englisnh teacher and explain how poor spelling and grammar can actually make you dumber.

This guy I know once asked me how he can improve his grammar. I told him he should start by capitalizing his Facebook status updates correctly. That one change has improved his overall writing skills by some 1000%.

...and now I'm here

by CapSea on Oct 29, 2010 4:53 PM PDT up reply actions   2 recs

My American Literature professor did that to me this term.

I haven’t cracked that book yet because I haven’t had the time, so I’m going to have to read it with a raging hangover Sunday and Monday.

I once accused Robert of being Dewey N, because I didn't know it was Fogel. I suck with context clues.

by thehemogoblin on Oct 29, 2010 5:15 PM PDT up reply actions  

And yet, prosciutto was spelled correctly.

"Ever tried? Ever failed? No matter. Try again. Fail again. Fail better." - Samuel Beckett Mariners Minors

by JY on Oct 29, 2010 4:50 PM PDT up reply actions  

See, now we're just looking for the easy outs.

"Ever tried? Ever failed? No matter. Try again. Fail again. Fail better." - Samuel Beckett Mariners Minors

by JY on Oct 29, 2010 4:54 PM PDT up reply actions  

Now I am sad.

"Ever tried? Ever failed? No matter. Try again. Fail again. Fail better." - Samuel Beckett Mariners Minors

by JY on Oct 29, 2010 5:00 PM PDT up reply actions  

I'm smiling.

Mostly because someone who doesn’t drink coffee wanted to review a coffee shop he used free wifi in but at least its “Feels like starbuck but its not ha!”

by Kenneth Arthur on Oct 29, 2010 5:03 PM PDT up reply actions  

Yeah that made me smile.

"Ever tried? Ever failed? No matter. Try again. Fail again. Fail better." - Samuel Beckett Mariners Minors

by JY on Oct 29, 2010 5:05 PM PDT up reply actions  

I actually like the dude quite a bit. He's a good friend of mine.

But those reviews are terrible, and often remind me that even good people can ruin the Internet.

...and now I'm here

by CapSea on Oct 29, 2010 7:11 PM PDT up reply actions  

Texting has ruined our children.

"There! I just sold you for a cigarette! And I don't smoke!"

by Thingray on Oct 29, 2010 4:50 PM PDT up reply actions  

This reminds me of one of my favorite reviews. By the way, this was the worst Mexican restaurant I've ever been to.
THE BOMBEST MEXICAN FOOD EVER!!!!!!!!!!!!!…‎‎ THE BESTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTT EVERRRRRRRRRRRRRRR I MEAN EVER ….I LOVEEEEEEEEEEE THE CHEESE ENCHILLIDASSSS OMG ARE YOU TALKING ABOUT GOOD AND IT IS SO AUTHENTIC BUT THE CHIPS AND SALSA SHIT ON EL TORITO……AHHAHAHAA AND EVERYTHING IS BOMB IF U HAVENT TRIED IT SUCKS TO BE YOU…LOL..

by Kenneth Arthur on Oct 29, 2010 4:57 PM PDT up reply actions  

What I love about these types of things is the kind of work people think they need to put in to be credible.

I used to review books on Facebook for shits and type up ~500-1000 words on them and then the rest of the page could be nine responses rarely exceeding two words.

"Ever tried? Ever failed? No matter. Try again. Fail again. Fail better." - Samuel Beckett Mariners Minors

by JY on Oct 29, 2010 5:03 PM PDT up reply actions  

Most of the people in "Yelp Elite Seattle" barely take 5 seconds out of their day to write out the thoughts of the places they review.

Friend of mine met one of the most prolific and well known reviewers on the site. Not only are her reviews short, but apparently she goes into places, looks around for a second, leaves, and then comes home and reviews it as though she’s had some sort of actual experience there.

I hate people.

...and now I'm here

by CapSea on Oct 29, 2010 7:07 PM PDT up reply actions  

I keep at least four of my friends in college just by editing their papers.

It’s not as if these people are unintelligent, it’s just that they don’t understand the way the English language works.

I once accused Robert of being Dewey N, because I didn't know it was Fogel. I suck with context clues.

by thehemogoblin on Oct 29, 2010 3:23 PM PDT up reply actions  

I'm getting to the point where I'm sick of doing that

I’m in a fairly complicated spatial modeling course right now and I’ll say that I am currently doing significantly better in there than a few of my classmates (who I would consider friends) , and when they come asking for help I’m getting to the point where I just ignore them.

I don’t have time to fix lines of code for you and you’re essentially asking me to commit academic dishonesty. I never had a problem with that before, but suddenly I do.

Determined, Jonesing Commentor

by Corco on Oct 29, 2010 3:27 PM PDT up reply actions  

I've had people try to bribe me into writing papers regularly.

No thank you.

"Ever tried? Ever failed? No matter. Try again. Fail again. Fail better." - Samuel Beckett Mariners Minors

by JY on Oct 29, 2010 3:39 PM PDT up reply actions  

I never write papers for people, ever. I will edit, but not write.

That’s truly academic dishonesty. And yes, I’ve been offered $50 or more to do it.

I once accused Robert of being Dewey N, because I didn't know it was Fogel. I suck with context clues.

by thehemogoblin on Oct 29, 2010 3:52 PM PDT up reply actions  

I got $70 offered once, then it was bumped to $100.

Even if I didn’t have the qualms with it, my writing style has certain idiosyncrasies that would lead me to getting found out and expelled but quick.

"Ever tried? Ever failed? No matter. Try again. Fail again. Fail better." - Samuel Beckett Mariners Minors

by JY on Oct 29, 2010 3:55 PM PDT up reply actions  

The joke is $50 per page, but I don't think I'd ever accept it.

My obsessive correction of compound modifiers and my two-sentence paragraphs would get me busted so fast that it wouldn’t be worth it anyway.

I once accused Robert of being Dewey N, because I didn't know it was Fogel. I suck with context clues.

by thehemogoblin on Oct 29, 2010 4:03 PM PDT up reply actions  

On a similar note

A couple weeks ago we all had to write a block of Python code that did a certain thing for the spatial modeling class, and there were dozens of possible ways to do whatever it was.

We were then to post the code file to the course website where everyone can access it.

One of my classmates (who is also a friend) copied and pasted my code and turned in exactly the same thing with a few variable names redefined, sat down in class next to me and said “I couldn’t figure it out so I copied and pasted your code. If the professor asks just say we worked together.”

The professor never asked, but this guy never got in any sort of trouble. What’s the correct course of action there?

Determined, Jonesing Commentor

by Corco on Oct 29, 2010 4:00 PM PDT up reply actions  

I don't think you can raise concerns about the format without implicating someone.

At least not this semester.

"Ever tried? Ever failed? No matter. Try again. Fail again. Fail better." - Samuel Beckett Mariners Minors

by JY on Oct 29, 2010 4:04 PM PDT up reply actions  

Just ask him not to do it again, because it risks getting both of you in significant trouble.

If you explain that you’re not willing to take that risk, your friend will hopefully respect that. It’s a tough scenario and it’s a fine line to walk, but that’s why I generally try not to take classes with friends. (That, and it gets really distracting for me when I’m talking with a friend instead of paying attention during a lecture.)

I once accused Robert of being Dewey N, because I didn't know it was Fogel. I suck with context clues.

by thehemogoblin on Oct 29, 2010 4:05 PM PDT up reply actions  

The worst thing about his brand of bullshit here, is that he notified you.

What a dumbass. Here’s my beef with people that don’t like tattle tales. They forget that when you’re an adult, having knowledge of a situation makes you complicit.

So people in the wrong tend to act like you’d be an asshole for turning them in. What you (me in this scenario) are being asked to do is to trust a person who has already demonstrated they have self defined moral lines that make them exempt from standard rules.

If they get caught, you are trusting them not to say “but so and so saw me do X and didn’t say anything so I thought it was ok.” Because every once in awhile this actually gets them off the hook, but typically means you’re in a for a reaming.

So if the son of a bitch doing wrong wants to be less of an asshole, he needs to keep his wrongdoings to himself. Otherwise I’ve learned to develop a righteous case of anger and ride that straight to whomever is in charge. Cover your own ass, because nobody is going to cover it for you. Especially this guy, he’s not doing you any favors here.

by Kermit. on Oct 30, 2010 7:32 AM PDT up reply actions   2 recs

I don't really care. I'm not rewriting their concepts, I'm just making it coherent.

Also, I’m one of the head copy editors for the school paper on the side, so I do this for a living. I’m really efficient at fixing stories and papers, and I offer my services in exchange for dinner. It’s a pretty good deal, and it might keep you from getting burnt out.

I once accused Robert of being Dewey N, because I didn't know it was Fogel. I suck with context clues.

by thehemogoblin on Oct 29, 2010 3:40 PM PDT up reply actions  

My sophomore level business communications was terribly easy.

I’m not sure how you can be a native English speaker and not understand most of it intuitively. But maybe that’s just me.

by Mariner John on Oct 29, 2010 2:41 PM PDT up reply actions  

I don't know about that.

Russian history majors have their uses.

But yeah, there does seem to be a weird double standard for having A degree but not necessarily a RELEVANT degree.

"Ever tried? Ever failed? No matter. Try again. Fail again. Fail better." - Samuel Beckett Mariners Minors

by JY on Oct 29, 2010 2:03 PM PDT up reply actions  

My friend has a degree in Russian History.

He imports motorcycles and keyboards and things like that from Japan. He didn’t qualify for the job unless he had a degree in something, it didn’t matter what the degree was. Even he thought it was BS.

"There! I just sold you for a cigarette! And I don't smoke!"

by Thingray on Oct 29, 2010 2:09 PM PDT up reply actions  

Still, I can kind of see the point made.

In certain obscure fields, it demonstrates you aren’t afraid to get into the unknown and figure it out for what it is. I wouldn’t outright put a thumb on the scale for it, but it’s something that I’d be intrigued by.

"Ever tried? Ever failed? No matter. Try again. Fail again. Fail better." - Samuel Beckett Mariners Minors

by JY on Oct 29, 2010 2:21 PM PDT up reply actions  

I see where the degree shows that you are willing and able to learn.

But I still don’t understand why it would ever be a requirement for any entry level job, or why it should mean you make more than someone else with the exact same job skills.

"There! I just sold you for a cigarette! And I don't smoke!"

by Thingray on Oct 29, 2010 2:23 PM PDT up reply actions  

Although he seems like more of a dick in this new season.

I think he’s getting jaded.

"There! I just sold you for a cigarette! And I don't smoke!"

by Thingray on Oct 29, 2010 2:01 PM PDT up reply actions  

He's always been kind of a dick.

But it’s in the joking way. Maybe it’s less so this season as I haven’t seen any of it yet.

by Mariner John on Oct 29, 2010 2:07 PM PDT up reply actions  

It could have just been one episode, who knows...

"There! I just sold you for a cigarette! And I don't smoke!"

by Thingray on Oct 29, 2010 2:09 PM PDT up reply actions  

If you've ever seen his QVC work, you know this is true.

Basically he tried his damnedest to get fired.

You! Cake or death?

by Torrid on Oct 29, 2010 3:20 PM PDT up reply actions  

Wouldn't you, if you were forced to go on QVC?

"There! I just sold you for a cigarette! And I don't smoke!"

by Thingray on Oct 29, 2010 3:21 PM PDT up reply actions  

Rawr.

You! Cake or death?

by Torrid on Oct 29, 2010 3:20 PM PDT up reply actions  

He talked about this in an interview I read of him in an airline magazine

he’s pretty passionate about the subject and I think he has a point on some of it.

To improve, they should try to become the musical southern cal of the west. - bRuins Nation poster on the Stanford band.

by bluemax on Oct 29, 2010 2:28 PM PDT up reply actions  

I think they should require everyone who wants to go to college to spend a year picking fruit or otherwise doing manual labor on a farm

before they can be admitted.

If nothing else, that will motivate them to spend their time in college more wisely- actually learning instead of just attending classes because they think they’re supposed to

Determined, Jonesing Commentor

by Corco on Oct 29, 2010 4:41 PM PDT up reply actions  

I spent a summer picking garlic and I worked through high school at a convenience store and as an auto parts salesman.

Those jobs have given me all the motivation I ever needed to keep my ass in school and get myself a cushy desk job when I get out of here.

I once accused Robert of being Dewey N, because I didn't know it was Fogel. I suck with context clues.

by thehemogoblin on Oct 29, 2010 4:46 PM PDT up reply actions  

I have a cushy desk job and never finished community college.

I also never picked fruit, although I did work at Arby’s for two years.

"There! I just sold you for a cigarette! And I don't smoke!"

by Thingray on Oct 29, 2010 4:52 PM PDT up reply actions  

I'd take any old bullshit job for that.

It took years of food service before I got my act together and realized I probably should’ve given a shit sooner.

"Ever tried? Ever failed? No matter. Try again. Fail again. Fail better." - Samuel Beckett Mariners Minors

by JY on Oct 29, 2010 4:51 PM PDT up reply actions  

No way would I ever do food service.

I’ve never heard anything good about it, including from my parents, who both spent a lot of time in the field.

I once accused Robert of being Dewey N, because I didn't know it was Fogel. I suck with context clues.

by thehemogoblin on Oct 29, 2010 5:19 PM PDT up reply actions  

That's why it's soooo good

Spend exhausting, unappreciated hours working with unreasonable people and then watch as the people whose shifts you were covering get promoted over you because by golly they have energy and can work faster.

"Ever tried? Ever failed? No matter. Try again. Fail again. Fail better." - Samuel Beckett Mariners Minors

by JY on Oct 29, 2010 5:22 PM PDT up reply actions  

Amen to this.

I went to college immediately after high school because it was the next logical step. I certainly learned things and enjoyed the experience, but I didn’t take it anywhere close to as seriously as I should have.

by Chris Hafner on Oct 29, 2010 4:52 PM PDT up reply actions  

I read a New York Times article about adolescence and the basic stages of life being 3-4 years behind what the previous generation was.

For logical reasons, we do stuff later in life, we learn things later in life, but we keep going to college at 18 because its “logical” In reality, most 18 year old ARENT ready for that and are wasting thousands of dollars.

Also, I read a New York Times article. I wouldn’t have done that at 18.

by Kenneth Arthur on Oct 29, 2010 5:00 PM PDT up reply actions  

That's hard to work around though.

Children are wired to be awake and functioning earlier in the day, but no one wants to leave little kids alone to go to school when it’s dark outside, so teens have to take one for the team.

"Ever tried? Ever failed? No matter. Try again. Fail again. Fail better." - Samuel Beckett Mariners Minors

by JY on Oct 29, 2010 5:27 PM PDT up reply actions  

It really is amazing how unformed the adolescent brain is

“Regions that control sensory and motor skills mature first, becoming more specialized and efficient. The prefrontal cortex, responsible for judgment and impulse control, matures last. Indeed, the prefrontal cortex isn’t “done” until the early 20s—and sometimes even later in men. Meantime, the brain’s white matter, which acts as the cabling connecting brain parts, becomes thicker and better able to transmit signals quickly. Recent research shows that this myelination process of white matter continues well past adolescence, perhaps even into middle age."

by msb on Oct 29, 2010 5:34 PM PDT up reply actions  

This would be the counterargument to the adolescence/life stages argument.

Not that we shouldn’t try in some way, but…

"Ever tried? Ever failed? No matter. Try again. Fail again. Fail better." - Samuel Beckett Mariners Minors

by JY on Oct 29, 2010 5:41 PM PDT up reply actions  

I remember the halcyon days of yore when I would get out of bed at 6 a.m.

I got out of bed at 4:30 a.m. Thursday to cover a club crew practice, and it felt as if someone had beaten me with a baseball bat for the next three days. Once you pass age 12, you’re just not wired to be up early anymore.

I once accused Robert of being Dewey N, because I didn't know it was Fogel. I suck with context clues.

by thehemogoblin on Oct 29, 2010 5:35 PM PDT up reply actions  

I took until 16 and haven't seen more than a few sunrises since.

"Ever tried? Ever failed? No matter. Try again. Fail again. Fail better." - Samuel Beckett Mariners Minors

by JY on Oct 29, 2010 5:40 PM PDT up reply actions  

I'm more likely to see a sunrise on the back end of my day than on the front end.

I once accused Robert of being Dewey N, because I didn't know it was Fogel. I suck with context clues.

by thehemogoblin on Oct 29, 2010 5:41 PM PDT up reply actions   1 recs

Been there, friend.

"Ever tried? Ever failed? No matter. Try again. Fail again. Fail better." - Samuel Beckett Mariners Minors

by JY on Oct 29, 2010 5:42 PM PDT up reply actions  

College + late-night job. It's such a beautiful thing.

But I really don’t understand why my body has changed so much from wanting to be up early to no longer wanting to do it. I used to enjoy being up early, but now I can rarely if ever make it to bed before midnight.

I once accused Robert of being Dewey N, because I didn't know it was Fogel. I suck with context clues.

by thehemogoblin on Oct 29, 2010 5:44 PM PDT up reply actions  

I used to wake up at 5:30 AM and watch TV every morning

The worst now is when I have to get up at 3:30 AM to catch an 8 AM flight out of Denver I always get stuck on.

Dear God that’s brutal. I usually set both alarms on my main alarm clock starting at three, then my cell phone, then a third alarm clock to go off in 7 minute intervals. The first one I always say “What the fuck? No, there couldn’t be a reason I’m getting up this early” and shut it off. The second one I’m like “Whoa, there must be a reason the alarm keeps going off” but shut it off anyway. By the time the third one goes off I finally realize I have to go to the airport, and once the fourth one goes off 28 minutes later I’m finally quasi-ready to get out of bed

Determined, Jonesing Commentor

by Corco on Oct 29, 2010 5:47 PM PDT up reply actions  

That was one bitchin subthread.

"Oh, the usual. I bowl. Drive around. The occasional acid flashback."

by the other side on Oct 29, 2010 8:33 PM PDT up reply actions  

It was rather interesting to see the whole lot of us get into intense debate for a few hours.

"Ever tried? Ever failed? No matter. Try again. Fail again. Fail better." - Samuel Beckett Mariners Minors

by JY on Oct 29, 2010 9:06 PM PDT up reply actions  

I kinda stayed out

as one of the kids who went to, and loved, a liberal arts college education. I’ve also thought about going back to school to become a high school guidance counselor. Solely to crush the dreams of high school kids, of course.

by yuniform on Oct 29, 2010 9:11 PM PDT up reply actions  

This commenter got a degree in psychology. One that I can use to do nothing good.

College has a number of benefits that shouldn’t be ignored. I think this subthread was more of a discussion of its mst glaring weaknesses.

...and now I'm here

by CapSea on Oct 29, 2010 9:14 PM PDT up reply actions  

Going back to the link at the top of the subthread ...
There is nothing wrong with working in an office. There is nothing wrong with getting a college degree. The flaw in our character is our insistence on separating blue-collar jobs from white-collar jobs, and encouraging one form of education over another. Why do we value one above the other, when our future depends upon both? That’s our blind spot.

by BrianL on Oct 29, 2010 9:36 PM PDT up reply actions  

That's not a lesser viewpoint though.

I mean, don’t misconstrue us, because there are a lot of people here who did the liberal arts thing too. Marc was an English major, I’m going to have my fancy-ass degree with a couple of equally useless fields, and a large part of why I was drawn to my college was in that it offered a good foundation in classical western thinking in literature and philosophy (sadly I was only able to partake in the former). But, my dad was working class, and my sensibilities are tinged by that, so even though I’ve made peace with my impractical piece of paper I also have to wrestle with it a bit to see what it’s worth.

"Ever tried? Ever failed? No matter. Try again. Fail again. Fail better." - Samuel Beckett Mariners Minors

by JY on Oct 29, 2010 9:27 PM PDT up reply actions  

Yeah, I know.

I was gone during most of the subthread and didn’t feel like arguing hashed over points. Even if it doesn’t result in an obvious career, I think that degree chasing can have a formative, eye-opening experience. But looking down on the people who take wood shop hasn’t been acceptable since Bender pointed it out to Anthony Michael Hall.

by yuniform on Oct 29, 2010 9:41 PM PDT up reply actions  

Dragging this out a bit longer...

I like how the official use of xtranormal these days has become shit like this.

So You Want to Get a PhD in the Humanities
Don’t Go to Law School

"Ever tried? Ever failed? No matter. Try again. Fail again. Fail better." - Samuel Beckett Mariners Minors

by JY on Oct 30, 2010 10:58 AM PDT up reply actions  

All the various topics that were kicked off by this comment are incredible.

It really reminds how much I appreciate and respect the LL community and these OT threads.

by Kermit. on Oct 30, 2010 11:20 AM PDT up reply actions  

Since there has been a lot of talk about pets..

Anyone with a golden retriever know how to deal with ALL OF THE FUCKING HAIR!?

He is an inside dog so I hear they shed more because of that. But I was wondering if anyone had any tricks that I might not have heard about.

by d0nkey on Oct 29, 2010 12:33 PM PDT reply actions  

I don't have dogs but I do have cats that shed more hair than they seem to have

and really, the only thing for it is constant vacuuming – like every two days or so. Or you could just shave your dog completely bald.

by pdb on Oct 29, 2010 12:35 PM PDT up reply actions  

And constant brushing.

You might also check with your pet store or vet, sometimes diet and other things can affect how much a pet will actually shed. Personally, I just live my life covered in cat hair, no matter what I try to do to get rid of it.

"There! I just sold you for a cigarette! And I don't smoke!"

by Thingray on Oct 29, 2010 12:40 PM PDT up reply actions  

No answer.

My dog is half bordie collie and half golden and the hair is so annoying. Vacuum a lot. Brush a lot. Wash regularly. I shave my dog during the summer to help with that also.

by Sec 108 on Oct 29, 2010 12:44 PM PDT up reply actions  

That's what Jabu is?

"There! I just sold you for a cigarette! And I don't smoke!"

by Thingray on Oct 29, 2010 12:47 PM PDT up reply actions  

Fur coats.

"There! I just sold you for a cigarette! And I don't smoke!"

by Thingray on Oct 29, 2010 2:35 PM PDT up reply actions   1 recs

I'm aware of that.

In fact, I think I actually mentioned that in an earlier post.

"There! I just sold you for a cigarette! And I don't smoke!"

by Thingray on Oct 29, 2010 2:40 PM PDT up reply actions  

Ha, nice.

General rule is more protein- so buy the dog real food (ie not Purina, Pedigree, Iams, or…shockingly…Hills Science Diet).

Determined, Jonesing Commentor

by Corco on Oct 29, 2010 2:41 PM PDT up reply actions  

Which, side divergence dog food PSA

Ingredients in Dog Chow:
Whole grain corn, poultry by-product meal, corn gluten meal, animal fat preserved with mixed-tocopherols (form of Vitamin E), meat and bone meal, brewers rice, soybean meal, whole grain wheat, egg and chicken flavor, animal digest, salt

Ingredients in the highly amped (and highly marked up) “Healthy” Purina Beneful
Ground yellow corn, chicken by-product meal, corn gluten meal, whole wheat flour, animal fat preserved with mixed-tocopherols (form of Vitamin E), rice flour, beef, soy flour, sugar, propylene glycol, meat and bone meal, tricalcium phosphate, phosphoric acid, salt, water, animal digest, sorbic acid (a preservative), potassium chloride, dried carrots, dried peas

Ingredients in the even more overpriced Hills Science Diet
Ground Whole Grain Corn, Chicken By-Product Meal, Animal Fat (preserved with mixed tocopherols and citric acid), Dried Beet Pulp, Soybean Oil, Dried Egg Product, Flaxseed, Potassium Chloride, Iodized Salt, Choline Chloride, vitamins (L-Ascorbyl-2-Polyphosphate (source of vitamin C), Vitamin E Supplement, Niacin, Thiamine Mononitrate, Vitamin A Supplement, Calcium Pantothenate, Biotin, Vitamin B12 Supplement, Pyridoxine Hydrochloride, Riboflavin, Folic Acid, Vitamin D3 Supplement), Vitamin E Supplement, minerals (Ferrous Sulfate, Zinc Oxide, Copper Sulfate, Manganous Oxide, Calcium Iodate, Sodium Selenite), preserved with Mixed Tocopherols and Citric Acid, Beta-Carotene, Rosemary Extract.

Ingredients in the similarly priced Canidae dog food
Chicken meal, turkey meal, lamb meal, brown rice, white rice, rice bran, peas, potatoes, oatmeal, cracked pearled barley, chicken fat (preserved with mixed tocopherols), millet, tomato pomace, natural flavor, flaxseed meal, ocean fish meal, choline chloride, suncured alfalfa meal, inulin (from chicory root), lecithin, sage extract, cranberries, beta-carotene, rosemary extract, sunflower oil, yucca schidigera extract, dried enterococcus faecium fermentation product, dried lactobacillus acidophilus fermentation product, dried lactobacillus casei fermentation product, dried lactobacillus plantarum fermentation product, dried trichoderma longibrachiatum fermentation extract, vitamin E supplement, iron proteinate, zinc proteinate, copper proteinate, ferrous sulfate, zinc sulfate, copper sulfate, potassium iodide, thiamine mononitrate, manganese proteinate, manganous oxide, ascorbic acid, vitamin A supplement, biotin, calcium pantothenate, manganese sulfate, sodium selenite, pyridoxine hydrochloride (vitamin B6), vitamin B12 supplement, riboflavin, vitamin D3 supplement, folic acid, papaya, pineapple.

So, moral of the story, just because there are fancy commercials for Beneful and your vet carries science diet doesn’t mean that’s a good way to spend your money. You can get Canidae or a similar dog food with real food for carnivores in it for around the same price as the mass-line “premium” dog foods.

Determined, Jonesing Commentor

by Corco on Oct 29, 2010 2:48 PM PDT up reply actions  

I will look for this.

I really don’t know what I’m feeding my dog. He likes it, the packaging looks cool and it’s more expensive than the rest so I figure its good for him. :(

I will try this and report back

by d0nkey on Oct 29, 2010 3:33 PM PDT up reply actions  

I switched my dogs to non grain based dog food

one because it was supposed to be healthier, and two because my pure bred scottie seemed to get super itchy (to the point where he was scratching bald spots on himself). He’s been much healthier since.

To improve, they should try to become the musical southern cal of the west. - bRuins Nation poster on the Stanford band.

by bluemax on Oct 29, 2010 3:34 PM PDT up reply actions  

Unless it's Beneful, Eukanuba, Iams, or Science Diet it probably is

Sometimes changing food is all that’s necessary. One of our dogs didn’t do so well on Flint River Ranch, so we put him on Nutro and/or Canidae and he’s been fine ever since.

Determined, Jonesing Commentor

by Corco on Oct 29, 2010 3:37 PM PDT up reply actions  

Much appreciated.

I mean, I know he’s a golden and they shed like crazy, but this has been unusually heavy as of the last 3 months or so.

by d0nkey on Oct 29, 2010 3:49 PM PDT up reply actions  

I just watched the making of that on Biography channel last night.

Two hours long, but a great show.

"There! I just sold you for a cigarette! And I don't smoke!"

by Thingray on Oct 29, 2010 12:50 PM PDT up reply actions  

Does anyone else get roped into wearing Halloween costumes that border on cross-dressing a lot?

I seem to have this happen quite a bit. I think my wife costumes me funny.

"There! I just sold you for a cigarette! And I don't smoke!"

by Thingray on Oct 29, 2010 12:49 PM PDT reply actions  

Yes.

A couple of years ago my girlfriend decided that she would be Little Red Riding Hood and I would be the wolf. But I couldn’t just dress up as a wolf. No, I had to wear the granny gown and night cap, along with press on nails for my “claws”. I believe she enjoyed that night much more than I did.

by schismatix on Oct 29, 2010 1:05 PM PDT up reply actions  

It was just like that.

But with less dancing and more self-consciousness.

by schismatix on Oct 29, 2010 2:08 PM PDT up reply actions  

Can't rock the fake nails if you're going to be self-concious.

"There! I just sold you for a cigarette! And I don't smoke!"

by Thingray on Oct 29, 2010 2:10 PM PDT up reply actions  

The nails were a last minute addition.

I would have been less self-conscious if we hadn’t been going out to a concert that night, in costume.

by schismatix on Oct 29, 2010 2:12 PM PDT up reply actions  

You needed tequila.

"There! I just sold you for a cigarette! And I don't smoke!"

by Thingray on Oct 29, 2010 2:23 PM PDT up reply actions  

I needed a lot of things.

Tequila being close to the top of that list.

by schismatix on Oct 29, 2010 2:30 PM PDT up reply actions  

Simply trying to DEAL with what I'll be wearing,

and getting ready for all the grab-assery that is sure to happen at the party.

"There! I just sold you for a cigarette! And I don't smoke!"

by Thingray on Oct 29, 2010 2:41 PM PDT up reply actions  

There's booze involved.

I’ll be fine as long as I keep my legs crossed and my butt clenched.

"There! I just sold you for a cigarette! And I don't smoke!"

by Thingray on Oct 29, 2010 3:03 PM PDT up reply actions  

Too drunk to care!!!!

PHPPEHDUIBNUJKS lkafncwe… THUD

(faceplants in own vomit, soils pants)

"There! I just sold you for a cigarette! And I don't smoke!"

by Thingray on Oct 29, 2010 3:22 PM PDT up reply actions  

In the past 10 years,

I’ve been Frankenfurter, a gypsy, a pirate wench (my wife hated her wench costume at teh last second, so we swapped), and now I’m going as a “Sparkles, the Gay Butt Pirate”.

I was supposed to be a “Punk Rock Pirate” (wife’s idea), but I tried on the costume last night, and it wasn’t punk, and it wasn’t pirate… So next thing you know my wife is playing with pink bandanas and pulls out a fake foam butt… So here I go…

"There! I just sold you for a cigarette! And I don't smoke!"

by Thingray on Oct 29, 2010 1:23 PM PDT up reply actions  

I choose to think of this the opposite way,

She might be open to another woman….

"There! I just sold you for a cigarette! And I don't smoke!"

by Thingray on Oct 29, 2010 1:34 PM PDT up reply actions  

This could be a very funny conversation in a different forum,

but somehow I think we’ll get in trouble if we continue down this particular road.

"There! I just sold you for a cigarette! And I don't smoke!"

by Thingray on Oct 29, 2010 1:37 PM PDT up reply actions  

I love Matt Cain:

“Ah, strikeouts are overrated anyway,” Cain said. “They drive your pitch count up.”

Read more: http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2010/writers/tom_verducci/10/29/Five.Cuts/index.html?eref=sihp#ixzz13mWk1Jpd

"There! I just sold you for a cigarette! And I don't smoke!"

by Thingray on Oct 29, 2010 1:29 PM PDT reply actions  

I don't know what I'm doing for halloween

but I found some parts and made this into a costume…

Photobucket

I’m just not quite sure who/what I am. Considerations?

Charter Member: Dave Sims Sweet Hat Club // Career .384 BA, .543 OBP for Rocky Diablos

by Two Rs and Two Ls on Oct 29, 2010 2:59 PM PDT reply actions   1 recs

A more sane Rorschach?

"Ever tried? Ever failed? No matter. Try again. Fail again. Fail better." - Samuel Beckett Mariners Minors

by JY on Oct 29, 2010 3:01 PM PDT up reply actions  

The Question

The basis for Rorschah.

To improve, they should try to become the musical southern cal of the west. - bRuins Nation poster on the Stanford band.

by bluemax on Oct 29, 2010 3:03 PM PDT up reply actions  

The Invisible Man.

"There! I just sold you for a cigarette! And I don't smoke!"

by Thingray on Oct 29, 2010 3:03 PM PDT up reply actions  

I just got back from the video store, where I rented Phantasm

which isn’t underrated as much as cheesy and awful, but it’s still a good Halloween film. Especially when drinking.

by pdb on Oct 29, 2010 3:20 PM PDT up reply actions  

No Dog Soldiers?

Boooo!

Dawg! He put da team on his back!

by JAH on Oct 29, 2010 3:48 PM PDT up reply actions  

Depending on your definition of underrated, the 2004 Dawn of the Dead remake is up there too.

In that case, the movie got good reviews and people liked it, but it made less than $60 million at the box office ($30 million more than its budget so it was a victory for the studio) but for a movie released by Universal, that’s not a whole lot.

by Coach Owens on Oct 29, 2010 3:48 PM PDT up reply actions  

To me, it's overrated.

No offense to the film or its fans, but I am seriously into horror movies more than a normal human being should be, so I have to hear all the time how underrated it is, so at least to ME, its overrated. One of those effects, you know? It’s an okay movie, but still pretty cheesy and in parts, really dumb. I enjoy bad horror movies, which is what Dawn of the Dead is to me, but when someone gives me chopped liver and says its filet mignon, I develop a little resentment.

by Kenneth Arthur on Oct 29, 2010 3:57 PM PDT up reply actions  

Orphan is definitely not underrated.

I’ll go with Return of the Living Dead… it was Shaun of the Dead before there was a Shaun of the Dead.

by Kenneth Arthur on Oct 29, 2010 3:59 PM PDT up reply actions  

This is a pretty cool blog. And a reminder that horror movies have some awesome taglines.

“By sword. By pick. By axe. Bye bye.” – The Mutilator
“Mary thinks there is something alive under her bed. Mary is right!” Don’t Go to Sleep
“They Prey on HUMAN FLESH!” – The Bees
“The World’s Most Aggressive Primate…. Just Got Mad.” -Shakma
“He has the power to make you live his nightmares, and he’s dreaming about you.” – The Sender
“When Jenny cheated on her husband, he didn’t just leave… he split.” – Raising Cain
“Their crime was against nature… nature found them guilty.’ Long Weekend
“Sorry, your party is dead.” – Eyes of a Stranger
“…Where the rent won’t KILL YOU, but someone else WILL.” -Boarding House
“When Tony grows up, he’s going to be just like DADDY” – XTRO
“You have the right to remain silent…. forever.” -Maniac Cop 2

AND MY FAVORITE
“Old McDonald Had a Farm… EI EI OUCH!” -Splatter Farm

by Kenneth Arthur on Oct 29, 2010 4:30 PM PDT up reply actions  

I hate fitted hats because they don't fit my head over all stages of my hair length.

I typically cut it all off and go three months before cutting it again, so right now I can’t even wear my Mariners hat. Stuck with the Oregon one or the Nationals one. Also, the flat brim bullcrap looks stupid.

I once accused Robert of being Dewey N, because I didn't know it was Fogel. I suck with context clues.

by thehemogoblin on Oct 29, 2010 3:59 PM PDT up reply actions  

This hat is like two centimeters too small to wear for eight hours straight.

It’s just tight enough that I keep wanted to grab the brim and pull it away from my head for a few seconds every couple of minutes. One size up, too big. One size down, WAY too tight.

"There! I just sold you for a cigarette! And I don't smoke!"

by Thingray on Oct 29, 2010 4:12 PM PDT up reply actions  

Anyone know of a good replacement for the now defunct Limewire?

To… you know… download audio files in the public domain?

...and now I'm here

by CapSea on Oct 29, 2010 9:55 PM PDT reply actions  

Torrents?

Use a proxy, but that’s the best there really is nowadays

It's hard to convince people to let you eat them if you're an asshole. - Thingray

by Faux on Oct 29, 2010 9:56 PM PDT up reply actions  

Limewire is defunct???

I sometimes find myself engaged in combat with hobos.

by kevin_ess on Oct 29, 2010 9:56 PM PDT up reply actions  

LimeWire runs on the Gnutella network, which the courts did not shutdown.

So any Gnutella client will work. Check out FrostWire, which is an open source evolutionary fork from the same LimeWire Java code. It is immediately familiar to anyone who has used Lime, and had its most recent version pushed on September 22nd—six days before Lime’s latest release. It’s still very current and supported.

by harkening on Oct 30, 2010 12:48 AM PDT up reply actions  

Also, if you go the torrent route as others are suggesting, you need a torrent client anyway.

Guess which p2p program functions as a torrent client? If you answered “FrostWire”, you are correct.* So you can have your cake and eat it, too.

*LimeWire also functioned as a torrent client, so there was already that.

by harkening on Oct 30, 2010 12:51 AM PDT up reply actions  

You spell "you are" as "your."

So neaner neaner neaner >=P

...and now I'm here

by CapSea on Oct 30, 2010 1:55 AM PDT up reply actions  

And since this is coming across as a weebit mean, I also recommended the use of Torrents.

Download uTorrent and ask questions on how to use it. It has a small learning curve but once you get the hang of it you won’t ever go back.

by Robert on Oct 30, 2010 8:37 AM PDT up reply actions  

I am very not computer savvy

but I figured out uTorrent in about 10 minutes. And I love it.

by pdb on Oct 30, 2010 9:42 AM PDT up reply actions  

Will do!

Now that I know about selecting individual files I will get on it post haste.

...and now I'm here

by CapSea on Oct 30, 2010 5:31 PM PDT up reply actions  

People still used Limewire?

To improve, they should try to become the musical southern cal of the west. - bRuins Nation poster on the Stanford band.

by bluemax on Nov 1, 2010 9:18 AM PDT up reply actions  

Whoa...

Not a big fan of Letterman, but waiting for Craig Ferguson to come on. Michael J Fox was on (huge fan of his – he and I share a birthday!) and he said something that really resonated with me. “There is a difference between acceptance and resignation.”

I literally stood up and clapped.

I sometimes find myself engaged in combat with hobos.

by kevin_ess on Oct 30, 2010 12:44 AM PDT reply actions  

Sheeeeyit

"Ever tried? Ever failed? No matter. Try again. Fail again. Fail better." - Samuel Beckett Mariners Minors

by JY on Oct 30, 2010 11:45 AM PDT up reply actions  

Comments For This Post Are Closed


User Tools

By reading a game thread of your own volition you agree to accept all liability for any and all damage done to your delicate sensibilities.

FanPosts

Community blog posts and discussion.

Recent FanPosts

Small
Starlin Castro's fit with Seattle
Kawasaki80_small
Lists! So many lists!
M_s_hat_copy_small
OT -- May 22nd In Memoriam
Ichiro_small
Why do managers and media members hate walks?
Wbc_029_small
Friday Morning Music Thread
Small
Dustin Ackley BP swing vs game swing
Beastquakerwallpaper_small
More on the Struggles of Smoak
Randy2_for_sbn_small
Albert Pujols 2012: Three Retrospectives
Small
On Batting Orders
Niehaus_small
More on Dustin Ackley and the strikezone

+ New FanPost All FanPosts >

Yahoo_full_count

Sexy People

Wbc_029_small Jeff Sullivan

Small Matthew

Claw_small JY