Bring Back Edgar!
I was at the Edgar Martinez event at Elysian Fields tonight and had a great time. Thanks a million to Edgar and the Mariners' organization for making this happen. Go right now and support his foundation at http://www.themartinezfoundation.org/
As I was sitting there drinking a beer and watching Edgar meet with anyone who wanted to talk to him or get their picture with him...it occurred to me that not only is Edgar a great human being, he would probably be a better DH than any the M's have had since he left. I was thinking of going over and begging him to return, but I didn't have the numbers to back me up.
I wish I had done it.
Only in 2007 did M's DH's do better than Edgar's worst season (his last) of at least 200 PA -- and then only by 21 points of OPS. In only two seasons since have M's DH's posted a better AVG. In only one season did they best his SLG. In three seasons they bettered Edgar's OBP, but in only two did they top his OPS.
Of course Edgar wouldn't necessarily have continued to perform the same way after 2004. (Or would he??) But given the results and how much I love Gar, I would rather have seen him out there than the guys we've had.
Below is a chart of Edgar's last season and the Mariners' DH's numbers in each successive season. Numbers that are better than Edgar's in seasons after he left are in bold.
| YEAR | AVG | SLG | OBP | OPS |
| 2004 | 0.263 | 0.342 | 0.385 | 0.727 |
| 2005 | 0.268 | 0.333 | 0.390 | 0.723 |
| 2006 | 0.234 | 0.300 | 0.361 | 0.660 |
| 2007 | 0.294 | 0.358 | 0.390 | 0.748 |
| 2008 | 0.219 | 0.271 | 0.334 | 0.605 |
| 2009 | 0.242 | 0.329 | 0.420 | 0.749 |
| 2010 | 0.194 | 0.269 | 0.340 | 0.609 |
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I'd love for this to happen, but I'm pretty sure his delicate little leg muscles would explode the first time he moved toward first base.
I once accused Robert of being Dewey N, because I didn't know it was Fogel. I suck with context clues.
That poll looks like a 2006 trivia question
“Which Mariner’s player is most likely to have a positive UZR?”
So far I think we’ve gotten the correct answer.
He mentioned in a live chat not long ago that he can barely see the door from his chair, so I'm assuming his eyes are way too bad to play.
Morgan Ensberg for Manager 2011!
AL Scout on Rendon: "I would peg him as a poor man's Jose Lopez."
He has a story about being asked to stand in at a charity softball event a year or so back, having three pitches go by, and not seeing any of them
He was pretty strict about his exercises back in the day.
No TV, or anything during the season. Now, I imagine he probably watches a bit of it….
"Ever tried? Ever failed? No matter. Try again. Fail again. Fail better." - Samuel Beckett Mariners Minors
by JY on Oct 28, 2010 4:40 PM PDT up reply actions
Man his last season was tough enough to watch.
I wouldn’t want him to fail. He is still my favorite Mariner on many levels.
He could barely walk through most of his last season, and his bat speed was about as fast as mine
so…..no.
I remember him being in pretty good shape his last year.
In fact, there was talk of him taking regular turns in the field to accommodate Bucky
Buhner for RF!! Boone for 2B!! Wilson for catcher!!
Bring back RJ!! Come back Sasaki!! Come back!!
Sheesh.
"There! I just sold you for a cigarette! And I don't smoke!"
by Thingray on Oct 28, 2010 10:58 AM PDT reply actions 1 recs
For a second I thought you wanted The Ladies Man to play Third.
Or Leon Washington, which would be interesting, but I don’t know how he handles the glove.
"There! I just sold you for a cigarette! And I don't smoke!"
Leon always wears a glove
Leon can’t have anything complicating his life, you know.
by nathaniel dawson on Oct 28, 2010 4:54 PM PDT up reply actions
I would take back Randy Johnson.
I bet he could still pitch.
Morgan Ensberg for Manager 2011!
AL Scout on Rendon: "I would peg him as a poor man's Jose Lopez."
Mangini?
So I’m glad to see this mostly makes people sad, which is what it should do more than making anyone actually want Edgar back.
I find it so frustrating because on the surface it just seems the DH position should be the easiest one to fill after “last guy in the bullpen.” You just need a guy who can hit, and is either so hobbled, so obviously bad with a glove, or who is otherwise willing not to play the field. But it turns out that these players are rare. The typical quality major league hitter who is finished in fhe field rarely believes this to be the case until his hitting begins to suck also.
So maybe the answer is to just groom a young bat to play the position. If a guy like Matt Mangini continues to hit well, but field poorly it shouldn’t be hard to convince him his path to the majors is in the DH position. And a Mangini can still play third in a pinch without Edgar-esque risk of injury. I’m not saying Mangini is necessarily the DH of the future, but we could use a fresh approach to the problem of filling the DH slot. The “washed up veteran” method is just not paying off.
It seems there's always a bunch of good, old hitters out there every off-season
But NL teams drive up the price a little because they’re always looking for a good bat even if the guy’s not good in the field. Or, they’re used to making more money in the past and would rather retire than take a bargain basement deal.
by nathaniel dawson on Oct 30, 2010 9:07 AM PDT up reply actions
That's a waste of a young player.
I think that unless there are special conditions (where you have a really superior hitter as a DH who just doesn’t make sense as a fielder, like Edgar, Paul Molitor, maybe Ellis Burks or Jim Thome during their good years), you should do what Sparky Anderson did: rotate regulars through DH to give them pseudo-days off, maybe have a veteran PH/DH/1B/OF who plays there sometimes so he gets regular AB’s so that when you PH him, he’s not completely rusty from sitting on a bench for a week, maybe platoon some guys there, but don’t have a full-time DH.
The big reason I see for this is with 12 man pitching staffs being the norm (sometimes 13) and 8 roster spots for regulars in the field, that means you’re looking at 4-5 spots on your bench to back up the position players. One of those is the backup catcher, so now we’re down to 3-4. Out of those, if one of those guys is a DH who isn’t a contributor with the glove and can’t cover a critical defensive position, you’re looking at covering your critical infield AND outfield defensive positions with 2-3 players. That just stretches you too thin, because odds are you probably need two guys who are terrible hitters but + defensive players to cover CF and middle infield (it’s rare when those can be the same guy). Having a thin bench also limits the amount of platooning/pinch hitting you can do (and PH’ing for handedness is far more effective than switching pitchers for handedness).
I would personally rather have a deeper bench and spread those ~650 PAs a full-time but kinda “meh” DH is going to get among my bench players, especially given that if you have decent bench players, giving them an extra 200 or so PAs goes a long way to keeping them from rusting on the bench.
by eponymous_coward on Nov 1, 2010 10:17 AM PDT up reply actions
Well said.
And you can see that more and more teams are starting to go this route. Unless the player is a tremendous hitter, you just don’t see too many full-time DH’s anymore.
That requires that a team keep a balance on their bench between good field/good hit players so they aren’t left with a sub .700 OPS DH slot. You’re pretty much going to have to accept having a couple of your bench guys be of the questionable defense variety, as long as they can at least play a couple of positions.
by nathaniel dawson on Nov 1, 2010 2:07 PM PDT up reply actions
Well said.
And you can see that more and more teams are starting to go this route. Unless the player is a tremendous hitter, you just don’t see too many full-time DH’s anymore.
That requires that a team keep a balance on their bench between good field/good hit players so they aren’t left with a sub .700 OPS DH slot. You’re pretty much going to have to accept having a couple of your bench guys be of the questionable defense variety, as long as they can at least play a couple of positions.
by nathaniel dawson on Nov 1, 2010 2:08 PM PDT up reply actions
Lets just move to the NL...
Our pitchers can hit, and the DH has been a black hole since Edgar left. Who do we have to petition?
And for the record, I like the DH, and dislike watching pitchers having to hit. The past 6 years have been depressing and futile.
This makes me sad.
We almost ended up in the NL during one of the last realignments.
"There! I just sold you for a cigarette! And I don't smoke!"
I always forget how much I hate the AL until the playoffs start
I pay very little attention to the NL during the season and rarely watch more than an inning or two of an NL game until the playoffs.
by pdb on Nov 1, 2010 9:10 AM PDT up reply actions
I just see no reason why it's fun to watch pitchers hit and have the best you can get out of that spot in any game is like a .700 OPS pinch hitter.
Exactly.
As for the “but there’s strategy involved in the NL”: no, there’s no strategy involved when everyone in a fifty-mile radius knows that with runners on first and second, tie ballgame, early or middle innings with both starting pitchers still in the game, pitcher at the plate, the pitcher’s going to bunt. That’s a kabuki show of “strategy”, not strategy.
I’ll take seeing hitters who can actually do the job of hitting working against pitchers who can do the job of pitching over the occasional double-switch that makes people go “ooooh, what a smart manager”.
by eponymous_coward on Nov 2, 2010 10:18 AM PDT up reply actions
It is not about strategy.
I like low scoring games. I like fast games. I hate watching washed up players finish their career at DH.
Well, let's make it easy, then.
Put the pitcher’s mound at 40 feet away from home plate and 8 feet high. Boom, VERY low scoring games.
by eponymous_coward on Nov 2, 2010 4:07 PM PDT up reply actions
Since watching the playoffs, I've decided I like NL-style ball more
Don’t want to get into the religious debate, just my personal preference that has been cemented this year. I’ll always love the Mariners of course, but I kinda wish we were an NL city…
Mariners/D Broncos/BSU Broncos fan in Seattle
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