The Kotchman Deal
by Matthew on Jan 5, 2010 3:16 PM PST
in Seattle Mariners Transactions
Email
PrintA few more details have leaked out and this seems solid enough to write about now.
MARINERS SEND:
Bill Hall
A Minor League PTBNL
Cash
MARINERS RECEIVE:
Casey Kotchman
Kotchman is 2nd year arbitration-eligible and made just under $3 million last year. Since this is how arbitration works, expect him to get a raise to about the $3 million range. He'll be a free agent after 2011 should he be tendered a contract after 2010.
Analysis on Kotchman to follow and grading the deal later if/when we get better word on the minor leaguer (Josh Fields, anyone?) and how much cash (probably a million and change).
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They can use a pencil or a keyboard or heaven forbid a typewriter.
Addicted To Quack [dot] com
I have a Ropert is God™ complex.
I think that's a difficult argument to make for someone who just traded for Milton Bradley.
…On the other hand; Even Jefferson Davis would’ve traded Carlos Silva for him.
The Red Sox don't currently have any black players, right?
I imagine they might want one. You know, so the Boston fans can see what they look like in real life.
by I Lick Squirrels on Jan 5, 2010 7:35 PM PST up reply actions 1 recs
Corresponding to the metal plate in Cammy's head
by Jeff Sullivan on Jan 5, 2010 7:41 PM PST up reply actions
I think Fogel is still watching the 8th inning of a game
by Jeff Sullivan on Jan 5, 2010 7:47 PM PST up reply actions
I'll let you know the final score when it's over boss
by Dewey N on Jan 5, 2010 7:48 PM PST up reply actions 3 recs
9-0 Indians
We should just DFA Batista
by Dewey N on Jan 5, 2010 8:10 PM PST up reply actions 1 recs
Christ, how did I forget him?
Maybe they’re just stocking up on blacks since they didn’t have any last year and consequently sucked.
by I Lick Squirrels on Jan 5, 2010 7:59 PM PST up reply actions
Okay, that's cool..
I have tickets to the USSM event, and I am going to give you a little heads up. I’m going to stand up, in front of the entire auditorium, and ask Jeff why he is a racist. Awkward – even if I wasn’t black. Whether you are racist or not is of little consequence. 17 bucks well spent ;) I wouldn’t push it either, Graham.
I think Jeff is actually being racial and not racist
by Dewey N on Jan 5, 2010 7:57 PM PST up reply actions 4 recs
Here's the deal
I don’t care if you don’t like my moderating decisions*, because they’re mine to take and not yours. I have explained the situation to you in what I believe to be a rational and levelheaded manner, and you insist on trying to escalate things. So get over it, or you won’t be posting much longer.
And if you want to call Jeff a racist in front of the auditorium, feel free to look like a random shouting crazy man because the audience is going to be un-miked.
*I care enough to explain things, but no more.
by Graham MacAree on Jan 5, 2010 8:20 PM PST up reply actions 2 recs
I don't mind losing Hall
I guess this means we won’t be getting Branyan though.
So wait..
I call some old lady with a crew-cut a lesbo, and it gets deleted, but racist jokes are okay?
Someone the other day said we should move the team to Compton. Personally, I laughed, but just wondering why that is okay but “lesbo” is off-limits.
You were actually being homophobic whereas Poochie was poking fun at people's racism.
That’s a pretty clear difference.
by Aaron Campeau on Jan 5, 2010 7:21 PM PST up reply actions
Homophobic? The word "lesbo?"
You’re pretty clearly a pussy.
So there's a rule about unwarrented hostility and I like ac a lot more than I like you
by Graham MacAree on Jan 5, 2010 7:27 PM PST up reply actions
Fair enough..
For the record, I’m a big fan of your work, and was very excited when Tony Blengino gave you a shout-out.. But, still, calling me homophobic is a bit of stretch, and in my opinion, the hostility was not unwarranted (that’s actually how it’s spelled)..
I know how to spell unwarranted
I also happen to be massively dyslexic, which is fun. I also doubt that you’re homophobic, but your comment was, which is what ac was saying in the first place.
by Graham MacAree on Jan 5, 2010 7:32 PM PST up reply actions
I hid your comment because
a) it wasn’t funny
b) it was therefore pointlessly homophobic
by Graham MacAree on Jan 5, 2010 7:31 PM PST up reply actions
It was funny..
I think most people would think it was funny and not homophobic. It’s a picture of the “female in question” holding the “In Jack We Trust” sign, and I said “Some Lesbo beat ya to it!” – That’s for those reading this with no clue what we’re talking about. – I am not a homophobe, and it was clearly a joke, because this woman has some stereotypical lesbian features. It doesn’t mean she’s a lesbian, which is also nothing to be ashamed of. But regardless, who cares? I was just questioning why lesbians are suddenly off limits for humor but an entire race of people is just fine to poke fun at.
All that said, I am arguing with two people with a combined 60,000 comments on just this site alone.. I need to snap back into reality and see what my kids are getting in to..
Lesbians are not off-limits for joking purposes
But again, the unwritten rule here is that if you’re going to make an offensive joke, it has to be funny. Since the standards for funny are subjective, some things will get hidden that the author thought were hilarious, and some things will stay that offend others.
by Graham MacAree on Jan 5, 2010 7:42 PM PST up reply actions
You had about five comments total here at the time.
Poochie has several thousand. We, being the moderators, are familiar enough with his manner to know when he’s joking. You, we do not.
That’s how it goes. Context is important and the author of a comment is important context.
Also, he was referring to a specific woman that did nothing to anyone that someone on LL knows personally.
Rather than a generic blanket statement that is clearly made in jest.
...and now I'm here
I'm an old lady with a crew-cut. I also happen to be a lesbian.
I’ve been a lurker on this site for a couple of years and only recently started to post comments. I love jokes that are funny. I don’t really appreciate remarks that are homophobic or racist; they just sound ignorant. I can get that on the bus. I come hear for good discussions about baseball, jokes are a bonus and I’m not that fond of bus rides.
by TrustBaseball on Jan 5, 2010 9:52 PM PST up reply actions
Who is our RH bat to come off the bench now?
And your kidding about Fields, right?
by EnglishMariner on Jan 5, 2010 3:22 PM PST via mobile reply actions
Does anyone hate this trade as much as me?
Only way I anticipate liking it is if we’re sending several million less than the Brewers are sending us.
If Kotchman is going to be our everyday 1B...
it’s going to take a lot for me to not hate it.
How about if Kotchman is going to be our 1B for basically free
Because we sennd less money with Hall than we got with him?
Theoretically we were paying Bill Hall $1MM?
Or the league minimum? I don’t recall.
If we're paying Kotchman $1.4MM
I could see it financially, but it’s going to take some maneuvering to get more wins on the field. I’m not comfortable penciling Kotchman in for more than 1 WAR.
I don't like it unless it somehow frees up money for us by sending less than we got from MIL.
And I hope the prospect will be a non-prospect.
by EnglishMariner on Jan 5, 2010 3:26 PM PST via mobile up reply actions
If this ends up being us filling our 1B hole with a ~1.5 win player for 'almost free'...
Then I like it. Good value and it saves the money for starting pitching.
If this ends up being us paying almost as much in the end for Kotchman as we would have for Branyan, then I dont like it.
A starter not named Joel Piniero.
Maybe one with a name that rhymes with ‘Beets’
I like Pineiro
Provided the contract is reasonable.
...and now I'm here
I like your mom
provided the price is reasonable.
This is the most hilarious and clever joke, ever.
You, sir, are a genius of comedy.
...and now I'm here
I want to be the Angels...
They made the playoffs a nubmer of years in a row.
I want to do it in a less annoying way.
I guess it would be fun to root for the team annoying everyone else, but it makes me feel dirty.
If money is ~equal and prospect isn't too valuable
Great deal in my opinion. Bill Hall was essentially obligated to be on the roster and not filling any role whatsoever except backup-backup IF/OF. Kotchman could be a 1B platoon partner, or start if Z can’t find anything else.
FUCK THE ANGELS!
And a guy who once upon a time not long ago (when people wore pajamas and lived life slow)
had tantalizing power.
Over the last last two years
Bill Hall has had a ~.280 wOBA in ~800 PA, while Bloomquist posted a ~.305 wOBA in ~650 PA.
Not saying which I'd rather have, just giving the numbers.
Bill Hall has been a worse hitter than Bloomquist over the last years, and over fairly significant PA numbers. Hall hasn’t been better with the bat than Willie in several years
I like the idea of Kotchman platooning or backing up old-man Branyan.
Kotchman as our opening day first baseman on the other hand, no thank you.
If it allows us the flexibility to acquire a better starting pitcher or catcher
then I can live with Kotchman as the starting 1B. Not ideal, obviously.
FUCK THE ANGELS!
by Fuckmikereilly on Jan 5, 2010 3:46 PM PST up reply actions
Mr. Cameron said on the radio a few weeks ago something like this:
The M’s could use a stop gap at first base and if in contention may go after someone like Alex Gonzalez again when such teams might be more open to a trade.
I think Kotchman is a decent stop gap and looks like we are not giving up anything that isn’t replaceable. If we are in contention, we can move Kotchman without worry as well.
I absolutely don't want to deal Fields.
That said, no matter who we trade in addition to Hall, I’m looking forward to FanGraphs’s analysis of our top ten prospects. With the exception of a few names on top, our farm system is starting to appear barren.
1.) ACKLEYACKLEYACKLEYACKLEY
2-10.) Who cares?
It's not like Z really emptied out too much though.
I think “starting to appear barren” isn’t really fair. Also, it appears to be worse than it actually is, given the draft picks we’ll get for Lee.
FUCK THE ANGELS!
by Fuckmikereilly on Jan 5, 2010 3:51 PM PST up reply actions
True.
I guess my point was, a lot of what makes the system look weak was the loss of Ramirez and Aumont, two of our top 7ish prospects. But few would call the Lee deal a bad one because of those picks.
FUCK THE ANGELS!
by Fuckmikereilly on Jan 5, 2010 3:58 PM PST up reply actions
If Saunders counts as a prospect then I don't think Moore should.
Michael will at least be spending a lot of 2010 in Tacoma. That doesn’t seem to be the case with Adam.
That's not how prospect eligibility works
by Graham MacAree on Jan 5, 2010 3:49 PM PST up reply actions
What's the definition of a prospect, then? "Good young player?"
I usually take it to mean minor leaguer, but I’ve also seen it referred to players that are under a certain age.
Usually I use it as any player who hasn't exhausted rookie eligibility
so like 140 PAs or 50 IP (or something like that)
I forgot about Poythress!
There are definitely some interesting players, but it seems like we’re starting to really run low on depth. After the guys you mentioned, who’s left? Raben, who’s still a question mark. Halman, who’s high-risk, high-reward. Tui… The system’s quality plummets pretty quickly there.
There are actually a tonne of interesting players in the system
They’re just not too likely to pan out
by Graham MacAree on Jan 5, 2010 3:50 PM PST up reply actions
Well there's lots of guys like Shawn Kelley out there
who are likely to become big league players but are the walking definition of replacement-level. Most systems have lots of those guys, we have lots of “throw-against-the-wall-and-see-what-sticks” prospects
Also our midseason acquisitions of Robles, Saito, and Cortes
by Simon Phoenix on Jan 5, 2010 3:52 PM PST up reply actions
I must have some sort of anti-Bavasi bias (crazy, I know)
Half of those names I hate, and have zero faith that they’ll ever reach the major leagues. The other names I find fun, and look foward to following their progression this summer.
If you had ten Greg Halmans, you'd pretty much be guaranteed to get one Mike Cameron out of the bunch
it’s not the worst thing in the world
But we only have two Greg Halmans.
FUCK THE ANGELS!
by Fuckmikereilly on Jan 5, 2010 3:55 PM PST up reply actions
I bet we could get Wlad back.
We’d have to teach him to play good defense, though.
I don't like this trade.
If our PTBNL is anyone who matters… then it really sucks. Although I guess if that’s my definition of a trade that really sucks now then I suppose I should happy.
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