Navigation: Jump to content areas:


Pro Quality. Fan Perspective.
Login-facebook
Around SBN: Todd Haley Is The Steelers Next Offensive Coordinator

Felix Hernandez, Seattle Mariner

Time to be rational. As rational as one can be under the circumstances, anyway. Which is not very rational.

  • Let us take this opportunity to thank everyone who played a part in bringing Felix to Seattle in the first place. Here are a couple good old P-I articles: Morosi and Andriesen. The key quote?

    "The money was good, and Seattle treated me the best," he said through an interpreter.

    Remember, the Mariners didn't offer Felix the most when he was a teenager. They were outbid. But Felix signed with the organization with whom he had formed the strongest relationship. Thank you to Luis Fuenmayor for noticing Felix at 14. Thank you to Pedro Avila, Bob Engle, and Emilio Carrasquel for both scouting Felix and developing a close relationship with his family. Thank you to Felix Sr. for serving as the younger Felix's advisor. And thank you to Freddy Garcia for unknowingly being Felix's idol at the time that Felix signed. This wouldn't have happened without all the organization's hard work, and it wouldn't have happened without a little good luck.

  • Felix was a bigger deal at 14 than any of us will ever be, ever.

  • Yesterday morning, I watched my favorite hockey team beat the crap out of a close division rival. Yesterday afternoon, I landed an absolute dream job and officially set in motion plans to move to Portland in a few weeks. And yesterday night, news broke of Felix Hernandez signing a long-term contract. I never thought the best day of my life would involve a complete stranger getting seventy-eight million dollars, but here we are.

  • It's funny. Had the Mariners received top prospect Scott Elarton instead of Freddy Garcia in the Randy Johnson trade, then not only would we have wound up with a worse pitcher - we may never have been able to land the King. In a weird way, the Randy Johnson trade is kind of one of the best moves the team's ever made.

  • So now we can all breathe easy. At the start of the offseason, I was cautiously optimistic. Then that dropped. Then, about a month ago, I started to get really good vibes. And now it's all set. In all honesty, by yesterday a Felix extension seemed more a question of When than If. But all along there was always that little shred of nightmare potential, and so to get this sewed up...I didn't think a Felix contract would make me this happy. Not in a million years. I could run a naked marathon.

  • I would not be the least bit concerned about how the negotiations went. That $45m/4yr offer that broke a while back, for example - that was just a starting point. Today, Baker mentions that the M's wanted four years and Felix wanted six. It'd be easy to read that and think, "What? They only wanted four years?" But, for one thing, there aren't any details included. Could've easily wanted four guaranteed years with fifth- and maybe sixth-year options. And for another, this is how you negotiate. If Felix wants six and you're comfortable with five, you offer four and meet in the middle. You don't just cave to the other party's demands. Even when it's Felix. If you start with five, you run the risk of hitting an impasse - "If you can do five, what's the risk of one more year?" Go with four and there's an obvious compromise. I urge everyone to give the front office the benefit of the doubt, here. At the end of the day, they got their man locked up.

  • There's been a little bit of disappointment among fans that there isn't a sixth year. I get it. This is Felix. I would've done six, too. But remember that, historically, long-term pitcher contracts haven't worked out very well. When pitchers are involved, it's hard enough to predict what's going to happen one year down the road, nevermind a half-dozen. I would say that this five-year contract is the absolute ideal. It's both long enough to keep Felix around for a while, and short enough to reduce the odds of an albatross. A sixth-year option would've been cool, but you can't ask the world to be perfect, and we already live in a reality in which Felix Hernandez is a Seattle Mariner through October 2014.

  • When people would ask him about his future in recent months, Felix would sarcastically repond with statements like "ask the Mariners" or jokes about how he was being traded to Boston. Now that's all out the window. In 2010, we get to watch Felix Hernandez pitch stress-free. Make no mistake: he is happy to be here. He wouldn't have been open to an extension if he weren't. He is happy to be here, and before long the Mariners are going to give him a taste of the playoffs.

  • In the past, I have expressed concern that the front office wasn't going about handling the Felix situation in the right way. I take it all back.

  • Dear Boston and New York,

    Yeah, there's a team way over here. I know, right?

    Sincerely,

    The Team With More Felix Hernandezes Than You

  • I don't even...seriously. Seriously? In 2008, the Mariners paid about $51m for Richie Sexson, Jose Vidro, Carlos Silva, Jarrod Washburn, and Miguel Batista. Now our long-term contracts belong to Felix Hernandez, Franklin Gutierrez, Ichiro, Milton Bradley, Chone Figgins, Jack Wilson, and Dustin Ackley. I think that means we're doing better.

Comment 597 comments  |  8 recs  | 

Do you like this story?

Comments

Display:

Bob Engle is so awesome.

I don’t think he gets the recognition he deserves.

by 200tang on Jan 19, 2010 12:28 PM PST reply actions  

Truly.

It’s hard to comment on all of the things he really had his hands on, because he’s only listed as the signing scout with so many guys, but it seems like every year we have someone break through to become a legit prospect in the organization despite being a relatively low-dollar signing that no one thought much of at the time. Michael Pineda is the example I’m thinking of at the moment, mainly because I’m not sure exactly how good Erasmo Ramirez (actually an Engle signing) is quite yet.

"Ever tried? Ever failed? No matter. Try again. Fail again. Fail better." - Samuel Beckett http://mvn.com/marinersminors/

by JY on Jan 19, 2010 12:41 PM PST up reply actions  

Welcome to in market games

and the city with the highest tiity bar per capita ratio

De Gutibus non disputandum est

by Bearskin Rugburn on Jan 19, 2010 12:39 PM PST up reply actions  

Damn.

I finally delurk myself and look forward to watching the M’s smacking down our MLBapprovedhatednaturalrival Padres with the LL gang… And the gang leaves town. At least the weather is prepping you for Portland today!

Also, FELIX!!!!

by ExiledToSoCal on Jan 19, 2010 12:45 PM PST up reply actions  

True.

But it’s never too early to get you guys fighting over who gets to run the show down here, now is it?

by ExiledToSoCal on Jan 19, 2010 1:55 PM PST up reply actions  

Things that may surprise you about the PDX

Portland is low on:
- Black people (unless you’re in North Portland)
- Sunshine
- Fake boobs
- Liquor stores
- Angels fans

Portland has a surplus of:
- Asians
- Rain
- Hairy legs
- Brew pubs
- Antipathy about pro sports

by PDXTai on Jan 20, 2010 9:25 AM PST up reply actions  

This is the greatest day ever.

I don’t even mind being hungover. 5 more years of Felix!

my blog: foul weather fans - seattle sports coverage

by AtomicGarden on Jan 19, 2010 12:37 PM PST reply actions  

My favorite quote from that post:
In 2008, the Mariners paid about $51m for Richie Sexson, Jose Vidro, Carlos Silva, Jarrod Washburn, and Miguel Batista. Now our long-term contracts belong to Felix Hernandez, Franklin Gutierrez, Ichiro, Chone Figgins, Jack Wilson, and Dustin Ackley. I think that means we’re doing better.

Beautiful. Absolutely beautiful.

by sirbrianwilson on Jan 19, 2010 12:46 PM PST reply actions  

I honestly got a little choked up reading this.

The turnaround has been so fast and so thorough that it boggles the mind. . . but somehow Jeff summed it all up in one sentence. Kudos.

Alex Semin likes to drink sake after engaging in hockey bukkake.

by D'ohboy on Jan 19, 2010 1:37 PM PST up reply actions  

YAY FELIX!

Also, congrats on the job, Jeff. Good news for you.

Say it with me: Washington Capitals. Capitals.
Preserved In All His Greatness - R.I.P. The Reignman 1989 to 1997

by JLProck on Jan 19, 2010 12:46 PM PST reply actions  

Welcome to the Pacific NW.

One step closer to Seattle!

Mariners/D Broncos/BSU Broncos fan in Seattle

by appleshampoo on Jan 19, 2010 12:54 PM PST reply actions  

Pacific NW really falls under the same umbrella

Portland-Seattle-Vancouver is basically the same I think.

2009 Safeco Field Record: 6-0 ; Overall Safeco Field Record: 10-4

by Fin on Jan 19, 2010 1:42 PM PST up reply actions  

geographically sure

but culturally I find Portland to be vastly different from Seattle, and while I haven’t spent a ton of time in Vancouver recently it’s also pretty different from either Portland or Seattle.

by pdb on Jan 19, 2010 2:02 PM PST up reply actions  

I meant geographically mostly,

but even culturally, I think they’re far more alike than different. I mean, I think Seattle is far more like Vancouver and Portland, than say San Francisco, Billings, LA, Salt Lake, etc.

by Matthew on Jan 19, 2010 2:07 PM PST up reply actions  

Which is the point I was getting at.

2009 Safeco Field Record: 6-0 ; Overall Safeco Field Record: 10-4

by Fin on Jan 19, 2010 2:08 PM PST up reply actions  

Whatever differences there are

they all are the same place when compared to say, Nassau County. Trust me.

De Gutibus non disputandum est

by Bearskin Rugburn on Jan 19, 2010 2:24 PM PST up reply actions  

I can't totally put my finger on what makes Portland feel so much different than Seattle for sure

Sometimes I think it feels like you took Seattle and then removed all the rich and poor people, made it a lot whiter and increased the number of people in their 30s.

by Edgar for Pres on Jan 20, 2010 9:45 AM PST up reply actions  

Portland is a far less aspirational city than Seattle is

People move to Portland because they feel like it’s a place where they can live however they want and not have to join the rat race or always aspire to the bigger house, bigger car, etc. People here are totally cool with their lot in life for the most part and don’t care about much else other than doing their thing their way.

by pdb on Jan 20, 2010 9:54 AM PST up reply actions   1 recs

This is exactly right, and why I want to end up back in Portland.

It's hard to convince people to let you eat them if you're an asshole. - Thingray

by Faux on Jan 20, 2010 10:43 AM PST up reply actions  

Portland is now the setting

For a show on the CW. The CW. I think I’d rather have “Frasier” than “Juno meets the Gilmore Girls” but whatever the case, this officially marks the point at which Portland has been “discovered.” The artists will be leaving shortly, as the city has clearly jumped the shark.

by wandergeist on Jan 20, 2010 11:48 PM PST up reply actions  

A matter of degrees

Portland is a lot closer to Seattle culturally than, say, Dallas or Knoxville.

Yes, there are significant differences. I don’t think they would be readily apparent to those from outside the PNW.

by PDXTai on Jan 20, 2010 9:27 AM PST up reply actions  

More Felix Hernandezes

Than everyone in the league combined.

by zeeehjee on Jan 19, 2010 1:06 PM PST reply actions  

1. Move to Portland.

2. Go to Pine State.
3. Order the Reggie Deluxe.
4. ?
5. Profit.

by Spider Jerusalem on Jan 19, 2010 1:12 PM PST reply actions  

The last point sent chills down my spine.

What a great, young, solid core to build around. In my 29 years, I don’t know if I could have dreamt up a better scenario for my hometown team.

by seattle_since_81 on Jan 19, 2010 1:13 PM PST reply actions  

Ichiro is ageless

I challenge you to find a 36 year old who enjoys tickling that much*

*-That isn’t loading large bags of candy into his windowless van at Costco

Rooting for lovable losers since 1984.

by seattlecougar on Jan 19, 2010 1:25 PM PST up reply actions  

Its hard to believe he already had a Japanese HOF career before he even got here.

And that he’s already been here 9 years. I’m starting to dread the day he declares that its time for the R-word. Thankfully that will probably be in another decade give or take a year.

by Menthu Ra on Jan 20, 2010 1:40 PM PST up reply actions  

Here's my question:

How much does the Felix signing have to do with Chavez devaluing the Bolivar by 50% last Friday?

I’m thinking Felix saw everybody freaking out around him, going out and trying to safeguard wealth by buying real assets like TV’s, Washers, Dryers, etc. He sees this crap going on and he thinks “I need to get as much money as I possibly can, and I need to get it now!” Hence the deal.

Thoughts?

by wobbly wobbly on Jan 19, 2010 1:26 PM PST reply actions  

Nothing at all

He will be paid in dollars

De Gutibus non disputandum est

by Bearskin Rugburn on Jan 19, 2010 1:28 PM PST up reply actions  

This

Athletes that play American sports get paid in American dollars.

by pdb on Jan 19, 2010 1:31 PM PST up reply actions  

Of course they do

but he has extended family living in Maracaibo.

by wobbly wobbly on Jan 19, 2010 1:32 PM PST up reply actions  

The extended family will not be paid at all

they do not play for the Mariners

De Gutibus non disputandum est

by Bearskin Rugburn on Jan 19, 2010 1:37 PM PST up reply actions  

I'm just sayin

That country is in chaos right now, financially and politically. He provides for his extended family…… I know it’s quite a leap.

by wobbly wobbly on Jan 19, 2010 1:42 PM PST up reply actions  

The point is about timing; if he signed the deal to get something *now* rather than wait it out

That is, would he have signed this deal 2 weeks ago? It’s a counterfactual that no one knows the answer to, but the whole “he’s paid in dollars” thing doesn’t address the original point, or at least what I interpreted the original point was…

by marc w on Jan 19, 2010 2:06 PM PST up reply actions  

Thank you marc

Chavez is also setting exchange rates differently for wealthier people transferring dollars in and out of the country. I think those rates will not be kind to a $80 million man.

by wobbly wobbly on Jan 19, 2010 2:09 PM PST up reply actions  

Except that the vicissitudes of Venezuelan currency have nothing to do with what he will get from the M's.

Felix knows that and if not his agent does. And as for psychological motivations – needing security now rather than later and so on – this line of questioning cannot lead anywhere.

De Gutibus non disputandum est

by Bearskin Rugburn on Jan 19, 2010 2:27 PM PST up reply actions  

The vicissitudes of the currency *could* impact his motivation to sign right now.

If you think the line of questioning is meaningless piffle, that’s fine, but again, saying “he’s paid in US dollars” doesn’t exactly shut off that line of questioning – it merely ignores it.

I’m not generally interested in armchair psychology, but when we’re talking about Felix, I’m a bit more, er, open-minded.

by marc w on Jan 19, 2010 2:36 PM PST up reply actions  

Welcome to the NW, Jeff.

As a transplant myself, you will learn to really love living here.

2009 Safeco Field Record: 6-0 ; Overall Safeco Field Record: 10-4

by Fin on Jan 19, 2010 1:39 PM PST reply actions  

But do watch for people being less outgoing than in other regions.

2009 Safeco Field Record: 6-0 ; Overall Safeco Field Record: 10-4

by Fin on Jan 19, 2010 1:39 PM PST up reply actions  

You're refering to the 'Seattle Freeze', I'm assuming.

Did you fall in love with Miguel Batista? And he rejected you?

by melenious on Jan 19, 2010 2:10 PM PST up reply actions  

Yes, I had forgotten that term but that's exactly what I mean.

People will be polite to you, but then they do not really make any effort in knowing you or befriending you.

2009 Safeco Field Record: 6-0 ; Overall Safeco Field Record: 10-4

by Fin on Jan 19, 2010 2:28 PM PST up reply actions  

Okay, but to defend Seattle

You are absolutely right that people don’t go out of your way to get to know you, but no one dislikes other people. They just don’t need them around because they are satisfied with the people they already know. I don’t think it’s a conscious effort to not enjoy the company of new people.

...and now I'm here

by CapSea on Jan 19, 2010 2:30 PM PST up reply actions  

That is true. I do not think its intentional

Its just obvious enough that people have coined a term for this.

2009 Safeco Field Record: 6-0 ; Overall Safeco Field Record: 10-4

by Fin on Jan 19, 2010 2:31 PM PST up reply actions  

Absolutely. Visit any other city for a day and the number of non-drunk people that try to talk to you is astounding.

In Seattle it’s so rare that you know there must be something wrong with the person, and you’ll usually be right.

...and now I'm here

by CapSea on Jan 19, 2010 2:33 PM PST up reply actions  

I think people thought there was something wrong with me when I attempted to be outgoing after first moving here.

Now I’ve kind of been beaten into submission to where I conform with this Seattle friendly/unfriendliness.

2009 Safeco Field Record: 6-0 ; Overall Safeco Field Record: 10-4

by Fin on Jan 19, 2010 2:35 PM PST up reply actions  

Well, it's a rightfully deserved defense mechanism now.

As I said, people are not generally outgoing, so if someone is outgoing (thus deviating from the cultural norm) there is a good chance they’re a little funky in the head. And I’d say in like 95% of cases, that’s accurate. The people that are normal have learned to keep to themselves, because it is more common for normal people to follow the social rules of the city.

...and now I'm here

by CapSea on Jan 19, 2010 2:37 PM PST up reply actions  

Don't succumb to it! Everywhere I go I meet interesting people.

Then occasionally certain friends talk about how they never meet anybody interesting. Whenever that point in the conversation comes up I just stare at them.

by Kermit. on Jan 19, 2010 2:51 PM PST up reply actions  

I totally agree.

Usually I give people the benefit of doubt but most times the conversation starts to take a turn and I begin to reach for my purse to find my pepper spray.

Did you fall in love with Miguel Batista? And he rejected you?

by melenious on Jan 19, 2010 3:09 PM PST up reply actions  

I guess I will avoid you at the next LL event then.

2009 Safeco Field Record: 6-0 ; Overall Safeco Field Record: 10-4

by Fin on Jan 19, 2010 3:11 PM PST up reply actions  

Unless you tell me you want to tie me up and beat the living hell out of me

I assure you the pepper spray will not be needed.

Did you fall in love with Miguel Batista? And he rejected you?

by melenious on Jan 19, 2010 3:24 PM PST up reply actions  

It's not "fear of confrontation with anyone new"

It’s the respect of leaving you the fuck alone. When I go other places I can’t believe how often random strangers seem to think I’m interested in their boring pathetic lives and their stupid ignorant opinions; even worse, they frequently seem to think my life and opinions are going to be somehow interesting to them. It’s called small talk for a reason: it’s all a huge waste of everyone’s time. I’m always so glad to get back to Seattle where I can go out to a restaurant or a bar or a coffee shop and not have to talk to anyone beyond ordering my food or drink.

by wandergeist on Jan 20, 2010 2:19 AM PST up reply actions   1 recs

Very very well said
Learning about other people is the only path to truly understanding the world in general. If you close yourself off like this for the rest of your life your brain will atrophy.

by Dewey N on Jan 20, 2010 9:37 AM PST up reply actions  

I largely (almost 100%, really) agree with Sec 108

but I think the key is being able to figure out when people want to be left alone and not taking it as a personal affront. I don’t think the NW is unfriendly, and in general people will engage you in conversation if there’s a mutual interest, but we are very good at picking up on social cues.

by Aaron Campeau on Jan 20, 2010 6:33 PM PST up reply actions  

That's not nice;

that’s dangerously passive.

by Matthew on Jan 19, 2010 2:40 PM PST up reply actions   2 recs

Haha, true. Thats a better term

But I bet Jeff’s chances of dying in an accident drop by about 500% since people in California can’t drive worth shit.

by Edgar for Pres on Jan 19, 2010 2:42 PM PST up reply actions  

So he'll gain 5 lives every time he goes driving?

Life isn’t a video game, son.

angels fan in seattle

by Eyebrows on Jan 19, 2010 2:44 PM PST via mobile up reply actions  

This happens in Portland when the sun is overly bright.

We have traffic jams because of sunshine. It’s hard to believe until you experience it for yourself.

by PDXTai on Jan 20, 2010 9:32 AM PST up reply actions   1 recs

This happens all the time on the 520 as well.

Though to be fair, the sun can be blinding during certain angles. It still doesn’t beat hearing “traffic slow on 520 westbound due to unusual sunshine” on the traffic report.

by Matthew on Jan 20, 2010 10:44 AM PST up reply actions  

Better than how 1-90 slows down for the dip to the floating bridge

That causes a traffic back all the way through Mercer Island.

by Robert on Jan 20, 2010 1:25 PM PST up reply actions  

The hills are a killer at sunrise/sunset and no one buys sunglasses because hey, Portland.

It's hard to convince people to let you eat them if you're an asshole. - Thingray

by Faux on Jan 20, 2010 10:44 AM PST up reply actions  

Really? Who knew?

Maybe I never noticed sunglasses on people until after I left the PNW.

It's hard to convince people to let you eat them if you're an asshole. - Thingray

by Faux on Jan 20, 2010 11:03 AM PST up reply actions  

The reason why this happens is because a lot of people have to buy a new pair every summer

because they lost them during the winter. Whereas in LA, people are able to wear their sunglasses year round, so they don’t lose them as often.

by seattle_since_81 on Jan 20, 2010 1:31 PM PST up reply actions  

Lost them, or they got buried under something and broke.

"Ever tried? Ever failed? No matter. Try again. Fail again. Fail better." - Samuel Beckett http://mvn.com/marinersminors/

by JY on Jan 20, 2010 1:33 PM PST up reply actions  

Bookmark this comment

you can use it every day here between now and June!

by pdb on Jan 19, 2010 2:46 PM PST up reply actions   1 recs

I went through there less than 5 minutes before

That was the day I quit my job!

I want to poop at your house - Thingray

by tootthekazoo on Jan 19, 2010 8:49 PM PST up reply actions  

This was two blocks from my place

I talked to a bunch of the kids on both the buses. They were yelling at the driver the whole time the idiot was headed down that street (and the whole time he was wandering around on Capitol Hill, for that matter). The crazy thing was that the second bus had time to see that the first bus was doing something stupid, but he followed him down anyway and knocked him out over the freeway.

by wandergeist on Jan 20, 2010 2:07 AM PST up reply actions  

This is one of my favorite things about Oregon, or...was pre-2002

Is the fact that Speed Limit signs don’t wear the word “Limit.”

The sign has a different connotation without limit, even if the law is the same in practice. “Speed Limit 60” implies that you can’t go faster than 60, but slower is fine, when really it’s not. “Speed 60” implies that 60 is the speed you go to drive on this road, which to me is much better (unless it’s snowing).

Regrettably, a lot of municipalities in Oregon are replacing their “Speed” signs with “Speed Limit” signs since Oregon legalized it in 2002. I wish the reverse was true and the rest of the country would drop the word “Limit” from their speed limit signs

Determined, Jonesing Commentor

by Corco on Jan 19, 2010 5:40 PM PST up reply actions  

Too often people feel that it is a maximum only

which leads them to trying to self police the roads. Watch out for the people driving 60 in the far left lane trying to control the traffic around them.

by seattle_since_81 on Jan 19, 2010 5:43 PM PST up reply actions  

These people are the most dangerous people on the roads

I maintain that on freeways, the notion of “Keep Right Except to Pass” is THE MOST important law to follow, without any question at all.

It can be tricky on highly urban freeways, but the left lane should ALWAYS be moving faster than the rest of the flow of traffic, except at very peak rush-hour times

Determined, Jonesing Commentor

by Corco on Jan 19, 2010 5:47 PM PST up reply actions  

I've been behind people going 55 in the carpool lane before.

If you’re going to 55, what’s the fucking point of using the carpool lane? Seattle can be so annoying.

by BrettJMiller on Jan 19, 2010 5:48 PM PST up reply actions  

I've argued with people about this.

Their contention is always that the carpool lane isn’t necessarily a fast lane; it’s merely a lane for multi-person vehicles that just happens to be on the far left end of the road.

by katal on Jan 19, 2010 7:24 PM PST up reply actions  

They would be incorrect

The SOLE intent of the carpool lane is so that it will move faster than the flow of traffic during rush hour. In which case it’s moving faster than the flow of traffic, and that’s fine

Determined, Jonesing Commentor

by Corco on Jan 19, 2010 7:25 PM PST up reply actions  

Road designers would be absolutely retarded and completely ignoring every established safety protocol

If they asked slow moving traffic to cut through fast moving traffic to get to their lane

Determined, Jonesing Commentor

by Corco on Jan 19, 2010 7:29 PM PST up reply actions  

Only due to design constraints

And to appease carpool lanes, which has nothing to do with road designers but if I were to explain why it would get political, if that explains why

Determined, Jonesing Commentor

by Corco on Jan 19, 2010 8:17 PM PST up reply actions  

That's the problem; it has nothing to do with speed limit

It has to do with speed of flow of traffic.

If traffic is moving at 80 MPH in the right lanes, it doesn’t matter if you’re going 60 in the leftmost lane even if it’s the posted speed limit, you’re a danger on the roadway.

If traffic is moving at 10 MPH in the rightmost lanes and 30 MPH in the carpool lane, then the leftmost lane is moving fastest relative to flow of traffic, and that’s not dangerous

Determined, Jonesing Commentor

by Corco on Jan 19, 2010 7:38 PM PST up reply actions  

Speed limits are an arbitrary design

The actual safety on the roadway accounted for by people designing the roads is that the inner lane should move fastest, no matter what.

You don’t cut through lanes moving faster than you to get to a slower lane. This is applied in every single country in the world, for good reason. Because it works.

Determined, Jonesing Commentor

by Corco on Jan 19, 2010 7:41 PM PST up reply actions  

You really think so?

I think everybody I’ve talked to from around the country has agreed CA drivers are some of the worst they’ve seen.

by Edgar for Pres on Jan 19, 2010 2:55 PM PST up reply actions  

Yeah Berkeley = International Students = asians

I can’t speak for SoCal. Can’t they just cut this state in half already so that I can make broad sweeping statments about where I live that make sense.

by Edgar for Pres on Jan 19, 2010 2:57 PM PST up reply actions  

Oh further evidence

I just got a car down here and called to get insurance. The guy on the phone chuckled and said I qualified for a good driver discount and said he was surprised since he didn’t see many of those in California so my opinion isn’t totally based on my personal road rage experiences down here.

by Edgar for Pres on Jan 19, 2010 2:59 PM PST up reply actions  

According to an insurance survey in like 2006, drivers in the state of Idaho are the best in the country

I refuse to believe this is true. They’re excellent on snow, but put them in a city and it’s ridiculous. I know 50 year old Idaho natives that are excellent drivers in adverse conditions, but get flustered driving around Boise. Boise!

Insurance Companies and the truth are two separate things.

Determined, Jonesing Commentor

by Corco on Jan 19, 2010 4:51 PM PST up reply actions  

Obviously this is just my experience,

but Los Angeles is the only city where I’ve experienced more frustrating rush-hour traffic than Boise.

by Teej on Jan 19, 2010 5:19 PM PST up reply actions  

It's because Boise drivers (especially the Canyon County commuters)

all are blissfully unaware that their city is big now and still haven’t figured out how to drive in a larger city

Also, because Boise boomed so quickly, I-84 is a disaster, or at least was a couple years ago. It was just sort of a bypass before, then it suddenly got shoved into primary commuter artery service. They’re working really hard on it right now though, and that should make things better.

Determined, Jonesing Commentor

by Corco on Jan 19, 2010 5:24 PM PST up reply actions  

There's also a neat mix of driving styles

You have lots of Denver immigrants, who drive really fast and like idiots for no reason, lots of Californian immigrants, who drive really fast but not like idiots, lots of Seattle/Portland immigrants, who, well, drive like pansies, lots of Salt Lake drivers who have no real reason to drive like idiots but do anyway (here in Wyoming, we give Utah, Colorado, and Texas plates lots of extra space when the roads are bad…despite that Utah and Colorado drivers should know how to drive in snow, they remarkably have no idea…Texans obviously get a free pass (they have no reason to know), as would most Washingtonians), and then lots of people who have no clue whatsoever how to drive in a city, which makes it fun!

Determined, Jonesing Commentor

by Corco on Jan 19, 2010 6:00 PM PST up reply actions  

California drivers are batshit scary if you're not used to them

But drive for 30 minutes in SoCal and it’s not so bad once you realize that they drive really aggressively, but predictably aggressively

I’d say they’re actually pretty good- SoCalers are the best mergers in the country, hands down

Determined, Jonesing Commentor

by Corco on Jan 19, 2010 4:49 PM PST up reply actions  

I actually do like driving on the freeway in CA

Everybody drives nice and fast. I think people tend to be more focused and like you said, are predictably aggressive.

by Edgar for Pres on Jan 19, 2010 4:56 PM PST up reply actions  

The key is to not give off any outward signs of impending movement

Where as a typical Seattle lane change might go-

Activate turn signal
Check mirror
Look over your shoulder
Change Lanes

an LA one needs to go
Check mirror
Lean forward in mirror to check your blind spot (if you look over your shoulder it’s clear you intend to change lanes, and then you’re a pussy)
Activate signal
Move car before the guy behind you gets a chance to speed up. Your signal shouldn’t flash more than twice

Determined, Jonesing Commentor

by Corco on Jan 19, 2010 4:58 PM PST up reply actions   1 recs

Also don't move to the edge of the lane before changing lanes- that's a sign of weakness

As long as you don’t hesitate and show no signs of giving a shit about the other cars around you (even if you actually do, and you should, the key is to be subtle) it’s pretty easy

Determined, Jonesing Commentor

by Corco on Jan 19, 2010 5:05 PM PST up reply actions  

haha, I like it

Yeah I think a typical NW driver probably eases into the lane they are going into for about 2-3 seconds. In comparison, everything else looks like Indy cars.

by Edgar for Pres on Jan 19, 2010 5:20 PM PST up reply actions  

I actually miss driving in Seattle sometimes

On I-25 north of Denver where the average flow of traffic is like 85 and everyone tailgates I actually have to be slightly aggressive, rather than just being slightly aggressive on I-5 for fun to scare Seattle drivers

Determined, Jonesing Commentor

by Corco on Jan 19, 2010 4:46 PM PST up reply actions  

Driving west of Denver was an interesting experience

after going through Wyoming and being the only car on the road sometimes.

I don’t know if Denver drivers are unpredictably aggressive so much as maybe irrationally. When I see cars going ~90 and weaving in between semis that have their flashers on as though it were the most natural thing in the world, even I get a little intimidated.

"Ever tried? Ever failed? No matter. Try again. Fail again. Fail better." - Samuel Beckett http://mvn.com/marinersminors/

by JY on Jan 19, 2010 6:51 PM PST up reply actions  

My main concern is that you'll be going 85 in a line of cars

And then, without hitting any other cars or an interchange, you suddenly find yourself going 55 for no apparent reason.

I’ve never seen drivers with less of a grasp of speed control

Determined, Jonesing Commentor

by Corco on Jan 19, 2010 7:16 PM PST up reply actions  

But you're right

Where my parents live in Idaho, the primary access is via a windy state highway that follows a river canyon.

 A good chunk of the travelers are from Colorado.

The most common demographic that ends up in the river, dead, are mid-40s Colorado males driving pickup trucks with snowmobile/boat trailers. They simply drive too fast on mountain roads.

Determined, Jonesing Commentor

by Corco on Jan 19, 2010 7:20 PM PST up reply actions  

I will say that for a couple years I drove a 15 passenger van routinely on the freeways in Tacoma/Seattle

And when you’re driving a large vehicle Seattle drivers really become a lot meaner- they do not want a 15 passenger van in front of them and will step up their agression significantly to prevent you from being allowed in in front of them

Determined, Jonesing Commentor

by Corco on Jan 19, 2010 5:30 PM PST up reply actions  

Driving I-5 from Tacoma to Seattle in a Chevy Express

is a significantly different and more difficult experience from doing it in a 2002 Jeep Liberty or a 1990 Dodge Colt

Determined, Jonesing Commentor

by Corco on Jan 19, 2010 5:43 PM PST up reply actions  

Good

Determined, Jonesing Commentor

by Corco on Jan 19, 2010 5:40 PM PST up reply actions  

I also find that by doing this they fear that you are someone crazy and thus get out of your way.

If someone does something worthy of a honk in Seattle, always honk. They’ll yield to you. I wouldn’t honk anywhere else I’ve driven though, because I value living.

by BrettJMiller on Jan 19, 2010 5:43 PM PST up reply actions  

I'm pretty horn heavy everywhere when people are being dipshits

Ironically, the only time I’ve ever had problems with it was in Tacoma.

One night I was on an onramp to get on Route 16 heading towards I-5, and some dipshit passed me and cut me off on the onramp with about 6 inches to spare. I honked my horn.

I got on 16. This car was in the right, I got in the left as the right was moving too slow for my tastes, then I-5 north, then got off at I-705. As I was on the offramp to I-705, this car appears out of nowhere, passes me, and slams on the brakes. I had to go from 65 to 10 in almost no time, and my brakes squealed.

That mofo was pissed I honked at him

Determined, Jonesing Commentor

by Corco on Jan 19, 2010 5:46 PM PST up reply actions  

What?

I found the people of Seattle to be off-puttingly friendly.

They’re far more outgoing than Canadians.

I like using semi-colons; they make me feel smart.

by Llewdor on Jan 19, 2010 4:24 PM PST up reply actions  

Seriously?

I haven’t met a mean Canadian. Not in Vancouver at least.

2009 Safeco Field Record: 6-0 ; Overall Safeco Field Record: 10-4

by Fin on Jan 19, 2010 5:06 PM PST up reply actions  

My boss is canadian.

And my high school basketball team only played canadian teams.

by Scruffy Lefty on Jan 20, 2010 12:54 PM PST up reply actions  

From what I've seen

At least half of the Canadian customers at the Tulalip outlet mall are Vancouver Chinese. The men go to the casino while the wives shop. I’m not saying that correlates to rudeness; I’m saying the sample at the Tulalip outlet mall is not representative.

by wandergeist on Jan 20, 2010 2:22 AM PST up reply actions  

As a native of Seattle and current resident

I’d have to say we’re friendly and pretty chill but as far as making friends, all of mine are from my childhood or high school days. It could also be because I’m generally pretty distrusting of most people.
On a high note though, I’d have to say Seattle folks are a helpful bunch.

Did you fall in love with Miguel Batista? And he rejected you?

by melenious on Jan 19, 2010 4:46 PM PST up reply actions  

That's what I think it is

I think people have the same friends from childhood, so they do not see the need to reach out to someone they aren’t familiar with, therefore, the Seattle freeze.

2009 Safeco Field Record: 6-0 ; Overall Safeco Field Record: 10-4

by Fin on Jan 19, 2010 5:07 PM PST up reply actions  

I've tried to explain this phenomenon to others.

It doesn’t usually go over that well, and it’s only since I’ve moved away that I realized how odd this is.

"Ever tried? Ever failed? No matter. Try again. Fail again. Fail better." - Samuel Beckett http://mvn.com/marinersminors/

by JY on Jan 19, 2010 6:55 PM PST up reply actions  

It's happening to me now.

It’s not really intentionally, it’s just that when you get in a new group of people that all don’t really want to talk to each other more than maybe saying hi it’s difficult to make any sort of lasting friendship.

by Mariner John on Jan 19, 2010 7:37 PM PST up reply actions  

All I can say is that it takes time.

Really. Stick around for awhile and you might find yourself pleasantly surprised.

Did you fall in love with Miguel Batista? And he rejected you?

by melenious on Jan 19, 2010 8:18 PM PST up reply actions  

Interestingly

I’ve seen this term applied more to the dating scene but that’s for another day and thread.

Did you fall in love with Miguel Batista? And he rejected you?

by melenious on Jan 19, 2010 8:44 PM PST up reply actions  

Absolutely. On both counts, since this thread would be off topic.

But yes, to your original point, absolutely if not more so.

...and now I'm here

by CapSea on Jan 19, 2010 9:30 PM PST up reply actions  

This is why I moved

Determined, Jonesing Commentor

by Corco on Jan 19, 2010 8:45 PM PST up reply actions  

"It could also be because I’m generally pretty distrusting of most people."

That’s true of the NW in general. Afterall, this is the land of serial killers — and if they’re not home grown, they come up to visit like the Hillside Strangler.

by wandergeist on Jan 20, 2010 2:24 AM PST up reply actions  

Though lately

It just seems to be random stabbings and shootings by the mentally deranged, and not just of cops (though they’ve been taking the brunt of it).

by wandergeist on Jan 20, 2010 2:25 AM PST up reply actions  

I imagine Jeff will miss seeing girls walking around in bikinis.

 I’m not gonna say NW people are ugly but I would say we are not the most beautiful people ever. I think it has something to do with not caring what people think and not seeing the sun.

And during his first winter here will become severely depressed. Sunny every day to not seeing the sun for 6 months will probably be traumatic. Just learn to not be a pussy and deal with it.

by Edgar for Pres on Jan 19, 2010 2:47 PM PST up reply actions  

Hey I spend 90% of my time in a basement or asleep in CA right now

and when I went home for Christmas I was amazed how grey and depressing the weather was. The best way I can describe it is that its like dusk all day long.

On the plus side, the rain and jet stream make it so that there is pretty much no pollution so the air quality is fabulous.

by Edgar for Pres on Jan 19, 2010 2:52 PM PST up reply actions  

Only piece of advice I ever give people about enjoying the PNW.

Go outside even if it is raining. It is the only way to stay sane.

by Sec 108 on Jan 19, 2010 3:07 PM PST up reply actions   1 recs

Yeah I just haven't met many people who are from southern california

who learn to love the rain. I could tell a lot of the people at UW from CA got depressed that first winter they were here.

by Edgar for Pres on Jan 19, 2010 3:10 PM PST up reply actions  

"I’m not gonna say NW people are ugly..."

Well, then I will. Being one of them myself. But it happens pretty naturally: if you’re good-looking in the NW you move to NY to model or LA to act. Meanwhile, if you’re anywhere else in the country and looks aren’t your strong suit, you probably move to the NW.

by wandergeist on Jan 20, 2010 2:29 AM PST up reply actions  

There is nothing wrong with Northwest people.

The only difference is that they are neither tan, nor dress in a manner that one would describe as “sexy.” If they did, they would be equally as attractive as most non-LA/SF/NY/HI cities.

...and now I'm here

by CapSea on Jan 20, 2010 2:38 AM PST up reply actions  

That's kind of my point

“non-LA/SF/NY/HI cities” I’m not good-looking enough to be gay in Seattle. I’m not good-looking enough to be straight in San Francisco. Or LA. (NY is kind of an odd case, because if you’re ugly there you can go the artsy/intellectual route and claim a kind of perverse Woody Allen attractiveness. Or you can just have money. You see some pretty ugly guys with good looking gfs there. It’s kind of the opposite of Seattle: you see a lot of very plain women here with mountain-god bfs. It may just be a supply/demand thing, though: excess models and model-wannabes in NY; excess rock-climbing white-water paddling studs in Seattle)

I have to say the lack of makeup here is nice, though, from a truth-in-advertising perspective.

by wandergeist on Jan 20, 2010 3:03 AM PST up reply actions  

I think the women of Seattle are generally beautiful if you are willing to forgive the lack of flattering clothing.

And considering I’m one sexy mo’fo, I don’t see the problem with the men here either.

...and now I'm here

by CapSea on Jan 20, 2010 5:59 AM PST up reply actions  

Not to mention that, personally,

their personalities are a lot more attractive than those of the average LA/NY woman. We just need more puck bunnies in town.

by Matthew on Jan 20, 2010 10:53 AM PST up reply actions  

The average NY woman's personality is pretty bad.

"Ever tried? Ever failed? No matter. Try again. Fail again. Fail better." - Samuel Beckett http://mvn.com/marinersminors/

by JY on Jan 20, 2010 11:24 AM PST up reply actions  

Physical attraction is entirely subjective and so saying "women/men in City X are more attractive than women/men in City Y"

can never ever be seen as anything but personal opinion. For the record, the city with the most people I’ve found physically attractive per capita is almost certainly Portland.

by Aaron Campeau on Jan 20, 2010 6:37 PM PST up reply actions   2 recs

I feel like they don't try as hard in other ways like working out so that they can fit in a bikini

That’s ok though. Like mentioned below, I like that they don’t wear that much makeup and I think in general the personalities are better since they often are less superficial.

by Edgar for Pres on Jan 20, 2010 9:41 AM PST up reply actions  

Of course they don't.

Behavioral economics at work. There’s less opportunity to display your body in the PacNW due to the cloudier weather and colder beaches. Ergo, less incentive.

by Matthew on Jan 20, 2010 10:54 AM PST up reply actions  

Works both ways.

Did you fall in love with Miguel Batista? And he rejected you?

by melenious on Jan 20, 2010 7:31 PM PST up reply actions  

So since we're big fans of ambigously inappropriate.

I think we should change our site tagline to:

“Glory to the brave nation which shook off the yoke”

...and now I'm here

by CapSea on Jan 19, 2010 2:49 PM PST reply actions  

Tweet update:

@KenDavidoff: Felix ‘s deal with the M’s features escalator clauses based on Cy Young voting. Multiple CYAs=big raises in later years.

by msb on Jan 19, 2010 2:58 PM PST reply actions  

Welcome to Portland

maybe we can grab a beer at Belmont Station sometime.

by John Morgan on Jan 19, 2010 3:00 PM PST reply actions  

If you like Belmont Station

you’ll love the Green Dragon. About 40 taps, all rotating regularly and at least half local, and decent food as well. Belmont Station’s a great place to buy bottles but the GD is a really fun place to go drink.

by pdb on Jan 19, 2010 3:08 PM PST up reply actions  

And here I thought Spartacus wasn't hiring.

Portland is a charming city run by a drum circle. If you like culture, Portland is awesome, but if you like paved roads or an understandable tax code, you’re fucked.

by John Morgan on Jan 19, 2010 3:08 PM PST reply actions   1 recs

Crazy enough

Although I’m trying to avoid moving there – I may be working for a company in Portland.

by Scruffy Lefty on Jan 19, 2010 3:09 PM PST up reply actions  

How about that

Portland is hopping. We’re gonna rule this town!

by John Morgan on Jan 19, 2010 3:11 PM PST up reply actions  

Why would you want to avoid it?

We have people here whose job it is to pump your gas!

by pdb on Jan 19, 2010 3:11 PM PST up reply actions  

Wouldn't you prefer to pump your own gas?

I do. It drive me nuts waiting 5 min for some dipshit to make his way to my car.

by coasty141 on Jan 19, 2010 3:15 PM PST up reply actions  

I was being somewhat ironic

I actually hate that I can’t pump gas myself here.

by pdb on Jan 19, 2010 3:16 PM PST up reply actions  

you sure as hell don't have to tip them if your car doesn't require its windshield

to be cleaned but the retard feels the need to do it anyway. That should get a kick to the junk not a tip.

by coasty141 on Jan 19, 2010 3:21 PM PST up reply actions  

My brother was gas dude for a while

before he retreated into the New Hampshire foothills perhaps never to be seen again.

by John Morgan on Jan 19, 2010 3:19 PM PST up reply actions  

I never have

but I don’t carry cash. I’m not Mr. Pink, but I don’t go out of my way to tip people.

by John Morgan on Jan 19, 2010 3:22 PM PST up reply actions  

Agreed.

I’ve always wondered what they print in those things. But I can use that dollar for parking on Sundays now.

by wilsonpdx on Jan 19, 2010 6:18 PM PST up reply actions  

This is getting bleek.

It’s already established that Teej and I share a brain, and it’s fairly clear that SB and I do as well. By transitive property of brain sharing, we’re all working with a quarter.

by abender20 on Jan 19, 2010 3:20 PM PST up reply actions  

The clever thing

Is that they made the state large enough that it’s difficult to drive through without stopping for gas. Which means if you’re trying to travel between the actually legitimate and useful states of Washington and California, you have to stop somewhere in Oregon and employ someone.

One thing I’ve noticed about the gas dudes, though: if your car is nice enough and you get out as soon as you pull up, they pull the nozzle out of the pump and then hand it to you to put in the tank so there’s no risk of them messing up the car. Either they’ve learned from experience or it’s an explicit policy, but they obey the letter of the law without chancing an irate customer.

by wandergeist on Jan 20, 2010 1:56 AM PST up reply actions  

So what is the worst thing about San Diego

I have a couple of friends who live down there and love it. Is there anything actually bad about it.

by Edgar for Pres on Jan 20, 2010 6:00 PM PST up reply actions  

I'm confused

by this “great beer but everything rolls up at 5 pm” theme. It does not make sense to me.

"Ever tried? Ever failed? No matter. Try again. Fail again. Fail better." - Samuel Beckett http://mvn.com/marinersminors/

by JY on Jan 20, 2010 7:24 PM PST up reply actions  

The Mariners sign closer David Aardsma for $2.75 Mil

The Red Sox sign closer Jonathan Papelbon for $9.35 Mil. Talk about the value that the Mariners are getting for a pitcher to finish games. I can almost guarantee you Aardsma will be long gone in a trade before the Mariners ever pay him $9.35 Mil per year.

by Coug1990 on Jan 19, 2010 3:09 PM PST reply actions  

LL has been so great at content lately, it is hard to keep up

The difference is that every one in Portland is stoned. They are looking to change the Washington law and legalize pot, so their won’t be a big difference soon.

by Coug1990 on Jan 19, 2010 3:21 PM PST up reply actions  

Except you can go to a ballgame stoned in Seattle,

whereas in Portland you can… eat a donut with bacon on it.

by DrewManchu on Jan 19, 2010 5:29 PM PST up reply actions  

That would be the ultimate.

…not that there isn’t plenty of good stoner food at Safeco already.

by DrewManchu on Jan 19, 2010 5:40 PM PST up reply actions  

But some food is better stoner food than other food

So a relative scale must be made, and that is how some food could be classified as “good stoner food” and some could be classified as “bad stoner food”

by Dewey N on Jan 19, 2010 6:21 PM PST up reply actions  

I've never been a big fan of salad when stoned

You need meat or something equally filling goddammit

Pretzels and chicken nuggets are the best

Determined, Jonesing Commentor

by Corco on Jan 19, 2010 7:30 PM PST up reply actions  

Especially J-Box tacos

Determined, Jonesing Commentor

by Corco on Jan 19, 2010 7:54 PM PST up reply actions  

That is what I was thinking when I wrote it

I keep on thinking of the stoner ordering 99 tacos

by Coug1990 on Jan 19, 2010 7:57 PM PST up reply actions  

One of the few things I miss about living in Seattle

Is that I am now 110 miles from J-Box. I used to live 10 blocks from J-Box. When I was stoned/drunk, a 3 block trip was so much easier to make than a 110 mile trip (which, frankly, is too far to even try to make)

Determined, Jonesing Commentor

by Corco on Jan 19, 2010 7:58 PM PST up reply actions  

Even for a case of serious munchies, that is too far of a trip

For me, the good news is that I live within 5-10 minutes of a half a dozen fast food restaurants. The bad news is that I live within 5-10 minutes of a half a dozen fast food restaurants.

by Coug1990 on Jan 19, 2010 8:04 PM PST up reply actions  

I live right in the fast food district of Laramie

My apartment shares a driveway with Wendy’s, which is right next door to Burger King, which is right across the street from McDonalds.

I can see a Taco John’s, a Taco Bell, an Arby’s, a Sonic, and a Carl’s Jr from my apartment complex plus two takeout Chinese places

It’s glorious for being intoxicated

Determined, Jonesing Commentor

by Corco on Jan 19, 2010 8:08 PM PST up reply actions  

When you were looking for an apartment, you planned well

As you know, we have no Sonic’s around here, restaurant or basketball wise (fuck you Bennett). The liquor store is located next to my gym, which is convenient because it burns the calories from drinking.

by Coug1990 on Jan 19, 2010 8:22 PM PST up reply actions  

See how this goes round and round and everything is related

This started by someone mentioning eating donuts with “bacon” on top and now you are eating Ritz Crackers with “bacon” flavored cheese on top.

It’s the Circle of Life.

by Coug1990 on Jan 19, 2010 8:53 PM PST up reply actions  

Dude

Determined, Jonesing Commentor

by Corco on Jan 19, 2010 8:55 PM PST up reply actions  

Ah, memories.

Did you fall in love with Miguel Batista? And he rejected you?

by melenious on Jan 19, 2010 8:23 PM PST up reply actions  

So I will be having near heart attacks again this year.

2009 Safeco Field Record: 6-0 ; Overall Safeco Field Record: 10-4

by Fin on Jan 19, 2010 3:13 PM PST up reply actions  

Arbitration Figures

link

Felix asked for $11.5M, the team offered $7.2M

Casey Kotchman asked for $3.9M, was offered $3.135M
Brandon League asked for $1.325M, was offered $0.9M

by Janic on Jan 19, 2010 4:00 PM PST reply actions  

Good news does come in threes

Congrats on the new job, Jeff.

Did you fall in love with Miguel Batista? And he rejected you?

by melenious on Jan 19, 2010 5:19 PM PST reply actions  

John Heyman with breakdown of Felix's pay

$3.5 mil signing bonus

2010: $6.5 mil
2011: $10.0 mil
2012: $18.5 mil
2013: $19.5 mil
2014: $20.0 mil

via Twitter

by Scrupio on Jan 19, 2010 6:51 PM PST reply actions  

Enjoy Portland, Jeffrey. Or Jeffingham. Or Jefferson.

Although I can never look at Oregonians the same way after reading Sometimes a Great Notion.

by .Taylor on Jan 19, 2010 7:52 PM PST reply actions  

Comments For This Post Are Closed


User Tools

By reading a game thread of your own volition you agree to accept all liability for any and all damage done to your delicate sensibilities.

FanPosts

Community blog posts and discussion.

Recommended FanPosts

Moar_bacon_small
Everything I Know About Jesus Montero

Recent FanPosts

Agentejebaox3_small
A Statistical Analysis of Mariners' Fan Support
Small
Who will have a better season?
Claw_small
BA's Top 10 M's Prospects
Wbc_029_small
Friday Morning Music Thread
Small
Munenori Kawasaki Predictions!!!
Small
The Longevity and Future Success of Felix Hernandez.
Small
The present vs future conundrum
Small
2012 Seattle Mariners: Playoff Team
Smell-the-glove_small
OT 1/24/12 - How Do You Survive Winter?

+ New FanPost All FanPosts >


Sexy People

Wbc_029_small Jeff Sullivan

Small Matthew