Lineup Analysis: 2009 and 2010
I was beaten to the punch on lineup simulations in the comments yesterday, I know. But since when have I let that stop me?
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As it stands, the Seattle Mariners are currently the proud owners of an improved offence over last year. Granted, that wasn't very hard to do, as the team scored an AL-low 640 runs en route to a lucky (by pythagorean standards) 85-77 finish. Current calculations have the team at around 40 runs better than last year's edition, which would imply that we're in for a whopping total of 680 runs scored next year, which would make us... still worse than the Royals. This, say many people, is a problem. Our offence is still going to suck, and we were lucky to be above .500 last year. The Mariners are going to struggle to compete in the AL West.
I feel that these people are being overly hasty in dismissing the team. Observe:
2009 Seattle Mariners: 640 runs; 3.95 R/G.
2009 Seattle Mariners run through a lineup simulator (optimal lineup): 710 runs; 4.382 runs per game.
Hmmmmmm. I used the actual numbers from each position, too, so it's not like we're totally neglecting the fact that Ronny Cedeno exists or that Mike Sweeney held down first base for a while. For those who are curious, I've included the optimal lineup below, including on-base-percentage and slugging.

Table 1: Optimal Lineup for the 2009 Mariners
It looks pretty familiar, actually. Ichiro up top is a no-brainer, and Wakamatsu was experimenting with Branyan at #2 a lot. Essentially, we didn't really deviate that far from an optimal lineup last year, and yet for some reason massively underperformed what we should have done even accounting for our frankly abysmal slash numbers. Not to go tumbling off on a tangent here, but it deserves saying again: our hitting was a total, total shambles last year. Four positions contrived to produce an OPS lower than .650, and two of those positions didn't even manage to reach the lofty peaks of .600. For comparison, Joey Gathright's career numbers would have been a significant improvement over our shortstops and left fielders last year. Yikes.
Anyway, for some reason, the Mariners scored less runs than they should have, by between 40-70 runs. The simplest explanation is one of non-clutchness (or luck, in other words). The 09 Mariners were completely incapable of stringing together hits in such a way as to actually score runs. Amazingly, this bad luck almost totally cancels out the good luck from winning all of those close games. Our record last year was fluky in such a way that it actually was a decent reflection of the team's talent. So, even without going into WAR or other advanced metrics, we have a much higher hitting base to build on than we thought we might.
Onto 2010. Bradley, Figgins, and Kotchman are in. Branyan and Beltre are out. I've given the 'expected lineup' my best shot, using CHONE for all the non-Ichiro batters and Ichiro's career average line (because projection systems suck at Ichiro). Unfortunately I don't have the patience to account for injuries, player days off, etc, so these numbers are going to be a touch optimistic (possibly countered by CHONE hating Figgins and Bradley).
2010 Seattle Mariners projected through a lineup simulator (optimal lineup): 758 runs; 4.676 runs per game.
And the lineup:

Table 2: Projected Optimal Lineup for the 2010 Mariners
First off, that's a weird looking lineup, and I doubt anyone's going to put Chone Figgins anywhere near the #9 spot. 751 runs would have been good for 9th in the league last year, and it's only 30 runs below league average, a much happier number than the -140 that we posted last season.
I'm going to knock off maybe 15 runs for our bench players filling in (remember, we're probably going to be adding another bat, so this is probably overly conservative) and run a quick pythag check on our wins, using our run prevention from last year and knocking it down a little bit because of CLIFF LEE WOOO. So, a back of the envelope guesstimate:
RS: 736
RA: 685
Pythag*: 0.528
Wins: 85
Not too bad for a conservative estimate, is it?
*Using Patriot's method.
PS: This would have looked much better with Matt Holliday.
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People that carryover totals from 2009 to projecting 2010 are wrong from the start.
Just start from scratch and you’ll avoid ever having this problem.
by Matthew on Jan 16, 2010 2:06 PM PST reply actions 1 recs
It seems that both of the optimal lineups have the worst hitter batting sixth.
Is there an explanation for this? It doesn’t seem logical to me, and it seems like most managers will stick a decent hitter in the #6 hole. Is there something mathy that justifies it, or is it just a coincidence for these two lineups?
by I Lick Squirrels on Jan 16, 2010 2:25 PM PST reply actions
It's to do with the structure of innings and the lineup
Essentially, if you are a hitter whose spot in the lineup is multiple of three, you’re going to see 2 out a little bit more often than your teammates (this effect is strongest for the #3 hitter). You want your #3 to be able to drive in the first two guys, and you want your #9 to be able to link up with the top of the order. The #6 guy doesn’t matter that much, although I’m surprised that the tool spat out Johnson for 2010 and Betancourt for 2009. However, the 6-7-8 hitters are so bad in both years though that you could swap them without noticing too much.
by Graham MacAree on Jan 16, 2010 2:32 PM PST up reply actions
One thing that has to be mentioned
Is that as much as we wish he’ll be relegated to a LH bat off the bench, Griffey will be starting atleast 70~ games (and even thats conservative, he started in over 100 last year)
I’m not sure on the exact numbers, but that will more then likely drive down our runs scored.
I don't see any reason to believe this.
by Aaron Campeau on Jan 16, 2010 3:01 PM PST up reply actions
I don't see any reason to belive otherwise
He was the DH last year and I’ve yet to hear any report that says he wont be this year.
It seems to me that it was made quite clear when he re-signed that his role would be dramatically reduced.
by Aaron Campeau on Jan 16, 2010 3:09 PM PST up reply actions
Where would one find this
I’ve seen reports saying he’ll take any role needed for the club, but I don’t see anything saying he’ll be doing less next year.
Well of course he's not going to put it as bluntly as that
But read between the lines. Why even mention your willingness to play any role Wakamatsu sees fit unless you’re acknowledging it’s probably going to be a diminished one?
Every indication is that he will be looking at a much reduced role in 2010
If you want to believe otherwise, go for it, but at this point it’s opinion vs. opinion and an argument that won’t get anyone anywhere.
by Graham MacAree on Jan 16, 2010 4:27 PM PST up reply actions
But then you have to remember
For some games that Griffey DH’s, Bradley will be in LF that would be an improvement over Langerhans. So that should counteract that a bit
True
I just feel that too many of LLs projections seem to forget that we are going to be running out a replacement level player for half the games. Most depth charts has Griffey as the 25th man, and that’s just not going to happen.
Maybe I’m just being overly pessimistic, but we have to account for that.
A replacement level DH is an average hitter
by Graham MacAree on Jan 16, 2010 3:06 PM PST up reply actions
Yes and so including Griffey in the lineup means that you are adding an average hitter
I don’t see the problem here
by Graham MacAree on Jan 16, 2010 3:09 PM PST up reply actions
How are you determining that 'optimal lineup'?
It seems to be mostly a ranking of players from highest to lowest OBP (except for Figgins).
What lineup would you get by fllowing the lineup optimization from ‘The Book’ and putting the three best hitters 1st, 2nd and 4th, with the higher OBP guys at the top and SLG guy 4th?
I would expect this to result in something like:
Figgins
Ichiro
Guti
Bradley
Lopez
Kotchman
Langerhans
Johnson
Wilson
Does it do a quick simulation/calculation?
Or is it based on hard and fast rules? I don’t think it would take too much processing power to scan the 9! combinations to see how they work out, but it would take a little bit.
It tries out all possible combinations
by Graham MacAree on Jan 16, 2010 6:22 PM PST up reply actions
Like 1000 times each or something, right?
by nathaniel dawson on Jan 16, 2010 6:28 PM PST up reply actions
I think it uses probabilties for each possible event which occurs
A big probability tree I think.
by Edgar for Pres on Jan 16, 2010 9:38 PM PST up reply actions
I'm a little surprised Guit
is at #3 in the optimium lineup. Kotch has a higher OBP and Lopez has a higher SLG. I’m guessing the difference between any of those at the #3/#4/#5 spots is pretty minimal.
This, I think, is what he's mentioning
“Four positions contrived to produce an OBP lower than .650…”
Because if that is supposed to be OBP, I’m confused.
by Robert Lintott on Jan 16, 2010 4:30 PM PST up reply actions
Yes, sorry. When I wrote that I was running out.
You can delete this whole subthread if you like.
...and now I'm here
Gonzalez
It would be interesting to see what that tool would estimate for a straight-up Kotchman/Adrian Gonzalez replacement around midseason…
Interesting that going from this direction produces a slightly lower wins projection than going by player WAR
Wonder what it is. Are you being more conservative on the runs prevented front? I had a rosier 88 win true talent team dancing around in my imagination… Anyway, thanks for the post. Nice to see that the offense should end up somewhere near league average. April can’t come soon enough.
De Gutibus non disputandum est
by Bearskin Rugburn on Jan 16, 2010 4:36 PM PST reply actions
I'm being conservative more or less everywhere
I always do a conservative guess for quick analyses
by Graham MacAree on Jan 16, 2010 4:38 PM PST up reply actions
He just used run prevention from last year with a little adjustment for Lee.
The estimates they’ve done previously using WAR were derived using projected defensive contribution, playing time, and pitching from this years’ group.
by nathaniel dawson on Jan 16, 2010 5:32 PM PST up reply actions
Are you sure we want to start any contests?
It would probably have Johnson and Wilson near the top of the order, though.
Fantastic! Thanks, most of the time I have some kind of an idea how the players are going to work out.
With such a huge roster turnover in such a short period of time, half these guys are complete unknowns. This is great, kind of nice to have some kind of outline before the season kicks off.
... CHONE hating Figgins...
HAHAHAHHAHAHAhahahahahahahahahahaha…
Oh dear. Oh my. Whoo.
Breathe.
Do you think the team will hire him a therapist?
by Ike Clanton on Jan 16, 2010 6:25 PM PST reply actions 1 recs
How is that hating Figgins?
He never had much in the way of power. Remember these numbers don’t take baserunning into account, and that’s a big part of his game. He gets a win at least on his speed.
De Gutibus non disputandum est
by Bearskin Rugburn on Jan 16, 2010 8:29 PM PST up reply actions
Whoosh.
From article:
(possibly countered by CHONE hating Figgins and Bradley).
CHONE is named after Chone Figgins.
...and now I'm here
Whoosh
Clanton is implying that CHONE gives Figgins a poor projection, while I think it’s entirely fair.
De Gutibus non disputandum est
by Bearskin Rugburn on Jan 17, 2010 6:24 AM PST up reply actions
Oh, Graham's article...
yeah neither of those projections is that bad
De Gutibus non disputandum est
by Bearskin Rugburn on Jan 17, 2010 6:25 AM PST up reply actions
Nice job with the runs scored projection! What would a good runs allowed projection look like?
With our adjusted runs allowed of 664 in 2009, plus Kotchman, and a full season of Jack Wilson, Snell, and the Aussie, as well as League as the primary set up man instead of Lowe, could we get it down to 600?


















