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Around SBN: Devils Beat Rangers, Head To Stanley Cup Finals

A Thought

This isn't particularly topical or relevant to anything going on, but on the other hand, there's nothing going on, so what the hell.

I watch a lot of hockey. My favorite team is, and has pretty much always been, the Ottawa Senators. The Ottawa Senators are okay. They were playing decent hockey up until a little while ago, when Jason Spezza - arguably their best playmaker - got hurt. Shortly thereafter, Daniel Alfredsson - the team's best player and one of the top overall players in the league - also got hurt. Ottawa was faced with the reality of having to play without two of its only A-level players for a long long time, and being that they were already only an average or above-average team at full strength, many predicted that the loss of two stars would sneak up behind the team's playoff chances, club them in the head, drag them into the alley, cut them open, drain their blood, replace their blood with gasoline, and light them on fire. There was just no way this team could survive such a devastating duo of blows.

Ottawa's played four games since losing Alfredsson. They've won three and didn't look too bad in the loss.

The Ottawa example, of course, doesn't prove anything. But it does provide a convenient lead-in to something I want to talk about a little bit.

By now, most baseball fans - or at least most baseball fans on the internet - have at least a cursory understanding of win value. The availability of WAR on Fangraphs has been of immeasurable service towards this end, as message boards that five years ago would've been talking up Jose Lopez's RBI now use numbers like WAR to argue why Jason Bay's a bad buy. Though the levels of understanding vary and misuses and misinterpretations abound, by and large, people are beginning to understand, say, what it means to be a 4 WAR player. They get that Chone Figgins is better than Chris Woodward by about four wins, and they use this information to help project how a team looks going forward.

However, while people are getting better when it comes to knowing just how much a given player is worth over the course of a season, there appears to me to be a disconnect when it comes to understanding the importance of a player over a smaller sample of time. Obviously I can't point to any current baseball examples, but just going off of things I've observed - consider what this place would be like if it came out tomorrow that Felix Hernandez would miss the first month of the year. There'd be hysteria. There'd be a few cries of "season over!", and though that's clearly overdramatic, there'd be a lot of ruminating over how significant an effect the news would have on our playoff chances. People would not take it well.

The truth of the matter, of course, is that Felix is a 5-6 WAR player. As a 5-6 WAR player, then, we should expect a month-long absence to cost the team about one win. One win is small. Significant, but small. And yet, even on a site like this - one of the more stat-friendly and stat-literate sites on the web - people would blow the effect out of proportion. It's like the average person has embraced the meaning of WAR without really, truly, deeply understanding what it means.

Remember when Adrian Beltre missed all of July? The M's were three out of the division at the time, and everyone was freaking out that we were screwed. All that actually cost us, though - at least in theory - was about half a win or so.

Injuries and absences hurt, but by and large, the impact is overstated, and this is perhaps never as clear as it is when a manager chooses to sit one or two of his good players for a game. People hate when a manager benches someone good. They hate it. Even if the player just needs a day off. Imagine if Wak were to, I dunno, sit both Chone Figgins and Franklin Gutierrez. People would accuse Wak of throwing the game, giving up before getting going. The actual impact, though, depending on the substitutes, would be something like 0.4 runs (note: approximate). Losing 0.4 runs would drop the Mariners' win expectancy by about 4%. The win expectancy impact of allowing a leadoff single is also about 4%.

How much do you really hate giving up leadoff singles?

This post has gone on longer than I expected it to, and I don't really have a proper conclusion. It's more something I've just had on my mind while watching Ottawa continue to play good hockey these last few days. I guess the best way to sum everything up is this: no matter how much you like a player, and no matter how good he may be, he is only one member of a much larger team, and as such, being without him for any length of time isn't as bad as you may fear. If Pete Sampras got hurt, that'd really suck for Pete Sampras' winning percentage. But if Cliff Lee got hurt, the Mariners would still find a way to go on. They'd go on worse, but they'd go on, and it wouldn't be the end of the world.

Teams. While sports fans talk about individual players all the time, teams are ultimately what matter, and teams are but the sum of several parts. Though you're free to talk about how awesome a player is to your heart's content, you should try to never lose sight of just how little that one player actually matters, unless it's Ichiro. 

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Well put

I think a lot of the reason for that is the emotional attachments we form to our best players lead us to elevate their status in our minds such that we might overestimate their value on a day to day basis versus the value of the rest of the value the team provides collectively.

by OlSalty on Jan 1, 2010 8:26 PM PST reply actions  

A related thought

If Chone Figgins got hurt for the season on Opening Day, most people (here) would have little trouble knocking off three or four wins in their minds.

If Chone Figgins got hurt for three months on Opening Day, I’m guessing most people (here) would, at least initially, have little trouble knocking off three or four wins in their minds.

by Jeff Sullivan on Jan 1, 2010 8:29 PM PST reply actions  

But this reminds me of a show I watch regularly.

On the biggest loser, it varies how much pounds of weight a contestant loses on a given week. Sometimes they will lose as little as 2 or 3 pounds after a week of getting their ass kicked, and sometimes it will be as much as 20 or 25 pounds in a single week. Those kind of numbers seems almost impossible in the real world.

Every week there will be some sort of challenge. Sometimes the prize is a monetary prize, sometimes the prize is immunity, sometimes the prize is a new car. But other times, the prize will be an extra pound counted towards the weight lost that week. Whenever that prize is on the table, there is always a sense of urgency amongst the contestants to win it, even the bigger guys that put up double digit weight losses every week. The reason why it is a big deal is that sometimes one pound can save the player from falling below the yellow line, which means they will be up for elimination, since the ranking is based on percentage of weight loss, rather than just the numbers for obvious reasons. Most of the time, the pound doesn’t make much of a difference, but there are times when 1 pound makes all the difference in the world. That difference is basically either being eliminated or coming back the next week and putting up a big number and eventually winning the Biggest Loser.

How this relates to baseball and your post is that while 3-4 wins sounds meager in the context you put it in, 3-4 wins, or even 2 wins, could mean either making the playoffs or ending the season early. Most likely, it won’t, but there is a chance that it will, which is why people panic when a star worth multiple WAR gets injured.

2009 Safeco Field Record: 6-0 ; Overall Safeco Field Record: 10-4

by Fin on Jan 1, 2010 10:45 PM PST up reply actions  

The good news is...

Buffalo was going to win the division regardless. : )

by Slica on Jan 1, 2010 9:57 PM PST up reply actions  

If Miller can keep being awesome, anyway.

Team USA is hoping he can singlehandedly make up for a weak everything-else too, we’ll see what happens.

Look upon my 62% faceoff win rate, ye mortals, and despair!

by Orion Moony on Jan 3, 2010 4:32 PM PST up reply actions  

He is one of the best in the league.

At his position, anyway. Really spectacular wingers are kind of a rarity these days. There’s a pretty major dropoff after Ovechkin, Nash, Kovalchuk, etc. I personally count Pat Kane in that just because he’s hilariously entertaining to watch. Most Ottawa fans would kill me for it, but it’s also hard to deny Heatley a place on top.

Daniel Alfredsson’s no scrub, though. Close to a thousand points on his career, reasonably good defensively, really only just starting to decline at 37. Not bad.

Additionally, I seem to have been drawn back to the INTERWEBZ after a prolonged absence. Hello again.

Look upon my 62% faceoff win rate, ye mortals, and despair!

by Orion Moony on Jan 3, 2010 4:30 PM PST up reply actions  

I'm just glad he's staying with Thornton for the Olympics.

Personally I’d be perfectly happy if both of them moved to the Eastern Conference again and stopped scoring against my team.

Look upon my 62% faceoff win rate, ye mortals, and despair!

by Orion Moony on Jan 4, 2010 6:00 AM PST up reply actions  

Can I guess?

It’s because we still talk in terms of absolutes. We call teams by their win number. For example, “The Mariners are an 84 win team.” An “84 win team” makes it sound like the team in skill level should win 84 games. But the reality is that 84 wins is:

a) Only based on the basic projection, but most projections also have an optimistic and pessimistic projection, not to mention dumb luck.
b) Is only the middle of the estimation. The reality is an 84 win team is a 76-92 win team or so, and that’s barring injury. The intervals are very high.
c) Wins are based on runs, but runs are spread out considerably over each game. The Mariners can lose one game 1-0, and win another game 51-0, and despite going 1 and 1, the skill level involved in both of those games (especially by the pitching) is considerable, and would make the team “worth” more wins than they achieved.

Not to mention that even when we compare teams, it’s not accurate. If the Angels are an 86 win team, and the Mariners are an 84 win team, in some ways this doesn’t mean that they are better than the Mariners, because if (for unknown reasons) some players on the Angels are more likely to perform at the pessimistic projections this upcoming year, than the Mariners are actually already better going into this upcoming year, even though one is considered 2 wins better.

This is just a long winded way of explaining my initial point, but when things are said in such absolute terms (The Mariners are worth X wins, etc.), it is somewhat easy to see why people get confused/upset, etc.

...and now I'm here

by CapSea on Jan 2, 2010 2:46 AM PST reply actions  

Often times

the overwhelming pessimism that came with say, losing Felix for a month, wasn’t based on any win projections or anything like that. The team became almost unwatchable for some without him these past few years.
With this post, as well as a greatly improved ballclub, I reckon we won’t be seeing as many epic meltdowns this year. But who am I kidding, I’ll still curse the baseball gods should any hard luck fall upon us

by CKel on Jan 2, 2010 10:07 AM PST reply actions  

Tiger's WAR

If you could get the timeline of Tigers mistresses’ and cross reference them with his tournement play, could you establish a WAR value for each mistress?

Have you seen my baseball?

by Scotch On The Rocks on Jan 2, 2010 3:52 PM PST reply actions  

Quick question, vaguely related to this thread...

When Endy went down last year, did it immediately register with most people that his going down was “only” like, what, 0.5 WAR for the rest of the season? Or was there a massive freakout?

Aaron King is still my homeboy... iffy mechanics and all

McFAQ for all you newcomers out there.

GET THAT VORP AND WHIP SH!T OUTTA HERE!!!

Whomever Sabean signs this off-season will make a good platoon partner with Ryan Gark-ohh... nevermind...

by baetown415 on Jan 2, 2010 6:00 PM PST reply actions  

Actually, I think you both understate and overstate the impact of injuries, but it all balances out....

This is the fallacy of WAR. It pretends that a players contribution is an independent event. It is not. It all takes place in a team concept. Griffey Jr. was better with Edgar behind him in the batting order. RRS is better not facing the staff ace.

So if Felix did go down for a month the overall effect likely would be much greater that the simple loss of his WAR value for that part of the season because it would also affect the matchups all the way around the rotation, and it would likely mean the bullpen would either or both a.) lose an arm to the rotation for the length of the injury, and/or b.) be required to pick up more innings due to less effective starting staff, c.) take a step down in competency due to promotion of a minor leaguer into the bullpen. Too much of the time I think people want to take a stat like WAR and treat baseball like a team is a linear function. This player plus this player plus this player means this many wins. It is way more complicated than that. That is why baseball is so cool.

The other thing to remember is that all of this statistical analysis takes place in a game in which the outcome of any particular game is seemingly only influenced by, and not dictated by, the players in the game. The best teams with somewhat over 60% of the time, while the bad teams win somewhere around 40% of the time. So if an injury causes a team to go from elite to mediocre, if the other players step it up a notch, it might not reflect much change in the standings though they are a clearly inferior team post-injury.

by Big Red Guy on Jan 5, 2010 9:41 AM PST reply actions  

All of those would be wonderful points were they really true.

Matthew’s linked you to an article discussing the myth of batter protection. Rotations get scrambled no matter what, so the only time that matchups really matter is in the first week of the season or the playoffs. WAR takes into account bullpen roles by using a tool known as chaining.

WAR simplifies a very complicated game, but that doesn’t make it inherently inaccurate. What would make it inacurate is… if it was shown to be inaccurate, which it is not. Therefore it is a very worthwhile tool in analysing baseball players and teams.

Also your last paragraph isn’t really related to Jeff’s point.

by Graham MacAree on Jan 5, 2010 11:15 AM PST up reply actions  

Also, Big Red Guy, this is an excellent first post.

While almost every regular commenter on LL will disagree with you about this (this topic has been exhaustively studied for by sabermetric types for 15 years, and the evidence overwhelmingly indicates that lineup protection has almost zero effect on the game, while the difference between the best and worst lineup is maybe 1 to 1.5 wins per season), you deserve respect for arguing your point respectfully, coherently, and by giving examples to explain your point.

by Decatur on Jan 6, 2010 2:22 AM PST up reply actions  

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