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OTFPOTD 8/03/09 - What Might Have Been Edition

Eyebrows_tiny by Eyebrows on Comment 880 comments

Holy crap - has everyone seen Baker's blog today? For those who love rosterbation, this is an insane story:

I'm told the Red Sox apparently approached the Mariners and first tried to do a Hernandez trade with Seattle exclusively. Boston wanted Hernandez and gave the Mariners a list of eight prospects, from which Seattle would be allowed to pick any five.

They included:

RHP Clay Buchholz
RHP Daniel Bard
RHP Justin Masterson
LHP Nick Hagadone
RHP Michael Bowden
LHP Felix Doubront
OF Josh Reddick
SS Yamaico Navarro

Seattle turned that down. But that was just the warm-up act to the blockbuster proposal that followed.

It has since come out that Epstein and Towers were discussing a trade that would send home run slugger Adrian Gonzalez to Boston. But wait. Apparently, Epstein wants Hernandez more than anybody, even Gonzalez.

So, the three teams start discussing a possible three-way deal with Seattle that would send Gonzalez to the Mariners, along with Buchholz and a couple of other Red Sox prospects.

The Red Sox would get Hernandez.

And the Padres would get Brandon Morrow, Phillippe Aumont and Carlos Triunfel from Seattle, along with a couple of other top Boston prospects.

I mean, holy crap what a huge trade that would have been. I know Felix is amazing and some around here would never trade him, but that is quite a haul. Would you have taken either deal?

Poll
Would you have done any of the aforementioned Felix trades?
Felix to Boston for a boatload of prospects.
58 votes
Felix for Adrian Gonzalez and a few Red Sox prospects.
32 votes
I WILL NEVER CONSENT TO A FELIX TRADE. BAD TOUCH BAD TOUCH!
214 votes

304 votes | Poll has closed

0 recs  |  Comment 880 comments

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Read More: 2009 mlb trade deadline, Brandon Morrow (P - SEA), Carlos Triunfel (SS - SEA), Adrian Gonzalez (1B - SDP), Phillippe Aumont (P - SEA), Seattle Mariners, Boston Red Sox, San Diego Padres

Comments

Display:

I never want Felix to leave.

EXTENSION EXTENSION EXTENSION NOW NOW NOW

by Snowman1025 on Aug 3, 2009 9:19 AM PDT reply actions   0 recs

If I were going to trade Felix, I'd want to be absolutely certain he wasn't open to signing an extension

And if I were going to trade him, neither of those moves makes a whole lot of sense. Boston’s prospects are overrated (like we need more relievers), and Gonzalez is also a free agent after 2011, which solves our problems how?

I'd rather know a little about a lot than a lot about a little

by Sportszilla on Aug 3, 2009 9:27 AM PDT reply actions   0 recs

Let's trade Baker.

Racer X. You have to love those amarillo hops.

p.s. fuck you angels

p.p.s. why does geoff baker hate felix

by InSpokane on Aug 3, 2009 9:47 AM PDT reply actions   0 recs

Why?

He’s good at what he does.

angels fan in seattle

by Eyebrows on Aug 3, 2009 9:48 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

He has seemed to be on the trade Felix kick for a while.

Also, he’s tone almost suggests that he was disappointed that this deal did not go down.

Racer X. You have to love those amarillo hops.

p.s. fuck you angels

p.p.s. why does geoff baker hate felix

by InSpokane on Aug 3, 2009 9:53 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

I don't think he wants to trade Felix

He’s just been raising the question of what it would take for them to trade him. I think any good GM would at least consider it, and it’s an interesting question to ponder.

angels fan in seattle

by Eyebrows on Aug 3, 2009 10:00 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Sometimes it seems he more interested in landing the big story.
A creative proposal, to say the least. And one that obviously would have blown away anything else at the July 31 deadline. Would have been the talk of future deadlines for years to come.

Also from a July 30th story.

Believe me, I’d like nothing more than to see this year’s Mariners go to the post-season. It’s good for business. Fun for us to cover. Creates all kinds of interest nationally in the stories we write. So, let’s just get that part straight.

Racer X. You have to love those amarillo hops.

p.s. fuck you angels

p.p.s. why does geoff baker hate felix

by InSpokane on Aug 3, 2009 11:10 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

I guess I should should been more specific, he seems to want to land the big story for his personal gain not to give us latests

Racer X. You have to love those amarillo hops.

p.s. fuck you angels

p.p.s. why does geoff baker hate felix

by InSpokane on Aug 3, 2009 11:20 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Dude, it's a blog.

angels fan in seattle

by Eyebrows on Aug 3, 2009 11:21 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

You're reading him wrong

He was only advocating trading Felix if an extension was out of the question and the team wasn’t contending.

De Gutibus non disputandum est

by Bearskin Rugburn on Aug 3, 2009 1:02 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

I would trade my mom before Felix.

a failure pile in a sadness bowl.

by royalcurve on Aug 3, 2009 9:51 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

I was going to say the exact same thing.

Racer X. You have to love those amarillo hops.

p.s. fuck you angels

p.p.s. why does geoff baker hate felix

by InSpokane on Aug 3, 2009 9:53 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Nothing at all. I was thinking my own mother.

Racer X. You have to love those amarillo hops.

p.s. fuck you angels

p.p.s. why does geoff baker hate felix

by InSpokane on Aug 3, 2009 11:11 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

I'm sure she's a lovely woman,

but she’s no All-Star ace pitcher!

"Part, fools!
Put up your swords. You know not what you do."

by Fearless Frog on Aug 4, 2009 12:01 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

I would trade Felix for a few people

None of which are on that list

by Graham on Aug 3, 2009 9:50 AM PDT reply actions   0 recs

0000 Jesus Christ

Try not to take me too seriously

by calim on Aug 3, 2009 10:31 AM PDT up reply actions   4 recs

Bigtime prospect

This kid was like Harper and Strasburg put together. But, um, no religion or something.

Try not to take me too seriously

by calim on Aug 3, 2009 10:36 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

It was pretty obvious

Most careers really fizzle out after the player dies.

Try not to take me too seriously

by calim on Aug 3, 2009 10:38 AM PDT up reply actions   1 recs

Using BBref's neutralization tool

2002 Barry Bonds hit .397/.609/.860

I’d take him.

by Poochie on Aug 3, 2009 10:23 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Not yet, but I'm going to a practice on Saturday.

"Part, fools!
Put up your swords. You know not what you do."

by Fearless Frog on Aug 4, 2009 12:03 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

ALL RIGHT

WHO VOTED TO TRADE HIM

Try not to take me too seriously

by calim on Aug 3, 2009 10:15 AM PDT reply actions   0 recs

I've said it before and I'll say it again

I would trade Felix in a heartbeat if the price were right. Neither of the packages above were particularly close.

Nice Guys Finish Third - My semantics are a waste of time.

by pdb on Aug 3, 2009 10:41 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

I did, but only because I fear we aren't going to extend him

And I want something for that glorious hunk of man-flesh.

by rlintott on Aug 3, 2009 11:04 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Felix trade

As far as I’m concerned, as slight as our World Series chances are over the next several years, those chances would only further diminish if Felix were traded to Boston. If I’m Z, I’m focusing on extending him this offseason. Failing that, I consider moving him next July for a similar package to what Boston offered this time around.

Every year I purchase Seahawks tickets, curse the prices, and tell myself that I’m never buying tickets again.

by katal on Aug 3, 2009 10:18 AM PDT reply actions   0 recs

I like how they raised prices 15% a year after they went 4-12 and in a bad economy

Yet even me who is making nearly minimum wage, grumbles about it for 15 seconds then buys them and flip my shit while running around like Charlie in a god damn chocolate factory

by Robert on Aug 3, 2009 12:07 PM PDT up reply actions   1 recs

This is why they can/will always raise prices

not faulting you for doing it, I do it myself with the M’s, but still. The model works because the consumer makes it work.

Nice Guys Finish Third - My semantics are a waste of time.

by pdb on Aug 3, 2009 12:11 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Yeah, I don't understand that

There has to be a piece missing. Why would we even consider trading Felix for Gonzalez AND giving up three quality prospects?

Try not to take me too seriously

by calim on Aug 3, 2009 10:27 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

I guess we'd maybe replace our prospects with Bostonites?

Still seems fishy.

Try not to take me too seriously

by calim on Aug 3, 2009 10:27 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

That's what I'm assuming.

That we’d get the five Boston prospects as well.

by katal on Aug 3, 2009 10:29 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

The trade would have been Felix and prospects

For Gonzalez, Buchholz and other unnamed Red Sox prospects.

angels fan in seattle

by Eyebrows on Aug 3, 2009 10:30 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

My bottom line

Felix is fun to watch, and a good reason to be a Mariner fan. Any trade that we would make with Felix would have to be Bedard-trade level ridiculous and would have to bring me someone new to get excited about.

And not excited like “Branyan’s coming up” excited. Excited in the same way that so many other fans are about Griffey pinch hitting in the 9th with a potential game-winning situation.

Batting .357/.571/.500 in 6 games for PSSBL Rocky Diablos 2009

by Two Rs and Two Ls on Aug 3, 2009 10:35 AM PDT reply actions   0 recs

For what it's worth ...

this morning during his KJR interview, Zduriencik implies that it never got to quite that level of specifics re: Felix, which might just be GM subterfuge … or not. He does say that he didn’t expect to get any offer that would make it worth moving Felix—

by msb on Aug 3, 2009 10:43 AM PDT reply actions   0 recs

That makes some sense...

I can’t imagine why Z would even consider trading Felix for either of those packages, so his saying that it never got to that point makes sense to me. There might be players or packages which would be worth a Felix trade, but it sure as heck ain’t either of the ones listed above.

Fuck the Angels! And the Yankees and Red Sox while we're at it.

by urchman on Aug 3, 2009 11:04 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Holy hell! That is scary!

Awaiting the day I catch a Russell Branyan foul ball. I will make love to it.
Preserved In All His Greatness - R.I.P. The Reignman 1989 to 1997

by JLProck on Aug 3, 2009 11:10 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Oh my. Ohhhhhhhh my.

I owe you a beer and an avuncular pat on the head for this.

by marc w on Aug 3, 2009 11:36 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Impressive.

You are making up for a lack of quantity of internet you have found on this Monday with the quality of internet you have found. This is indeed good.

"Ever tried? Ever failed? No matter. Try again. Fail again. Fail better." - Samuel Beckett http://mvn.com/marinersminors/

by JY on Aug 3, 2009 11:59 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Oh my God

That looks disturbingly like a chick my friends tried to get me to fuck. God’s Holy trousers…. :(

by spittle8 on Aug 5, 2009 6:22 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

THANKS FOR SHARING

angels fan in seattle

by Eyebrows on Aug 5, 2009 8:50 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

I'd trade Felix...

…for Bucholz + Lester + Pedroia. Now, I know Epstein wouldn’t, but hey, that’d at least perk my ears a bit…

This signature space for rent.

by PositivePaul on Aug 3, 2009 11:11 AM PDT reply actions   0 recs

I would milk a few more blue chip prospects out of it.

Felix is pretty damn valuable, and I do not think Buchholz or Pedroia would be special if they were on any non Boston/New York team.

2009 Safeco Field Record: 5-0 ; Overall Safeco Field Record: 9-4

by Fin on Aug 3, 2009 11:21 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Yea, I do not think he is that good.

He reminds me of a scrappy, Bloomquist type of player. I am really glad that I haven’t had to use the words scrappy or Bloomquist this season before now.

2009 Safeco Field Record: 5-0 ; Overall Safeco Field Record: 9-4

by Fin on Aug 3, 2009 11:25 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Loafie.

2009 Safeco Field Record: 5-0 ; Overall Safeco Field Record: 9-4

by Fin on Aug 3, 2009 11:32 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Who?

angels fan in seattle

by Eyebrows on Aug 3, 2009 11:33 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

.

This guy.

2009 Safeco Field Record: 5-0 ; Overall Safeco Field Record: 9-4

by Fin on Aug 3, 2009 11:34 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Actually he's been around since 2005, touted as the 2nd baseman of the future.

He even made the All-Star game in 2006, but after his brother died in an accident, his numbers tanked in 2007. 2008 saw a re-emergence of Jose Lopez, but little did that help as the Mariners were out of contention by the month of May. In 2009, Jose Lopez has returned to slumping, and having another sibling die did not help. Alas, Jose Lopez remains the starting 2nd baseman, as he shows flashes of brilliance and the power that he once and could again possess.

2009 Safeco Field Record: 5-0 ; Overall Safeco Field Record: 9-4

by Fin on Aug 3, 2009 11:37 AM PDT up reply actions   1 recs

I meant 2004.

2009 Safeco Field Record: 5-0 ; Overall Safeco Field Record: 9-4

by Fin on Aug 3, 2009 11:37 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Doesn't ring a bell.

You sure you don’t mean Jose Vidro?

angels fan in seattle

by Eyebrows on Aug 3, 2009 11:38 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Who isn't on the team anymore.

You’d think a Mariners fan like yourself would realize that.

angels fan in seattle

by Eyebrows on Aug 3, 2009 11:39 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Aw, I see the potential confusion my friend.

But no, Jose Vidro was a different player. A 2nd baseman back in his prime with the Montreal Expos. Was traded for a couple of no name prospects before the 2007 season to fill the void at DH. He brought to the table switch-handedness, an ability to hit balls and not strike out. What he didn’t bring was any other skill required to be an adequate ball player. He lucked out in 2007, having a hollow batting average, while in 2008, that house of cards finally feel. Vidro was deemed “done”, and despite batting fourth as protection for Raul Ibanez, he was finally Designated for Assignment in August 2008.

2009 Safeco Field Record: 5-0 ; Overall Safeco Field Record: 9-4

by Fin on Aug 3, 2009 11:41 AM PDT up reply actions   2 recs

Are you sayin' he was some kinda homo-sexual?

because you better have some proof to go along with that, mister

He brought to the table switch-handedness, an ability to hit balls

by seattlebruin on Aug 3, 2009 11:42 AM PDT up reply actions   1 recs

Jose Vidro wasn't a switch hitter.

You’re just confused by his opposite-handed twin brother, Pepe.

angels fan in seattle

by Eyebrows on Aug 3, 2009 11:43 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

O yes, a very important detail that I overlooked.

In that trade with the Nationals, there were 4 players involved in the deal, with twins Jose and Pepe coming over the Mariners. In 2007, Jose was given much praise and glory, as the Mariners were in contention for much of the season, but a year later, was a scapegoat for the organizational issues the Mariners were facing. The only time Pepe had any recognition was during the pre-season commercials, where both twins Jose and Pepe Vidro stood side by side.

2009 Safeco Field Record: 5-0 ; Overall Safeco Field Record: 9-4

by Fin on Aug 3, 2009 11:46 AM PDT up reply actions   1 recs

Recs all around.

angels fan in seattle

by Eyebrows on Aug 3, 2009 11:48 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

bullshit
In 2009, Jose Lopez has returned to slumping, and having another sibling die did not help.

by seattlebruin on Aug 3, 2009 11:38 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Perhaps I am being a bit harsh there.

2009 Safeco Field Record: 5-0 ; Overall Safeco Field Record: 9-4

by Fin on Aug 3, 2009 11:42 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Ok, so he has had a little re-emergence of late.

2009 Safeco Field Record: 5-0 ; Overall Safeco Field Record: 9-4

by Fin on Aug 3, 2009 11:46 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

I would assume he would replace Loafie at 2nd.

2009 Safeco Field Record: 5-0 ; Overall Safeco Field Record: 9-4

by Fin on Aug 3, 2009 11:30 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

I would never trade Felix.

He has Hall of Fame potential. Like banner in the rafters with his number on it potential. He is so good, I would never even consider it. He is my favorite Mariner.

2009 Safeco Field Record: 5-0 ; Overall Safeco Field Record: 9-4

by Fin on Aug 3, 2009 11:22 AM PDT reply actions   0 recs

Z needs to sign that extension as soon as possible.

And the team needs to start winning. It seems like Felix is more comfortable, now that he has a best friend in Gutierrez and his own personal catcher. I wouldn’t be surprised if Z could persuade him to stick around after the team really starts winning in the next couple of seasons.

2009 Safeco Field Record: 5-0 ; Overall Safeco Field Record: 9-4

by Fin on Aug 3, 2009 11:29 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

The player has all the power though

Z can only offer an extension. Felix has to be willing to sign it. Which as you say is probably entirely dependent on the team playing consistent winning baseball.

Nice Guys Finish Third - My semantics are a waste of time.

by pdb on Aug 3, 2009 11:33 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Bahahahaha.

Who else used to watch The Little Price?

Click to enlarge.

I will smash your face into a jelly.

by Phildopip on Aug 3, 2009 11:35 AM PDT reply actions   0 recs

Watch the Little Price?

I did read The Little Prince for the first time ever this year, though. Today’s XKCD made me sad.

by katal on Aug 3, 2009 2:02 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Whoops.

I meant “The Little Prince”. The TV show was on Nickelodeon, and I used to love it as a kid.

I will smash your face into a jelly.

by Phildopip on Aug 3, 2009 2:36 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

I had no idea there was a show!

I need to find this immediately.

by katal on Aug 3, 2009 2:51 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

He also has a pet spider

Racer X. You have to love those amarillo hops.

p.s. fuck you angels

p.p.s. why does geoff baker hate felix

by InSpokane on Aug 3, 2009 12:18 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Gomez found a pic of him a while back.

I think this is supposed to be him

"Ever tried? Ever failed? No matter. Try again. Fail again. Fail better." - Samuel Beckett http://mvn.com/marinersminors/

by JY on Aug 3, 2009 12:33 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

That's uh...

That’s not at all what I expected him to look like.

by BrianL on Aug 3, 2009 12:34 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Not at all.

The Scourge of the VSL is rather baby-faced.

"Ever tried? Ever failed? No matter. Try again. Fail again. Fail better." - Samuel Beckett http://mvn.com/marinersminors/

by JY on Aug 3, 2009 12:35 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

25.67 K/BB. Good god.

I will smash your face into a jelly.

by Phildopip on Aug 3, 2009 12:32 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

And the G/F ratio of 3.79:1

"Ever tried? Ever failed? No matter. Try again. Fail again. Fail better." - Samuel Beckett http://mvn.com/marinersminors/

by JY on Aug 3, 2009 12:32 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

I have no idea.

The old visa rules don’t apply anymore, but generally speaking, I’ve only seen one pitcher ever promoted from the VSL mid-season, and that was Cesar Jimenez. Ramirez, right now, is outdoing even that.

The VSL season ends on Saturday, and I’m pretty sure they promoted Jimenez after the season. We may see Ramirez in the states in the coming weeks. I wouldn’t give great odds on it, but it could happen.

"Ever tried? Ever failed? No matter. Try again. Fail again. Fail better." - Samuel Beckett http://mvn.com/marinersminors/

by JY on Aug 3, 2009 12:43 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

His numbers were fine last year

How come he went for another go around? Also, you don’t happen to know what exactly he’s throwing, do you?

by Graham on Aug 3, 2009 12:45 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

There aren't many players, especially pitchers, that come up after one year.

Usually players have to have one or two outstanding things that they do in order to get promoted immediately. Efrain Nunez came up because he could hit, Asdrubal Cabrera and Oswaldo Navarro could both field at an elite level, and J.C. Ramirez had a plus fastball and the makings of a good slider. It’s not necessarily a bad sign to see a pitcher in there for a second year though. Pineda spent two years in the DSL and then was immediately in the Midwest League, dominating as though he’d been well-practiced in it.

Erasmo is probably more like Pineda than the other Ramirez. His FB doesn’t have plus heat on it, but he commands it well and he throws a variety of them, two-seams, sinking, cutting I think. I’m guessing he has a working change-up too from how he handles left-handers (23/0 K/BB in 17.0 IP). I’ve never heard a full SR on him, just bits and pieces here and there, how he was one of the better players available out of Nicaragua when they got him, how they expected him to add velocity as he grew, stuff like that.

"Ever tried? Ever failed? No matter. Try again. Fail again. Fail better." - Samuel Beckett http://mvn.com/marinersminors/

by JY on Aug 3, 2009 1:05 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

I hope he comes up for the tail end of the season

If he gets put in Everett it’d be fun to go to a game and check him out. What’s the talent like in the VSL?

by Graham on Aug 3, 2009 1:11 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

YES

I keep trying to tell myself that the stats are meaningless, but they won’t let me. I mean, ~ 4:1 GBs? And no walks? I was hoping they’d push him a while ago, and every time he goes more than 5 days w/o pitching, I keep scanning the scores in Arizona or Pulaski.
Again, this FO seems to be close to the opposite of the Bavasi regime when it comes to mid-season promotions.

by marc w on Aug 3, 2009 1:39 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

So do I.

The timing works for me, so I’d love to catch game or two of him in Everett.

The VSL level of talent is always quite difficult to judge because in a lot of cases you’re projecting on body type or skills that haven’t often seen formal competition. The best of the talent gets skimmed off every year for the states and because there’s a four-year term limit, you end up with long-time holdovers who kill the league on sheer experience when they might not amount to that much in that states. That’s not always the case though, Valbuena and Balentien both spent three or more years in the league for example.

I don’t see any names that jump off the page for me because, obviously, those guys are probably in the states or in a Dominican complex, but for fun, Erasmo Ramirez is:
Leading in ERA (0.55 to 1.49 for the next guy)
Leading in IP (82.0 to 68.1)
Leading in Ks (77 to 72, but in 19 more innings)

I’d consider throwing him into the Clinton rotation to start the season.

"Ever tried? Ever failed? No matter. Try again. Fail again. Fail better." - Samuel Beckett http://mvn.com/marinersminors/

by JY on Aug 3, 2009 1:48 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

I really wish you could sort by GB/FB...

I just don’t have a sense of the league average. Whatever it is, he’s gotta be several std. devs from the median.

The old org pushed Pineda who had worse stats and who was younger to the MWL; let’s hope Ramirez’ ridiculous year overcomes the cautiousness of the org next year (that is, go to the MWL, forget the NWL/AZL).

by marc w on Aug 3, 2009 1:55 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Ooooookay.....

Get his feet wet in AAA like they did with Paredes and Bibens-Dirkx!
Come to me, Erasmo.

(by the way, it’s really annoying that there’s some AAA vet/AAAA pitcher named Erasmo Ramirez).

by marc w on Aug 3, 2009 2:19 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Like I mentioned above

On M’s broadcasts he keeps being brought up and the picture they use of him is of the other Erasmo Ramirez shopped into an M’s uniform.

by Graham on Aug 3, 2009 2:41 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Seriously? I've missed that

I’ve seen his name in some of those ‘building to the future’ deals, but they just showed the banner bank logo.

by marc w on Aug 3, 2009 2:42 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Stats in summer leagues are nigh meaningless.

I would have picked Henry Perez over Pineda that year, I think, and Henry Perez is still in the DSL. Walter Suriel had better stats than Pineda and look at how he’s done in the States. Players are promoted on ability more often than stats. That’s why Eddy Fernandez took so long to get here, and subsequently sucked because he was exploiting something that more experienced hitters are more adept at handling.

and for the record, there aren’t a whole lot of home runs in the league and it skews noticeably towards groundballs. I think the standard in the MLB is something like 1.02 G/F (someone correct me on that), but in the VSL it seems closer to 1.50.

"Ever tried? Ever failed? No matter. Try again. Fail again. Fail better." - Samuel Beckett http://mvn.com/marinersminors/

by JY on Aug 3, 2009 2:28 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

I think we've all made our requisite 'VSL stats are meaningless' caveats in this subthread

And it’s not like Ramirez throws 81. And the league average GB rate could be 2.0 and Ramirez’s numbers would still be impressive. Just looking at the list, there’s no one in Ramirez’ league, save perhaps Yoervis Medina, who’s still waaaay behind. Yosber Monzon is in Medina territory, but I’m really just mentioning him for his name.

by marc w on Aug 3, 2009 2:41 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Yes, I believe so.

So, to be entirely clear, VSL stats are meaningless, culled from highly erratic competition, and even normalizing them, Erasmo Ramirez is still really awesome.

I’m thinking for the intro in next week’s minor league wrap I’m just going to blather on about the VSL for a while since they’ll be done playing by then.

"Ever tried? Ever failed? No matter. Try again. Fail again. Fail better." - Samuel Beckett http://mvn.com/marinersminors/

by JY on Aug 3, 2009 2:54 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Even if, say, the VSL was equivalent to a good high school league

And Erasmo Ramirez was a 19 year old senior, that’s a first round draft pick right there.

by Graham on Aug 3, 2009 2:59 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Yeah know, with most teams I would consider a trade of Felix for the right package.

But not to Boston. No. No. No.

FUCK THE ANGELS! FUCK THE ANGELS! FUCK THE ANGELS!

by Goose on Aug 3, 2009 12:33 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

Random Thoughts on Asymmetric Park Factors

Safeco Field is a pitcher’s park. It represses singles, doubles, and triples across the board and increases strikeouts. It also lowers HR/fly ball rate, but only for right handed hitters due to the short fence in right field and the prevailing wind in the stadium. In short, it treats left handed and right handed bats differently (i.e. asymmetrically) in terms of power, and that’s a pretty big deal.

But you already knew all that, so why bring it up?

Well, I was just thinking that since managers tend to stack the lineup with opposite handed batters. When a rightie is on the hill, lefties! When a lefty is up, righties! Granted, most teams don’t have the roster flexibility to have this as a huge effect, but it’s there. Following that, it’s pretty clear that left-handed pitchers in Safeco Field will probably face more right-handed batters than usual, and vice versa for right-handers, which means that LHP’s expected HR/fly will be a good amount lower than their non-sinister compatriots.
Left handed pitchers therefore are inherently more valuable in Safeco Field, because in terms of production it doesn’t really matter if you exploit some aspect of the park others can’t. You produce or save runs against the overall environment that you’re in, so it’s not fair to knock, say, Branyan’s value down because he has an easier time hitting HR in Safeco than does Adrian Beltre.

What all this does mean, though, is that there is an inherent flaw in evaluating the talent of players in Safeco Field. Using blanket park factors means that lefthanders will always be overrated, and righties underrated. I don’t know where I’m going with this so I’ll stop now. Just something to muse upon.

by Graham on Aug 3, 2009 12:35 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

Well has there been any thought/research done on this topic to develop park factors, say by field (LF/CF/RF)

which would help get a truer understanding of park factors?

I’d also think that Safeco is a fairly unique case, though Petco’s RF might also come to mind.

by seattlebruin on Aug 3, 2009 12:38 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Here's a followup to that:

Why not change your park to fit your team? Sure, it would be hard to make adjustments from year to year to perfectly balance it out, but doesn’t it make sense to at least adjust it to your long-term guys? If the Rays are willing to sign Longoria to such a long deal, why not tailor the park to him a little as well? This makes even more sense to me if you are someone like the Yankees who just splashed out hundreds of millions in guaranteed contracts on 3 players in an offseason.

I think the main counterargument to this is that you just want to accumulate as many championship-caliber players as possible, especially since you still play half of your games in parks that are different (and thus harder to tailor a team towards) than your own.

by GhettoBear04 on Aug 3, 2009 1:13 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Perfect example of why that is a bad idea is Griffey.

We tailored Safeco to him then he bailed and we had zero lefty power hitters to take advantage.

by Sec 108 on Aug 3, 2009 1:20 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

I believe

the Red Sox did this for Ted Williams moving the RF fences in.

by don gato on Aug 4, 2009 11:53 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Years ago I remember you posting here and again that you were going to develop LH/RH park factors

but were too busy with schoolwork. Have you revisited your plans at all since then? Not all parks are going to be as grossly asymmetrical as Safeco or Yankee Stadium for example, but i suspect many will be.

De Gutibus non disputandum est

by Bearskin Rugburn on Aug 4, 2009 4:19 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

It was very helpful that they included the phonetic pronunciation of the police spokesman

just in case you were talking about this at the bar and couldn’t figure it out on your own, I guess?

Nice Guys Finish Third - My semantics are a waste of time.

by pdb on Aug 3, 2009 12:43 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

I am a huge Felix fan, but if we were offered five of those prospects, I'd do the deal.

I am assuming that Felix isn’t really interested in re-signing, otherwise GMZ would have done that deal by now.

I was at Shea for the Felix-Slam!
Personal M's record: 5-4.

by EnglishMariner on Aug 3, 2009 1:07 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

Eh, I dunno about that

GMZ wasn’t hired until the offseason and had a shit load to do before the season. Once Felix got on a roll he probably figured it best to just let him be, no reason to interrupt him with contract talks. if nothing is done this coming off season then yeah, we’re probably fucked,

by TheTank123 on Aug 3, 2009 1:37 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

I don't think the Felix stock will drop any time soon.

Maybe Jack Z is seeing if Tampa and other teams with great farm systems are going to get interested too now and pull off the greatest stockpile of prospects ever assembled. There was no reason to start thinking about a Felix trade in the middle of this season, the majority of fans would go apeshit I think if he ever was dealt in the middle of the year. During the winter meetings though, who knows.

by Kenny Knows Sports on Aug 3, 2009 1:47 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

If they trade Felix for anything short of 5 of the following 8 players I wll cry

Albert Pujols
Albert Pujols clone
Albert Pujols clone 2
Albert Pujols clone 3
Albert Pujols clone 4
Albert Pujols clone 5
Albert Pujols clone 6
Albert Pujols clone 7

Determined, Jonesing Commentor | Proud proprietor of Wyomingroutes.org & Washingtonhighways.org

by I'm NOT Corco on Aug 3, 2009 1:57 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

Three things I took away from that article.

Booo on the Hobbit w/o Jackson, Shamalamadingdong is not only an ass, he’s a retarded one idea wonder monkey ass, and now I know why Lost took a turn to craptastic land.

by Kermit. on Aug 3, 2009 2:51 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

The Hobbit will get made with Del Toro at the helm and Jackson producing.

The dispute is between New Line and the Tolkien heirs over who get’s the profits; there’s too much money at stake on either side for the project to be canceled out-right.

And thank God Del Toro is directing. I’ll never understand the reverence Jackson commands.

by sammy on Aug 3, 2009 3:31 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

He did a wonderous job with the first three.

They have some flaws, but it’s the biggest, most ambitious undertaking in the history of movie-making, and overall he hit it out of the park.

by Decatur on Aug 3, 2009 3:33 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

We'll just have to disagree about this.

The Helm’s Deep scene was perfect, and the locations were fantastic, but on the whole I thought it was an over-acted, cheesy, gooey mess. The CGI was so painful.

And King Kong? WTF?

by sammy on Aug 3, 2009 3:44 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Ruh rohs.

Jeff has been posting on FML again:

Today, I was handling corrosive chemicals when I accidentally spilled a beaker of Hydrochloric Acid on myself. I had to strip naked and use the emergency shower with my boss and my hot coworker watching. The worst part was when I realized my coworker was laughing at the size of my penis. FML

I will smash your face into a jelly.

by Phildopip on Aug 3, 2009 2:45 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

I'd guess the burned skin would be worse than a little chublaughing.

Also, what kind of coworker stands around and laughs at someone in the chem shower? I call BS.

by waldo rojas on Aug 3, 2009 3:03 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Dave Cameron wrote about the Angels' offense

at FanGraphs, and he caught himself a prize comment:

Who would think that someone like Dave who is considered to be something of an authority on baseball, and spent so much time analyzing a bad team like the Mariners, would be incapable of what makes a good team like the Angels succesfull.

The Angels are one of the best teams skilled in the fundamentals of baseball, resulting in fewer errors per game and not allowing the opposing team extra bases or extra outs. This is a mantra of manager Mike Scioscia, possibly the best strategist in the game. He knows how to get the most out of players and use them to the best advantage even if they are not always the best players. His aggressive base running philosophy works, he requires runners to go to from first to third on a hit, and all his players can lay down a bunt when called for. These are just some of the requirements needed to even play for Mike Scioscia. The most important thing for Mike is maintaining depth at every position. Qualified players that can come in and play at a high level and produce when another goes down with an injury. Depth is why the Angels are doing consistently well right now in spite of players like Hunter and Guerrero on the DL. It is still Los Angeles Angels style baseball, manufacturing runs and strong baseball fundamentals, but when everybody is hitting, it puts the results in overdrive.

angels fan in seattle

by Eyebrows on Aug 3, 2009 3:00 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

But I will give grudging credit

for the fact that the commenter did not once use the words “spreadsheet”, “basement”, “real game”, or “stat geek”. Doesn’t make the substance of his comment any better, but still, compared to the crap that Dave gets hurled at him this is somewhat rational.

Nice Guys Finish Third - My semantics are a waste of time.

by pdb on Aug 3, 2009 3:06 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Well written Eyebrows!

Here I thought you only used images.

by Sec 108 on Aug 3, 2009 3:08 PM PDT up reply actions   1 recs

That is seriously eerily mesmorizing...

It’s a live song, and I’m not joking – the audience clapping at the exact same tempo as this.

This signature space for rent.

by PositivePaul on Aug 3, 2009 3:43 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

I only steal. I do not create.

At least not yet. And that is something you should be grateful for.

angels fan in seattle

by Eyebrows on Aug 3, 2009 3:49 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

I have work to do!

I could probably make the gif, but that’s at least an hour’s work for someone with my minimal skill level.

angels fan in seattle

by Eyebrows on Aug 3, 2009 3:56 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Like the Dark Lord Sauron.

In the Return of the King (book), Frodo says: “No, [orcs] eat and drink, Sam. The Shadow that bred them can only mock, it cannot make: not real new things of its own.”

by Decatur on Aug 3, 2009 3:57 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Oh, how delightful is DRaysBay!

http://www.draysbay.com/2009/7/31/970856/tampa-bay-rays-2009-mlb-trade#19022235

You shouldn’t drink and comment you know.
by Marc Normandin on Jul 31, 2009 12:10 PM PDT to parent up reply reply

Marc, I have a crush on you.
Would you like to pretend to be a horse and cyber?
by Suttree on Jul 31, 2009 12:11 PM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions 2 recs

THIS IS WHY WELL KNOWN WRITERS DON’T COMMENT HERE.
by R.J. Anderson on Jul 31, 2009 12:14 PM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions 0 recs

BUT THE LULZ
Swav or Die (>’-‘)> <(’-‘)> <(’-’<)
For the lulz
by SRQman on Jul 31, 2009 12:14 PM PDT to parent up reply reply

by Decatur on Aug 3, 2009 3:29 PM PDT reply actions   1 recs

{´◕ ◡ ◕｀}

angels fan in seattle

by Eyebrows on Aug 4, 2009 3:41 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

ヽ(｀Д´)ﾉ

angels fan in seattle

by Eyebrows on Aug 4, 2009 3:42 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

๏̯͡๏﴿

angels fan in seattle

by Eyebrows on Aug 4, 2009 3:42 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Anyone in here need a ticket to the meetup?

I don’t feel like making a fresh post.
And sb, I mean legitimate needs, not the needs of someone who just wants to attend but was too silly to get a flight up.

by NOLAmarinergirl on Aug 3, 2009 4:55 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

Same here.

Didn’t realize I was going to be back from the East Coast in time when tickets were originally being sold. Added bonus: rlintott will text me his own pithy comments and I can be his voice since he can’t make it out from DC.

by pmc47 on Aug 3, 2009 6:20 PM PDT up reply actions   1 recs

Someone get this man a ticket

His promise of pith is true!

by rlintott on Aug 4, 2009 7:18 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

It's yours

I’ll facebook you.

by NOLAmarinergirl on Aug 3, 2009 6:22 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

I go both ways on this.

I don’t really the Giants but I like going to the ball park. I just enjoy going and not really care about the out come. Though my first Dodgers Giants game I thought I was going to get in a fight with some LA fan because I had on a Giants hat.

When it comes to M’s game I try to go to everyone here in Oakland. And I kind fall in to the category of fan

According to you, every single person at a stadium is a repulsive belligerent drunk
My wife and I got seat about 6 rows up from the visitors dugout and I screamed at Yuni telling him I was going to stick his fucking fat ass back on a raft to Cuba. People gave me strange looks.

Racer X. You have to love those amarillo hops.

p.s. fuck you angels

p.p.s. why does geoff baker hate felix

by InSpokane on Aug 3, 2009 5:29 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Speaking of,

do you, or anyone else for that matter, have recommendations for bars near the Coliseum? I’m moving to SF at the beginning of next month in time for the series the first weekend of September, but don’t start my job down there until the next week. Having never been to the Bay area, I’m trying to see if there’s anything near the stadium that is worth checking out other than going to the airport to get the hell out of Oakland.

by pmc47 on Aug 3, 2009 6:24 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

I doubt it.

You got slurved!

The M's are why the suicide rates are so high in the PNW and Japan.

by Slurvey on Aug 3, 2009 5:43 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

102 pitches/appearance for Volquez

He had one non-start appearance so it’s probably closer to 110 per start.

---
http://www.beyondtheboxscore.com
http://www.rightfieldbleachers.com

by Jack Moore on Aug 3, 2009 5:28 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Wow.

How does that compare to Felix though? He seems to throw a lot of pitches as well.

2009 Safeco Field Record: 5-0 ; Overall Safeco Field Record: 9-4

by Fin on Aug 3, 2009 6:10 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Pretty similar.

But Felix has been pitching 30 games a year for 4 years now.

---
http://www.beyondtheboxscore.com
http://www.rightfieldbleachers.com

by Jack Moore on Aug 3, 2009 6:16 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Is Felix the most seasoned 23-year-old ever?

Signed when he was 16, called up at 19, 126 career starts, 818.2 innings. Maybe there are guys who started in the majors slightly sooner, but most of them didn’t start playing for a major league organization at 16. Some guys can say that, but most of them can’t say they hardly missed any games from 19-23. I’m surprised, even though it’s early in his career, that Felix is mentioned as often (from the articles I’ve read on the subject) in the “Who could get to 300 wins debate?”

by Kenny Knows Sports on Aug 3, 2009 6:35 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Having Zduriencik as a GM certainly won't hurt his chances of getting 300 wins.

Nolan Ryan started off young, 17 I believe. There are some regulars here that know more about baseball players off the top of their heads that could probably name a better comparison.

by Kermit. on Aug 3, 2009 7:37 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Question for everyone:

Had GMZ made the pulled the trigger on the “better” of the two Felix offers, would the Ms blog-o-sphere ever love him again?

Illegible

by kevin_ess on Aug 3, 2009 8:23 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

That's a positive.

I think this is by far and away the best GM we have ever had. Hands down.

Which sucks, because my “I love Woody Woodward” shirt has so much dust on it.

Illegible

by kevin_ess on Aug 3, 2009 9:18 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

If he trades Felix, he -will- have a damn good reason

And the return will be fuck-me amazing. I’d be hurt, but I’d understand eventually

by Graham on Aug 3, 2009 9:43 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

I think we'd interpret the deal in a positive light, ie. that Felix had no intention of re-signing here.

I don’t know. I’d be in my basement crying into a mug of Scotch, so I wouldn’t be your point man for trade analysis.

by marc w on Aug 3, 2009 9:06 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

"Made the pulled the trigger?"

REALLY??? Shit. Sorry about that.

Illegible

by kevin_ess on Aug 3, 2009 9:19 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Tillman having a pretty rough game so far against Detroit

69 pitches/39 strikes, 4 IP, 4 ER, 2 K, 2 BB, 5 H, 4 GB, 6 FB

---
http://www.beyondtheboxscore.com
http://www.rightfieldbleachers.com

by Jack Moore on Aug 3, 2009 5:25 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

HE'S A BUST HAHAHAHAHA WE TOTALLY RIPPED THEM OFF ON THE BEDARD TRADE.

You got slurved!

The M's are why the suicide rates are so high in the PNW and Japan.

by Slurvey on Aug 3, 2009 5:43 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Speaking of prospects.

I was checking out the BA’s all time top 100 lists and noticed the M’s had a LOT of guys on those lists that never did squat. One of them got up to about #3 on the top 100 list, he was a right handed pitcher, this was about 1992, and I never heard of him. Sorry, I don’t remember the name or where I got to that list, but I assume easily half of you know who I’m talking about.

What happened to that guy?

by Kenny Knows Sports on Aug 3, 2009 6:09 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

Roger Salkeid?

He was supposed to be the next Roger Clemens or something, but he got hurt.

"Ever tried? Ever failed? No matter. Try again. Fail again. Fail better." - Samuel Beckett http://mvn.com/marinersminors/

by JY on Aug 3, 2009 6:15 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

*Salkeld

"Ever tried? Ever failed? No matter. Try again. Fail again. Fail better." - Samuel Beckett http://mvn.com/marinersminors/

by JY on Aug 3, 2009 6:17 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Salkeld is a perfect example of why a pitcher should shut things down when his arm hurts.

In spring training he knew he had a shot at making the rotation and decided to pitch through massive discomfort because he did not want to miss his shot at the bigs. He ended up blowing his arm out, had reconstructive surgery but was never the same.

by Sec 108 on Aug 4, 2009 9:43 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

How many times we've heard that exact story.

"Ever tried? Ever failed? No matter. Try again. Fail again. Fail better." - Samuel Beckett http://mvn.com/marinersminors/

by JY on Aug 4, 2009 9:44 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

More rosterbation.

My query into Salkeld led me to this 2005 article from Larry Stone, right before the M’s were about to make the 3rd pick in the draft. He brings up taking Salkeld ahead of Frank Thomas, and Jose Cruz Jr in front of Roy Halladay, Kerry Wood, Carlos Beltran and others. And then we know what happened in the 2005 draft.

by Kenny Knows Sports on Aug 3, 2009 6:29 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

Most retrospective draft analysis is really, really, really stupid

Clement was not a bad pick and never has been. He just didn’t work out very well.

by Graham on Aug 3, 2009 6:30 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Most is, but Michael Garciaparra over David Wright is still fucking dumb.

"Ever tried? Ever failed? No matter. Try again. Fail again. Fail better." - Samuel Beckett http://mvn.com/marinersminors/

by JY on Aug 3, 2009 6:31 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Sure, but picking on reasonable picks after the fact isn't right

It’s not like there was a clear #3 in that draft.

by Graham on Aug 3, 2009 6:40 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

In 1995, Cruz went after Darin Erstad and Ben Davis, so it's not like the M's were alone in passing on some excellent talents.

Would ANY team have taken Roy Halladay over Kerry Wood? Wasn’t Kerry Wood just one of the most phenomenal pitching talents ever? Nothing you can do about it.

by Kenny Knows Sports on Aug 3, 2009 6:43 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Agreed.

Alex Gordon hasn’t exactly been everything people thought he was going to be either.

"Ever tried? Ever failed? No matter. Try again. Fail again. Fail better." - Samuel Beckett http://mvn.com/marinersminors/

by JY on Aug 3, 2009 6:47 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Just wanted to link the article since I mentioned Salkeld and were talking about rosterbation.

No use crying over spilled milk, MLB is the hardest draft in sports to project talent. You can’t blame organizations for mistakes but you can definitely praise ones that consistently make great decisions. The only thing painful for me to watch in the draft is small market teams drafting signable players over better ones. Obviously, the Mariners didn’t do that.

by Kenny Knows Sports on Aug 3, 2009 6:37 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

I think many people were scratching their heads over Matt Bush, Van Benschoten, and Luke Hochevar.

At least, from my recollection, which could be wrong on one of those names, those orgs knew they weren’t taking the best talent available.

The MLB draft is fucked, and it needs to be fixed, for situations like signability.

But no, the M’s drafts of 1989, 1995, and 2005 are not examples of this.

by Kenny Knows Sports on Aug 3, 2009 7:02 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

That's right - Matt Bush? Go ahead and laugh.

Hochevar is perhaps tougher, though I allow myself to snicker at the Royals for all manner of things, and this pick just sort of fits in. They assumed it was ‘safe’ – and I just don’t know that ‘safe’ picks (for pitchers) are as safe as clubs think they are.

As for the Pirates pick that was sort of odd, I think you may mean Bryan Bullington, who went #1 overall ahead of BJ Upton.

by marc w on Aug 3, 2009 9:13 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Of all people, Bob Stelton is on-air tonight on 710

He’s against the whole ‘trade Felix’ piece, because if you trade a Felix you have to get back proven major league talent, who can help you now, not prospects, and Adrian Gozalez is a good power hitter but that is all.

by msb on Aug 3, 2009 6:41 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

He's so insightful.

"Ever tried? Ever failed? No matter. Try again. Fail again. Fail better." - Samuel Beckett http://mvn.com/marinersminors/

by JY on Aug 3, 2009 6:44 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Hey eMusic people!

So that big catalog upgrade they keep hyping over there? It added a ton of smaller labels/bands in addition to the majors that folks’ve been clamoring for. In fact, they finally got around to adding Chinese’s debut album ‘The Conquest of Tomorrow, Today,’ which is what the kids refer to (I think, I’m not 100% on this) as a ‘hot hit.’ You can check it out here. Or, you know, go see them. I think they’re local.

What new stuff are YOU listening to, LL user?

by marc w on Aug 3, 2009 11:36 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

The newest thing I've been listening to is POS - Never Better

Looking forward a lot to the new Sigh and new midnightPumpkin albums coming out later this year though. I’m sure both of those will get many spins on my DAP hdd.

by lailaihei on Aug 4, 2009 12:04 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

That eMusic thing came with a big downside though

My plan got downgraded to 37 tracks/month. I was ok with that, since the promise was “All classical albums over 12 tracks will now only cost 12 tracks.” Well, that’s been a boldfaced lie. Numerous classical albums over 12 tracks still charge per track, and numerous albums with fewer than 12 tracks now charge a full 12.

For instance, I wanted Glass’ Einstein on the Beach (writing my thesis on a new John Adams opera, so I thought other minimalist opera would be good to have); the album only has 14 tracks, but it would cost me 48 credits. I haven’t used eMusic for too much else, but the new catalog REALLY dicks over classical music people, and it didn’t add much of any value. Just as a buyer beware to anyone looking.

by rlintott on Aug 4, 2009 7:25 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Because it encompasses 4 CDs

It’s a long-ass opera. And I understand the “12 credits per CD” thing, but they actually need to do that across the board, not some half-ass implementation.

by rlintott on Aug 4, 2009 9:04 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Nope.

50/month will run you $20.79/month.

I was in the 50/month for ~$15, and it’s not a “nonstandard plan” of 37/month.

by rlintott on Aug 4, 2009 5:35 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Theo Epstein

Has turned into the Scott Boras of general managerism.

Both are awful…and the first offer is better than the 2nd. What a gay ‘upgrade’ offer.

If Felix lands on the Yankees or Red Sox in FA or trade, I will quit watching baseball.

by Slica on Aug 4, 2009 12:37 AM PDT reply actions   0 recs

Yeah, a trade to Boston starts with Buchholz, Tazawa, and Anderson, and 3 more from that list.

A 3-way would be like AGon, Buccholz, Tazawa, 2 more from the list… And not giving up anything outside of Felix.

by lailaihei on Aug 4, 2009 12:49 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Any UFC fans out there?

I’ve watched bits and pieces of UFC over the past couple of years but never really got into it. But when Brock Lesnar went over to UFC, it peaked my interest as a wrestling fan. So I’ve been watching a bunch of fights on Spike lately and I’m really starting to get into it.

So as a relatively new UFC fan, tell me, what should I know? Who should I root for?

I’m thinking of rooting for this guy because of his amazing beard:

FUCK THE ANGELS! FUCK THE ANGELS! FUCK THE ANGELS!

by Goose on Aug 4, 2009 2:05 AM PDT reply actions   0 recs

Yeah.

Ive been a fan for over a decade now, thanks to…Ken Shamrock. After Shamrock, Carlos Newton and Evan Tanner stole my interest…and then I saw GSP’s debut, and my God did I pick a good current fighter because he has really turned into a badass.

Kimbo was a joke at first, but now I feel sorta bad for him…so im hoping he wins the Ultimate Fighter show. I just wish he would either shave one boob or let them both be hairy.

by Slica on Aug 4, 2009 11:12 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

So related to the TV crews story on the front page, any beat writers that anyone really likes?

I’m subscribing to the Sunday Washington Post out here, and Chico Harlan is doing an amazing job covering the Nationals. It’s very tongue-in-cheek and constantly making fun of the crappy team. For instance:

This season, on 16 occasions, rain has interfered with the daily undertakings of the Washington Nationals — a grim misfortune, if only because the Nationals generally require no assistance when it comes to botching plans. Tough as losing can be, it’s worse to wait and lose.

Or:

After the loss, Washington’s seventh in nine games under Riggleman, the manager gave his players a brief tongue-lashing that stressed several points: They were still being paid for their efforts, and fans, well-deserving of sympathy on this night, were still paying for tickets

Digging through his archives is great. I suppose it’s what the guy has to do to stay sane.

by rlintott on Aug 4, 2009 7:28 AM PDT reply actions   0 recs

I hadn't even read today's yet. Nice find.

But yeah, Chico is great. Hands down one of my favorite beat writers around.

by rlintott on Aug 4, 2009 9:06 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

I am in a reflective mood and two of the things that I think are great about LL are:

a) The no politics and no religion rule. Every single American message board/blog I visit is blighted by the war-without-end surrounding these issues. The fact that we have fun here and the community has not yet fractuered is in no small part to do with these rules IMO.

b) The active moderation which ensures that we don’t turn into a disaster zone like Fangraphs or USSM comments.

I was at Shea for the Felix-Slam!
Personal M's record: 5-4.

by EnglishMariner on Aug 4, 2009 7:41 AM PDT reply actions   0 recs

USSM comments have some Eternal September going on bad.

It’s not really their fault, I think, just a side-effect of popularity.

"Ever tried? Ever failed? No matter. Try again. Fail again. Fail better." - Samuel Beckett http://mvn.com/marinersminors/

by JY on Aug 4, 2009 9:51 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Jack Wilson?

I will smash your face into a jelly.

by Phildopip on Aug 4, 2009 8:17 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Jack Wilson!

He used to love soccer, the headline of my Seattle Times tells me.

by NOLAmarinergirl on Aug 4, 2009 8:18 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Before steroids fucked him up that is.

I was at Shea for the Felix-Slam!
Personal M's record: 5-4.

by EnglishMariner on Aug 4, 2009 8:51 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Ironical steroids, that is.

I was at Shea for the Felix-Slam!
Personal M's record: 5-4.

by EnglishMariner on Aug 4, 2009 8:51 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

.

CRABCORE!

This has to be the best unintentional humor EVER. The Running Man? Check. Techno bridge? Check. Metal core? Check. Emo chorus? Check. Headbanging keyboardist? Check.

I will smash your face into a jelly.

by Phildopip on Aug 4, 2009 8:16 AM PDT reply actions   0 recs

I'm still not sure what exactly is going on there

I’ve watched it a few times, and even threw it onto my Facebook about a month ago, but nobody could help give me insight. I have no clue if they are a parody band or if they are just out of their goddamned minds

I want to poop at your house - Thingray

by tootthekazoo on Aug 5, 2009 11:39 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

I love the Interweb

where this: “The Mariners fear they will not be able to sign [Felix] long term and are starting to put out feelers.”

morphs into this:

“Seattle Mariners pitcher Felix Hernandez(notes) is under contract till the end of 2011 but word is that the team is thinking about trading him this off-season, according to the Boston Globe.”

by msb on Aug 4, 2009 8:25 AM PDT reply actions   0 recs

How about that Neftali Feliz?

That two-seamer is just insane. Oh, and a 100 mph four-seamer with good movement.

Video

angels fan in seattle

by Eyebrows on Aug 4, 2009 10:03 AM PDT reply actions   0 recs

Ichiro is such a lady.
Yesterday as I was walking into that Starbucks I saw Ichiro and a friend sitting on the porch. They waved me over and we had a pleasant conversation. I still to this day get a little “Oh my gosh, that’s Ichiro” when I see him away from the ballpark. It is always neat to see him relaxed as he was. Chillin on the porch in his self designed private label jeans, pink tee shirt and trucker cap drinking a Frappucino with whipped cream.

Drayer

angels fan in seattle

by Eyebrows on Aug 4, 2009 10:42 AM PDT reply actions   0 recs

"Zduriencik knows they are still a few years away from competing, and won't spend that kind of money on Beltre"

“maybe you play Tuiasosopo, play the young guys, and you start to look for a diamond in the rough and find the next big stud at 3rd base”

by msb on Aug 4, 2009 11:50 AM PDT reply actions   0 recs

Yeah, GMZ needs to look for a diamond in the rough to play third!

How about Jack Hannahan on the Mariners? He looks pretty decent!

God I hate talk radio

by seattlebruin on Aug 4, 2009 11:52 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Jack Hannahan was like 4 RAA in July

Over a season, that’s like a ~4 WAR player.

by seattlebruin on Aug 4, 2009 11:56 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Well, small sample size applies to Hannahan's performance

he’s not really a four-win player, far from it.

by seattlebruin on Aug 4, 2009 12:01 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

He's been worth 3.6 WAR in 257 games in his career - that makes him almost an average MLB player.

http://www.fangraphs.com/statss.aspx?playerid=3692&position=3B

Obviously, he’s 29 and probably won’t get much better, and a good deal of scouting is needed to make a judgment on his ceiling, but if he could somehow become a league average hitter (a big, big, big if), he’s a 3.5-4 WAR player over a full season with his defense over the next 2-3 years.

by Decatur on Aug 4, 2009 12:10 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

He's a huge asset, and I think he's very underrated.

---
http://www.beyondtheboxscore.com
http://www.rightfieldbleachers.com

by Jack Moore on Aug 4, 2009 3:07 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

I can.

Hannahan couldn’t hit his way out of a paper bag, and Langerhans hits for neither power nor average

by Poochie on Aug 4, 2009 12:25 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

OH MY GOD I HATE PEOPLE* SO SO VERY MUCH

Why? Here’s why.

*not you. You’re cool.

Nice Guys Finish Third - My semantics are a waste of time.

by pdb on Aug 4, 2009 2:12 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

Amazing.
As Thompson sees it, any reasonable employer would pounce on an applicant with her academic credentials, which include a 2.7 grade-point average and a solid attendance record.

Holy fuck a 2.7?!? DID YOU EVER SLEEP?!?!

She suggested that Monroe’s Office of Career Advancement shows preferential treatment to students with excellent grades. “They favor more toward students that got a 4.0. They help them more out with the job placement,” she said.

Unethical!!!!!!!!!!!!

by Teej on Aug 4, 2009 2:18 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

2.7 GPA and solid attendance

She might as well say she’s considering a career in temping.

"Ever tried? Ever failed? No matter. Try again. Fail again. Fail better." - Samuel Beckett http://mvn.com/marinersminors/

by JY on Aug 4, 2009 2:47 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

You're right, I take that back.

GPA is not as predictive as most people would think it is, and it’s become more ridiculous since we’ve invested so much more in standardized testing.

I got my 2.7 GPA in high school. By all rights I should be getting my ass kicked right now.

"Ever tried? Ever failed? No matter. Try again. Fail again. Fail better." - Samuel Beckett http://mvn.com/marinersminors/

by JY on Aug 4, 2009 2:52 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

To be fair, I graduated a top 25 undergrad engineering school with a degree that not many people have

and she has what appears to be an IT degree when that field isn’t really expanding

by seattlebruin on Aug 4, 2009 2:54 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

And a Bachelors at that.

Even the MBA has become a bit of a joke these days from what I’ve heard.

"Ever tried? Ever failed? No matter. Try again. Fail again. Fail better." - Samuel Beckett http://mvn.com/marinersminors/

by JY on Aug 4, 2009 2:59 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Seriously? That's kind of cool.

Hooray for the system!

"Ever tried? Ever failed? No matter. Try again. Fail again. Fail better." - Samuel Beckett http://mvn.com/marinersminors/

by JY on Aug 4, 2009 2:58 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Holy shit. I think I did six: (2) english, (2) government, (2) economics.

I think those are probably about the easiest six, as well. I’m guessing you did math and science?

by Lanky on Aug 4, 2009 3:05 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

AP Scholars (with distinction!)

I always wonder how similar APs were to A levels in the UK. Any thoughts on the matter?

My proudest moment in high school was getting a 5 on an AP test when I was denied admittance to the AP class. Fucking teacher.

by marc w on Aug 4, 2009 11:04 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

I think AP is easier.

The technical A-levels (maths, physics, etc.) are probably advanced freshmen level college classes in the states. APs are more like normal freshman classes. Not that I’ve ever sat an A level.

by Graham on Aug 4, 2009 11:35 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

That sounds about right, but then I hear

that the maths A level has an “A” grade rate of damn near 50% and I can’t square that with ‘advanced freshman level classes." 45% of advanced freshman don’t get an A in college math.
I hear they have something like an A plus now, given that so many people got As.

by marc w on Aug 5, 2009 12:01 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

However tough the individual tests are, I think it's hilarious

that Singapore mandates something like 8 for their high school students.

by marc w on Aug 5, 2009 12:06 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

That happened to me

It was doubly sweet because I got denied admittance to AP Calc and ended up getting a D in the regular Calc class.

by sammy on Aug 5, 2009 10:52 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

NOLA!

Bringin’ the sass!

angels fan in seattle

by Eyebrows on Aug 4, 2009 3:09 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Fuck, I'm wasting my money then.

Aside, I really do love Wikipedia, particularly when they do those silly things that eventually get edited away into oblivion. My favorite was a subcategory of things no one has ever tried to turn into gold, which included Sherilyn Fenn.

"Ever tried? Ever failed? No matter. Try again. Fail again. Fail better." - Samuel Beckett http://mvn.com/marinersminors/

by JY on Aug 4, 2009 3:20 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

She also misspelled "tuition" in her complaint
I recently graduated with my Bachelors in April 2009. I am seeking a reinbursement of $70,000 from my tutision because the Office of Career Advancement Information Technology Couselors are not making sure their Monroe e-recruiting clients call the graduates that recently finished college for a interview to get a job placement.

I want to poop at your house - Thingray

by tootthekazoo on Aug 5, 2009 11:51 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

She could be an officer in the military very easily I imagine.

Or enlist as an E-4, I believe they still pay up to $60,000 in tuition if you choose that option (prorated over the 4 year contract but you don’t find out about that until after you sign). She sounds like army material to me

by Kermit. on Aug 6, 2009 9:27 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Not really.

I don’t think it works backwards that way, for one thing, and secondly I know plenty of officers and mil vets around campus and they consistently have among the highest grades of anyone there. Not all of them are brilliant, but nearly all of them will bust ass and get the work done.

"Ever tried? Ever failed? No matter. Try again. Fail again. Fail better." - Samuel Beckett http://mvn.com/marinersminors/

by JY on Aug 6, 2009 9:48 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

It does work backwards that way.

It’s called the college loan repayment program. Like Kermit said, you can opt for it when you join up.

by coolguyrob on Aug 6, 2009 9:50 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

That does make sense actually.

I’ve known a few guys who joined while they were still in college. Some of them had to take a year off or two for training and whatnot, but they were able to continue with the bills paid.

"Ever tried? Ever failed? No matter. Try again. Fail again. Fail better." - Samuel Beckett http://mvn.com/marinersminors/

by JY on Aug 6, 2009 9:59 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Yeah it's just a recruitment tool.

Same way they promise kids money for college. If you have a 4-year degree you can join as an E-4 and get help repaying your college loans.

by coolguyrob on Aug 6, 2009 10:02 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Enlisting as an E-4 after securing a bachelors degree? It used to work exactly that way.

They were still doing that at the end of the 90’s. And yes there are fine ROTC officers

by Kermit. on Aug 6, 2009 9:52 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Still doing it.

It’s up to $65,000 currently

by coolguyrob on Aug 6, 2009 9:55 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

It was pretty unusual from my experience.

I only met one, a mechanical engineer who spent most of his time as a driver for a captain in a construction engineer unit. The captain had a degree in ceramics, as in art degree. Endlessly amusing situation.

by Kermit. on Aug 6, 2009 9:58 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Haha! that's awesome

We have quite a few that do that in the linguist field, usually 2-3 per platoon or so.

by coolguyrob on Aug 6, 2009 10:00 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Same problem as I have in restaurants, where every other plate looks better than mine.

Your job sounds very interesting, and I bet the BEQ are pretty nice

by Kermit. on Aug 6, 2009 10:06 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Well in the regulary Army it's the barracks just like everyone else

But yeah with what I do now, the quarters are pretty nice. I’ve got a sweet 3 bedroom apartment right in the middle of downtown. All paid for by you guys, thanks taxpayers!

by coolguyrob on Aug 6, 2009 10:08 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

And wow this was late, my apologies.

As a side note, I do not like add once a point has been made and I recognize this was unnecessary. Purely unintentional.

by Kermit. on Aug 6, 2009 9:55 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Anybody downloading the mega Spinal Tap pack for Rock Band today?

I can’t wait to get home and rock out to Stonehenge and Heavy Duty.

I will smash your face into a jelly.

by Phildopip on Aug 4, 2009 3:04 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

They were atrocious on TDS last week.

At first, I thought it was some sort of spoof, but nope. Hopefully you get the classic versions.

by waldo rojas on Aug 4, 2009 3:10 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Hmm. I think I've taken a class with the Mariner's hitting coach's son.

At least, I know he goes to the same university as me, and I know he looks familiar.

by craig3410 on Aug 4, 2009 3:09 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

So im watching Baltimore-Detroit

Washburn vs. Matusz.

Washburn’s first 4 pitches: Ball, Laser Foul, Laser Foul, Double. Raburn is in center, Granderson is not playing. Reimold drills a pitch to deep center in the next at bat.

Very intrigued about Washburn starting without our field and our defense. Especially with Granderson sitting.

by Slica on Aug 4, 2009 4:11 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

Ball bounces off Everett's glove for a single.

2-0. Washburn again gets a double play to avoid the game being blown open.

He has not looked impressive. And his command is off to boot. He tried to throw the dolphin and nearly threw it over Laird’s head.

by Slica on Aug 4, 2009 4:33 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

In play run(s)

RBI single.

angels fan in seattle

by Eyebrows on Aug 4, 2009 4:12 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

I would think so.

I have no idea why he is sitting tonight, but I have been without the internet for the last 2-3 weeks, so if he is injured again…I didn’t know.

Washburn got a broke bat double play from Jones. Matusz looks alright thus far. I know he has great command and his changeup looks good. He is the other reason im watching this game right now.

by Slica on Aug 4, 2009 4:20 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

YES.

"Ever tried? Ever failed? No matter. Try again. Fail again. Fail better." - Samuel Beckett http://mvn.com/marinersminors/

by JY on Aug 4, 2009 5:25 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

I especially liked the part...

where he implies that crackheads have regular access to Craigslist and continually look up items addressed to “Crackhead”

"Ever tried? Ever failed? No matter. Try again. Fail again. Fail better." - Samuel Beckett http://mvn.com/marinersminors/

by JY on Aug 4, 2009 5:38 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Posnanski got promoted!

He’s now a senior writer for Sports Illustrated. Awesome news.

Nice Guys Finish Third - My semantics are a waste of time.

by pdb on Aug 5, 2009 9:25 AM PDT reply actions   0 recs

I know, that's really cool.

I’m like him, I have always viewed SI as kinda the pinnacle of the sports-journalist world, and the fact that one of my favorite writers is writing there regularly now is awesome.

Nice Guys Finish Third - My semantics are a waste of time.

by pdb on Aug 5, 2009 9:39 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Saw a guy in a Stephon Marbury jersey walking along the highway today.

Kind of weird given I live in western Wisconsin…

Also, the medicine I got for my recurrent headaches says I can’t drink with it. FUCK!

---
http://www.beyondtheboxscore.com
http://www.rightfieldbleachers.com

by Jack Moore on Aug 5, 2009 11:07 AM PDT reply actions   0 recs

They are not uniforms or equipment, sez Drayer

“Lowe has a call out to the union regarding the helmet issue. “They don’t know what they are dealing with in the Mariner pen!”"

by msb on Aug 5, 2009 3:47 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

So a historic friendly, a 4-0 loss with a party atmosphere, eh?

No, not that 4-0 loss. This one. Qwest would look better with giant stone heads all around it.

But in all seriousness – WTF is up with those angry salmon-colored Barca away shirts? Do they work on road crews in the off season? Those things are horrible.

Nice Guys Finish Third - My semantics are a waste of time.

by pdb on Aug 6, 2009 8:18 AM PDT reply actions   0 recs

I would like to see this
A war dance failed to throw Chilean champions Colo Colo off their game

by NOLAmarinergirl on Aug 6, 2009 8:56 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

They were pretty gross.

And on top of the color, they didn’t have the players’ names on the back either. You figure it’s a friendly in a foreign country . . . you might want to let people know who you are. Particularly people like me who only really know of Messi and Henry.

by Teej on Aug 6, 2009 9:09 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

After he scored the second goal, I was kicking myself.

Because before the game, I was talking about how excited I was to see him play. NOT TO THAT DEGREE, YOU ASSHOLE.

by Teej on Aug 6, 2009 9:14 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

He was so effortless last night it was unreal

I know it’s just a friendly, but still. Dude’s unbelievable. I’m hoping he becomes disenchanted with success, fame, and riches in late 2010 and signs as Portland’s cap-exempt player for 2011.

It should be noted here that I also hope to go home and find a box containing $100 million in cash on my porch.

Nice Guys Finish Third - My semantics are a waste of time.

by pdb on Aug 6, 2009 9:17 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

I hope I'm not stealing Eyebrows' thunder here

but this gif is too good:

I will smash your face into a jelly.

by Phildopip on Aug 6, 2009 8:56 AM PDT reply actions   0 recs

D'oh!

Sorry.

I will smash your face into a jelly.

by Phildopip on Aug 6, 2009 9:20 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

♥☺♥

angels fan in seattle

by Eyebrows on Aug 6, 2009 9:13 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

I'm trying to figure out what this is.

Is it a display of “Shucks, it’s alright”?

Or, is it some terrifying Cupid-bat?

by rlintott on Aug 6, 2009 9:44 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

o(^^o)(o^^)o

angels fan in seattle

by Eyebrows on Aug 6, 2009 10:24 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Two fish bumpin' uglies?

Or a cross-eyed person?

Or two breasts with stretch marks and beads glued to the side?

Or two Kirbys (Kirbies?) doing a little dance with their backs to each other?

by rlintott on Aug 6, 2009 10:58 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

So...amazon.com has a release date for Mass Effect 2. January 30, 2010.

Is this just speculative on their part, or do they know something that nobody else does? This is the first firm release date I’ve seen.

I will smash your face into a jelly.

by Phildopip on Aug 6, 2009 9:20 AM PDT reply actions   0 recs

That seems insanely early.

I had it pegged for Q4 2010.

by BrianL on Aug 6, 2009 9:22 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

They've been saying for a while that it would be Q1 2010 (or, fiscal Q4 2009 depending on how you want to look at it) which is January-March.

I’m just happy that it appears that they are going to be on the early side of their target window.

In talking with one of my friends who works at Darkhorse Comics (who is releasing the Liara T’Soni comics in January) he said that EA was trying to release the game more or less alongside the comic, and I believe the comic is slated to be released on January 10th.

I will smash your face into a jelly.

by Phildopip on Aug 6, 2009 9:27 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Is Dragon Age going to be that good?

I’m hearing mixed things about it. And it seems like the majority of the criticisms call it boring.

I will smash your face into a jelly.

by Phildopip on Aug 6, 2009 9:47 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Good point.

I haven’t played the Baldur’s Gate series, but KOTOR and Mass Effect have definitely made me a big fan of theirs.

I will smash your face into a jelly.

by Phildopip on Aug 6, 2009 10:07 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs