Robots Please
by Graham MacAree on Aug 13, 2009 10:36 AM PDT
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This is just getting silly.
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Does MLB have a policy of demoting umps that consistently make such calls? Like a demerit system?
by Kenny Knows Sports on Aug 13, 2009 10:40 AM PDT reply actions
Yes? No?
I think I’ve heard of such a system.
by Kenny Knows Sports on Aug 13, 2009 10:57 AM PDT up reply actions
I mean, MLB is watching right?
An ump who they don’t think calls a good strike zone, isn’t going to ump in the playoffs. And may not be a home plate ump at all right?
by Kenny Knows Sports on Aug 13, 2009 11:04 AM PDT up reply actions
I think that's kinda their only sanction, though
As I understand it QuesTec does help determine who umps in the postseason, but I don’t think they use it to fire/discipline individual umpires. They’ve made noises about using it as a “teaching tool”, and I believe they hold sessions at least once a year to show umps as a group what QuesTec sees, but they don’t take it down to the “QuesTec called this a strike but you called it a ball, why?” level and tie pay/seniority/whatever to it.
Nice Guys Finish Third - My semantics are a waste of time.
Interesting. I know that the NBA watches the refs pretty closely, and not just because of Donaghy.
It seems like calling balls and strikes shouldn’t be a “judgment call” There’s only a handful of people in the world that are selected to call balls and strikes, it seems like they should have this incredible talent to not be wrong, as weird as that may sound.
by Kenny Knows Sports on Aug 13, 2009 11:12 AM PDT up reply actions
I hate the the NBA gets some sort of 'credit' for watching their refs or whatever
If this was true in some meaningful way, at least half of them would be fired.
The NBA makes their refs review tons of calls after each game, which is laudable, but asking an interested party to go back and see what they think about their judgment calls doesn’t strike me as an objective way to improve the quality of officiating.
Yes, yes, basketball officiating is very hard, and it’s much more about judgment than anything, but there are a ton of ways to make it more objective, and the league doesn’t seem too interested. I understand that the league’s frightened now after Donaghy (who probably had top marks even during the games he was throwing) and after the racial bias studies.
Well as disappointed as I was to see the Sonics go, I'm kind of happy that I don't watch the NBA anymore.
I had already forgotten who played in the Finals.
by Kenny Knows Sports on Aug 13, 2009 11:30 AM PDT up reply actions
Pretty much
I mean everyone who remotely follows the NBA knows the fix will be on if Bennett Salvatore is reffing.
[DELETED ZOMG NO POLITICS]
This is what I have found
Mike Port interview about umpires from May ’09
A Sam Donnellon opionion piece about the umps this season
and, from a Philadelphia Inquirer article, during the 2008 WS:
“Selection of postseason umpires is based on merit, though there are provisions in the umpires’ collective-bargaining agreement that prevents an umpire from working World Series in consecutive years, or back-to-back postseason series. In other words, an umpire cannot work a league championship series and a World Series in the same year.
The postseason begins with 24 umpires assigned to four division series. The six umpires assigned to this World Series all worked in the division series. Those 24 umpires are selected by Major League Baseball, based on regular-season performance.
“We have a two-day meeting of all our supervisors and department personnel,” Port said. “We evaluate every one of our 68 full-time umpires. We look at how plays were handled, how situations were handled, strike-zone management, positioning, durability – any performance element we can come up with it.”
Teams are not part of the selection process, though Port acknowledged that their input during the season is considered.
“Part of our equation is what we’ve heard over the course of the season,” Port said. “If I hear 30 clubs say, ‘This guy did a hell of a job,’ that’s worth something. Conversely, if I hear from a number of clubs that a particular umpire didn’t do a good job, that is taken into account.”"
Whenever you guys post these gameday shots
you alwys have the camera directly behind homeplate.
That’s exactly where I’d like it when I’m following the game, but there’s no default to put it there. Is there? Am I missing something?
I like using semi-colons; they make me feel smart.
i'm curious.
Has baseball always had umpiring as bad as it has been the last few years? Or am I just paying more attention to it.
I have always been one of those “bad calls affect both teams” and “it all evens out” kind of guys, but man has Baseball officiating been terrible for a while.
Fear the NPE
by thewyrm on Aug 13, 2009 10:46 AM PDT via mobile reply actions
Yes.
It really was worse 10-15 years ago. Remember Eric Gregg, whose strike zone was about 3 yards wide? I don’t know that he gets ‘credit’ if he called it consistently – that just made him consistently wrong.
How does one make a screenshot of gameday?
There was a pretty egregious called third strike on Matsui in the Yanks game yesterday.
Just hit print screen on your keyboard and paste into paint
by Graham MacAree on Aug 13, 2009 10:49 AM PDT up reply actions
Alt+PrintSrcn
That copies an image of the the active window to your clipboard.
I like using semi-colons; they make me feel smart.
Quantifying that would imply umpires being willing to accept that their calls are incorrect
which isn’t likely to happen with balls and strikes any time soon.
Nice Guys Finish Third - My semantics are a waste of time.
There were even better examples in extra innings last night.
At least according to the tracker on the TV broadcast.
"Fights begin, finger prints are took, days is lost, bail is made, court dates are ignored, cycle is repeated."
I'm not sure how it's even possible to have a better example than an ump going 0-5
by Graham MacAree on Aug 13, 2009 10:56 AM PDT up reply actions
Yeah, this is pretty spectacular.
Purely on an aesthetic basis, I can see a 0-3 or 2-6 topping it with a down-the-middle strike called a ball (curve balls seem really confusing to some umps) and a clear ball called a strike (like 8 inches outside).
But to illustrate the point and to show that they’re capable of stringing together quite a few misses, this is perfect.
Or maybe the ump is right and the entire WORLD is wrong!
I mean, it’s got to be possible that a standardized system using multiple cameras and sensors in all stadiums is consistently miscalibrated so that the strike zone appears in Gameday as if it is 8 inches to the right of where it actually is.
Right?
That's my complaint
The strike zone sits over the plate fir righty hitters, but for lefties it’s several inches outside. What’s up with that?
I like using semi-colons; they make me feel smart.
If you guys are bored,
I’d have to recommend reading Josh Kalk’s “That Was a Strike?” over at THT.
http://www.hardballtimes.com/main/article/that-was-a-strike/
This seems like a good time to ask
does anyone know where that article is that shows that umpires get something like 85% correct? I referenced it in a discussion the other day but couldn’t find it anywhere.
[DELETED ZOMG NO POLITICS]
Search Beyond the Boxscore.
I’ll see if I can find it too.
Yesterday's Pants
A blog-thingy about the Mariners and stuff.
by BrettJMiller on Aug 13, 2009 12:23 PM PDT up reply actions
Found it!
Yesterday's Pants
A blog-thingy about the Mariners and stuff.
by BrettJMiller on Aug 13, 2009 12:49 PM PDT up reply actions
Paying such close attention to an animation of every pitch is even more silly.
Take away the Umpire and replacing them with a robot, you take away the humanity of baseball. With Robot Umpires, you would have fans leaning over their seats all through the first game out of curiosity, then heading for the exits the next games. Stat-head fans under twenty five years old thankfully are still in the minority.
Hey la, hey, Halo...
Correct calls>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>humanity in one little aspect of the game.
Tennis seems to be doing just fine, thanks.
And this has nothing to do with stat-heads, youth, or whatever. It has everything to do with the fact that umpires routinely miss ball/strike calls and the technology exists to correct the problem. If you don’t want computers calling balls and strikes, well then fine. But don’t make this about something it’s not.
by Aaron Campeau on Aug 13, 2009 1:45 PM PDT up reply actions
This discussion always goes to such wonderful places
by Jeff Sullivan on Aug 13, 2009 1:48 PM PDT up reply actions
Sec 108 is not under 25 (sorry Jeff!) and was an umpire for awhile.
If I recall correctly, he is in favor of robot zones.
Yesterday's Pants
A blog-thingy about the Mariners and stuff.
by BrettJMiller on Aug 13, 2009 2:17 PM PDT up reply actions
Correct, I umpired for 5 years and I am 37 years old.
Worked in the neighborhood of 200 games behind home plate, maybe more. I have better eyes than anyone I have ever met in my life and I still missed tons of calls. I tried very hard not to, but it is inevitable. When billions of dollars are invested in an enterprise like MLB it only makes sense to have the best possible umpiring available.
The whole humanity plea makes zero sense to me. Umpires are already too much a part of the game anyway. Remove their crappy pitch calling and everyone’s blood pressure goes down which you would think old farts on Lipitor would accept with open arms.
I also umpired minor league and little league for 3 years and am 31 years old.
I also support robot umpires. It really sucks as an ump to miss a call, but like you said, you can’t help it.
"With Robot Umpires, you would have fans leaning over their seats all through the first game out of curiosity, then heading for the exits the next games"
I don’t understand what this means.
I know I certainly go to the games to watch the human umpires.
That’s what everyone does right?
Yesterday's Pants
A blog-thingy about the Mariners and stuff.
by BrettJMiller on Aug 13, 2009 2:49 PM PDT up reply actions
Why did you feel the need to stereotype so heavily with the last line of your comment?
Any validity your viewpoint might have had (which was slim to begin with) went out the window when you added that little gem.
By the way, I disagree with you and I’m over 25.
by Jeff Nye on Aug 13, 2009 2:30 PM PDT up reply actions 2 recs
I'm not sure there's more stat head fans under 25 than over 25.
Seems kind of an arbitrary age to pick.
Thank God for that nice thing where old people die and young people become the new majority, eh?
by seattlebruin on Aug 13, 2009 5:33 PM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
I can't believe you need this spelled out, but none of us want "robot" umpires - we want four human umpires on the diamond, but for the home plate ump call balls and strikes by having on-field access to real-time pitch f/x data.
Perhaps a handheld one, like the ump’s balls and strikes clicker.
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