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43-39, Game Notes

Jarrod will never wash his hand again.

More photos » by Ted S. Warren - AP

Jarrod will never wash his hand again.

It would've been really easy to lose this game. No matter what the players might say about how they look at every game the same way, and how last week's trip was no different than any other, everybody knew it. Everybody in the clubhouse knew what they were up against in LA, New York, and Boston, and so, after putting so much energy into making a nightmarish trip a successful one, it would've been easy for the M's to come home and suffer a letdown. Hell, not only were they probably exhausted, but playing Baltimore doesn't really rev the engine quite like playing one of the beasts. I know I was having trouble getting amped. So to come out and put together a winning effort that at no point felt all that uneasy - that either says a lot about the M's or a lot about the O's, but winning like this was exactly what this team needed to do, and it puts my mind at ease. Forget about a letdown. If this team stumbles, it'll be independent of the most recent road trip, which means that we can now officially put what we thought would be a nine-game stretch of devastation in the books as an absolute, unquestionable success.

That's amazing.

  • It's a funny thing about one-hitters - the longer they last, the worse you feel when they're over. Washburn only allowed the one single - Baltimore's only baserunner of the game - but because it happened in the fourth, superstition never had time to get involved, and come the final out, we were left to reflect not on a missed opportunity, but on a brilliantly-pitched game. I mean, yeah, everyone's going to wonder "what if?" about Markakis' liner, but because it was a clean hit that happened so early in the game, there was never any disappointment. For two hours and nine minutes, we just got to sit back and enjoy watching the Mariners make the Orioles look like the Mariners.

    I didn't actually think Washburn looked that sharp in the early innings. He fell behind six of the first eight hitters he faced, and five of the Orioles' first 14 batters hit line drives. Even Dave Sims noted that Baltimore was hitting the ball on the nose, and they were just finding gloves. But as the second half of the game rolled around, Jarrod settled into one of those Mark Buehrle grooves where he knew where he was throwing the ball, and worked with a tempo that kept everyone comfortable but the guy at the plate. In the seventh and eighth innings, he got through Adam Jones, Nick Markakis, Aubrey Huff, and Ty Wigginton on six pitches. Washburn was dealing in true Ryan Franklin fashion, but the difference between Washburn and Franklin is that when Washburn is going well, he inspires confidence in the viewer. By the end of the game, I was fully on board. This was Jarrod Washburn's night, and no one was going to ruin it.

    That was about as well-pitched a three-strikeout complete game as any you're going to see. It's important to note that Washburn still doesn't have a good tRA, and has been generating better results than we can expect to see in the future, but for right now, nine innings are nine innings. With Bedard going on a pitch count tomorrow, I don't know that Jarrod could've had better timing.

  • On two occasions tonight, Ryan Langerhans came within a few feet of leaving the yard to left-center field. In the sixth he lifted a deep fly ball that Nolan Reimold played into a double off the wall, and an inning later he hit another to around the same area with the bases loaded for a sac fly. Those are fly balls that leave a lot of other stadiums, and they serve as a reminder that he's not just another light-hitting fourth outfielder masquerading as a regular. Langerhans is a powerful man whose problem has always been making the right contact, and when he makes it, he can hit the ball a long way. Of course, power to the opposite field isn't exactly what we want out of our lefties in Safeco, but it's cool to see that Langerhans has that capability nonetheless. I know a lot of you are bummed about Wlad losing his playing time, but even the most devoted Balentien supporter has to admit that Langerhans is intriguing. And since he's still arbitration-eligible for a couple more years, a good showing here means he could offer some insurance next season should Saunders struggle, which is something not a lot of people have talked about.

  • Russell Branyan hit his latest mammoth home run on a fastball outside off the plate. Branyan has actually hit a number of his home runs on fastballs outside off the plate. It's weird to say about a guy who strikes out so often, but Branyan has pretty good plate coverage, in that he's capable of going deep on a pitch anywhere in or around the zone. He definitely seems to have a preference for getting his arms extended on pitches away, though. I think Branyan might be one of those rare lefties I think about pitching in instead of away. Pitching him away must be terrifying.

  • Actually, I wonder what it's like to face an all-or-nothing guy like Branyan. A pitcher knows he's an easy strikeout, which is good for the mindset, but he also knows that a 500 foot homer is a distinct possibility, which makes you nervous. Is a pitcher facing Branyan more excited or more uneasy than he is when facing a league-average hitter?

  • Even during this little hot streak or whatever the hell it is that he's on, Ronny Cedeno is still perfectly capable of swinging like a damn retard. Today he swung seven times, missing with four of them, and for good measure whiffed on a squeeze opportunity on a fastball at the thigh. After careful consideration of his appearance through these first three months, I'm going to think of his current .491 OPS as the OPS an MLB team could expect if they called up a random little leaguer. If Cedeno can take a little league approach and little league swings against Major League pitching and still OPS .491, then by Jove, why couldn't anyone else? This makes Rob Johnson's .584 OPS a wee bit underwhelming.

  • Since falling head-first into regular playing time a week ago, Chris Woodward has hit an almost completely empty .280, but that empty .280 includes things like his barehand stop and bases-loaded double tonight. The double essentially clinched the game, and the barehand on Adam Jones after ranging over a few nautical miles to his left was something out of the Beltre playbook. Woodward isn't a good player, and he's only playing now because the M's need someone to fill in while they scour the league for solutions, but the neat thing about small sample sizes is that anything can happen, and tonight, Woodward was a valuable player. While they look for someone else, the M's don't need Chris Woodward to be a better player than he is. They just need him to look like it. Tonight, he did a good job.

  • I wonder how many times a batter has to foul a pitch a foot inside off his ankle before he stops chasing that pitch.

  • 76578660_medium

Erik Bedard on a pitch count tomorrow. It seems like there's something important going on with this team every day. I'm not 100% positive but I think that's good.

2 recs  |  Comment 651 comments |

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I am so glad you included the picture of Sims and the hat.

The Rise of a Superstar:Justin Upton-.425 wOBA, 21 years old.

by Goose on Jul 7, 2009 1:10 AM PDT reply actions   0 recs

With that hat

I kind of expected Dave to issue a warning about non payment to his how during the broadcast

by greg briley on Jul 7, 2009 7:22 AM PDT via mobile up reply actions   0 recs

Notes from the Safe

*Ronny’s at-bat music, at least tonight, was “That’s What You Get” by Paramore. Now, I’m a sucker for chick bands and I actually like Paramore (ducks), but as your at-bat music in the major leagues? Come on Ronny, get some real music. And if he didn’t actually choose it and the random dude in the booth picked it, come on random dude in the booth. Don’t do that to Ronny while he’s currently hitting below the Mendoza line. Give yourself/him some real music.

*Really no electricity in the stadium, since the hit came in the 4th, but by the end I was floating. I have to say this was the best game I’ve seen in person. Note that I’m a new Ms fan (3 years as of a few weeks ago), so I don’t have a lot of history, but witnessing the first 1-hitter by an Ms pitcher in Safeco was pretty cool. Jarrod may be pitching way over his head, but this was fun to watch. Now if I never see a Felix no-hitter in my life at Safeco, I’ll feel robbed.

*I felt like Washburn’s curveball didn’t get enough credit on the postgame show, so when I called in I mentioned it. He was throwing it for strikes all night long, in a lot of counts (at least 2 first pitches that I remember). It sure as hell doesn’t have a lot of break, and is a lollipop curve if I understand the term correctly, but he was locating it and they weren’t hitting it, and it was fun to watch drop in there.

*Woody’s barehand grab and throw to first was Betre-esque, no doubt about it. It was pretty to watch.

*In the top of the 9th while the players warmed up, they played “The Distance” by Cake, which was a nice touch. Can’t remember off hand if I’ve seen a CG at Safeco before, but I thought that was cool.

*They were replaying the game at Collins Pub when I dropped in after the game for a few beers, which was fun. I had to leave after the 8th because they were closing (only thing I dislike about Collins, they close early all the time), but the game was so short it was cool to see a lot of it again in TV mode. And the Watermelon Wheat was amazing, if you like fruity beers like me. Really, it was like a watermelon jolly rancher dropped in a nice wheat beer, except you know, actually made to taste good. Mmmmmmmmm.

by appleshampoo on Jul 7, 2009 1:11 AM PDT reply actions   0 recs

I remember seeing Washburn pitch a similar CG shutout in person against the Yankees a couple years ago.

It’s surprising how Washburn can pull starts like these out of his ass sometimes. It’s almost like he will pitch below average (probably more average/above average this year) most of the time, then pitch an ace-like game every once in a blue moon.

2009 Safeco Field Record: 4-0 ; Overall Safeco Field Record: 8-4

by Fin on Jul 7, 2009 2:31 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

That was my first ever baseball game in person

And it was awesome,although it was 8ip not a SHO,which is fine by me because it meant that JJ came in for the save.

I was at Shea for the Felix-Slam!
Personal M's record: 5-4.

by EnglishMariner on Jul 7, 2009 3:43 AM PDT via mobile up reply actions   0 recs

Oooo!

Where is Collins Pub, por favor?

~I'm on the DA~

by section331 on Jul 7, 2009 6:08 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

When you say someones batting average is empty what exactly does that mean?

That he’s getting hits and not driving runners or is a sabermetrics statistic involved?

by russak on Jul 7, 2009 1:19 AM PDT reply actions   0 recs

I think it's just

Not a high OBP or SLG, which means they’re like Yuni or Vidro-roughly .300 average but a terrible hitter.

by Fuckmikereilly on Jul 7, 2009 1:20 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

What a nice game.

And hey, SBN finally added mobile commenting.

by ThundaPC on Jul 7, 2009 1:29 AM PDT via mobile reply actions   0 recs

Ooh, so you can

The mobile interface is excellent here, too.

Nice one SBN. We approve.

by MarkE on Jul 7, 2009 1:34 AM PDT via mobile up reply actions   0 recs

Testing this out.

The pages are loading quicker, too. Very nice update last night.

by Wilder. on Jul 7, 2009 9:40 AM PDT via mobile up reply actions   0 recs

Another test here.

I am sitting in front of my laptop and my last comment didn’t auto-update (I had to refresh to see it).

Could someone please respond to this comment. I want to see if it will update after you do so.

by Wilder. on Jul 7, 2009 9:45 AM PDT via mobile up reply actions   0 recs

Here you go

anything exciting happen?

Nice Guys Finish Third - My semantics are a waste of time.

by pdb on Jul 7, 2009 9:46 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

It didn't update on my laptop.

I refreshed via mobile and there you are. Sec 108’s comment did update below, though, so comments are loading fine.

by Wilder. on Jul 7, 2009 9:50 AM PDT via mobile up reply actions   0 recs

Or maybe not.

Strange. I guess it makes sense when you comment from your phone the account on the computer becomes unassociated and you might as well not be logged in. Not a big deal considering you won’t be commenting from your phone when you are sitting in front of a computer… unless of course you want to pretend you are on the road or something.

by Wilder. on Jul 7, 2009 9:57 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

so, comments from oneself will never auto-update

If you’re logged in on two browsers, you’ll never see comments pop up from yourself. The system assumes you don’t need to see your own comments as updates. I believe this has always been the case.

proud to be creative director for SB Nation

by sixfoot6 on Jul 7, 2009 10:23 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

BUT I WANT TO TALK TO MYSELF DAMMIT

TALKING TO MYSELF ON THE BUS IS GETTING OLD AND I WANT TO TALK TO MYSELF ONLINE TOO.

Nice Guys Finish Third - My semantics are a waste of time.

by pdb on Jul 7, 2009 10:24 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

I never tried two browsers at the same time.

I just figured maybe somebody commenting below would make it appear.

by Wilder. on Jul 7, 2009 10:56 AM PDT via mobile up reply actions   0 recs

Interesting

“Did you know you can comment on Lookout Landing from your phone or PDA? SB Nation has launched mobile commenting. Check it out next time you’re at the game or bar and have something to say.”

SBN appears to be promoting this.

by Taylor H on Jul 7, 2009 9:54 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Awesome

Yesterday's Pants
A blog-thingy about the Mariners and stuff.

by BrettJMiller on Jul 7, 2009 9:58 AM PDT via mobile up reply actions   0 recs

So

who goes away for Bedard? Seems like it isn’t so easy to send Corcoran or Olson away anymore…seems most likely that Sweeney will go to the DL.

by Fuckmikereilly on Jul 7, 2009 1:32 AM PDT reply actions   0 recs

Hopefully the Angels

Don't believe the lies Bill!!!! look at the sparkly ERA!!! Sparkly, Sparkly!!! - McCovey Chronicles

by Trenchtown on Jul 7, 2009 1:44 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

So a 13 man staff and a bench consisting of Wlad, Rob Johnson/Kenji, and Josh Wilson?

Seems like that would only exacerbate our problems. Just send down one of the bullpen arms, Corco, Lowe, and Sean White all need to learn to throw strikes, so why not do it in Tacoma?

by I Lick Squirrels on Jul 7, 2009 1:52 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Oh, forgot about Shawn Kelley.

Hmm. I don’t think they’ll send down Lowe or White. Maybe Jakubauskas.

by Fuckmikereilly on Jul 7, 2009 2:08 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Jakubauskas is not going anywhere.

Corco or White would go before Jak.

by Wilder. on Jul 7, 2009 8:34 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

my money would be on RCorc

He has been all kinds of inconsistent.

by greg briley on Jul 7, 2009 7:18 AM PDT via mobile up reply actions   0 recs

No, Carp went down for Kelley

Personally, I’d do Sweeney to the DL anyway, then send down Corcoran and bring up Shelton.

by The Ancient Mariner on Jul 7, 2009 7:37 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

According to Dave Cameron's analysis

probably Garrett Olson; he laid out the rotation and due to the All-Star break and the way our games are scheduled afterward, the M’s will be able to go with a four-man rotation for a few turns. He’s figuring Olson goes down to keep starting in Tacoma (so that he’s available and stretched out if we need a starter) while Vargas moves into the ’pen for a couple weeks.

Makes sense to me.

by The Ancient Mariner on Jul 7, 2009 9:38 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Also
Jarrod will never wash his hand again.

= Gold

Racer X.

by InSpokane on Jul 7, 2009 9:35 AM PDT reply actions   0 recs

Woodward = WFBG?

That gamer’s effort, man … the effort …

David Ortiz > God

by brick Royl on Jul 7, 2009 10:06 AM PDT reply actions   0 recs

This was only my Second game attended

Have always been a Royals fan until moved out to Seattle recently. Had been a Mariners fan a long time ago.

Last night was very cool to see, and since it was in person that was the best (?) pitching from a SP that I have ever witnessed.

(?)= only 3Ks, but with all the great D, the groundouts and flyouts were just sweet.

Washburn mowed down the 7th before i could finish using the restroom. That is efficiency!!!

soon to change name to, "The Not So Curious Case of Benjamin Bratt"

by MarioVanPeebles Republic of China on Jul 7, 2009 10:48 AM PDT reply actions   0 recs

After last nights game and this current stretch

We have to at least consider the possibility that in a 5 and 7 game series, when the 4 and 5 starters go to the bullpen, we’d match up as well as any team in terms of starting pitching. And if that’s true, we need to start thinking about trading some of our beloved prospects for a Jermaine Dye, or a Jack Wilson, or both, to finally make a run at this GD World Series.

by Kenny Knows Sports on Jul 7, 2009 10:52 AM PDT reply actions   0 recs

Tell me which teams #3 pitcher is better than Washburn?

Joe Saunders? Armando Galarraga? Wakefield/Penny/Smoltz? Andy Pettitte?

He’s got better numbers and is really pitching better than any of them.

I’m sorry but Dye’s got a .935 OPS, he’s helped other teams make it to the postseason and world series. I don’t know if he can play or is willing to play left, but if he is/can, those 10-15 homers he’s going to hit in the final two months of the season and playoffs would be very helpful.

How many stupid prospects have we tightly held onto that never panned out? Travis Blackley? Nageotte? Ramon Vazquez? Yeah, we’ve traded away some good ones, but given the depth we appear to have at catcher, I’m ready to move a Jeff Clement or an Adam Moore for a proven bat or a steady SS glove.

by Kenny Knows Sports on Jul 7, 2009 11:13 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

And if you are willing to listen, we are willing to help.

If you are, instead, going to refuse to listen to new information, then you will be constantly mocked.

In a nutshell, the above two sentences are what LL is about.

by Matthew on Jul 7, 2009 11:16 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

If I'm willing to listen to you tell me that I need help in understanding player values?

Fine, you think I’m an idiot because I made a comment about us needing to make a trade. I didn’t make any trade proposals, I just threw some names out there and said these are guys who could potentially help us out and let’s not subtract from out major league roster in doing that. BFD.

by Kenny Knows Sports on Jul 7, 2009 11:24 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

We already have many DHs already

There’s no place for Dye, and moving from Comiskey to Safeco would likely eat into his power

by Poochie on Jul 7, 2009 11:25 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

No, I think you are an idiot because of the thought process that you said went into the players you listed

as potentially helping us out.

Seriously, I am not being vain here. We know baseball. This is not just a hobby, we are paid to know it.

by Matthew on Jul 7, 2009 11:25 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

This is exactly the kind of attitude that will make people hate you.

The authors here know way more about baseball than you do (or I do, or pretty much everyone else here) and they have the credentials to prove it. To dismiss their criticism of your thought process out of hand is appallingly arrogant.

by acblue on Jul 7, 2009 11:26 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Listen, I'm pretty much BRAND NEW here.

I don’t know Matthew from any of you. You can take it as me thinking I’m smarter than everyone else here, but you’re just wrong. I don’t think I’m smarter than anyone here, I’m trying to be as cautious as possible when making comments.

All I am asking Matthew is “What do you mean?” You just said “we’re willing to help if you’re willing to listen”

I’m all ears, just explain to me why, just for arguments sake, why adding Jermaine Dye (and let’s say we claimed him off waivers for nothing) would hurt the Mariners.

by Kenny Knows Sports on Jul 7, 2009 11:34 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

And nobody is picking issue with that.

What got picked issue with was Dye playing LF, and your reasoning including the phrases “helped teams get into the playoffs before” and “10-15 home runs”

by Matthew on Jul 7, 2009 11:36 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

See, just saying that, you're telling me what you think I did wrong but not why it's wrong?

Look, I’m not Bob Costas or someone who’s just going to believe that sports is all magic. But I do put some weight into a player who has been to the playoffs a few times before.

by Kenny Knows Sports on Jul 7, 2009 11:41 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Well I think you're going to have trouble finding very many people here who agree with you on that

and until you can give anyone a valid reason to agree with you, prepare to have that line of thinking criticized.

by acblue on Jul 7, 2009 11:44 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

That's football you're thinking of

you know, the one where teamwork actually is really important

by seattlebruin on Jul 7, 2009 12:00 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Again, I've never seen anyone give actual evidence of this.

The 2002 SF Giants hated each other and went to the WS.

by acblue on Jul 7, 2009 12:00 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

It's still a mind game. So if Manny Ramirez wants to go out there and make his team worse everyday he can do it much easier than he can make them better.

Just like a Richie Sexson can or a Scott Spezio or any pitcher who decides “screw this team, we ain’t making the playoffs, I’m going to let the other team have a field day.”

You can’t do that in football or basketball where the other guys control the game just as much.

by Kenny Knows Sports on Jul 7, 2009 12:05 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Can you point to a single documented piece of evidence that

supports that any player in recent history decided to perform worse than he could because he hated his teammates or some shit?

by Matthew on Jul 7, 2009 12:07 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Can you give any evidence that it's impossible for a player to not try hard on a given day?

Or we’re supposed to believe that BASEBALL PLAYERS play the game completely pure?

by Kenny Knows Sports on Jul 7, 2009 12:08 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Unless you're just saying

“I think this, even though I have no good reason to do so.” In which case we’ll hopefully just ignore something so insubstantial, unless it’s really stupid.

angels fan in seattle

by Eyebrows on Jul 7, 2009 12:15 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Otherwise your opinion will be dissected

contrary to popular belief, there are wrong opinions – all the ones that fly directly in the face of established evidence.

by seattlebruin on Jul 7, 2009 12:15 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Sorry

I figured out of all the people commenting here, one person would say “Yes, it’s possible, though we have no way of knowing for sure.”

Not just a “gang up on the new guy and don’t agree with one thing he says and hopefully he’ll leave for good” type thing.

by Kenny Knows Sports on Jul 7, 2009 12:19 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

If you think that's what we're doing you've never seen us actually do that.

This is an environment where we’re you are expected to defend your opinions and if you can’t do that, sorry.

by acblue on Jul 7, 2009 12:20 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

We are not going to be tolerant of opinions that we disagree with.

We will force you to back them up. If you cannot handle that, there are other places on the internet to hang out.

by Matthew on Jul 7, 2009 12:21 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

And if you can provide evidence to support your assertions, we will concede that you're probably right

it’s not a “gang up on opinions,” it’s “who can prove the strongest point?”

by seattlebruin on Jul 7, 2009 12:23 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Well

My only point is that its f’ing retarded to think that every player in baseball is a good old boy who will do whatever it takes and give 100 percent everyday to help his team win. And that out of those guys who don’t give 100 percent, some of them will decide that the guy pitching that day is an asshole so he’s going to miss a few catches, ground into some double plays, WHATEVER.

I never thought that any one little statement I ever said would turn into a long discussion about how “Kenny Doesn’t Know Sports” Jesus, I made that name like 15 years ago, I didn’t know I’d regret it someday.

by Kenny Knows Sports on Jul 7, 2009 12:28 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

So your opinion is this

Not every player tried hard all the time.

Therefore:

Players are deliberately tanking.

by Graham on Jul 7, 2009 12:29 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

My opinion

is that baseball is a team sport and it isn’t. It’s a game where players are affected by the guys around them, but at the same time, any one individual can tank it if he wants to and lose the game if he wants to. And that out of all these millionaires with major egos, I believe some don’t give a crap about winning. So if you management doesn’t “give me a new contract” or “trade me to New York” I’m going to screw us up for awhile.

These guys don’t work for the Peace Corps. They’re not heroes. They’re just baseball players.

by Kenny Knows Sports on Jul 7, 2009 12:32 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

"These guys don’t work for the Peace Corps. They’re not heroes."

This is a fairly ridiculous strawman.

If a player is deliberately tanking, it’s pretty easy to isolate his performance and remove him from the team. Ergo, it makes no sense for a player to tank unless he’s absolutely crazy and has no intention of continuing his baseball career.

by Graham on Jul 7, 2009 12:35 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Facing shittier pitchers at that point!

But you knew that. Still had to say it.

angels fan in seattle

by Eyebrows on Jul 7, 2009 12:46 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

And going back to my original comment about the 2008 Mariners..

is that July was like them being down 21 runs. they didn’t give a shit, they tanked it. They didn’t play up to their talent level, even if they weren’t all that talented to begin with, player play up to the level of talent around them and also play down to the level of talent around them.

by Kenny Knows Sports on Jul 7, 2009 12:51 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

So you've gone from baseball players don't all care about winning

To baseball players on the 2008 team realised they couldn’t win and tanked.

The worst players from that team no longer have a baseball career. Assuming they’re sane and like having an income, there is no good reason for them to not play hard each day.

by Graham on Jul 7, 2009 12:54 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

That's not the argument

the argument is “you must be able to prove that the Mariners dogged it in 2008.”

Graham neither said they dogged it or that they tried hard, only that it was much more unlikely that they were dogging it.

by seattlebruin on Jul 7, 2009 1:01 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Again, how do you know this?

They underperfomed but there were plenty of players playing for contracts, a place in next year’s lineup, pride, etc. Adrian Beltre’s numbers last year were way better after the M’s were out of it than they were early in the season. And the team also played a lot of marginal minor league players after they were no longer in contention to see if there was anything of value there.

To claim that the team tanked late in the year simply because they didn’t perform as well as expected is just absurd.

by acblue on Jul 7, 2009 12:57 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Youre right its absurd

I take every word I’ve said today back.

by Kenny Knows Sports on Jul 7, 2009 12:59 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Seriously, be less of a fucking baby or go away.

All anyone is asking for is something tangible and instead of offering that you’re acting like a fourth grader.

by acblue on Jul 7, 2009 1:02 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Good. I am glad you finally see the massive errors in your ways.

Feel free to respond to me here if I am misrepresenting you as being 100% sincere in your above statement.

by Matthew on Jul 7, 2009 1:02 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Okay then.

Whew, now we can all move on with our day.

by Matthew on Jul 7, 2009 1:05 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

So let me get this right

A person makes an opinion that everyone else disagrees with. That person then tries to think of ways to backup that opinion and after a few hours of not getting anywhere decides, “Okay, I’m wrong and I want to go on with my day” and before he gets a chance to explain that, you BLOCK him from lookoutlanding?

Call ME a baby? How mature is it to block a person for saying “Okay, youre right. Im wrong.”?

by Howisthatmature? on Jul 7, 2009 1:13 PM PDT up reply actions   2 recs

Hello again, friend!

angels fan in seattle

by Eyebrows on Jul 7, 2009 1:13 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

It was the passive-agressiveness of it all

if you just accept that we’re going to rip up baseless arguments, it’s not so bad

by seattlebruin on Jul 7, 2009 1:14 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

And you didn't say that you were wrong.

You were being sarcastic and passive agressive and really just a giant fucking baby about it.

angels fan in seattle

by Eyebrows on Jul 7, 2009 1:14 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Because you weren't eating crow at all

You were instead taking a bunch of passive aggressive snipes at the people who were asking you to back up your arguments with sound reasoning.

by OlSalty on Jul 7, 2009 1:16 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Graham, to be fair

all the baseball players show up. What he’s arguing is that you might do badly on something that he needs your participation to complete.

angels fan in seattle

by Eyebrows on Jul 7, 2009 12:32 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Right, but those measurements can't really judge intention.

I side with you – I think that to make it to that level, anyone who is less than a total professional has been weeded out.

I was just pointing out that it might not have been the best analogy.

angels fan in seattle

by Eyebrows on Jul 7, 2009 12:35 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

I still think it's a fairly good one

It’s the equivalent of biting off your nose to spite your face

by Graham on Jul 7, 2009 12:37 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Especially since baseball players

that get a whiff of a reputation for dogging it suffer from it for a long time.

by Matthew on Jul 7, 2009 12:38 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

There's a difference between trying to lose ball games

and not sprinting hard to first on an obvious out.

by abender20 on Jul 7, 2009 12:54 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Yes

But in both cases of baseball vs. work, not showing up is much more obvious to the outsider than screwing something up “on accident.”

Anyway, we’re just arguing semantics and agree on the main point of the argument.

angels fan in seattle

by Eyebrows on Jul 7, 2009 12:38 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

You're arguing a positive

You’re the one who has to prove it

by Graham on Jul 7, 2009 12:09 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

You have to evaluate players as a total package.

What they provide on offense, defense, on the payroll and in opportunity cost.

Phrases like “10-15 home runs” tell a misleading part of the story.

by Matthew on Jul 7, 2009 11:44 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

From Matthew's post below:
Based on UZR samples, We’d expect Langerhans to be ~31 runs better per 150 games. Or about 15 runs better for the remaining half-season.

Dye’s offense would be about 10 runs better in a neutral park. But Safeco is not even close to neutral and would shrink that 10 runs to five at the most.

Assuming that playoff experience has any value at all do you think it will make up the ~10 run gap between Langerhans and Dye, not to mention the salary and trade costs?

by Nate Dogg on Jul 7, 2009 11:49 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

The problem with Dye is that he is an awful, awful defensive player

he plays in a bandbox in Chicago, and is right-handed, a poor fit for Safeco Field. Also, he has a huge monetary and prospect price tag, and the upgrade he would provide over even Griffey (seriously) would be so marginal as to not be worth it.

The team would be much better off upgrading at catcher or shortstop with a longer-term or cheaper solution than Jermaine Dye.

by seattlebruin on Jul 7, 2009 11:41 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

All of them

Though Galaragga is having a crappy season

by Poochie on Jul 7, 2009 11:16 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Is it remotely possible that Wash has actually "figured something out"?

Or do his age and career stats make a regression inevitable. This would seem to preclude the Jamie Moyers and Tim Wakefields of the world, rare as they are.

by lemonverbena on Jul 7, 2009 11:47 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

That's a really circumspect way to talk about players.

Best to only deal with the areas they control.

by Matthew on Jul 7, 2009 11:52 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Yeah, I know, in terms of evaluating Washburn, he hasn't been great

I guess I’m just saying that as long as he’s a Mariner, we can expect him to outperform his peripherals due to the defense.

It’s not that he’s better or anything, but as long as we’re evaluating the Mariners as a whole, Washburn + defense can be an effective combination for us.

by seattlebruin on Jul 7, 2009 11:54 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Agreed

I guess what I should have said is that with a useful defense, Jarrod Washburn isn’t that big of a liability to the team’s chances to win as a whole.

by seattlebruin on Jul 7, 2009 11:57 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

An important distinction

I still will be happy if we move Wash for something short- and long-term useful, but as we stay in race, it seems less and less likely that Z would pull the trigger.

by lemonverbena on Jul 7, 2009 12:04 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Agreed, but:

I think Z and any other GM tends to shy away from trading a central role player (mid-rotation starter) in the thick of a pennant chase, and gravitates towards trading prospects for somebody that improves the team without disrupting its current success.

by lemonverbena on Jul 7, 2009 12:14 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Hmmm. Not really sure...

Our infield defense is way worse than our OF defense. A flyball-tending pitcher would probably fare equally well with another flyballer, but comparing a groundballer to a flyballer you might lose a little bit there.

Except Yuni’s on the DL and that helps the IF defense, so…

This signature space for rent.

by PositivePaul on Jul 7, 2009 11:58 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

But Beltre's out and that hurts it

Left-handed flyballers are perfect for our current roster and park

by Graham on Jul 7, 2009 11:59 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

He does appear to have figured something out

but he is still not very useful. He has just managed to be as valuable as 2006 Jarrod Washburn

by Matthew on Jul 7, 2009 11:50 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

A consistent frontline starter seems pretty useful to me

Just seems like all we talk about is his performance relative to trade value, meanwhile the M’s are in the thick of the pennant race despite Bedard, Morrow, etc.

by lemonverbena on Jul 7, 2009 11:56 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Again, he's not a frontline starter

He’s a #4 in a park suited for him with an all-world outfield behind him

by Graham on Jul 7, 2009 11:57 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Random poll of LL

we win the World Series this year and Erik Bedard is the key, as well as the rest of the playoffs, pitching three great games for us. He then leaves for Type-B compensation. Adam Jones ends up in the Hall of Fame.

Worth it?

by seattlebruin on Jul 7, 2009 11:45 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Always.

Flags fly forever.

angels fan in seattle

by Eyebrows on Jul 7, 2009 11:45 AM PDT up reply actions   2 recs

While I agree that I'll be forever angry at the thought process, the goal afterall is to compete and win.

I wouldn’t forgive the move, but I’d be OK with the outcome that came as a result of the firing of Bavasi and the Putz trade and everything else that cascaded.

by abender20 on Jul 7, 2009 11:47 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

It wasn't it worth it because it caused me a tremendous amount if misery

and if we win the WS this year I am not willing to say it’s because we have Erik Bedard.

by acblue on Jul 7, 2009 11:49 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Adam who?

I never thought I’d say this, but Gutierrez has helped me forget him. I still think Jones will be the better player over the length of their careers, but the pain is muted. I’ll take the World Series ring.

by Teej on Jul 7, 2009 11:48 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

In a freaking heartbeat.

Nice Guys Finish Third - My semantics are a waste of time.

by pdb on Jul 7, 2009 1:01 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Oh man oh man.

Washburn has gotten good results largely because of defense and luck. His defense independent numbers aren’t good.

OPS isn’t really all that great of a stat in terms of overall offensive evaluation, but he has hit fairly well you’re correct. The problem is that he gives a ton of that value back on defense. Endy Chavez has been worth nearly as many wins as Dye and he’s played far, far less.

And you obviously don’t understand how important it is to have young, cheap players on club control.

by acblue on Jul 7, 2009 11:18 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

While it's good that you're using FIP instead of ERA,

FIP has a big problem in that it completely ignores batted ball profiles. Now that we have reasonable play-by-play data, we should use that information to help us evaluate pitchers better, and this is what tRA does.

This year, Washburn’s batted ball profile hasn’t been good, and he’s been lucky on HR/FB ratio. These are things that make him look good by FIP, but not by tRA, which is the superior metric at this point.

by seattlebruin on Jul 7, 2009 11:48 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

If I might

Statements like

He’s got better numbers and is really pitching better than any of them.

Don’t really carry a lot of weight around here unless you actually cite the numbers. And by “numbers”, also understand that some nymbers are more valuable than others. And when you ask questions like

Tell me which teams #3 pitcher is better than Washburn?

You’ll get a lot of answers, because there are a lot of answers. And they’re all correct. In short, this is not a place where you can pull up a stool, outshout your neighbor, and expect to last – this place is serious about its stats, and about interpreting them correctly.

Nice Guys Finish Third - My semantics are a waste of time.

by pdb on Jul 7, 2009 11:23 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

And also, RE: prospects that never panned out:

Adam Jones, Asbrubal Cabrera, Shin Soo Choo, Kameron Mickolio, and a bunch of other dudes we traded away for garbage.

by acblue on Jul 7, 2009 11:24 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

I still moan every time I see Varitek in a Boston uniform

Lowe and Varitek for Heathcliff Slocumb. Arrrrrrrrgh

by lemonverbena on Jul 7, 2009 11:35 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

I like to think of that trade as "Lowe, Varitek, and Bragg for Slocumb and Moyer"

Obviously it didn’t actually happen that way, but it does make me feel better.

by katal on Jul 7, 2009 11:43 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Yeah, or Slocumb for Bragg

And Lowe/Tek for Moyer…

But still, even if you consider a HUGE blockbuster:

Putz, Green, Reed, Valbuena, Tillman, Butler, Sherrill, Jones and Morse,

for

Gutz, Cleto, Carp, Vargas, Cabrera, Olson, Chavez, Cedeno, Bedard, and Langerhans

I’m not sure the balance has swayed back yet. Need to trade Washburn for someone shiny to yin that yang.

This signature space for rent.

by PositivePaul on Jul 7, 2009 12:19 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Top prospects pan out much more often then they do not

And when you trade them away, you open your team up to the possibility a 2004-2008 style spell where the well goes dry.

Seriously, good young players are the most valuable asset in baseball.

by Poochie on Jul 7, 2009 11:41 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Your point is that we should trade our prospects for veterans because they never pan out, correct?

My point is that we’ve had plenty of prospects turn into useful players, but we don’t have them any more because we traded them for veterans.

Seriously, look at the rest of the league and the teams that have had lon, sustained periods of success. Throw out the Yankees and Red Sox for payroll reasons (although the Red Sox have plenty of their former prospects in their everyday lineup) and the common thread is that they have very rarely traded their most valuable prospects for veterans and have done an excellent job of building around cost controlled players. That is how you stay good.

by acblue on Jul 7, 2009 11:43 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

True, on the other hand

Hanley would be the best player in the league

by Poochie on Jul 7, 2009 11:49 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

World Series Win>>Unknown.

Obviously in terms of cost and WAR and talent and things like that it was a poor trade. But I would trade our entire farm system for a WS if it were possible.

That is the reason everyone plays the game. That, and millions of dollars.

Go Nova

by dbroncos31 on Jul 7, 2009 11:52 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Agreed.

But the Braves won in 1995. If you offered me 12 straight AL West titles but no WS wins or 14 years in which we made the playoffs 1 time and won the WS, I would probably take the WS title. If you think about it, we’ve already had 7 straight years without a playoff game. And the fact that we have never even made a WS while I’ve seen the Yankees win 4 right in front of me makes me yearn for that special and glorious day when Ichior and Felix get to hold up the World Series trophy.

Go Nova

by dbroncos31 on Jul 7, 2009 12:01 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

I think we've had this thread before

but I would rather be good for a long time and never win the WS than win one WS and suck balls the rest of the time.

by acblue on Jul 7, 2009 12:02 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Yeah, it's a tough question.

Honestly I’m just pumped that we might get meaningful September baseball again. Hopefully it’s not like 2007.

And maybe this is the beginning of a period in which we’re good every year AND win the WS a couple times. Yeah, that sounds good

Go Nova

by dbroncos31 on Jul 7, 2009 12:05 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Jeff nailed it earlier during ST

You win a championship and you’re happy for one month? two? And then the process starts over again. A championship should be the goal, but it’s not worth selling your soul for because then what? There’s still baseball to be played.

by Poochie on Jul 7, 2009 12:06 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

I remain unconvinced of this

I think it becomes a diminishing returns situation.

The first one you win is worth whatever it takes to get it – NCAA scandals, trading HOF players, selling your would, etc.

After that, you want to be successful for a long period of time because you’ve already been to the top and now you want to stay there as long as possible.

That’s how I look at it, at least. I’m still waiting for one of the four teams I care about to win it all.

by seattlebruin on Jul 7, 2009 12:08 PM PDT up reply actions   1 recs

I felt this way until the Seahawks lost the Super Bowl.

Yeah, it still hurts to think about it, but life goes on. 2008 was the worst experience of my life as a sports fan, and I’m not sure anything is worth that.

by acblue on Jul 7, 2009 12:11 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Same goes for the Yankees

The better win the division and not the WC, because I want to clinch on their field

by Poochie on Jul 7, 2009 12:12 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Absolutely not

I want our first pennant to be clinched at home.

by Robert on Jul 7, 2009 12:17 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Says the person who lives in Seattle

You can’t see the other fans cry if you are at home

by Poochie on Jul 7, 2009 12:18 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Taking the castle is more fun

Plus you can still win the WS at home

by Poochie on Jul 7, 2009 12:19 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Agreed.

I feel weird because technically I have seen my teams win 6 titles in my lifetime (Broncos 97-98, Lakers 00-02, 09), but I don’t count any of them except for ‘09. I was 8 years old when the Broncos first won; I had no idea what it really meant. And I liked the Lakers but didn’t really follow basketball until I went to Villanova and started really watching it. Even with the 1 title I know I’m luckier than most people. But what I want to see more than anything (other than a Nova NCAA title while I’m still there) is a Mariners or Flyers championship because both teams have suffered such long droughts and have come ohsoclose so many times.

Watching the Phillies win the WS last year was really weird. I was rooting for them (I love the Rays but a family friend in a minority owner of the Phils so wooo! free tix) and I was happy they won, but watching all the Phillie fans go wild made me extremely jealous. I cannot wait for the day when we’re in the WS and I spend all the money to my name to come to Seattle for Game 7 (Felix vs. Pineiro) and party in the streets for 4 days.

Go Nova

by dbroncos31 on Jul 7, 2009 12:17 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

It's like

would you rather be a fan of Miami or Ohio State this decade?

OSU has been consistently awesome in the regular season, lucked their way to 1 championship and lucked their way to 2 other championship games in which they got pasted.

Miami had two decent years, won a championship against a team that didn’t deserve to be there and got jobbed out of another, and then fell off the map.

[DELETED ZOMG NO POLITICS]

by bluemax on Jul 7, 2009 12:18 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Also NCAA death penalties

were not worth a couple of trips to the Sweet 16 :(

[DELETED ZOMG NO POLITICS]

by bluemax on Jul 7, 2009 12:19 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

I think that's a good example had they won it all the year they had Mayo

is it worth it to win a national title if you know you’re getting sanctioned afterwards? (let’s pretend in this world they got to keep the title).

So since usc has already won in football, would it worth it to you now to get sanctioned in football in exchange for another one?

by seattlebruin on Jul 7, 2009 12:21 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Miami because fuck OSU

Also the players were much better pros and in most cases way more talented.

Andy Randy Shannon has the program on a rebound

Go Nova

by dbroncos31 on Jul 7, 2009 12:21 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Also

Miami had better than 2 decent years. They were really good in ‘00, one of the better teams of all-time in ’01, great in ’02, and then were good in ’03 before dropping to decent in ’04/’05.

From ’00 to ’03, they were 46-4, with their worst record being 11-2. That was an amazing run.

Go Nova

by dbroncos31 on Jul 7, 2009 12:27 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

And?

Where I went to school 11-2 is most likely a failed season.

[DELETED ZOMG NO POLITICS]

by bluemax on Jul 7, 2009 1:17 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Our all american offensive lineman

is getting an MBA!

[DELETED ZOMG NO POLITICS]

by bluemax on Jul 7, 2009 1:18 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Also

Reggie Bush is the only player with evidence of taking money and he didn’t take it from anyone connected to the university.

As for basketball, I don’t see how we are any less shady or ambivalent about learning than any other school in the country.

[DELETED ZOMG NO POLITICS]

by bluemax on Jul 7, 2009 1:20 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Football and basketball are different things!

Everyone is cheating in hoops. It’s the only way to keep the kids from going pro!

[DELETED ZOMG NO POLITICS]

by bluemax on Jul 7, 2009 1:22 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

I'm not saying everyone isn't cheating in hoops

just that Davon Jefferson is a particularly egregious example of a guy who should have never been in college in the first place.

Renardo Sidney also comes to mind

by seattlebruin on Jul 7, 2009 1:23 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

I know my alma mater wasn't cheating at bball recruiting

because most of our team was Croatian and terrible.

by abender20 on Jul 7, 2009 1:24 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

I don't disagree

I wasn’t broken up about losing Sidney the guy had trouble written all over him.

[DELETED ZOMG NO POLITICS]

by bluemax on Jul 7, 2009 1:26 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Eh, it was a disappointment compared to the previous seasons,

but 11-2 with an Orange Bowl win is pretty good.

I wouldn’t call it a great season, but it was a very good one

Go Nova

by dbroncos31 on Jul 7, 2009 1:18 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

I'm not being serious.

[DELETED ZOMG NO POLITICS]

by bluemax on Jul 7, 2009 1:20 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

I figured, however

that season was a huge disappointment for the U. It’s ridiculous looking back after 3 bad years, but people were very upset that that team lost any games.

Go Nova

by dbroncos31 on Jul 7, 2009 1:22 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

That's how it is at a football factory

I started at USC in 01 when people were glad to be rid of He Who Can’t be Named and have a winning season.

It didn’t take long for the old sense of entitlement to creep up as soon as they had one undefeated season.

The reality is that it’s hard to actually go undefeated every year.

[DELETED ZOMG NO POLITICS]

by bluemax on Jul 7, 2009 1:28 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

It's like Yankees fans in 2003.

Making the World Series and losing was a failure as a season.

For comparison, if we are within 3 games of a playoff spot in mid-September, I will consider this season an unquestionable success. However, if the Lakers do not make the Western Finals next year I will be disappointed.

Go Nova

by dbroncos31 on Jul 7, 2009 1:34 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

One title isn't worth a Pirates' style tenure of misery

My whole point is that they would have been better with Hanley then they would with Beckett not only that season, but several years after. The fact that they won with worse players is irrelevant

by Poochie on Jul 7, 2009 11:54 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

I actually love prospects and minor leaguers as much as I love anything in baseball.

I obsess over our farm and I pray that in a couple of years Jack builds us one like Texas or Tampa Bay has now.

But I also look over at our neighbors in the division, the Angels, and thank god that they held onto Brandon Wood as long as they have and didn’t move him and some of their other guys when they had the chance.

I just don’t want any of our guys to turn out to be the next Felix Pie or in our case Balantien. i trust that Jack knows talent, I’m not worried about it.

by Kenny Knows Sports on Jul 7, 2009 11:51 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

You're selectively taking prospects who didn't pan out though

That’s a weird way to make an argument that trading for veterans is a good idea, just like it’d be dumb of me to say that prospects always pan out and you should never consider trading them away

by Graham on Jul 7, 2009 11:56 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Jah.

Tillman had a high ERA in High Desert, and Jones struggled when we occasionally gave him ABs during his 2007 call-up. Trading them for Bedard is a steal, because we all know that if you want to be a good playoff team, you need at least two aces in the rotation – that’s why we failed earlier this decade.

by katal on Jul 7, 2009 11:11 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

No if you want a good team you need to draft a lot of closers

because it shortens the game!

angels fan in seattle

by Eyebrows on Jul 7, 2009 11:18 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

I know this isn't how it works but I am able to handle the Bedard trade if I look at it as

Adam Jones and Chris Tillman for a shot at the 09 playoffs and Z’s new regime

by Robert on Jul 7, 2009 11:18 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Whatever. We have Langerhans now.

I already like him better than Adam Jones.

by Matthew on Jul 7, 2009 11:28 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

If Dye plays the outfield in Safeco, we can say farewell to our pitchers' confidence.

He’s still hitting, but he’s a mess with the glove. I’m inclined to think Langerhans would be more valuable for the rest of the season.

by Teej on Jul 7, 2009 11:10 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Everyone preaches about sample sizes.

Yet we’re supposed to believe that Langerhans won’t regress to his career .233 ba?

by Kenny Knows Sports on Jul 7, 2009 11:26 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

He probably will

But he’s +30 better on defense

by Poochie on Jul 7, 2009 11:28 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Pretty close estimate there.

Based on UZR samples, We’d expect Langerhans to be ~31 runs better per 150 games. Or about 15 runs better for the remaining half-season.

Dye’s offense would be about 10 runs better in a neutral park. But Safeco is not even close to neutral and would shrink that 10 runs to five at the most.

Langerhans is the better player and that is not even getting into the fact of salary and that we already have Langerhans on our team now.

by Matthew on Jul 7, 2009 11:33 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Look. I regret throwing any name out there to begin with. Jermaine Dye especially.

My point was now is the time to go for it. All that anyone in Seattle has talked about is “if we’re making a trade, it’s going to involve our starting pitching” and nobody has addressed that if we are buyers we do actually have to move some of our prospects down on the farm. At least not from what I’ve read. And I’m saying that we need to find a SS or someone who’s going to at least come close to what Branyan is doing. Branyan is going to start approaching his career high in at-bats and games by August/September and nobody has really acknowledged that he COULD get tired. And if we lose Branyan, it’s over.

by Kenny Knows Sports on Jul 7, 2009 11:45 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Again. You are simply looking at it from an offensive point of view.

That’s wrong. And there’s no telling what we would have to move to get people.

by Matthew on Jul 7, 2009 11:47 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Branyan has played full seasons in the minors, so that's not a concern

We’re not saying we shouldn’t try and “go for it”, we’re just saying that Dye would be a piss poor trade target

by Poochie on Jul 7, 2009 11:48 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

I think that selling any key part of the future for success this year is a terrible idea.

I’m fine with trading role players or guys that don’t have a real place in the organization or whatever, but the idea that you have to go for it and dump your young players to compete is what got us into this mess in the first place.

by acblue on Jul 7, 2009 11:48 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Probably will

But hitting for average is not as important as OBP or slugging, both of which he is fairly good at. And he is pretty good at defense.

by OlSalty on Jul 7, 2009 11:30 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Jermaine Dye isn't good

He isn’t. That’s all there is to it. Jermaine Dye would not be of realistic help to this baseball team.

by Jeff on Jul 7, 2009 11:32 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Not to jump on the pile

but the whole “a Jermaine Dye, a Jack Wilson” thing is the most annoying trend sports talk radio has ever created.

Just say “Jermaine Dye” or “Jack Wilson”. There is only one. Plus, hey, less typing!

by waldo rojas on Jul 7, 2009 12:47 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

On desktop or mobile?

My desktop works fine. This is gonna sound stupid, but maybe click in the whitespace somewhere and then try C or Z – it could be that the focus is on the twitter button or something if you used it before. But that’s just a guess.

Nice Guys Finish Third - My semantics are a waste of time.

by pdb on Jul 7, 2009 11:07 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

A game summary has 400+ comments?

Well either somebody said something stupid, or a major roster move just went down.

The Rise of a Superstar:Justin Upton-.425 wOBA, 21 years old.

by Goose on Jul 7, 2009 12:52 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

Whatever.

My comment was that the M’s have a good rotation for the playoffs and should make some moves by moving some minor league talent for some major league talent. SO SORRY.

by Kenny Knows Sports on Jul 7, 2009 12:56 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

"SO SORRY."

Act more like a child throwing a passive-aggressive tantrum. Really, do it.

by Matthew on Jul 7, 2009 12:57 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Something Graham said above made me think

Of this article by Jeff at the beginning of the season. So Jeff, do you think you undervalued how good our outfield defense would be, or is it largely luck?

by Sec 108 on Jul 7, 2009 12:56 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

I was wondering about that.

I knew he threw it for a ton of called strikes but couldn’t remember any swinging. Thanks for confirming that.

It will be interesting to see if he keeps trying to use it, and if people start to hit it.

by appleshampoo on Jul 7, 2009 1:45 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

be less needy

Nice Guys Finish Third - My semantics are a waste of time.

by pdb on Jul 7, 2009 1:25 PM PDT up reply actions   1 recs

oh wait

Nice Guys Finish Third - My semantics are a waste of time.

by pdb on Jul 7, 2009 1:25 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs