43-39, Game Notes
It would've been really easy to lose this game. No matter what the players might say about how they look at every game the same way, and how last week's trip was no different than any other, everybody knew it. Everybody in the clubhouse knew what they were up against in LA, New York, and Boston, and so, after putting so much energy into making a nightmarish trip a successful one, it would've been easy for the M's to come home and suffer a letdown. Hell, not only were they probably exhausted, but playing Baltimore doesn't really rev the engine quite like playing one of the beasts. I know I was having trouble getting amped. So to come out and put together a winning effort that at no point felt all that uneasy - that either says a lot about the M's or a lot about the O's, but winning like this was exactly what this team needed to do, and it puts my mind at ease. Forget about a letdown. If this team stumbles, it'll be independent of the most recent road trip, which means that we can now officially put what we thought would be a nine-game stretch of devastation in the books as an absolute, unquestionable success.
That's amazing.
- It's a funny thing about one-hitters - the longer they last, the worse you feel when they're over. Washburn only allowed the one single - Baltimore's only baserunner of the game - but because it happened in the fourth, superstition never had time to get involved, and come the final out, we were left to reflect not on a missed opportunity, but on a brilliantly-pitched game. I mean, yeah, everyone's going to wonder "what if?" about Markakis' liner, but because it was a clean hit that happened so early in the game, there was never any disappointment. For two hours and nine minutes, we just got to sit back and enjoy watching the Mariners make the Orioles look like the Mariners.
I didn't actually think Washburn looked that sharp in the early innings. He fell behind six of the first eight hitters he faced, and five of the Orioles' first 14 batters hit line drives. Even Dave Sims noted that Baltimore was hitting the ball on the nose, and they were just finding gloves. But as the second half of the game rolled around, Jarrod settled into one of those Mark Buehrle grooves where he knew where he was throwing the ball, and worked with a tempo that kept everyone comfortable but the guy at the plate. In the seventh and eighth innings, he got through Adam Jones, Nick Markakis, Aubrey Huff, and Ty Wigginton on six pitches. Washburn was dealing in true Ryan Franklin fashion, but the difference between Washburn and Franklin is that when Washburn is going well, he inspires confidence in the viewer. By the end of the game, I was fully on board. This was Jarrod Washburn's night, and no one was going to ruin it.
That was about as well-pitched a three-strikeout complete game as any you're going to see. It's important to note that Washburn still doesn't have a good tRA, and has been generating better results than we can expect to see in the future, but for right now, nine innings are nine innings. With Bedard going on a pitch count tomorrow, I don't know that Jarrod could've had better timing. - On two occasions tonight, Ryan Langerhans came within a few feet of leaving the yard to left-center field. In the sixth he lifted a deep fly ball that Nolan Reimold played into a double off the wall, and an inning later he hit another to around the same area with the bases loaded for a sac fly. Those are fly balls that leave a lot of other stadiums, and they serve as a reminder that he's not just another light-hitting fourth outfielder masquerading as a regular. Langerhans is a powerful man whose problem has always been making the right contact, and when he makes it, he can hit the ball a long way. Of course, power to the opposite field isn't exactly what we want out of our lefties in Safeco, but it's cool to see that Langerhans has that capability nonetheless. I know a lot of you are bummed about Wlad losing his playing time, but even the most devoted Balentien supporter has to admit that Langerhans is intriguing. And since he's still arbitration-eligible for a couple more years, a good showing here means he could offer some insurance next season should Saunders struggle, which is something not a lot of people have talked about.
- Russell Branyan hit his latest mammoth home run on a fastball outside off the plate. Branyan has actually hit a number of his home runs on fastballs outside off the plate. It's weird to say about a guy who strikes out so often, but Branyan has pretty good plate coverage, in that he's capable of going deep on a pitch anywhere in or around the zone. He definitely seems to have a preference for getting his arms extended on pitches away, though. I think Branyan might be one of those rare lefties I think about pitching in instead of away. Pitching him away must be terrifying.
- Actually, I wonder what it's like to face an all-or-nothing guy like Branyan. A pitcher knows he's an easy strikeout, which is good for the mindset, but he also knows that a 500 foot homer is a distinct possibility, which makes you nervous. Is a pitcher facing Branyan more excited or more uneasy than he is when facing a league-average hitter?
- Even during this little hot streak or whatever the hell it is that he's on, Ronny Cedeno is still perfectly capable of swinging like a damn retard. Today he swung seven times, missing with four of them, and for good measure whiffed on a squeeze opportunity on a fastball at the thigh. After careful consideration of his appearance through these first three months, I'm going to think of his current .491 OPS as the OPS an MLB team could expect if they called up a random little leaguer. If Cedeno can take a little league approach and little league swings against Major League pitching and still OPS .491, then by Jove, why couldn't anyone else? This makes Rob Johnson's .584 OPS a wee bit underwhelming.
- Since falling head-first into regular playing time a week ago, Chris Woodward has hit an almost completely empty .280, but that empty .280 includes things like his barehand stop and bases-loaded double tonight. The double essentially clinched the game, and the barehand on Adam Jones after ranging over a few nautical miles to his left was something out of the Beltre playbook. Woodward isn't a good player, and he's only playing now because the M's need someone to fill in while they scour the league for solutions, but the neat thing about small sample sizes is that anything can happen, and tonight, Woodward was a valuable player. While they look for someone else, the M's don't need Chris Woodward to be a better player than he is. They just need him to look like it. Tonight, he did a good job.
- I wonder how many times a batter has to foul a pitch a foot inside off his ankle before he stops chasing that pitch.
-
Erik Bedard on a pitch count tomorrow. It seems like there's something important going on with this team every day. I'm not 100% positive but I think that's good.
2 recs |
651 comments
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Comments
Oh, Dave.
My Mariners blog - SodoMojo Twitter Feed
by gregrabble on Jul 7, 2009 1:00 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs
I am so glad you included the picture of Sims and the hat.
The Rise of a Superstar:Justin Upton-.425 wOBA, 21 years old.
by Goose on Jul 7, 2009 1:10 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs
With that hat
I kind of expected Dave to issue a warning about non payment to his how during the broadcast
by greg briley on Jul 7, 2009 7:22 AM PDT via mobile up reply actions 0 recs
I think that hat need to appear on every players head.
I want to see Jr. in it.
or Corky.
by msb on Jul 7, 2009 8:15 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I expected him to go golfing with Bing Crosby at Pebble Beach
Nice Guys Finish Third - My semantics are a waste of time.
by pdb on Jul 7, 2009 10:15 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Notes from the Safe
*Ronny’s at-bat music, at least tonight, was “That’s What You Get” by Paramore. Now, I’m a sucker for chick bands and I actually like Paramore (ducks), but as your at-bat music in the major leagues? Come on Ronny, get some real music. And if he didn’t actually choose it and the random dude in the booth picked it, come on random dude in the booth. Don’t do that to Ronny while he’s currently hitting below the Mendoza line. Give yourself/him some real music.
*Really no electricity in the stadium, since the hit came in the 4th, but by the end I was floating. I have to say this was the best game I’ve seen in person. Note that I’m a new Ms fan (3 years as of a few weeks ago), so I don’t have a lot of history, but witnessing the first 1-hitter by an Ms pitcher in Safeco was pretty cool. Jarrod may be pitching way over his head, but this was fun to watch. Now if I never see a Felix no-hitter in my life at Safeco, I’ll feel robbed.
*I felt like Washburn’s curveball didn’t get enough credit on the postgame show, so when I called in I mentioned it. He was throwing it for strikes all night long, in a lot of counts (at least 2 first pitches that I remember). It sure as hell doesn’t have a lot of break, and is a lollipop curve if I understand the term correctly, but he was locating it and they weren’t hitting it, and it was fun to watch drop in there.
*Woody’s barehand grab and throw to first was Betre-esque, no doubt about it. It was pretty to watch.
*In the top of the 9th while the players warmed up, they played “The Distance” by Cake, which was a nice touch. Can’t remember off hand if I’ve seen a CG at Safeco before, but I thought that was cool.
*They were replaying the game at Collins Pub when I dropped in after the game for a few beers, which was fun. I had to leave after the 8th because they were closing (only thing I dislike about Collins, they close early all the time), but the game was so short it was cool to see a lot of it again in TV mode. And the Watermelon Wheat was amazing, if you like fruity beers like me. Really, it was like a watermelon jolly rancher dropped in a nice wheat beer, except you know, actually made to taste good. Mmmmmmmmm.
by appleshampoo on Jul 7, 2009 1:11 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs
I remember seeing Washburn pitch a similar CG shutout in person against the Yankees a couple years ago.
It’s surprising how Washburn can pull starts like these out of his ass sometimes. It’s almost like he will pitch below average (probably more average/above average this year) most of the time, then pitch an ace-like game every once in a blue moon.
2009 Safeco Field Record: 4-0 ; Overall Safeco Field Record: 8-4
by Fin on Jul 7, 2009 2:31 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
That was my first ever baseball game in person
And it was awesome,although it was 8ip not a SHO,which is fine by me because it meant that JJ came in for the save.
I was at Shea for the Felix-Slam!
Personal M's record: 5-4.
by EnglishMariner on Jul 7, 2009 3:43 AM PDT via mobile up reply actions 0 recs
Oooo!
Where is Collins Pub, por favor?
~I'm on the DA~
by section331 on Jul 7, 2009 6:08 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
In the bottom of Smith Tower
on Second Ave
by gustafm on Jul 7, 2009 8:43 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
When you say someones batting average is empty what exactly does that mean?
That he’s getting hits and not driving runners or is a sabermetrics statistic involved?
by russak on Jul 7, 2009 1:19 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs
I think it's just
Not a high OBP or SLG, which means they’re like Yuni or Vidro-roughly .300 average but a terrible hitter.
by Fuckmikereilly on Jul 7, 2009 1:20 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah, nothing but batting average
no power or walks.
by The Ancient Mariner on Jul 7, 2009 7:36 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
What a nice game.
And hey, SBN finally added mobile commenting.
by ThundaPC on Jul 7, 2009 1:29 AM PDT via mobile reply actions 0 recs
Ooh, so you can
The mobile interface is excellent here, too.
Nice one SBN. We approve.
by MarkE on Jul 7, 2009 1:34 AM PDT via mobile up reply actions 0 recs
It sucks that it says via mobile because otherwise it could be a real face saver when embarassing typos are made.
by acblue on Jul 7, 2009 9:24 AM PDT via mobile up reply actions 0 recs
Though my Blackberry has an outstanding spell checker,
I think a game thread would kill my Blackberry.
Racer X.
by InSpokane on Jul 7, 2009 9:37 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
It only usually displays around 20 messages per page.
I was at Shea for the Felix-Slam!
Personal M's record: 5-4.
by EnglishMariner on Jul 7, 2009 10:54 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Testing this out.
The pages are loading quicker, too. Very nice update last night.
by Wilder. on Jul 7, 2009 9:40 AM PDT via mobile up reply actions 0 recs
Another test here.
I am sitting in front of my laptop and my last comment didn’t auto-update (I had to refresh to see it).
Could someone please respond to this comment. I want to see if it will update after you do so.
by Wilder. on Jul 7, 2009 9:45 AM PDT via mobile up reply actions 0 recs
Here you go
anything exciting happen?
Nice Guys Finish Third - My semantics are a waste of time.
by pdb on Jul 7, 2009 9:46 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
It didn't update on my laptop.
I refreshed via mobile and there you are. Sec 108’s comment did update below, though, so comments are loading fine.
by Wilder. on Jul 7, 2009 9:50 AM PDT via mobile up reply actions 0 recs
Or maybe not.
Strange. I guess it makes sense when you comment from your phone the account on the computer becomes unassociated and you might as well not be logged in. Not a big deal considering you won’t be commenting from your phone when you are sitting in front of a computer… unless of course you want to pretend you are on the road or something.
by Wilder. on Jul 7, 2009 9:57 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
so, comments from oneself will never auto-update
If you’re logged in on two browsers, you’ll never see comments pop up from yourself. The system assumes you don’t need to see your own comments as updates. I believe this has always been the case.
proud to be creative director for SB Nation
by sixfoot6 on Jul 7, 2009 10:23 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
BUT I WANT TO TALK TO MYSELF DAMMIT
TALKING TO MYSELF ON THE BUS IS GETTING OLD AND I WANT TO TALK TO MYSELF ONLINE TOO.
Nice Guys Finish Third - My semantics are a waste of time.
by pdb on Jul 7, 2009 10:24 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I never tried two browsers at the same time.
I just figured maybe somebody commenting below would make it appear.
by Wilder. on Jul 7, 2009 10:56 AM PDT via mobile up reply actions 0 recs
I wasn't able to get the reply button to work on my phone,
but that may be because my phone sucks.
by Sec 108 on Jul 7, 2009 9:45 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
bash it against the desk a few times, that oughta loosen it up
Nice Guys Finish Third - My semantics are a waste of time.
by pdb on Jul 7, 2009 9:47 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Interesting
“Did you know you can comment on Lookout Landing from your phone or PDA? SB Nation has launched mobile commenting. Check it out next time you’re at the game or bar and have something to say.”
SBN appears to be promoting this.
by Taylor H on Jul 7, 2009 9:54 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
You're surprised they're promoting their own product?
Nice Guys Finish Third - My semantics are a waste of time.
by pdb on Jul 7, 2009 9:55 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
If they don't let anyone know about the existence of something they spent time and money on,
how will people know to use it?
by abender20 on Jul 7, 2009 10:04 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Science!
Nice Guys Finish Third - My semantics are a waste of time.
by pdb on Jul 7, 2009 10:04 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Awesome
Yesterday's Pants
A blog-thingy about the Mariners and stuff.
by BrettJMiller on Jul 7, 2009 9:58 AM PDT via mobile up reply actions 0 recs
So
who goes away for Bedard? Seems like it isn’t so easy to send Corcoran or Olson away anymore…seems most likely that Sweeney will go to the DL.
by Fuckmikereilly on Jul 7, 2009 1:32 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Hopefully the Angels
Don't believe the lies Bill!!!! look at the sparkly ERA!!! Sparkly, Sparkly!!! - McCovey Chronicles
by Trenchtown on Jul 7, 2009 1:44 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
So a 13 man staff and a bench consisting of Wlad, Rob Johnson/Kenji, and Josh Wilson?
Seems like that would only exacerbate our problems. Just send down one of the bullpen arms, Corco, Lowe, and Sean White all need to learn to throw strikes, so why not do it in Tacoma?
by I Lick Squirrels on Jul 7, 2009 1:52 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Oh, forgot about Shawn Kelley.
Hmm. I don’t think they’ll send down Lowe or White. Maybe Jakubauskas.
by Fuckmikereilly on Jul 7, 2009 2:08 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Jakubaskas is my Elvis-ubaskas.
by greg briley on Jul 7, 2009 7:15 AM PDT via mobile up reply actions 0 recs
Jakubauskas is not going anywhere.
Corco or White would go before Jak.
by Wilder. on Jul 7, 2009 8:34 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
my money would be on RCorc
He has been all kinds of inconsistent.
by greg briley on Jul 7, 2009 7:18 AM PDT via mobile up reply actions 0 recs
Carp is still on the roster I believe
by Bearskin Rugburn on Jul 7, 2009 7:32 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
If not Carp then Josh Wilson.
Who? Yeah, exactly.
by Bearskin Rugburn on Jul 7, 2009 7:33 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
No, Carp went down for Kelley
Personally, I’d do Sweeney to the DL anyway, then send down Corcoran and bring up Shelton.
by The Ancient Mariner on Jul 7, 2009 7:37 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
According to Dave Cameron's analysis
probably Garrett Olson; he laid out the rotation and due to the All-Star break and the way our games are scheduled afterward, the M’s will be able to go with a four-man rotation for a few turns. He’s figuring Olson goes down to keep starting in Tacoma (so that he’s available and stretched out if we need a starter) while Vargas moves into the ’pen for a couple weeks.
Makes sense to me.
by The Ancient Mariner on Jul 7, 2009 9:38 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Jeff, I just want to say thanks for these game summaries. Due to work and life I don't get to watch as many games as I would like, and these help.
Racer X.
by InSpokane on Jul 7, 2009 8:02 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs
seriously
these are great. It never feels right when a game goes by without one.
by Snuffleupagus on Jul 7, 2009 8:06 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
It feels a whole lot of not right when the M's take 2 of 3 in Boston without one
Less Jeff writing = wither LL
by lemonverbena on Jul 7, 2009 11:20 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Also
Jarrod will never wash his hand again.
= Gold
Racer X.
by InSpokane on Jul 7, 2009 9:35 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Actually a sort of dullish brown eventually turning to black
Nice Guys Finish Third - My semantics are a waste of time.
by pdb on Jul 7, 2009 9:55 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Woodward = WFBG?
That gamer’s effort, man … the effort …
David Ortiz > God
by brick Royl on Jul 7, 2009 10:06 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs
BTW...
It was mentioned on the broadcast last night that the M’s have the best record in baseball since June 19th.
This signature space for rent.
by PositivePaul on Jul 7, 2009 10:27 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Wow. Why does it still feel like it's not that good?
by Kenny Knows Sports on Jul 7, 2009 10:40 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Because of the Mariner history of having the other shoe drop right about now
Nice Guys Finish Third - My semantics are a waste of time.
by pdb on Jul 7, 2009 10:42 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Because we're still trailing two teams in the standings.
by Teej on Jul 7, 2009 10:43 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
SSS FTW
We’re tied for the best record in baseball since July 6th!
by PDXTai on Jul 7, 2009 10:43 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Not only that, we're undefeated in that stretch
Nice Guys Finish Third - My semantics are a waste of time.
by pdb on Jul 7, 2009 10:46 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
It's funny.
Were 11-5 since the 19th. But 13-6 since the 16th. Someone must have us beat going back three more days?
by Kenny Knows Sports on Jul 7, 2009 10:43 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
This was only my Second game attended
Have always been a Royals fan until moved out to Seattle recently. Had been a Mariners fan a long time ago.
Last night was very cool to see, and since it was in person that was the best (?) pitching from a SP that I have ever witnessed.
(?)= only 3Ks, but with all the great D, the groundouts and flyouts were just sweet.
Washburn mowed down the 7th before i could finish using the restroom. That is efficiency!!!
soon to change name to, "The Not So Curious Case of Benjamin Bratt"
by MarioVanPeebles Republic of China on Jul 7, 2009 10:48 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs
After last nights game and this current stretch
We have to at least consider the possibility that in a 5 and 7 game series, when the 4 and 5 starters go to the bullpen, we’d match up as well as any team in terms of starting pitching. And if that’s true, we need to start thinking about trading some of our beloved prospects for a Jermaine Dye, or a Jack Wilson, or both, to finally make a run at this GD World Series.
by Kenny Knows Sports on Jul 7, 2009 10:52 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Where the heck would we play Jermaine Dye?
by Rollo Tomasi on Jul 7, 2009 10:54 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I heard Kenny Lofton was looking for a gig, let's go after him too!
Nice Guys Finish Third - My semantics are a waste of time.
by pdb on Jul 7, 2009 11:02 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
We have 5 pitchers that could start game 1!
by Robert on Jul 7, 2009 10:59 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Actually, we have more than 50
there’s no reason we can’t call up Michael Pineda to start game 1
by seattlebruin on Jul 7, 2009 11:09 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Did you count Jamie Burke?
He’s still around.
angels fan in seattle
by Eyebrows on Jul 7, 2009 11:11 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
What?
Is that you, Bavasi?
by Wilder. on Jul 7, 2009 11:00 AM PDT via mobile up reply actions 0 recs
So... is baseball one of the sports that Kenny knows?
by Bearskin Rugburn on Jul 7, 2009 11:01 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
You know that Jarrod Washburn is a below-average starting pitcher, right?
by Jeff on Jul 7, 2009 11:03 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Tell me which teams #3 pitcher is better than Washburn?
Joe Saunders? Armando Galarraga? Wakefield/Penny/Smoltz? Andy Pettitte?
He’s got better numbers and is really pitching better than any of them.
I’m sorry but Dye’s got a .935 OPS, he’s helped other teams make it to the postseason and world series. I don’t know if he can play or is willing to play left, but if he is/can, those 10-15 homers he’s going to hit in the final two months of the season and playoffs would be very helpful.
How many stupid prospects have we tightly held onto that never panned out? Travis Blackley? Nageotte? Ramon Vazquez? Yeah, we’ve traded away some good ones, but given the depth we appear to have at catcher, I’m ready to move a Jeff Clement or an Adam Moore for a proven bat or a steady SS glove.
by Kenny Knows Sports on Jul 7, 2009 11:13 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
You need some help in understanding how to properly value baseball players.
by Matthew on Jul 7, 2009 11:15 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
But Kenny Knows Sports.
angels fan in seattle
by Eyebrows on Jul 7, 2009 11:16 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
And if you are willing to listen, we are willing to help.
If you are, instead, going to refuse to listen to new information, then you will be constantly mocked.
In a nutshell, the above two sentences are what LL is about.
by Matthew on Jul 7, 2009 11:16 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
That and tickle parties.
angels fan in seattle
by Eyebrows on Jul 7, 2009 11:17 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
If I'm willing to listen to you tell me that I need help in understanding player values?
Fine, you think I’m an idiot because I made a comment about us needing to make a trade. I didn’t make any trade proposals, I just threw some names out there and said these are guys who could potentially help us out and let’s not subtract from out major league roster in doing that. BFD.
by Kenny Knows Sports on Jul 7, 2009 11:24 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
We already have many DHs already
There’s no place for Dye, and moving from Comiskey to Safeco would likely eat into his power
by Poochie on Jul 7, 2009 11:25 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
No, I think you are an idiot because of the thought process that you said went into the players you listed
as potentially helping us out.
Seriously, I am not being vain here. We know baseball. This is not just a hobby, we are paid to know it.
by Matthew on Jul 7, 2009 11:25 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Kenny, if you take nothing else from this whole thing know that Matthew is correct here.
Nice Guys Finish Third - My semantics are a waste of time.
by pdb on Jul 7, 2009 11:26 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
This is exactly the kind of attitude that will make people hate you.
The authors here know way more about baseball than you do (or I do, or pretty much everyone else here) and they have the credentials to prove it. To dismiss their criticism of your thought process out of hand is appallingly arrogant.
by acblue on Jul 7, 2009 11:26 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Listen, I'm pretty much BRAND NEW here.
I don’t know Matthew from any of you. You can take it as me thinking I’m smarter than everyone else here, but you’re just wrong. I don’t think I’m smarter than anyone here, I’m trying to be as cautious as possible when making comments.
All I am asking Matthew is “What do you mean?” You just said “we’re willing to help if you’re willing to listen”
I’m all ears, just explain to me why, just for arguments sake, why adding Jermaine Dye (and let’s say we claimed him off waivers for nothing) would hurt the Mariners.
by Kenny Knows Sports on Jul 7, 2009 11:34 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Your comment here
http://www.lookoutlanding.com/2009/7/6/940297/43-39-game-notes#17889983
in no ways convenes an attitude of sincerely asking for help.
by Matthew on Jul 7, 2009 11:37 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
But you suggested a player that has little to no value to us. If you had suggested a player that filled a need, say like a short stop, then maybe we would have given you more respect.
Racer X.
by InSpokane on Jul 7, 2009 11:28 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I said Jack Wilson. As many other writers around Seattle have.
by Kenny Knows Sports on Jul 7, 2009 11:34 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
And nobody is picking issue with that.
What got picked issue with was Dye playing LF, and your reasoning including the phrases “helped teams get into the playoffs before” and “10-15 home runs”
by Matthew on Jul 7, 2009 11:36 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
See, just saying that, you're telling me what you think I did wrong but not why it's wrong?
Look, I’m not Bob Costas or someone who’s just going to believe that sports is all magic. But I do put some weight into a player who has been to the playoffs a few times before.
by Kenny Knows Sports on Jul 7, 2009 11:41 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Well I think you're going to have trouble finding very many people here who agree with you on that
and until you can give anyone a valid reason to agree with you, prepare to have that line of thinking criticized.
by acblue on Jul 7, 2009 11:44 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Nobody here is happy to have Griffey and Sweeney?
by Kenny Knows Sports on Jul 7, 2009 11:52 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I sure as hell know that I am not.
Griffey, whatever. Sweeney sucks and should never have been on the roster.
by acblue on Jul 7, 2009 11:53 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I wish Sweeny's parents had practiced abstinence
by Robert on Jul 7, 2009 11:55 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Everyone who practices abstinence fails now and then.
That’s why it’s practice.
angels fan in seattle
by Eyebrows on Jul 7, 2009 11:56 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Or thinks that 2008 was a total disaster because of clubhouse attitude?
by Kenny Knows Sports on Jul 7, 2009 11:53 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
2008 was a total disaster because of lack of talent and some bad luck.
angels fan in seattle
by Eyebrows on Jul 7, 2009 11:53 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
It was a total disaster because we kept fielding a bunch of no talent assclowns
by Graham on Jul 7, 2009 11:53 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Jose Vidro batting cleanup!
angels fan in seattle
by Eyebrows on Jul 7, 2009 11:54 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
And the bunt-vacuum Miguel Cairo at first base!
by Teej on Jul 7, 2009 11:55 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
But he can call the pitches from the bench!
angels fan in seattle
by Eyebrows on Jul 7, 2009 11:56 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
2008 was a disaster because we lost a lot.
by Robert on Jul 7, 2009 11:56 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Also, God would it be awesome to have someone like Strasburg in the bullpen in October
(this is not a draft a closer joke)
by seattlebruin on Jul 7, 2009 11:59 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Fucking Oakland
We’d be sitting so pretty if we had Strasburg lined up for 2010
by Graham on Jul 7, 2009 11:58 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Billy Beane is a crafty devil and played the scrubs in order to tank the series.
angels fan in seattle
by Eyebrows on Jul 7, 2009 11:59 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Just to clear up, I didn't mean disaster just because of bad attitudes. But I think in baseball when you come to the park bitching everyday, you're going to lose more often.
by Kenny Knows Sports on Jul 7, 2009 11:59 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
That's football you're thinking of
you know, the one where teamwork actually is really important
by seattlebruin on Jul 7, 2009 12:00 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Again, I've never seen anyone give actual evidence of this.
The 2002 SF Giants hated each other and went to the WS.
by acblue on Jul 7, 2009 12:00 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
And actually came fairly close to winning it.
by seattlebruin on Jul 7, 2009 12:01 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
BUT THEY WERE DEFEATED BY THE ANGELS' HEART AND GRIT
What now, statlovers?!
angels fan in seattle
by Eyebrows on Jul 7, 2009 12:02 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
(also the Angels hit like 5000% more homeruns than in the regular season)
But smallball!
angels fan in seattle
by Eyebrows on Jul 7, 2009 12:02 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
It's still a mind game. So if Manny Ramirez wants to go out there and make his team worse everyday he can do it much easier than he can make them better.
Just like a Richie Sexson can or a Scott Spezio or any pitcher who decides “screw this team, we ain’t making the playoffs, I’m going to let the other team have a field day.”
You can’t do that in football or basketball where the other guys control the game just as much.
by Kenny Knows Sports on Jul 7, 2009 12:05 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Baseball players are way too competitive for that.
by acblue on Jul 7, 2009 12:05 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Really? All of them? Every single one? The "Black Sox" weren't to competitive for it.
by Kenny Knows Sports on Jul 7, 2009 12:06 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
That's a really bad argument.
Firstly, that was 1919. Secondly, the Black Sox happened because baseball was essentially a slave trade back then and Charlie Comiskey was one of the most miserly owners in baseball. The players were paid very little and had no incentive to win.
by Matthew on Jul 7, 2009 12:08 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
They were competitive
but they played a million years ago, made no money, and wanted to stick it to their owner
by Poochie on Jul 7, 2009 12:08 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Stop believing the bullshit the media crams down your throat
by Graham on Jul 7, 2009 12:06 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I didn't claim any of what I said to be true, I'm just saying names that some people have mentioned before.
by Kenny Knows Sports on Jul 7, 2009 12:07 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
But you claim to believe it.
angels fan in seattle
by Eyebrows on Jul 7, 2009 12:08 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
We sucked because we're terrible on leap years
by Graham on Jul 7, 2009 12:08 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I believe that it has and does happen, but I am not saying that those three guys ever did.
by Kenny Knows Sports on Jul 7, 2009 12:09 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
We've had what 3 or 4 guys at least go on the DL because of psychological problems. Some of the players in baseball are crammed with steroids. There are 25 players playing for 30 teams and we're supposed to believe that none of them has ever decided to
have a bad day?
by Kenny Knows Sports on Jul 7, 2009 12:11 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah, because a guy wakes up and thinks
“hey, you know what, I just don’t give a fuck today, and when people find out, I’ll lose my multi-million dollar job forever.”
by seattlebruin on Jul 7, 2009 12:12 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Obviously there's no way to find out.
by Kenny Knows Sports on Jul 7, 2009 12:13 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Then stop putting forth the proposition that it's true.
angels fan in seattle
by Eyebrows on Jul 7, 2009 12:14 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Those 'psychological problems' are 'teams getting rid of shitty players'
by Graham on Jul 7, 2009 12:12 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Maybe some, but what about Greinke?
angels fan in seattle
by Eyebrows on Jul 7, 2009 12:13 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah, but a situation where a guy has a diagnosable medical disorder
is completely different than “hey this team’s psyche is messed up because player x won’t go out for drinks after the game with his teammates”
by seattlebruin on Jul 7, 2009 12:14 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I dunno, I think Dontrelle might have lost it.
by acblue on Jul 7, 2009 12:13 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Can you point to a single documented piece of evidence that
supports that any player in recent history decided to perform worse than he could because he hated his teammates or some shit?
by Matthew on Jul 7, 2009 12:07 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Can you give any evidence that it's impossible for a player to not try hard on a given day?
Or we’re supposed to believe that BASEBALL PLAYERS play the game completely pure?
by Kenny Knows Sports on Jul 7, 2009 12:08 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
The burden of proof is not on me. It's on you.
by Matthew on Jul 7, 2009 12:09 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
You don't need burden of proof for an opinion, as I've been saying that's what this is the whole time.
by Kenny Knows Sports on Jul 7, 2009 12:14 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
But if you argue that opinion with others, you need to back it up.
angels fan in seattle
by Eyebrows on Jul 7, 2009 12:14 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Unless you're just saying
“I think this, even though I have no good reason to do so.” In which case we’ll hopefully just ignore something so insubstantial, unless it’s really stupid.
angels fan in seattle
by Eyebrows on Jul 7, 2009 12:15 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Otherwise your opinion will be dissected
contrary to popular belief, there are wrong opinions – all the ones that fly directly in the face of established evidence.
by seattlebruin on Jul 7, 2009 12:15 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Sorry
I figured out of all the people commenting here, one person would say “Yes, it’s possible, though we have no way of knowing for sure.”
Not just a “gang up on the new guy and don’t agree with one thing he says and hopefully he’ll leave for good” type thing.
by Kenny Knows Sports on Jul 7, 2009 12:19 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah, that's a good way to characterize this place.
Really endearing.
by Matthew on Jul 7, 2009 12:20 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
This is ganging up on your opinions, not ganging up on you
by Graham on Jul 7, 2009 12:20 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
If you think that's what we're doing you've never seen us actually do that.
This is an environment where we’re you are expected to defend your opinions and if you can’t do that, sorry.
by acblue on Jul 7, 2009 12:20 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
We are not going to be tolerant of opinions that we disagree with.
We will force you to back them up. If you cannot handle that, there are other places on the internet to hang out.
by Matthew on Jul 7, 2009 12:21 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
And if you can provide evidence to support your assertions, we will concede that you're probably right
it’s not a “gang up on opinions,” it’s “who can prove the strongest point?”
by seattlebruin on Jul 7, 2009 12:23 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Well
My only point is that its f’ing retarded to think that every player in baseball is a good old boy who will do whatever it takes and give 100 percent everyday to help his team win. And that out of those guys who don’t give 100 percent, some of them will decide that the guy pitching that day is an asshole so he’s going to miss a few catches, ground into some double plays, WHATEVER.
I never thought that any one little statement I ever said would turn into a long discussion about how “Kenny Doesn’t Know Sports” Jesus, I made that name like 15 years ago, I didn’t know I’d regret it someday.
by Kenny Knows Sports on Jul 7, 2009 12:28 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
So your opinion is this
Not every player tried hard all the time.
Therefore:
Players are deliberately tanking.
by Graham on Jul 7, 2009 12:29 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
My opinion
is that baseball is a team sport and it isn’t. It’s a game where players are affected by the guys around them, but at the same time, any one individual can tank it if he wants to and lose the game if he wants to. And that out of all these millionaires with major egos, I believe some don’t give a crap about winning. So if you management doesn’t “give me a new contract” or “trade me to New York” I’m going to screw us up for awhile.
These guys don’t work for the Peace Corps. They’re not heroes. They’re just baseball players.
by Kenny Knows Sports on Jul 7, 2009 12:32 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
As I said above, I find this almost impossible to believe.
It is almost impossible to make it to the major leagues and being that much of a lazy ass or a crazy person couldn’t help your chances.
by acblue on Jul 7, 2009 12:34 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
It would be impossible to believe that Chris Woodward would do it
Because he only gets so many chances.
Yet if you’ve got talent, you’ll get as many chances as you want. Why does Sidney Ponson keep getting a job?
by Kenny Knows Sports on Jul 7, 2009 12:35 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
"These guys don’t work for the Peace Corps. They’re not heroes."
This is a fairly ridiculous strawman.
If a player is deliberately tanking, it’s pretty easy to isolate his performance and remove him from the team. Ergo, it makes no sense for a player to tank unless he’s absolutely crazy and has no intention of continuing his baseball career.
by Graham on Jul 7, 2009 12:35 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Do you believe that the Reds hitters were trying as hard to get in a hit in the ninth inning yesterday as they would be if the score was 1-0?
by Kenny Knows Sports on Jul 7, 2009 12:42 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Their average OPS when down by 21 runs in the 9th is higher than when down by 1 so I'll go with yes
by Graham on Jul 7, 2009 12:44 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Facing shittier pitchers at that point!
But you knew that. Still had to say it.
angels fan in seattle
by Eyebrows on Jul 7, 2009 12:46 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Or if we assume that they no longer gave a shit we can use this as an example of talent trumping effort
by Graham on Jul 7, 2009 12:47 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
And going back to my original comment about the 2008 Mariners..
is that July was like them being down 21 runs. they didn’t give a shit, they tanked it. They didn’t play up to their talent level, even if they weren’t all that talented to begin with, player play up to the level of talent around them and also play down to the level of talent around them.
by Kenny Knows Sports on Jul 7, 2009 12:51 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Russell Branyan is surrounded by offensive retards and he's dominating.
Rob Johnson is surrounded by people who know how to play baseball and he still isn’t good.
by abender20 on Jul 7, 2009 12:53 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Russell Branyan is playing on a winning team in a pennant race.
Rob Johnson’s overall numbers aren’t good, but he’s gotten some key hits.
by Kenny Knows Sports on Jul 7, 2009 12:54 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
So you've gone from baseball players don't all care about winning
To baseball players on the 2008 team realised they couldn’t win and tanked.
The worst players from that team no longer have a baseball career. Assuming they’re sane and like having an income, there is no good reason for them to not play hard each day.
by Graham on Jul 7, 2009 12:54 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
You're right. They all tried completely.
by Kenny Knows Sports on Jul 7, 2009 12:59 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
That's not the argument
the argument is “you must be able to prove that the Mariners dogged it in 2008.”
Graham neither said they dogged it or that they tried hard, only that it was much more unlikely that they were dogging it.
by seattlebruin on Jul 7, 2009 1:01 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
So the players decided to play at less than 100% of their ability
for an entire three months of the season because the team sucked?
Is that what you are alleging? Yes or no?
by Matthew on Jul 7, 2009 12:55 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Again, how do you know this?
They underperfomed but there were plenty of players playing for contracts, a place in next year’s lineup, pride, etc. Adrian Beltre’s numbers last year were way better after the M’s were out of it than they were early in the season. And the team also played a lot of marginal minor league players after they were no longer in contention to see if there was anything of value there.
To claim that the team tanked late in the year simply because they didn’t perform as well as expected is just absurd.
by acblue on Jul 7, 2009 12:57 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Youre right its absurd
I take every word I’ve said today back.
by Kenny Knows Sports on Jul 7, 2009 12:59 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Give me some reason that I should believe you.
by acblue on Jul 7, 2009 1:00 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Everyone is right except me. I concede.
by Kenny Knows Sports on Jul 7, 2009 1:00 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Seriously, be less of a fucking baby or go away.
All anyone is asking for is something tangible and instead of offering that you’re acting like a fourth grader.
by acblue on Jul 7, 2009 1:02 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Good. I am glad you finally see the massive errors in your ways.
Feel free to respond to me here if I am misrepresenting you as being 100% sincere in your above statement.
by Matthew on Jul 7, 2009 1:02 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Okay then.
Whew, now we can all move on with our day.
by Matthew on Jul 7, 2009 1:05 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
So let me get this right
A person makes an opinion that everyone else disagrees with. That person then tries to think of ways to backup that opinion and after a few hours of not getting anywhere decides, “Okay, I’m wrong and I want to go on with my day” and before he gets a chance to explain that, you BLOCK him from lookoutlanding?
Call ME a baby? How mature is it to block a person for saying “Okay, youre right. Im wrong.”?
by Howisthatmature? on Jul 7, 2009 1:13 PM PDT up reply actions 2 recs
Hello again, friend!
angels fan in seattle
by Eyebrows on Jul 7, 2009 1:13 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
It was the passive-agressiveness of it all
if you just accept that we’re going to rip up baseless arguments, it’s not so bad
by seattlebruin on Jul 7, 2009 1:14 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
And you didn't say that you were wrong.
You were being sarcastic and passive agressive and really just a giant fucking baby about it.
angels fan in seattle
by Eyebrows on Jul 7, 2009 1:14 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Because your response was patronizing and insincere.
by abender20 on Jul 7, 2009 1:14 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Because you weren't eating crow at all
You were instead taking a bunch of passive aggressive snipes at the people who were asking you to back up your arguments with sound reasoning.
by OlSalty on Jul 7, 2009 1:16 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Can I have the time back, please?
by NOLAmarinergirl on Jul 7, 2009 1:05 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Were you not entertained?
Although with that time back maybe I could actually get some work done.
angels fan in seattle
by Eyebrows on Jul 7, 2009 1:06 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I find it impossible to believe that players tank on purpose with any regularity.
by acblue on Jul 7, 2009 12:30 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
If I don't like one of my colleagues I'll just not show up to work
That’ll show them
by Graham on Jul 7, 2009 12:31 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Graham, to be fair
all the baseball players show up. What he’s arguing is that you might do badly on something that he needs your participation to complete.
angels fan in seattle
by Eyebrows on Jul 7, 2009 12:32 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Except in baseball we can measure individual performance
by Graham on Jul 7, 2009 12:33 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Right, but those measurements can't really judge intention.
I side with you – I think that to make it to that level, anyone who is less than a total professional has been weeded out.
I was just pointing out that it might not have been the best analogy.
angels fan in seattle
by Eyebrows on Jul 7, 2009 12:35 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I still think it's a fairly good one
It’s the equivalent of biting off your nose to spite your face
by Graham on Jul 7, 2009 12:37 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Especially since baseball players
that get a whiff of a reputation for dogging it suffer from it for a long time.
by Matthew on Jul 7, 2009 12:38 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
What the hell ever happened to D'Angelo Jimenez?
by Jeff on Jul 7, 2009 12:39 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
But they still had to dog it at one time or another to get that reputation, so it does happen.
by Kenny Knows Sports on Jul 7, 2009 12:52 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
There's a difference between trying to lose ball games
and not sprinting hard to first on an obvious out.
by abender20 on Jul 7, 2009 12:54 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
How do you not get that "dogging it"
does not mean the same thing as malicious tanking? This boggles my mind that you equate the two.
by Matthew on Jul 7, 2009 12:54 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I don't equate the two. You made a comment about dogging it. I replied.
by Kenny Knows Sports on Jul 7, 2009 12:55 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
By connecting it to your previous statements about
players intentionally missing catches.
by Matthew on Jul 7, 2009 12:56 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Unlike a sport like basketball or soccer, maximum physical/cardiovascular effort does very little to help teams win in baseball.
You should run hard on ground balls, but it makes very little difference in the end.
by Decatur on Jul 7, 2009 12:56 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yes
But in both cases of baseball vs. work, not showing up is much more obvious to the outsider than screwing something up “on accident.”
Anyway, we’re just arguing semantics and agree on the main point of the argument.
angels fan in seattle
by Eyebrows on Jul 7, 2009 12:38 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
July 2, 2009 was not 15 years ago.
I’m worried about your perception of time. Perhaps it could imply some other issues you might want to get checked out.
angels fan in seattle
by Eyebrows on Jul 7, 2009 12:30 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Umm, I didn't just choose the name when I signed up for LL. Its from yahoo.
by Kenny Knows Sports on Jul 7, 2009 12:33 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Well that explains everything.
angels fan in seattle
by Eyebrows on Jul 7, 2009 12:34 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
In my opinion, the sky is green.
I don’t need to prove it, it’s an opinion.
by Tube on Jul 7, 2009 12:15 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Can we just skip ahead to the part where we conclude that we can't measure chemistry?
by Jeff on Jul 7, 2009 12:09 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I think it's time to replace 'chemistry' with a different word
by Poochie on Jul 7, 2009 12:10 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Their Tickle+ is 126!
angels fan in seattle
by Eyebrows on Jul 7, 2009 12:11 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I think that it's impossible to measure chemistry in any meaningful way
and we should stop counting it until something useful is discovered.
by seattlebruin on Jul 7, 2009 12:10 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Dude you totally can.

angels fan in seattle
by Eyebrows on Jul 7, 2009 12:10 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
You're arguing a positive
You’re the one who has to prove it
by Graham on Jul 7, 2009 12:09 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
You have to evaluate players as a total package.
What they provide on offense, defense, on the payroll and in opportunity cost.
Phrases like “10-15 home runs” tell a misleading part of the story.
by Matthew on Jul 7, 2009 11:44 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
From Matthew's post below:
Based on UZR samples, We’d expect Langerhans to be ~31 runs better per 150 games. Or about 15 runs better for the remaining half-season.
Dye’s offense would be about 10 runs better in a neutral park. But Safeco is not even close to neutral and would shrink that 10 runs to five at the most.
Assuming that playoff experience has any value at all do you think it will make up the ~10 run gap between Langerhans and Dye, not to mention the salary and trade costs?
by Nate Dogg on Jul 7, 2009 11:49 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
The problem with Dye is that he is an awful, awful defensive player
he plays in a bandbox in Chicago, and is right-handed, a poor fit for Safeco Field. Also, he has a huge monetary and prospect price tag, and the upgrade he would provide over even Griffey (seriously) would be so marginal as to not be worth it.
The team would be much better off upgrading at catcher or shortstop with a longer-term or cheaper solution than Jermaine Dye.

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