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43-39, Game Notes

Jarrod will never wash his hand again.

More photos » by Ted S. Warren - AP

Jarrod will never wash his hand again.

It would've been really easy to lose this game. No matter what the players might say about how they look at every game the same way, and how last week's trip was no different than any other, everybody knew it. Everybody in the clubhouse knew what they were up against in LA, New York, and Boston, and so, after putting so much energy into making a nightmarish trip a successful one, it would've been easy for the M's to come home and suffer a letdown. Hell, not only were they probably exhausted, but playing Baltimore doesn't really rev the engine quite like playing one of the beasts. I know I was having trouble getting amped. So to come out and put together a winning effort that at no point felt all that uneasy - that either says a lot about the M's or a lot about the O's, but winning like this was exactly what this team needed to do, and it puts my mind at ease. Forget about a letdown. If this team stumbles, it'll be independent of the most recent road trip, which means that we can now officially put what we thought would be a nine-game stretch of devastation in the books as an absolute, unquestionable success.

That's amazing.

  • It's a funny thing about one-hitters - the longer they last, the worse you feel when they're over. Washburn only allowed the one single - Baltimore's only baserunner of the game - but because it happened in the fourth, superstition never had time to get involved, and come the final out, we were left to reflect not on a missed opportunity, but on a brilliantly-pitched game. I mean, yeah, everyone's going to wonder "what if?" about Markakis' liner, but because it was a clean hit that happened so early in the game, there was never any disappointment. For two hours and nine minutes, we just got to sit back and enjoy watching the Mariners make the Orioles look like the Mariners.

    I didn't actually think Washburn looked that sharp in the early innings. He fell behind six of the first eight hitters he faced, and five of the Orioles' first 14 batters hit line drives. Even Dave Sims noted that Baltimore was hitting the ball on the nose, and they were just finding gloves. But as the second half of the game rolled around, Jarrod settled into one of those Mark Buehrle grooves where he knew where he was throwing the ball, and worked with a tempo that kept everyone comfortable but the guy at the plate. In the seventh and eighth innings, he got through Adam Jones, Nick Markakis, Aubrey Huff, and Ty Wigginton on six pitches. Washburn was dealing in true Ryan Franklin fashion, but the difference between Washburn and Franklin is that when Washburn is going well, he inspires confidence in the viewer. By the end of the game, I was fully on board. This was Jarrod Washburn's night, and no one was going to ruin it.

    That was about as well-pitched a three-strikeout complete game as any you're going to see. It's important to note that Washburn still doesn't have a good tRA, and has been generating better results than we can expect to see in the future, but for right now, nine innings are nine innings. With Bedard going on a pitch count tomorrow, I don't know that Jarrod could've had better timing.

  • On two occasions tonight, Ryan Langerhans came within a few feet of leaving the yard to left-center field. In the sixth he lifted a deep fly ball that Nolan Reimold played into a double off the wall, and an inning later he hit another to around the same area with the bases loaded for a sac fly. Those are fly balls that leave a lot of other stadiums, and they serve as a reminder that he's not just another light-hitting fourth outfielder masquerading as a regular. Langerhans is a powerful man whose problem has always been making the right contact, and when he makes it, he can hit the ball a long way. Of course, power to the opposite field isn't exactly what we want out of our lefties in Safeco, but it's cool to see that Langerhans has that capability nonetheless. I know a lot of you are bummed about Wlad losing his playing time, but even the most devoted Balentien supporter has to admit that Langerhans is intriguing. And since he's still arbitration-eligible for a couple more years, a good showing here means he could offer some insurance next season should Saunders struggle, which is something not a lot of people have talked about.

  • Russell Branyan hit his latest mammoth home run on a fastball outside off the plate. Branyan has actually hit a number of his home runs on fastballs outside off the plate. It's weird to say about a guy who strikes out so often, but Branyan has pretty good plate coverage, in that he's capable of going deep on a pitch anywhere in or around the zone. He definitely seems to have a preference for getting his arms extended on pitches away, though. I think Branyan might be one of those rare lefties I think about pitching in instead of away. Pitching him away must be terrifying.

  • Actually, I wonder what it's like to face an all-or-nothing guy like Branyan. A pitcher knows he's an easy strikeout, which is good for the mindset, but he also knows that a 500 foot homer is a distinct possibility, which makes you nervous. Is a pitcher facing Branyan more excited or more uneasy than he is when facing a league-average hitter?

  • Even during this little hot streak or whatever the hell it is that he's on, Ronny Cedeno is still perfectly capable of swinging like a damn retard. Today he swung seven times, missing with four of them, and for good measure whiffed on a squeeze opportunity on a fastball at the thigh. After careful consideration of his appearance through these first three months, I'm going to think of his current .491 OPS as the OPS an MLB team could expect if they called up a random little leaguer. If Cedeno can take a little league approach and little league swings against Major League pitching and still OPS .491, then by Jove, why couldn't anyone else? This makes Rob Johnson's .584 OPS a wee bit underwhelming.

  • Since falling head-first into regular playing time a week ago, Chris Woodward has hit an almost completely empty .280, but that empty .280 includes things like his barehand stop and bases-loaded double tonight. The double essentially clinched the game, and the barehand on Adam Jones after ranging over a few nautical miles to his left was something out of the Beltre playbook. Woodward isn't a good player, and he's only playing now because the M's need someone to fill in while they scour the league for solutions, but the neat thing about small sample sizes is that anything can happen, and tonight, Woodward was a valuable player. While they look for someone else, the M's don't need Chris Woodward to be a better player than he is. They just need him to look like it. Tonight, he did a good job.

  • I wonder how many times a batter has to foul a pitch a foot inside off his ankle before he stops chasing that pitch.

  • 76578660_medium

Erik Bedard on a pitch count tomorrow. It seems like there's something important going on with this team every day. I'm not 100% positive but I think that's good.

2 recs  |  Comment 651 comments |

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Comments

Display:

I am so glad you included the picture of Sims and the hat.

The Rise of a Superstar:Justin Upton-.425 wOBA, 21 years old.

by Goose on Jul 7, 2009 1:10 AM PDT reply actions   0 recs

With that hat

I kind of expected Dave to issue a warning about non payment to his how during the broadcast

by greg briley on Jul 7, 2009 7:22 AM PDT via mobile up reply actions   0 recs

Notes from the Safe

*Ronny’s at-bat music, at least tonight, was “That’s What You Get” by Paramore. Now, I’m a sucker for chick bands and I actually like Paramore (ducks), but as your at-bat music in the major leagues? Come on Ronny, get some real music. And if he didn’t actually choose it and the random dude in the booth picked it, come on random dude in the booth. Don’t do that to Ronny while he’s currently hitting below the Mendoza line. Give yourself/him some real music.

*Really no electricity in the stadium, since the hit came in the 4th, but by the end I was floating. I have to say this was the best game I’ve seen in person. Note that I’m a new Ms fan (3 years as of a few weeks ago), so I don’t have a lot of history, but witnessing the first 1-hitter by an Ms pitcher in Safeco was pretty cool. Jarrod may be pitching way over his head, but this was fun to watch. Now if I never see a Felix no-hitter in my life at Safeco, I’ll feel robbed.

*I felt like Washburn’s curveball didn’t get enough credit on the postgame show, so when I called in I mentioned it. He was throwing it for strikes all night long, in a lot of counts (at least 2 first pitches that I remember). It sure as hell doesn’t have a lot of break, and is a lollipop curve if I understand the term correctly, but he was locating it and they weren’t hitting it, and it was fun to watch drop in there.

*Woody’s barehand grab and throw to first was Betre-esque, no doubt about it. It was pretty to watch.

*In the top of the 9th while the players warmed up, they played “The Distance” by Cake, which was a nice touch. Can’t remember off hand if I’ve seen a CG at Safeco before, but I thought that was cool.

*They were replaying the game at Collins Pub when I dropped in after the game for a few beers, which was fun. I had to leave after the 8th because they were closing (only thing I dislike about Collins, they close early all the time), but the game was so short it was cool to see a lot of it again in TV mode. And the Watermelon Wheat was amazing, if you like fruity beers like me. Really, it was like a watermelon jolly rancher dropped in a nice wheat beer, except you know, actually made to taste good. Mmmmmmmmm.

by appleshampoo on Jul 7, 2009 1:11 AM PDT reply actions   0 recs

I remember seeing Washburn pitch a similar CG shutout in person against the Yankees a couple years ago.

It’s surprising how Washburn can pull starts like these out of his ass sometimes. It’s almost like he will pitch below average (probably more average/above average this year) most of the time, then pitch an ace-like game every once in a blue moon.

2009 Safeco Field Record: 4-0 ; Overall Safeco Field Record: 8-4

by Fin on Jul 7, 2009 2:31 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

That was my first ever baseball game in person

And it was awesome,although it was 8ip not a SHO,which is fine by me because it meant that JJ came in for the save.

I was at Shea for the Felix-Slam!
Personal M's record: 5-4.

by EnglishMariner on Jul 7, 2009 3:43 AM PDT via mobile up reply actions   0 recs

Oooo!

Where is Collins Pub, por favor?

~I'm on the DA~

by section331 on Jul 7, 2009 6:08 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

When you say someones batting average is empty what exactly does that mean?

That he’s getting hits and not driving runners or is a sabermetrics statistic involved?

by russak on Jul 7, 2009 1:19 AM PDT reply actions   0 recs

I think it's just

Not a high OBP or SLG, which means they’re like Yuni or Vidro-roughly .300 average but a terrible hitter.

by Fuckmikereilly on Jul 7, 2009 1:20 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

What a nice game.

And hey, SBN finally added mobile commenting.

by ThundaPC on Jul 7, 2009 1:29 AM PDT via mobile reply actions   0 recs

Ooh, so you can

The mobile interface is excellent here, too.

Nice one SBN. We approve.

by MarkE on Jul 7, 2009 1:34 AM PDT via mobile up reply actions   0 recs

Testing this out.

The pages are loading quicker, too. Very nice update last night.

by Wilder. on Jul 7, 2009 9:40 AM PDT via mobile up reply actions   0 recs

Another test here.

I am sitting in front of my laptop and my last comment didn’t auto-update (I had to refresh to see it).

Could someone please respond to this comment. I want to see if it will update after you do so.

by Wilder. on Jul 7, 2009 9:45 AM PDT via mobile up reply actions   0 recs

Here you go

anything exciting happen?

Nice Guys Finish Third - My semantics are a waste of time.

by pdb on Jul 7, 2009 9:46 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

It didn't update on my laptop.

I refreshed via mobile and there you are. Sec 108’s comment did update below, though, so comments are loading fine.

by Wilder. on Jul 7, 2009 9:50 AM PDT via mobile up reply actions   0 recs

Or maybe not.

Strange. I guess it makes sense when you comment from your phone the account on the computer becomes unassociated and you might as well not be logged in. Not a big deal considering you won’t be commenting from your phone when you are sitting in front of a computer… unless of course you want to pretend you are on the road or something.

by Wilder. on Jul 7, 2009 9:57 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

so, comments from oneself will never auto-update

If you’re logged in on two browsers, you’ll never see comments pop up from yourself. The system assumes you don’t need to see your own comments as updates. I believe this has always been the case.

proud to be creative director for SB Nation

by sixfoot6 on Jul 7, 2009 10:23 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

BUT I WANT TO TALK TO MYSELF DAMMIT

TALKING TO MYSELF ON THE BUS IS GETTING OLD AND I WANT TO TALK TO MYSELF ONLINE TOO.

Nice Guys Finish Third - My semantics are a waste of time.

by pdb on Jul 7, 2009 10:24 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

I never tried two browsers at the same time.

I just figured maybe somebody commenting below would make it appear.

by Wilder. on Jul 7, 2009 10:56 AM PDT via mobile up reply actions   0 recs

Interesting

“Did you know you can comment on Lookout Landing from your phone or PDA? SB Nation has launched mobile commenting. Check it out next time you’re at the game or bar and have something to say.”

SBN appears to be promoting this.

by Taylor H on Jul 7, 2009 9:54 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Awesome

Yesterday's Pants
A blog-thingy about the Mariners and stuff.

by BrettJMiller on Jul 7, 2009 9:58 AM PDT via mobile up reply actions   0 recs

So

who goes away for Bedard? Seems like it isn’t so easy to send Corcoran or Olson away anymore…seems most likely that Sweeney will go to the DL.

by Fuckmikereilly on Jul 7, 2009 1:32 AM PDT reply actions   0 recs

Hopefully the Angels

Don't believe the lies Bill!!!! look at the sparkly ERA!!! Sparkly, Sparkly!!! - McCovey Chronicles

by Trenchtown on Jul 7, 2009 1:44 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

So a 13 man staff and a bench consisting of Wlad, Rob Johnson/Kenji, and Josh Wilson?

Seems like that would only exacerbate our problems. Just send down one of the bullpen arms, Corco, Lowe, and Sean White all need to learn to throw strikes, so why not do it in Tacoma?

by I Lick Squirrels on Jul 7, 2009 1:52 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Oh, forgot about Shawn Kelley.

Hmm. I don’t think they’ll send down Lowe or White. Maybe Jakubauskas.

by Fuckmikereilly on Jul 7, 2009 2:08 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Jakubauskas is not going anywhere.

Corco or White would go before Jak.

by Wilder. on Jul 7, 2009 8:34 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

my money would be on RCorc

He has been all kinds of inconsistent.

by greg briley on Jul 7, 2009 7:18 AM PDT via mobile up reply actions   0 recs

No, Carp went down for Kelley

Personally, I’d do Sweeney to the DL anyway, then send down Corcoran and bring up Shelton.

by The Ancient Mariner on Jul 7, 2009 7:37 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

According to Dave Cameron's analysis

probably Garrett Olson; he laid out the rotation and due to the All-Star break and the way our games are scheduled afterward, the M’s will be able to go with a four-man rotation for a few turns. He’s figuring Olson goes down to keep starting in Tacoma (so that he’s available and stretched out if we need a starter) while Vargas moves into the ’pen for a couple weeks.

Makes sense to me.

by The Ancient Mariner on Jul 7, 2009 9:38 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Also
Jarrod will never wash his hand again.

= Gold

Racer X.

by InSpokane on Jul 7, 2009 9:35 AM PDT reply actions   0 recs

Woodward = WFBG?

That gamer’s effort, man … the effort …

David Ortiz > God

by brick Royl on Jul 7, 2009 10:06 AM PDT reply actions   0 recs

This was only my Second game attended

Have always been a Royals fan until moved out to Seattle recently. Had been a Mariners fan a long time ago.

Last night was very cool to see, and since it was in person that was the best (?) pitching from a SP that I have ever witnessed.

(?)= only 3Ks, but with all the great D, the groundouts and flyouts were just sweet.

Washburn mowed down the 7th before i could finish using the restroom. That is efficiency!!!

soon to change name to, "The Not So Curious Case of Benjamin Bratt"

by MarioVanPeebles Republic of China on Jul 7, 2009 10:48 AM PDT reply actions   0 recs

After last nights game and this current stretch

We have to at least consider the possibility that in a 5 and 7 game series, when the 4 and 5 starters go to the bullpen, we’d match up as well as any team in terms of starting pitching. And if that’s true, we need to start thinking about trading some of our beloved prospects for a Jermaine Dye, or a Jack Wilson, or both, to finally make a run at this GD World Series.

by Kenny Knows Sports on Jul 7, 2009 10:52 AM PDT reply actions   0 recs

Tell me which teams #3 pitcher is better than Washburn?

Joe Saunders? Armando Galarraga? Wakefield/Penny/Smoltz? Andy Pettitte?

He’s got better numbers and is really pitching better than any of them.

I’m sorry but Dye’s got a .935 OPS, he’s helped other teams make it to the postseason and world series. I don’t know if he can play or is willing to play left, but if he is/can, those 10-15 homers he’s going to hit in the final two months of the season and playoffs would be very helpful.

How many stupid prospects have we tightly held onto that never panned out? Travis Blackley? Nageotte? Ramon Vazquez? Yeah, we’ve traded away some good ones, but given the depth we appear to have at catcher, I’m ready to move a Jeff Clement or an Adam Moore for a proven bat or a steady SS glove.

by Kenny Knows Sports on Jul 7, 2009 11:13 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

And if you are willing to listen, we are willing to help.

If you are, instead, going to refuse to listen to new information, then you will be constantly mocked.

In a nutshell, the above two sentences are what LL is about.

by Matthew on Jul 7, 2009 11:16 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

If I'm willing to listen to you tell me that I need help in understanding player values?

Fine, you think I’m an idiot because I made a comment about us needing to make a trade. I didn’t make any trade proposals, I just threw some names out there and said these are guys who could potentially help us out and let’s not subtract from out major league roster in doing that. BFD.

by Kenny Knows Sports on Jul 7, 2009 11:24 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

We already have many DHs already

There’s no place for Dye, and moving from Comiskey to Safeco would likely eat into his power

by Poochie on Jul 7, 2009 11:25 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

No, I think you are an idiot because of the thought process that you said went into the players you listed

as potentially helping us out.

Seriously, I am not being vain here. We know baseball. This is not just a hobby, we are paid to know it.

by Matthew on Jul 7, 2009 11:25 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

This is exactly the kind of attitude that will make people hate you.

The authors here know way more about baseball than you do (or I do, or pretty much everyone else here) and they have the credentials to prove it. To dismiss their criticism of your thought process out of hand is appallingly arrogant.

by acblue on Jul 7, 2009 11:26 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Listen, I'm pretty much BRAND NEW here.

I don’t know Matthew from any of you. You can take it as me thinking I’m smarter than everyone else here, but you’re just wrong. I don’t think I’m smarter than anyone here, I’m trying to be as cautious as possible when making comments.

All I am asking Matthew is “What do you mean?” You just said “we’re willing to help if you’re willing to listen”

I’m all ears, just explain to me why, just for arguments sake, why adding Jermaine Dye (and let’s say we claimed him off waivers for nothing) would hurt the Mariners.

by Kenny Knows Sports on Jul 7, 2009 11:34 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

And nobody is picking issue with that.

What got picked issue with was Dye playing LF, and your reasoning including the phrases “helped teams get into the playoffs before” and “10-15 home runs”

by Matthew on Jul 7, 2009 11:36 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

See, just saying that, you're telling me what you think I did wrong but not why it's wrong?

Look, I’m not Bob Costas or someone who’s just going to believe that sports is all magic. But I do put some weight into a player who has been to the playoffs a few times before.

by Kenny Knows Sports on Jul 7, 2009 11:41 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Well I think you're going to have trouble finding very many people here who agree with you on that

and until you can give anyone a valid reason to agree with you, prepare to have that line of thinking criticized.

by acblue on Jul 7, 2009 11:44 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

That's football you're thinking of

you know, the one where teamwork actually is really important

by seattlebruin on Jul 7, 2009 12:00 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Again, I've never seen anyone give actual evidence of this.

The 2002 SF Giants hated each other and went to the WS.

by acblue on Jul 7, 2009 12:00 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

It's still a mind game. So if Manny Ramirez wants to go out there and make his team worse everyday he can do it much easier than he can make them better.

Just like a Richie Sexson can or a Scott Spezio or any pitcher who decides “screw this team, we ain’t making the playoffs, I’m going to let the other team have a field day.”

You can’t do that in football or basketball where the other guys control the game just as much.

by Kenny Knows Sports on Jul 7, 2009 12:05 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Can you point to a single documented piece of evidence that

supports that any player in recent history decided to perform worse than he could because he hated his teammates or some shit?

by Matthew on Jul 7, 2009 12:07 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Can you give any evidence that it's impossible for a player to not try hard on a given day?

Or we’re supposed to believe that BASEBALL PLAYERS play the game completely pure?

by Kenny Knows Sports on Jul 7, 2009 12:08 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Unless you're just saying

“I think this, even though I have no good reason to do so.” In which case we’ll hopefully just ignore something so insubstantial, unless it’s really stupid.

angels fan in seattle

by Eyebrows on Jul 7, 2009 12:15 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Otherwise your opinion will be dissected

contrary to popular belief, there are wrong opinions – all the ones that fly directly in the face of established evidence.

by seattlebruin on Jul 7, 2009 12:15 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Sorry

I figured out of all the people commenting here, one person would say “Yes, it’s possible, though we have no way of knowing for sure.”

Not just a “gang up on the new guy and don’t agree with one thing he says and hopefully he’ll leave for good” type thing.

by Kenny Knows Sports on Jul 7, 2009 12:19 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

If you think that's what we're doing you've never seen us actually do that.

This is an environment where we’re you are expected to defend your opinions and if you can’t do that, sorry.

by acblue on Jul 7, 2009 12:20 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

We are not going to be tolerant of opinions that we disagree with.

We will force you to back them up. If you cannot handle that, there are other places on the internet to hang out.

by Matthew on Jul 7, 2009 12:21 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

And if you can provide evidence to support your assertions, we will concede that you're probably right

it’s not a “gang up on opinions,” it’s “who can prove the strongest point?”

by seattlebruin on Jul 7, 2009 12:23 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Well

My only point is that its f’ing retarded to think that every player in baseball is a good old boy who will do whatever it takes and give 100 percent everyday to help his team win. And that out of those guys who don’t give 100 percent, some of them will decide that the guy pitching that day is an asshole so he’s going to miss a few catches, ground into some double plays, WHATEVER.

I never thought that any one little statement I ever said would turn into a long discussion about how “Kenny Doesn’t Know Sports” Jesus, I made that name like 15 years ago, I didn’t know I’d regret it someday.

by Kenny Knows Sports on Jul 7, 2009 12:28 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

So your opinion is this

Not every player tried hard all the time.

Therefore:

Players are deliberately tanking.

by Graham on Jul 7, 2009 12:29 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

My opinion

is that baseball is a team sport and it isn’t. It’s a game where players are affected by the guys around them, but at the same time, any one individual can tank it if he wants to and lose the game if he wants to. And that out of all these millionaires with major egos, I believe some don’t give a crap about winning. So if you management doesn’t “give me a new contract” or “trade me to New York” I’m going to screw us up for awhile.

These guys don’t work for the Peace Corps. They’re not heroes. They’re just baseball players.

by Kenny Knows Sports on Jul 7, 2009 12:32 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

"These guys don’t work for the Peace Corps. They’re not heroes."

This is a fairly ridiculous strawman.

If a player is deliberately tanking, it’s pretty easy to isolate his performance and remove him from the team. Ergo, it makes no sense for a player to tank unless he’s absolutely crazy and has no intention of continuing his baseball career.

by Graham on Jul 7, 2009 12:35 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Facing shittier pitchers at that point!

But you knew that. Still had to say it.

angels fan in seattle

by Eyebrows on Jul 7, 2009 12:46 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

And going back to my original comment about the 2008 Mariners..

is that July was like them being down 21 runs. they didn’t give a shit, they tanked it. They didn’t play up to their talent level, even if they weren’t all that talented to begin with, player play up to the level of talent around them and also play down to the level of talent around them.

by Kenny Knows Sports on Jul 7, 2009 12:51 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

So you've gone from baseball players don't all care about winning

To baseball players on the 2008 team realised they couldn’t win and tanked.

The worst players from that team no longer have a baseball career. Assuming they’re sane and like having an income, there is no good reason for them to not play hard each day.

by Graham on Jul 7, 2009 12:54 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

That's not the argument

the argument is “you must be able to prove that the Mariners dogged it in 2008.”

Graham neither said they dogged it or that they tried hard, only that it was much more unlikely that they were dogging it.

by seattlebruin on Jul 7, 2009 1:01 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Again, how do you know this?

They underperfomed but there were plenty of players playing for contracts, a place in next year’s lineup, pride, etc. Adrian Beltre’s numbers last year were way better after the M’s were out of it than they were early in the season. And the team also played a lot of marginal minor league players after they were no longer in contention to see if there was anything of value there.

To claim that the team tanked late in the year simply because they didn’t perform as well as expected is just absurd.

by acblue on Jul 7, 2009 12:57 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Youre right its absurd

I take every word I’ve said today back.

by Kenny Knows Sports on Jul 7, 2009 12:59 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Seriously, be less of a fucking baby or go away.

All anyone is asking for is something tangible and instead of offering that you’re acting like a fourth grader.

by acblue on Jul 7, 2009 1:02 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Good. I am glad you finally see the massive errors in your ways.

Feel free to respond to me here if I am misrepresenting you as being 100% sincere in your above statement.

by Matthew on Jul 7, 2009 1:02 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Okay then.

Whew, now we can all move on with our day.

by Matthew on Jul 7, 2009 1:05 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

So let me get this right

A person makes an opinion that everyone else disagrees with. That person then tries to think of ways to backup that opinion and after a few hours of not getting anywhere decides, “Okay, I’m wrong and I want to go on with my day” and before he gets a chance to explain that, you BLOCK him from lookoutlanding?

Call ME a baby? How mature is it to block a person for saying “Okay, youre right. Im wrong.”?

by Howisthatmature? on Jul 7, 2009 1:13 PM PDT up reply actions   2 recs

Hello again, friend!

angels fan in seattle

by Eyebrows on Jul 7, 2009 1:13 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

It was the passive-agressiveness of it all

if you just accept that we’re going to rip up baseless arguments, it’s not so bad

by seattlebruin on Jul 7, 2009 1:14 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

And you didn't say that you were wrong.

You were being sarcastic and passive agressive and really just a giant fucking baby about it.

angels fan in seattle

by Eyebrows on Jul 7, 2009 1:14 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Because you weren't eating crow at all

You were instead taking a bunch of passive aggressive snipes at the people who were asking you to back up your arguments with sound reasoning.

by OlSalty on Jul 7, 2009 1:16 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Graham, to be fair

all the baseball players show up. What he’s arguing is that you might do badly on something that he needs your participation to complete.

angels fan in seattle

by Eyebrows on Jul 7, 2009 12:32 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Right, but those measurements can't really judge intention.

I side with you – I think that to make it to that level, anyone who is less than a total professional has been weeded out.

I was just pointing out that it might not have been the best analogy.

angels fan in seattle

by Eyebrows on Jul 7, 2009 12:35 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

I still think it's a fairly good one

It’s the equivalent of biting off your nose to spite your face

by Graham on Jul 7, 2009 12:37 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Especially since baseball players

that get a whiff of a reputation for dogging it suffer from it for a long time.

by Matthew on Jul 7, 2009 12:38 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

There's a difference between trying to lose ball games

and not sprinting hard to first on an obvious out.

by abender20 on Jul 7, 2009 12:54 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Yes

But in both cases of baseball vs. work, not showing up is much more obvious to the outsider than screwing something up “on accident.”

Anyway, we’re just arguing semantics and agree on the main point of the argument.

angels fan in seattle

by Eyebrows on Jul 7, 2009 12:38 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

You're arguing a positive

You’re the one who has to prove it

by Graham on Jul 7, 2009 12:09 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

You have to evaluate players as a total package.

What they provide on offense, defense, on the payroll and in opportunity cost.

Phrases like “10-15 home runs” tell a misleading part of the story.

by Matthew on Jul 7, 2009 11:44 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

From Matthew's post below:
Based on UZR samples, We’d expect Langerhans to be ~31 runs better per 150 games. Or about 15 runs better for the remaining half-season.

Dye’s offense would be about 10 runs better in a neutral park. But Safeco is not even close to neutral and would shrink that 10 runs to five at the most.

Assuming that playoff experience has any value at all do you think it will make up the ~10 run gap between Langerhans and Dye, not to mention the salary and trade costs?

by Nate Dogg on Jul 7, 2009 11:49 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

The problem with Dye is that he is an awful, awful defensive player

he plays in a bandbox in Chicago, and is right-handed, a poor fit for Safeco Field. Also, he has a huge monetary and prospect price tag, and the upgrade he would provide over even Griffey (seriously) would be so marginal as to not be worth it.

The team would be much better off upgrading at catcher or shortstop with a longer-term or cheaper solution than Jermaine Dye.