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Around SBN: Pacquiao vs Bradley: Potential Undercard Fighters

Reviewing the Jarrod Washburn/Luke French/Mauricio Robles Trade

Somewhere around a year ago, I ripped into Chuck Armstrong. I mean, I really ripped into him. The Mariners and Twins had agreed on a Jarrod Washburn trade that, for whatever reason, Armstrong saw fit to nix, and in the midst of a disaster of a season, that was enough to set me off. I can't remember the last time I so vividly felt the cold elixir of fury coursing through my veins. That was a bad day to know Jeff.

Now, I'm not going to apologize. I meant everything I said, and it was an unforgivable decision that hurt both our talent level in the future and our financial flexibility in 2009. Had we been able to spend the Washburn money elsewhere over this past offseason, there's no telling what the team would look like or where it would be in the standings.

But what I will say is that I never, never in my wildest dreams, could've imagined the whole situation going on to still work out as well as it did. Had I known that the potential for this sort of move would exist down the road, I doubt I would've flipped out to the egregious extent that I did.

Jack Zduriencik killed it. Leading up to the deadline, there'd been rumblings that we'd have to settle for a weak package if we moved Washburn, and that there was a chance we wouldn't even move him at all. Between those rumors and the Jack Wilson/Ian Snell maneuver, I think a lot of people were preparing themselves to be less than ecstatic. So to wake up to something like this - something so out-and-out wonderful - I don't think anyone ever lost faith in the Zduriencik front office, but it's hard not to feel like they just redeemed themselves. For what? I don't know. But their stock just keeps rising.

For his part, I'd like to thank Jarrod Washburn for his efforts. Obviously there's no hiding the fact that I've never been a fan, but his improvement this year played a big part in keeping the Mariners in the hunt for so long, and even when he wasn't getting good results, he's always been an honest person and an excellent interview. I'm thrilled that he's gone, but I do wish him well in Detroit. They'll be happy to have him, and in a league where LAnaheim, Boston, and New York look like virtual postseason sure things, there's a good chance I'm not yet done rooting for Jarrod to succeed.

As for the return...well, what a return. We'll start with Luke French. French never really impressed a whole lot early on in his professional career, but this year something changed and his numbers took off. Facing the highest levels of competition he's ever seen, French chopped his walk rate and started to strike some batters out, turning him from generic lefty prospect to prospect with upside. No, his ceiling isn't very high. Lefties who top out around 91 without any extraordinary secondary offerings don't turn into big league stoppers very often. But what French gives us is a lefty who throws more strikes and misses more bats than Jarrod Washburn right now, and he's under cheap team control for another six years. Six years! For all those people who wanted to see Washburn get an extension - he kind of just did, for six years and little money, with the only catch being that he also becomes more than a decade younger.

French - like Jason Vargas - is the sort of young player the league seems to be underrating right now, that being a guy with little upside but a good deal of certainty. He's perfectly capable of giving us a bunch of cheap years of #3/4-level performance, and that gives us an advantage. This is a team that, barring something unforeseen, won't have to worry about paying money to fill out the back of its rotation. We're pretty much set, which will allow Zduriencik to turn his attention towards fixing the lineup.

High-80s heater, low-80s change, high-70s slider, balls in the air - we've seen this package work before, and now we'll get to see it try to work again, for next to nothing. That's terrific.

I would've been more than happy to trade Washburn for French alone. The fact that we got Mauricio Robles as well just takes this from good trade to beer-at-12-on-a-Friday worthy. Robles is a 20 year old kid who's striking out more than a batter an inning against high-A competition. I'd describe him as a live arm with a good fastball and developing secondary stuff, but while that sounds like the scouting report of pretty much any Latino pitcher in the low minors, what makes Robles more notable is the fact that he's having success at what is, for a guy his age, an advanced level. Yes, he has yet to perfect his curve. Yes, his change has a long way to go before it's a weapon. But Robles has taken it up a notch in 2009, and when you see a kid suddenly improve his strikeout rate by 33% and succeed against higher competition, you get excited. Robles may not go anywhere, but he's already made excellent progress, and he has it in him to turn into a power starter or high-leverage reliever down the road. He's a better arm than any we gave away to Pittsburgh.

When I went to bed last night, I wasn't sure what to expect from Zduriencik with regards to the whole Washburn situation. Turns out that had little to do with the M's wanting to keep Washburn around and everything to do with our front office just not letting anything slip. To the critique that they overplayed their hand, Zduriencik and company just issued a most delicious rebuttal.

We are in excellent hands.

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I loved the Dough Melvin quote yesterday

Saying the M’s would be happy to hold on to Washburn for the rest of the season.

I wonder how that happened…

Melvin: Jack, I don’t think we’re going to make the playoffs this year so I’m not going to give you anything for Washburn.

Zduriencik: Doug, I understand. Would you mind doing me a favor?

Melvin: Sure, what’s that?

Zduriencik: Tell the press that we’re happy with Washburn’s performance and not looking to trade him.

Melvin: Sure thing.

by CMC_Stags on Jul 31, 2009 12:51 PM PDT reply actions  

Dave Cameron was on LL the other day saying that Jack Z. had blown it with Washburn.

Obviously he’s taken that back a hundred times over during the last few hours. I’ve never seen him eat crow so graciously and with such obvious pleasure.

I don't know how to stop.

by esoteric on Jul 31, 2009 12:56 PM PDT reply actions  

I understood Dave's frustration, though I thought maybe he was overdoing it a bit.

I can sort of see Dave as Jeff Daniels in the move Dumb & Dumber after Jim Carrey pulls up on a motor scooter and announces how it got it.

“Just when I thought you couldn’t get any dumber…. you go and do this…. AND COMPLETELY REDEEM YOURSELF!”

Only not, y’know, ironic.

Fans are typically idiots.

by The Typical Idiot Fan on Jul 31, 2009 1:47 PM PDT up reply actions  

Did you have to bring up Jeff Daniels in Dumb&Dumber?

Now, all I can picture is Jeff Daniels on the toilet after he intakes the laxative.

by M'sin.. on Jul 31, 2009 3:49 PM PDT up reply actions  

My favorite thing about the trade is what a fucking snake Zduriencik has shown himself to be

All the misiinformation out there about not wanting to move Wash, about buying for a run this year (which the Snell trade can be construed as, though it isn’t) and all the way up to Doug Melvin saying to national media as recently as last night that Jack isbuysing and will not move Washburn (favor for a friend?)… Zduriencik handled this trade like a ninja.

About French – crappy fastball, good change, flyballs, does all this add up to Feierabend with good control?

De Gutibus non disputandum est

by Bearskin Rugburn on Jul 31, 2009 1:11 PM PDT reply actions  

With our current outfield defense

Feierabend may not have sucked as much as he did when he was in the big leagues. As long as we have a good outfield defense and Safeco Field, a flyball lefty is a good bet.

by b_rider on Jul 31, 2009 1:37 PM PDT up reply actions  

The shark, babe, has pretty teeth dear, and he shows them, pearly whites

Just a Jack knife!

Hard work never killed nobody, but I won't take my chances.

by JAH on Jul 31, 2009 4:22 PM PDT up reply actions  

The fact that we got Mauricio Robles as well just takes this from good trade to beer-at-12-on-a-Friday worthy.

I love this line Jeff, well done!

"Fights begin, finger prints are took, days is lost, bail is made, court dates are ignored, cycle is repeated."

by Thingray on Jul 31, 2009 1:12 PM PDT reply actions  

I have never been happier to be an M's fan than I am this year

I don’t even care about the actual names involved in any of the trades. I’m just in awe of the fact that, for the first time in 32 years, the M’s both have a plan to succeed and an ability to execute that plan successfully.

These are exciting times to be a Mariners fan.

Nice Guys Finish Third - My semantics are a waste of time.

by pdb on Jul 31, 2009 1:12 PM PDT reply actions  

In two years, Silva and Johjima's contracts are gone.

I cannot wait for this point in the future. GMZ has done such a remarkable job rebuilding the team over the past nine months, it’s going to be remarkable to see what he can do once he has scratch to spend.

by katal on Jul 31, 2009 1:17 PM PDT reply actions  

Maybe sooner on Johjima

since Dave was intimating on USSM that the M’s are going to eat his money and move him — either a trade or back to Japan; if he just goes back to Japan, one would think we might be able to buy him out and save a bunch of that contract.

by The Ancient Mariner on Jul 31, 2009 1:44 PM PDT up reply actions  

Well...

That just means we’d be rid of Johjima. We’d still be eating his contract til 2011.
I’m hoping that – $12M (Silva) – $8M (Johjima) = +$20M (Felix) in 2011

by Adam B on Jul 31, 2009 2:29 PM PDT up reply actions  

I can't think of

Any circumstances short of Johjima pulling a “Washburn”, where the Mariners wouldn’t end up eating the majority of his paycheck.

And anyone want to venture what the odds on Johjima matching his 2006 numbers are?
About as beefy as Brandon Fahey I’d imagine.

by Adam B on Aug 1, 2009 12:02 AM PDT up reply actions  

Think more of a Sasaki than a Washburn

Yesterday's Pants
A blog-thingy about the Mariners and stuff.

by BrettJMiller on Aug 1, 2009 2:23 AM PDT up reply actions  

This trade deadline has made me realize how much I love the Mariners' FO team and how much I hate the Nationals' FO team.

As of this moment, I think I’m temporarily suspending my Nationals fandom and going full-time with the Mariners. Only Joe Beimel traded? NICK JOHNSON STILL ON THE TEAM? Fuck ‘em, fuck ’em all. Sign Strasburg and we’ll talk.

Anybody want to sell me on a National League rooting interest that isn’t the goddamned Mets or Dodgers? I’m moving to Madison, so maybe the Brewers?

I don't know how to stop.

by esoteric on Jul 31, 2009 1:18 PM PDT reply actions  

Brewers

Then you have Seattle’s original MLB team and it’s current version

by lemonverbena on Jul 31, 2009 1:27 PM PDT up reply actions  

Second the Brewers

By rooting for them now you also have a team that is built very similar to how ours is being built.

Also, you’re living in Madison. That seems like a no brainer.

by Andersean on Jul 31, 2009 1:46 PM PDT up reply actions  

Hell yes, Brewers, and Madison is pretty awesome.

Although significantly more awesome if you’re in college.

---
http://www.beyondtheboxscore.com
http://www.rightfieldbleachers.com

by Jack Moore on Jul 31, 2009 1:49 PM PDT up reply actions  

In Zduriencik we trust

This is amazing, I cannot believe we have had to deal with so many GMs that had no idea what they were doing. And then this bald genius comes along and starts to heal our wounds in an amazing way.

Carlos Silvelite

by OceanBird on Jul 31, 2009 1:18 PM PDT reply actions  

Maybe it's because I've always liked the way Wash pitched

But I think I was one of the only people this off season defending Armstong’s nix last year (mostly on Baker’s blog, I hadn’t yet created an account here – too afraid of the relentless zingers, I guess).

I was expecting Z do make a move earlier in the year, to be honest, or in the off-season, and at the time Armstrong nixed the deal I really believed we were going to get a haul over the winter. Well, that obviously didn’t happen so I became very trepidatious about what Wash was going to do this season.

Honestly, today is one of the happiest days in a while. This return is great, and I am genuinely excited for Wash playing on the Tigers (I’ve always liked them in the central).

So, I guess this comment turned into me being masturbatory.

Point is, I’m happy with the trade and I feel a little vindicated for my previous Armstrong defenses.

by Andersean on Jul 31, 2009 1:33 PM PDT reply actions  

The thing that's interesting about Jack Z to me...

…from an outsider’s perspective is that he looks at that trade deadline so differently than we’ve grown accustomed to. The ESPN “ZOMG THE WORLD IS ENDING JERRY HAIRSTON JR GOT TRADED RIGHT AT THE DEADLINE” news reporting style has seemed to condition me/us/fans to this idea that you trade away players who good right now but won’t be helping you when your whole team is good and trade for veterans when your team is good to help put you into the playoffs/put your team over the top.

It’s interesting to me that he traded for players who will help the Mariners past this season…but will help then a lot sooner also. And the tradeoff he seemed to give up was not aiming for the big-name young guys so much as average players.

I’m a Rangers fan, but I enjoy watching what’s happening to your team.

by GhettoBear04 on Jul 31, 2009 1:37 PM PDT reply actions  

So just so I get this trade straight...

The 5’10" guy is the fireballer and the 6’4" guy is the crafty lefty? Odd.

by csiems on Jul 31, 2009 2:27 PM PDT reply actions  

I think what I like most about this trade

Is that now you have to find a picture instead of a flag the next time French pitches!
me <———— helper

~I'm on the DA~

by section331 on Jul 31, 2009 3:02 PM PDT reply actions  

Sorry if somebody posted this or it is obvious,

but are we paying Washburn’s salary the rest of this year? I sort of assumed that we were, but I do not believe I have read anything about money exchanging hands.

by Attractive Nuisance on Jul 31, 2009 3:11 PM PDT reply actions  

Herring feels Wash is the classic rental; that Detroit got him just so they didn't have to rely heavily on French & Porcello in the last months

and that they’ll have no interest in re-signing him, as next year they will have better, cheaper options for the rotation. He also thinks they are underestimating Robles, that as an organization they obsess about physically large pitchers to their own detriment

by msb on Jul 31, 2009 3:40 PM PDT up reply actions  

I'm staying in a hotel and was trying to find out deadline news on ESPN

All I got was 4 different, in depth stories on David Ortiz/Manny, Hairston Jr to the yanks, victor martinez to the Red Sox, and the Kotchman/La Roche trade

Then they did the bit on Washburn… not only did they not even mention the names of who we got, but they did nothing but praise Washburn and exclaim that this was a steal for Detroit….

In reality, as I texted my friend earlier, we basically just made Washburn 10 years younger, then gave him a 6 year extension while saving money in the process, and got another pitching prospect, just for the hell of it…

I know ESPN’s bias and incompetence is nothing new, but seriously, how hard would it have been to at least say one or two words about who Detroit was sending back, you know, just in case there were maybe one or two Mariner fans that were trying to watch ESPN for baseball news, or just baseball fans in general.

Luckily I found a wifi spot and I can actually find out for myself what we got in return… I didn’t realize by trying to find that out from ESPN I was asking too much of them.

…Sorry for beating a very dead horse here, but it was a little frustrating, especially when I was so anxious to find out the details of the trade.

Formerly Mariners124M... Username was sorta bland, so I'm changin it up

by BQueezy on Jul 31, 2009 3:41 PM PDT reply actions  

.
just in case there were maybe one or two Mariner fans that were trying to watch ESPN for baseball news

What? There are teams besides Boston, New York and Los Angeles?

/espn

by seattlesundevil on Jul 31, 2009 3:46 PM PDT up reply actions  

Washburn was covered extensively throughout the morning on ESPN.

Then the other dozen deals went down and ESPN covered them.

by Wilder. on Jul 31, 2009 3:50 PM PDT up reply actions  

I find it funny how befuddled most of MSM is

about how we can buy one day then turn around the next day and sell. At least Buck Showalter liked our moves.

FUCK THE ANGELS!

by Fuckmikereilly on Jul 31, 2009 3:51 PM PDT up reply actions  

In the video on the front page of ESPN.com, Deadline Winners

Buck Showalter calls the Mariners winners, albeit based partially on the ‘fact’ that they got a shortstop for the next 5 years…it was mentioned in another one of the articles written on the site as well. Did Jack Wilson sign a huge extension that I missed?

by Malcontent1 on Jul 31, 2009 4:19 PM PDT up reply actions  

Haven't you learned yet that there are only two teams in MLB according to ESPN?

Going to ESPN for non-Yankee/Sox news is a fool’s errand. There’s no point in trying to get in-depth news from them.

Nice Guys Finish Third - My semantics are a waste of time.

by pdb on Jul 31, 2009 3:45 PM PDT reply actions  

This is overblown.

ESPN will predispose programming time to teams in big markets, yes, but also to teams that are winning (hey, Boston and NY are in pennant races every year) and have more rabid fans. You want to know why other cities do not get more air time? Here’s a big reason

Because that’s where people are still caring about baseball.

by Matthew on Jul 31, 2009 4:02 PM PDT up reply actions  

Did any team making the playoffs last year get as much coverage as the Yankees missing the playoffs?

Even during the Rays amazing run, it wasn’t about how good the Rays are doing, it was about how bad the Yankees are doing.

by Kenny Knows Sports on Jul 31, 2009 4:05 PM PDT up reply actions  

This just isn't true.

ESPN were all over the Rays’ jock last season.

by Aaron Campeau on Jul 31, 2009 4:06 PM PDT up reply actions  

Okay, I trust you. It's just more to the point of - every time the Yankees start out the season and struggle a bit, it's front news on Sportscenter.

Like last season with constant Joba-talk. Constant. Constant. Joba-talk.

I can’t speak for this season as I don’t have ESPN.

But I’ll admit none of this needs to be established, as it already has been many times.

by Kenny Knows Sports on Jul 31, 2009 4:53 PM PDT up reply actions  

They talked about the Rays all the time.

Not to mention that the Yankees were still a good team, still play in New York and them missing the playoffs was a big story regardless.

by Matthew on Jul 31, 2009 4:09 PM PDT up reply actions  

I will ponder the question though Matthew, couldn't there be some sort of question about cause and effect in terms of caring about baseball in the northeast and the northeast getting all the ESPN coverage?

Chicken and Egg type deal.

Of course Yankee success goes way back in time before ESPN, but if the Yankees got equal coverage today as any good team does (Say, the Yankees get no more coverage than any other playoff contending team) would the interest even out over time?

This would be a lot easier to consider also, if the Red Sox and Yankees didn’t constantly pick up the best players available.

by Kenny Knows Sports on Jul 31, 2009 4:56 PM PDT up reply actions  

No because the Yankees are their own media/hype machine as well.

See: The YES Network.

New York does not rely on ESPN to build awareness of the Yankees.

by Matthew on Jul 31, 2009 5:07 PM PDT up reply actions  

I agree. Also though, there's a reason kids on the west coast and south grow up loving the Yankees and Red Sox.

See: LeBron James

Its not JUST ESPN of course, it’s also history of being a winner, but ESPN has some iota to do with Yankee awareness.

by Kenny Knows Sports on Jul 31, 2009 5:18 PM PDT up reply actions  

Wow, that's awesome that Wisconsin is so into baseball right now.

That Sabathia trade is still paying off in Milwaukee right now.

---
http://www.beyondtheboxscore.com
http://www.rightfieldbleachers.com

by Jack Moore on Jul 31, 2009 4:49 PM PDT up reply actions  

I was just catching up on Baker, and allowed myself to get sucked into the comments.

Boy, wonder what you have to do to get at least 3 of your comments removed.

by msb on Jul 31, 2009 3:54 PM PDT reply actions  

Baker
Washburn said he was pleased he finally offered the team something closer to what it expected with he signed his deal back in 2005.

FUCK THE ANGELS! FUCK THE ANGELS! FUCK THE ANGELS!

by Goose on Jul 31, 2009 3:56 PM PDT reply actions  

For what purpose?

Summarize for those who can’t listen?

FUCK THE ANGELS!

by Fuckmikereilly on Jul 31, 2009 4:10 PM PDT up reply actions  

Feh.

Pittman implied it was going to be a conversation; it turned out to be just his reaction to the last few days, which you can actually read plus more on Drayer’s blog

by msb on Jul 31, 2009 4:14 PM PDT up reply actions  

Great quote:
The fact that we got Mauricio Robles as well just takes this from good trade to beer-at-12-on-a-Friday worthy.

Great great stuff. I feel like I’m dreaming. Every time I set myself up for Z to make a stupid move, extend an old player like Washburn or something, and I’m ready to just say fuck it all, he renews my faith 1000x over.

I love the Seattle Mariners from the bottom to the top. If you told me I would be saying what I just said a year ago, I would slap you for being so stupid.

by Zwakamatsu on Jul 31, 2009 4:43 PM PDT reply actions  

Detecto isn't impressed by French at all.

Sorry guys.
(I would link you, but I promise that I’m doing you a favor by not.)

by katal on Jul 31, 2009 5:10 PM PDT reply actions  

That's fair.

The English language is not impressed by Detecto.

...and now I'm here

by CapSea on Jul 31, 2009 7:12 PM PDT up reply actions  

As an A's fan, I've been blessed with Beane at the helm for the last decade.

After giggling at the stupidity that was Bavasi, I am absolutely floored at how quickly Z has turned the Mariners organization around. Last year you lost the second most games in baseball, this year you’re over .500 with no major acquisitions. That’s scary, and I think with the talent that Oakland and Texas has, combined with Z’s plan for Seattle… Let’s just say the AL West is going to be a very competitive division. It’s NOT going to be a cakewalk like I hoped it might. Living in the northwest gives me Mariners sympathy to boot, so I hope Z pulls it off.

Cheers.

"I feel like we are sending Danny Haren for Mulder all over again." - Cardinal fan on the Matt Holliday trade

"But at this time of year, two plus two doesn't always add up to eight. Sometimes, it equals four." - Geoff Baker, Mariners beat writer.

by Orodawg on Jul 31, 2009 6:02 PM PDT reply actions  

In your face.

The Yankees suck-a-doodle-doo!

by JamMasterJesus on Jul 31, 2009 7:03 PM PDT up reply actions  

Well...

None that involved players that ESPN analysts have man-crushes on.

I would say that Zduriencik’s strength has been making what look like relatively minor transactions pay off like major ones (Gutierrez, Branyan, Aardsma), all while mitigating the repercussions of the flops (Cedeno, Olson).

I wouldn’t be at all surprised if we see some pleasant surprises from the most recent acquisitions.

by Adam B on Aug 1, 2009 12:09 AM PDT up reply actions  

I think I know what he means and I think it's a huge compliment.

On the face of it, Branyan, Gutierrez, Aardsma, Endy, Vargas Langerhans, Wilson, etc seem fairly minor, don’t make a big splash etc. The point (I am assuming) is that we did not go all out for big names/contracts in pursuit of mediocrity.

by Aaron Campeau on Aug 1, 2009 12:12 AM PDT up reply actions  

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