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Around SBN: Fighters React to Nick Diaz's Positive Drug Test

Ortiz & Manny

Wbc_029_tiny by Jeff Sullivan on

Here you go, baby birds. Go to town.

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Shocking.

Oh… wait… no it’s not.

by seattlesundevil on Jul 30, 2009 9:45 AM PDT reply actions  

This is the extent of what is written at ESPN:
Manny Ramirez and David Ortiz tested positive for performance-enhancing drugs in 2003, lawyers with knowledge of the results told The New York Times.

The two were key members of the Boston Red Sox World Series teams in 2004 and 2007.

Hmm… very nicely detailed, ESPN. Go apeshit about A-Rod and Manny having tested positive, but when Ortiz is involved, keep things minimal.

by Wilder. on Jul 30, 2009 9:52 AM PDT reply actions  

Do people really still care?

Everyone was on steroids, we get it. I think at this point most of the outrage is media-generated for a story.

angels fan in seattle

by Eyebrows on Jul 30, 2009 9:55 AM PDT reply actions  

Pretty much where I'm at.

The union has every right to be pissed, and that list should have been destroyed, but I’d rather see an avalanche of names than this one-name-a-month bullshit.

by Teej on Jul 30, 2009 10:24 AM PDT up reply actions  

It's the MLBPA's fault the list wasn't destroyed in the first place

They were keeping it to fight the fact that the players made the list in the first place to see if they could get below the 5% (or whatever) threshold and avoid serious testing.

by CMC_Stags on Jul 30, 2009 10:50 AM PDT up reply actions  

I'd like that too, seriously though, how is this all working?

Are they doing this on purpose? Are people sneaking into the bosses office where the steroid list is held and they only have a couple of seconds to check it before they get caught? The fact that one or two names are released at a time every few months just sounds like absolute BS.

by Kenny Knows Sports on Jul 30, 2009 10:27 AM PDT up reply actions  

....

There’s still a bunch of stupid fans who think their favorite player hasn’t done steroids. People still think Frank White and Jim Thome haven’t taken them.

by Toxicadam on Jul 30, 2009 1:11 PM PDT up reply actions  

Fr...Frank White?

Noooooo! He was pretty durable, I suppose.

by marc w on Jul 30, 2009 1:18 PM PDT up reply actions  

Frank White is one of the top 5 players in the game and he has been ever since he came into the league.

I remember the day Frank White tossed a 13-inning perfect game and hit the winning grand slam over the Los Angeles Raptors.

Hey look, it’s raining donuts.

by Kenny Knows Sports on Jul 30, 2009 1:23 PM PDT up reply actions  

Again I ask, without snark or malice

why do you still care? I am genuinely curious.

Nice Guys Finish Third - My semantics are a waste of time.

by pdb on Jul 30, 2009 3:34 PM PDT up reply actions  

It doesn't surprise me at all

And Ortiz is supposed to be one of the poster children for the clean guys

by Poochie on Jul 30, 2009 9:59 AM PDT up reply actions  

.
“If I test positive by using any kind of banned substance, I’m going to disrespect my family, the game, the fans and everybody,” Ortiz said. “And I don’t want to be put in that situation. So what I will do, I won’t use it. I’m pretty sure everybody is on the same page.”

more

by Poochie on Jul 30, 2009 10:04 AM PDT up reply actions  

Ugh, why would you say that?

You just make yourself look like a jackass when they find out.

F*** Billy Beane... actually, I kinda like Holliday

by vivaelpujols on Jul 30, 2009 10:09 AM PDT up reply actions  

Says him.
Ortiz said that he believes players are clean because testing is quite invasive, and if they test positive now, they should be thrown out of the game for the rest of the year. He said that players and whole teams should be tested “three or four times a year, that’s it” which he thinks would give a good reading on who is or who isn’t on steroids.

“I think you clean up the game by the testing. I test you, you test positive, you’re going to be out. Period,” Ortiz said. “If I test positive using any kind of banned substance I’m going to disrespect the game, my family, my fans and everybody. And I don’t want to face the situation so I won’t use it. I’m sure everybody is on the same page.”

MLB Fanhouse

angels fan in seattle

by Eyebrows on Jul 30, 2009 10:05 AM PDT up reply actions  

I don't think anybody's infallible

he’s just been held up as the latest Poster Boy For Playing The Game The Right Way for some reason.

Nice Guys Finish Third - My semantics are a waste of time.

by pdb on Jul 30, 2009 10:06 AM PDT up reply actions  

Yep

Nice Guys Finish Third - My semantics are a waste of time.

by pdb on Jul 30, 2009 10:25 AM PDT up reply actions  

Ortiz was just as emphatic as Pujols. I don't believe Pujols' denials..

And there was a CNN/SI story some years back, linking Pujols’ former trainer with steroids.

by Sam Regens on Aug 1, 2009 4:43 AM PDT up reply actions  

Ehhh

Whatever Pujols is doing, and I’m sure he’s doing something I doubt it’s as old school and detectable as anabolic steroids. Maybe he’s into some new shit, but whatever it is it probably isn’t scheduled yet.

De Gutibus non disputandum est

by Bearskin Rugburn on Jul 30, 2009 10:08 AM PDT up reply actions  

I would

His performance has been consistent as hell every year, and he can’t be doing steroids now right?

F*** Billy Beane... actually, I kinda like Holliday

by vivaelpujols on Jul 30, 2009 10:10 AM PDT up reply actions  

He only needed to do it at one point in his career.

Then maintain what he gained the rest of his career.

...and now I'm here

by CapSea on Jul 30, 2009 1:11 PM PDT up reply actions  

Agree with this completely. Now that A-Rod, Manny, and Ortiz are busted, Pujols should be next.

But the media is building him up as MLB’s golden boy. Jeez how blind can you get?

by Sam Regens on Aug 1, 2009 4:47 AM PDT up reply actions  

I think Frank Thomas, Edgar, maybe Buhner would surprise me too.

And I half agree with your point up there. I do care, but I don’t care about the speculating. Release the lists, do the testing, and let everyone know so it can be done with.

...and now I'm here

by CapSea on Jul 30, 2009 1:10 PM PDT up reply actions  

I am shocked. shocked! that major league baseball players would use performance enhancing drugs!

Seriously though, I don’t care at this point. However, I really do hope that in five years time we’re not going to be seeing headlines like, “Popular Player X Tested Positive for Steroids in 2009”

by manyoso on Jul 30, 2009 9:58 AM PDT reply actions  

Samsies

But this gives us a chance to mock Red Sox fans so it is a special occasion

by Robert on Jul 30, 2009 10:01 AM PDT up reply actions  

Dustin Pedroia getting caught with roids would be the greatest thing ever.

Is that the light at the end of the tunnel, or the headlights of an oncoming train?

by Benne on Jul 30, 2009 6:16 PM PDT up reply actions  

OMG ARE YOU SAYING RIPKEN WAS ON STEROIDS THAT'S AMAZING

YOU READ IT HERE FIRST – IRON MAN WAS ON THE JUICE

Nice Guys Finish Third - My semantics are a waste of time.

by pdb on Jul 30, 2009 10:04 AM PDT up reply actions  

You people seem to have a deficient understanding of human nature and the nature of crowds.

It’s really rather stunning, your naivete.

The day it is found out that Ripken was on roids is the day the fans come together and metaphorically burn baseball to the ground. That’s the day we go to Olympic-style testing regimes and lifetime bans for positives. If you think otherwise, you’re crazy.

I don't know how to stop.

by esoteric on Jul 30, 2009 3:15 PM PDT up reply actions  

Is this really necessary?
You people seem to have a deficient understanding of human nature and the nature of crowds.

It’s really rather stunning, your naivete.

That’s a pretty insulting statement that is based on a pretty massive assumption on your part that I don’t find to be the least bit fair.

by Aaron Campeau on Jul 30, 2009 3:22 PM PDT up reply actions  

No it's not

Since the media is driving the whole thing (and if you don’t think so, you have a rather deficient understanding of the situation and are displaying some quite extraordinarily stunning naivete), if a golden boy of theirs gets caught they’ll shut the hell up and nobody would care anymore.

by Graham MacAree on Jul 30, 2009 3:24 PM PDT up reply actions  

I honestly don't think this is true. Look at the way the Boston press is rounding on Ortiz right now.

I think the media would behave even more furiously if Ripken were confirmed as a user: the ultimate ‘betrayal’, if you will. Note my assessment of how the media in general would react stands independently of my views on how they should act or how I feel about the whole PED issue. I think we can both agree that self-righteousness is one thing that is never in short supply with the media…and I think it would whip up to toxic levels after someone like Ripken were fingered.

I don't know how to stop.

by esoteric on Jul 30, 2009 4:20 PM PDT up reply actions  

You couldn't possibly be more wrong.

The sport hasn’t suffered in the least from this whole scandal. Fans don’t care. Fans love to pretend that they care, but people voice their opinions with money, and the game’s doing fine.

by Jeff Sullivan on Jul 30, 2009 3:25 PM PDT up reply actions  

I must disagree most vehemently, sir

The gentlemen is the very font of all knowledge regarding human nature and therefore his tone seemed more than appropriate.

by Graham MacAree on Jul 30, 2009 3:32 PM PDT up reply actions  

At least one person understands me here.

Seriously though, apologies for the tone. It was uncalled for, and maybe it says something that I didn’t even realize it was a problem until it was pointed out to me.

I recognize that I’m in a minority on LL on this matter.

I don't know how to stop.

by esoteric on Jul 30, 2009 4:17 PM PDT up reply actions  

I think it's they remake the movie fever pitch.

Racer X. You have to love those amarillo hops.

p.s. fuck you angels

p.p.s. geoff baker is an idiot

by InSpokane on Jul 30, 2009 10:05 AM PDT reply actions  

I like in Oakland

Racer X. You have to love those amarillo hops.

p.s. fuck you angels

p.p.s. geoff baker is an idiot

by InSpokane on Jul 30, 2009 10:07 AM PDT up reply actions  

fuck me. I need to shut up this morning.

Racer X. You have to love those amarillo hops.

p.s. fuck you angels

p.p.s. geoff baker is an idiot

by InSpokane on Jul 30, 2009 10:08 AM PDT up reply actions  

You dip shit I think you mean

It’s time they remake that awful movie.

Racer X. You have to love those amarillo hops.

p.s. fuck you angels

p.p.s. geoff baker is an idiot

by InSpokane on Jul 30, 2009 10:07 AM PDT up reply actions  

They already remade it into an awful movie from a perfectly charming original

I don’t need to see it again in a different form.

Nice Guys Finish Third - My semantics are a waste of time.

by pdb on Jul 30, 2009 10:08 AM PDT up reply actions  

I think the real loser in all this steroid mess is Griffey

and all the other idiots that that didn’t use them.

De Gutibus non disputandum est

by Bearskin Rugburn on Jul 30, 2009 10:05 AM PDT reply actions  

But they're idiots.

They deserve it.

I like using semi-colons; they make me feel smart.

by Llewdor on Jul 30, 2009 10:41 AM PDT up reply actions  

Well yeah it'd be like competitive swimmers who don't wear the fancy new swimsuits

because they’re too pure. There’s technology out there, everybody is using it to their advantage, and not doing it doesn’t win you extra points. On the plus side, you get the moral highground. O the minus side, no one knows who you are because you can’t keep up with the big boys.

De Gutibus non disputandum est

by Bearskin Rugburn on Jul 30, 2009 12:30 PM PDT up reply actions  

That has yet to be determined

but my instincts tell me those suits don’t leave your manhood entirely intact

De Gutibus non disputandum est

by Bearskin Rugburn on Jul 30, 2009 1:54 PM PDT up reply actions  

My manhood is fine.

I wear a high tech suit at some meets.

beggingmusicians.blogspot.com.
My music blog.

by Kirk on Aug 3, 2009 12:44 AM PDT via mobile up reply actions  

I just don't like steroids

I don’t mind the cheating, but something about injecting yourself with weird shit disgusts me.

Also, it’s pretty cool to be a Cardinals fan because whenever someone says their team is better or whatever, you can just say “we have Pujols”. If he did steroids, you can’t really say that anymore because his performance “wasn’t clean” or whatever.

F*** Billy Beane... actually, I kinda like Holliday

by vivaelpujols on Jul 30, 2009 10:13 AM PDT up reply actions  

Not really

everyone else is on them. At this point taking them is just leveling the playing field.

De Gutibus non disputandum est

by Bearskin Rugburn on Jul 30, 2009 12:32 PM PDT up reply actions  

One player whose name I hope never shows up in connection with roids

is Randy Johnson’s. I want to believe he was just naturally awesome.

The rest of these guys are cocks though.

[DELETED ZOMG NO POLITICS]

by bluemax on Jul 30, 2009 10:09 AM PDT reply actions  

Naturally?

When you can get an unfair advantage from the Bodyblade® ???

by msb on Jul 30, 2009 10:19 AM PDT up reply actions  

Earlier this year during his "slump" didn't Ortiz get "randomly" tested 3 times.

And I believe 3 is the maximum number of tests they can do in a year. Oh hey and he’s coming out of his slump now.

Fuck the Angels!

by JMKaustin on Jul 30, 2009 10:13 AM PDT reply actions  

Steroids don't work like that

it’s not like a video game powerup. It takes time for them to take effect.

De Gutibus non disputandum est

by Bearskin Rugburn on Jul 30, 2009 12:33 PM PDT up reply actions  

Time and a ton of weight lifting.

I never really liked the old tagline.

CougCenter

by Craig Powers on Jul 30, 2009 1:37 PM PDT up reply actions  

I'm with the rest of you.

This gets a big ole meh from me.

FUCK THE ANGELS! FUCK THE ANGELS! FUCK THE ANGELS!

by Goose on Jul 30, 2009 10:50 AM PDT reply actions  

The biggest effect this has for me is to improve my opinion of Bonds.

It makes 73 homers seem more legit if “everyone” was doing PEDs.

by PDXTai on Jul 30, 2009 11:18 AM PDT reply actions  

But not the 762.

How many HRs would Bonds have hit if his body broke down like a normal human being’s? How many would Griffey have hit if he fully recovered from his injuries in 4-6 weeks as opposed to 4-6 months?

by sammy on Jul 30, 2009 12:05 PM PDT up reply actions  

Well, fuck the Red Sox and fuck Ortiz.

However I just don’t care, I’ll still be watching baseball and following the M’s 24/7.

by MFAN on Jul 30, 2009 11:43 AM PDT reply actions  

Football player tests positive: Little article on page 5 that is forgotten by the next day

Baseball player tests positive: Massive headline. The end of the world in fact.

Anybody even remember Terry Bradshaw admitting to using steroids to “speed healing”? There were no apoplectic calls to remove him from the hall of fame. It was barely even a story.

Imagine if say, Joe Morgan admitted to juicing back in the 70’s. OMG!!!!!!!!

This is my gripe with the whole thing. Otherwise I just don’t care. I wish they’d just release the whole list and be done with it..
It is a nice barb to throw at irritating Red Sox fans. I guess there’s that.

"If I'm in a slump, I ask myself for advice." -Ichiro

by Big Jared on Jul 30, 2009 12:36 PM PDT reply actions  

The difference is baseball's obsession with records.

(Which I couldn’t give less of a shit about, so steroids have never really bothered me.)

by Teej on Jul 30, 2009 12:39 PM PDT up reply actions  

And not only an obsession with records, but an overall obsession with numbers.

I think it has more to do with the fact that in football, there are only 16 games and it feels like every one of them matters. So winning is the most important thing.

Winning is also important in baseball but over 162 games, you’re bound to lose 60 of them even if you’re the best team in the league. So we have other things to focus on, i.e. a players statistics.

Mark McGwire and Sammy Sosa were heroes in 1998 even though neither of them made the World Series. In fact, more people could tell you who hit over 60 homers that year than who actually won the World Series and against whom they did it.

In football you’re only as good as the next yard you gain. I think in baseball if you hit two homers and lose you still feel like you had a good day, there’s still 161 other games. In football if you rush for 150 yards and lose, you don’t feel good about it. You should’ve rushed for 180 yards. Or you should’ve made that extra tackle.

So statistics in baseball become more important than in football. Tom Brady was more revered in his first Super Bowl season with decent numbers than he was two season ago with record numbers and a Super Bowl loss.

Still, this doesn’t answer the question completely as to why we don’t care about steroids in football, except when you look at the fact that we can’t measure a players contribution to a win through statistics in football. Because it is such a team sport, we can’t quantify Shawne Merriman’s affect on winning or losing. However, in baseball it’s much easier to see that player A put up 45 home runs and if player A was using steroids we assume he would not have hit as many home runs and therefore if we assume he loses power, average, speed, and health, that the team he was on would not have won as many games. Especially if player A was Manny Ramirez and he had a buddy named David Ortiz that was player B.

It’s also because nobody in this world has an obsession with anything as much as ESPN has an obsession with the Boston Red Sox and the New York Yankees. Not even the chick that stabbed Selena.

by Kenny Knows Sports on Jul 30, 2009 1:18 PM PDT up reply actions  

I think football players shooting somebody,

getting shot themselves by other people, and shooting themselves accidentally, is the best stat in all of football.

Mike Napoli speaks softly and carries a big stick.

by 44FAN on Jul 30, 2009 2:10 PM PDT up reply actions  

Records obsessives. They survived the hurdle of 162 games seasons, the great meltdown of adding a third division

Hopefully they’ll survive the steroids era, despite the lamenting and dusting of heads with ashes.

by Kermit. on Jul 30, 2009 1:38 PM PDT up reply actions  

I'm waiting the racist angle, of why white athletes reap greater benefits

Through social connections/economics/blah blah blah. There has to be a story in there someplace, it really does have to be my fault and I should feel guilty for being complicit by not demanding change.

by Kermit. on Jul 30, 2009 1:43 PM PDT up reply actions  

NYY fans still have the same indignation for Clemens and Petitte.

There are a couple people at my work that still believe Clemens and think he’ll be vindicated in the end. My response: So will OJ.

It's hard to convince people to let you eat them if you're an asshole. - Thingray

by Faux on Jul 31, 2009 11:09 AM PDT up reply actions  

Nice article. It had to be said.

Can’t stand the Yankees either, though.
(And the farking Angels also).

by Sam Regens on Aug 1, 2009 4:51 AM PDT up reply actions  

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