The Latest On Jarrod Washburn
by Jeff Sullivan on Jul 29, 2009 9:23 PM PDT
in Seattle Mariners Transactions
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PrintTake this for what it's worth, but according to Buster Olney:
ESPN The Magazine's Buster Olney tells us the Mariners plan to keep Jarrod Washburn through the trade deadline and hope to persuade him to sign some sort of extension. Olney says the team is hoping to come to some kind of understanding with the lefty, who has taken off under the tutelage of pitching coach Rick Adair. When teams call, however, Seattle will listen. Olney says most rival execs feel the M's are content to hang onto Washburn.
The Yankees and Brewers are both rumored to be looking at Washburn.
Personally, I still think Jarrod will get dealt, and that this is just a bit of posturing or misinformation. However, with the Phillies already having landed a starter and the Brewers looking at playoff odds only slightly better than ours, one has no choice but to consider the possibility that Washburn remains a Mariner beyond the trade deadline. There's been no indication that Jarrod's been aggressively shopped, and though the new front office is pretty tight-lipped about that sort of thing, you'd think it would've eventually gotten out. All we've heard is that Washburn is available, and that's not news.
That bit about "some kind of understanding" is interesting. Makes you wonder if the M's would like to engineer an agreement by which they elect to offer Washburn arbitration and Washburn elects to decline. But that's just blind speculation. The extension suggestion is more noteworthy, and as you can imagine, I'm not a big fan of that idea. Now don't get me wrong, Jarrod has his value both on and off the field, and he seems like the sort of guy who'd be content to take a smaller offer to stay where he is, but he's not a special pitcher, and as Dave already outlined, we don't have a whole lot of space in the 2010 budget. Giving a chunk of what money remains to Jarrod Washburn would seem to be a poor allocation of resources.
But because it's just Olney, I won't bother going into greater detail. Basically, the take-home message is this: though there's still a good probability that Jarrod Washburn will be moved before the deadline, there are indications that he could stay put, at which point the Mariners would either (A) try to move him in August, (B) try to sign him to an extension, (C) try to work out some sort of arbitration agreement, or (D) go ahead and lose him for nothing. It's precisely because of point D that I think he'll be traded, but who knows. Zduriencik has surprised me before.
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Grrrrrrrr... Trade him already!
You got slurved!
The M's are why the suicide rates are so high in the PNW and Japan.
Keep in mind...
This is the same organization that is completely infatuated with Rob Johnson. Now, Robby’s shown that he’s got the ability to become more of an asset than a liability, but that line is really, really thin with him.
This signature space for rent.
Oh god
This sucks, so bad. Olney better have it wrong, because if we keep him, ugh.
Carlos Silvelite
Goddamnit.
6 months ago we would of been thrilled just to see him go away. THAT SHOULD NOT HAVE CHANGED!
FUCK THE ANGELS! FUCK THE ANGELS! FUCK THE ANGELS!
They're not out of it
they’re just long shots, and long shots generally don’t like to trade talent for two-month rentals.
by Jeff Sullivan on Jul 29, 2009 9:37 PM PDT up reply actions
At this point do we really care if we get talent back?
I’d take a single A “He might be good someday” kinda guy.
by Kenny Knows Sports on Jul 29, 2009 10:04 PM PDT up reply actions
Not when they have such a tight payroll they don't
De Gutibus non disputandum est
by Bearskin Rugburn on Jul 29, 2009 10:07 PM PDT up reply actions
Reading that line just triggered a Perez/Broussard flashback.
That debacle has never generated nearly generate as much anger as it deserves.
by discovolante on Jul 30, 2009 12:12 AM PDT up reply actions
Understanding with a Boras client?
Seriously, there’s no chance of an arbitration deal at all. That’s nuts. His agent knows that his bartering position is worse with the M’s than it is as a free agent. He’s going to get paid well, so there’s no reason to think this way.
I think it is worth something for the M’s to be talking this way, but all the posturing and dick measuring that goes on in these talks gets excessive. Wash’s stock is very high right now and I think the best way to create a market for him is to talk about all the offers your’re getting.
The way that I see it playing out
Boras: Shiny ERA
Mariner’s Front Office: (Peripherals and sabermetric data showing that Washburn’s ERA was a product of the defense behind him)
Boras: Yes but Shiny ERA
Then Washburn goes and signs a 5year/60 million dollar deal with the Phillies.
But he has rediscovered himself and go on like Jamie Moyer has!
You got slurved!
The M's are why the suicide rates are so high in the PNW and Japan.
I think it is important to realize a few things;
A) The front office views certain things much differently than the vast majority of LL’s community does.
B) We will not always agree (and we are likely to vehemently disagree on occasion) with the moves Zduriencik makes.
C) The overall plan does not appear to have deviated from the path most of us were so happy with not so long ago.
D) We are still lucky to have this front office.
E) That doesn’t mean we shouldn’t point out mistakes we feel they have made.
by Aaron Campeau on Jul 29, 2009 9:44 PM PDT reply actions 6 recs
This is considerably annoying, though - One that should deserves to be yelled about.
Once again, as with any potential free agent, if you want him so badly you can sign him again once he’s a free agent. There is absolutely zero reason not to trade him if they are offered anything of value. None. Perhaps they are not offered anything of value, and that’s fine, but if people are after him I’m going to assume they were, and I will still be incredibly pissed off if he is not dealt and I think that anger is earned.
But yes, these points are all true.
...and now I'm here
This is not a good thing.
Jack Z is fortunate to have a player who is unexpectedly one of the most valuable pieces currently on the trade market. Not to trade him would just be silly.
by I Lick Squirrels on Jul 29, 2009 9:47 PM PDT reply actions
Not as silly as licking squirrels.
But really now he’s a 35 pitcher whose skill set we can replace (A flyballing lefty who strikesout an average amount of batters.)
You got slurved!
The M's are why the suicide rates are so high in the PNW and Japan.
by Slurvey on Jul 29, 2009 9:49 PM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
We can also replace him with a much, much cheaper player.
I feel this is the most important part. We still have holes to fill this offseason. I would like to be able to at least make a competitive offer to Beltre. Not trading Wash would just be bad news all around.
FUCK THE ANGELS!
by Fuckmikereilly on Jul 29, 2009 9:52 PM PDT up reply actions
You don't know if he is one of the most valuable pieces on the trade market.
That’s important to note, we do not know, and will not know, what offers Z has received for Washburn.
by Matthew on Jul 30, 2009 12:52 AM PDT up reply actions 3 recs
That is my thought ...
especially after no one was willing to Bedard-it for Halladay, and after Lee went to the Phillies for what appears to be quantity over quality
My stance on Washburn
- Keeping him for the rest of the season doesn’t bother me.
It’s only two months. If we’re not getting much back for Washburn I can understand us holding on to him. It’s not the same thing as passing up the opportunity to unload 1 1/2 more years of Washburn. Even if he regresses sometime in the next two months whooptydo. If he were enough to land a quality young shortstop we would’ve done it by now. Of course if we found that Zduriencik turned down a solid deal, that would suck.
- Attempting to sign him for an extension does….sort of.
Depends on the conditions. If they’re trying to get Washburn for one year on a budget I can probably roll with that. I jut don’t like this talk about a “long-term” deal. We already fell for that once. I can’t believe there’s a contingent of people who seriously want to keep him for a few more years. We signed Washburn to a 4-year deal because his ERA was shiny and he was “good” at stranding base runners. I mean really. Given how RRS did today, I’m pretty sure we can survive without Washburn. And hey, maybe Ian Snell will be useful.
I think Snell will be more than useful.
At this point, we have no need for Jarrod Washburn.
by Kenny Knows Sports on Jul 29, 2009 10:07 PM PDT up reply actions
Oh Olney...
Indians said as recently as two days ago that they have to see an offer that gives them a monumental boner before they deal Lee, and look at what they pulled the trigger on.
There’s just no need to pay to keep Washburn around when money’s tight, Felix is unsigned, and Vargas and RRS are hanging out for a fraction of the cost. I know that, you know that, and Zduriencik must know it too. Probably publishing this kind of stuff is what gets you the scoops…
De Gutibus non disputandum est
by Bearskin Rugburn on Jul 29, 2009 10:05 PM PDT reply actions
Forgot about the draft pick actually
if whatever was on the table for Washburn was worth less than a sandwich pick, then they’re doing the right thing.
De Gutibus non disputandum est
by Bearskin Rugburn on Jul 29, 2009 10:13 PM PDT reply actions
I don't see why Washburn/Boras would accept it.
He can get a 3-year contract on the market.
by Kenny Knows Sports on Jul 29, 2009 10:22 PM PDT up reply actions
Offering Washburn arbitration would be insane
Insane.
He’d take a $10 million previous salary and a career year in the numbers that matter to the panel and ask for $15 million, maybe more. The least the M’s could offer and have any chance of winning would be $12 or $13 million. To avoid a hearing, you’re looking at a ~$14 million salary for 2010.
He won’t get half that in annual salary as a free agent. Teams are getting smarter, and the people who want to pony up cash for free agent pitchers will go after Lackey. He’s going to have to fight guys like Joel Pineiro and Jason Marquis – younger pitchers with better fastballs – for the cash-in-on-a-career-year contract. As a 35-year-old free agent, he’d have to settle for something like 3/21, and faced with that, accepting arbitration is a no-brainer.
by davidcameron on Jul 29, 2009 10:21 PM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
Maybe this is the agreement being hinted at by Olney... otherwise what's the secrecy?
But whatever. I’m pretty convinced he’s getting dealt and Zduriencik is just playing the waiting game, which is what he should be doing. It’s a seller’s market out there, Lee deal notwithstanding.
De Gutibus non disputandum est
by Bearskin Rugburn on Jul 29, 2009 10:30 PM PDT up reply actions
Two more months with Throb Johnson?
fuck if I know. I’m just trying ot make sense of a smart FO doing things that don’t seem smart.
De Gutibus non disputandum est
by Bearskin Rugburn on Jul 29, 2009 11:14 PM PDT up reply actions
Deal Him Already
Its not that he is THAT bad of a pitcher. If he had 3 to 4 runs in all of his starts he would have a lot more wins for the M’s than he does but he is just too damn expensive to keep. The M’s are rebuilding and we need prospects that we can sign cheap and bring along in the next couple of years.
The M's overplayed their hand
Honestly, right now, there is one team that Washburn makes sense for – Minnesota. They have the need (especially with Slowey out for the year), we know they value him (see last year), and a legitimate reason to give up value for a rental (33% shot at the playoffs, Mauer’s impending free agency in 2010). The problem, though, is that for all the talk about how Washburn is a hot commodity, he’s not really.
He was everyone’s backup plan. The Phillies were interested if they couldn’t get Halladay or Lee. The Dodgers were interested if anyone pulled within shouting distance of them. The Brewers were interested when they were in the race. All those situations no longer hold true.
The Yankees are kind of interested, but he’s not a good fit for their park and they know it. It’s basically up to Minnesota – they need to make a strong enough offer to make Jack say yes, or we probably keep him.
Obviously, I’m a fan of the new front office, but the passive approach they’ve taken to the Washburn/Bedard situations has been a bit annoying. They could have moved them both for decent value two months ago. They could have moved Washburn for a solid package a week ago. Now? They’re stuck waiting for one team to decide whether he’s worth much to them or not.
This wasn’t handled as well as it should have been.
by davidcameron on Jul 29, 2009 10:16 PM PDT reply actions 1 recs
I know he's probably been one of the worst players in baseball for awhile now.
But Delmon Young? If I had a choice between having Washburn or having Young, I think he’s worth taking a chance on.
by Kenny Knows Sports on Jul 29, 2009 10:21 PM PDT up reply actions
This team already has a ton of corner outfielders and Delmon Young is pretty awful.
I’m all for trading Washburn, but I’d honestly rather have some random A ball pitching prospect, Delmon Young is just bad.
Im just trying to think of players the Twins would actually give up for Washburn.
I’d rather have a prospect too, but I’m just saying if that was the only realistic offer on the table, I’d do it. He doesn’t really fit on the roster, but its high risk/high reward and if he ever actually did reach even half of the potential he once had, he’d be pretty good.
by Kenny Knows Sports on Jul 29, 2009 10:29 PM PDT up reply actions
There just isn't anywhere for him to play.
Honestly, I’d rather have Washburn in 2010 than Delmon Young, there comes a point when the potential is gone and the player just isn’t very good, I think Young is at that point.
I would much rather have Young
because he’d be much cheaper.
FUCK THE ANGELS!
by Fuckmikereilly on Jul 29, 2009 10:41 PM PDT up reply actions
If we have Jarrod Washburn in 2010... well, that's just a horrible thing to think about.
Delmon Young is 24 years old I believe. There’s some great prospects in the minors who are older than Delmon Young. Sometimes a change of scenery can turn a career around. He was off to a good start in Tampa and then has been horrible in Minnesota. Considering he how great of a prospect he was, I think he could get special status as a “David Ortiz, he might still breakout one day” kind of player.
Where would he play him? Figure it out later. But if it’s either keeping Washburn or having Delmon Young, I’m taking Young. Of course, this is too long to speculate over something I made up.
by Kenny Knows Sports on Jul 29, 2009 10:48 PM PDT up reply actions
Not to be a dick but you probably haven't heard of him.
Neither have I. That’s why Zduriencik and Co make the dollars.
by Aaron Campeau on Jul 30, 2009 12:40 AM PDT up reply actions
What about the White Sox?
Colon just went down today.
FUCK THE ANGELS!
by Fuckmikereilly on Jul 29, 2009 10:28 PM PDT up reply actions
Clayton Richard
Moves right back into the rotation. They don’t need him.
by davidcameron on Jul 29, 2009 10:34 PM PDT up reply actions
Jarrod Washburn, Michael Saunders, and Brandon Morrow for Carlos Quentin.
Oh sorry, no fantasy talk.
by Kenny Knows Sports on Jul 29, 2009 10:34 PM PDT up reply actions
He's one of my favorite young pitchers.
He wasn’t getting as lucky this year as he was last year (large difference in BABIP this season) but yeah anyone who can hit the strike zone that often without getting completely knocked around is special. In his professional career: 50 walks in 317 innings.
by Kenny Knows Sports on Jul 29, 2009 10:43 PM PDT up reply actions
Given his injury history, absolutely
We stood pat for entirely too long, imo.
I don't really think its the FO's fault.
He simply needed to make it to July without getting hurt and he couldn’t do that. His value wasn’t high enough in May to consider a deal compared to what it would have been now if he just stayed healthy.
I think Bedard is going to sign a one or two year deal to stay here.
by Kenny Knows Sports on Jul 29, 2009 10:51 PM PDT up reply actions
Trade Washburn while value is high
Makes no sense to hold a soon to be 35 year old pitcher having his best season in several years. Is he turning himself into Jamie Moyer? I doubt it. Either arbitration or Scott Boras will cost the M’s more than his future value is likely to be. Trade him to Minnesota, New york or Boston, and wish him well. Jack Z is making good moves, plugging holes with guys like Wilson, Snell, Langerhans, and Hannahan for the time being, while drafting wisely and acquiring some talent to move into the lineup in 3-5 years. Branyan, Lopez, Wilson and Beltre could be Poythress, Ackley, Nick Franklin, Matt Tuiasosopo or something similar in a few years.
What?
Padres looking to shop Correia — 11:51 p.m.
The Padres are not just talking to teams about first baseman Adrian Gonzalez and closer Heath Bell.
They also are actively shopping right-hander Kevin Correia, and the Brewers are among the teams interested.
No deal is close, according to major-league sources, but Correia, 7-8 with a 4.75 ERA, would come relatively cheaply.
He is owed only about $250,000 more this season.
TRADE FOR WASHBURN DAMMIT!
You got slurved!
The M's are why the suicide rates are so high in the PNW and Japan.
Correia isn't a rental
FUCK THE ANGELS!
by Fuckmikereilly on Jul 29, 2009 10:35 PM PDT up reply actions
Actually, looks like he is only signed through the year
but he’s way cheaper in terms of talent and $. He also isn’t good though, so there’s that.
FUCK THE ANGELS!
by Fuckmikereilly on Jul 29, 2009 10:47 PM PDT up reply actions
Washburn is worse but we should ignore that.
FUCK THE ANGELS!
by Fuckmikereilly on Jul 29, 2009 10:51 PM PDT up reply actions
Quiet you his ERA is better than Halladay therefore he's better than Halladay.
You got slurved!
The M's are why the suicide rates are so high in the PNW and Japan.
Kevin Correia is only signed through this year because he's an arb-eligible player
He’s under team control through 2010
by seattlebruin on Jul 30, 2009 8:46 AM PDT up reply actions
Melvin said probably not to a trade
and that was today after the Correia talk happened. The miscellaneous chatter I’ve heard makes me guess that with a half dozen buyers and only a few starters available, they’re asking a lot.
Is he doing that thing again where he only plays well when he might get a better contract?
Trade rumors last year: all of a sudden he’s pitching tremendously. Doesn’t get traded – slumps horribly for the following month.
Walk year this year: Enter The Dolphin. If he isn’t playing for a great contract anymore – Dolphin Go ByeBye?
I vote this theory be forever banned.
Guess what? Beltre sucked this year.
FUCK THE ANGELS!
by Fuckmikereilly on Jul 29, 2009 10:57 PM PDT up reply actions
The flaw in this line of thinking is that baseball players are always playing for a future contract whenever they're on the field
People don’t just flat out forget that you sucked for several years when they’re writing the checks.
I agree with you completely...
However I still find it interesting when it happens. The only season he had a better FIP than this season was 2005.
by Kenny Knows Sports on Jul 29, 2009 11:40 PM PDT up reply actions
In a perfect world...
Washburn realizes that he could do the Moyer thing if he can remain in a spacious park with a fantastic defense AND the players like him already And they think he is a warrior in between starts when he can barely move he should take pretty much whatever contract is tossed his way to stay in town. Of course he isn’t negotiating…
It seems like everyone is grumpy that he is an asset we can replace so we HAVE to sell him off and get something. And ANYthing we can get is better for the team than Wash. He is a proven major leaguer and can handle this level. If all we get is a nonprospect that will probably never make the majors and have to pay Wash’s salary anyhoo then it makes much more sense to keep him… make an offer… and let Flipper play in Seattle for the short term.
If Jack Wilson is making an 8 mill option next year but we aren’t paying him this year, isn’t the budget a little skewed? Is 4-6M/year reasonable for someone of Wilson’s caliber?
I want to hear a rumor!
Somebody must be getting pulled from a lineup somewhere…
by Attractive Nuisance on Jul 30, 2009 9:05 AM PDT reply actions
Well now this morning Yahoo wants to talk about how Halladay is staying and Washburn should "pack his bags"
This is why the trading deadline is 95% bullshit. Until a deal happens or the deadline passes, it’s all non-sense.
by Kenny Knows Sports on Jul 30, 2009 9:21 AM PDT up reply actions
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