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Around SBN: 2011 In Extreme Home Runs

Clement Thread #2

Wbc_029_tiny by Jeff Sullivan on in Seattle Mariners Transactions

Jesus Christ you guys.

The information right now is that Clement's almost certainly been traded, and that Aaron Pribanic may very well be involved as well. In addition, there are rumblings that it's a bigger package, and that the M's are moving minor league players for ML or ML-ready parts. And that's it. No idea to whom or for what. Details should come out after everyone wakes up again.

Graham's update and probably related: Pittsburgh sources are saying Jack Wilson and Ian Snell to Seattle for Clement, Cedeno, and the entire Clinton rotation. Immediate reaction from [Graham] is that it's an excessive loss of pitching prospects if true. We almost have to be pulling something else back for this to make sense. Maybe they're paying a tonne of cash?

Another update: Official. Pirates press release

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I'm just worried about what I'm going to find when I wake-up in the morning...

that’s what’s keeping me from leaving this thread now – who knows how many comments will be here by morning?!!

by mwalter on Jul 29, 2009 1:39 AM PDT reply actions  

We love you Jeff

That is why we make you create new threads! I really hope a trade is announced early tomorrow morning. And I KNOW I’m going to wake up around 4:00, go back to sleep, and have a dream about us totally fucking this trade up, then wake up and be so very grateful.

Carlos Silvelite

by OceanBird on Jul 29, 2009 1:44 AM PDT reply actions  

Okay, it's 4:00 AM where I am, I probably ought to sleep.

Here’s hoping Reid Brignac is a Mariner tomorrow morning.

I don't know how to stop.

by esoteric on Jul 29, 2009 1:54 AM PDT reply actions  

Your wish is my command.

M’s get Lillibridge and Kazmir, Rays get Clement and Morrow, White Sox get Pribanic. I made that comment or comments 1 1/2 years ago. How long before its forgotten?

by rturk89 on Jul 29, 2009 3:33 AM PDT up reply actions   8 recs

This is awesome.

And you, sir, have received a rec for this.

...and now I'm here

by CapSea on Jul 29, 2009 4:40 AM PDT up reply actions  

Wow, are you the guy who made the original Lillibridge claim!?

Upon confirmation you will receive a shiny rec for legendary comment status.

I was at Shea for the Felix-Slam!
Personal M's record: 5-4.

by EnglishMariner on Jul 29, 2009 5:17 AM PDT up reply actions  

I've been telling my kids about him!

and yes, yes he is.

De Gutibus non disputandum est

by Bearskin Rugburn on Jul 29, 2009 6:58 AM PDT up reply actions  

I've just recced him then, thanks!

YOU, RTURK89, ARE A FUCKING LEGEND.

I was at Shea for the Felix-Slam!
Personal M's record: 5-4.

by EnglishMariner on Jul 29, 2009 7:02 AM PDT up reply actions  

Read this in the comment at MLB Trade Rumors

Mariners Get:
3B Matt Gamel
C Angel Salome
SP Manny Parra

Brewers Get:
C Jeff Clement
SP Jarrod Washburn

Sounds like bull shit but here’s to hoping Z didn’t have any other offers on the table.

by David89 on Jul 29, 2009 2:29 AM PDT reply actions  

How's Gamel's defense?

FUCK THE ANGELS! FUCK THE ANGELS! FUCK THE ANGELS!

by Goose on Jul 29, 2009 2:40 AM PDT up reply actions  

He claimed she raped him first.

But the forensics are not in his favor, so he’s on shaky ground at best.

...and now I'm here

by CapSea on Jul 29, 2009 2:48 AM PDT up reply actions   1 recs

Also people like to mention the draft he was in and compare him to

some of the great players that came out that year, and I don’t think that’s all that fair because not many people were complaining when we drafted him. In hindsight it looks bad but at the time he was an established college hitter who was a catcher with 30 HR potential.

Sometimes these prospect things just don’t turn out.

by marinerdan on Jul 29, 2009 2:30 AM PDT reply actions  

I remember watching him play against WSU in Pullman where he hit a 2B and a homer.

I was grumpy for the rest of the day, but pleased when I heard we drafted him. Too bad it never came together here.

Hard work never killed nobody, but I won't take my chances.

by JAH on Jul 29, 2009 5:14 AM PDT up reply actions  

School me on Reid Brignac

If we do wind up getting him, why should I be excited? Assuming he lives up to his full potential who would he be comparable to? It would really be nice to have a real shortstop considering we haven’t had one since Alex Rodriguez…

Carlos Silvelite

by OceanBird on Jul 29, 2009 2:33 AM PDT reply actions  

Guillen?

But yeah, that position’s been hard to fill.That and catcher. Shockingly.

De Gutibus non disputandum est

by Bearskin Rugburn on Jul 29, 2009 7:01 AM PDT up reply actions  

Guys I doubt anything is going to be announced until morning EST at the earliest. Baseball guys have to sleep too you know...

That said, today at work is going to be a total writeoff because of this … it’s only 10.40AM here and already I’ve been on LL for about an hour…

I was at Shea for the Felix-Slam!
Personal M's record: 5-4.

by EnglishMariner on Jul 29, 2009 2:43 AM PDT reply actions  

Dude, its so hot here in Seattle, being close to 100 degrees Fahrenheit

And the buildings here do not having A/C. Its horrible.

2009 Safeco Field Record: 5-0 ; Overall Safeco Field Record: 9-4

by Fin on Jul 29, 2009 2:45 AM PDT up reply actions  

100 degrees? I thought Seattle was like Manchester - aka gloomy all the time and cold.

I’m sat in my office and the two women have the bloody portable heater on … but enough LLLJ.

I was at Shea for the Felix-Slam!
Personal M's record: 5-4.

by EnglishMariner on Jul 29, 2009 2:55 AM PDT up reply actions  

Its just a myth.

Yes, maybe late September to maybe late April or early May is gloomy and overcast with seldom sunbreaks, but in the summer, its consistently at least 70 degrees, if not higher, and most of the time has some sun in the day.

2009 Safeco Field Record: 5-0 ; Overall Safeco Field Record: 9-4

by Fin on Jul 29, 2009 3:00 AM PDT up reply actions  

It's to prevent the overpopulation of an already crowded city and area.

If more people from the east coast and California experienced the Northwest, we would be much highly populated here.

2009 Safeco Field Record: 5-0 ; Overall Safeco Field Record: 9-4

by Fin on Jul 29, 2009 3:01 AM PDT up reply actions  

Where have you/have you not gone, Alcides Escobar/Reid Brignac

Mariner Nation turns its lonely eyes to you’s…

by lemonverbena on Jul 29, 2009 4:30 AM PDT via mobile reply actions  

I am consumed by this insatiable need to know

and cannot be expected to do anything, save click refresh habitually until I know exactly what has happened and how I am supposed to respond to it.

ARG.

"Ever tried? Ever failed? No matter. Try again. Fail again. Fail better." - Samuel Beckett http://mvn.com/marinersminors/

by JY on Jul 29, 2009 5:51 AM PDT reply actions  

You and Jeff Clement

I bet the poor sap has been refreshing MLBTR every five minutes

De Gutibus non disputandum est

by Bearskin Rugburn on Jul 29, 2009 7:08 AM PDT up reply actions  

The waiting is killing me.

Good thing it’s an early game because I didn’t sleep last night.

Fuck Anaheim.

by Eyeball Kid on Jul 29, 2009 6:23 AM PDT reply actions  

Seriously

Cleveland starts at noon thirty PST, so my guess is that ~10 am pst/1pm god’s time we’ll get an announcement

by ManifestDestiny on Jul 29, 2009 6:27 AM PDT up reply actions  

EST is God's time?

Pah! GMT is where it’s at.

Fuck Anaheim.

by Eyeball Kid on Jul 29, 2009 6:48 AM PDT up reply actions  

BST! BST!

I was at Shea for the Felix-Slam!
Personal M's record: 5-4.

by EnglishMariner on Jul 29, 2009 7:02 AM PDT up reply actions  

So I looked at Drayer's blog this morning

… she doesn’t have anything new since last night, but she mentions that Clement “could be packaged with Brandon Morrow.”

Am I the only one who thinks that trading Morrow is a little weird? This is his age 24 season, he’s under team control for what, four years following this one, when healthy he has shown he can be an effective reliever… he’s got to have a lot of potential value to somebody, doesn’t he?

by Two Rs and Two Ls on Jul 29, 2009 6:29 AM PDT reply actions  

I for one would be unhappy with trading Morrow. I would like to wait until he has had a year as a starter before giving up on him.

Of course if GMZ can get a great deal for him, I’d be OK. But I have a feeling his trade value is not strong right now.

I was at Shea for the Felix-Slam!
Personal M's record: 5-4.

by EnglishMariner on Jul 29, 2009 6:48 AM PDT up reply actions  

I don't think it's necessarily weird

It depends on the return. For instance, packaging Clement and Morrow to get a guy like Alcides Escobar (probably with something else in return) doesn’t seem crazy. We desperately need a SS. You have to give up something to get something.

by saltydog75 on Jul 29, 2009 6:49 AM PDT up reply actions  

I really doubt that Clement and Morrow would be enough to get Escobar.

My hopes for this deal rest on the shoulders of Reid Brignac.

Fuck Anaheim.

by Eyeball Kid on Jul 29, 2009 6:50 AM PDT up reply actions  

You're probably right

He’s just the type of guy I really want back. Brignac would be good, too, but I’m not sure about taking on a higher salary like Kazmir as well (since that seems to be the rumor). If he’s healthy, it’s OK, but if he turns into the second coming of Bedard, that’s a lot of $$ tied up.

Regardless, if we get our SS of the future, I will probably like it.

by saltydog75 on Jul 29, 2009 6:58 AM PDT up reply actions  

Escobar's not happening

even if the brewers were stupid, and they’re not, they couldn’t take on Washburn’s salary without shedding some. If we’re dealing with the Brewers chances are pretty good it’s Hardy coming our way. Maybe someone else to make it sweeter, but forget about Escobar.

De Gutibus non disputandum est

by Bearskin Rugburn on Jul 29, 2009 7:05 AM PDT up reply actions  

I hope you're wrong.

With how much this is being built up, I want someone more exciting than Hardy.

by katal on Jul 29, 2009 7:22 AM PDT up reply actions  

I think they could take on some salary

but Clement, Morrow and Washburn for Escobar is horrible. Hardy is too much rather than not enough.

by JetSam on Jul 29, 2009 8:01 AM PDT up reply actions  

Whose perspective are you talking about here?

Also, I don’t think there’s anything about Morrow moving. Pribanic is the other name, no?

De Gutibus non disputandum est

by Bearskin Rugburn on Jul 29, 2009 8:58 AM PDT up reply actions  

GOD DAMN IT SOMETHING HAPPEN :o

Yesterday's Pants
A blog-thingy about the Mariners and stuff.

by BrettJMiller on Jul 29, 2009 7:22 AM PDT reply actions  

Shhhhhhhhh

people on the left coast are still sleeping, and are blissfully unaware of our anger….and the fact that they have to endure 100 degree heat today

by ManifestDestiny on Jul 29, 2009 7:23 AM PDT up reply actions  

You guys are weak.

It’s consistently in the 90’s AND humid out here on the east coast. Though, it must suck not having ac.

by levnclf on Jul 29, 2009 7:40 AM PDT up reply actions   1 recs

Amen

Tired of all the bitching already…it will be back down to the 70’s next week and everyone will return their shiny new air conditioners/fans.

by Omerta on Jul 29, 2009 8:26 AM PDT up reply actions  

please keep this on topic, thanks

bitching about the heat or about people bitching about the heat is going on in the off-topic thread.

Nice Guys Finish Third - My semantics are a waste of time.

by pdb on Jul 29, 2009 8:29 AM PDT up reply actions  

Possibly not related

But a veritable bevy of Phillies prospects (SP Carlos Carrasco, C Lou Marson, SS Jason Donald) are scratched from their games as well.

Same deal, or is today just going to be wacky?

by ManifestDestiny on Jul 29, 2009 7:47 AM PDT reply actions  

What are the best equivalent blogs - kind of mirror-mirror of LL/USSM/Times - on potential trade partner teams?

I don’t know enough about any kind of TB / Cleveland sort of blogs to see which ones are reliable enough to look for hints. I mean, I can just drag out whatever is in SBNation for them, or their major newspapers, perhaps… but they might not be any better than the comments threads on ESPN or MLBTradeRumors…

by Spoomeister on Jul 29, 2009 7:49 AM PDT reply actions  

SBN has reliable blogs for both Cleveland and Tampa

Do not under any circumstances go to the Cleveland Plain Dealer’s website.

Steel Nick

by nickjs21 on Jul 29, 2009 7:51 AM PDT up reply actions  

DRaysBay is a really good blog run by R.J. Anderson who attracts retards almost as well a special school.

Good luck fishing for hints. Baseball transactions are very professional compared to say, football, where we knew for months about major transfers e.g. Ronaldo, Tevez, Eto’o before they were concluded. Leaks and ITK people are very hard to come by.

I was at Shea for the Felix-Slam!
Personal M's record: 5-4.

by EnglishMariner on Jul 29, 2009 8:00 AM PDT up reply actions  

Rosenthal:
Slumping Brewers not pursuing Washburn — Updated 9:53 a.m.

The Brewers, thought to be one of the favorites for Jarrod Washburn, are not seriously engaged in discussions for the Mariners’ veteran left-hander.

The reasons: The Brewers do not want to give up good prospects for two months of Washburn at a time when they have lost 16 of their last 23 games.
Mariners pull Clement from minor-league game — Updated 10:51 a.m.

The Mariners removed former first-round pick Jeff Clement from a Class AAA Tacoma game on Tuesday and later informed him that he is about to be traded, one major-league source told FOXSports.com.

Officials from the Indians and Rays, among the most active teams this week, said they’re not involved in the Clement talks. The Red Sox and Pirates have also scouted Tacoma recently, the source said, but it’s not clear if they are involved in the imminent trade.

FUCK THE ANGELS! FUCK THE ANGELS! FUCK THE ANGELS!

by Goose on Jul 29, 2009 8:08 AM PDT reply actions  

I was about to post this.

How reliable is Rosenthal?

Also: Morrow and Clement for Jack Wilson!

Fuck Anaheim.

by Eyeball Kid on Jul 29, 2009 8:09 AM PDT up reply actions  

Here's the thing with rumors, almost every rumor is legit.

What I mean by that, is the teams have at least discussed the deal being reported. It doesn’t mean that it’s going to happen. Trades are complicated. Guys like Rosenthal, Gammons, ect. have good source. Sometimes they get used by teams to float rumors that are completely untrue, but for the most part, these deals are at least talked about. That in no way means that the deal is going to happen.

Tools Whore

by Tyler on Jul 29, 2009 9:01 AM PDT up reply actions  

I still wouldn't completely rule out them of course.

Remember that both Seattle and Baltimore officials denied that a Bedard trade was in the works.

by Coach Owens on Jul 29, 2009 8:39 AM PDT up reply actions  

I agree

if you’re talking brewers. It sounds more like extrapolation by him. I don’t believe Z, Melvin or Gord Ash would say something like that.

by JetSam on Jul 29, 2009 10:03 AM PDT up reply actions  

One thing is for certain

Jack Z has complete control over this front office. The fact that no leaks have surfaced ~ 12 hours after Clement has been pulled is a testimony to a tightly-ran ship.

by ManifestDestiny on Jul 29, 2009 8:16 AM PDT reply actions  

This is how a good corporation runs.

I am thinking of Apple here. Very rarely are there true leaks until days before a product launch and it allows them to always stay ahead of the competition.

by Robert on Jul 29, 2009 8:42 AM PDT up reply actions  

Very true

I love it

I want to poop at your house - Thingray

by tootthekazoo on Jul 29, 2009 8:43 AM PDT up reply actions  

Good point Robert.

I was at Shea for the Felix-Slam!
Personal M's record: 5-4.

by EnglishMariner on Jul 29, 2009 8:55 AM PDT up reply actions  

MLBTR shows

FOX reporter Ken Rosenthal states that Cleveland AND Tampa are denying that they are involved in any Clement talks.

Blow it up! BLOW IT SKY HIGH!

by tkballer22 on Jul 29, 2009 8:21 AM PDT reply actions  

I love random Fantasy bloggers

heh.

“Anyone that Seattle trades – using Adam Jones as precedent, I know the Mariners will make a bad move. The current squawk is they’ll deal Jeff Clement and Brandon Morrow. Why? Apparently because they think they have a shot this year, despite their No. 2/3 pitcher (Bedard) just went down with shoulder issues. Chapeau! Seattle. So if they deal either Clement or Morrow, be on top of that. I actually will not be as big on Washburn if he’s dealt. That OF in Seattle helps pitchers out a ton.”

by msb on Jul 29, 2009 8:25 AM PDT reply actions  

that kind of stuff still angers me a little

even though it shouldn’t

King of the bling come to lay down the evidence//Not George Bush, L-Millz be da president

by Sam Page on Jul 29, 2009 8:27 AM PDT up reply actions  

Well, would it be that hard to do a little research?

If a newspaper is letting you blog from their site?

by msb on Jul 29, 2009 8:28 AM PDT up reply actions  

exactly

or, if you’re going to comment on a FO, at least be somewhat current with their moves. The best part is the last sentence.

King of the bling come to lay down the evidence//Not George Bush, L-Millz be da president

by Sam Page on Jul 29, 2009 8:30 AM PDT up reply actions  

So according to some Pittsburgh writer, the Pirates worked "until late last night" on potential trades

involving Wilson and Sanchez. I know what Dave said about ruling out the NL, but is there any chance that we got one of them?

by Coach Owens on Jul 29, 2009 8:30 AM PDT reply actions  

There's always a chance I guess

but it’s important to remember that the Clement trade is probably not the only trade in the works right now, as we get close to the non-waiver trade deadline; it’s entirely possible that the Pittsburgh writer is right but that the potential trades don’t involve Clement.

Nice Guys Finish Third - My semantics are a waste of time.

by pdb on Jul 29, 2009 8:32 AM PDT up reply actions  

I never got why I was supposed to be excited about these guys.

Two win infielders on the wrong side of 30. Their 2010 options seem reasonable. Either of them would obviously be an upgrade, but I guess I would just be more into going younger up the middle.

by Manzanillos Cup on Jul 29, 2009 8:43 AM PDT up reply actions  

I'm so excited!

And the feeling is not at all tinged with imminent dread as in the past five years!

I love you Jack Z.

by Omerta on Jul 29, 2009 8:35 AM PDT reply actions  

Surprise cockpunches are the worst kind of ball tampering.

I was at Shea for the Felix-Slam!
Personal M's record: 5-4.

by EnglishMariner on Jul 29, 2009 8:36 AM PDT up reply actions   1 recs

The immient dread is no longer there, but possible disappointment still is.

All the eariler talk of Escobar/Brianic/Hardy makes Wilson/Sanchez seem like a buzzkill if it happens.

FUCK THE ANGELS! FUCK THE ANGELS! FUCK THE ANGELS!

by Goose on Jul 29, 2009 8:37 AM PDT up reply actions  

Well I would agree with that.

Still, I came to accept that Clement was a goner when he didn’t make the team, and getting a useful piece for Washburn (even as he’s played this year) comes off as a big win for us.

Morrow possibly leaving…whether that’s acceptable or not indeed depends upon the return.

by Omerta on Jul 29, 2009 8:42 AM PDT up reply actions  

Exactly

This is the same thing I’ve been thinking for about 3 days… Thanks Omerta for writing it so deftly.

by A Steamy Day in Cleveland on Jul 29, 2009 9:00 AM PDT up reply actions  

OK it's 9 AM

Get your asses up and make some announcements already, damnit

by ManifestDestiny on Jul 29, 2009 8:58 AM PDT reply actions  

Jack Wilson

is a possiblity if it is a deal for major leaguers. That’s according to Churchill. And that would be weird.

by tait644 on Jul 29, 2009 9:05 AM PDT reply actions  

Chris Tillman making his major league debut tonight.

I love how that trade has set the standard in such a bad way. The Phillies and Blue Jays must hate Bavasi right now.

by Wilder. on Jul 29, 2009 9:06 AM PDT reply actions  

I'm driving up to Baltimore with a buddy

to go see it. It’s vs. Greinke too so it should be a good game.

by levnclf on Jul 29, 2009 9:07 AM PDT up reply actions  

Look at that team in 2010!

OF – Ich, Gut, Saunders, #4 Langers

IF – Branyan the Canyon/Shelton platoon, Jose Taco Bell, ANYONE at SS, Beltre, Hana-Banana, a few others…

P – King, Bedard, various others…

Notice the HUGE gap in the IF? If this trade doesn’t fill in that gap, I’ll be highly disappointed. Extremely Let Down. In the dumps… to say the least.

COME ON Z!

by A Steamy Day in Cleveland on Jul 29, 2009 9:09 AM PDT reply actions  

Uh, you are aware that Branyan, Beltre, and Bedard are all FA?

Because I’d be real surprised to see two of them resigned, let alone all three

I'd rather know a little about a lot than a lot about a little

by Sportszilla on Jul 29, 2009 9:12 AM PDT up reply actions  

This is a bad post. Many of those players will be gone. Way to pay attention to your team.

Your attempts at jokes are bad and you should feel bad.

angels fan in seattle

by Eyebrows on Jul 29, 2009 9:14 AM PDT up reply actions   1 recs

And seriously?

How the fuck does Jose Taco Bell make any sense as a joke? I don’t even know where to start.

angels fan in seattle

by Eyebrows on Jul 29, 2009 9:16 AM PDT up reply actions  

I wake up hoping for news and..

Damnit..

Well according to Larry Stone, its supposedly not the Indians and Tampa

by Pessimistic Optimist on Jul 29, 2009 9:14 AM PDT reply actions  

CONFIRMED!!!

Stone says the Tribe is not in the deal. Which is ok, so long as Tampa remains in it…

by tait644 on Jul 29, 2009 9:30 AM PDT reply actions  

NO

July 29, 2009 at 8:37 AM

FOX: indians, Rays not involved in Clement deal

Posted by Larry Stone

It is 9:37. You are an hour late.

by Pessimistic Optimist on Jul 29, 2009 9:37 AM PDT up reply actions  

No

Stone just updated that to add his own confirmation that Cleveland is out.

Hence, CONFIRMED in nice big letters…

by tait644 on Jul 29, 2009 9:42 AM PDT up reply actions  

Hmmm

Larry Stone:

Cleveland is not involved in any pending Jeff Clement deal, I’ve just confirmed.

Geoff Baker:

No way Jarrod Washburn stays with Seattle Mariners beyond Friday

FUCK THE ANGELS! FUCK THE ANGELS! FUCK THE ANGELS!

by Goose on Jul 29, 2009 9:31 AM PDT reply actions  

I think it's safe to say Baker's right

There’s just no way Z doesn’t get SOMETHING for him at this point

Try not to take me too seriously

by calim on Jul 29, 2009 9:33 AM PDT up reply actions  

If Halladay gets pulled from his start today

in order to don an Angels’ cap that’s going to put a temporaray downer on this whole affair.

by Omerta on Jul 29, 2009 9:34 AM PDT reply actions  

Fuck the Angles in the ass with Ichiro's bat

Racer X. You have to love those amarillo hops.

p.s. fuck you angels

p.p.s. geoff baker is an idiot

by InSpokane on Jul 29, 2009 9:38 AM PDT up reply actions  

why yes. The collapse and the trade has me a little agitated

Racer X. You have to love those amarillo hops.

p.s. fuck you angels

p.p.s. geoff baker is an idiot

by InSpokane on Jul 29, 2009 9:42 AM PDT up reply actions  

Let Branyan do it

Try not to take me too seriously

by calim on Jul 29, 2009 9:42 AM PDT up reply actions  

Are you kidding?

the price being asked I think I’d rather he go to the Angels than anywhere else. He’s only got one more year under contract and Aybar, Weaver, Woods and whoever else… that’s a lot of marginal wins right there.

De Gutibus non disputandum est

by Bearskin Rugburn on Jul 29, 2009 10:11 AM PDT up reply actions  

Ed Price Twitter

Source: #Pirates getting Jeff Clement from #Mariners. Other Seattle minor-leaguers involved. Could be for a P (Duke?) or a 3-team deal.

by ManifestDestiny on Jul 29, 2009 9:35 AM PDT reply actions  

Who's Ed Price?

FUCK THE ANGELS! FUCK THE ANGELS! FUCK THE ANGELS!

by Goose on Jul 29, 2009 9:36 AM PDT up reply actions  

AOL Fanhouse guy

broke…the Holliday story last year I think?

by ManifestDestiny on Jul 29, 2009 9:37 AM PDT up reply actions  

Kovacevic again

#Pirates trade Wilson and Ian Snell for Jeff Clement,Ronny Cedeno, Aaron Pribanic, Brett Lorin, Nathan Adcock

by ManifestDestiny on Jul 29, 2009 9:42 AM PDT reply actions  

Woa.

FUCK THE ANGELS! FUCK THE ANGELS! FUCK THE ANGELS!

by Goose on Jul 29, 2009 9:42 AM PDT up reply actions  

WHAT

"Ever tried? Ever failed? No matter. Try again. Fail again. Fail better." - Samuel Beckett http://mvn.com/marinersminors/

by JY on Jul 29, 2009 9:43 AM PDT up reply actions  

Jumping took too long

I just drove straight off.

IF I WAS MANAGER I'D HAVE A FIST FIGHT WITH YUNI RIGHT NOW AND KNOCK HIS FUCKING MONKEY HEAD CLEAN OFF (~EM)

by seattlecougar on Jul 29, 2009 9:44 AM PDT up reply actions  

Right now my hope is that Jack Z has scouted these guys and has decided in his infinite wisdom that they'll never amount to much.

And I do like Snell a lot. But man…that’s a lot to give up for Wilson and Snell.

I don't know how to stop.

by esoteric on Jul 29, 2009 9:46 AM PDT reply actions  

Well

Perhaps when Philly got involved in talks for Lee, it screwed up our chances with Tampa. And this is the best Jack could do for Clement.

But damn, that sure is a buzzkill.

by tait644 on Jul 29, 2009 9:46 AM PDT reply actions  

It's not like he HAD to deal Clement

He has to deal Washburn. Clement he could wait on

Try not to take me too seriously

by calim on Jul 29, 2009 9:47 AM PDT up reply actions  

My speculation.

Mariners get: Ian Snell and Ryan Doumit.

Pirates Get: Jeff Clement Aaron Pribanic.

Maybe?

by Mariner Melee on Jul 29, 2009 9:46 AM PDT reply actions  

I guess you could call him that

But I’m not very excited in a 31 year-old SS with a couple of years left on his deal.

by tait644 on Jul 29, 2009 9:50 AM PDT up reply actions  

Yeah, me neither.

FUCK THE ANGELS! FUCK THE ANGELS! FUCK THE ANGELS!

by Goose on Jul 29, 2009 9:50 AM PDT up reply actions  

he's pretty expensive as well, isn't he?

Chris Iannetta status: DOOM
Seth Smith status: FREE SETH SMITH
Matt Murton status: Prisoner Exchanged for CarGon
Mike McCoy status: FREE MIKE MCCOY

by Andrew Martin on Jul 29, 2009 9:51 AM PDT up reply actions  

Wilson's signed through 09

With a 8.4M club option for 10 (600k buyout).
Making 7.25M this year.

Either he’s a rental player (confused) or we’re about to open up the pocketbooks to keep him around.

Pirates Contracts

IF I WAS MANAGER I'D HAVE A FIST FIGHT WITH YUNI RIGHT NOW AND KNOCK HIS FUCKING MONKEY HEAD CLEAN OFF (~EM)

by seattlecougar on Jul 29, 2009 9:57 AM PDT up reply actions  

I hope that's the case

But their payroll is less than half of ours, and they just tried to offer Sanchez and Wilson lowball contracts to buy out their 2010 option years. Doesn’t seem like the kind of team that’s eager to eat any cash.

IF I WAS MANAGER I'D HAVE A FIST FIGHT WITH YUNI RIGHT NOW AND KNOCK HIS FUCKING MONKEY HEAD CLEAN OFF (~EM)

by seattlecougar on Jul 29, 2009 10:03 AM PDT up reply actions  

they have been dumping payroll

Snell would fit with that too, as he is not cheap and flat out stated he doesn’t want to pitch for them

by JetSam on Jul 29, 2009 10:12 AM PDT up reply actions  

To me

It would seem strange if PIT was the one doling out the cash

Try not to take me too seriously

by calim on Jul 29, 2009 9:51 AM PDT up reply actions  

And down goes USSM.

FUCK THE ANGELS! FUCK THE ANGELS! FUCK THE ANGELS!

by Goose on Jul 29, 2009 9:49 AM PDT reply actions  

Hoping is the first step towards disappointment.

"Ever tried? Ever failed? No matter. Try again. Fail again. Fail better." - Samuel Beckett http://mvn.com/marinersminors/

by JY on Jul 29, 2009 9:52 AM PDT up reply actions  

You'd think we would of learned by now.

God we’re fucking stupid.

FUCK THE ANGELS! FUCK THE ANGELS! FUCK THE ANGELS!

by Goose on Jul 29, 2009 9:53 AM PDT up reply actions  

USSM

still works for me lol

by fresnofan on Jul 29, 2009 9:51 AM PDT reply actions  

Rosenthal
Pirates send Wilson, Snell to M’s — 12:43 p.m.

The Pirates just announced that they have acquired first baseman Jeff Clement, shortstop Ronny Cedeno and right-handed pitchers Aaron Pribanic, Brett Lorin and Nathan Adcock from the Mariners for shortstop Jack Wilson and right-handed pitcher Ian Snell.

There has to be more to this, right?

by Poochie on Jul 29, 2009 9:51 AM PDT reply actions  

Nope.

ESPN is saying that’s the whole deal.

by Fear on Jul 29, 2009 9:52 AM PDT up reply actions  

Could this be some kind of prelude to another deal?

If we got Wilson on the cheap in order to add some payroll somewhere or something?

Try not to take me too seriously

by calim on Jul 29, 2009 9:52 AM PDT reply actions  

We didn't give anything up payroll wise

Clement making 400k. Cedeno making 820k. Minor leaguers making effectively nothing.

Wilson making several mil over the rest of the season. Snell owed a few mil this year, a few mil next year. Both have expensive team options looming at the end of their runs.

We took on salary here.

IF I WAS MANAGER I'D HAVE A FIST FIGHT WITH YUNI RIGHT NOW AND KNOCK HIS FUCKING MONKEY HEAD CLEAN OFF (~EM)

by seattlecougar on Jul 29, 2009 10:01 AM PDT up reply actions  

Makes my stomach less queasy

But it still doesn’t free up any of our payroll. Even if the Pirates eat the entirety of the Snell and Wilson contracts, we knock what – a million and change off our books this year, with over $10 million owed next year (assuming we pick up the team option on Wilson)? That’s a big commitment to make…

IF I WAS MANAGER I'D HAVE A FIST FIGHT WITH YUNI RIGHT NOW AND KNOCK HIS FUCKING MONKEY HEAD CLEAN OFF (~EM)

by seattlecougar on Jul 29, 2009 10:05 AM PDT up reply actions  

I don't get it.

Adding Wilson at this point, at that price…

by Omerta on Jul 29, 2009 9:53 AM PDT reply actions  

Let's be honest here, Snell and Wilson are a good return

The only thing I don’t like is the quantity of our single-A arms in the trade

by Graham MacAree on Jul 29, 2009 9:54 AM PDT reply actions  

This basically kills our single-A pitching depth

yeah Pribanic, Lorin and Adcock were behind JC Ramirez and Pineda, but that’s a ton of decent prospects to give up

by seattlebruin on Jul 29, 2009 9:55 AM PDT up reply actions  

Call me disappointed.

I fucking hate you Mariners

by kentroyals5 on Jul 29, 2009 9:54 AM PDT reply actions   1 recs

So Lorin, Pribanic, and Adcock aren't like sure-thing prospects.

It seems like a lot, yeah. But it’s not like we just traded a bunch of blue-chippers or anything.

Yesterday's Pants
A blog-thingy about the Mariners and stuff.

by BrettJMiller on Jul 29, 2009 9:54 AM PDT reply actions  

That's the main problem I have with this.

"Ever tried? Ever failed? No matter. Try again. Fail again. Fail better." - Samuel Beckett http://mvn.com/marinersminors/

by JY on Jul 29, 2009 9:55 AM PDT up reply actions  

Additionally...

I could handle it if we were going for a shortstop who was a long-term solution, but Jack Wilson? Really?

"Ever tried? Ever failed? No matter. Try again. Fail again. Fail better." - Samuel Beckett http://mvn.com/marinersminors/

by JY on Jul 29, 2009 9:57 AM PDT up reply actions  

Probably?

And Snell is here for a while if he recovers what he lost.

by Jeff Sullivan on Jul 29, 2009 10:00 AM PDT up reply actions  

Hey my mom's side of the family happens to be from India-no-place.

Seriously though, Snell was crushing down in AAA. He just needed to get out of whatever atmosphere in Pittsburgh was poisoning him.

I’m actually really pleased to have Snell. I think we paid too much, but then maybe I’m overvaluing young prospects.

I don't know how to stop.

by esoteric on Jul 29, 2009 10:09 AM PDT up reply actions  

I don't know what to think!

I need someone to tell me who won this deal, and they need to tell me now!

angels fan in seattle

by Eyebrows on Jul 29, 2009 9:55 AM PDT reply actions  

I am glad that it's Snell we got back and not Duke.

FUCK THE ANGELS! FUCK THE ANGELS! FUCK THE ANGELS!

by Goose on Jul 29, 2009 9:58 AM PDT reply actions  

This isn't the huge trade chip that Z had in play..

Clement was a lost cause at AAA and had no future with the organization, Cedeno – nuff said, and a host of Single-A arms for a starting SS and a 27-year-old major league starting pitcher.

It’s not like we mortgaged the future or anything.. Single-A arms are easily replaced.

by seattlesundevil on Jul 29, 2009 10:00 AM PDT up reply actions  

OK, after cooling down a bit, I like this trade a little more

I had forgotten that Snell has so much team control left and is reasonably cheap.

Now let’s just hope he’s actually still good.

by seattlebruin on Jul 29, 2009 10:02 AM PDT up reply actions  

He is

His ML peripherals were solid and his MiL numbers were phenomenal

De Gutibus non disputandum est

by Bearskin Rugburn on Jul 29, 2009 10:18 AM PDT up reply actions  

Any possibility

that Washburn now goes for pitching prospects instead of a SS?

by cyberwulf on Jul 29, 2009 9:59 AM PDT reply actions  

Here's the thing

You can’t view this as a last-ditch bid to contend in 2009. This is all about setting us up for 2010. GMZ clearly likes this team as constituted and doesn’t want to tear it apart. And who can blame him? The clubhouse under Wakamatsu is apparently as good as it gets.

Honestly, I wouldn’t be surprised to see the FO pursue an unlikely tack: keep the core players with the team. Re-sign Washburn, Beltre, Branyan – hoping they’ll feel so good about the team that they’ll come at a discount – fix the gaping holes (SS), and continue to win with pitching, defense, and timely hitting.

by saltydog75 on Jul 29, 2009 10:00 AM PDT reply actions  

But it's sort of a bid to contend this year.

Otherwise, why get Wilson?

angels fan in seattle

by Eyebrows on Jul 29, 2009 10:01 AM PDT up reply actions  

That's contingent on an awful lot of things to go right.

"Ever tried? Ever failed? No matter. Try again. Fail again. Fail better." - Samuel Beckett http://mvn.com/marinersminors/

by JY on Jul 29, 2009 10:02 AM PDT up reply actions  

Official release:

Pirates acquire five players from Seattle in deal for Jack Wilson and Ian Snell

The Pittsburgh Pirates today announced that they have acquired first baseman Jeff Clement, shortstop Ronny Cedeno and right-handed pitchers Aaron Pribanic, Brett Lorin and Nathan Adcock from the Seattle Mariners organization in exchange for shortstop Jack Wilson and right-handed pitcher Ian Snell. The announcement was made by Pirates Senior Vice President, General Manager Neal Huntington.

by lemonverbena on Jul 29, 2009 10:00 AM PDT reply actions  

I'm kind of with you.

We got the two best players in the trade.
Of course, in 3 years, this may look silly.

more on Yuni

by yuniform on Jul 29, 2009 10:02 AM PDT up reply actions  

I'm not wild about it but I don't think it's awful

People generally just tend to be a little overprotective of our prospects.

by Jeff Sullivan on Jul 29, 2009 10:02 AM PDT up reply actions  

I just don't like Wilson very much.

He’s older, he doesn’t hit, and he’s moving to the AL and Safeco. I don’t see how he is much more than a marginal addition.

And is Pitts giving us any cash?

by tait644 on Jul 29, 2009 10:03 AM PDT up reply actions  

I mean sure it's possible but I think it's honest to call him a solidly league average player.

And he’s being paid like it next season, so it’s not a bad contract or anything.

Eh, I don’t know. I don’t like it but I don’t hate it.

by Aaron Campeau on Jul 29, 2009 10:15 AM PDT up reply actions  

He was worth 2.6 wins in 2007

1.5 in half a season last year
and is on pace to be worth 3 this year

That’s a decent three years of play

by Poochie on Jul 29, 2009 10:19 AM PDT up reply actions  

I must have something cleared up for me

Do we have Jack Wilson for next year as well? Because I’m hearing different things about him having an option. Is he just guaranteed to take it?

FUCK THE ANGELS!

by Fuckmikereilly on Jul 29, 2009 10:04 AM PDT up reply actions  

If we exercise his option

Which of course we will, barring injury.

by tait644 on Jul 29, 2009 10:04 AM PDT up reply actions  

It's not a bad trade per se

I just think we gave one too many of Pribanic/Lorin.

That and it’s a huge fucking anti-climax.

Fuck Anaheim.

by Eyeball Kid on Jul 29, 2009 10:04 AM PDT up reply actions  

Ian Snell

“Snell was demoted to AAA-Indianapolis Indians on June 24, per his request, after publicizing his battle with depression and contemplating suicide.”

Anyone know the latest on his condition?

"I have two normal feet and I can't see the slightest God-damned reason why anybody should stare at them."

by ImaginaryRomances on Jul 29, 2009 10:01 AM PDT reply actions  

Yeah I was just about to highlight that.

Obviously Z believes it to be a non-issue…

by Omerta on Jul 29, 2009 10:02 AM PDT up reply actions  

Hopefully he does whatever Greinke did.

"I have two normal feet and I can't see the slightest God-damned reason why anybody should stare at them."

by ImaginaryRomances on Jul 29, 2009 10:02 AM PDT up reply actions  

I mind that less than the idea that we may have been jobbed by the GM of the Pirates.

"Ever tried? Ever failed? No matter. Try again. Fail again. Fail better." - Samuel Beckett http://mvn.com/marinersminors/

by JY on Jul 29, 2009 10:03 AM PDT up reply actions  

So, really, what craters of dumbness are left in MLB front offices?

KC, Washington (at least for now), Houston…
Who else? The White Sox? Philly?

more on Yuni

by yuniform on Jul 29, 2009 10:27 AM PDT up reply actions  

Mets

angels fan in seattle

by Eyebrows on Jul 29, 2009 10:28 AM PDT up reply actions  

Yeah, I forgot about that.

Paying Rodriguez that much was a bad move, and they came out pretty poorly in the Putz trade.

more on Yuni

by yuniform on Jul 29, 2009 10:37 AM PDT up reply actions  

And then there's the Oliver Perez deal.

- The Luis Castillo deal (he’s doing well so far this season, but still: a ridiculous overpay.

- The failure to build any bench depth whatsoever.

etc.etc.

And never forget: this is the man who traded Sizemore, Phillips and Lee for half a season of Bartolo Colon. Spare me your “they had to go for it! contraction!” arguments. That was off the table at the time he made the trade. Omar’s just a putz.

I don't know how to stop.

by esoteric on Jul 29, 2009 10:39 AM PDT up reply actions  

Yeah, the White Sox somehow cobble together good teams.

But they depend on guys like Jermaine Dye and Matt Thornton becoming quality players.
It’s irritating.

more on Yuni

by yuniform on Jul 29, 2009 10:33 AM PDT up reply actions  

Beat me to it.

Hey, was it you I was talking about this with in the other thread last night?

I don't know how to stop.

by esoteric on Jul 29, 2009 10:37 AM PDT up reply actions  

Probably.

I still don’t think he’s good, but he’s made some good moves and has his talents.

by Aaron Campeau on Jul 29, 2009 10:38 AM PDT up reply actions  

Kenny Williams is underrated as a GM.

Not great by any means, but a better scout than people think — he’s good at targeting undervalued/flawed players and slotting them into Ozzie’s insanity. And at the end of the day outcomes have to matter for something.

I don't know how to stop.

by esoteric on Jul 29, 2009 10:36 AM PDT up reply actions  

Everyone on the Southside knows that Ozzie was behind that deal - he HATED Swisher, and the feeling was mutual.

Doesn’t mean that Williams had to assent — or get so little back for him — but Tony La Russa’s been pulling the same stunts for years in St. Louis as well (e.g. the Fangraphs article today).

Agreed though: that’s the biggest black mark on his recent record. I don’t think that was a failure of scouting, though, so much as it was one of personalities.

I don't know how to stop.

by esoteric on Jul 29, 2009 10:41 AM PDT up reply actions  

Actually, the stories out of the southside here were more interesting and complex than that.

Swisher irked Ozzie immensely in several ways:

1.) His tendency to be jovial and happy-go-lucky even when the White Sox were in the crapper (which they were for much of 2008, despite limping into the playoffs at the last second) INFURIATED Guillen. Trust me, if you’re familiar at all with the way Guillen wants his team to work, you understand how this clash can and would be fatal.

2.) The spectacularly poor production didn’t help at all, especially when combined with said joviality. Guillen came this close to saying in the press that it seemed like Swisher didn’t care.

3.) When Swisher was finally benched late in the season (justifiably, given his performance thus far) he began to sulk pretty openly.

4.) As a side note, apparently Swisher’s style wasn’t all that popular in the clubhouse either. From all reports, the whole outgoing wacky clown schtick clashed badly with the personalities of the team’s established leaders, quieter guys like Thome and Buerhle and Dye. Incidentally I would love to have seen how Swisher got along with Pierzynski.

Again, we all know that Swisher was/is better than his numbers in 2009 — that’s why he’s happily ensconced in the Yankees outfield and is heading to the playoffs — but it was this combination of factors that made his exeunt inevitable. Shouldn’t have had to end like that, and lord knows the Sox got 100% jobbed on the exchange, but there you have it.

I don’t doubt that Kenny Williams still thought that Swisher was a good player, but his hand was forced by Ozzie’s hatred of him, his own bad behavior, his relative unpopularity with the players, and his poor performance. A perfect storm leading to a terrible trade.

I don't know how to stop.

by esoteric on Jul 29, 2009 10:54 AM PDT up reply actions  

So I see Jarrod is still here.

FUCK THE ANGELS! FUCK THE ANGELS! FUCK THE ANGELS!

by Goose on Jul 29, 2009 10:01 AM PDT reply actions  

Yeah, we're not done

Wlad, the choke of 1B/DH in Tacoma and other pieces are still around, and of course Morrow could move now that we have Snell, so Jack’s not done

by ManifestDestiny on Jul 29, 2009 10:03 AM PDT up reply actions  

Yeah, Z probably has one or two more trades in him.

So we should probably wait and evaluate after it’s all over.

FUCK THE ANGELS!

by Fuckmikereilly on Jul 29, 2009 10:05 AM PDT up reply actions  

There's still a shoe left to drop

Wlad and Wash in the least, if every M’s writer/blogger is to be believed

by lemonverbena on Jul 29, 2009 10:04 AM PDT up reply actions  

Ronny :)edeno

You helped, Ronny!

Try not to take me too seriously

by calim on Jul 29, 2009 10:07 AM PDT reply actions  

Snell is 27 already?

Huh, I thought he was younger than that……

FUCK THE ANGELS! FUCK THE ANGELS! FUCK THE ANGELS!

by Goose on Jul 29, 2009 10:08 AM PDT reply actions  

It's an overpay

I’ll post this on USSM if it ever comes back to life, but the whole point of targeting a guy like Snell is that he should be fairly low cost to acquire. This isn’t a fairly low cost.

by davidcameron on Jul 29, 2009 10:08 AM PDT reply actions  

This is reminiscent of the Bavasi era

In that it looks like the Mariners targeted a guy they liked and gave up what they needed to to get him. If the front office’s valuation of Snell is accurate, then it should work out, but it’s certainly not the value acquisition one would hope for.

by Nadingo on Jul 29, 2009 10:10 AM PDT up reply actions  

I don't see it.

They wanted a shortstop. Perhaps the cost for Brignac/Hardy/Escobar was way too high for them to stomach, and this was a reasonable fallback option. I highly doubt that Jack Wilson was at the top of the M’s target list.

by Teej on Jul 29, 2009 10:20 AM PDT up reply actions  

I was thinking about Snell, rather than Wilson

I’m not trying to say GMZ = Bavasi, but it just looked like a similar kind of move. When is a buy-low guy not a buy-low guy? When you decide that you have to have him. I admit it’s just a random guess on my part, but it’s hard to explain why they would overpay for a guy who has fallen so out of favor with his club.

by Nadingo on Jul 29, 2009 10:52 AM PDT up reply actions  

Well, for one,

Snell is the exact same situation as Clement, except Snell has proven himself at the MLB level before

by Matthew on Jul 29, 2009 10:55 AM PDT up reply actions  

It’s always an overpay when you are acquiring major league-ready pitching.

This is a good deal for the Mariners.

by Toxicadam on Jul 29, 2009 10:10 AM PDT up reply actions  

Logic:

Everyone gets ripped off when they get MLB-ready pitchers. Therefore, overpaying for an MLB-ready pitcher is ok.

by abender20 on Jul 29, 2009 10:11 AM PDT up reply actions  

Also

subject line

Try not to take me too seriously

by calim on Jul 29, 2009 10:13 AM PDT up reply actions  

This always bothers me.

If everyone in baseball thinks they need pitching, then they’re missing the point. If all the teams you’re facing have the same “problems” with their pitching staff, it’s not really a problem, because everyone’s in the same boat.

by Teej on Jul 29, 2009 10:23 AM PDT up reply actions  

This is why I don't like it.

Wilson falls into the same category for me; he was a nice second option at SS because his cost should have been low.

by Aaron Campeau on Jul 29, 2009 10:10 AM PDT up reply actions  

Current minor league stats

Just a quick look at recent AAA stats.
Date OPP W L ERA SV IP H ER BB SO
Totals 2 2 0.96 0 37.1 28 4 13 47

by Stripesjr on Jul 29, 2009 10:08 AM PDT reply actions  

Snell?

My Mariners blog - SodoMojo Twitter Feed, Fuck the fucking Angels!

by gregrabble on Jul 29, 2009 10:09 AM PDT up reply actions  

Yeah

K/9: 11.3
BB/9: 3.1
Averaging 6.1 innings over 6 starts. (I don’t know where to get the good stats for the minors.)

more on Yuni

by yuniform on Jul 29, 2009 10:12 AM PDT up reply actions  

He's also doing this as a 27 year old.

It’s not like he’s a prospect dominating AAA.

FUCK THE ANGELS! FUCK THE ANGELS! FUCK THE ANGELS!

by Goose on Jul 29, 2009 10:12 AM PDT up reply actions  

Yeah, but it means he should be in the majors.

He’s not a AAAA pitcher. He just was stuck in a bad situation.

more on Yuni

by yuniform on Jul 29, 2009 10:17 AM PDT up reply actions  

Not JJ Hardy awesome

And that bat isn’t going to be pretty in Safeco…

by tait644 on Jul 29, 2009 10:10 AM PDT reply actions  

Acquiring 31 year olds for 1 year isn't a huge deal

Hating Jack Wilson is a bizarre thing to do, especially if Pitt are paying for him

by Graham MacAree on Jul 29, 2009 10:14 AM PDT up reply actions  

Which will be sorted out eventually I imagine

For now we don’t have a 2010 shortstop issue and we’ll probably be contending

by Graham MacAree on Jul 29, 2009 10:17 AM PDT up reply actions  

thank you Z

All I wanted was a SS instead of the .170ish BA we had yesterday. This was not a bad deal at all. And if those three prospects do average, then we’re still looking at a fair deal.

by A Steamy Day in Cleveland on Jul 29, 2009 11:58 AM PDT up reply actions  

I kinda wish I was still sleeping.

You got slurved!

The M's are why the suicide rates are so high in the PNW and Japan.

by Slurvey on Jul 29, 2009 10:11 AM PDT reply actions  

The Pirates didn't care that much if he got injured.

Also, we couldn’t without being left in a very bad position.

FUCK THE ANGELS!

by Fuckmikereilly on Jul 29, 2009 10:14 AM PDT up reply actions  

Not unhappy...

Just curious to know what else is in the mix as far as trades go…I’d be shocked if we’re done now.

by Omerta on Jul 29, 2009 10:15 AM PDT up reply actions  

Snell is fine

But Wilson is a pretty shoddy patch.

Not even Mighty Putty.

by tait644 on Jul 29, 2009 10:14 AM PDT up reply actions  

ZiPS

gives Wilson a .294 wOBA for the rest of the year. Not sure how much that would drop moving to the AL and Safeco. Is .280 too low? Cedeno’s projected wOBA? .284. Can Wison’s glove save that many runs to make more than a marginal improvement?

I guess I was also hoping to have a long-term answer at SS out of this whole thing.

by tait644 on Jul 29, 2009 10:20 AM PDT up reply actions  

He's a league average shortstop

He’s a pretty huge upgrade on the 2009 team, probably on the order of 3 wins

by Graham MacAree on Jul 29, 2009 10:15 AM PDT up reply actions   1 recs

What I don't like about the "3 win upgrade" talk..

Yes he’s a pretty substantial upgrade over Cedeno, but he had been performing below replacement level this season. Doesn’t the whole concept of replacement level state that we should value Wilson based on what he can provide us above replacement level, rather than above Cedeno?

Or would this year be some sort of exception due to the cupboards being extremely bare at SS?

by CKel on Jul 29, 2009 10:55 AM PDT up reply actions  

Cedeno is our starting SS

any upgrade is based on how much better he is than Ronny, not how much better he is relative to any arbitrary point

by seattlebruin on Jul 29, 2009 10:56 AM PDT up reply actions  

I'm saying

If Cedeno was performing below replacement level, what stopped GMZ from going out and acquiring a replacement level SS before this trade ever happened? Was it simply the hope that Cedeno would improve? Or is the replacement level being based on years past and the only freely available talent at SS this year actually graded out as being below replacement level?

by CKel on Jul 29, 2009 11:18 AM PDT up reply actions  

Potentially

Snell is far from a guarantee.

by Jeff Sullivan on Jul 29, 2009 10:14 AM PDT up reply actions  

It's anticlimactic because I was hoping for the holes to be patched by Brignac/Kazmir.

Honestly, I like the two acquisitions we ended up with but I was decidedly underwhelmed.

Fuck Anaheim.

by Eyeball Kid on Jul 29, 2009 10:20 AM PDT up reply actions  

Hmm

This is hardly statistical, just a way to think about it that makes me less queasy…

We traded Betancourt for an A-ball pitcher and a AA-ball pitcher. That’s roughly equivalent to 3 A-ball pitchers, so it’s slightly the same as trading Betancourt, Clement, :(edeno for Wilson and Snell. That sounds a lot better, given that Betancourt is a known (worthless) quantity.

I don’t think we’ll ever give up 5 players in a trade again without evoking nervous recollections of the Bedard deal. It’s become an unlucky number methinks.

IF I WAS MANAGER I'D HAVE A FIST FIGHT WITH YUNI RIGHT NOW AND KNOCK HIS FUCKING MONKEY HEAD CLEAN OFF (~EM)

by seattlecougar on Jul 29, 2009 10:14 AM PDT reply actions  

Also, this doesn't sound right.

“We traded Betancourt for an A-ball pitcher and a AA-ball pitcher. That’s roughly equivalent to 3 A-ball pitchers.”

I don’t think this is the case.

more on Yuni

by yuniform on Jul 29, 2009 10:21 AM PDT up reply actions  

Like I said, hardly statistical

But how many guys perform at A-ball and fizzle out at AA? Roughly half? Figure one of the three we gave up doesn’t pan out at that level, and we’re more or less in the same boat.

Suppose I could have looked up the numbers for the 5 guys in question.

IF I WAS MANAGER I'D HAVE A FIST FIGHT WITH YUNI RIGHT NOW AND KNOCK HIS FUCKING MONKEY HEAD CLEAN OFF (~EM)

by seattlecougar on Jul 29, 2009 10:24 AM PDT up reply actions  

Has anyone seen this little gem from Ian Snell?

In an interview with ESPN 1250’s Ken Laird, Pirate pitcher Ian Snell was asked about his off-season plans. Laird asked if Snell planned on staying around the city.
Snell’s response?

“I would never be caught living in Pittsburgh. It’s not my type of city.”

He’s got character! I like that.

"I have two normal feet and I can't see the slightest God-damned reason why anybody should stare at them."

by ImaginaryRomances on Jul 29, 2009 10:15 AM PDT reply actions   2 recs

x

I have friends who spent a summer doing an internship in Pittsburgh and said they were pleasantly surprised by the city. I think it has really improved over the last several years.

by alon91 on Jul 29, 2009 10:29 AM PDT up reply actions  

Shame about all the Steelers and Penguins fans.

In fact, my sig was originally going to read ‘Fuck Anaheim & Pittsburgh’ but I figured it didn’t really apply to a basebaall blog as I sort of nothing the Pirates.

Fuck Anaheim.

by Eyeball Kid on Jul 29, 2009 10:34 AM PDT up reply actions  

Zduriencik
“This was an opportunity for us to acquire a veteran shortstop, a former All-Star player, with leadership qualities and above average defensive skills,’’ Mariners GM Jack Zduriencik said in a press release. "As we move forward over the next few years it is nice to know that we have solidified the shortstop position,

“We also acquired Ian Snell, a talented pitcher with Major League experience who now has an opportunity re-start his career after a very successful re-assignment in Indianapolis.”

Larry Stone

by ThundaPC on Jul 29, 2009 10:17 AM PDT reply actions  

"Next few years"

Anyone else think an extension might already be in the works here? Even with the club option, Wilson’s only signed through next year…

IF I WAS MANAGER I'D HAVE A FIST FIGHT WITH YUNI RIGHT NOW AND KNOCK HIS FUCKING MONKEY HEAD CLEAN OFF (~EM)

by seattlecougar on Jul 29, 2009 10:18 AM PDT up reply actions  

I'd consider throwing him a 2 year extension

Buy out next year’s option and add him for 2011 at 10-12 million over 2? The Pirates offered him an 8M, 2 year extension and he shot it down… How many SS are better than Wilson (even with his projected age-related decline) over that period? I wouldn’t mind locking him in for another year at that price, especially when we’re almost certain to pay him over 8 next year.

IF I WAS MANAGER I'D HAVE A FIST FIGHT WITH YUNI RIGHT NOW AND KNOCK HIS FUCKING MONKEY HEAD CLEAN OFF (~EM)

by seattlecougar on Jul 29, 2009 10:23 AM PDT up reply actions  

No reason to talk extension until you have to

Wilson’s not a special player and there are other players out there we could get.

by Jeff Sullivan on Jul 29, 2009 10:24 AM PDT up reply actions  

Washburn out?

Did I miss something?

Formerly Mariners124M... Username was sorta bland, so I'm changin it up

by BQueezy on Jul 29, 2009 10:21 AM PDT up reply actions  

Insinuation.

Jack’s quote leads me to believe he’ll be directly inserted into the rotation, likely in place of a soon to be traded Washburn.

by Omerta on Jul 29, 2009 10:22 AM PDT up reply actions  

Bedard?

Am I missing something or isn’t that the more immediate slot?

FUCK THE ANGELS!

by Fuckmikereilly on Jul 29, 2009 10:24 AM PDT up reply actions  

Hernandez

RRS, Olsen, Vargas, Snell, is my presumptive stab at the rotation.

by Omerta on Jul 29, 2009 10:26 AM PDT up reply actions  

Can I add BranyAn in here as well?

I see it spelt BranyOn all too often and it really fucks me off.

Fuck Anaheim.

by Eyeball Kid on Jul 29, 2009 10:31 AM PDT up reply actions  

That looks really sad

Racer X. You have to love those amarillo hops.

p.s. fuck you angels

p.p.s. geoff baker is an idiot

by InSpokane on Jul 29, 2009 10:26 AM PDT up reply actions  

Jose Vidro was a former all-star

Defense is great but is Wilson likely to do any better than a .300 wOBA next year?

De Gutibus non disputandum est

by Bearskin Rugburn on Jul 29, 2009 10:20 AM PDT up reply actions  

Then I'm pretty OK with this

At least we’ve got LaFromboise

De Gutibus non disputandum est

by Bearskin Rugburn on Jul 29, 2009 10:22 AM PDT up reply actions  

Now that I step back from "OMG WHY NO BRIGNAC" I rather like this deal.

I hate giving up Pribanec and Lorin, like everyone here, but I still like it.

by kentcheesehead on Jul 29, 2009 10:19 AM PDT reply actions  

Look at it this way

Would you guys trade Clement and Adcock for Snell? What about Cedeno, Lorin and Pribanec for Wilson?

me so cool

by Humongo on Jul 29, 2009 10:22 AM PDT reply actions  

Apprently the Pirates are putting in a signigicant amount of cash into the deal

says Dejan Kovacevic via twitter

So if you’re replacing Cedeno (-.7 WAR) with Wilson, who has 2 WAR on the season (derived basically solely from his defense), and the Pirates are covering most of the cost, it’s not that bad.

Plus, Ian Snell did this. I mean, holy crap.

by Pat Andriola on Jul 29, 2009 10:31 AM PDT reply actions  

He also walked 4 in a game and 5 in a game

I’m not convinced he’s fixed yet.

FUCK THE ANGELS!

by Fuckmikereilly on Jul 29, 2009 10:38 AM PDT up reply actions  

shut out the brewers

with the exception of a Gallardo HR. It was also a game with high emotions due to beanballing in an earlier game etc. and he was fired up.

by JetSam on Jul 29, 2009 10:44 AM PDT up reply actions  

Two things:

He set a Victory Field record!
And why is the Pirates AAA team called the Indians?

more on Yuni

by yuniform on Jul 29, 2009 10:46 AM PDT up reply actions  

I liked Ian Snell until I realized his name used to be Ian Oquendo

That made me think he was dirty and smelled

Try not to take me too seriously

by calim on Jul 29, 2009 10:38 AM PDT reply actions  

I dunno

“Snell” doesn’t necessarily conjure up images of Irish Spring.

by Omerta on Jul 29, 2009 10:41 AM PDT up reply actions  

Ian Snell's contract:

08:$0.75M, 09:$3M, 10:$4.25M, 11:$6.75M club option, 12:$9.25M club option

I really dislike this trade unless the Pirates are sending like $12M to us

by Matthew on Jul 29, 2009 10:40 AM PDT reply actions  

Bottom line:

No sir, I don’t like it.

You’d better do something good with Washburn Jack.

FUCK THE ANGELS! FUCK THE ANGELS! FUCK THE ANGELS!

by Goose on Jul 29, 2009 10:45 AM PDT reply actions  

Hahah!

Brock just asked Z about Snell’s suicidal episode and he says “well, this weekend I had similiar thoughts.”

by Omerta on Jul 29, 2009 10:47 AM PDT reply actions  

Hmm..

“12:42pm: Ken Rosenthal and Jon Paul Morosi report that the sides have agreed to a deal that sends Cliff Lee and Ben Francisco to Philly for Jason Knapp, Carlos Carrasco, Jason Donald and Lou Marson. The teams still have to examine medical records for the deal to go through.”

Interesting.

by Pessimistic Optimist on Jul 29, 2009 10:51 AM PDT reply actions  

So we've traded

JJ Putz, Sean Green, Luis Valbuena, Jeremy Reed, Jeff Clement, Brett Lorin, Aaron Pribinac, and Nathan Adcock for

Franklin Gutierrez, Endy Chavez, Jason Vargas, Garret Olson, Jack Wilson, Ian Snell, Maikel Cleto, and Ezequiel Carrera

That looks worse all the sudden

Determined, Jonesing Commentor | Proud proprietor of Wyomingroutes.org & Washingtonhighways.org

by Corco on Jul 29, 2009 10:55 AM PDT reply actions  

You forgot :(edeno

#34 Forever
Plugging the upside since 2006.
Never give up, never surrender!

by TheOptimist on Jul 29, 2009 10:56 AM PDT up reply actions  

No I didn't

Determined, Jonesing Commentor | Proud proprietor of Wyomingroutes.org & Washingtonhighways.org

by Corco on Jul 29, 2009 10:57 AM PDT up reply actions  

Ah. My mistake.

#34 Forever
Plugging the upside since 2006.
Never give up, never surrender!

by TheOptimist on Jul 29, 2009 10:57 AM PDT up reply actions  

What about Carp?

Wherever I go, that's where I am.

by Rich Langford on Jul 29, 2009 10:58 AM PDT up reply actions  

Helps a little.

Did Cleto ever start pitching?

Wherever I go, that's where I am.

by Rich Langford on Jul 29, 2009 11:00 AM PDT up reply actions  

Really?

I wonder when they’re going to tell me that.

by davidcameron on Jul 29, 2009 10:58 AM PDT up reply actions  

Is that what it was?

I heard something about getting Dave on later, but the radio’s in another room.

by BrianL on Jul 29, 2009 11:00 AM PDT up reply actions  

They didn't say he'd be on for sure.

It was right around when Salk was talking about receiving an email from Dave earlier saying we overpaid, but they both still like it anyway, and then he said something about trying to get him on later.

by Omerta on Jul 29, 2009 11:06 AM PDT up reply actions  

I wonder if the M's will now trade Washburn at all.

Supposedly he wants to stick around Seattle, and Hernandez, Snell, Washburn would be an interesting nucleus for 2010 if they resigned him. I only say this because this move seems concentrated on the next 1-2 years.

#34 Forever
Plugging the upside since 2006.
Never give up, never surrender!

by TheOptimist on Jul 29, 2009 11:04 AM PDT reply actions  

Oh that would be good

Resign him at his highest value for a prohibitive contract. That’s worked out great before.

by manifestus on Jul 29, 2009 11:07 AM PDT up reply actions  

Obviously you wouldn't do it if you thought Wash was going to try to soak you.

Like I said, if he theoretically WANTS to stick around, 2/14, 3/20 might be a possibility. Not bad for a veteran pitcher.

#34 Forever
Plugging the upside since 2006.
Never give up, never surrender!

by TheOptimist on Jul 29, 2009 11:10 AM PDT up reply actions  

But what other motivation could this trade possibly have?

You don’t trade for Jack Wilson and give away all those young pitchers if you’re building for the future. This says the M’s are taking a shot at next year.

#34 Forever
Plugging the upside since 2006.
Never give up, never surrender!

by TheOptimist on Jul 29, 2009 11:14 AM PDT up reply actions  

I'm with you on the building for the future.

There’s no way Z thinks we’re going to win it all next year, right?

Fuck the Angels. If you see this, add a fuck to your signature. This is a fucking experiment.

by PDXTai on Jul 29, 2009 11:15 AM PDT up reply actions  

I think he sees an opening. The Angels lose a number of key pieces this

offseason and there’s now way they keep everybody, the A’s are a few years away from competing again. The Rangers are a threat, but life’s risky. Could be Z is thinking if he can get 5 to 10 games better he has an excellent shot at the division, and anything can happen in the playoffs.

#34 Forever
Plugging the upside since 2006.
Never give up, never surrender!

by TheOptimist on Jul 29, 2009 11:21 AM PDT up reply actions  

Maybe we can flip him for Moyer at the deadline then.

Fuck the Angels. If you see this, add a fuck to your signature. This is a fucking experiment.

by PDXTai on Jul 29, 2009 11:43 AM PDT up reply actions  

So the M's traded 3 Single A prospects, Jeff Clement and :(edeno

To get a guy who’ll be paid a 20 million over those years if they decide to keep him around and a half year of Jack Wilson? (No reason to get his option if they’re not making a serious run in 2010.) Not to mention said pitcher blew up the last time he played in the majors. I guess it works, but it seems like there would have been cheaper ways to get a player with as many questions as Snell.

#34 Forever
Plugging the upside since 2006.
Never give up, never surrender!

by TheOptimist on Jul 29, 2009 11:54 AM PDT up reply actions  

It is interesting that Snell's value seemed so low according to reports and yet obviously it wasn't that low.

You’d think the M’s could’ve acquired Wilson alone for Clement and maybe 1 of those pitchers.

by Kenny Knows Sports on Jul 29, 2009 11:56 AM PDT up reply actions  

And a week or so before he was traded

people were saying that the As would have to throw in tons of cash to move Matt Holliday and still not expect much in return.

by Matthew on Jul 29, 2009 12:11 PM PDT up reply actions  

I am thinking the same thing.

Recall Washburn, when asked about re-signing with Scott Boras as his agent, said, “he works for me”.

The team seems to have developed great clubhouse chemistry. If guys like Washburn, Beltre, and Branyan are willing to be reasonable with their contract demands, I suspect the FO will want to keep this team together.

by saltydog75 on Jul 29, 2009 11:12 AM PDT up reply actions  

It's not that I'm upset about this trade

I just expected Jack to do better.

If this was Bavasi, we’d be happier.

by fresnofan on Jul 29, 2009 11:05 AM PDT reply actions  

Our expectations are so high for Jack.

Which I think they deserve to be.

But seriously, if this was Bavasi…he wouldnt want Snell. He only wants the old dudes.

by fresnofan on Jul 29, 2009 11:07 AM PDT up reply actions  

I think that's a fair point.

I’m definately giving him the benefit of the doubt as time passes here..

by Omerta on Jul 29, 2009 11:10 AM PDT up reply actions  

Yeah, I'm going through Gillick's tenure w/ the M's.

Besides the Martin trade, there’s also:
Jeff Cirillo (Brian Fuentes, Jose Paniagua and Dennis Stark),
Ismael Valdez (Derrick Van Dusen and Jermaine Clark),
Randy Winn (Antonio Perez and Lou Piniella),
Rey Sanchez (Kenny Kelly)
and I probably missed some. Conclusion: we’ve taken in a lot of lame veterans.

more on Yuni

by yuniform on Jul 29, 2009 11:23 AM PDT up reply actions  

Yeah I missed that

I was searching B-R for trades. They say:
“Received Jose Offerman from the Boston Red Sox as part of a conditional deal.”
Translated, does that mean we paid for the privilege of having Offerman?

more on Yuni

by yuniform on Jul 29, 2009 11:27 AM PDT up reply actions  

I hated this trade at first

But I’m excited about it now. I think most of us overvalued Clement. I’m wishing and hoping Snell does good but I can’t shake the feeling its going to be a lost cause.

I worry about Ichiro though. You could tell he was nervous around Shelton, and now that Wilson is going to be on the team…I just don’t know if he can deal with it!

Carlos Silvelite

by OceanBird on Jul 29, 2009 11:12 AM PDT reply actions  

What are the chances of a follow-up move?

Like Wilson + Washburn + Morrow for JJ Hardy or some such?
It seems that Z is going after defense first, pitching second, hitting third. I think that makes sense based on the current market, but I’d still like to see another move.

Fuck the Angels. If you see this, add a fuck to your signature. This is a fucking experiment.

by PDXTai on Jul 29, 2009 11:13 AM PDT reply actions  

I was mentally prepared

for something I’d be gleaming about.

I lost sleep for Jack Wilson? >:(

by fresnofan on Jul 29, 2009 11:13 AM PDT reply actions  

I can imagine the Mariners commercials next season

WELCOME BACK TO ANOTHER EDITION OF MARINERS JACKASS! I’M YOUR HOST, JACK WILSON!

Carlos Silvelite

by OceanBird on Jul 29, 2009 11:29 AM PDT up reply actions  

Until Beltre comes back

at which point the left side of our infield will be fucking awesome, if only for a month or so

by Zack on Jul 29, 2009 11:31 AM PDT up reply actions  

I wonder how much it would take to re-sign him.

Honestly, I think a lot of teams still undervalue defense, which is what makes him so valuable. Given the direction this team is taking (pitching and defense), he’d fit right in, even though his RH bat isn’t perfect for Safeco.

by saltydog75 on Jul 29, 2009 11:34 AM PDT up reply actions  

Beltre is going someplace where weather like our current weather

is not considered an apocalyptic historic heat wave.

Wherever I go, that's where I am.

by Rich Langford on Jul 29, 2009 11:38 AM PDT up reply actions  

Just got back in after hearing about the trade earlier via text.

What bums me out the most is that we’re not getting any of the high-end shortstops. Somewhere, the Mariners need to significantly improve their offense. While Wilson over Cedano is certainly an improvement, it’s not the upgrade a JJ Hardy would have been.

Trading the three A-ball starters really hurts, too. I was a big fan of Lorin.

by katal on Jul 29, 2009 11:30 AM PDT reply actions  

DH and 2B could still be upgraded at some point

although I doubt DH is upgraded this year.

[DELETED ZOMG NO POLITICS]

by bluemax on Jul 29, 2009 11:31 AM PDT up reply actions  

Branyan to DH in 2010?

I have visions of Carp coming up to play 1B and Branyan turning into our DH. Crazy?

by saltydog75 on Jul 29, 2009 11:35 AM PDT up reply actions  

But....

Isn’t Branyan a better defender?

by arbeck77 on Jul 29, 2009 11:37 AM PDT up reply actions  

No idea

I just think Branyan fits in well here and would like to re-sign, but I think Carp’s a guy who is ready for the majors.

by saltydog75 on Jul 29, 2009 11:38 AM PDT up reply actions  

Branyan could play 3B next year though.

Giving you a Carp-Lopez-Wilson-Branyan infield and basically freeing Z up to go after nothing but pitching and a DH this offseason.

by Matthew on Jul 29, 2009 12:12 PM PDT up reply actions  

True, but that doesn't really sound like a move GMZ would make

it’s been pretty clear he likes guys who are plus defenders, and Branyan wouldn’t fit that bill at third.

Also, that assumes you can sign him to a reasonable contract after this season is over.

by seattlebruin on Jul 29, 2009 12:16 PM PDT up reply actions  

Obviously.

The fact that we were in discussions for three of them, and yet we ended up with Jack Wilson, is what disappoints me.

by katal on Jul 29, 2009 11:49 AM PDT up reply actions  

Judging by the highlight package on ESPN, Jack Wilson appears to be at his best when he's wildly off-balanced

I’ve never seen him play (except maybe in the all-star game), but all his highlight throws come with him falling off to one side. The same, sadly, is true for his at-bats, most of which don’t even show him hitting line drives.

more on Yuni

by yuniform on Jul 29, 2009 11:35 AM PDT reply actions  

I think Snell will be the interesting piece.

I wonder if Jack is turning the M’s into the Denver Broncos of baseball. i.e. build a great offensive line (the defense, in Safeco) and make average running backs (pitchers) look great so that you can trade them for more valuable pieces.

Ian Snell is now pitching on one of the best defenses is baseball, and it did just get better with Jack Wilson.

by Kenny Knows Sports on Jul 29, 2009 11:38 AM PDT reply actions  

I think Snell is the key to the trade. He has more god given talent then any of the players

we gave up. If he can get his stuff together with Wallace and Adair, he’s the best player in this trade and a valuable piece to the puzzle

by Rudy4three on Jul 29, 2009 11:43 AM PDT up reply actions  

Yesterday.

"Ever tried? Ever failed? No matter. Try again. Fail again. Fail better." - Samuel Beckett http://mvn.com/marinersminors/

by JY on Jul 29, 2009 11:39 AM PDT up reply actions  

I thought it was today, as well.

“TNTmariners The Mariners signed second-round pick Rich Poythress officially today. Met him, big guy, bone-crushing handshake, reports of 700K bonus 2 minutes ago from web”

Divish says today, as well.

by Garces on Jul 29, 2009 2:44 PM PDT up reply actions  

Officially maybe

It came out early yesterday

by Matthew on Jul 29, 2009 3:01 PM PDT up reply actions  

I got my thoughts down.

I’ll spare you the tl; dr/LLLJ by not reposting it, but mediocre trades bring out my existential side.

I don’t know what provokes this shit. Someone better get the super soaker.

"Ever tried? Ever failed? No matter. Try again. Fail again. Fail better." - Samuel Beckett http://mvn.com/marinersminors/

by JY on Jul 29, 2009 11:40 AM PDT reply actions  

I think this trade would make a whole lot more sense if we were 3 games back or less.

However, the trade could still work out to basically being just Jeff Clement for Ian Snell and Jack Wilson and they are both essentially free for 2009.

It sounds to me like Lorin and Pribanic were still long shots to be successful starting pitchers in the majors?

by Kenny Knows Sports on Jul 29, 2009 11:44 AM PDT reply actions  

Well

take the money from the Pirates and give it to Dustin Ackley to sign. :)

by saltydog75 on Jul 29, 2009 11:57 AM PDT up reply actions  

Balentian traded

to the Reds for a RP. Seems like a good move.

by saltydog75 on Jul 29, 2009 11:59 AM PDT reply actions  

Rhodes!

You got slurved!

The M's are why the suicide rates are so high in the PNW and Japan.

by Slurvey on Jul 29, 2009 12:00 PM PDT up reply actions  

Really?

My Mariners blog - SodoMojo Twitter Feed, Fuck the fucking Angels!

by gregrabble on Jul 29, 2009 12:02 PM PDT up reply actions  

Well he was DFA'd the other day.

If we get anything better than organizational filler for him, I’m content.

by katal on Jul 29, 2009 12:03 PM PDT up reply actions  

Not really

Manuel is a non-prospect type, a random, forgettable big-league ready reliever

He’s not really depth at all except bullpen depth.

by seattlebruin on Jul 29, 2009 12:09 PM PDT up reply actions  

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