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Prince Felix Overrated? Felix Hernandez Has the Worst ARSA of the AL AllStar Starters

***UPDATE***

The post below has received a mixed response, and I want to apologize if I have been moving too fast for any of you.  I also want to say that Dave Cameron, Nate Silver, Tom Tango and  I do not get paid to make posts like these.  We do it for free because we enjoy contributing to the interchange of ideas around us.  So please, take our posts for what they are:  just the opinion of one person out there in the blogosphere.  I did not ask to attract a following, it just sort of happened.

Secondly, even if you are not yet on board with ARSA (described below), at the very least you must concede that Wins/(Wins+Losses) is a useful statistic that we should all consider.

Thirdly, please note that I submitted this to The Seattle Times and they denied publication.  If you feel strongly they made a mistake, as I do, please let them know.

***END UPDATE***

Felix Hernandez is a good pitcher, there is no doubt about it.  And I do not want to start a controversy here by suggesting that he is not a quality contributor to our big league roster.  But is Felix a great pitcher?  Is he a king?

While I have a reputation on this blog for using advanced sabermetric statistics, I want to illustrate the fact that sometimes more basic statistical categories, when used with sophistication, can help debunk common myths.  In this post, I will use a dataset available to all of us to demonstrate that Felix Hernandez, while an above average pitcher, does not belong in Cy Young discussion this year, and probably should not have made the AllStar team.

The statistics I use here are available to all (so anyone should feel free to check my work for accuracy).  The crude data is individual pitcher data in the following categories: wins, losses, total starts and run support.  All of these can be obtained from a website called Fangraphs.

We all know that wins, despite their ubiquitous use by commentators and sports writers to determine Cy Young winners and AllStars, do not tell the whole story.  For example, a pitcher on a strong offensive team might accrue a large number of wins just because his team scores a lot of runs.  As anyone who pays attention to this blog probably understands, we can isolate those pitchers who have better or worse "luck" in terms of offense, by examing a statistic called Average Run Support.

But Average Run Support is a limited statistic.  There are a lot more "luck" factors that impact a pitcher's ability to win games.  For example, a pitcher might have a superior defense behind him or might play for a team with a talented bullpen that does not blow saves.  These factors contribute significantly to pitcher wins.  While stats like FIP or tRA help to isolate pitching performance from luck, they are imperfect.  I would like to propose another statistic that, while simple, builds off the work of others with "Average Run Support" and helps to fill in more of the picture.

The statistic is: "Average Run Support Against" or ARSA.  ARSA measures the impact of a pitcher's defense and bullpen in an effort to control for other "luck" factors that help a pitcher win games.  ARSA is measured by, for a starting pitcher X, summing the run support of the opposing pitcher during each of X's starts, then dividing by X's total number of starts.

The following charts the ARSA of all the starting pitchers for the American League AllStar team on the X axis.  The Y axis charts a statistic that takes the total number of wins for each pitcher and divides that by the sum of the total wins and losses of that pitcher, which yields a decimal number between 0 and 1.

Rsa_medium

 

As you can see, Felix Hernandez ranks as the luckiest of all the American League AllStar starters with a 2.95 ARSA.  This means he has benefitted from significant contributions from his bullpen and defense.  The quartet of Tim Wakefield, Roy Halladay, Mark Buehrle and Josh Beckett have similar or better Wins/(Wins+Losses) than Felix, and yet have reached those heights despite significantly higher ARSAs (because ARSA correlates inversely with luck, a higher ARSA is good).  While Justin Verlander and Edwin Jackson have lower Wins/(Wins+Losses) than their Allstar teammates, they got there despite significantly lower ARSAs (4.32 and 3.78 respectively).  And Zack Greinke is having a tremendous season despite playing for the Royals, which has helped him to a  3.33 ARSA (almost a half a run higher than Felix).

I want to reiterate that I don't think that Felix is a bad pitcher.  His scouting reports are very strong, and he would likely be doing well even if he did not have quite so much luck on his side.  But there is no denying that he plays on a team with a solid defense and a good bullpen, and that has helped him significantly this year.  We should celebrate Felix's success this year, but let's not delude ourselves.  He is not quite in the same class as his fellow AL AllStars.  Not yet anyway.

14 recs  |  Comment 160 comments

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I agree.

The Kansas City Royals should hire you as a statistical consultant. They could use someone with your lack of outside-the-box player evaluation skills.

by Vatinius on Jul 18, 2009 5:03 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

Um

So ARSA is the average run support for all opposing pitchers in their starts against Felix? Or is it average run support from all the opposing pitchers in all their starts that year?

Im trying to wrap my head around whats going on here.

by DCMariner on Jul 18, 2009 5:07 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

Think about how you compute average run support,

this is just the opposite. Very simple. If you have a pitcher X, then in each of X’s starts, just figure out the run support of the opposing pitcher in that start. Sum those up and divide by total starts by X.

by Attractive Nuisance on Jul 18, 2009 5:23 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Hmmmm

So if pitcher X is really amazing, you’d expect him to hold the opposing team to very few runs. So you’d expect the ARSA to be low. So good pitchers have low ARSAs. So this makes Felix not as good how?

by DCMariner on Jul 18, 2009 5:29 PM PDT up reply actions   3 recs

This post has nothing to do with Nike

Career Safeco Record: 6-1 (3 of which were started by Felix)

by Taylor H on Jul 18, 2009 5:31 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

It might.

Nike has a statistical department that might have interest.

by Attractive Nuisance on Jul 18, 2009 5:32 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Well wouldn't a good pitcher have a low ARSA

because as a good pitcher, he does not allow the opposing pitcher to have very much run support?

Ichiro is my uncle

by twags on Jul 19, 2009 8:55 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Well sure,

But you are not considering the luck factors that weigh in. For example, if Felix makes a terrible pitch and the hitters hits a line drive that is caught by the Mariners centerfielder Franklin Gutierrez, who is really responsible?

by Attractive Nuisance on Jul 19, 2009 8:58 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

I appreciate the X/Y graph

now can you find a way to add a Z axis? The games are played in 3-D, so should our analysis.

by Will Kier on Jul 18, 2009 5:24 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

I agree.

Felix’s stellar performance in the z-axis will surely make up for his lackluster x-axis. He was never much of an ARSE guy anyway.

by FlaskInSafeco on Jul 18, 2009 5:28 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

See my post below

I meant to reply to this post. But yes, I think the idea you propose is a helpful one. Thank you for the contribution.

by Attractive Nuisance on Jul 18, 2009 5:32 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Sorry about that,

but I hope to be linked to by a broader community. So, even if the traditional LL readership may be aware of Fangraphs, there may be others reading this post who need more background.

by Attractive Nuisance on Jul 18, 2009 5:30 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

It's fine.

Just don’t say things like this: “While I have a reputation on this blog for using advanced sabermetric statistics, I want to illustrate the fact that sometimes more basic statistical categories, when used with sophistication, can help debunk common myths.”

Career Safeco Record: 6-1 (3 of which were started by Felix)

by Taylor H on Jul 18, 2009 5:33 PM PDT up reply actions   1 recs

I don't think they know "extremely little"

I think they know a lot, but that does not mean that we cannot learn from each other. What is wrong with me trying to contribute? Isn’t that what this community is about?

by Attractive Nuisance on Jul 18, 2009 5:38 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

What is wrong with that sentence?

The grammar is perfect. And there are many here who would vouch for my reputation.

by Attractive Nuisance on Jul 18, 2009 5:37 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

The issue, as I already stated, is that you seem to think everyone here is a dull midget who failed kindergarten (sorry Robert!)

The community certainly appreciates your take on the M’s, but you really ought to have read the site and its comments for a month or so before posting and making several vastly incorrect assumptions about the general knowledge of the commenters.

Career Safeco Record: 6-1 (3 of which were started by Felix)

by Taylor H on Jul 18, 2009 5:46 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Look Taylor H

I really do not appreciate your attitude. I spent a long time on my analysis and I even made a graph to illustrate my point. I took great pains so that readers like you can improve your understanding. I do not force you to read my posts. They are there for your benefit.

Honestly, if I could do the entire post over again, I would not change a thing. While you may already know what Fangraphs is, if I am linked to by, for example, Geoff Baker’s Mariners blog, then his readers may not know about the website. It really does not inconvenience you much to have to read a little more of an extended explanation. Just skip over the paragraphs that you already understand and read the ones that help you.

by Attractive Nuisance on Jul 18, 2009 5:50 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

My apologies, Attractive Nuisance.

In the future, I will refrain from passing unkind judgment on your work. Perhaps I will even rec one of your posts. By the way, just for the benefit of uninformed users, “rec” means “recommend,” as in to express a positive recognition toward another commenter’s post. If any readers have any further questions, I would be happy to write a fanpost explaining how to rec a post in 3-D.

Career Safeco Record: 6-1 (3 of which were started by Felix)

by Taylor H on Jul 18, 2009 5:54 PM PDT up reply actions   2 recs

A few recs would be much appreciated,

and we can forget this disagreement ever happened. I think we both respect each other.

by Attractive Nuisance on Jul 18, 2009 5:58 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Wow.

Andrew Raycroft for backup? Does not compute.

by Woodinville_12thMan on Jul 19, 2009 6:06 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

It might be useful to include FIP or tRA on the Z axis

Just to improve the usefulness of the graph. This should make clear that I am not anti-FIP or anti-tRA. We just need to use a broad swath of all these statistics, including ARSA, to complete the picture.

by Attractive Nuisance on Jul 18, 2009 5:29 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

RJ wants to know what fangraphs is.

Career Safeco Record: 6-1 (3 of which were started by Felix)

by Taylor H on Jul 18, 2009 6:04 PM PDT up reply actions   1 recs

I want to rec this like 30 times.

You’re just being so helpful! =)

50!

by joof on Jul 18, 2009 6:12 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

I can't believe my response to this comment was deleted.

I will not argue balls and strikes, but I will walk back to the dugout shaking my head and rolling my eyes.

by Attractive Nuisance on Jul 21, 2009 2:27 PM PDT up reply actions   1 recs

Aha

Hey, no offense, I’m just trying to learn. Just saw the missing post, never received an explanation. I have read that rule, but I did not realize its breadth. Now I know. I’ll be good.

by Attractive Nuisance on Jul 21, 2009 2:47 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

The poster is named "Attractive Nuisance," for god's sake. Come on people, it's kind of obvious.

Although yet again: not funny. This sort of “humor” is not humor per se, it’s the internet equivalent of bear-baiting — amusing oneself by teasing/tormenting others.

I don't know how to stop.

by esoteric on Jul 18, 2009 6:48 PM PDT reply actions   1 recs

Well...

…the comments are kinda funny.

by Attractive Nuisance on Jul 18, 2009 6:48 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Agreed.

The schtick is wearing thin.

Even the game threads have been terrible lately because everyone is trying to come up with the next clever comment.

by Wilder. on Jul 18, 2009 6:51 PM PDT up reply actions   2 recs

for what its worth

I thought this series has been an amusing take on sabermetric posts, particularly referring us to Fangraphs for these advanced “win”, “loss”, and “total start” statistics.

by Will Kier on Jul 18, 2009 7:16 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

aw, you ruined it

The only way to make extremely dry humor like this work is to be in character 100% of the time. See “Novice” over on Geoff Baker’s blog.

by Spoomeister on Jul 19, 2009 6:15 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

esoteric ruined it

De Gutibus non disputandum est

by Bearskin Rugburn on Jul 19, 2009 6:20 AM PDT up reply actions   3 recs

Hmm
There’s something deeply anti-social about it.

There is nothing anti-social, however, about crapping on what somebody else has put a lot of thought and effort into and posted in a public forum, which most everyone else seems to be enjoying. No, moralistic nitpicking is a constructive exercise.

De Gutibus non disputandum est

by Bearskin Rugburn on Jul 18, 2009 7:11 PM PDT up reply actions   1 recs

Wholeheartedly agree

This isn’t about bamboozling Taylor H. This is just very good parody, much better than most I’ve seen here.

De Gutibus non disputandum est

by Bearskin Rugburn on Jul 18, 2009 7:13 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

I thought it was pretty good

didn’t even notice the spray paint in MS paint at first.

by CKremer on Jul 18, 2009 9:57 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Perhaps this will be the comment that I ban you for instead

These posts are hilarious and the reactions only add to it.

by Robert on Jul 19, 2009 10:28 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Midget jokes always deserve a rec

Even if the small/large penis thing is overrated. It’s only small if it’s under 3 feet long and has less girth than a football.

by chrisisasavage on Jul 20, 2009 10:18 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

not 'humor'

I’d strongly disagree. It doesn’t require any victims at all to be funny.

My only worry is that it becomes too frequent or too much. Once is enough to get the joke. After that it’s just the same joke over and over….

by Snuffleupagus on Jul 18, 2009 7:26 PM PDT up reply actions   1 recs

Yeah I'm in the same boat.

The first one was funny, it even had me going for a bit until I started reading the comments. This one is just kinda meh.

The Rise of a Superstar:Justin Upton-.398wOBA, 21 years old.

by Goose on Jul 19, 2009 12:56 AM PDT up reply actions   2 recs

Disagree

It’s funny without even reading the comments. I don’t need to laugh at a “target” to find the humor in his post.

by Snowman1025 on Jul 18, 2009 9:15 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

I enjoy it.

...and now I'm here

by Librocrat on Jul 19, 2009 5:08 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Could someone explain to me what is going on?

2009 Safeco Field Record: 5-0 ; Overall Safeco Field Record: 9-4

by Fin on Jul 18, 2009 9:11 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

I'm not sure there's anything of value going on.

It wasn’t serious, it wasn’t funny, it was pretty much a waste of time.

by Sinking Away on Jul 18, 2009 9:26 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

I'm a damn idiot, that's what.

Career Safeco Record: 6-1 (3 of which were started by Felix)

by Taylor H on Jul 18, 2009 10:08 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Don't beat yourself up.

He had me going for quite a while too.

Thug Life

by Slow Country on Jul 18, 2009 10:10 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

I'm just pissed off. I used LL really sparsely to keep from making stupid moves like this and now I ruined it yet again.

Maybe another week will do me some good….

Career Safeco Record: 6-1 (3 of which were started by Felix)

by Taylor H on Jul 18, 2009 10:12 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

:)

Kudos for being a good sport. And honestly, if you were really buying it, you showed excellent restraint.

by Attractive Nuisance on Jul 18, 2009 10:18 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

I was buying it

I’ve known a couple of schizophrenics in my day and you pegged it almost perfectly. Although, in this case, it was a fine line between harmless, goofy schizophrenic and a narcissistic idiot who has deluded himself into thinking he’s quite brilliant.

by Ike Clanton on Jul 19, 2009 7:33 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

I get it.

It’s a parody on Sabrmetrics. Very well played!

2009 Safeco Field Record: 5-0 ; Overall Safeco Field Record: 9-4

by Fin on Jul 18, 2009 11:59 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

By limiting runs against him

Felix is getting lucky, because in games that he pitches the other team isn’t scoring much.

...and now I'm here

by Librocrat on Jul 19, 2009 5:11 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

I mean where a starting pitcher parks his car of course.

If he gets a good spot, he will have better run support whereas if he is forced to park in the back of the lot, his teammates will make outs on purpose for his late arrival to the ballpark.

by hcoguy on Jul 18, 2009 11:50 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Felix's Illegal Handicap Parking Spot ERA, or ihpsERA, is excellent

But we all know that ERA is a flawed stat, and his ihpsFIP is typical of a number 2 starter, which is good, but not the ace we expect Felix to become.

...and now I'm here

by Librocrat on Jul 19, 2009 5:15 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Where do you fall?

De Gutibus non disputandum est

by Bearskin Rugburn on Jul 18, 2009 11:43 PM PDT up reply actions   1 recs

I'm not 12 so I'm under the retarded label...

Dammit… why aren’t there more groups?

You got slurved!

Hehehe Mark Reynolds is so awesome.

by Slurvey on Jul 19, 2009 5:11 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

"Good bullpen."

I stopped reading after that.

WELCOME TO THE ZONE.

by HHZ on Jul 19, 2009 5:24 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

So you want a prize?

“Good bullpen” appears in the second sentence of the last paragraph.

by Attractive Nuisance on Jul 20, 2009 2:23 PM PDT up reply actions   1 recs

More groundbreaking work.

I appreciate the effort.

"If I'm in a slump, I ask myself for advice." -Ichiro

by Big Jared on Jul 19, 2009 9:50 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

hey

this is just a wanker taking the piss.
why are people even listening to him.

AttractiveNuisance has the highest RMMPA – random meaningless meandering posts average.

his next post is probably going to be on ichiro being overrated or on gutierrez’s and branyan’s performances being helped by their good looks.

"In baseball, even the best hitters fail seven of ten times, and of those seven failures there are different reasons why. Some are personal failures, others are losses to the pitcher. You just get beat. In those personal failures, I felt I could have done better." Source: Baseball Digest (November 2002 Issue)

by switch11 on Jul 20, 2009 12:00 AM PDT reply actions   0 recs

Well...

switch11
joined Mar 26, 2008 last login Jul 19, 2009 posts 23 comments 45

seattle mariners fan in london

by Decatur on Jul 20, 2009 12:23 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

A few points.

1. Read all the comments in a thread before posting a such an ad-hominam attack. You just look misinformed right now.
2. Please capitalize and punctuate properly.
3. Glad to see the enthusiasm for Ichiro.
4. Gutierrez and Branyan’s performances are obviously helped by the fact that they are both gods of sex and can go all season long.

by Decatur on Jul 20, 2009 12:33 AM PDT up reply actions   2 recs

As long as you're correcting grammar,

hominem; third declension accusative. Come on dude. Also, those are all good points.

De Gutibus non disputandum est

by Bearskin Rugburn on Jul 20, 2009 6:30 AM PDT up reply actions   1 recs

Congratulations to Lookout Landing for de-valuing recs to the point of worthlessness

Now poor Robert is going to be forced to get 20,000 recs if he wants his own SBN blog.

by seattlebruin on Jul 20, 2009 10:54 AM PDT reply actions   0 recs

Robert ruining recs: this post ruining recs

Ronny :(edeno power hitter : Russell Branyan power hitter

by seattlebruin on Jul 21, 2009 2:56 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

This (and the other) post were hilarious

I think SB was referring to whoever goes through and recs every comment.

by Robert on Jul 22, 2009 8:45 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

This was such an absurd waste of time.

I was actually going to type a long refute as to why this was bull, then I continued thankfully reading the comments.

"Part, fools!
Put up your swords. You know not what you do."

by Fearless Frog on Jul 20, 2009 1:30 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

I think I speak for all of us when I say...

…I’d still like to see your long refutation about “why this was bull.”

While some of the previous commenters expressed some general anger that anyone would say something true about their beloved Felix Hernandez, nobody has made a compelling case that the conclusions I advocate are anything other than truthful. Also, please include a graph.

by Attractive Nuisance on Jul 20, 2009 1:56 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

I thought this was hilarious from start to finish.

Pitchers are often evaluated (for all-star selections and Cy Young awards) in terms of their wins.

It’s been common for quite some time to point out that the number of wins a pitcher gets is heavily influences by his run support. With less run support, he’s less likely ti win.

However, wins and losses is a zero-sum game; if the opposing pitcher gets the win, you can’t, so it would then (if you were analysing wins and losses) make sense to investigate factors that influence the opposing pither’s likelihood to collect wins. One of those things (as mentioned) is run support.

The run support granted the opposing pitcher has a very large impact on the opportunity for your pitcher to collect wins, and thus draw All-Star or Cy Young consideration.

It makes perfect, twisted sense.

I like using semi-colons; they make me feel smart.

by Llewdor on Jul 20, 2009 4:44 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

What seems to me like a big testament to the gloriousness of these posts...

…is that the first one motivated me to finally get around to creating an account (so that I could make a snarky comment on the first thread that I am now too unmotivated to post because of how much time has passed). Also, kudos on the graph; the team logos are a nice touch.

by sufferin.succotash on Jul 21, 2009 11:10 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

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