39-37, Game Notes
When you think about everything that happened, tonight's loss probably shouldn't have made me as upset as it did. The Mariners came in as significant underdogs. They were never in the lead. They didn't make Joba work as much as they could have. They didn't hit a lot of balls hard. They didn't get good pitching. They didn't play great defense. As valiant as their effort was, all game long it just felt like they were barely hanging in there, like their plan was to stay close long enough to get lucky. And in those sorts of games, it's hard to really build up your expectations. By all rights, I should've seen this loss coming a mile away. Hell, I did see this loss coming a mile away. But even given that certain degree of predictability, Cabrera's double off White in the eighth still made me get up and leave the room, and it's been a while since a Mariners game really got that deep under my skin.
I'm not sure why it did. Maybe it's because, as much as the Yankees are the superior team, this game was still winnable. Maybe it's because I feel like we could've made a better effort than we did. Maybe it's because I feel like we could've fielded a better team than we did. Maybe it's because I just hate losing to the Yankees. But if anything, I'm guessing it's because this felt like the sort of game people could point to months down the road when they talk about where it all went wrong. Negative turning points are an irrational and frequent fear of mine, but while I'm aware of their irrationality, it's the Mariners who've made me like this, and you're probably all in the same boat. The last few innings saw us get slapped in the face by regression, and regression is what we've been afraid of since this team got back in the mix.
Everybody knows what we're up against. Everybody recognized that, even with the series win in LA, this trip still had the potential to deal our chances a serious blow. And this just felt like a miserable way to kick off a stretch of six arduous games. My objective brain reminds me that this is only one loss, and that the M's were tied as late as the bottom of the eighth, but sometimes you just want to pick something up and smash it, objectivity be damned. One of the side effects of meaningful baseball is emotion. Tonight we got the bad ones.
- In the top of the third, third base umpire Mike DiMuro rang up Russell Branyan on a check swing third strike with a simple raise of his fist. I haven't been able to get video yet, but compare it to this. I hope Angel Hernandez wakes up bleeding tomorrow and doesn't know why or where it's coming from.
- I don't want to be too harsh on Brandon Morrow. He doesn't deserve it. I know he threw 98 pitches and walked five while failing to get through five innings, but pitching in Yankee Stadium against a patient, powerful, and predominantly left-handed lineup, this was as bad a matchup as Morrow's likely to see in his entire career, and he held them in check. You know what his ball-in-play profile looked like? 12 grounders, 1 outfield fly, 1 pop up, 1 liner. He took an interesting and inefficient route to his destination, but he got there, and had it not been for Woodward's misplay of Matsui's groundball, who knows how things might've gone. Morrow did as well tonight as anyone could have realistically hoped.
The problem is that starts like this really serve to highlight Morrow's shortcomings - namely, his command and his lack of consistent secondary stuff. He wasn't hitting his spots all game long, and while he was by and large able to keep his fastball within the zone, he only threw 20 of his 40 offspeed pitches for strikes, generating only two swings and misses. He didn't have any sort of feel for his changeup or breaking balls, which puts him in a severely disadvantageous position against left-handed hitters, and a pitcher who doesn't have a good weapon to use against left-handed hitters isn't going to last very long in New York. It's a testament to the quality of Morrow's stuff that he was able to do what he did tonight without having any idea of where he was throwing the ball, but it was made evident today that there's a whole lot of room for improvement.
I'm happy that, despite (or perhaps because of) the conditions, Morrow threw so many offspeed pitches tonight. You can't improve a pitch unless you throw it, and Morrow gave the Yankees a good amount of sliders, changeups, and curves. That makes me feel a little better about the prospect of him continuing his development in the Major Leagues in front of a big league coaching staff. But tonight it still felt like I was watching a guy who needs some minor league conditioning. I'm not saying they ought to send him to AA or AAA for a year and a half. They could just demote him long enough to work out a kink or three and then bring him back as soon as he shows some progress. But right now, as long as Morrow's throwing 20 pitches per inning and struggling to find the catcher's glove, I'm not sure he's really helping us. Does he have that potential? Of course he does. There's no question about it. But the version of Brandon Morrow that we've seen take the hill these last few turns is a promising but nevertheless ineffective pitcher. He could very well become an asset to the team down the stretch, but that's not going to happen unless he figures something out. Here's hoping he does. - A lot of things came out of the media's seemingly nonstop Joba coverage in 2007 and 2008, but not least among them is the perception that people still have of Joba that he's some sort of unhittable, flamethrowing phenom. Let me tell you a little about Joba Chamberlain: his average fastball this year is down to 92.4mph (as opposed to 97.0mph as a rookie reliever), his 58.7% strike rate is one of the worst in the league, and his swinging strike rate of 7.8% is right on the league average and ties him with guys like Dallas Braden and Kevin Correia. Joba was amazing as a rookie, and he's been awesome out of the bullpen. Absolutely. But through 15 starts and 81 innings in 2009, he hasn't been good. While Joba may very well stick as a long-term starting pitcher, make no mistake - he's nothing special now, and he needs to take several steps foward if he wants to become something special later on. A talented pitcher can't have the start he did against the Mariners tonight and then go home and look at himself in the mirror.
- Tonight's obligatory mentions of missed calls: Ichiro didn't go around in the first, and Cedeno was safe in the sixth. I wonder if it's possible to point out that the umpires screwed up without other people automatically thinking that you're blaming them for a loss. I'm not blaming the umpires for our loss. I'm just noting that they got at least two calls wrong, and those two calls cost us two outs. When you keep a mental log book of all the calls that they get wrong, it's remarkable how quickly you begin to wish ill upon the entire profession. Robots robots robots!
- I guess I'm as guilty as anyone when it comes to taking to heart all the cries over Yankee Stadium being a crazy hitter's park. Given all the mass hysteria we've heard over the past few months, I couldn't help it; I just came in expecting to see everything carry and at least five fly balls leave the yard. Guess what? There were only two homers today, and both were hit to left field. It's important to remember that even the most extreme ballpark environments these days don't really alter the game as much as you think they do. Yeah, balls that die in San Diego and Seattle take off in Texas and New York, but it's not like the Mariners came in tonight expecting to play a different sport. It's all still baseball. It's just baseball with a slightly higher rate of home runs. I psyched myself out.
- For those of you keeping score at home, it took seven batters' worth of defense before we missed Adrian Beltre. Beltre makes that play where he charges in and barehands a chopper look so easy that you forget how difficult it really is, and today Chris Woodward made the dual mistake of both bobbling such a chopper and then throwing the ball away to first base, costing the M's an out and a run. Then, a few batters later, Jeter hit a grounder to third that bounced off of Woodward directly to Ronny Cedeno, who salvaged the play. Defense is one of those things that's hard to notice until it's gone, and had we played with Beltre and Langerhans (or Endy) today instead of Woodward and Griffey, the bottom of the second looks different, and Damon's double in the seventh is probably caught. On the plus side, Gutierrez played as well as he ever has in center. I maintain that it isn't possible to watch Franklin Gutierrez play ever day and still insist that bloggers care too much about range. Anyone who's watched this team so far and thinks we need more Griffey in left to help the offense is someone you shouldn't take seriously.
- How about the bullpen regression? Watching Jakubauskas go to work against A-Rod in the seventh, he got away with a couple called strikes on inside fastballs, but that pitch made me afraid. The whole time A-Rod just looked like he was timing it and getting ready to pounce. Sure enough, Jak tried one too many inside fastballs, and Alex hit as long a home run as any I think new Yankee Stadium has seen. It's a shame, too, because up until that point Jak had worked some excellent relief, but he just doesn't have the repertoire to be dependable against a good lineup in high-leverage situations.
Then the eighth saw everything catch up with Sean White. I don't think I need to explain this one. Innings like that are why we could really use a lefty in the bullpen. You just can't expect a righty with more walks than strikeouts and no changeup to speak of to get the job done in that sort of situation. White got hit - finally - and that was the game. I am very thankful for the contribution that White has made to this team so far, but the fact of the matter is that he isn't very good. His improved velocity has made him better than he was the first time he came around, but that's kind of damning with faint praise. - Franklin Gutierrez has better offensive numbers on the season than Ken Griffey Jr. In each of his first two at bats, Griffey flew out to center on thigh-high fastballs over the outer half that he used to destroy. Those two swings he took are all the evidence you need that he isn't the hitter he used to be (and he was visibly and audibly upset after the second one). They were absolute meatballs, and Ken Griffey Jr. - one of the best left-handed hitters the game has ever seen - missed them.
- How much better does the lineup look with Kenji in there instead of Rob Johnson or Jamie Burke? That's gross but it's true.
- With the bases loaded and one out in the top of the eighth, Branyan lifted a 3-2 fly ball into left field that Dave Sims deemed plenty deep enough to score the tying run. Why? Because, according to Sims, Damon "can't throw a lick." Mike Blowers then chimed in in agreement: "Damon won't throw anyone out." It's funny - that sort of talk is nothing new to you or me, but announcers tend not to be so openly critical of the players on the field. Even when a guy has lousy footspeed, they'll still try to put a positive spin on it by saying something like "he's a cautious baserunner" or "he runs well for a catcher." I wonder, then, what makes poor throwing arms the exception. I literally can't think of any other player attribute that announcers are so willing to tear to shreds. You won't hear anyone in the broadcast booth cracking up when they watch Daniel Cabrera try to throw strikes, but every fly ball hit to Johnny Damon with a runner on base comes complete with its own Friars Club roast.
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Comments
I miss Shawn Kelley.
Can’t be said enough.
Nothing this early can really be considered a “must-win” game, but if we don’t win tomorrow, then there’s a ~90% chance we get swept before heading off to Boston.
Anyone notice that we always lose the first game of the series but still win the series? In June, there were 8 series. One sweep against, one sweep for, one win-win-loss. The other five, loss-win-win. Clearly this bodes well for the next two games.
by Fuckmikereilly on Jul 1, 2009 2:42 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs
I'm already tired of Woodward.
The Rise of a Superstar:Justin Upton-.425 wOBA, 21 years old.
by Goose on Jul 1, 2009 2:57 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs
We should make him into a shed and then burn it down.
...and now I'm here
by CapSea on Jul 1, 2009 3:49 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
But before we burn it down let hippies and hobos live in it.
I am no longer in Spokane, but I think I'll keep the name anyway.
by InSpokane on Jul 1, 2009 2:34 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
It was the kind of loss where you believe that you'll get that lucky play and steal a win.
If the roles were reversed and we were the ones who kept blowing leads I would have had no doubt we would lose. Like when a team keeps hanging around they end up winning a lot of the time (note: I have no idea if this is true but it seems like it might be). So I was waiting for that big hit that would complete the comeback. Obviously the sac fly was huge because it tied the game but heading to the bottom of the 8th I said to myself, “we blew our chance to win this.” I didn’t expect the giant pile of raccoon feces that was White’s appearance, but I felt like we let them off the hook in that bases-juiced, 1 out spot.
Go Nova
by dbroncos31 on Jul 1, 2009 6:02 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Dave Niehaus: "Damon has no arm at all..."
I thought that was a funny thing to say. And you’re right, that seems to be the only thing in baseball that a broadcaster will criticize. Dave wouldn’t say: “Willie has no power at all” or “Betancourt should have gotten to that ball.”
It is interesting to contrast this with hockey broadcasters. I’m thinking particularly of Pierre McGuire and Eddie Olczyk on NBC: On just about any play, they are much more likely to say, “So-and-so blew his coverage” or “That was a terrible pass” or “He is not a very good skater” than to say anything good about anyone. Someone will score an amazing goal, showing off all of his skills, and they’ll focus instead on how the defenseman did not take the body and the forwards did not back-check sufficiently.
by b_rider on Jul 1, 2009 6:02 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Same way with soccer broadcasters.
Though they seem to be a little quicker to emphasize the great plays, they’re just as likely to rag on shoddy defense or blown coverage.
Awaiting the day I catch a Russell Branyan foul ball. I will make love to it.
Preserved In All His Greatness - R.I.P. The Reignman 1989 to 1997
by JLProck on Jul 1, 2009 6:29 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
But Damon throws the baseball like a girl.
(Figure of speech ladies, I know there are exceptions.)
But seriously, how did that man make a ball club with an arm like that? Did he get seriously injured at some point in his career? It would be one thing if his arm was just not accurate, or a little weak.. honestly, the first time I saw him throw a ball, I could’ve sworn it was going to make the night’s blooper reel. Then I learn that’s just how he throws.
He deserves to be made fun of for it.. unless he has some deformation or injury that caused it, then I take it back.
by d0nkey on Jul 1, 2009 9:58 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
How many times this season have we loaded the bases with less than two outs, and failed to score runs?
Plural… Runs.
It feels like 20.
by JamMasterJesus on Jul 1, 2009 6:27 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Tough loss.
Not surprised, though, only because the odds finally broke through the dam. You can’t have bad defense, bad umpiring, and bad pitching add up to a win very often. If only Pettitte wasn’t pitching tonight so we could see some Langerhans action. Griffey shouldn’t be in the field just so Sweeney can get in the lineup. I think that is the most frustrating thing about last night’s game.
by Wilder. on Jul 1, 2009 8:37 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Especially when they're a combined 0 for 9 smack dab in the middle of our lineup.
I'm more like I am now than I've ever been.
by ralphie81 on Jul 1, 2009 8:42 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
"Although known to scowl and known to glare, many argue that the disapproving grimace is Ichiro's most intimidating expression."
You don’t want that man to tsk tsk you.
by msb on Jul 1, 2009 8:45 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs
"Given all the mass hysteria we've heard over the past few months, I couldn't help it; I just came in expecting to see everything carry and at least five fly balls leave the yard"
I wondered if the rain, etc changed the play of the ball. If so, we may not ever see the park at its HR Heaven state this trip.
by msb on Jul 1, 2009 8:47 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Why didn’t Jak walk Arod? 1st base was empty, there’s a runner in scoring position, and the man at the plate can change the game with one swing of the bat.
I forgot what inning it was later on, when the M’s had two on and first empty. Ichiro and his .373 comes up, and do they pitch to him? Nope.
by Blueberry_Icecream on Jul 1, 2009 11:56 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Intentional walks are generally really stupid and neither situation you mention is any exception.
by acblue on Jul 1, 2009 12:10 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Is that empirically true?
They carry minimal run value, and depending on the batter you can get to seems like it can be a good idea. In this case it was Matsui or Posada I believe, so there wasn’t really anything to gain from walking one of two right handers in the lineup.
by Bearskin Rugburn on Jul 1, 2009 12:12 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Walking a hitter in a tie game in the 7th inning with one out and a .348 wOBA, opposite handed hitter coming to the plate is just silly.
Yes, A-Rod is awesome but he stills makes an out 60% of the time.
The walk of Ichiro is slightly more defensible as it didn’t change the WE at all, but I still don’t see the point. The odds are better that Ichiro will get a hit than Branyan will, but given the WE not moving at all I think I’d prefer to pitch to Ichiro and hope you can get him out rather than trying to pitch to Branyan in that park with his plate discipline.
by acblue on Jul 1, 2009 12:23 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Or at least why not try trowing something not in his wheelhouse
as long as you’re ahead in the count.
by Bearskin Rugburn on Jul 1, 2009 12:10 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
The ball ARod hit out was high and tight
He had an amazingly quick bat to even get to the ball, let alone hit it a mile out. Considering that the first 4 pitches were all fastballs on the inside corner Jaku should probably have thrown a curveball or something else. Throwing 5 straight fastballs in the same spot to one of the greatest home run hitters ever is not the greastest idea.
by sodomojo2459 on Jul 1, 2009 1:56 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
We were boned when Branyan could only manage a sac fly in the 8th inning.
He got congratulated by his teammates, but to me, I was disappointed with that at bat.
We needed more there and although you can’t get on a guy for hitting a tying sac fly on a 3-2 pitch in the 8th, given who was on deck and the team we were facing, we really needed more there.
When he flew out, I knew we were probably losing this game
by Rudy4three on Jul 1, 2009 12:24 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
I don't see how you could be disappointed with that AB.
The result maybe, but not the AB itself. He took a called strike that was borderline but probably only called on account of his handedness, fouled off two tough pitches, worked the count full and just missed a perfectly located 3-2 slider. Bruney should get a lot of credit for the pitches he threw to Branyan and you can’t really ask for anything more than what Branyan did with them.
by acblue on Jul 1, 2009 12:30 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I thought it looked worse live than Gameday would have me believe
but I still contend it was a lefty strike.
by acblue on Jul 1, 2009 12:46 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Speaking of Angel Hernandez
Dana DeMuth has been picked as the umpire crew chief for the All-Star game in St. Louis on July 14, His crew announced Wednesday includes Brian Gorman (first base), Jeff Kellogg (second base), Angel Hernandez (third base), Tim Timmons (left field) and Paul Nauert (right field).
by msb on Jul 1, 2009 12:52 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Who are considered the best umpires anyway?
by Mariner John on Jul 1, 2009 2:20 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I don't think MLB keeps track of that, last I heard or read they rotate for these events.
I can’t find anything current on that, and quit paying attention after MLB broke their union and they quit the practice of separate umps for the two leagues.. I really like your question, hopefully someone has an answer.
by Kermit. on Jul 1, 2009 2:36 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
DeMuth has a pretty good reputation
John Hirschbeck’s supposed to be good, but beyond that I have no idea.
Nice Guys Finish Third - My semantics are a waste of time.
by pdb on Jul 1, 2009 2:39 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Re: ranking umps
In ‘98, the MLBPA did a long player survey, asking them to rank the NL & AL umpires on every thing from Accuracy of calls at the plate, consistency, temperament, fitness, etc. As you might imagine, the umps were furious. Sadly, they haven’t repeated the experiment. In 2003 SI asked players to name the best & worst
by msb on Jul 1, 2009 3:02 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Oh, and they pick by rota these days
For a long time the selection of umps for special events was based on merit, but "in 1995, however, the umpires regained the right to rotate plum assignments to the All-Star Game, league playoffs, and World Series. This is controversial because assignments are not always given to the most competent umpires. " (Even umpires sometimes strike out; Nine magazine, 22-MAR-02)
according to the MLB page: “All major league umpires are eligible to work any Special Event. The Office of the Commissioner shall have absolute and exclusive discretion in the assignment of umpires to work Special Events. There shall be no restriction on the number of Special Events to which an umpire may be assigned to work in any given year, provided however that an umpire shall not work back-to-back Special Event series (excluding the All-Star Game) and, an umpire shall not work consecutive World Series.”
by msb on Jul 1, 2009 3:06 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
That's the last one I remembered reading. For some reason I deliberately quit paying attention to the umps at that point.
Had something to do with them not having umps for each division, remember they used to have NL and AL on their caps? Really stuck out to me for a long time, I felt they were significantly worse after the union walk out.
It’s all observational, and the new technology highlighting the mistakes probably makes it seem like they are worse than ever when nothing has probably change. I realize observation can be a pain in the ass sometimes.
Also quite a few umps switch shoulders on the catcher for lefty/righty hitters, has there been any analysis by anyone on this effecting the shape of their zone?
by Kermit. on Jul 1, 2009 6:42 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I believe there has, but not sure where to point you to.
I thought the umpiring improved for a short while after the walkout and firings, but it seems to have returned to normal levels lately.
by Sec 108 on Jul 2, 2009 8:02 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I wish I had time to run through all the archives of bad calls
so like the number of missed ball/strike calls, out/safe calls and fair/foul and put together a ranking system. But I don’t have that kind of time.
I am no longer in Spokane, but I think I'll keep the name anyway.
by InSpokane on Jul 1, 2009 3:06 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Tonight's lineuo
RF Ichiro
1B Russell Branyan
2B Jose Lopez
DH Ken Griffey Jr.
CF Franklin Gutierrez
LF Wladimir Balentien
3B Chris Woodward
C Rob Johnson
SS Ronny Cedeno
I wonder if Rob Johnson will just catch all of Washburn and Felix’s starts. Also, our lineup looks so much better with Kenji in it.
by Fuckmikereilly on Jul 1, 2009 2:17 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
But it also looks a lot better without Sweeney in it
My Mariners blog - SodoMojo Twitter Feed
by gregrabble on Jul 1, 2009 2:46 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Of course hitting Sweeney against a RHP makes more sense than the lineup we saw yesterday, but yeah.
by acblue on Jul 1, 2009 2:48 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
LHP you mean?
My Mariners blog - SodoMojo Twitter Feed
by gregrabble on Jul 1, 2009 2:51 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I humbly disagree
Not seeing Griffey in left is an absolute plus, but in terms of an offensive lineup against a lefty…
Balentien-.556 OPS
Sweeney-.731 OPS
SSS be damned, Sweeney’s been better against lefties, and better in general. I get wanting to hate on Sweeney for ideological reasons, and I know he’s not a great hitter anymore, but at the moment, I think he’s better than Wlad. Of course, having Wlad’s defense over Griffey’s makes this a moot point.
by Fuckmikereilly on Jul 1, 2009 2:56 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
He's not better than Wlad because he can't play defense.
by acblue on Jul 1, 2009 2:58 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Did I not just say that?
I’m just saying, offensively, this lineup sucks more. Johnson in over Joh has a lot to do with it too, though.
by Fuckmikereilly on Jul 1, 2009 2:59 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I guess I don't uinderstand your point.
Is Sweeney a better hitter than Wlad? Yeah, probably. But he’s not a better hitter than Branyan or Griffey. Are you suggesting we play Sweeney in LF?
by acblue on Jul 1, 2009 3:02 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I wasn't suggesting we change anything.
gregrabble said the lineup looked better without Sweeney in it. I said the “offensive lineup” looks better with Sweeney in it, even though it is obviously worse overall, due to defense.
by Fuckmikereilly on Jul 1, 2009 3:15 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
You can't really discuss "just the offense" if the lineup doesn't work.
by abender20 on Jul 1, 2009 3:22 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yesterday's lineup "worked" did it not?
Griffey in left, Sweeney at DH. That is what’s better offensively than Griffey at DH, Wlad in left, and that’s what I initially compared the lineup too.
This is a silly argument. We do not disagree on anything. The lineup is the way it should be. That’s what depresses me.
by Fuckmikereilly on Jul 1, 2009 3:25 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
It's going to be alot of fun around here when we don't have to get into these debates
over bad baseball players and which one hurts the team worse.
Will be very enjoyable when we have a roster with quality hitters and defenders, so we won’t have to debate which below average OPS, below average defensive player, is more worthy of starting.
by Rudy4three on Jul 1, 2009 3:10 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Every team has these debates though
the names are different but the debate is the same. It’s not like the M’s are the only team that has less than 8 lineup spots it can count on at any one time.
Nice Guys Finish Third - My semantics are a waste of time.
by pdb on Jul 1, 2009 3:14 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Good luck with that.
If we had eight Albert Pujolses, people would still be discussing who should hit ninth.
by Teej on Jul 1, 2009 3:49 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Pujols!
Nice Guys Finish Third - My semantics are a waste of time.
by pdb on Jul 1, 2009 4:08 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
In that lineup, I could hit ninth and play short and we'd still win every game.
by abender20 on Jul 1, 2009 4:10 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I finally remembered the article containing the link! Willie, Bloomquist and the Dunn by Joe Pos.
Baseball Musings Lineup Analysis. 8 Albert Pujols nets you a paltry 9.181 runs per game, not too shabby.
by Kermit. on Jul 1, 2009 11:25 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

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