Navigation: Jump to content areas:


Pro Quality. Fan Perspective.
Login-facebook
Around SBN: Devils Beat Rangers, Head To Stanley Cup Finals

Well That Was A Disaster

Boy, when the Rockies get on a roll they just run over everything in their path. Except for the Red Sox on the grandest possible stage.

I don't care how run-prevention-oriented your roster might be - you can't go into Coors and slug .340 over a weekend and expect to come out smelling like roses. The only decent thing to come out of the whole series is that we only lost one game of ground to the Rangers, but then at the same time we lost three games of ground to the Angels, and as a result our playoff odds are down by more than a third from where they were Friday morning. I keep repeating myself, but this team needs to figure out what it wants to do. Hanging around in the periphery is great if you're gearing up to make a run, but all they've been doing so far is paddling in circles, and it's driving me crazy. Perhaps Michael Saunders could row the other oar.

On another note, it's funny; it takes a lot for me to start liking another team, but it takes precious little for me to hate them. I think I hate the Rockies and all they've done is beat us 12 times in 13 years. They're a harmless, inoffensive ballclub that doesn't get a lot of media attention and hasn't had a whole bunch of success. But because of those two miserable losses in 2006 and this weekend's sweep, they've managed to vault themselves onto my list. I guess my brain just isn't wired for neutrality. I have to have an opinion of every team, and I find it more difficult to root for than to root against. Hell, half the time I don't even like us. At this rate it shouldn't be long before I start seeing every opponent as the Angels. And then I'll need to establish a new level of hate for the Angels. Being a baseball fan is complicated.

  • Yuniesky Betancourt is 2-21 since his benching, and while he looked to be giving a little extra effort in the field in his first game back, it would appear that he's slipped back into his comfort zone. Annoyed? Don't you worry. The team is working on it.

  • Based on a sample size of Jason Vargas, the Rockies were on the right track when they tried out that whole changeup experiment a few years back. Vargas threw 20 changeups today - 13 of them for strikes - and Rockies hitters swung through seven of them while hitting another two for groundballs. The problem is that Vargas also throws other pitches too, and this afternoon his fastball and slider got rocked to the tune of eight line drives and six doubles on 20 balls in play. I like Vargas' change a lot, and his slider is perfectly fine against lefties, but it's hard to be consistently effective when you can't trust your primary pitch. I wonder if this is what Cesar Jimenez would look like as a starter. 

Our next nine games come against the 28-34 Padres and the 27-37 Diamondbacks. This is the easiest stretch we'll face for the rest of the season. It's not absolutely imperative that the Mariners take advantage of this, but if they don't, then they'll be left facing some extraordinary odds.

Comment 144 comments  |  0 recs  | 

Do you like this story?

Comments

Display:

I can't bring myself to hate the Rockies.

They repeatedly win against us, but it always seems to be more due to our own incompetence than timely hitting & pitching from Colorado.

Like you wrote, we slugged .340 for the weekend. And we threw Morrow, Lowe, and Vargas out there. It’s just like the 2006 series, when we let Josh Fogg shut us out, we refused to use newly acquired Eduardo Perez, and we sent Guardado out when we absolutely should not have. We deserved to lose.

I don’t hate the Rockies. I even somehow respect them for bringing out the worst in us.

by katal on Jun 14, 2009 6:49 PM PDT reply actions  

The team is working on it?

I knew friendly ties with Cuba could come in handy. Let Castro make an example of Yuni to all who aspire for freedom.

by jimmylauderdale on Jun 14, 2009 6:59 PM PDT reply actions  

Rockies more lucky than good

I don’t remember the 2006 series w/ the Rox specifically. Let’s say that the Rockies have hot streaks and the only reason why they made the WS ahead of us is because their hot streak two years ago came at the right time. Hurdle is an okay manager, not great, not terrible. Tracy may be a little better but new managers often produce winning streaks.

We need a SS. We also need to get Jeff Clement to a new organization b/c it’s obvious that Zdurencik and Wak dislike him.

Josh Normand

by Jmnor8 on Jun 14, 2009 7:06 PM PDT reply actions  

Catcher?

You got slurved!

Free Tommy Hanson! [FREED]! Free Jeff Clement! Free Michael Saunders!

by Slurvey on Jun 14, 2009 7:28 PM PDT up reply actions  

I respectfully disagree. I don't think Junior is hell-bent on being our DH.

I think he was fine when they told him they didn’t need him to play defense. I think he knows he wasn’t really up to it anyway. If they could bring in a power batter to start at DH, I think Junior would go for it. He would still get to pinch hit occassionally (rarely based on Wak’s history) and I think he wants a ring more than he wants to bat everyday. He knows this is his last chance. He also knows that the fans love him and would be more happy with better results than just seeing him in the lineup everyday.

by Sinking Away on Jun 14, 2009 7:44 PM PDT up reply actions  

What like

Bench coach?
Bullpen coach?
1st base coach?
3rd base coach?
Hitting coach?

Come on now, they cannot just have useless coaching positions.

by Matthew on Jun 14, 2009 8:35 PM PDT up reply actions  

Life coach

"Even the stupidest of men, by some instinct of nature, is convinced on his own that with more observations his risk of failure is diminished."
-Jacques Bernoulli Ars conjectandi 1713

by Bearskin Rugburn on Jun 14, 2009 8:41 PM PDT up reply actions  

Agreed.

I’ll never get too worked up about it either way, but pitchers hitting is a tradition I wouldn’t miss in the slightest.

by Teej on Jun 14, 2009 8:37 PM PDT up reply actions  

I want the opposite.

I want Felix to DH when he doesn’t pitch so I can see him play every game I go to!

by Fin on Jun 14, 2009 8:18 PM PDT up reply actions  

Don't hold your breath

it ain’t going anywhere.

Nice Guys Finish Third - My semantics are a waste of time.

by pdb on Jun 14, 2009 9:06 PM PDT up reply actions  

I honestly don't understand the hate for interleague play

What the hell’s the difference between playing the Royals or Tigers more times, or playing the Rockies or Padres or Mets or whatever? I mean people like to bitch about it but fuck their whiny asses.

by Gihyou on Jun 15, 2009 3:26 AM PDT up reply actions  

Every other sport has interconference play.

Other sports don’t have separate leagues in a single unified body. Which is really just rephrasing Matthew’s point, in a way.

by Lanky on Jun 15, 2009 10:05 AM PDT up reply actions  

It's not the existence of separate leagues that's the differentiator though

it’s the differing rules in each league.

Nice Guys Finish Third - My semantics are a waste of time.

by pdb on Jun 15, 2009 10:06 AM PDT up reply actions  

Yes, exactly.

I was just trying to say that the difference between two leagues is significant, while the difference between two conferences is not. To put it another way, interleague play is more like the CFL playing the NFL than it is like NFL, NHL and NBA interconference play.

by Lanky on Jun 15, 2009 10:11 AM PDT up reply actions  

interleague

Couldn’t agree with you more about Interleague. Novelty is over, unless you live in Chicago, New York or Maryland. Even the LA teams don’t hate each other.

Josh Normand

by Jmnor8 on Jun 16, 2009 8:41 PM PDT up reply actions  

I agree.

I think that birds-fighting-over-a-baseball logo is ironic and hilarious, but I like interleague play. I wouldn’t have been able to see so many M’s games here in San Diego without it. It’s not like the separate leagues are separate entities anymore in anything but a historical context. Not to mention seeing the M’s play Dodger Stadium, Wrigley, Shea last year, etc.

With that said, watching AL pitchers swing the bat (with notable exceptions) shows how silly having different rules in each league is. If anything should go, it’s the DH.

by lemonverbena on Jun 15, 2009 7:27 AM PDT up reply actions  

Obviously I am being facetious

But I do tire of listening to everyone replay the same argument year after year. I wish there were a way to declare arguing about interleague a dead meme.

by Gihyou on Jun 15, 2009 12:54 PM PDT up reply actions  

I don't think they are that much the same.

I think the DH is huge. Santana is Santana no matter which league he’s pitching for, but pitching against a DH is different than pitching against any NL pitcher.

by Sinking Away on Jun 14, 2009 10:36 PM PDT up reply actions  

Depends on where in the order the DH bats.

If he’s batting 2nd, he gets 4.72 PAs/Game, if he’s a pitcher in NL batting 8th he gets 3.98 PAs/Game. Not a big difference, but still significant.

by Sinking Away on Jun 14, 2009 10:47 PM PDT up reply actions  

Pitchers only hit 2 or 3 times.

Afterwards they are replaced by pinch hitters, usually for the rest of the game.

...and now I'm here

by CapSea on Jun 14, 2009 10:55 PM PDT up reply actions  

Still, it seems to me if your DH is one of the 3 best batters on your

team, and you are batting him in the 1, 2, or 3 hole, you are in a much better position than batting for a pitcher twice in the 7, 8 or 9 hole. That just seems to me to be common sense.

by Sinking Away on Jun 14, 2009 11:07 PM PDT up reply actions  

I can't believe this is even a topic of conversation.

There are a lot of other factors like fatigue and injury that would make the DH infinately better than batting the pitcher. Not to mention why would you ever want 2 or 3 different batters to bat in the pitchers spot over having a solid DH hitter that hits for power/consistency.

by d0nkey on Jun 14, 2009 11:15 PM PDT up reply actions  

Mostly because the DH makes the game static and boring

(unless your DH is a superstar like Ortiz or Edgar, but those guys are the excretions), and the strategy around working the pitchers’ spot gets the entire roster involved and is like putting a pepper in the gumbo.

by Poochie on Jun 14, 2009 11:20 PM PDT up reply actions   2 recs

It's not worth seeing a bad hitter hit 2-3 times a game.

And forced strategy isn’t strategy. If you’re down 3 runs in the 8th, you HAVE to pull the starter if he comes up to the plate in that inning, unless he’s a decent hitter. If it’s a 1-1 game in the 7th and the pitcher comes to the plate, runner on, you HAVE to sac bunt.

Pitchers can’t hit. Nobody CARES if they hit, because ther massively important part of their job is throwing the ball. Why do I have to watch them hit if I can see a hitter hit instead? Just so I can marvel at the double switch?

by eponymous_coward on Jun 15, 2009 2:52 PM PDT up reply actions  

Forced strategy isn't the issue

You could attack any aspect of the game by that line of reasoning. My feeling is the watching people make hard choices is more interesting then not. I also feel that everyone should have to hit and defend their position, pitcher just has to be a position where run prevention is more important than hitting. If we’re going to hit for pitchers why not just hit for guys like Mike Matheny or Adam Everett? I have no interest in watching those guys hit either.

by Poochie on Jun 15, 2009 8:16 PM PDT up reply actions  

This is not an argument about whether or not the DH is better.

This is a discussion about the difference between the two leagues.

...and now I'm here

by CapSea on Jun 14, 2009 11:35 PM PDT up reply actions  

It wasn't even supposed to be about anything

It was a throw away silly comment satirizing among, other things, that if you watch as much AL baseball as you do NL you begin to notice that play is nearly identical and there’s not much of a difference.

by Poochie on Jun 14, 2009 11:39 PM PDT up reply actions  

Right, this too.

Either way, d0nkey’s comment seemed unusual considering the thread it was attached to.

...and now I'm here

by CapSea on Jun 14, 2009 11:42 PM PDT up reply actions  

I was more referring to interleague play specifically

I don’t really mind the pitchers hitting in the NL, it’s not like it ruins the game or anything. But when the leagues play each other I cringe when I see the AL pitchers batting just because they probably have a higher risk of injury while batting or baserunning because they never, ever do those things while the NL pitchers at least do them somewhat regularly.

by OlSalty on Jun 14, 2009 11:55 PM PDT up reply actions  

Is it wrong for me to wish we get smoked over the next nine games?

That would be a real indicator of what should happen this season.

It’s not that I don’t want to make the playoffs. I’d be pretty pumped if we did. At the same time, I think we’re cutting it close with Bedard and Washburn as movable pieces. I really just want the rollercoaster to end, and to see Jack make some moves one way or the other.

Awaiting the day I catch a Russell Branyan foul ball. I will make love to it.
Preserved In All His Greatness - R.I.P. The Reignman 1989 to 1997

by JLProck on Jun 14, 2009 10:05 PM PDT reply actions  

Yeah, well, basically the best thing that could happen to the future of this team is to lose a lot right now.

But at the same time, don’t forget that some of these moves will not be punting the season. For example, if somehow Bedard could be traded for an MLB caliber shortstop, the upgrade over Yuni would negate much of the loss of Bedard. We need luck right now in order to get to the playoffs anyway, so needing a tiny bit more luck is not an awful thing to ask. Trading these players may be the result of a losing season, but the trades themselves don’t need to necessarily mean that the season is over, even if he made them right now at 5.5 games back.

...and now I'm here

by CapSea on Jun 14, 2009 10:26 PM PDT up reply actions  

Right. Losing Bedard with an upgrade at SS might be half dozen of one.

A lot of it is luck. But we need some talent to win the West. Once that has been accomplished, there are butts in the seats for next year, and there is $. Which makes 2010 something we might be able to get through.

by Sinking Away on Jun 14, 2009 10:32 PM PDT up reply actions  

Fixing the DH

I’ve been thinking about a compromise on the DH that might make both leagues happy.

I think the DH should have to leave the game (or move to a position) when the starting pitcher leaves the game. This would take a lot of meaningless at bats away from NL pitchers yet bring all of the interesting strategy decisions to the AL.

by batura on Jun 14, 2009 11:14 PM PDT reply actions  

This might be a dumb question but...

Why not pull up Carp/Clement/someone else and put them at 1st and then move Branyan to DH? Is he that big an assett as at defence?

Thug Life

by Slow Country on Jun 14, 2009 11:18 PM PDT reply actions  

No.

They aren’t going to bench a Seattle sports icon because he isn’t hitting.

by Fin on Jun 14, 2009 11:37 PM PDT up reply actions  

I respectively disagree. They could bench Jr. They could also put him on the DL until Sept.

I think that he knows his worth to M’s this year. I think he realizes that he is an icon, but that means little if he can’t make things happen. He is not making things happen. Yeah, he can get on base, but if we had a DH who could hit for power, Jr. wouldn’t be offended. He knows this is about winning. He wants to win. He would be fine if he could get a WS ring out of this and not have to play. He’s the man now. He was a boy who built Safeco, but he is a man who could bring that WS flag to the stadium. He is well aware of that.

by Sinking Away on Jun 15, 2009 12:02 AM PDT up reply actions  

I'd rather Saunders be the LF.

With Chavez as our 4th OF and Balentien somewhere else.

I actually bought a Betancourt t-shirt.

by Hopefulmsfan on Jun 15, 2009 1:32 AM PDT up reply actions  

I'm not for losing

I don’t get the “I hope we lose” mentality this year. Last year I was totally on board with it, because it would hasten the departure of Bavasi, McLaren & co.

But the point of watching your team is to hope they win and win NOW. I hope the M’s go on a ten game winning streak and start making deals to acquire better hitting. Sure, we could trade away Bedard and Washburn and get some nice prospects…or we could trade a couple of nice prospects and get some better hitters to help us go to the playoffs this season.

The problem with this season is that the M’s are neither clearly contenders, nor clearly out of it. I think you’re mistaking a desire for clarity on this point for a desire to detach from the season and begin looking to the future. We have an easy schedule over the next week or so. If we don’t kick some ass it should become clear if we’re sellers or buyers.

by short on Jun 14, 2009 11:46 PM PDT reply actions  

I don't know anyone who actively wants to lose

but I would prefer the Mariners blow goats for a few weeks and fade from the race to them being mediocre and staying within theoretical striking distance of a playoff spot without actually being in contention.

by Aaron Campeau on Jun 15, 2009 2:29 AM PDT up reply actions  

The thing about mediocre for the rest of the season that bothers me?

It means we have a FO that can’t make a decision. Unless you consider staying the course and hoping for the best a decision. I don’t know, making the playoffs relies pretty heavily on the Rangers failing.

by Kermit. on Jun 15, 2009 1:08 PM PDT up reply actions  

Wow

They are pretty behind in the standings. I guess it is comforting to know that even though they swept the Mariners, they Mariners are still closer to the playoffs than the Rockies are.

by Fin on Jun 15, 2009 1:15 AM PDT up reply actions  

Actually I take that back

The Rockies are closer in the wild card, the Mariners are closer in the division.

by Fin on Jun 15, 2009 1:16 AM PDT up reply actions  

Comments For This Post Are Closed


User Tools

By reading a game thread of your own volition you agree to accept all liability for any and all damage done to your delicate sensibilities.

FanPosts

Community blog posts and discussion.

Recent FanPosts

Small
Starlin Castro's fit with Seattle
Kawasaki80_small
Lists! So many lists!
M_s_hat_copy_small
OT -- May 22nd In Memoriam
Ichiro_small
Why do managers and media members hate walks?
Wbc_029_small
Friday Morning Music Thread
Small
Dustin Ackley BP swing vs game swing
Beastquakerwallpaper_small
More on the Struggles of Smoak
Randy2_for_sbn_small
Albert Pujols 2012: Three Retrospectives
Small
On Batting Orders
Niehaus_small
More on Dustin Ackley and the strikezone

+ New FanPost All FanPosts >

Yahoo_full_count

Sexy People

Wbc_029_small Jeff Sullivan

Small Matthew

Claw_small JY