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Fun With Numbers

After 29 games, the Seattle Mariners have hit .261/.315/.378, good for a .306 team wOBA and a 670-run season pace.

To date, Adrian Beltre has hit .207/.242/.276, good for a .232 wOBA.

Adrian Beltre's Marcel forecast coming into the year was .265/.323/.454, good for a .333 wOBA.

If Adrian Beltre were hitting like his own Marcel instead of a retarded version of Juan Castro's, the Seattle Mariners would (approximately) have a .268/.324/.399 batting line and a .318 wOBA, which would put them on pace for a final run total around 700, roughly what most of us projected them to do.

Forget everything else that's been going on or anybody else you think has underachieved. If Adrian Beltre were simply hitting like Adrian Beltre, our offense would be more acceptably mediocre and less chillingly limp.

Pick it up, Adrian. You're killing us.

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One reason I could think of why he's doing so bad would be injury.

Hopefully it’s just a slow start and then he heats things up and hits that elusive first HR.

You got slurved bitch.

by Slurvey on May 8, 2009 3:44 PM PDT reply actions  

I wonder if they'll keep trotting him out there until he gets right

I wouldn’t be opposed to him taking a day off, just to get his head out of the game for a day. I have no idea whether it would help or not, but it couldn’t hurt. It’s not a punishment, just a brief break to clear his head perhaps

I want to poop at your house - Thingray

by tootthekazoo on May 8, 2009 4:03 PM PDT reply actions  

Hmmm...

Branyan at third, Sweeney at first, Cedeno at SS, Griffey at DH.

Yeah, he might need a day off or three. Either that or to be kicked in the ankle. Seems like he always kicks butt when he’s hurt…

This signature space for rent.

by PositivePaul on May 8, 2009 5:01 PM PDT reply actions  

I remember that point last season, 20 some games in. The sports page ran a story about it.

He was hitting around .200 and they weren’t happy about it, I can’t remember who wrote the article but he wanted Beltre hitting around .260. I looked up his plate appearances, and figured with a few walks the difference between where he was at and .260 was ~7 hits. That was the moment I decided to get off my ass and start picking up some of the more advanced stats.

But you think about it, throw an extra 5-7 hits on 9 men in the line up, over 25 games that could be huge. This isn’t high level thinking here, but that was my perspective on sports writers throwing batting percentages out there like that. It doesn’t really tell me anything.

by Kermit. on May 8, 2009 9:40 PM PDT reply actions  

He'll start producing...

when we’re so far out of it it won’t make any difference, end of June. I’d like to see him put up some decent numbers so JZ can get some value for him at the trading deadline.

How can a guy that seems so lost at the plate produce such a great season while he was with the Dodgers? Hmmm! Makes me wonder.

by SW WA Coug on May 9, 2009 10:10 AM PDT reply actions  

I'm not accusing Beltre of being a user, I'm just looking at the stats....

and making my own educated guess. If you can use the F bomb on every post on a game thread, I can express my opinion if I choose. Beltre reminds me of Jimmy Pressley. Thank God he got injured so Edgar could get a roster spot. Beltre is overmatched at the plate now. How’s that for an opinion?

if he wasn’t such a great defensive ballplayer he’d be lucky to be in AAA.

by SW WA Coug on May 9, 2009 2:44 PM PDT up reply actions  

I don't think it's a stupid opinion....

I think it’s valid. How’s attacking a poster going to make it non-valid? I read the stuff you post and if I don’t agree with it I move on.

by SW WA Coug on May 9, 2009 3:13 PM PDT up reply actions  

I'm not attacking you, I'm attacking your stated opinion that Beltre isn't an MLB caliber hitter.

He has been below league average once in his time with the Mariners and above league average twice. He looks like crap now but there is absolutely no reason to think he will continue to hit this way. If you’re going to make assertions like that you have to be able to back them up and if you can’t people are going to challenge them.

by Aaron Campeau on May 9, 2009 3:17 PM PDT up reply actions  

I can back it up....

Look at his stats ever since he’s become a Mariner. Anything in those stats suggest he’s even close to the level he hit at with the Dodgers? How can you justify his salary when he doesn’t contribute at the plate?

He’s not the only ‘one year wonder’ in MLB, or should I say, he’s not the only player in the last decade to only have one season that stood out above all the others?

He’s an average hitter at best. You’ve got people on here just begging for him to just pick it up to an average ‘punch and Judy’ level.

And as far as steroids are concerned, they are a very viable factor and it’s not just something that should be overlooked. If I get banned because I made the reference, so be it. You can’t talk about Albert Pujols without someone bringing up that subject. Why should Beltre be any different?

by SW WA Coug on May 9, 2009 3:38 PM PDT up reply actions  

Why would Beltre be any different? Because we're above talking about that stuff here.

You’re obviously not as well versed in advanced metrics as the moderators and some other folks here, and that’s fine. Learning is good. But your opinion re: Beltre is wrong. I’m a novice about advanced analysis and I can point to plenty of reasons that you’re wrong. If you’re expecting him to produce at the level he did in 2004 you’re asking him to be the most valuable player in baseball. Anyone who expected him to repeat those numbers was missing the point.

by Aaron Campeau on May 9, 2009 6:47 PM PDT up reply actions  

Which leads back to my original point....

about my suspicions about that season. You’re a novice, I’m not.

by SW WA Coug on May 9, 2009 7:11 PM PDT up reply actions  

You've got to be fucking kidding me.

You’re either monumentally stupid or a massive troll. Either way I am now ignoring everything you say.

by Aaron Campeau on May 9, 2009 7:16 PM PDT up reply actions  

A quick quiz:

1) Fielding% is the best way to evaluate defence: T/F
2) Catcher is the most important defensive position on the field: T/F
3) Wins are the best way to evaluate pitchers: T/F
4) ERA is the best way to evaluate pitchers: T/F
5) You should reserve your closer for save situations in the 9th inning only: T/F
6) Batting average is the most important thing for a leadoff hitter: T/F
7) Runs scored are the most important thing for a leadoff hitter: T/F
8) Having a high RBI total is the most important thing for middle-of-the-order hitters: T/F
9) Building team chemistry is an excellent reason to sign a free agent: T/F
10) Which player would you pick in left field if both were asking for 4 years/$30M in free agency: Raul Ibanez or David DeJesus

by Graham MacAree on May 10, 2009 9:09 AM PDT up reply actions  

Okay, I'll give it a try....

1) F – If that was the case most first basemen would be the leading fielders on the team and that’s just not the case
2) T – Kind of like the center on a football team. He calls the pitches and he can really screw up a defense if he’s bad at it
3) F – Lots of good pitching is not rewarded with a W
4) F – I would say the best pitcher is the one that limits baserunner per inning
5) F – No way because if you can’t get to the 9th because you didn’t use him you haven’t taken advantage of his talents
6) F – I would say on base % is more important
7) F – But my guess is he should probably be the leading run scorer on the team
8) F – You want him to produce runs but what % of RISP is he effectively driving in would be more important
9) F – This is a tough call. Although team chemistry is harped on, Richie Sexson didn’t produce
10) I’m a Raul Ibanez fan and I know nothing about David DeJesus. Raul was very limited defensively. Based on that, I’d take David DeJesus because I’m assuming he is a solid defensive outfielder.

How did I do?

by SW WA Coug on May 10, 2009 10:40 AM PDT up reply actions  

You did pretty well, although I'm not sure as to the reasoning

1) Correct, although a far better argument as to why would involve a discussion of range. This is most easily demonstrated with, for example, a sure handed, no range shortstop (think Derek Jeter) against a shortstop who makes every play Jeter makes and then some but makes a few throwing errors on balls Jeter didn’t even come close to.

2) I’d say incorrect, although the argument could go both ways. Turns out that as long as a catcher can actually play the position their defence matters relatively little (there’s something like a two-win spread between Ivan Rodriguez and Mike Piazza per year, and that’s just not the sort of gap we’d expect from a critical defensive position). In order to define pitch calling as a skill, we’d expect some catchers to post a better cERA (basically earned run average with a certain catcher behind the plate) that other catchers handling the same pitching staff, and years of research into that have been fruitless. There’s an argument to be made that it is indeed the most important position, but I just don’t buy it, because otherwise we’d have seen some evidence in the data.

3) Correct, spot on.

4) Correct but the argument is very, very weak. Dave Cameron and myself have some significant work regarding true measures of pitching effectiveness (critically, any such metric must avoid hits entirely, as they can be strongly influenced by the defenders). Dave’s ‘Evaluating Pitching Talent’ is here and you can find some of my work here (numbers) and here (no numbers).

5&6&7) Correct, more or less spot on.

8) Correct, although again there’s a little bit of weakness in the argument. Try to get away from who he drives in (because it’s highly preferable to evaluate players outside of the context of their teammates) and focus on the player stats themselves. The best current measure of hitting ability is weighted on-base average (wOBA), which is essentially runs produced per plate appearance scaled to OBP for familiarity’s sake.

9) Correct, chemistry may or may not be important but it is completely impossible to predict.

10) Yep, DeJesus. He’s a better defender and less likely to fall off a cliff because he’s younger than Raul.

by Graham MacAree on May 10, 2009 11:02 AM PDT up reply actions  

Thanks for the constructive criticism....

I know I don’t know it all, very far from it but much of it is common sense. You make some really good points and I feel like I’ve learned something. Thanks.

by SW WA Coug on May 10, 2009 12:02 PM PDT up reply actions  

Perhaps Beltre has just lost his focus.

Maybe the Mariners need to consider sending Beltre to a special seminar or camp where they can help teach Beltre better concentration skills.

by Matthew on May 9, 2009 12:49 PM PDT reply actions   4 recs

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