Step into Zduriencik's shoes: Roster Move Ideas Thread
The Mariners, as I'm sure you're aware, are 21-26 and in 3rd place in the AL West. Our offense is pitiful, our bullpen spastic, and our luck sinking. We all know changes are coming, but what?
If you're Jack Zduriencik, what moves do you make right now? Trade Yuni for decent prospects? Shake up the bullpen? Trade Bedard and/or Beltre in blockbuster deals? Acquire a big-time slugger and hope to contend?
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200 comments
Comments
I make a cup of tea and think about going for a walk
by Graham on May 27, 2009 9:57 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs
No one will be stupid enough to give anything of value up for Yuni.
If that were the case, Yuni would be long gone.
Acquiring a big time slugger would require giving up more of the farm system, which is shortsighted and not in the best interest of the team.
I don’t know about blockbuster, but if teams are willing to part with good packages of prospects for Bedard and/or Beltre, you’d have to make those moves. Also, I’d get rid of Lopez if any team was willing to part with some infield prospects. Let Cedeno play 2nd for the rest of the year if Yuni can’t be moved.
by abender20 on May 27, 2009 9:57 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Trade Washburn immediately, Bedard at the end of June and Beltre at the trade deadline.
by Robert on May 27, 2009 10:02 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Move Branyan soonish, Batista and Lowe at the deadline
by PattyB on May 27, 2009 10:04 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Am I crazy in not wanting to move Branyan?
I kinda want him around for another year if he’s so inclined, and I doubt he fetches much in a trade.
by Teej on May 27, 2009 11:14 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
There are a lot of teams who could use him
by Graham on May 27, 2009 11:24 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I get the sense that he's still extremely undervalued by both teams and fans because his strikeouts give him a bad rep.
But smart teams should definitely want him.
by Decatur on May 27, 2009 11:36 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
He doesn't seem to be strictly a platoon bat though, unless I am mistaken?
Like Poochie says, I wouldn’t move him unless he brought back a nice return. Not that getting back value seems to an issue with Zduriencik, the man has a nice touch with trades.
by Kermit. on May 27, 2009 1:29 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I think we can get a equivalent performence from Jeff Clement at DH next year.
As for bringing him back at 1B. It depends on how the organization feels about Carp
by Rudy4three on May 27, 2009 11:27 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Carp is hitting pretty damned well at AAA this year.
I think there’s a pretty good case to be made that Carp > Clement if Clement’s been permanently moved to 1B (what made Clement awesome is he hit like an OK 1B but could play C). Carp’s hitting is better than Clement’s at comparable ages.
by eponymous_coward on May 27, 2009 4:10 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
You can have both...
He’s a free agent after the season. Might be a little more expensive, but he’d at least be available…
This signature space for rent.
by PositivePaul on May 27, 2009 3:59 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Beltre wouldn't command a blockbuster deal right now
the problem with all those trade scenarios is that you can’t assume that another team will want, much less value, our castoffs – and Beltre right now is not a valuable trade commodity. You might get a few steaks and a bag of balls for Yuni but that’s about it.
Nice Guys Finish Third - My semantics are a waste of time.
by pdb on May 27, 2009 10:08 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs
I think you're assuming GMs are more reactionary than they actually are
Beltre is still a valuable commodity
by Graham on May 27, 2009 10:09 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
That's entirely possible
I just tend to default to a lot of GM’s subscribing to the “what have you done for me lately” theory, and it also seems that GM’s might try to offer various crap for Beltre right now to see if Z bites (which he wouldn’t, thus rendering Beltre more or less untradeable right now), because of a perception that the M’s might be fire-saleing since they’re starting to fall apart. I may be completely off base on that, though.
Nice Guys Finish Third - My semantics are a waste of time.
by pdb on May 27, 2009 10:16 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yup.
Fangraphs shows that Beltre and Teixeira have pretty comparable WARs since 2003. In fact, the push goes to Beltre by a hair (27.3 to 26.0- though it’s close enough that I’d rather say “pretty comparable”).
Now, granted, that’s in part because Beltre’s 2004 is completely awesome (10 WAR!), but Tex slipped in a career year last year (6.7 WAR).
Of course, you’ll get more for a guy who’s doing well than a guy who is not… but let’s recall that RJ was accused of tanking it in 1998, DID have some down stats, and we still did OK on that deal.
by eponymous_coward on May 27, 2009 4:18 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
A entire thread of rosterbation?
Really?
by Matthew on May 27, 2009 10:12 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs
I'm impressed that nobody has come up with specific trades yet
by Graham on May 27, 2009 10:17 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I would trade yuni + beltre for pujols straight up
Nice Guys Finish Third - My semantics are a waste of time.
by pdb on May 27, 2009 10:23 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Then I'd flip Pujols and Wladimir Balentien for Adam Jones, Matt Wieters and Nick Markakis
by seattlebruin on May 27, 2009 10:30 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I know it's a joke
but there isn’t a thing in the universe I would trade Pujols for.
by TheTank123 on May 27, 2009 10:51 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Pujols for Jones and one of Wieters/Markakis would be a damn fine deal.
by acblue on May 27, 2009 1:05 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Even I would do that
St. Louis Cardinals... defying win expectancy since 2008
by vivaelpujols on May 27, 2009 5:13 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Dave Cameron does this from time to time, offering potential moves that would benefit us.
by Taylor H on May 27, 2009 10:27 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
But Dave Cameron most people here are not
A discussion about the tradability of our current roster might be valuable though
by Graham on May 27, 2009 10:29 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
There's a lot of differences here.
For one, Dave puts an sizable amount of research and effort into coming up with those potential moves. They are not off the cuff. Secondly, Dave has a much better idea of how the trade market looks. He has information that nobody here does.
Without those two things, you are left with simply rosterbating.
by Matthew on May 27, 2009 10:30 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
But I'm curious, why does Dave get this inside information?
by Taylor H on May 27, 2009 10:32 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Because he puts a ton of work into baseball.
by Matthew on May 27, 2009 10:32 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I don't mean to sound flippant, but don't you as well?
I’ve noticed that Dave tends to have more of an authoritative tone in his writing; to quote: “The team should move Erik Bedard and Jarrod Washburn as soon as possible.” Is this just a style difference between the blogs, that the LL team prefers not to “rosterbate,” as you put it?
by Taylor H on May 27, 2009 10:39 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
It's just that millions of casual fans over the years
have posted things like:
The Mariners should trade Adrien Beltre for Matt Wieters The Orioles owe us!
And really… no one wants to read that kind of drivel. It’s very difficult to pull off interesting rosterbation. The reason they compare it to masturbation is that it’s generally not interesting to anyone else.
by johnbai on May 27, 2009 10:42 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
We just haven't talked much about it
Dave knows more than we do and he’s already covering things
by Graham on May 27, 2009 10:46 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Do I? Yes.
But nowhere near as much as Dave. Dave’s been at this a lot longer than I have.
And yes, there are stylistic differences in writing as well.
by Matthew on May 27, 2009 10:47 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
legitimatemajorleaguebaseballtraderumorsandplayersalaries.com
I will smash your face into a jelly.
by Phildopip on May 27, 2009 10:31 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
That's rather large and douchey.
It's hard to convince people to let you eat them if you're an asshole. - Thingray
by Faux on May 27, 2009 10:31 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
We totally should have traded Gil Meche for Vicente Padilla!
by Matthew on May 27, 2009 10:31 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
The best part is we did end up getting Wilkerson.
It's hard to convince people to let you eat them if you're an asshole. - Thingray
by Faux on May 27, 2009 10:33 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
You've brought this on yourself
with that “time to fold up all our hopes for contending this season post.” Reap what you sow mofo.
by johnbai on May 27, 2009 10:32 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Our ban crop is coming in nicely this Spring.
The summer harvest may be even more bountiful.
by Matthew on May 27, 2009 10:33 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Bucky, is that you?
This signature space for rent.
by PositivePaul on May 27, 2009 4:09 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
AK1984 post?
Fans are typically idiots.
by The Typical Idiot Fan on May 27, 2009 3:46 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Heh, I remember Jerry.
I always thought it was kinda funny how the only time you’d ever see him on the various Mariner blogs/forums is during the offseason. He’d rosterbate, the offseason would end, and then he’d disappear again.
The Rise of a Superstar:Justin Upton-.431 wOBA, 21 years old.
by Goose on May 27, 2009 5:13 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Oh Jerry, how we've missed thee...
Although, wait, Ichiro’s still on the roster. So perhaps not…
(actually I’m pretty good at this)
This signature space for rent.
by PositivePaul on May 27, 2009 4:06 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Of course...
It would help if I actually read the comments before I posted…
This signature space for rent.
by PositivePaul on May 27, 2009 4:08 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Bedard can go at any time there is a good offer on the table.
I hang on to Beltre and Lopez until the deadline hoping they get hot and will bring something of value back.
Washburn can go as soon as a team suffers an injury in the rotation and wants to take him.
I want to keep Branyan for awhile because I still don’t think he’d be highly valued around the league unless he shows this start isn’t a fluke. Probably keep him til July 31st and see what the market is. Plus, although this team isn’t going to contend, I would probably have to stop watching the final four months of baseball if we field an offense without Branyan.
by Rudy4three on May 27, 2009 10:14 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs
"Trade Yuni for decent prospects?"
I get the impression that if we could trade Yuni for decent prospects we would have done it by now.
by ThundaPC on May 27, 2009 10:38 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs
I actually would love a good rosterbation article from Dave.
He’s the only guy who’s rosterbating habits could be described as artistic rather than pornographic. As the Supreme Court says, you know it when you see it.
Fear the NPE
by thewyrm on May 27, 2009 10:42 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Well I guess you hated the LL 2009 roster overhaul posts from last year
We’ll be sure not to post something similar again
by Graham on May 27, 2009 10:45 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
The kind of ideas presented in these posts are precisely what I was trying to raise in this post.
by Taylor H on May 27, 2009 10:48 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I don't mean to be rude, Taylor, but those posts took weeks of work from the three of us
I don’t think you’re going to get much useful discussion just by saying ‘discuss’!
by Graham on May 27, 2009 10:50 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
a cookie!
Nice Guys Finish Third - My semantics are a waste of time.
by pdb on May 27, 2009 10:59 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
mmm
St. Louis Cardinals... defying win expectancy since 2008
by vivaelpujols on May 27, 2009 5:14 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
No offense taken. I can see why this post can be seen as senseless DRB-fanpost-esque rosterbation
In the future, I’ll provide more a prompt and/or specific issue.
by Taylor H on May 27, 2009 10:54 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
While Graham/Matthew's point is correct, don't worry about it too much.
I’ve noticed that you’ve picked your game up a bit lately.
Experience always wins out in the end!
I don't know how to stop.
by esoteric on May 27, 2009 11:24 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah, it's not that the topic itself is bad
It’s just that it draws in stupid so effectively, especially when it’s so open-ended. This is generally a problem for mods.
Maybe pick a specific player/team and have some limitations (ie., not on 25 man or not on 40 man) to avoid a lot of the ‘I think we should get Hanley Ramirez’ crap.
by marc w on May 27, 2009 11:33 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
It's nothing personal against DRB fanpost rosterbation.
I just……. http://www.draysbay.com/2008/12/14/692227/are-we-done
Heh.
by Taylor H on May 27, 2009 12:30 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Did he really take a picture of his screen with a camera?
You got slurved!
Free Tommy Hanson! Free Jeff Clement! Free Michael Saunders!
by Slurvey on May 28, 2009 9:59 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
This comment assumes I hate pornography.
I can assure you I do not. Rosterbate away mighty Triumvirate!
Fear the NPE
by thewyrm on May 27, 2009 10:55 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I hear a lot of you say that you would trade Bedard immediately.
Of course at this point, everyone is up for grabs so to speak. But why is everyone so adamant about trading Bedard? Is the possibility of injury frowned upon that highly? I would think that any player in any position could be injured at any time. Why so much emphasis on his injury prone-ness?
I guess I would just like to see us have a good one-two in our rotation. And Bedard seems pretty solid to me. Is he valued too high? Contract issues?
I tend to skim over rosterbation threads since it’s all speculation. And it still is, but it would seem it’s becoming more and more relevant lately.
by d0nkey on May 27, 2009 3:50 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Bedard is gone after the year and we'll get the best return by trading him
He’s also incredibly injury-prone – moreso than most non-Harden pitchers in the league. So with Erik pitching well right now, and the team fading from contention, the best move is to strike quick and move him soon, before he gets a chance to reduce his value, and before the market gets flooded with pitchers from other teams.
There’s also the chance that moving him now, as opposed to July, brings us a better package, since the other team would have him for longer.
by Jeff on May 27, 2009 3:57 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
This kind of also goes for Washburn, too
except he’s less injury-prone and more suck. But his trade value is only going one way from here.
by eponymous_coward on May 27, 2009 4:07 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah, him too
although Washburn’s more of a known commodity, so teams aren’t going to be as easily influenced by his hot start.
by Jeff on May 27, 2009 4:13 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I think Bedard is a known commodity too, though.
Great guy at the top of your rotation while healthy, but body made of glass.
In addition, Washburn has an oh-so-sexy ERA title in 2005 AND a career year in 2002 that led to a ring that will make some GMs go “OK, I can use a guy like this to win a title as a 3-4-5 if my defense is good- clearly this is one of the hot years he has every so often”.
Did I mention lately how happy I am that GMZ improved the OF defense?
by eponymous_coward on May 27, 2009 4:25 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I think Z could manipulate a dumb GM to trade for Washburn.
I mean, he some how turned JJ Putz, Sean Green, Jeremy Reed, and Luis Valebuena into our two starting outfielders, our 2010 first baseman, a potential starter in 2010, and I am sure I am forgetting some other spare parts.
by Fin on May 27, 2009 4:36 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Well, he's not complete crap, like say, Beluga Tits or Silva are at this point.
Washburn IS an OK back-of-rotation starter. You know what you’re going to get from him :190 innings of rotation filler, with every so often a good year when he’s backed with a good OF defense/tweaks his pitching motion/randomly gets lucky.
Basically, Washburn is the discount store version of Jamie Moyer we love to hate because he’s a douche- a lefty where you go “how can he possibly have a career throwing that crap”, and then you look up and he’s pitched another couple of years.
I don’t think you will get a LOT for him, but maybe a useful prospect? Sure. And it wouldn’t be a stupid move for a team that has sufficient OF defense, needs some help at the back of the rotation, and doesn’t play in a park that will kill a LH finesse pitcher (or can score 7 runs when Washburn gives up 6 in 5 IP).
by eponymous_coward on May 27, 2009 4:41 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Speaking of Moyer
I think I read a comment on USSM (I know it was probably a comment made by a turd) but someone mentioned the possibility of getting Moyer again. I don’t know if it was pure fantasy speculation, but this I would love.
Any validity to that claim?
by d0nkey on May 27, 2009 5:00 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
None. Not going to happen.
Moyer is in his home city and got to win a world series there. He loved Seattle too… but this is his “riding off into the sunset years.” And he’s barely an adequate starter in the NL at this point. He’d get destroyed in the AL.
by johnbai on May 27, 2009 7:01 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Moyer looks like he's completely finished. I bet he'd consider coming back to Seattle if he were released, but i doubt we'd have interest.
by Poochie on May 27, 2009 8:18 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
And as much as he likes the area, he moved to Florida.
His house in Magnolia’s for sale, he’s bought one in Fla. – I’m just not sure how much Seattle would have a leg up in signing him as a FA anymore.
by marc w on May 28, 2009 8:59 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
What I meant was
with Washburn, everyone’s going to see him as a consistent veteran, and there’s not much mystery. With Bedard, though, his value could easily change from week to week, and for that reason it’s important for Z to get his feelers out there when Bedard is seemingly at or around his peak.
by Jeff on May 27, 2009 5:31 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah, I could agree with that.
I tend to think that Bedard won’t be peaking until a scout can see him go deeper into a game (like 8th-9th inning), though.
by eponymous_coward on May 27, 2009 5:43 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Ehh
The stamina thing is a known issue around the league. He’s averaging better than 6 IP a start so far, he’s exceeded 100 pitches in six of nine, and today was the fourth time he’s pitched into the seventh. This is about as good as Erik’s ever going to do in that regard.
by Jeff on May 27, 2009 5:50 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I invested more time into research.
I hand-counted.
by Teej on May 27, 2009 5:54 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
In 134 career starts, there have been eight instances where Bedard pitched more than 7 innings.
He’s never been able to go deep into games. He’s unlikely to start now.
by Teej on May 27, 2009 5:52 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Bedard, unlike Washburn, doesn't like to pitch when he's ineffective
He pulls himself when he’s tired or hurt… which means he puts up great numbers when he plays. Washburn is pretty good when he’s healthy and clicking but plays through pain and injuries all the time causing him to put up suck.
by johnbai on May 27, 2009 7:03 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I think that is a great quality.
Is there a reason besides pride, why pitchers would play when they are ineffective or hurt? I would imagine Morrow or Silva would be a bit lower on the list of mariners I hate if they were just open and honest.
by d0nkey on May 27, 2009 7:57 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
You are generally considered a massive vagina if you pull yourself out a game
by johnbai on May 29, 2009 5:27 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Oh I understand that.
But if it were me, I would do what’s best for the team. I would expect to be considered a pussy, but it wouldn’t matter if I helped the team get a win by doing it.
by d0nkey on May 31, 2009 10:29 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Okay, I understand his value now vs. his value later.
Is there zero chance of keeping him around after this season? If there is, would we even want to sign him for what he is worth? How did we acquire him? I would assume that the rest of the league knows about him being injury-prone, wouldn’t that factor into what we could get from him?
Or is this a no-brainer simply because a) His contract is up at the end of the season and b) He IS good and could potentially be extremely valueable to a team competing for the post-season that would only want him for the remainder of the season?
I think that last sentance answered my question thanks d0nkey.
by d0nkey on May 27, 2009 4:23 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'll try to be proper
I’ll mention three teams for each player I propose trading
Market for Bedard: Philly, Milwaukee, ChiSox.
Market for Beltre: SanFran, StL, LAA (I have no qualms dealing Beltre to the Angels)
Market for Branyan: NYMets, SanFran, Boston (a stretch)
Market for Washburn: StL, Minn, Milwaukee
Market for ICHIRO: ChiSox, NYYankees (yep), NYMets
Except in the case of Ichiro, we aren’t going to get top-of-system players. No Colby Rasmus, no Gordon Beckham, no Fernando Martinez, no Madison Bumgarner.
Further, I don’t think one should limit targets to needs in trades, just like in the draft. However, if there are two areas where this farm system is woefully thin, it is upper-level starting pitching and middle-infield depth (especially if Triunfel is moved to 3rd at some point). We may want to add another catcher as well.
As for timelines, I agree that Bedard, Washburn, and Branyan need to be dealt soon. As for Beltre, I think we have to wait until near the AS Break in hopes that he begins to return to his career norms. And as for Ichiro, you can trade him at any time in 2009. – his value won’t change barring injury.
Note re: Ichiro – I pretty much echo USSM’s post from last week re: trading Ichiro, his value can only go down from here.
by tait644 on May 27, 2009 4:15 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
It also seems a stupid point to discuss
since Ichiro isn’t likely to go anywhere no matter what offer Zduriencik can get.
by Matthew on May 27, 2009 4:21 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Isn't trading Ichiro! like the Yankees trading Jeter?
It just wont happen?
by d0nkey on May 27, 2009 4:25 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Like sex with Kobe Bryant
St. Louis Cardinals... defying win expectancy since 2008
by vivaelpujols on May 31, 2009 12:40 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I don't know what is more frustrating
Meeting these comments each time you even use the words “trade” and “Ichiro” in the same sentence, or the fact that they might be 100% true.
by tait644 on May 27, 2009 4:27 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
There's pretty much no realistic scenario in which trading Ichiro makes sense for the team anyways.
And discussing inevitably brings morons out of the woodwork.
by Matthew on May 27, 2009 6:11 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Hm.
http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=2941080
The seven-time All-Star and six-time Gold Glove outfielder maintains the same limited no-trade clause he had in the $44 million, four-year deal he signed before the 2004 season. In his current deal, Suzuki can pick 10 teams to which he can’t be traded without his consent.
Wonder which ones those are.
by eponymous_coward on May 27, 2009 4:31 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
That quote is my favorite by anyone, ever.
Seriously. The fact the guy can say whatever he wants and have it be amazingly humorous and true is great.
by Kirkharbaugh on May 27, 2009 11:05 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Dave Cameron said Ichiro projects to be worth 3.5-4 win per year through 2012, his last contract year
He’s been worth 5 wins a year since 2001, and he looks like he’ll age quite well. Even if the free agent market stays cool and keeps 1 win worth ~4.5 million until 2012 (actually, that figure will almost certainly go up), that makes Ichiro’s 17 million per year through 2012 a fair market deal – WITHOUT the millions in Japanese tv, tourist, and merchandise revenues that Ichiro brings (I’ve never seen them quantified, but they’re substantial). He’s an outstanding value any way you slice it. The point is that if an offer that’s worth more than all that comes along, GMZ should consider taking it if the ownership lets him.
by Decatur on May 27, 2009 6:44 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
If I remember, his point was also that we have a plethora of potential outfielders
So even though Ichiro may have high value to us, we have people that can at least be adequate replacements and possibly get upgrades at other positions to make the trade more valuable.
Or, more mathematically, if Ichiro is 3.5 wins, and you trade him for a 2.5 win shortstop, and Michael Saunders performs adequately, if we assume Betancourt is ~-1 win, Michael Saunders is ~2 wins, then we actually gain 2.5 wins from the upgrade, despite the player we got in return being worse than the player we traded. At least, I think that was the whole idea.
...and now I'm here
by Librocrat on May 27, 2009 7:05 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Exactly. That's what I was trying to get at.
I just thought tait644’s “I pretty much echo USSM’s post from last week re: trading Ichiro, his value can only go down from here” was a little off the mark concerning Dave’s conclusions, so I wanted to put my two cents in.
by Decatur on May 27, 2009 7:15 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Although trading Ichiro for only a MLB-ready average upside shortstop would be silly,
since we aren’t contending this year and should get alot more than a projected 3 WAR (~what Dave does with the future forty) in exchange for a 3.5-4.0 WAR megastar revenue machine like Ichiro.
by Decatur on May 27, 2009 7:18 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Probably. Though there is a lot of talk about him being undervalued as well.
So who knows. That’s GMZ’s job. At least the math is interesting that just one MLB shortstop can equal several more wins. Assuming one of our backup outfielders pans out, of course.
...and now I'm here
by Librocrat on May 27, 2009 7:30 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I would say the Cardinals are more likely to trade for Branyan then they are for Washburm
by Poochie on May 27, 2009 8:20 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
So you're saying the Cardinals want to trade first basemen with us?
Jose Lopez roxxorz my boxxorz.
51!
by joof on May 28, 2009 3:21 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
No I'm saying that Russel Brayan has played the majority of his career at third base
and they could be in the market for a 2 month fill in
by Poochie on May 28, 2009 8:51 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I think we could get Martinez in a deal with Bedard.
"If your good at something never do it for free." - The Joker
by houseofprime on May 28, 2009 1:40 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Another question I have for the sexy people..
I only read LL. The only baseball I really have an interest in is what goes on with the Mariners and I simply do not have the time or energy to follow other teams in the league like you all might.
With that said, and staying on topic, are there other teams at this point that are looking to make moves? Possibly some teams that have underachievers like we do where both parties might be looking for a simple change of scenery?
It seems pretty obvious that Lopez and Yuni suck and nobody would trade anything of value for them, but my question is whether or not there are other teams with similar junk that might perform better given a different ballclub to play for and perhaps a trade coule be proposed?
Thanks
by d0nkey on May 27, 2009 4:41 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
An article in the Chron says the Gigantes are looking hard at Beltre.
by Paytheline on May 27, 2009 5:15 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Do the Giants have any good farm players worth trading?
by Fin on May 27, 2009 10:09 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yep.
Dave Cameron wrote this in the Trade Ichiro!? post. Not gonna get all these guys without Ichiro, of course, but one or two for Beltre and or Branyan would suite me just fine.
Some kind of package that includes Ichiro and either Beltre or Branyan should appeal to the Giants quite a bit.
And thankfully, they’re loaded at the positions we need help at. You won’t get any of the Bumgarner-Alderson-Posey-Villalona prospect group, but their next tier includes Nick Noonan (20-year-old LH hitting second baseman), Conor Gillaspie (21-year-old LH hitting third baseman), and Ehire Adrianza (19-year-old switch hitting shortstop), as well as Scott Barnes (21-year-old LHP).
If the Giants would put together a package of Jonathan Sanchez and two or three of those guys, the rebuild could be shot into hyperdrive.
by Decatur on May 27, 2009 10:16 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
The giants suck. Why would they be trying to improve in the short term?
by johnbai on May 29, 2009 5:29 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
They're a .500 ballclub with tremendous pitching. They would seem to the untrained eye to have a reasonable shot at the wildcard.
(Or at least if Sabean doesn’t look PECOTA). Plus, they don’t have to part with any of their top 5 prospects to get what they want.
by Decatur on May 29, 2009 6:03 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Well, that helps. Thinking of it that way.
They could put Pablo Sandoval at 1st… Murder Travis Ishakawa in his sleep, and then pick up a guy like Beltre to play third. And given their farm, I guess I could see them trying to make a move so long as they don’t have to give up premium prospects.
by johnbai on May 29, 2009 8:29 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
The Cards need a third baseman
What would it take to get Beltre?
St. Louis Cardinals... defying win expectancy since 2008
by vivaelpujols on May 27, 2009 5:16 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I think Beltre is a hard move to make.
It is my understanding that we don’t really have anyone to takeover 3B should we decide to trade him. Am I wrong here?
I would think that any trade involving Beltre would have to include someone we could use to play 3B right? Last I remember hearing was Tui was our only other option and Cedeno looked like he sucked at the hot corner.
Correct me if I’m wrong.
by d0nkey on May 27, 2009 5:20 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Doesn't really matter that much since Beltre is gone next year anyway any trade concedes the rest of 2009
but yeah, it would be nice to get a 3B back anyway, since we kinda need one.
by Jeff on May 27, 2009 5:33 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Are you saying that there is zero chance of resigning Beltre after this season?
Or will his cost be too high for us?
by d0nkey on May 27, 2009 5:36 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Not a zero chance
but a slim chance. He hasn’t exactly had the best experience in Seattle, and he probably wants to win a championship sometime soon.
by Jeff on May 27, 2009 5:38 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
That makes sense.
Given our history, there is a good chance that could happen for him. Maybe that’s what brought him to us in the first place
by d0nkey on May 27, 2009 5:40 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
There's also the matter of Beltre being 30 years old
I’m not even sure if I’d want to bring him back. Kind of depends on how he does the rest of the year, I guess.
Beltre’s going to see this team unload some veteran parts this summer. He may even be one of them. He doesn’t want to play on a team that’s rebuilding anymore, so even if Zduriencik wanted him to return, he’d have to be pretty damn persuasive.
by Jeff on May 27, 2009 5:52 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
If he keeps Beltreing it up and the FA market is similar to last season, I can see him taking a one year deal.
In that case I’d be all over it.
by acblue on May 27, 2009 6:21 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
If he's taking a 1 year deal in order to get a better contract in the future,
he’s definitely not coming back to Safeco.
...and now I'm here
by Librocrat on May 27, 2009 6:24 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Would you take David Freese?
St. Louis Cardinals... defying win expectancy since 2008
by vivaelpujols on May 27, 2009 9:29 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
What if
the Cards gave back a prospect at 3B, Allen Craig or David Freese (obviously not Wallace)?
by JBagKY on May 28, 2009 8:00 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Freese isn't a prospect
Craig is slightly more interesting but still is a 24 year old righty who’s apparently decided to stop hitting this year. I don’t know about either’s defence but I would not be pleased.
by Graham on May 28, 2009 8:07 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Word around the campfire is that Freese's defense is ok.
by Poochie on May 28, 2009 8:52 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Plus
Freese is 27, not 24. He had an easy shot to win the thirdbase job, but lost to Brian Barden, got sent down and hit poorly for 80 at bats then got injured and had ankle surgery . He’s not really a prospect, he’s more of an interesting AAAA guy who could be a decent reserve or short term fill in. My guess is his upside is something like a league average player.
by Poochie on May 28, 2009 8:57 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Freese is actually pretty good
His defense is supposed to be amazing and he has a decent ammount of pop. His plate discipline is the only problem, but it isn’t horrible. His peak is likely something near the current Adrian Beltre.
St. Louis Cardinals... defying win expectancy since 2008
by vivaelpujols on May 31, 2009 12:43 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
peak
doesn’t mean he has a reasonable shot of reaching it
St. Louis Cardinals... defying win expectancy since 2008
by vivaelpujols on May 31, 2009 6:49 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I don't know what the Cardinals are going to do with Wallace
most reports are that he has the range of a flagpole, and he’s already being blocked by a fairly good player at first.
by Poochie on May 28, 2009 9:05 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I think he's going to get a shot.
His range looked fairly poor, but hey, so did Tui’s, and people still want him to get a shot. You just assume his bat makes up for it…. and I think it probably will.
And this is why I think the Cardinals don’t make a ton of sense as a trading partner. They’ve got an option in AAA, so if Seattle asks for too much, they can easily walk away.
by marc w on May 28, 2009 9:08 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Unless you're offering them Bedard
I don’t see them making a play on Beltre unless they know Glaus is done for the season, in which case Branyan would make more sense because he’s more flexible as a bench player and their offense has been completely impotent since Ankiel and Ludwick hit the DL.
by Poochie on May 28, 2009 9:14 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Exactly, which is why I just don't get the Cards as a trading partner
If they want Branyan to add OBP/power and punt defense a bit, then they could essentially get 90% of that package by calling up Wallace. Both of them could play 1B, and both of them really shouldn’t play 3B.
Washburn, hey, I don’t know. But their rotation’s been fine, and there’s always Mitchell Boggs.
So, uh, yeah, the Cards don’t seem to be a good fit for anything we have to offer right now.
by marc w on May 28, 2009 1:21 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Wallace has been at AAA for 15 mintues
I doubt they want to start his clock to use him as a utility player.
by Poochie on May 28, 2009 2:13 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Would you rather start the clock on Wallace prematurely or lose Wallace from your system all together?
by abender20 on May 28, 2009 2:36 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Er, correct, no one's arguing that Wallace should be a bench bat this year.
Just that his presence in AAA means the Cards probably wouldn’t offer much of anything for either Beltre or Branyan.
Bedard would net more, but the Cards seem to be in the enviable position of having some depth in their rotation. I’m sure you’d love to upgrade from Wellemeyer, but I’m guessing they could do that with Boggs. Would Bedard add value? Yeah, but I think there are richer/dumber/needier teams out there.
by marc w on May 28, 2009 2:54 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I don't get it then
either Beltre or Branyan would be a to the end of the season rental. Wallace isn’t ready to play everyday so I don’t see how his presence changes anything.
by Poochie on May 28, 2009 7:51 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
We've already seen the Padres, White Sox, and Brewers get active
and there are teams in the NL like the Braves, Phillies, and Cubs who’re looking to change things up at a couple positions right now.
by Jeff on May 27, 2009 5:34 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Do any of these changes happen to be left handed bat swingers?
by d0nkey on May 27, 2009 5:39 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Kelly Johnson is available, and as Dave brought up a few days ago, Mike Fontenot's an intriguing possibility
by Jeff on May 27, 2009 5:46 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Mike Fontenot's really good
I hope that Hendry doesn’t know about BABIP.
St. Louis Cardinals... defying win expectancy since 2008
by vivaelpujols on May 27, 2009 6:54 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Trade Yuni for the moon, trade that for a boat with T-Pain on it and then you work a 30 team trade with T-Pain as the centerpiece of the deal and the boat as a sweetener.
You got slurved!
Free Tommy Hanson! Free Jeff Clement! Free Michael Saunders!
by Slurvey on May 28, 2009 10:03 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Send Kyle Resse Back To Protect Asdrubal Cabrera
From being traded, then wouldn’t have to deal with JLo and Yuni!
by Crooklyn Banks on May 30, 2009 4:42 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
ideas
Ship Yuni and Washburn to the Mets for Olli Perez and Maine. Beltre to the White Sox for Jermaine Dye and Jenks. Cut Sweeney. Call up Clement or trade him for another stick.
Josh Normand
by Jmnor8 on Jun 1, 2009 9:59 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
It IS Kenny Williams and Omar Minaya we're dealing with, after all...
by Decatur on Jun 1, 2009 10:34 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Dye and Jenks!
They’re just the ticket!
by acblue on Jun 1, 2009 10:45 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
That would be such an amazing trade for everyone involved!
by acblue on Jun 1, 2009 11:03 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
You are mistaken. Many projections show Dye to be barely replacement level before the season
as to throwing in jenks, well I have to disagree it would be a baffling trade for everyone involved.
by Poochie on Jun 2, 2009 1:38 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
"Projections". Dude, Jermaine Dye is a sweet hitter.
He has power, he has a proven track record of hitting homers and driving in runs, and he makes only had one error last year.
by abender20 on Jun 2, 2009 9:53 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Ugh. You stat nerds are all the same.
Don’t you know that some players have intangible strengths, strengths like grit and hustle and drive, that can’t be expressed as statistics? God. You make me sick.
by Taylor H on Jun 2, 2009 10:29 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
















