On Ichiro and Walking
I am an Ichiro fan. I want to see him succeed, I want to see him break records, and I want to see him in the HOF.
The man makes millions of dollars per year, his jersey is the most popular baseball jersey in Seattle, there's a museum dedicated to him in Japan, and broadcasters routinely refer to him as a future HOFer. This is a man I never feel the need to defend from internet tough guys who act as if his negatives are so horrible that he should be sent down to single A. But there's one criticism that merits real discussion: never drawing walks.
So are walks that big of a deal? If your job is to get on base, who cares how you do it? Well, let's take a look at the AL's leadoff hitters this year, sorted by various categories: (I've left out the WhiteSox, because they're sort of rotating leadoff guys at the moment).
via i40.tinypic.com
As of 5/19/09, we see that Ichiro is leading in batting average, tied for third in hits, smack dab in the middle for OBP, and at or near the bottom in RBI, BB, and R. I know that Ichiro missed a few games early in the season, but I don't feel it was enough that these comparisons aren't fair enough for our purposes. Anyways, there's lots of interesting analysis here that I will leave up to you all. But here's some things I want to kick start the discussion with:
1) Clearly, OBP does not guarantee runs. There are guys with OBP's lower than Ichiro's, and yet have scored more runs. Orlando Cabrera has a dismal OBP of .283 but he's scored 3 more runs than Ichiro. However, Marco Scuturo will tell you that it's no surprise that the highest OBP in the AL has also scored the most runs. (.415 OBP, 36 runs). The more often you're on base, the more chances to score.
2) Looking at the list sorted by walks, it's interesting that there are so many low batting averages who augment their OBP by drawing a high number of walks.
3) Looking at the list sorted by hits, it's interesting that there are hitters with much lower batting averages than Ichiro, and yet have nearly as many hits.
Let's compare Ichiro vs. Scutaro, the best BA vs the best OBP:
The difference between Scutaro's BA and OBP is .131 points. For Ichiro, it's .037. Scutaro drew 28 more walks, scored 22 more runs, and has 1 less hit than Ichiro. Clearly, one can still get a lot of hits while drawing a lot of walks.
But let's not hop on the un-crowded anti-Ichiro bandwagon just yet! Taking a look at the best BA's right now, we see that a LOT of batters do not have a huge discrepancy between their BA and their OBP. Keep in mind, that list is mostly middle of the order guys, who draw a lot of intentional walks.
So to Ichiro I say: if Marco Scutaro can get on base 41.5% of the time, so can you.
Let's try an experiment! For one week, try to draw as many walks as possible. The only exception: a meatball right down the middle. If you get one of those, send it hell. Other than that, work the walk. Let's see if OBP goes up while BA stays the same, or if OBP stays the same while BA goes down.
And if it does work out, don't fall in love with the walk. Because you'd never get me to pay for a ticket to the Walk Derby during All-Star Weekend. But when you're about to make the record books with hit #200 for the ninth year in a row - I am SO there!
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Ichiro is so good at hitting pitches out of the zone that walking is often pointless for him
and at age 36 he sure as hell isn’t going to change
100% Correct. It is too late for him to change.
Do I wish he walked more? Yes I do, but he does a damn good job doing things his way so what the hell.
There are hitters that have changed their approach as they have aged.
Saying that someone cannot change is short-sighted.
Can you give me evidence of someone doing it after the age of 35?
I have never seen that happen so I would love to know.
Why in the world would you ever look at counting stats for this is beyond me.
Runs scored? Really? Those are massively team-dependent.
RBIs mean nothing. Nothing.
Total hits is going to be skewed by Ichiro missing the first eight games of the year, which is roughly 10 to 11 hits worth for him, thus putting Ichiro well above your attempted point in #3.
It’s a decent effort at quantifying things, but you are working under some false assumptions and making some misleading connections.
I agree with the correlation between RBI's and a leadoff hitter
That is not their job to drive runs in. Their job is to get on base and get around to score in the best means possible.
I don't care how well he does for the M's...FUCK ENDY CHAVEZ
I also think there is still small sampling to be dealt with so far
Anyone who knows Ichiro knows he’s started seasons pretty slow
If you're going for overall offensive contribution, the stat you should be measuring this guys by is probably wOBA (weighted On Base Average)
Read Dave Cameron’s explanation of it here. Basically, wOBA’s the best publicly available single stat for measuring offensive performance (accounting for slugging, OBP, baserunning, you name it) scaled to On Base Percentage, so a .300 wOBA sucks, .330 or so is average, .400 rocks, etc.
Ichiro is currently at .339 wOBA.
We’ll see if this picks up. I’m more puzzled by his .47 BB/K rate. Its the lowest of his career. His current 4.7% walk rate is the second lowest of his career (1st year was 4.2%, but given all the media entourage that dogged him, its a bit more understandable).
I wouldn’t be upset if Ichiro took a couple of pitches now and again.
Ichiro gets 200+ hits EVERY. SINGLE. YEAR.
I don’t think his problem is an inability to get on base.
Nice Guys Finish Third - My semantics are a waste of time.
Walks help guys who are not phenomenally talented natural hitters keep their OBPs up
Ichiro is a phenomenally gifted hitter. He doesn’t really need to run a 100 point iso to be an effective player.
Counting stats besides hits are completely irrelevant here – it’s not Ichiro’s fault the rest of the team can’t hit. Also, as Matthew pointed out, Ichiro missed 8 games – if you add 8 hits to his total (a very conservative number), he’s leading the league by a wide margin. I think he’s fine.
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So are walks that big of a deal? If your job is to get on base, who cares how you do it?
As you showed, Ichiro’s OBP this year is a solid .361. Some of the guys ahead of him include wonder-flukes Marco Scutaro (career: 2618 PA and 9.4% walks, 2009: 155 PA and 18.4% walks) and Coco Crisp (career: 3065 PA and 7.7% walks, 2009: 139 PA and 15.2% walks).
St. Louis Cardinals... defying win expectancy since 2008
RBIs are a stupid and fairly useless stat.
Plus, Ichiro could hit .500, but if his teammates can’t get him home, he might never score a single run. Runs depend on the guys behind you, unless you steal second, third, and home every time you get on base.
by .Taylor on May 20, 2009 8:03 AM PDT reply actions
Now I have a mental image of Ichiro carrying Beltre, Yuni, and Lopez on his back while stealing bases.
It’s so beautiful, and yet so sad. I wish you could see it.
by Kermit. on May 20, 2009 8:31 AM PDT up reply actions 5 recs
Actually it looks like a little asian dude humping 400 pounds of shit in a hundred pound sack.
But the sunset is playing beautifully off the clouds, doesn’t help much but there you go.
How about sorting them by wOBA?
That would show which of them is actually the best leadoff hitter. (Sorting by OBP is pretty close)
His inability to draw walks does hurt his overall contribution
but we probably just have to accept that as part of his game. Overall, he’s still a very valuable player.
Sort the OBP or WOBA stats from the last three years (rather than this year’s small sample size.) You ought to clearly see then that his gawdy hit totals make him slightly overrated, but that he’s still an upper echelon leadoff guy.
I didn’t realize how bad Sizemore and Ellsbury were at getting on base this year. Huh.
On this subject
Ichiro’s OSwing% / lgOSwing% ratio is the highest of his career, and his ZSwing% / lgZSwing% ratio is the second-lowest of his career. He has been swinging at way more shit than usual, and I wonder if it’s because he feels some pressure to lead a poor offense.
It wouldn't surprise me
If it happens to a patient hitter like Pujols, then it wouldn’t surprise me if it happens to Ichiro
His contact rate is also at a career high.
Not sure what it means, but at least I’m not worried about his bat skills declining yet.
Isn't this supporting the argument that he should draw some more walks?
He is on pace to walk about 28 times this year. Compared to his career average of about 48 walks. Small sample size for his walks up to this point obviously. But that, along with his swing% suggests that he will have a hard time getting to his usualy ~50 walks on the year. I’m not too good with calculating baseball stats, but I would think that losing about 25 walks would take a decent chunk out of his OBP right?
Correct
He should be taking more pitches.
by Jeff Sullivan on May 20, 2009 3:03 PM PDT up reply actions
The surprising thing is that he actually has been taking more pitches.
His pitches per plate appearance is a pretty good 3.91, whereas for his 9 year career in the majors it’s been at 3.59. That is a pretty huge difference and shows effort.
And Ichiro is unique. Lower skilled hitters like Yuni, Lopez, Beltre, yeah they got no fucking business hacking away at balls. Ichi is on a different level as a batter, and he has gotten great results consistently throughout his whole major lague career.
Someone said it well, that the people screaming at him to take more balls should take into account that there’s no guarantee his BA doesn’t drop because of a forced change in style. If it ain’t broken don’t try to fix it.
And one thing that bothers me about the TAKE TAKE thing is that opposing pitchers seem to feel safe in piping one down the middle for strike 1 to start off. It seems like Ichiro often starts ouit at this 0 and 1 disadvantage (call it a handicap for the pitcher) because of looking at the easy one go by. Even with this disadvanatge he’s hitting .320+ so yeah, I love him.
I read somewhere that his first strike batting average is awesomely high. I wish the media and others would just lay off preaching batting to a lifetime .330+ hitter. The time would be spent better reaming out hckers like Yuni, Beltre, Lopez, etc. Don’t try to require Ichi to try to fit in the same hole with those bums with the bat.
I don't want him to stand there with the bat on his shoulder
I’d just like him to take a few more balls. He’s swinging at more balls out of the zone than ever before in his career. That can be addressed without destroying his productivity.
by Jeff Sullivan on May 20, 2009 11:04 PM PDT up reply actions
I agree. I dislike him fouling off pitch after pitch out of the zone.
On that note, is there a way to see what the results are of the pitches he puts in play that are out of the zone? I bet it’s still remarkably high, but I’m curious.
I'm not sure about that.
Sometimes I think he swings just to check his timing, and has no intention of hitting the ball.
I like using semi-colons; they make me feel smart.
I wish Beltre would bunt. Bunt until the defense is forced to play up, at least even with the bag.
Every time I see him at the plate the defense is back with their heels on the outfield grass, he’s getting cheated. They’re giving him the infield and stealing his line drives, if I was him I’d be pissed. I’m just a fan and it pisses me off.

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