Report Card: Position Players, April
Record: 13-9
Position: 1st, 2.5 games up on Texas
PECOTA Playoff Odds: 35.4%
CoolStandings Odds: 32.5%
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DEFENSE
Source: FanGraphs. Standard caveats that this is only one measurement and a very small sample.
As a whole, the defense is playing exactly where we reasonably hoped that they would, near the top of the league. They are fourth overall behind the Rays, Brewers and Pirates. Franklin Gutierrez has been better than expected given we were mostly pegging him as a good center fielder, but right now he is playing out of his mind center field. Endy Chavez has been as advertised and the trio of Chavez, Gutierrez and Ichiro are covering almost the entire outfield.
Seriously. Flyballs are falling for hits just a tad over once per ten times. The league average BABIP on fly balls in .141. The Mariner outfield has saved eight hits from dropping in just 22 games. That's about seven runs of value, which projects to about 51 runs over a full season.
- Ichiro has been dinged by UZR so far for his arm, which we're pretty confident will reverse itself and head back toward positive territory as it's been in every season since 2002.
- Ditto probably Endy Chavez whose arm has never rated as well as Ichiro's but has been above average since 2005. I wouldn't be surprised to see him end up around average at season's completion.
- Adrian Beltre has had a few problems with some early errors, but he's still Beltre, 2nd overall in UZR (behind Joe Crede) and 2nd overall in Range (behind Ryan Zimmerman) amongst third basemen.
- Jose Lopez continues to put up average to slightly above defensive numbers, currently eighth among second basemen in Range and tenth in UZR. If he can hit like he did last season and maintain average or slightly better defense, he's close to a three-win player.
- Yuniesky Betancourt is terrible and continues to get worse on the field. He's heading toward below replacement level status as a player. Replacing him with an average fielding shortstop would have bumped the Mariners as a team up to second in the league in UZR.
- Russell Branyan can not only hit, but he can look not terrible in the field too. Bless you, Russ.
GRADE: A
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HITTING
2009 Mariners wOBA for April 2009. Source StatCorner.com
It's a good thing these guys can field (except for you, Yuni) because outside of Branyan, they have been sucking at the primary portion of their job. Second to last in baseball ahead of only Oakland (and thank you for that), the Mariner hitters are bad. The scary part is that they haven't even been unlucky really either.
Mariner hitters have a team BABIP of .295 and a team LD% rate of 18%. In fact, as far as run scoring goes, they've been lucky with a .335 BABIP with runners in scoring position. So while they are not due for regression from flukey categories, they are probably due for some improvement in the form of talent boosts. Adrian Beltre is a better hitter than this. Ichiro Suzuki always tends to start a touch slowly. Other than that though, we're looking at what our offense is likely to be. This team needs a hitting Jeff Clement at catcher in a bad way not only for match up purposes but also just to get more offensive upside in this lineup.
A key factor driving the offense down, and one that will hopefully start moving the opposite direction under Wakamatsu's harsh criticism, is the team's plate patience. At 3.63 pitches seen per plate appearance, the Mariners rank dead last in the American League and third worst in all of baseball (The Braves and Cardinals see fewer). There are some key players that I expect to help drive that number out of the basement.
- Adrian Beltre has seen just 3.27 P/PA which is far lower than his well established career norm of around 3.8. One of the reasons he's seeing fewer pitches? He's making contact at the highest rate of his career, whiffing on just 16% of his swings. That's good, now he just needs to get better at picking which pitches to swing at. ... ... ... Moving along.
- Jose Lopez might need to go back to the take until there's a strike edict he worked under at the start of last season. He's down over 0.4 pitches per PA this year. The good news is he's elevating the ball better without hitting into more pop ups and his contact rate is steady.
- He's never been much of a patient hitter, but holy crap Mike Sweeney, lay off some pitches dude. Pitchers aren't throwing you many strikes.
Aside from those three, there's some other random notes.
- An encouraging early sign from Wladimir Balentien who's taking 0.3 more pitches per PA over last year even as his contact rate has shot up over eight percentage points. He's doing a better job at laying off balls outside the zone this season and making contact with the pitches in the zone.
- In every season, Yuniesky Betancourt has swung at pitches outside the strike zone more often. This year he's taken it to a new level, offering at nearly 42% of pitches that would be called balls. Right now I cannot think of a single thing that Yuniesky Betancourt does well. Meanwhile, Ronny Cedeno has seen 4.2 pitches per PA and swings at balls just 30% of the time.
- Endy Chavez has a weird line so far this season. He's offering at fewer pitches than ever before, but also missing when he does swing at a dramatically greater rate as well, over 20% of the time compared to 11% last year and an established MLB rate of around 12 or 13%. Many of the pitches that he has been laying off are strikes, so he could do with swinging more often at those and connecting more often when he does swing.
- Rob Johnson hasn't been that terrible at the plate, even taking a good number of pitches. He hasn't been good either and given that his actual measurable defense skills are lacking, he looks like a solid backup at the Major League level, but not more than that for now.
GRADE: F
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I know the front office is new and sample sizes are small,
but how long do we have to patiently cut the org slack before it is appropriate to start worrying gravely about the presence of Sweeney, the lack of Clement, and the continued freedom of Yuni? Griffey’s spot in the batting order, in a vacuum, is terrible as well. I realize that we don’t really have better options anyway, so that’s probably fine to pass on. I’d give my middle nut to see Clement and Carp come up and attempt to prove themselves over players with no upside and skill defecits in Burke, Johnson, and Sweeney.
I really don't have a problem with Griffey hitting 3rd.
He’s a better hitter than this and 3rd isn’t as important in reality as it is in most people’s minds. As far as Clement goes, I think Dave Cameron’s assessment is right; there’s no sense in waiting for the org. to call him up and put him at C because it’s just not going to happen. I think that’s nuts, but there you go. I like Carp but since he’s probably not an upgrade at the moment I’m fine with him staying in Tacoma. He hasn’t shown that he doesn’t have anything left to learn in the minors.
As far as Yuni goes, yeah. If he keeps performing as poorly as he has so far and Wak keeps putting him in the lineup, my annoyance will turn to blind rage. If the Mariners had started poorly and it was looking like a lost year in terms of contention, I might not have a problem with it to see if he could regain some value in trade, but with the team not only in contention but leading the division, it’s infuriating.
by Aaron Campeau on May 1, 2009 1:21 PM PDT up reply actions
I don't have much problem with Sweeney.
I’d rather see Wlad get his PAs when he’s playing DH, but I’m not going to flip out over that.
As a dual response to both of you, I guess my frustration is really at the lack of options.
The potential of upside is always rosier than watching Sweeney’s slow-motion descent to retirement. It’s like getting off of a jammed freeway to take surface streets: even though you may average 25-30 on the slow freeway, it still feels better to zip down streets despite getting stopped at every light. Especially because we can be fairly sure there is zero upside in the bats of Sweeney, Burke, or Johnson, it’s a little disheartening to know that:
a.) The farm system doesn’t have the firepower to make any marked upgrades over them
b.) Someone like Clement, who could be the only chance at such an upgrade, is middling in purgatory for crimes unclear.
I do because he's terrible
I also recognize that it’s a minor problem
by JI on May 1, 2009 2:15 PM PDT up reply actions
These are the kinds of comments that make people laugh at statnerds
You’re overreacting to a bad month from Griffey. Preseason projections had him as a league average hitter, and the third best hitter on our team (behind Ichiro and Branyan). Even making an adjustment for his slow start, he’s still the third best hitter on the team going forward. Not moving him from the #3 spot is more a sign of intelligence than a sign of stupidity.
And you want Carp to come up and take Sweeney’s spot as the platoon partner for Branyan?
by davidcameron on May 1, 2009 1:32 PM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
That was the point of my comment about Griffey in a vacuum.
For a team not operating in a depressed run environment with a fairly awful lineup, Griffey would look even worse. I know he’s been unlucky and should bounce back some, but what is his approximate true wOBA ability at this point? Something like .350? That’s a pretty lousy pill to have to swallow from a DH.
And no, I don’t want to platoon two lefties together, but I can’t see Shelton performing worse than Sweeney over the course of a season.
Griffey is a league average-ish hitter.
That’s not an elite DH by any means but it’s not that bad.
by Aaron Campeau on May 1, 2009 1:50 PM PDT up reply actions
I'm willing to wait on Junior for a while, but Sweeney is starting to worry me a bit.
"Fights begin, finger prints are took, days is lost, bail is made, court dates are ignored, cycle is repeated."
Eh, Sweeney has been basically a league average hitter so far.
He’s not getting a ton of PAs, so it doesn’t bug me. I’d prefer Shelton or Wlad as DH vs. LHP but as long as Sweeney is productive it’s not a big deal.
by Aaron Campeau on May 1, 2009 1:55 PM PDT up reply actions
I haven't researched it much,
but it just seems we’d have some more flexibilty if someone else was in his spot, but it’s not a big deal.
"Fights begin, finger prints are took, days is lost, bail is made, court dates are ignored, cycle is repeated."
I appreciate his discipline and willingness to walk so far.
I just worry about his bat speed at this point. He’s looked pretty bad at times on some fastballs right in the happy fun fun zone.
Sure, but you kinda had to expect that.
The chances are good that he’s going to NOT look bad often enough to be valuable. I understand the concern to a certain extent, but sometimes aging hitters look like crap. It’s the nature of the beast.
by Aaron Campeau on May 1, 2009 2:04 PM PDT up reply actions
Sometimes young hitters look like crap.
Hell, sometimes I look like crap playing slow-pitch.
"Fights begin, finger prints are took, days is lost, bail is made, court dates are ignored, cycle is repeated."
Understood.
I also don’t think Griffey is due to a massive BABIP regression. Some sure, but a ton, no.
In my quest to validate, I’m looking at power hitters in the twilight of their careers. McGriff, Sheffield and Sexson saw their BABIPs drop off a cliff due to their aging. I’m still hunting down more of that type of player, but I suspect that this follows pretty logically.
Maybe.
Sexson 2008: LD% 18.2, BABIP .275
Griffey 2009 (SSS): LD% 18.2, BABIP .233
So there will be some. Also, I think (if I am not mistaken) that one of the reason BABIPs die off for older players has to do with GB%, since they are not going to be legging out any singles. And Griffey’s BABIP right now is 7% lower than Sexson’s was (though Sexson had a higher HR/FB than Griffey does/will). So it’s hard to tell, but I would think he has some regression coming, and his numbers are ~the same they have been the past few years, so there is nothing to indicate collapse.
...and now I'm here
Excuse me, his GB% is 7% lower.
...and now I'm here
A league average hitter who plays DH is the definition of a replacement level player
St. Louis Cardinals... defying win expectancy since 2008
by vivaelpujols on May 2, 2009 12:08 AM PDT up reply actions
I sense sarcasm
St. Louis Cardinals... defying win expectancy since 2008
by vivaelpujols on May 2, 2009 12:38 AM PDT up reply actions
It's almost as though I am aware of what the definition of replacement level player is
and my original comment was meant to be point out that replacement level production out of the DH spot is not the end of the world.
by Aaron Campeau on May 2, 2009 12:46 AM PDT up reply actions
Griffey might be our best on-base guy he have against RHP
by JI on May 1, 2009 2:18 PM PDT up reply actions
I just think we have bigger problems to fry is all.
by JI on May 1, 2009 2:35 PM PDT up reply actions
Given that the ability to do anything about Griffey is essentially zero, I agree.
Doesn’t mean it doesn’t tick me off.
Yeah but I don't really get why your ticked off because Griffey isn't really that bad.
by JI on May 1, 2009 2:49 PM PDT up reply actions
It's probably mostly irrational.
I’ve watched about 80% of the games so far, and I’ve yet to have faith in one of his at-bats after the first game or two. He has looked so horrific on so many swings that I just can’t stand watching him, even if he will occasionally hit one on the screws. The less he swings, the more I love him.
Carp bats from the left side.
Who should he be starting over, Griffey or Branyan?
So he would have to stay on the DL for 15 more days if he doesn't come off it today?
by .Taylor on May 1, 2009 1:45 PM PDT up reply actions
Sorry, I could have been more clear on this.
I don’t think he’ll return to starting today.
Is his leg still bothering him,
or so you think there is some other reason they wouldn’t put him back starting right away?
"Fights begin, finger prints are took, days is lost, bail is made, court dates are ignored, cycle is repeated."
"or do you think"...
Sorry, trying to multi-task and goof off at the same time.
"Fights begin, finger prints are took, days is lost, bail is made, court dates are ignored, cycle is repeated."
Hey, folks, just stopping by from LGT. I like this report card format a lot.
Question: Do your concerns about Yuni’s defense reflect on your view of the Gutierrez deal any? Or was Frank’s defense enough of a priority for this team that Valbuena was a reasonable price?
by fleerdon on May 1, 2009 2:12 PM PDT reply actions
I thought Valbuena played 2nd...
"Fights begin, finger prints are took, days is lost, bail is made, court dates are ignored, cycle is repeated."
So could WFB.
Was he any good at SS?
"Fights begin, finger prints are took, days is lost, bail is made, court dates are ignored, cycle is repeated."
He's basically never played SS
but it certainly looks like he could.
The Indians look like they’re playing him everywhere – 5 starts at SS, 11 at 2b and 4 at 3B.
So he's a utility guy for them right now,
or is he more of a “play somewhere new every day” Maclemore kind of guy?
"Fights begin, finger prints are took, days is lost, bail is made, court dates are ignored, cycle is repeated."
It's the minor leagues
and they’ve got no room for him in the majors. I think it’s great to play him all over the IF – means he could step in for anyone. I don’t think that’d be the plan for him long-term, but I have no idea….
Basically this. If he’s topside this year, it’s most likely because of an injury to DeRosa, Peralta, or Cabrera, so they want him ready to step in at any of those positions. I think the long-term plan for that infield is still the all-ex-Mariner double-play combo, but that would require moving Peralta to third or trading him, neither of which the Indians’ front office is ready to do.
by fleerdon on May 1, 2009 2:29 PM PDT up reply actions
When the ex-Mariner double-play combo finally takes the field together
I am going to get so unbelievable god damn drunk.
I know it’s coming, and I’m actually sort of excited for it, but on that day I will drown my pain in bourbon.
So did I, but he’s been playing a lot at short and third since Barfield got optioned down.
by fleerdon on May 1, 2009 2:22 PM PDT up reply actions
The M's toyed with the idea of moving him in the VWL, but didn't, I guess.
It was a possibility, and I think it would certainly influence how Indians fans viewed the deal.
And no, I don’t think Yuni struggling makes me think differently about this deal…. or not much, anyway. The Cabrera deal does, of course. The dropkick of Tug Hulett looks harder to understand now, on the other hand.
Someone else could chime in, but I hoped Valbuena could play SS but did not know.
We needed Gutierrez badly in CF so I am very happy with that deal. What I, and a few others, am hoping is that Cedeno gets a shot to play SS soon.
Fee Cedeno.
"Fights begin, finger prints are took, days is lost, bail is made, court dates are ignored, cycle is repeated."
I still think it was a great deal
but I wish we had parted with someone besides Valbuena because he exactly the kind of player this team could use right now.
by Aaron Campeau on May 1, 2009 2:20 PM PDT up reply actions
Well yeah but I almost would have rather traded a more valuable prospect that wasn't a LH middle infielder.
by Aaron Campeau on May 1, 2009 2:31 PM PDT up reply actions
Well that's queer
It’s not like we couldn’t have had Adam Kennedy for free.
by JI on May 1, 2009 2:31 PM PDT up reply actions
If he doesn't get real good real quick they have to stop that post haste
because we are hemorrhaging runs at 2B.
Skip for Yuni!
by JI on May 1, 2009 2:37 PM PDT up reply actions
Is Joe Thurston hurt or something?
Is he playing 2B, or are they sticking with that Ryan guy?
Well, there's your replacement 2B.
(I saw Ryan’s web gem or whatever and thought he might be getting more time there. Guess not.)
Tyler Greene? Maybe Greene to 2nd?
They seem to have a million interchangeable infielders, none of whom is going to produce too much at the plate, so it seems odd that they’d leave a black hole at one position.
That’s understandable, though I don’t know who else would have gotten the deal done for the Indians. We hadn’t traded for DeRosa yet, but even if we had, we still had a gaping organizational hole where the middle infield depth was supposed to be.
by fleerdon on May 1, 2009 2:35 PM PDT up reply actions
Yup.
Like I said, I don’t really regret it at all but it still hurts just a bit.
by Aaron Campeau on May 1, 2009 2:35 PM PDT up reply actions
"we still had a gaping organizational hole where the middle infield depth was supposed to be."
!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Trade ya your MIF depth, minus Valbuena, for ours!
Valbuena looked good but we basically traded young potential for young certainty
And at no point do I recall Valbuena —> SS being seriously entertained while he was Mariner property. So, no. I still miss the hell out of him, though.
by Jeff Sullivan on May 1, 2009 2:32 PM PDT up reply actions
He got into a game in September over there and it sounded like some wanted to play him there in 2009
but then all of those people lost their jobs and Valbuena was soon traded. So… yeah.
Interesting. I wonder if shifting him around is strictly an organizational need thing, or if the Indians have upgraded their evaluation of his defense since the deal. At the time of the trade, my impression was that he was a 2B-only guy.
by fleerdon on May 1, 2009 2:53 PM PDT up reply actions
That would really screw with my head
so I’ll just bow out. Thanks, everybody, for your insights. Have a good weekend.
by fleerdon on May 1, 2009 2:58 PM PDT up reply actions
I still think this deal has a ~20% chance of being the best trade in franchise history
Seriously. In terms of asset value:
Gutierrez is a +2 to +3 win player in his prime and making pre-arb money. That’s around a $20 million asset.
Carp has a decent chance to be a +2 win first baseman. He’s probably a $7 or $8 million asset right now.
Chavez is a +1.5 win player making $2 million. He’s a $1 or $2 million asset.
Vargas and Olson are both decent back-end starter options with a little upside. Probably $2 or $3 million apiece.
Cedeno is a +0.5 win player with a little upside. $1 or $2 million asset.
Carrera has a decent chance to be a +1 win outfielder. Another $1 or $2 million asset.
Cleto’s value has basically been wiped out since he can’t get a visa, but that wasn’t really predictable.
All told, the M’s got something like $35 to $40 million worth of value in return for a broken closer, a ROOGY who was easily replaced by waiver wire fodder, an outfielder who will probably be non-tendered after the season, and one good prospect. Valbuena would have to be the best prospect in baseball for this trade to not look good. .
What do you think is the best trade in team history?
by JI on May 1, 2009 3:12 PM PDT up reply actions
Langston for Randy Johnson + stuff
Phelps for Buhner is a nice honorable mention.
Moyer for Bragg is nice in terms of the 'giving zero of value away' POV
Phelps was actually good, but yes, that trade worked out amazingly well.
Incidentally, do we know WHY Cleto can't get a visa?
I saw Romeijn was put on the restricted list too – another visa problem?
Know? No
But 95% likely he lied about his name/age and was using fake paperwork to get his first visa, and got caught in the new crackdown.
Can you please explain what you mean by asset value?
Is it the $ value of their projected performance minus their salary?
Sort of
In a perfectly efficient market, where all 30 teams knew exactly how many wins each player was worth, and Gutierrez had to sign a 5 year contract, he’d get something like $35 to $40 million. The M’s will actually have to pay him something like $15 million for those five years. So he’s a ~$20 million asset.
Rinse and repeat.
by davidcameron on May 1, 2009 6:01 PM PDT up reply actions 1 recs

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