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How do you feel about GMZ?

Tiny by ColeFitz88 on Comment 171 comments

In light of the recent decisions regarding Brandon Morrow and Phillipe Aumont, how has your opinion of Jack Zduriencik changed? Personally I was ecstatic with his moves at first and I know he was dealt a shitty hand with this roster but he doesn't seem to be playing it very well either. Sure, Morrow might not have been able to handle being a starter with his diabetes, but maybe he should have traded him to a team that didn't know this.

 

 

Poll
What do you think of GMZ now?
Still on board, it's not his fault
67 votes
FUCK HIM WITH A RUSTY [Insert utensil here]
75 votes

142 votes | Poll has closed

0 recs  |  Comment 171 comments

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I'm still on board.

Aumont will be his fault, Morrow wasn’t.

by MFAN on Apr 5, 2009 8:17 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

Not happy. I hate this Aumont move. What I hate more is the reasoning GMZ

is using.

If he just came out and said “Yea this kid has elbow problems and can’t handle the workload” I could live with it.

This idea he doesnt want to wait 2-4 years for Aumont to mature as a starter, because he could be up sooner and be a key contributor to the pen is beyond stupid.

I was a Z supporter (although i still have some questions about the Morrow thing) and now after seeing this Aumont thing go down, I have to start to wonder if GMZ isnt being totally truthful about the Morrow situation.

How is Aumont any different than Brandon? Both are/were having some health issues making the transition to starter.. and appartently our new GM wants our talented guys to contribute right now in some capacity..

Leads me to believe, that the organization went to Morrow and did the same thing they are doing with Phillippe..

Sickening

by Rudy4three on Apr 5, 2009 8:18 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

It might have been influenced, unfortunately, by Aumont himself

http://blog.seattletimes.nwsource.com/mariners/index.html#040174

Aumont is said to be quite anxious to get to the big leagues. So, he’s apparently on-board with this plan.

Dead Cat's Bounce.

by Gomez on Apr 5, 2009 8:44 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Makes no sense.

Any agent knows that the money is in starting, not closing.

He’s only on board because its not a good idea to bitch about what your higher ups say.

"And you just don't get it, you keep it copacetic..."

by Blicks on Apr 7, 2009 12:27 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

How do you know this?

I’ve spoken to him a decent amount, and while he was loathe to be in the Pen last season, he has recognized that his health issues have caused him to limit the amount of time he pitches. How is this so hard for folks to understand? The dude isn’t a pussy, he’s the victim of a disease he didn’t go out and seek to get.

Illegible

by kevin_ess on Apr 10, 2009 4:18 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

HOLY SHIT! YES YES YES

AK is by far the best part. Should of thrown his sister in there as well.

by MFAN on Apr 5, 2009 8:20 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Woa.

You can't hide from the omnipresent eye.

by Goose on Apr 5, 2009 8:28 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

This is the greatest GIF I have ever seen.

This almost makes this God-forsaken day worth it.

by Decatur on Apr 5, 2009 8:41 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Ye gads.

This is wonderful.

by BrianL on Apr 5, 2009 11:41 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

I'd rec this as well but..

The counter is sitting at 69. I don’t want to disrupt cosmic harmony.

Fans are typically idiots.

by The Typical Idiot Fan on Apr 6, 2009 7:48 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

83. Hot damn.

"The dark secret of LL is that it only exists so I can one day moderate Graham" ---Robert

by Taylor H on Apr 6, 2009 4:41 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

I joined this site just so I can recommend this.

Funniest thing I’ve seen in a while

by NittanyCub on Apr 6, 2009 3:11 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

We need 5 more!

"The dark secret of LL is that it only exists so I can one day moderate Graham" ---Robert

by Taylor H on Apr 8, 2009 1:45 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

got it

St. Louis Cardinals... defying win expectancy since 2008

by vivaelpujols on Apr 12, 2009 1:13 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

I think Zduriencik rolled out of bed this morning, rubbed his eyes and said "fuck it, Aumont to the bullpen."

Just like that, sitting there in his boxer shorts before his first cup of coffee. Didn’t even pick up the phone to discuss it.

by Kermit. on Apr 5, 2009 9:27 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Well that wasn't supposed to be a reply.

But since it’s there, I would like that option also.

by Kermit. on Apr 5, 2009 9:29 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

I'm downright angry

The ability to sign Russell Branyan or pickup David Aardsma- yeah those are nice cute little moves, but Jeff Clement, Brandon Morrow, and Phillipe Aumont are potential franchise cornerstones and he’s fucking with them.

I’ll give him the benefit of the doubt with Morrow, but the actions with Clement and Aumont scare the shit out of me

Determined, Jonesing Commentor | Proud proprietor of Wyomingroutes.org & Washingtonhighways.org

by I'm NOT Corco on Apr 5, 2009 9:31 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

This.

Throw the snacks in the bag and I'm ghost like Swayze!
Preserved In All His Greatness - R.I.P. The Reignman 1989 to 1997

by JLProck on Apr 5, 2009 10:10 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

How many GMZ's are in FUCK FACE.

Hard work never killed nobody, but I won't take my chances.

by JAH on Apr 5, 2009 9:23 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

The Morrow thing is BS.

My family is full of doctors and diabetics, and they all attest that Morrow should have ample time between innings to regulate his blood sugar with insulin and whatnot. There’s gotta be some other motive to make Brandon a reliever, because his being diabetic is not a valid excuse.

"The dark secret of LL is that it only exists so I can one day moderate Graham" ---Robert

by Taylor H on Apr 6, 2009 12:08 AM PDT reply actions   0 recs

He said he likes relieving better.

If what you said is true, then I believe he is using his diabetes as a justification to not be in the rotation. Why does all of this doom and gloom have to happen before opening day?

by Fin on Apr 6, 2009 12:11 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

The night is darkest before the dawn, of course.

"The dark secret of LL is that it only exists so I can one day moderate Graham" ---Robert

by Taylor H on Apr 6, 2009 12:39 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

How many of them pitch?

Less specific, how many of them participate in regular strenuous physical activity?

Fans are typically idiots.

by The Typical Idiot Fan on Apr 6, 2009 8:06 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Jay Cutler != Brandon Morrow

People’s physiologies are different. People’s tolerance levels are different. It’s impossible to say “If Jay Cutler or Adam Morrison does it, Brandon Morrow can too!”.

Nice Guys Finish Third - Hopelessly lost, but makin' good time.

by pdb on Apr 6, 2009 9:17 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

But you went beyond naming and went to judgment

And the question was actually “does Taylor H’s diabetic family pitch or participate in regular strenuous physical activity”, which unless Taylor and Jay Cutler are brothers/cousins, didn’t answer the question anyway.

Nice Guys Finish Third - Hopelessly lost, but makin' good time.

by pdb on Apr 6, 2009 9:25 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Yeah, they do actually. My cousin plays tailback for his football team.

I mean, they have pretty harsh practices 3-4 times a week.

"The dark secret of LL is that it only exists so I can one day moderate Graham" ---Robert

by Taylor H on Apr 6, 2009 1:47 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Precisely

"The dark secret of LL is that it only exists so I can one day moderate Graham" ---Robert

by Taylor H on Apr 6, 2009 1:46 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

You can't know that.

Even with a family full of doctors and diabetics, you can’t possibly know what’s going on inside Brandon Morrow’s head, body, or heart.

Nice Guys Finish Third - Hopelessly lost, but makin' good time.

by pdb on Apr 6, 2009 8:11 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Fuck you, Paul.

I consulted with an entire hospital full of specialists, convened a top notch medical panel in Sweden and posed hypotheticals in varying types of meter to webMD and I can say with 144% certainty that Erik Bedard is a little women who could easily pitch through his limitations if he actually wanted to.

by Matthew on Apr 6, 2009 8:59 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Not enough inverted Ms in the pancreas

Jose Lopez roxxorz my boxxorz.
54!

by joof on Apr 6, 2009 12:24 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

I am fucking furious about this but anyone who thought everything from here on out was roses and kitten tocks is crazy.

We’re still so much better off than we were this time last year it’s not even funny. Be pissed, sure, but have some perspective as well.

by acblue on Apr 6, 2009 1:20 AM PDT reply actions   0 recs

That's not the point.

The point is we expected less stupidity, and we’re not getting it. We’ll never contend if GMZ is this stupid.

by Rollo Tomasi on Apr 6, 2009 8:50 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

It's not one bad decision.

It’s Aumont + Morrow + Clement + Sweeney; it’s a pattern of poor decision making.

by Rollo Tomasi on Apr 6, 2009 4:22 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Sweeney isn't that bad of a decision given that they were going to lose him if he didn't make the club

and Shelton is just sitting in AAA waiting for the call.

Morrow was his own decision, and I can’t blame GMZ for that.

I hated the Clement move, but oh well, it’s not like he won’t be up a little later in the season.

I reserve the right to judge the Aumont case until I hear a little more about it.

by seattlebruin on Apr 6, 2009 4:49 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Sweeney wasn't a big deal

but Morrow shouldn’t be allowed to make his own decisions on this issue. He works for the Mariners.

by Rollo Tomasi on Apr 6, 2009 5:36 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

.

"The dark secret of LL is that it only exists so I can one day moderate Graham" ---Robert

by Taylor H on Apr 6, 2009 8:11 PM PDT up reply actions   1 recs

DIE UH BEETIS

I want to poop at your house - Thingray

by tootthekazoo on Apr 6, 2009 8:25 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

It must have been hard for him

going through med school and playing pro baseball at the same time.

by Rollo Tomasi on Apr 7, 2009 12:14 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Morrow knows his body better than anyone else, doctors included

he may not be able to diagnose an exact problem as a doctor would, but he certainly knows what causes him pain and fatigue, and when he is experiencing those two states more than anyone else.

by seattlebruin on Apr 7, 2009 8:43 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Even if that's the case

the reasons for moving him to the bullpen didn’t seem to be about that. It was more about him enjoying relief more, and the club not wanting to be patient and wait for him to develop, just like with Aumont.

by Rollo Tomasi on Apr 7, 2009 10:18 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

What's the club supposed to say in the media release?

“Hi guys, I’d like to call this news conference to announce that Brandon Morrow is fundamentally broken and will remain so for his entire career, so we’re going to let him be a reliever instead of using him as a starter”

by seattlebruin on Apr 7, 2009 10:46 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Something to that effect

would have made me confident in their understanding of the value of starters vs. relievers. But, as it turns out, that confidence would have been misplaced, since they’re now screwing with Aumont.

by Rollo Tomasi on Apr 7, 2009 11:01 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

I'm disappointed, but I'm not angry over Aumont.

There have been quite a few opinions floating about that Aumont wasn’t going to be able to be a starter. I know it’s early in his development and we’re punting too soon, but maybe we have to accept that this was where the information that they have on Aumont is leading.

Or, perhaps Z is not keen on the idea of high risk players. Aumont was always seen a high risk / high reward type guy. High risk also means you may not get anything out of it at all, so why not do something with low risk even if the reward is only medium now? Better to get something then nothing. By the time you’ve realized that you’re not going to get max or even minimum benefit from Aumont starting, it might be too late (injury, etc) to get anything from him at all.

Fans are typically idiots.

by The Typical Idiot Fan on Apr 6, 2009 8:25 AM PDT reply actions   0 recs

I just think we're reacting too quickly without thinking.

Aside from soundbytes from the chief, we really don’t know what their reasoning is. My speculation is just my preferred way of rationalizing.

Fans are typically idiots.

by The Typical Idiot Fan on Apr 6, 2009 9:30 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Maybe for trade value?

That would be a stupid rational still, but could you imagine how much a cost controlled Pablebon would be worth on the trade market?

vivaelbeñsheets

by vivaelpujols on Apr 6, 2009 9:33 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

I would as well, but I don't think we're going to get any in public media sources.

You’re probably going to have to wait for the next USSM/LL Event and get it from the horse’s mouth.

I just think that the automatic rationalization being “FUCK!” and / or “stupid decision” should be reigned in a touch. This isn’t Bavasi, this isn’t the old regime, but we’re still so quick to judge.

Fans are typically idiots.

by The Typical Idiot Fan on Apr 6, 2009 9:37 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

I'm starting to question that.

I think some of us have gotten too used to being angry all the time. It’s almost become a meme to react with expletives without thinking.

Ah well, it helps the beer industry. Party on then.

Fans are typically idiots.

by The Typical Idiot Fan on Apr 6, 2009 9:50 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

I realize you're just being silly, but there is a difference here.

Pitcher attrition is pretty nasty. I’m still on board with Triunfel but Halman has too many holes in his swing for me to be giddy.

Fans are typically idiots.

by The Typical Idiot Fan on Apr 6, 2009 9:32 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

I'm going to ignore that.

You know as well as I do that there are differing levels of risk involved with even starting pitching prospects. Aumont’s risks were much higher for reasons that have already been ballyhooed since we drafted him.

Fans are typically idiots.

by The Typical Idiot Fan on Apr 6, 2009 9:39 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

He's 20 years old

It’s like the team is afraid to try to develop him.

by Jeff on Apr 6, 2009 9:55 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

I know.

It doesn’t make sense to me either.

Fans are typically idiots.

by The Typical Idiot Fan on Apr 6, 2009 10:10 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Perhaps at the big league level, but there's no guarantee Aumont will even be a successful reliever

the same injury/workload concerns are still there, and it’s not like being a bullpen guy is going to change the fact that he’s only pitched 50 professional innings since being drafted almost two years ago

by seattlebruin on Apr 6, 2009 9:07 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

No it isn't. There's no guarantees of anything.

Are we not sabermetrics guys? Do we not look at probabilities?

I agree with the general preference that we (meaning the team) should have continued to try to develop Aumont as a starter first and then convert him to a bullpen arm if and only if he shows that he can’t be a starter. What I am trying to portray here is that those in charge may have had a very good reason to punt on his development. We’re getting snippets of the reasoning, but there’s more to it than simply “he’ll be here sooner”.

Fans are typically idiots.

by The Typical Idiot Fan on Apr 6, 2009 9:44 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

You also can't build one taking only risks.

Which is what the Mariners farm system is loaded with. Eventually you have to start developing some players you can start counting on. Whether or not that means Aumont will turn into a bullpen ace like valuable commodity is where this is going to go.

Basically, value for Aumont, much like Morrow, is greater as a bad / mediocre starter than a good bullpen arm. But Aumont, much like Morrow, may be too risky as a starter due to health concerns. If your options then become a high probability of starting development equalling zero value due to injury or moderate probability of relief development equalling some value, which direction do you go?

Fans are typically idiots.

by The Typical Idiot Fan on Apr 6, 2009 9:48 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

We really don't have any legit starting pitching prospects now that this move has been made

So that entire, vital part of our future team construction is basically no risk/no reward. That’s a long way from only taking risks.

It doesn’t make any sense at all when we have no other good starting pitching prospects in the entire farm system and a lack of starting pitching depth NOW at the major league level to be giving up on our only legit prospect left because he carries some risk. Absolutely no sense whatsoever.

by OlSalty on Apr 6, 2009 9:53 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

We still have some starting pitching prospects.

Unless Ramirez and Pineda suddenly died and nobody told me.

Fans are typically idiots.

by The Typical Idiot Fan on Apr 6, 2009 10:11 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Maybe I'm just being irrational

Because I’m pissed off at the obvious redundancy of these moves and the obvious cost to the future of the team to have all of this talent squandered without even trying them out for a while at their most useful positions. I still don’t see any adequate justification for making this move in what you said though, because in the context of what this team needs and what it doesn’t need, it really really really needs starting pitching and it really doesn’t need another fucking closer.

by OlSalty on Apr 6, 2009 10:37 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Well, Pineda at least has shown he can go a full season.

Though I don’t think one shot and done with starting is a great idea.

I dunno, I always thought it made sense when the Angels did it with K-Rod. Even if he was putting up crazy K numbers as a starter and we didn’t have much else in the pipeline at the time. >_>; K-Rod though, was showing some signs of arm trouble throwing for a whole game, and actually DID have a frame, at 6’0" that would suggest he’d last longer in a relief role.

What I don’t understand is why you do it right after making Morrow, essentially, your closer of the future. You really only need one guy like that. Making Morrow the closer gives you the leeway, one would think, to take the risk on Aumont.

~Till the Halo burns out...

by Zu Long on Apr 6, 2009 10:46 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

I think maybe Jack Z and the organization have more information than we do

I’m willing to give them the benefit of the doubt on moves like Morrow, Clement and Aumont. Sure we’re fans, avid fans, and we get all the information we can, but at the end of the day, the things we can see are a sliver of the whole picture. Let me go move by move:

I get the feeling with Morrow, that they’re convinced he’s not going to be a starter, and that they took the best/easiest route to keep him useful in that event. You can’t force a guy to do something he doesn’t want to do or isn’t comfortable with and even if you could you probably wouldn’t get anything good from him. Not only that, but none of us really know shit about how his particular medical condition affects him, and aren’t we always pissed when someone plays hurt? In this case I think they deserve the benefit of the doubt.

As for Clement, it’s been pretty clear the entire time he’s been in the organization that he’s a catcher in name only. If the guys closest to him don’t think he’s got the chops to catch at the major league level, I trust their judgment. This is an organization (now) that values defense, and if his catching defense was bad enough that he needs more development, let him have it. Yes there’s a risk he won’t look great at the AAA level, but if that happens would we really have wanted him up on the big club getting exposed? Again, I think the guys closest to the situation get the benefit of the doubt here.

Now the tough one. Aumont is the kind of guy we all want to come up and dominate as a starter. I don’t know enough about this one to even try to justify this move, but honestly if you bring in a guy who is renown for his judgment of talent, and he makes a judgment call, I think your first reaction should be to trust him. We don’t know what he sees, or what he’s heard, but at the end of the day, this is just the kind of situation where I tend to trust the people with the most knowledge closest to the problem.

In the end, even if these are just dumb moves, I don’t think the sky is falling. Lets give Dr. Z a year, see where we’re at, and then make a slightly more rational call.

Of course if he trades Beltre…that’s another story.

by Smegmalicious on Apr 6, 2009 3:06 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

I didn't know that, but you can improve a ton and still not be good enough.

Also, they may think that he needs a couple more months of intensive work before those improvements become second nature. They could also have seen something legitimately wrong with his offense. My point is we don’t have access to the same info they have, and this is not Bavasi, it’s a smart capable crew trying to do their best.

by Smegmalicious on Apr 6, 2009 3:19 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

I agree with you

It’s just that the Aumont decision is so utterly baffling.

by Jeff on Apr 6, 2009 3:24 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Yup. I'm baffled too

But I’m a trusting soul. Who knows, maybe we’ll get lucky and he’ll develop a new pitch or two and they’ll see the light and he’ll become Felix 2, Electric Boogaloo..

by Smegmalicious on Apr 6, 2009 3:27 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

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