MLB.tv Condensed Games FAIL/MLB.tv Technical Discussion
by Decatur on Apr 21, 2009 4:06 AM PDT
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PrintUPDATE: I just changed the title to reflect that no one's really surprised or up in arms about this (and I'm not really either, since I'm still pretty thrilled with MLB.tv as is). However, there's some good technical discussion by Inkara1, Faux, and others about general viewing tips and the merits of the Hi-Def download.
I'm happy to report that I just bought a year-long, $110 subscription to MLB.tv Premium. I think pdb's lavish praise for it in this FanPost's comments is what sealed the deal for me. Unfortunately, I quickly discovered that the "Condensed Games" that MLB.tv advertised and promised me is kaput, and there's no ETA for when it will be up. I did some digging and found out why, which you can read below. Once you do, my question is:
Do the times call for the Lookout Landing version of this?
via media.southparkstudios.com
I just read through the "Condensed Games" thread the MLB.tv support forum, and it's pretty shocking how badly MLB.tv has been handling this.
Re: Condensed Games
by Dackle on Mon Apr 20, 2009 1:39 am
The advertisement on the website says "Archived and Condensed Games", and right next to it is a big yellow checkmark. I suspect that MLB Advanced Media is seeking to turn a profit by cutting corners left, right and centre, and that probably includes hiring only half of the required support staff. So, I think we should direct our wrath at the person who made the decision to skimp on hiring front-line service/admin/tech employees. The CEO of MLB Advanced Media is Robert Bowman, EVP Commerce and Sponsorship is Noah Garden, and the SVP and CFO is Ed Weber Jr. These are the people who need to be made aware of what's going on.
So, although I get the feeling that the front-line employees are overworked and underpaid, it's hard not to be frustrated by the way we've been treated. Here's a chronology of responses from mlbsupport re: the launch date of condensed games:
Apr 8: We hope to have condensed games soon.
Apr 8: I am waiting on an exact date and time but these should be up within a day or two.
Apr 9: Possibly tonight or tomorrow
Apr 10: We hope to have these tomorrow
Apr 10: Condensed games are scheduled to return next week
Apr 12: They will be available soon
Apr 13: Unfortunately I do not know specifically when they will return
Apr 14: Unfortunately I do not know specifically when Condensed Games will be available
Apr 15: These should be coming soon however I do not know specifically when
Apr 15: A specific launch date has not yet been set
Apr 15: We do not have an exact date as to when condensed games will be available, we are currently working to have them as soon as possible
Apr 16: Unfortunately we do not have a exact date as to when condensed games will be launch
Apr 17: Condensed Games will be returning this weekend
Apr 18: As soon as we find out we will make an announcement
Apr 19: Condensed games will become available soon. No eta yet
Here's a little history:
Re: Condensed Games
by daftcat75 on Wed Apr 08, 2009 4:02 pm
Condensed games didn't come until May or June last year.
MLB.com goes through this every year. April is rocky, and things start to settle down in May. It would be nice if MLB.com could build on their successes of the prior season instead of reinventing itself every season. Last year they went to Silverlight and Mosaic. This year it's Flash Media Server and a new Flash client. Can they stick with an architecture and a player for more than one season? It's no wonder they have rough Aprils. They do forklift upgrades every year. My hope is that the deal they made with Yahoo means they'll be doing this flash thing for at least another year before going on to the next shiny toy. Maybe if they did that they woudn't have as many glitches to work out next season.
Also, it appears that MLB.tv subscribers do not get their $110 refunded if they cancel their subscriptions. If this is the case, this just shocks me. See this post for more:
Re: Condensed Games
by redsoxfanUK on Fri Apr 17, 2009 12:36 pm
The "no refund" policy means that for those of us who pay for the year, it's pointless cancelling. Very clever.
Do you have an equivalent of a Trading Standards Authority or Advertising Standards Authority in the US? If so, you should be able to lodge a complaint at no cost to yorself. I'm seriously considering trying to claim for mis-sold goods through my credit card company, again, no cost....
MLB really do need to consider refunds to avoid loss of goodwill at best, legal action at worst. Oh and please don't do it in the form of a $10 shop credit - the international shipping rates would make that worthless!
Essentially, here is what's so outrageous:
Re: Condensed Games
by Moe on Sun Apr 19, 2009 1:08 pm...I am appalled by the gall shown by MLB in 1)Advertising a service which apparently was nowhere near operational when the season went live, 2) using paying customers as beta testers , 3) CONTINUING to advertise the service to attract new customers while it is unavailable, 4)that this is SOP from last season....
For what it's worth, this seems like good advice:
by deadmessenger on Wed Apr 08, 2009 3:19 pm
...A word of advice to others: don't bother with the BBB [Better Business Bureau] - they're useless. Write your state's Attorney General if you actually want to get something done.
If we want to complain to MLB.tv and/or cancel the subscription, here's the information:
Customer Service at 866-800-1275
e-Mail customerservice@website.mlb.com
(International Customers please call 512-434-154
Also, here is the Consumer Complaint page on the website of Washington State Attorney General Rob McKenna's office.
I haven't done this yet, because I'm sure most people here are better versed in the ways of MLB.tv than I am. But if people here think that writing MLB.tv and the attorney general's office and the BBB, etc. will help, I'll be all over that. But I was quite surprised about how little attention this whole thing has gotten on Lookout Landing - I couldn't find much about Condensed Games at all when I search for it. Any advice or suggestions any wise person out there might have for the LL community would be much appreciated.
We should approach this judiciously but firmly, and I know we will. But to MLB.tv, I say, beware the fury of an aroused Lookout Landing. We all know that it can lead to even worse than this:
Fin.
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EULAs are a bitch.
MLBAM may change, suspend or discontinue any aspect of the MLBAM Properties at any time, including the availability of any feature, product, service, database, or content.
Checkmate.
They obviously wouldn’t discontinue the whole service, take the money and run, but one feature they can’t get working right the lawyers/PR flacks aren’t going to lose any sleep over. It’s not like the service isn’t worth every penny with or without the condensed functionality.
And really, as evidenced by your link to pdb in the first place, there isn’t going to be a groundswell of people here that are pissed off with mlb.tv enough to cancel. It has problems every year. This year’s version is the nextdef lag and chop (and I suppose your condensed games), and like the second blockquote says, they usually get the kinks worked out for the summer stretch. Chill out and wait. Like you said, you aren’t getting your money back anyways.
It's hard to convince people to let you eat them if you're an asshole. - Thingray
Yeah, that's pretty much what I thought was the case.
Honestly, I’m hardly even upset at all about this – mainly because MLB.tv is so amazingly cool even without the Condensed Games that I’m still absolutely thrilled with it. What they have now is definitely worth more than what I paid for it. After I found out about all this, I just wanted to document the best posts I found about the Condensed Games situation in one place so other people didn’t have to go digging for it or be shocked when they buy a new MLB.tv premium. Plus, it gave me an excuse to use South Park photos.
I swear I remember something about EULA's meaning
nothing in the EU because they break your rights as consumers, and are therefore at least partly illegal.
EULA’s are crap and I think Microsoft got in trouble because of them from the EU…can’t remember and I have to head to work now so I can’t look it up.
I thought they discontinued condensed games last year actually
Nice Guys Finish Third - Hopelessly lost, but makin' good time.
So did I.
The first year I had MLB.tv (2006, I think) Condensed games were wonderful. They showed the final pitch of every single plate appearance, and the resulting play.
By the end of that season, they started to skip uninteresting plate appearances or even whole half innings in long games – they seemingly wanted no condensed game to run longer than 20 minutes.
The next season, they didn’t change the description of Condensed games (they still promised the final pitch of every plate appearance), but the actual product was reduced to an extended highligh package that lasted 10 minutes.
I haven’t tried them since.
I like using semi-colons; they make me feel smart.
So you got mlb.tv premium too?
DO NOT download NexDef. NexDef is the software they use to give you HD games… problem is, the video sticks a lot with it (I have 6-meg DSL which I thought was supposed to be high enough bandwidth), it’s consistently 3-5 pitches behind the action (and every time the video sticks, which always seems to happen during a big play, it picks up where it left off, putting you even farther behind), and it installs a program that runs in the background, from the moment you turn on the computer to the moment you turn it off. That NexDef program does not shut off when you close your browser like you’d expect. You have to manually turn it off in the task manager to free up 30 or so megs of memory at idle.
If you do use NexDef, even if it does work for you without the video sticking, prepare to see something mentioned in a game day thread and have to wait 60-90 seconds or more to see it on mlb.tv. If you don’t use NexDef, you’ll be either right on with live or pretty close to it.
With mlb.tv and without using nexdef, you still get to choose the home or away feed. Also, the non-high-def picture quality is better than it was last year.
I love NexDef, personally
The picture quality is absolutely amazing on it and I haven’t had any problems with sticking or resource hogging.
by Graham MacAree on Apr 21, 2009 9:41 AM PDT up reply actions
Hmm
NexDef was having all kind of problems on my brother’s brand new computer on Saturday. Once they get the bugs out it will be amazing, but until them it a piece of crap.
by JI on Apr 21, 2009 9:52 AM PDT up reply actions
Mine's been running everything perfectly
Of course, it’s tricked up out the wazoo, but if you have the specs to run nexdef it’s absolutely brilliant.
by Graham MacAree on Apr 21, 2009 10:03 AM PDT up reply actions
My laptop is a piece of shit and it runs fine
Determined, Jonesing Commentor | Proud proprietor of Wyomingroutes.org & Washingtonhighways.org
My laptop is a Dell. Enough said.
"The dark secret of LL is that it only exists so I can one day moderate Graham" ---Robret
by .Taylor on Apr 21, 2009 4:05 PM PDT up reply actions
I would gladly trade my laptop for a new Dell. Enough said.
Determined, Jonesing Commentor | Proud proprietor of Wyomingroutes.org & Washingtonhighways.org
The picture quality is incredible.
But I’m having issues as well. Being a minute or two behind everyone else is annoying. I’ve been staying away from gamethreads because of that. The auto-updates in the gamethread slow down my MLB.tv as well. I tried running it through Chrome instead of Firefox, and there was some improvement, but it’s still got some issues. Seems to be getting better, though.
I have a computer better than most (i7, 8GB RAM, RAID 0 over SAS), and mine does the same thing.
Updating to the latest Flash and OpenGL minor versions made it a lot better, but it still does it on occasion.
I’m beginning to think that it doesn’t tolerate latency on the line well, as it works flawlessly when I’m at an office (T1 or SDSL 10MBPS) even on my low-end MacBook, but off and on at home even on my good computer, where I get some lag on the cable.
It's hard to convince people to let you eat them if you're an asshole. - Thingray
I'm on 6-meg DSL
the understanding I always had was DSL was better for gaming because of lower ping times, but cable is better for large downloads because of higher throughput.
Either way, I ran the mlb.com speed test and it told me my “6-meg” DSL is downloading at about 4,800K which is well more than the 800K MLB recommends.
That's actually not a bad download for 6M ADSL.
Considering that your router is constantly getting keepalive traffic from the ISP, and the overhead involved at the physical layer, the max you can usually get on consumer networks is around 80% of “top” speed. You’re running just under that.
It's hard to convince people to let you eat them if you're an asshole. - Thingray
You're going to need a lot more than 800k for the HD versions
I believe I’ve seen 3mbps as a figure floated around somewhere… although saying that, that should still be more than manageable with that sort of download speed
by Indigo_Satellite on Apr 21, 2009 2:26 PM PDT up reply actions
Interesting
I often got the problem of having it stick in places (or do a weird instant-rewind of about 5 seconds), which was highly annoying. But I’m getting internet on it over a wireless network where the router is extremely flaky. Maybe I just need to figure out some way to make the router run better. I’m in an old house with crappy wiring, and I’ve heard that putting wireless routers on a UPS with cleaner power can help to clear up some problems, but I’m reluctant to go buy a UPS to see if it will help. Has anyone else seen improved performance on their wireless router by putting it on a UPS?
It varies by situation, but in general yes.
Some routers respond better to this than others, but it applies to most electronic devices.
Also, see if the router has some sort of packet filtering or scanning (like a router-based virus scanner or SPI firewall) and see if turning it off makes it better.
Finally, make sure your wireless card works well with your router. If they are the same brand (Both Cisco/Linksys, both Broadcom, etc.), great, they should be fine. If not, you can see if turning off the “Speedboost” or “Linkfast” or whatever those brands call it helps.
Oftentimes, it will help with lag problems, because the router and card have to resend packets. It’s a little like 2 people speaking a language with wildly different accents. The words are the same, but the speech will often have to slow down so they can understand each other.
It's hard to convince people to let you eat them if you're an asshole. - Thingray
And also a cheap UPS will run you 15$ if you wait for a sale.
The one I have I connected to my cordless phone and my networking equipment, and it keeps everything running for a good hour or more, allowing me to use my laptop during power problems/outages. As long as you don’t mind the beeping from the UPS, that is.
It's hard to convince people to let you eat them if you're an asshole. - Thingray
Cool
Thanks for the tips. I often feel like I have no tools to deal with router problems, but hopefully this helps.
Your best defense against router problems is to not buy cheap routers.
Even if you only take the two steps up to a Cisco branded Linksys (Like this) or some other “Small Business” router and reconfigure your current router to be a wireless access point, you’ll have less problems than you ever thought you would with your network. If you can swing a dedicated Wireless Access Point to go along with whatever your computer’s wifi card is, even better.
You might have to get a techie friend to set it up for you if you’re not familiar, because they don’t come with wizards and easy setup buttons. You’ll notice the lag decrease, and get a lot more speed out of it, especially if you torrent or open up many things at the same time.
It's hard to convince people to let you eat them if you're an asshole. - Thingray
I have definitely used cheap routers
Being a student tends to push you to the cheap side whenever it’s an option. I am pretty tech savvy, so I don’t think that setup would be a problem. We’ve got four people at my house who use the router, and while I don’t think any of us are using torrents, I’m sure we give the router a pretty good workout.
Last summer, I was positive that something had gone wrong with the cable internet, but the tech guy insisted that I hook a computer straight to the modem, and sure enough that solved the problem. The router was running a little warm, so I disconnected it for a while and when it came back up it worked as well as it had before. That probably should have been the last straw.
Glad I'm not the only one
I way overbought on my UPS, but in addition to having the computer and both monitors plugged into it, I also have the DSL modem and wireless router (Linksys WRT54G) plugged in to the UPS specifically so if the power goes out, I can turn off the main computer, turn on the laptop and go online for as long as the laptop battery lasts.
If you want a refund, do a chargeback
This assumes you used a credit card to pay, but I’d imagine that 99% of people did. You can file a chargeback when you feel like you’re not getting what you paid for, in terms of the quality or type of good or service.
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