Sweeney/Shelton Decision Made?

by Jeff on Mar 28, 2009 6:40 PM PDT in Regular News Comment 30 comments

I don't know if this is official, since you'd think it would be bigger news if it were, but according to Larry LaRue:

[Branyan] doesn’t have great range, but he’s a big target and, guarding the line late, the Mariners think he can do the job. Mike Sweeney will be the ‘other’ first baseman on the roster.

If this is indeed the way the Mariners are going, it doesn't come as much of a surprise, given all the positive press Sweeney's received from the start. And with Shelton having been one of the best hitters of the month, this also suggests that the job was Sweeney's to lose from the get-go - that he was the guy the Mariners wanted all along, provided he was healthy and capable of swinging the bat. He's been healthy and swung the bat, so there you go. Tough break for Shelton, but if/when Sweeney or Griffey breaks down, he won't be far away.

I'm not wild about this decision, but as we talked about a few days ago, it's unlikely to make much of a difference. While Sweeney's the worse bat, the playing time is limited, and he's as good a bet as anyone to be good for the clubhouse. I should also point out that this is the kind of move we probably would've held against Bill Bavasi, but the difference now is that Zduriencik has made enough other good moves that he's earned the benefit of the doubt. Choosing Sweeney would've been part of the pattern for Bill. For Jack, it's something else. That's why I'm not really upset or anything.

So that looks like one position battle wrapped up. The meaningful decisions remaining: closer, catcher, Griffey's position. They're really milking this long-ass Spring Training for all it's worth.

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I think LaRue has been under this assumtion all Spring Training.

I could be wrong, but as far as I can remember he’s been ignoring Shelton’s existence from the get go. That doesn’t mean he’s incorrect with the above statement, though. I’ve been assuming Sweeney was the guy even though I like Shelton better.

by JonBBT on Mar 28, 2009 6:48 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs

Yep

LaRue and Hickey decided that Sweeney made this team about three weeks ago. They’re not waiting for the M’s to make a decision – they’ve decided to let everyone know that this is an obvious, no-brainer, and if it turns out that the M’s do go with Shelton, I’m sure LaRue will write a piece about how shocking this decision is.

He’s really playing the curmudgeon role to a tee lately.

by davidcameron on Mar 28, 2009 7:03 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

FSN was talking as if he's a lock too.

by JI on Mar 28, 2009 7:07 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Well then nevermind

although not really, since it really does seem like Sweeney is the favorite.

by Jeff on Mar 28, 2009 7:10 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Add Baker to the list (well, sort of).

During multiple Live chats, he’s mentioned that Sweeney has “done everything they’ve asked him to do” and that Shelton was a long shot to make the team.

by ThundaPC on Mar 28, 2009 7:14 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Don't forget the entire KJR crew

who appointed him to the 25-man roster the minute he was signed.

by BrianL on Mar 28, 2009 7:25 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

This annoys me.

But if it’s the worst they’re capable of, then alrighty.

by JI on Mar 28, 2009 6:49 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs

Seconded, this annoys me

Although I don’t see a pattern with the rest of Zduriencik’s decisions, this still is a peeving situation. Clearly, Shelton is the better baseball option, and the new staff has preached that decisions would be made almost entirely based on who are better baseball players.

I don’t like the ring of this a bit more than the rest of the folks for that specific reason.

by cwel87 on Mar 28, 2009 7:22 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Agreed.

by JI on Mar 28, 2009 7:33 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Zduriencik.

Some folks may want to check out this article from a few days ago. Decisions won’t be just talent only.

I don’t think it’s much to worry about, though.

by ThundaPC on Mar 28, 2009 7:37 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Just to be clear, I don't think character should be ignored.

by JI on Mar 28, 2009 7:51 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Neither do I

But I think it’s safe to say we’re not dealing with a Jeff Kent-like character in Chris Shelton. We’re dealing with a player who, by all measures, is a younger, better all-around player at this point than Mike Sweeney. Other than the fact he’s a great presence for this team to have in the locker room, there’s nothing Sweeney can bring to the diamond that Shelton would be out-maneuvered in.

Maybe I’ve just seen too much of this through the past few years, and as much as I love what Zduriencik has done with the place, those memories haven’t faded as quickly as I had hoped. But if you’re going to sign bargain platoon players and announce a job is up for grabs, then please, have that job up for grabs. Because otherwise, that kind of defeats the purpose.

by cwel87 on Mar 28, 2009 9:18 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

I'm not really sure I believe that article.

What Zduriencik said is that you want both talent and character, not that they’re equally important. I want a reliable quite car, but to say that the ideal car is reliable and quiet is not the same thing as saying they’re equally important. In his interview when he accepted the job he said unequivocally “Talent wins games.”

by philosofool on Mar 28, 2009 10:16 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Way to go retard

by Robert on Mar 29, 2009 5:49 PM PDT up reply actions 1 recs

At least Sweeney is hitting this spring.. If he was looking terrible, and they still

gave him the nod I wouldn’t be so forgiving of Z in regards to this move. However, Sweeney hasn’t looked terrible out there and when he breaks down, Shelton will get his shot

by Rudy4three on Mar 28, 2009 6:56 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs

I think the FO is upset about the pettiness that occurred last year and doesn’t want it to happen again. They shipped out one of the players (and got good value in return). As Jeff has articulated, the difference between Shelton and Sweeney isn’t very great. In this case, with two guys not separated by that much, they went.with the guy who who offered a bit more of the intangible. It’s not like they’re passing on Carlos Peña in favor of Carl Everett because of Everett’s fiery personality and experience on winning teams.

I see the difference between Sweeney and Shelton as being like having Tater Tots with or without ketchup.You don’t build a meal around Tater Tots, and they certainly don’t add much nutritional value to the meal. But they’re easy to fix and sometimes they fill up that last spot on the plate nicely. If you have ketchup with them so much the better, but they can still do nicely in that limited role on their own. (Folks from Idaho might even prefer them with fry sauce, but that’s a completely different matter.) In contrast, acquiring Everett (and Vidro) was more like loading your plate with sludge from the grease trap at Chili’s trusting that since those chunks were once marginally edible morsels, they might once again be palatable if you can just scape off the rot.

If Zduriencik brings “character” into play when the differences are that granular, more power to him. That is exactly the level at which those differences do make a difference and should matter.

by Steve Nelson on Mar 28, 2009 8:07 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs

Mmm . . . fry sauce.

by Teej on Mar 28, 2009 8:26 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Yeah, fiery Carl

Just in case you’ve not thought about it recently, fiery personality .

by philosofool on Mar 28, 2009 10:25 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Re: Spring Training

Regardless of the decision, one of the things I’ve noticed the most during Spring Training when I read various quotes from the staff is the focus on talent. Being a veteran and having a track-record isn’t good enough for this new regime. They have to be able to produce. If Mike Sweeney is selected, it’s because they feel he can still produce while “policing” the clubhouse. And they gather that information by analyzing him during spring training (Wak even noted that Sweeney “moves a lot better” than he did when they last saw him).

Chris Shelton either makes the team or gets sent to the minors. Either way, we have him in case we need him later. Both guys were found in the bargain bin.

Another thing to consider is having a “clubhouse police” for one year helps Wakamatsu establish a foundation to instill a winning philosophy into the team going forward; Meaning less grumbling about Ichiro and more “doing your job” and help the team win games.

by ThundaPC on Mar 28, 2009 11:02 PM PDT up reply actions 1 recs

Agreed, agreed.

I think the majority of us here understand by now that you don’t make sound baseball decisions that help you win ballgames by evaluating said decisions with “good character” as your #1 deciding factor, but that doesn’t mean it should be ignored, all other things (read: talent) being equal.

Not to suggest that Shelton doesn’t or couldn’t add to a positive clubhouse atmosphere, but we know that Sweeney has a career-long reputation as one of baseball’s “good guys,” and again, all things (talent) being equal, it wont hurt adding him to our clubhouse mix.

I like that we get to keep Shelton around as well.

by Omerta on Mar 29, 2009 8:37 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

I don't think I can add much as you guys pretty much summed it up

but after a year of extreme controversy and division in the clubhouse (even though it was pretty much all whiny ass Silva) not to mention 101 losses, in Wak’s first year where he is trying to kind of establish his way of doing things, and with a small difference in value between Shelton/Sweeny, I think this decision, even if it was based a little more off character than it should have been, is an OK one. It’s not like Sweeny is gonna stay healthy anyway.

Can any of you guys who are smarter than I am give us some kind of idea of Sweeny’s upside in the role he is currently in? League average? Above average?

by Zwakamatsu on Mar 30, 2009 8:12 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Half-decent bat with ~average defense

by Jeff on Mar 31, 2009 12:06 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

I'll raise a ruckus if Griffey plays more LF than he should.

Or if Waka doesn’t at least try Cedeno when Yuni fails.

Throw the snacks in the bag and I'm ghost like Swayze!
Preserved In All His Greatness - R.I.P. The Reignman 1989 to 1997

by JLProck on Mar 28, 2009 8:11 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs

Shelton and Sweeney both ought to be on the team

We’re without Clement and we have a 1B (Branyan) and a (God-willing) starting DH (Griffey) who are both terrible against LHP. If we keep Shelton in AAA, we’ll either have Wlad as Griffey’s platoon partner (a .268 wOBA last year, a projected .320 wOBA this year in a high, high-risk player) or have Griffey hit against LHP full-time [shivers]. We have our organization’s two best catchers in the minors (Clement and Moore). We’re not even close to running the best team we can out there. I updated the optimized lineup, and it’s a sorry sight now. Maybe GMZ has some Napoleonically brilliant trade strategy, but it doesn’t look like that right now. The M’s would be best if Clement and Cedeno (about as good a hitter as Yuni, but an average SS) started most of our games and Shelton at least got an AB or two in most of them, but they won’t do that. This just sucks. With Morrow in the pen and all the talent we have trapped on the bench or in the minors, it feels like we lost 5 wins worth of talent in one Sunday.

by Decatur on Mar 29, 2009 4:00 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs