Stupid Idea Shelved
by Matthew on Feb 19, 2009 10:05 AM PST
in Seattle Mariners Good News
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"You won't see Jose at first base, at least initially," Wakamatsu said. "We've talked to Russell (Branyan) about being our first baseman. And we want to see Jose at second base."
Thanks for that, Don. As Dave Cameron wrote earlier, and we mentioned a few times, Jose Lopez at first base just never made much sense. It made even less sense with the plethora of 1B/DH types that we brought in for beans this winter.
Furthermore, I reject the null hypothesis that Jose Lopez is a terrible defender at second base. He may well become one, he's trending downward in both UZR and Plus/Minus, and it may yet be revealed by some so far undiscovered metric that he was atrocious, but I disagree that we have enough evidence to say that right now.
Lopez's +/- rating in 2008: 0
Lopez's UZR rating in 2008: -3.3
That's not a guy to give up on at second base. Lopez may never turn into a star, but his bat looks to be about average, with upside, and his defense looks serviceable at a premium position. That's valuable.
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I don't think it was ever really a consideration
I think it happened last year under the old regime just to make PT for Valbuena and the media decided it was an interesting story and decided to drill it into our heads as an option, just like Morrow for closer this year
Determined, Jonesing Commentor | Proud proprietor of Wyomingroutes.org & Washingtonhighways.org
...at least one Big Z was hired
To me it seems like something that was talked about, but never seriously considered.
Uh oh
Sojo is familiar with many young Mariners as he manages the Lara team that the M’s send players to in winter ball. Jose Lopez elects to play winter ball every year on his own and showed up at camp this year noticeably heavier. Lopez told me that he got bigger so he would have more power.
Being bigger, wanting to hit for power made me thing that he was looking more like a first baseman than a middle infielder. Jose has said he would rather not play first, and the Mariners in the off season indicated that he most likely would not be moved.
Fuck you Lopez
Determined, Jonesing Commentor | Proud proprietor of Wyomingroutes.org & Washingtonhighways.org
...
“Not initially. Lopez knows he is going to play second base. It is going to be up to him if he is in shape and able to play there.”
Please don’t be fat Jose
Is he forearm-and-leg bigger?
Or wings-and-thighs bigger?
I DRINK YOUR MILKSHAKE!!! I DRINK IT UP!!
I wonder if Lopez's numbers in the field have been hurt by Betancourt
I know that UZR and +/- are good defensive metrics, but I’m still not convinced that anyone has been able to completely separate second base defense and shortstop defense.
If you look at, say, Michael Young alongside Alfonso Soriano and then post-Soriano, Young was about 24 UZR/150 in ’04‘05 and then -7 UZR/150 in ’06-’07 despite being older and at an age where you would expect decline.
Obviously that’s just one guy, but it stands to reason that 2B/SS would be the two hardest guys to disentangle in the field, and it’s not like Lopez’s numbers have been changing all that much anyway.
Even if true
It’s much, much more likely that Lopez is hurting Betancourt than vice versa.
by davidcameron on Feb 19, 2009 11:12 AM PST up reply actions
I should have added
I don’t think it’s true. The zone data doesn’t change based on the players. The only way that would matter would be if players were positioning themselves differently, but that’s usually the coaches, not the players.
by davidcameron on Feb 19, 2009 11:13 AM PST up reply actions
I do think that positioning would be the main change...
…but it’s possible that coaches could re-position players a bit depending on how they view the range of the guy standing next to them. At any rate, I do think that this would be a small effect, but given the natural variability in defensive stats, it’s not like Lopez’s numbers have changed all that much in the last couple of years.
Why do you say that?
If anyone’s killing Betancourt’s UZR, it’s Beltre.
If having King Awesome on his right makes Betancourt shift towards 2nd, I can imagine he’d have more out of zone plays over the bag. But that doesn’t exactly seem to be happening.
Does that mean that infielders with overlapping range can actually hurt one another?
I doubt there’s any real way to logically figure that out, of course. But it’s an interesting concept to think about.
Yeah, I could see that Beltre’s range pushing Betancourt over, but wouldn’t those out of zone plays by Yuni just allow Lopez to have more range as he doesn’t need to worry about balls up the middle? Or is it that the ranges cause them to rely too heavily on one another? And how much more can I speculate without actually introducing a number?
I was thinking of adding...
…that it could be the other way around. I’m certainly willing to entertain the idea that Lopez could be hurting Betancourt’s numbers at SS.
I had a hard time believing that one from the get-go
If not playing second Lopez is surely worth more in trade than at first. Here’s hoping he and Yuni are feeling the burn of the hot seat, and that Cedeno finds his bat so he can credibly push them both.
by Bearskin Rugburn on Feb 19, 2009 11:08 AM PST reply actions
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