Griffey Signs (With Us)
by Graham MacAree on Feb 18, 2009 5:28 PM PST
in Seattle Mariners News, Regular
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PrintThe money is unknown at this point, but it's a one year, incentive-laden contract. Link. Another link. MLB.com link.
Update: Jim Street reports $2M in base salary with more in incentives based on appearances and attendance. The wording is poor, so I can't figure out whether the incentives are worth $2M or $4M total.
We've been talking about this nonstop for the better part of a week now, so all I have to say is this:
Welcome back, Junior. You were missed.
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If the Braves got a Diaz-Junior platoon they might have eked out a few more wins.
"I got my pregnant wife (the Yankee fan) with me. Hoping my kid learns to kick her everytime the Mets score." -Schifftis-
Well, that circus is over.
Time for a whole new wave of circus!
Maybe we could bring back A-Rod, too.
I go to law school. Therefore, I have no life.
by andrewgolfsalot on Feb 18, 2009 5:32 PM PST up reply actions
I meant the media hamming it up with Jr during ST and the season.
This was the rain shower. Prepare for the hurricane.
I plan on avoiding all major Seattle media outlets the week before the home opener.
Nice Guys Finish Third - Hopelessly lost, but makin' good time.
And somewhere
Dave “Softy” Mahler weeps tears of joy.
All over his pile of Little Debbie Snack Cakes.
61/755: KGJ's homer totals, or Rosie O'Donnell's age/weight in 2019?
Frank Wren is going to release a statement tomorrow threatening to never work with Griffey's agent ever again.
Patriotism, Pepper, Professionalism
Thank gawd it's over.
Or at least this round of hoopla. It will now continue its second stage of life well into May.
"We are a bad defensive team" -B. Cashman
To be honest, it's been well discussed how little this actually mean in term of wins and losses..
but I think it’s pretty damn cool, that he turned down a chance to play close to home and LF… to come back to Seattle and finish up
He's not disagreeing with you.
he turned down a chance to play close to home and LF
It's hard to convince people to let you eat them if you're an asshole. - Thingray
GOD I WISH HE'D MAKE A DAMN DECISION ALREADY
oh, sorry. Reflex.
Nice Guys Finish Third - Hopelessly lost, but makin' good time.
When don't they though?
They are about as dumb as you can get in the journalism world. I have an ex-girlfriend attending U. Florida and she had an internship offer there over the summer and she turned it down to go back and work for a smaller newspaper.
any more/less so than the Seattle papers when it was a done deal last week?
we are dealing with Jr here, after all.
Umm
Is there a link to this story? After all, this was supposedly a “done” deal last weekend.
"I lof to hit de home ron!"
Interesting Side Note...
The Seattle Times got scooped by a paper that is, in all likelihood, going out of business. Goodness.
Alvin Davis, your legacy is no longer tarnished.
Well this was all first reported by Atlanta television.
The PI article was clearly a hastily-retooled “How Griffey Got Away” postmortem that had to be adjusted in light of the happy ending.
Patriotism, Pepper, Professionalism
I can't help
but be really happy right now.
Maybe this is a bad decision for us… but its probably the best bad decision our team has made in a very long time.
What, Sexson wasn't a thrill?
"Part, fools!
Put up your swords. You know not what you do."
by Fearless Frog on Feb 18, 2009 7:48 PM PST up reply actions
Me too.
I was not a fan back in the 90s, so I have no emotional attachment and am just really hoping he is okay with the part-time DH role. If there is drama then I will be pissed. It will be cool if I get to see him hit a HR in person though…I usually go to about 16 games/season so it’s possible. Actually this year I will probably go to more since I bought 10 games in a good seat at season ticket prices and will probably hit several more games with cheaper seats.
by appleshampoo on Feb 18, 2009 5:46 PM PST up reply actions
He can always sign with the Braves next year.
by csiems on Feb 18, 2009 5:40 PM PST reply actions 1 recs
I didn't want it to happen, but now that it's over and there's no point in arguing about it, I feel oddly happy.
Welcome back, Junior.
What if he has a really good season?
"Part, fools!
Put up your swords. You know not what you do."
by Fearless Frog on Feb 18, 2009 7:49 PM PST up reply actions
That's the thing, though.
80 percent of the smile on my face is rooted in the idea of Griffey playing his last game in a Mariners uniform. If he leaves and goes somewhere else, it makes things a lot less awesome. In my irrational opinion.
I feel your fear
Since there is no good choice left, I’m just going to go with irrational optimism……….
Last year was just the knee.
DHing will save his legs for hitting.
Coming ‘home’ will magically roll back the odometer 10 years.
Feed him a steady diet of righties and he’ll hit pretty well.
etc. etc. et al
Pushing all rational concerns of injury/age/sucking aside.
There are many stages of Griffey thought and I’ve reached the resignation stage.
I just hope he stays healthy and reasonably productive.
"We are a bad defensive team" -B. Cashman
This has to happen
Determined, Jonesing Commentor | Proud proprietor of Wyomingroutes.org & Washingtonhighways.org
Is that legal?
Seems odd, especially since depending how much the incentive was, he could purchase a bunch of cheap seats to help pad the numbers and get the extra money.
Probably something along the lines of 2% of revenue over last season's average attendance.
Not including Opening Day and holidays.
In other words, if the average attendance was 18,000, anything above that number Griffey would receive 2% of the revenue. This is the way I would have drawn it up.
I heard Mark Mcgwire had something like this after the season he hit 70 HRs.
Like a dollar from every ticket sold or something.
But I could be miss-remembering.
I'm going to pretend that this is a reply to Fuzz's shocker graphic.
61/755: KGJ's homer totals, or Rosie O'Donnell's age/weight in 2019?
I Was At His First Game Back With The Reds...
1) His batting practice performance was just nuts…he was really into it.
2) The ceremony was incredible.
3) Most Griffey fans at that game were absolutely obnoxious, booing their own team just because Griffey was back. They booed in his first at-bat, because Feierabend was throwing to first. They thought Feier was ducking him, completely oblivious to the fact that Brandon Phillips, known base stealer was on first. It was infuriating.
Alvin Davis, your legacy is no longer tarnished.
I still blame that moment on breaking Feierabend
After that start he was never the same
Determined, Jonesing Commentor | Proud proprietor of Wyomingroutes.org & Washingtonhighways.org
I blame his mediocre stuff
I'd rather know a little about a lot than a lot about a little
by Sportszilla on Feb 18, 2009 11:41 PM PST up reply actions
well this made s ucky day awesome
Determined, Jonesing Commentor | Proud proprietor of Wyomingroutes.org & Washingtonhighways.org
If you're drunk, please don't post. Go frolic about and have fun instead.
If you’re not, please write like a normal person.
by Graham MacAree on Feb 18, 2009 5:58 PM PST up reply actions
Well this made a sucky day awesome
Sorry I was just excited
Determined, Jonesing Commentor | Proud proprietor of Wyomingroutes.org & Washingtonhighways.org
Why not just stand upright and smile?
Am I the only sane one here?
61/755: KGJ's homer totals, or Rosie O'Donnell's age/weight in 2019?
That was a joke - considering it's from me.
61/755: KGJ's homer totals, or Rosie O'Donnell's age/weight in 2019?
Listen - you're a friend of mine. I think everyone knows you're crazier than a shithouse rat.
61/755: KGJ's homer totals, or Rosie O'Donnell's age/weight in 2019?
MLB.com also said matter of factly we had completed the trade for Omar Vizquel
This isn’t over until the fat lady sings
Determined, Jonesing Commentor | Proud proprietor of Wyomingroutes.org & Washingtonhighways.org
Generally contract terms aren't released until something's been signed
by Graham MacAree on Feb 18, 2009 6:05 PM PST up reply actions
I see that now
Holy buckets that’s too much in terms of incentives
Determined, Jonesing Commentor | Proud proprietor of Wyomingroutes.org & Washingtonhighways.org
I can't work out whether he means $2M of incentives or $4M.
Street is bad at writing
by Graham MacAree on Feb 18, 2009 6:07 PM PST up reply actions
I'm pretty sure it's $4M in incentives
it sure would be nice to see a breakdown of it.
by seattlebruin on Feb 18, 2009 6:08 PM PST up reply actions
Either way, the Mariners know enough about what they're doing to recoup the attendance-based money
by Graham MacAree on Feb 18, 2009 6:11 PM PST up reply actions
Yeah, I'm not worried.
If he ends up being a half-win to one-win player who earns $5 or $6 million, whatever. The ticket sales should make up for that.
Not like we were going to spend the money on Manny.
61/755: KGJ's homer totals, or Rosie O'Donnell's age/weight in 2019?
I read it as $4 Million
Determined, Jonesing Commentor | Proud proprietor of Wyomingroutes.org & Washingtonhighways.org
Incentives = Griffey playing well
if he plays well, then he’ll have earned the incentives in terms of value added to the team. I like it.
by seattlebruin on Feb 18, 2009 6:07 PM PST up reply actions
Incentives are almost always based on plate appearances
Given that this is Griffey odds are he’s going to get most of them
Determined, Jonesing Commentor | Proud proprietor of Wyomingroutes.org & Washingtonhighways.org
If we're out of contention he is far less releaseable than Vidro
Determined, Jonesing Commentor | Proud proprietor of Wyomingroutes.org & Washingtonhighways.org
I heard a funny comment about ARod today:
Officials are scrambling to investigate why steroids don’t seem to work in October…
61/755: KGJ's homer totals, or Rosie O'Donnell's age/weight in 2019?
And M's fans should be PISSED
A-Rod didn’t care enough about them to use ’roids while in Seattle…
This signature space for rent.
by PositivePaul on Feb 19, 2009 4:02 PM PST up reply actions
If he sucks and we're out of contention, big deal if he gets more PAs
if he sucks and we’re in contention, they’ll bench him (this isn’t going to happen).
If he’s good and we’re in contention then sweet Jesus will I be happy.
by seattlebruin on Feb 18, 2009 6:11 PM PST up reply actions
This is the happiest I've been in quite some time
Please excuse me while I go find some Mariners tickets to buy
2 knees, as well.
Not to mention there are always the muscles that connect to those knees that would go bad from compensation.
It's hard to convince people to let you eat them if you're an asshole. - Thingray
Well....considering the muscles don't directly connect to the knees
They use those ligaments to keep themselves together.
Ligament=muscle to bone
Tendon=bone to bone
I think cartilage is the word you were looking for. I’ve done enough damage to my left knee that this is all back stored knowledge now
Replace "knees" with "ligaments" in there.
It's hard to convince people to let you eat them if you're an asshole. - Thingray
It's all good.
Kids, don’t comment while working!
It's hard to convince people to let you eat them if you're an asshole. - Thingray
I'd like to think this is intentional.
(Is the “in” an English thing?)
Also, your’re.
It's hard to convince people to let you eat them if you're an asshole. - Thingray
Provided he doesn't prevent us from reaching the post season
This is great. I’m excited. I watched him suck it up as a red, so watching him suck as a Mariner is A-Okay with me.
...and now I'm here
I'm new relatively new here.
Is the general consensus that we have an outside shot at the postseason?
"Part, fools!
Put up your swords. You know not what you do."
by Fearless Frog on Feb 18, 2009 7:54 PM PST up reply actions
Small chance.
We’re looking at a team that should be projected to win around 75 games. But with a few breakouts (Clement, Gutierrez, perhaps even Wlad) and some good luck, we could push that to 85, which just might be enough to top a shitty division.
We have no idea what to expect with Z before the trade deadline before the All Star game. It could get interesting.
61/755: KGJ's homer totals, or Rosie O'Donnell's age/weight in 2019?
I was happy when it looked like he was heading to Atlanta.
Now I’m happy that it looks like he’s heading here.
….
I’m so confused.
If he hits I'm fine with that.
I just worry that won’t be the case. I want to be optimistic so I’ll say he’s never been a DH. We shall see.
"We are a bad defensive team" -B. Cashman
The gods say Girffey in ATL = 75 HRs, Griffey in SEA = 12.
61/755: KGJ's homer totals, or Rosie O'Donnell's age/weight in 2019?
I have a huge bandage on my finger. Sorry.
61/755: KGJ's homer totals, or Rosie O'Donnell's age/weight in 2019?
I'm a little more assholish than usual today.
I didn’t have a chance to get into Robert and I’s daily yelling session because he got to work and disappeared
Spank him in the backroom for me.
61/755: KGJ's homer totals, or Rosie O'Donnell's age/weight in 2019?
Good point.
Spank him in the backroom for me.
61/755: KGJ's homer totals, or Rosie O'Donnell's age/weight in 2019?
Now you're confusing me as to if this is a good thing or not
Is this punishment for him or pleasure for you guys?
Apparently there's an Ichiroach Suzuki now
Sorry I know the picture is horrible
I'm sure it's every player's dream to be anthropomorphized into a giant cockroach
Patriotism, Pepper, Professionalism
I know of no such .gif and like it that way
by Jeff Sullivan on Feb 18, 2009 7:28 PM PST up reply actions
Oh I've seen in posted on here.
Damnit now I have to look again
(unless the above was a request not to).
Jesus Christ, that's disturbing.
61/755: KGJ's homer totals, or Rosie O'Donnell's age/weight in 2019?
That's because Robert made it.
Back when he was JFOJL.
It's hard to convince people to let you eat them if you're an asshole. - Thingray
This is why I hate and love Robert.
61/755: KGJ's homer totals, or Rosie O'Donnell's age/weight in 2019?
So, like a modified human being?
61/755: KGJ's homer totals, or Rosie O'Donnell's age/weight in 2019?
I would just like to say, that was an amazing thread.
You just don't know when to keep your mouth shut, do you Saxy boy?
by oc on Feb 18, 2009 9:12 PM PST up reply actions
Let's not forget that fielders moving to DH generally lose half a win of batting value over 600PA
by Graham MacAree on Feb 18, 2009 6:19 PM PST up reply actions
Shhhhhhhhhhhh
I know this is why pinch hitting is so hard. Many guys don’t ever really adjust to the DH thing.
His seeing 600 PA would be either a really good or really, really bad sign.
"We are a bad defensive team" -B. Cashman
At least nobody has unrealistic expectations of present day Griffey.
by R.J. Anderson on Feb 18, 2009 6:21 PM PST up reply actions
Gas also chided the local media and those darned blogs for hyping the story last week
and then promptly threw the phones open for callers to respond to the news that Griffey maybe said he was picking Seattle
I have a soft spot for Gas, but don't always get where he's coming from.
61/755: KGJ's homer totals, or Rosie O'Donnell's age/weight in 2019?
That's funny
Because Gas also has a lot of soft spots.
Actually, I like him too
I'd rather know a little about a lot than a lot about a little
by Sportszilla on Feb 18, 2009 11:45 PM PST up reply actions
You mean this video?
In case you have not seen it before.
22 yr old Ichiro meeting young Griffey!
by mark sobba on Feb 18, 2009 6:20 PM PST up reply actions 2 recs
This is awesome!
I never seen/heard about this encounter. I love the Mr. Baseball music around the 5-minute point.
Holy Crap.
He is so young that doesn’t even look like Ichiro. Also the lack of facial hair throws one off.
by appleshampoo on Feb 19, 2009 12:04 AM PST up reply actions
O MY GOOOOOOOODNESSS!!!!
This is On Beyond AWESOME!!!!
This signature space for rent.
by PositivePaul on Feb 19, 2009 4:26 PM PST up reply actions
He done been on da down low many time.
61/755: KGJ's homer totals, or Rosie O'Donnell's age/weight in 2019?
At this point I don't even care about the baseball ramifications.
I’m just going to be giddy as a schoolboy for a few days.
Fear the NPE
So does LaHair finally get bumped from the 40 man now?
Determined, Jonesing Commentor | Proud proprietor of Wyomingroutes.org & Washingtonhighways.org
This move has been coming for a while.
Though, in typical Mariner fashion, they were LaHair late in making it.
I will smash your face into a jelly.
by Phil Hatzenbuehler on Feb 19, 2009 8:08 AM PST up reply actions
Just wait until ARod's reunion signing when he turns 42 at the end of his NYY contract.
It's hard to convince people to let you eat them if you're an asshole. - Thingray
They'll never take ARod back.
They’re too busy waiting for Aurilia to return.
61/755: KGJ's homer totals, or Rosie O'Donnell's age/weight in 2019?
Rich Aurilia will always be a Mariner in my heart
He got a bum rap here
Determined, Jonesing Commentor | Proud proprietor of Wyomingroutes.org & Washingtonhighways.org
This
Determined, Jonesing Commentor | Proud proprietor of Wyomingroutes.org & Washingtonhighways.org
Oh screw it
I need to find tickets to the first home game in the worst way now.
I have to do that anyway. I waited in line for 6 hours last year when tickets went on sale...
This year I will do it internet style. But by hook or by crook, I’m going to Opening Day.
LL meetup?
I’m planning on going if I can get tickets.
I will smash your face into a jelly.
by Phil Hatzenbuehler on Feb 19, 2009 8:09 AM PST up reply actions
I might murder my parents so they wont be in Denver during the home opener so that I can go to Seattle
Determined, Jonesing Commentor | Proud proprietor of Wyomingroutes.org & Washingtonhighways.org
Never mind
MY FATHER SOMEHOW UNDERSTANDS THE VALUE OF OUTFIELD DEFENSE THIS IS INCREDIBLE
Hi David,
I see on the ESPN website that Griffey will be signing a one-year contract with the Mariners, over Atlanta. Should fill some seats early in the season. I hope he gets 20 HR and 75 RBIs and plays very little outfield.
Love Dad
Determined, Jonesing Commentor | Proud proprietor of Wyomingroutes.org & Washingtonhighways.org
I wonder how rapey he looks interviewing KGJ?
It's hard to convince people to let you eat them if you're an asshole. - Thingray
By the way, I would really, really, really like someone to photoshop that old "Dewey Defeats Truman" photograph with the headline "Griffey Signs With Atlanta" substituted in.
Patriotism, Pepper, Professionalism
Armando Benitez is a rare former Mariner that does not hold a place in my heart
Determined, Jonesing Commentor | Proud proprietor of Wyomingroutes.org & Washingtonhighways.org
And the funny thing is they really should be happy.
Even in all my nostalgia I would be mortified if we were bringing Griffey in to play the field.
I don't think they're paying attention
I’m not into the in-depth numbers most of you use, but I can even seen when something is broken. I don’t think duct tape can fix this one
Z was just on KING 5. He seems happy.
I have to admit, I am too.
61/755: KGJ's homer totals, or Rosie O'Donnell's age/weight in 2019?
Huh.
Chuck claims that Willie Mays helped talk Junior into returning to Seattle.
Where there's a will, there's a Mays.
61/755: KGJ's homer totals, or Rosie O'Donnell's age/weight in 2019?
the weird part of the story
is that it was Mays who wanted to talk to Griffey, and not Armstrong siccing Mays onto Ken.
That's pretty frickin' cool, if you ask me.
61/755: KGJ's homer totals, or Rosie O'Donnell's age/weight in 2019?
I must admit, the stalling took some of the shine off of the signing for me...
…but I have a feeling I’ll forget about it by opening day. Welcome back, “Kid.”
Sounds like we need to turn back the clock on opening day with those horrible teal uniforms.
61/755: KGJ's homer totals, or Rosie O'Donnell's age/weight in 2019?
Replace the teal with yellow, and you've got a deal.
61/755: KGJ's homer totals, or Rosie O'Donnell's age/weight in 2019?
This.
They were ugly as sin but they’re my favorite of all time.
Good lord, no. Give me the Trident, and get the hell off of my lawn.
61/755: KGJ's homer totals, or Rosie O'Donnell's age/weight in 2019?
And nothing is even on fire. Good for you!
61/755: KGJ's homer totals, or Rosie O'Donnell's age/weight in 2019?
It's funny that
after all of the self-searching I had to do after I admitted to being against a Griffey acquisition, I would be lying through my teeth if I said I wasn’t excited to see Griffey back. I’m sure once he get’s injured playing LF and/or plays a lot against rhp my excitement will level off, but right now I’m happy.
Concerning tickets, this was the deciding factor in whether or not I was buying tickets for opening day. I’ll definitely be there. Can’t wait to hear him announced over the loudspeaker.
Durrr
or against LHP. I would love to see him play a lot against RHP.
A guy called in earlier to KJR and said,
“I am a father of three children. If Griffey is signed, I will go to three games this season. If they don’t sign him, I’ll never attend another Mariners game.”
Dear sir,
I heard your call to KJR this evening. Please do those of the rest of us here a favor, and teach your children to never, ever blog. If you blog yourself, please stop.
61/755: KGJ's homer totals, or Rosie O'Donnell's age/weight in 2019?
I meant to type 12th, but my bandage finger thwarted me.
61/755: KGJ's homer totals, or Rosie O'Donnell's age/weight in 2019?
I'm getting error messages left and right from SBN tonight...
Anyway, yes – you seem to be in a bad mood. Sorry.
61/755: KGJ's homer totals, or Rosie O'Donnell's age/weight in 2019?
Move Loafie to #2 and hit Cedeno eighth
by seattlebruin on Feb 19, 2009 9:39 AM PST up reply actions
He's at .323 from the 2-spot
and for whatever reason, he hits the best when he hits #2 (or maybe #5) and his numbers drop precipitously at the back of the order. Now a lot of this is probably the result of him hitting 2nd during his good 2008 and good 2006 first half, but without being able to clearly separate cause and effect, I’m loathe to move him out of the two-spot.
Cedeno’s career OBP is .289 anyway.
by seattlebruin on Feb 19, 2009 10:05 AM PST up reply actions
Yeah but Cedeno has a much higher on-base ceiling
He could be league average if he plays up to his potential. Lopez would need to hit .320.-330 just to reach the .340-.350 mark.
I'm just a little bit concerned about his psyche, since he's hit so poorly when demoted to the bottom of the lineup
and after what happened in 2006 and 2007 it seems like he might be a little bit fragile. I’d really want Cedeno to prove something before I’d move into the 2-spot.
by seattlebruin on Feb 19, 2009 10:49 AM PST up reply actions
Seattle is now a 72-win team!!
Congratulations Mariners’ fans, your team will be in contention until August 3rd instead of only being in contention until July 29th. This is a complete PR move. It’s not about money (Griff comes cheap), but why bother with this when all you’re doing is delaying the decision on whether Balentin is your LF of the future. You slow Balentin’s development (and possible alter it) to bring in a 40-year-old future HOF’er who can’t hit LHP anymore and who has lost significant power… Makes very little sense.
"It is the mark of an educated mind to expect that amount of exactness which the nature of the particular subject admits." - The Not Big Aristotle
Balentien isn't good and will still get plenty of ABs. The Mariners aren't a 72 win team on true talent.
This makes plenty of sense and is defensible as a baseball-only move.
by Aaron Campeau on Feb 19, 2009 3:02 PM PST up reply actions
Balentien isn't good?
He’s 24 years old, and he has a grand total of 246 career MLB ABs. You’re willing to give up on him that easily? I’m not arguing that Balentien is a bonafide superstar, but he regressed for one season after being fairly decent the two seasons before. He may end up being a total chump, or he could be the next Richard Hidalgo, who wasn’t half-bad for a few seasons there. Doesn’t it make sense to find out what he is? Especially when you’re likely to finish the season under .500 and miss the playoffs anyway?
I admit, the answer could be no from a business perspective: Griff puts butts in the seats; the M’s are a losing team with Balentien or Griff; why not make more money?
But, from a baseball perspective, I don’t see any justification for this move. Griffey isn’t that good anymore.
"It is the mark of an educated mind to expect that amount of exactness which the nature of the particular subject admits." - The Not Big Aristotle
by Uncle Charlie on Feb 19, 2009 3:11 PM PST up reply actions
Balentien is still going to get ABs, though.
Griffey is the DH against RH pitchers. Balentien will get time at DH against LH pitchers and split time in LF with Chavez.
And it’s possible that Wlad develops into a good player, but I (and plenty of others) just don’t see it.
by Aaron Campeau on Feb 19, 2009 3:21 PM PST up reply actions
Fair enough
It’s your opinion and the opinion of many others that Wlad won’t develop into a good player. I actually happen to agree with you, but… if I’m in the Mariners’ situation (where the playoffs are in the distant future), I’d rather just find out whether Wlad can become a good player, rather than relying on a crystal ball or scouting reports or sabermetrics or whatever.
Anyway, I’m beating a dead horse. I think you get what I’m saying, and I know I get what you’re saying…
"It is the mark of an educated mind to expect that amount of exactness which the nature of the particular subject admits." - The Not Big Aristotle
by Uncle Charlie on Feb 19, 2009 3:35 PM PST up reply actions
You're totally ignoring my larger point, which is that this signing is not really going to effect Wlad's playing time in any meaningful way.
And no one has given me a decent reason to believe that the Mariners can’t be legitimate playoff contenders in 2010.
by Aaron Campeau on Feb 19, 2009 3:49 PM PST up reply actions
I guess I'm confused...
… how signing Griff doesn’t affect Wlad’s PT in any meaningful way. Is Griffey Jr. not going to play LF at all? If he’s not, then I suppose you are right, but… then the Griffey signing cuts into Clement’s PT, which is an even worse move for the Mariners. So, either you cut Wlad’s ABs or you cut Clement’s ABs. Neither seems smart.
As for a good reason to believe the M’s can’t compete in 2009 or 2010, I think you could just look at the PECOTA projections posted this morning… based on current rosters, PECOTA projects the AL West to finish as follows: Angels (84-78), A’s (82-80), Rangers (72-90), and Mariners (70-92). You may beg to differ with PECOTA’s projections, or you may hope that the Mariners can play way above their projected heads this season, but that’s at least a “decent reason to believe the Mariners can’t be legitimate playoff contenders” this season.
"It is the mark of an educated mind to expect that amount of exactness which the nature of the particular subject admits." - The Not Big Aristotle
by Uncle Charlie on Feb 19, 2009 4:13 PM PST up reply actions
I don't love PECOTA as a predictive tool for teams, and I said 2010.
Griffey probably isn’t going to play in the OF very much at all, and Clement will get the majority of his ABs at catcher.
by Aaron Campeau on Feb 19, 2009 4:17 PM PST up reply actions
So the M's signed Johjima to a 3-year deal...
… to park him behind Clement as a backup. Or, are Clement and Kenji going to split time, in which case, why pay Johjima so much damn money?
"It is the mark of an educated mind to expect that amount of exactness which the nature of the particular subject admits." - The Not Big Aristotle
by Uncle Charlie on Feb 19, 2009 4:58 PM PST up reply actions
Because ownership mandated it and Bavasi was bad at his job.
by Aaron Campeau on Feb 19, 2009 5:02 PM PST up reply actions
Gotcha
As a non-M’s fan, I have to remember that this is an organization built by two separate regimes. The Kenji contract is a holdover from the Bavasi Administration…
"It is the mark of an educated mind to expect that amount of exactness which the nature of the particular subject admits." - The Not Big Aristotle
by Uncle Charlie on Feb 20, 2009 9:48 AM PST up reply actions
PECOTA doesn't evaluate defense properly, or slot playing time properly.
…Team defense is one of the Mariners’ biggest assets.
it’s a useful tool for evaluating individuals (except for their defense), but I wouldn’t take any of their RA projections seriously.
by JI on Feb 19, 2009 4:51 PM PST up reply actions
*Also a great question for the next PAQ thread would be
Why are BP’s defensive evaluations crap?
by JI on Feb 19, 2009 4:53 PM PST up reply actions
OK...
So assuming the M’s aren’t 140 runs better than the Halos, and 120 runs better defensively than the A’s…
The A’s are pretty darn good defensively. The Angels might be a little behind the A’s, but not that much. Tough to argue that the M’s defense, which is admittedly good, is that much better than those two teams.
"It is the mark of an educated mind to expect that amount of exactness which the nature of the particular subject admits." - The Not Big Aristotle
by Uncle Charlie on Feb 19, 2009 4:57 PM PST up reply actions
The Mariners defense is so much better than the Angels it's not even funny.
by Aaron Campeau on Feb 19, 2009 5:03 PM PST up reply actions
Yes, but...
… you could put eight fire hydrants out in the field and they wouldn’t be 140 runs worse than the M’s defense. You simply can’t make up that many runs on defense, no matter how bad the Angels D may be.
And… the A’s defense is right there with the M’s defense (A’s infield is probably better than the M’s; M’s outfield is probably better than the A’s), so you basically have no advantage there.
"It is the mark of an educated mind to expect that amount of exactness which the nature of the particular subject admits." - The Not Big Aristotle
by Uncle Charlie on Feb 20, 2009 9:47 AM PST up reply actions
Incidentally
the difference between the best and worst defensive teams last year by UZR was 141 runs.
by Jeff Sullivan on Feb 20, 2009 9:55 AM PST up reply actions
No shit?
I stand corrected.
"It is the mark of an educated mind to expect that amount of exactness which the nature of the particular subject admits." - The Not Big Aristotle
by Uncle Charlie on Feb 20, 2009 10:57 AM PST up reply actions
Obviously those are the extremes
but defense matters an awful awful lot.
by Jeff Sullivan on Feb 20, 2009 12:20 PM PST up reply actions
Who are they planning on starting?
When I went through the Marcels, their infield looked a bit above average, but most of those guys were utility players.
by JI on Feb 19, 2009 6:52 PM PST up reply actions
At second glance those four look slightly better than neutral
to go along with their clusterfuck of an outfield. (I know you can express that in a much more meaningful way)… in other words root for a lot of Abreu/Hunter/Vlad.
by JI on Feb 19, 2009 7:23 PM PST up reply actions
Also...
… if you’re willing to spend $4.5 million on Griff, why not outbid the Nats on Adam Dunn or outbid the Angels on Abreu? It’s possible Dunn and Abreu didn’t want to play in the northwest, but you have to think that there was some price where it would have been impossible for those guys to turn down Seattle’s money. The fact that the M’s settled for Griff rather than spending on Abreu or Dunn suggests this was all about keeping fans happy… but keeping fan happy generally is not a good reason to make a baseball decision, especially one that involves slowing the development of two of your young players (Balentin and Clement). I like most of the moves that Seattle made this offseason, but this one is just dumb.
"It is the mark of an educated mind to expect that amount of exactness which the nature of the particular subject admits." - The Not Big Aristotle
by Uncle Charlie on Feb 19, 2009 3:04 PM PST up reply actions
It's not for $4.5 million.
There’s also the fact that ownership was willing to spend on Griffey and not other players.
Seriously, you’re making way too much of this.
by Aaron Campeau on Feb 19, 2009 3:06 PM PST up reply actions
Dunn wasn't going to DH and we couldn't afford Abreu
by Jeff Sullivan on Feb 19, 2009 3:54 PM PST up reply actions
We wanted Bradley but Bradley didn't want us
I think all parties would have been ecstatic about Bradley.
by JI on Feb 19, 2009 3:56 PM PST up reply actions
This isn't a logical argument.
The Ms were under a severe budget constriction. If you refrain from making value judgments on moves before you attempt to find out all the relevant circumstances, you will come out far more ahead than when you make leaps of faith and then deride someone for not agreeing with you.
Say what?
“If you refrain from making value judgments on moves before you attempt to find out all the relevant circumstances, you will come out far more ahead than when you make leaps of faith and then deride someone for not agreeing with you.” Uhh… what?
"It is the mark of an educated mind to expect that amount of exactness which the nature of the particular subject admits." - The Not Big Aristotle
by Uncle Charlie on Feb 20, 2009 9:50 AM PST up reply actions
You did not take the time to get all of the information.
Therefore your assertion about this move was wrong due to you being uninformed. In this case being uniformed was your fault and not the fault of someone else.
Did that help?
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