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Around SBN: Knicks Beat Lakers With Familiar Strategy

Adding Value on the Bases

Ichiro Suzuki seemed like he had a pretty big down year in 2008. FanGraphs listed him at a .339 wOBA and just 6.6 runs above average, barely above his worst offensive season in 2005 (6.5 runs). On the first year of his 5 year, $90 million contract, it seemed precipitous and would usher in even more loud chatter about the need to trade Ichiro. For most people, that's where the evaluation ends.

But we're just a bit more deep into numbers and so we first chip away by trying to control for the home park. Of course, Safeco Field plays a hand in depressing Ichiro's offense, and you have to adjust the offense upward, endung up around 9.5 to 10.0 runs above average. I believe most lay-people will grant you this adjustment, even if they do not make that adjustment themselves. Still, it's not that big of a difference.

Of course, we know that batting is only one side of a position player's job and that we want to value defense. So we go to add in the players range ability, of which Ichiro gets a boost of another 2 runs by UZR. Again, this is probably something most people will grant you after you bring it up, though they'll be wary of putting numbers to it. We don't stop there though, knowing as we know from Tango how the different positions are valuable. Thus, we factor in the positions that Ichiro played, a mix of center and right field which came out to three to four runs below average (center field is +2.5, right field is -7.75). It's more than enough to wipe away his positive gain from the glove.

All in all, we would say Ichiro was about 10 runs above average last year and you might even get most people to agree with that assessment. Finally, we added an adjustment for replacement level, which because of the high number of plate appearances gives him a boost of 25 runs.

Adding that all up gave us a value of about 35 runs over replacement, 3.5 wins, worth just over $15 million by 2008's $4.4 million per win standard. Not too shabby, but not quite worth his $17 million salary^. So maybe there is something to Ichiro being over-rated/over-paid/over-whatever right?

Well... FanGraphs added in arm ratings, along the lines of the emminent John Walsh's formula and Ichiro gained another 5.5 runs and it pushed Ichiro's 2008 value up to $17.5 million, surpassing his salary. Still, that's not a great sign that in year one of five, Ichiro just barely matched his salary right?

Well... We still have one factor missing and that's base running. We know Ichiro is a fantastic base stealer, no matter how often other members of the Seattle Mariners think he should be attempting to steal. Dan Fox, one of the good guys at BP, has put together some base running figures and 2007 and 2008 data is freely available here. Ichiro came in with an additional seven runs in 2007, tenth best in baseball. However, in 2008, Ichiro topped even that, notching a whopping 12.7 runs, tops in all of baseball. 12.7 runs is huge! And it's split about evenly between the value of his incredible stolen base success rate and his ability to take the other base.

If Dan Fox's formula is credible (I don't know what it is, but coming up with values for base running is not new and so I assume it's a rather standard valuation), that pumps Ichiro's value to 5.2 wins last season, worth a tad under $22 million.

Even when Ichiro has a down year with the bat, he does so many other things well that he makes up for it and then some. Ichiro is a fantastic baseball player, one of the best in the game, and people that do not realize it are just robbing themselves of a chance to appreciate Ichiro's ability while it is on display in front of them. Seriously people, Ichiro is awesome, don't wait until he's finally gone to come around.

Star-divide

^A decent portion of Ichiro's salary is deferred which comes out to a net present value of $17.1 million per year

(Hat tip: BtB)

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How about large and helpful banners?

sort of the equivelent of of the diamond vision, dropped down to point out helpful tidbits about how Ichiro and Beltre actually earn their salaries, the wins Ichi brings, etc etc….

by msb on Feb 18, 2009 7:12 PM PST up reply actions  

As someone who doesn't live in Seattle or read mainstream Mariners coverage

how much does he get attacked for being overrated/overpaid by local fans/media?

by MartinVanBuren on Feb 18, 2009 4:09 PM PST reply actions  

This is why the Mariners need Griffey.

They could use a real ballplayer. A former clubhouse leader. A guy who really plays the game right.

by MartinVanBuren on Feb 18, 2009 4:17 PM PST up reply actions  

That's what I thought....

And the answer is yes:
" David Appelman says:
November 25, 2008 at 2:45 pm

wOBA does include SB and CS on FanGraphs."

by marc w on Feb 18, 2009 4:23 PM PST up reply actions  

Meh,

So use SC’s wOBA (9.4 bRAA) instead and knock 0.5 runs off Ichiro’s totals above.

by Matthew on Feb 18, 2009 4:28 PM PST up reply actions  

Stealing

Looking at Ichiro’s stats, he stole his 3rd-highest number of bases in ’08 (43) and was only caught 4 times for a 91.4% success rate, against his career success rate of 81.8%. In ’06 he was just crazy, swiping 45 bags and only getting caught twice!

Given that the AL leader in SBs generally hovers around the 45-65 range in the past 10 years, I’m not sure what more they can ask of him. Do you guys think Waka will send him more often next season?

I think I remember reading that under Grover/Mac he pretty much had a green light to go whenever he feels like it’s a good situation. I wonder if that will continue.

by appleshampoo on Feb 18, 2009 4:21 PM PST reply actions  

If Waka sends him more, I hope he does so for the right reasons.

And not just because people say that he should.

You're trying to kidnap what I've rightfully stolen.

by Sentinel on Feb 19, 2009 4:11 PM PST up reply actions  

Dan Fox's theories were credible enough to get him hired by the Pittsburgh Pirates.

I know that’s not much of an endorsement, but that’s what I have.

And he laughed when I told him this:

“Given how hapless the Pirates have been in recent decades, I’m sure any future improvement will be entirely your doing. After all, if they could have done it without you, they’ve already had plenty of time.”

I like using semi-colons; they make me feel smart.

by Llewdor on Feb 18, 2009 4:22 PM PST reply actions  

Question:

You took wOBA at SC instead of Fangraphs to take away the SB/CS equation, and then you added it back by using Dan Fox’s formula. So I assume that Fox’s is SB/CS combined with the other aspects of baserunning such as going from first to third on a hit and beating out double plays and such. Is that correct?

by Double06 on Feb 18, 2009 5:03 PM PST reply actions  

"people that do not realize it are just robbing themselves of a chance to appreciate Ichiro's ability while it is on display in front of them."

Amen. I have sat in the lower RF section a few times the past couple years and I have seen some incredible plays by Ichiro. Including once in 2007 when I am sure he single-handedly saved Fiererabend from being shelled.

by Fin on Feb 18, 2009 5:13 PM PST reply actions  

I was going to reply to this quote too.

I did this with Mike Cameron when he was here, and I’ll be damned before I do it with Ichiro or Beltre.

by Double06 on Feb 18, 2009 5:16 PM PST up reply actions  

You're wrong!

Ichiro is 110% personally responsible for losing 100 games. Taking extra bases by whatever means is the ultimate expression of his selfishness. He’s overpaid and overrated and we should trade him immediately for no less than a case of Big League Chew. /sarcasm

Thanks for pointing out more of the obvious regarding Ichiro.

It seems to me we have two players in Ichiro and Beltre that are among the league leaders in being undeservedly vilified by segments of their own fanbase.

"We are a bad defensive team" -B. Cashman

by Big Jared on Feb 18, 2009 5:26 PM PST reply actions  

I don't get something. (And hopefully it'll be an easy answer and I'm just mising something)

Are each of these stats turned into runs (and wins) individually or as a set?

Because you have him as +35 over the season under the “normal” stats, then add the arm and the base stealing. Wouldn’t calculating the base stealing and the arm ratings make the run values of the “normal” stats worth less as opposed to the others?

In short, do the runs add up with the new stats included?

It's hard to convince people to let you eat them if you're an asshole. - Thingray

by Faux on Feb 18, 2009 5:34 PM PST reply actions  

Let's see if I can put this clearer.

X runs are scored in a season. If you add up all these runs saved and earned by all the players in a league, do they match the total number of runs scored in the league?

If so, is that done for each stat in a vacuum, or are they all judged in relation to eachother?

It's hard to convince people to let you eat them if you're an asshole. - Thingray

by Faux on Feb 18, 2009 5:46 PM PST up reply actions  

baserunning and wOBA

If you want to use fangraphs wOBA and not double count SB-CS, just subtract the EQSBR figure from total baserunning total and use that figure for baserunning.

by supersam on Feb 18, 2009 6:38 PM PST reply actions  

fangraphs wOBA and RBOE

Why doesn’t fangraphs wOBA include RBOE? I believe I read somewhere that RBOE correlates well from year to year for hitters. Also, where can RBOE data be found?

by supersam on Feb 18, 2009 8:23 PM PST up reply actions  

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