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p.s.

I posted this for discussion on Saturday a.m., but it had vanished/been removed by Sunday night. If it’s some kind of violation please let me know.

by lemonverbena on Feb 16, 2009 7:55 AM PST reply actions   0 recs

Even Hank Aaron himself

says that the record book should be left alone.

Nice Guys Finish Third - Hopelessly lost, but makin' good time.

by pdb on Feb 16, 2009 7:56 AM PST reply actions   0 recs

Good for Hammerin' Hank, but it ain't up to him.

And really, what would you expect him to say. If he threw Bonds under the bus he’d never hear the end of it. There’s probably little chance that records will be changed or asterisks added anyway. Where would you draw the line? HRs? All hitting stats? Erase Roger Clemens from the book? Too confusing. With that said, I think it’s being considered more seriously than ever.

Also, I hope this list shows that despite everything—his manner of departure from Seattle, his injury-riddled career since then, his dubious value to the M’s now—that Junior deserves respect.

by lemonverbena on Feb 16, 2009 8:15 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

If there's little chance that records will be changed

then what’s the point of posting this list? And I’m pretty sure that nobody’s “disrespecting” Junior.

Nice Guys Finish Third - Hopelessly lost, but makin' good time.

by pdb on Feb 16, 2009 8:33 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

The point is, this is what the All Time HR Leaders would look like w/out the Roid monsters.

That Bonds, A-Rod, McGwire etc are egomaniacal bastards that lied repeatedly and cheated the game. That if I was magically Commissioner of Baseball, that these players would at least have an asterisk next to their names.

Also, as a “nostalgic fanboy”, hoping to keep Griffey’s career in perspective. When/if he comes to the M’s for a fade-into-the-sunset season, I wonder how long before starts getting booed in the stadium and eviscerated in the blogosphere. Inevitable maybe but just hoping people can keep the guy’s career in perspective.

by lemonverbena on Feb 16, 2009 10:50 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

How do you know that Griffey never took steroids

or that any of the other old time players never cheated?

by JI on Feb 16, 2009 11:21 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Don't you know

that before 1997, nobody in the history of baseball ever cheated, ever? NOT ONCE.

Nice Guys Finish Third - Hopelessly lost, but makin' good time.

by pdb on Feb 16, 2009 12:47 PM PST up reply actions   1 recs

Ugh.

Yesterday's Pants
A blog-thingy about the Mariners and stuff.

by BrettJMiller on Feb 16, 2009 10:10 AM PST reply actions   0 recs

To recap

1). Throwing spitballs which is explicitly forbidden under MLB rules—→ OK!
2). Taking steroids which, until recently was not forbidden by MLB rules —→ Worthy of having your name and accomplishments expunged from all baseball records.

The only thing I find offensive about steroids is the arms race it creates amongst the players, and the general risks involved. When remove these guys names, the you have delete the ’51 Giants, anything John McGraw had his name attached to, every title the Reds won while Pete Rose was a member of the team, the White Sox 1917 championship, and so forth. If you pull one thread from the tapestry of history the entire lot becomes unraveled. (OK that was lame, but it gets my point across)

by JI on Feb 16, 2009 12:04 PM PST up reply actions   1 recs

This, plus what Faux says below.

You cannot, cannot!, focus just on the hitters! Pitchers used roids too, so what’s the adjustment for roided up hitters hitting off roided up pitchers? Babe Ruth played before baseball was integrated, what’s the adjustment on that? Jr played his entire career so far in homerun bandboxes, what’s the adjustment on that?

The entire idea of crossing off names from the history books isn’t even worthy of a Geoff Baker analytical article.

by Matthew on Feb 16, 2009 9:19 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Fair enough. And as I qualified above, very unlikely anyway.

It’s just that steroids, combined with a lot of other factors of the modern game and pro sports in general, have taken a lot of the enjoyment out of it for me. Does that mean you actually start scratching names out of the record books? Probably not. But it was satisfying to do it hypothetically. Screw those guys. They seriously warped what the game was, or what many of us thought it was, supposed to be.

by lemonverbena on Feb 17, 2009 1:33 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

How many more HRs would have any of them have hit if they weren't always facing roided up pitchers?

Fixating on HRs and power is what got us into this stupidity. Let’s fixate on it more to get ourselves out.

It's hard to convince people to let you eat them if you're an asshole. - Thingray

by Faux on Feb 16, 2009 1:49 PM PST reply actions   1 recs

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