Time To Get Used To It
by Jeff Sullivan on Feb 11, 2009 11:17 PM PST
in Miscellaneous
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PrintAt this point, it's all but a certainty. Ken Griffey Jr. is going to sign with the Seattle Mariners and, in so doing, make sure that Safeco is overrun by nostalgic fanboys, provide Chuck Armstrong with positive reinforcement for meddling in the GM's business, and guarantee that, when the M's perform above expectations, the media wastes column after column praising Griffey's leadership rather than giving credit to the parties responsible for the turnaround. Between those and the more obvious performance-related concerns, this is a move that comes with a lot of potential downsides and annoyances.
But the upsides...well, I don't even really need to tell you about the upsides, do I? The upsides are all the pro-Griffey crowd ever talks about, and it's not like that's a particularly silent minority*. Griffey's a lefty power bat who can still tee off on righties from time to time. Employed properly, he could be a moderately effective player. And even if he sucks, I have to admit that his home runs will mean a teensy bit more than anyone else's, and that's coming from a guy who didn't want Griffey to sign. As much as I want to characterize Griffey as just another set of numbers, there's no denying that he isn't. He's Ken Griffey Jr. Actually, given his post-30 weight gain, he's several Ken Griffey Jrs. You can try to train your brain to think a million different things, but at the end of the day, your brain is going to think what it wants to think, and my brain wants to think that Griffey is still super awesome. I've tried to convince it that it's wrong, but so far, no dice. Stupid brain.
I know the negative things I've said before about Griffey's ability to be true, but it's almost impossible to condition your own emotional responses, and there's no doubt in my mind that my emotional response upon seeing Griffey in a Mariner uniform will be a positive one. I won't be able to help it, and neither, I imagine, will you, provided you were a fan of this team in the 90s. It'll be automatic. And so with that in mind - assuming Zduriencik doesn't pull a fast one on all of us and sign GA - I'm just going to accept this as our reality and play along as best I can. I'll cheer for him in the opener, hope he surpasses my expectations, and pray that, if he doesn't, we don't miss the playoffs by one of two games. If we're already going so far as to bring Griffey home, we might as well root for him to get his storybook ending. No sense in being a wet blanket.
I didn't want this, but I got this, and so I have to make the best of it. And if that means that the pain of a loss is alleviated by Griffey going 2-4 with a double, then I haven't much of a choice. Here's to Griffey, here's to the M's, and here's to the overlapping of their successes. There are Mariner fans who just want to see Junior go deep, and there are Mariner fans who just want to see the team win. May the future be kind to us all.
-----
As a final note, Griffey's been gone a long time, so for your convenience I submitted an image of him in his Mariner days to an online aging service so that we'll be able to recognize him when he shows up in uniform. I have attached the resulting image below.
I don't know how the software got that caption in there, but I'm not going to argue. It's science.
*Majority?
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I will be satisfied with Griffey at DH and then have him start his final series in Seattle out in CF (pending contention status).
Griffey will be a sight for sore eyes at DH no matter how he hits. Our run of DHs since Edgar’s retirement has been atrocious.
Yep.
Well, on the bright side, I guess this means I’ll get to see him on Seattle’s turf, finally. Not Version 1.0, but I’ll settle…
I will say this.
I’m looking forward to the eventual commercial that ends with a shot of Griffey’s back, wearing number 24, walking out on to the field. In that shot, Dave Niehaus simply says “Welcome back, Junior.”
Then, and only then, will I allow myself to feel warm and fuzzy about Griffey.
Now, if they actually let him play the field on a regular basis, that’s another story entirely.
I'm already getting used to it.
Bring on Old Man Griffey (like, OMG).
by ThundaPC on Feb 11, 2009 11:37 PM PST reply actions 1 recs
Sooooo
getting ahead of ourselves, but this would likely guarantee he has a Mariner’s hat on his HOF plaque right?
Honestly, that useless perk is about the only upside I am seeing in this.
I think that's pretty much guaranteed regardless of if he signs with the M's.
Unless he were to go somewhere on a one year deal, get into the post season, and have a better playoffs than his ALDS vs. the Yankees in ’95.
by Two Rs and Two Ls on Feb 11, 2009 11:55 PM PST up reply actions
Not even then
The body of his work’s in Seattle.
by eponymous_coward on Feb 11, 2009 11:57 PM PST up reply actions
But it would take something absolutely ridiculous like that to put it at all in question.
by Two Rs and Two Ls on Feb 12, 2009 12:01 AM PST up reply actions
No, it wouldn't.
Seriously. One postseason does not a career make, even if it’s the only season you make the World Series, and you hit great in it.
The Hall of Fame is pretty specific about that- it’s where you do your body of work and “make your indelible mark” for your career. This is why RJ is a D-Back, probably (multiple Cy Youngs), and Maddux is a Brave (ditto).
by eponymous_coward on Feb 12, 2009 8:25 AM PST up reply actions
I think you're both wrong
Doesn’t the player get to “make a strong request” as to what hat they wear? And I think Griffey’s made it pretty clear already that he wants to go in as a Mariner (see: his speech last spring). Unless a player requests a team that they only played for a for a few days, I was under the impression the Hall honored their requests.
Not anymore. The Hall got tired of old players having contracts (Boggs in TB?)
That would stipulate which hat was to be worn. So the Hall announced it was their call.
Unless that changed along the way that is how they currently operate.
As far as I'm aware, the Hall makes the decision.
And Eponymous is totally right in that, really, when any fan thinks about Griffey, they think about him robbing HRs in Seattle and his ’97 MVP season, which makes him a virtual lock to go in the hall as a Mariner, even if he wanted to be remembered as a White Sock.
My position is that it would take an incredibly ridiculous season (i.e. Bonds 2001) where he somehow makes people forget about his time in Seattle, blows the crap out of everyone, and does it on the game’s biggest stage for the Hall to even consider putting him in as anything besides a Mariner.
by Two Rs and Two Ls on Feb 12, 2009 5:11 PM PST up reply actions
Your avatar = instant win.
"Part, fools!
Put up your swords. You know not what you do."
by Fearless Frog on Feb 12, 2009 9:51 PM PST up reply actions
Heh, yeah.
I remember seeing that picture sometime around summer of last season. I advocated it but obviously it’ll never happen.
"Part, fools!
Put up your swords. You know not what you do."
by Fearless Frog on Feb 13, 2009 11:33 AM PST up reply actions
Goddammit.
I will smash your face into a jelly.
by Phil Hatzenbuehler on Feb 13, 2009 8:42 AM PST up reply actions
He needs to get 2 home runs to make 400 as a Mariner, if I remember correctly. I want to see that get done.
If he gets hurt and misses most of the season after he does that, I won’t complain too much.
by Two Rs and Two Ls on Feb 11, 2009 11:54 PM PST reply actions
That is why I loved that last game in their three game series here two years ago.
Junior hit two home runs and we won the game. Hitting those two made it feel like he finally got to 400.
Fear the NPE
You know, the original trade in the '99-'00 offseason happened at around midnight or something odd.
Do you suppose they’d make the signing official at some weird time like that?
by Two Rs and Two Ls on Feb 12, 2009 12:02 AM PST reply actions
I still say...
…that the blogosphere is being a bit conservative in just how many extra tickets KGJ would sell (above and beyond the regular ticket buying public). There are a lot of people whose baseball fandom centered around Griffey and while they recognize he’s no longer that player, they still want to come see him play at least one more time in person. Yeah, he’s likely to suck pretty hard core most of the time, and runs a pretty high risk of being injured. I don’t deny that. But still — accepting that a lot of people disagree — I’m not so sure he couldn’t fill up Safeco a few extra times, even if it is at the bookends of the season. I know I’m going to buy tickets for both the opener and the last game if he signs. Normally, I buy just the opener, but I’d spring for the extra just for the chance that he’s healthy enough to play in the last game. And if they announce a “KGJ Day” like they did for Edgar that wasn’t on the last day of the season, I’d buy tickets for that game too.
Yeah, the novelty will not sustain itself for the entire season, but it doesn’t have to. The M’s DESPERATELY need something to draw fans in during a season of rebuilding. People paying attention to the M’s is good for everyone.
This signature space for rent.
Do you suppose it would be about even to the Safeco Field new-ballpark-smell attendance spike?
Or more dramatic just because this figures on being a one-year deal?
by Two Rs and Two Ls on Feb 12, 2009 12:05 AM PST up reply actions
I know one thing, if he announces his retirement, I will also be buying a ticket for the last game of the season just for the fact that it's Griffey's last game.
You can't hide from the omnipresent eye.
Going 20-8 in April or being in a playoff race for a few months would draw far more people.
I hope people coming to see Griffey will come out and say “Wow, this is a good team!” “Look at how awesome that outfield defense is!” “This Felix guy can really pitch!” “I guess they really are building toward something!”
But that isn’t going to happen. The “Griffey fan” will come see Griffey take a few at bats and leave after the 6th inning.
They will come back at the end of 2010 when the team is winning again. And they will ask why Griffey isn’t playing anymore.
Disagree
Who exactly did people come out to see in 2001? Sure, that was a team coming off an ALCS appearance, but there was no one besides Edgar who had a long-term connection with the team (since Buhner barely played). People will come see winning baseball, no matter who’s playing.
I'd rather know a little about a lot than a lot about a little
Here's where I'm skeptical...
The Mariners have lost a lot of fans over the last 3-4 years. A lot. The team was pretty competitive in 2007 – even being reasonably close to the playoffs and in within 2-3 games of first up into August. They were 20 games over .500 at the end of August, and 1 game back just before going into the fateful series vs. the Angels at home (after leaving Texas they were 3 games back, having lost 2 of 3 there). Attendance certainly spiked for that Angels series, but completely collapsed there after with the team’s collapse. Prior to that home series vs. the Angels, though, the attendance certainly wasn’t crazy (when the team was indeed well over .500 and in a playoff race).
Even with, say, Abreu instead of Griffey, the team would need some major miracles to go 20-8 in April, and be in the thick of a playoff race for most of the season. The 2009 M’s are likely a much better team than the 2008 M’s, but I’m not convinced that they’re a playoff team, even with a better bat than Griffey. But even if they WERE a playoff caliber team, it’d take something pretty special (i.e. like 2001’s team) to get a lot of people to pay attention. Especially with the “no-names” that they’ve added. I don’t see a lot of casual fans going gung-ho after Franklin Gutierrez or Endy Chavez jerseys. But they’d certainly go after Griffey jerseys AND tickets to see him play. Especially when The Yellow Dart and the rest of the M’s marketing crew take full advantage of the Griffey signing and market the crap out of his return for those late-April, early-May cold home dates where attendance is less-than-stellar.
This signature space for rent.
by PositivePaul on Feb 12, 2009 10:12 AM PST up reply actions
So you're saying basically
unless the Mariners are the greatest team of all time, they’re going to have trouble drawing?
Somewhat...
Had they NOT signed Griffey, it’d take some serious winning for the team to draw back in the fans that have been burned since 2004 — not just merely being close to contention. Yes, winning would help a lot — but it’d take awhile for the fans to re-gain interest.
But, then, I’m also in the very small minority of people that think that Griffey might actually contribute a reasonable amount and that his signing doesn’t make them a worse team (i.e. it’s a move that could at least potentially HELP the team move towards contention), so I am rather biased. No, I don’t think he’ll OPS over .850 or hit more than 20-25 HRs at best — most certainly not the numbers most fans remember him putting up. But as long as he stays relatively healthy, he’ll hit decently. Certainly a lot better than what we got from the previous DHs…
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by PositivePaul on Feb 12, 2009 10:56 AM PST up reply actions
I think they'll see a push for opening and closing week (assuming he retires)
But if we’re losing in the summer, it won’t matter much unless Griffey is hitting the holy fuck out of the ball.
I liken it to running into an old friend who you haven't seen for years
it’s fun to hang out for one night, but then the two of you realize you no longer have anything in common and while you still like the other person fine, you don’t want to hang out every night for next six months because you’d drive each other insane and end up resenting one another.
Right. I get that...
It’s just that there are a holy hellfull of Griffey fans – casual Griffey fans who really don’t care too much about baseball. Not every one of them will be able to a) get tickets for early-season games (since they’re likely going to be VERY hard to come by) or b) arrange their schedule to make it to Safeco to a game. Heck, I’d even think that there are more than a few native Seattleites who watched him in the 1990s but now live out of town — and they’d make a special trip to see him play IN Seattle. No, those numbers don’t amount to much in the long run. But they still count for more than a few tickets.
This signature space for rent.
by PositivePaul on Feb 12, 2009 11:27 AM PST up reply actions
Good thing I read the rest of the thread. I was about to post this.
The M’s are going to have a tough draw regardless probably until June when the weather gets better. Griffey ought to mitigate that effect, though.
by Two Rs and Two Ls on Feb 12, 2009 11:22 AM PST up reply actions
The type of causal of fans that would be attracted to the ballpark just to see Griffey
Are the same fans that would go to a game just for a giveaway or because its a weekend or nice day.
*Raises hand in shame*
"Part, fools!
Put up your swords. You know not what you do."
by Fearless Frog on Feb 12, 2009 9:57 PM PST up reply actions
I'm curious to know what your opinion of the situation would be
If it weren’t Junior, just some guy who had Junior’s identical numbers (projections included).
Say we went after Bobby Abreu, couldn’t sign him for the price we wanted, so we got the second best guy, Ben Biffey III. Imagine no history, no expectations, no questions on motives from the Front Office, this was just another move that Z made. How you all feel about such a pickup?
*
how WOULD you all feel about such a pickup.
CHONE
Projections for Sweeny:
.253/.315/.406
12 HR, .319 wOBA
Projections for Griffey:
.243/.333/.418
19 HR, .332 wOBA
Also, Sweeney’s right handed.
My point was the team wanted to add a lefty bat anyway for the DH role and spotting occasional outfield starts. You could certainly do a lot worse, so I’m just curious what the response would be to this kind of pickup were it not Junior? Ambivalence, bemusement, anger?
I wasn’t a big “bring Griffey back” guy, but then when I considered that he actually fit the role we needed to fill anyway I was came to the conclusion that he should be second choice behind Abreu, so even if it weren’t Griffey I still would have probably been in favor of a move like this (assuming it goes down) with this skill set.
Concentration
Jesus I can’t type a sentence to save my life right now. I’m going to sleep.
I'd be upset that we missed on a cheap Abreu but I'd accept that we did the ~best we could do given our budget
I still would’ve rather seen a trade, but I guess that wasn’t feasible.
by Jeff Sullivan on Feb 12, 2009 6:58 AM PST up reply actions
I can't wait until 2029 when we're talking about bringing Felix back for one last hurrah.
You can't hide from the omnipresent eye.
I hope it doesn't come to that.
i.e. he’s here until 2029
by Mariner John on Feb 12, 2009 12:08 AM PST up reply actions
Agreed.
Hey, he says he wants to stay on his MySpace, and you’re not allowed to lie on those…right?
Yesterday's Pants
A blog-thingy about the Mariners and stuff.
by BrettJMiller on Feb 12, 2009 12:17 AM PST up reply actions
I'm happy
Look, was it the best solution from a purely baseball standpoint? Probably not. But guess what…he’s still Ken Griffey Jr, and if he retires as a Mariner it will make me (and a lot of other fans) happy
I'd rather know a little about a lot than a lot about a little
Furthermore
This is, I think, a deal that was inevitable from a money standpoint. Once it was clear that Griffey’s asking price was going to be in the $2-3 mil range, this became a slam dunk for the team. Coming off a 101-loss season, in a year where the economy has tanked, they couldn’t ask for a better selling point to the casual fan. Sure, we may think the team is close to contention, but most fans don’t, so they’re not going to buy tickets (especially for April/May games) unless they have some other reason to go. Griffey is that reason. If the team is competitive, people will show up in July/August/September no matter what, but those early season games count too, and I think the front office is seeing this as a can’t-miss opportunity.
I'd rather know a little about a lot than a lot about a little
by Sportszilla on Feb 12, 2009 12:20 AM PST up reply actions
Agreed
Even if he blows out his knee or hurts his back or whatever else in mid-June, he’d still be worth a two million dollar salary, provided he doesn’t spend too much time in the field. Hell, Silva gets paid 4 times that amount and doesn’t fill a single seat and was certainely a lot worse in 2008 than KGJ. It’s the Mariner’s best course of action, and because we all expect him to get hurt and therefore he signs for less, he could genuinely become a brilliant pickup worth far above his salary if he somehow finds a way to stay healthy.
Quick Question...
Anyone know when Mariners single game tix go on sale? I can’t find the date anywhere on the M’s site.
by Roy Weaver Stuckey on Feb 12, 2009 12:30 AM PST reply actions
That's traditionally been the day for some reason
by Mariner John on Feb 12, 2009 3:06 PM PST up reply actions
Sundays are slow days for Ticketmaster
and the first day single-game tix go on sale is always a big day so they do it on a Sunday so the spike in business doesn’t overwhelm people trying to buy tickets for other things.
Nice Guys Finish Third - Hopelessly lost, but makin' good time.
I hope this is a wonderful season for the team and the fans...
and this is the story book ending to Griffey’s career so many have been demanding for awhile now.
This would be hilarious
and very possibly make me cry.
by seattlebruin on Feb 12, 2009 8:32 AM PST up reply actions
I started following the Mariners just as Griffey was forcing them to trade him.
My loyalties are to Mike Cameron. Screw Griffey.
There are legions of fans who started following the M's
only because of Griffey. I’m one of them. It is people like us who, no matter how upset we were by the trade demand extortion, no matter how much we know that he ain’t the Griffey of old, still love the idea of seeing him back with the M’s. As long as he won’t cost too much and as long as he won’t play in the field and as long as he won’t hit against left-handers – even though we all remember the announcers telling us how he hit lefties as well as righties because he learned to hit against his father, who was left-handed – we can’t get past the nostalgia and the appropriateness of his coming back to where it all began.
And I say this as a huge Mike Cameron fan, he who hit four home runs on my birthday once.
Griffey was my favorite player up until the day he forced his way out.
This would have been fun two years ago when he would have been a decent DH, but I have no interest in getting in a year long trip on the nostalgia train because I don’t want my last memories of him causing this team to lose.
by JI on Feb 12, 2009 9:51 AM PST up reply actions
Griffey is STILL my favorite player, even with the force out.
I feel as though any bad memories of Griffey were simply suppressed.
Who were the players people loved beyond all reason before Griffey? Trying to put myself in b_riders shoes.
Can’t think of a single one, and it seems like I’m missing something. Mark Langston was pretty good, but he wasn’t the caliber of player that could steal my heart. Griffey’s swing, RJ making a batter’s knees buckle with his slider, Dan Wilson calling 5 forkballs in the dirt, in a row. Everything about Buhner was special. Moyer to a lesser extent, control pitchers are kind of hard to get excited about. Cammie, but he was filling Griffey’s shoes and I couldn’t fall for him.
Since then there’s been a lot of busts, Felix is top flight. I’m getting excited about Morrow. That’s a lot of years without a couple franchise type players, when you get used to seeing the best. Makes me sad for people just tuning into the team during these years.
The only one that was close was Langston
And he wasn’t really “loved beyond all reason”. There were lots of players that were appreciated, but Griffey’s unique; not just because of his prodigious baseball talent, but because he’s seen, rightly or wrongly, as singlehandedly leading the team to the playoffs for the first time and saving baseball in Seattle. Whether those two items are true or not is irrelevant as far as the Bring Back Griffey Brigade is concerned.
Nice Guys Finish Third - Hopelessly lost, but makin' good time.
I like how the season in which he led us to the playoffs was the season in which he missed the most games and had his worst numbers
by Jeff Sullivan on Feb 12, 2009 8:30 AM PST up reply actions
One thing I've learned from the Bring Back Griffey Brigade
never let the facts get in the way of a good story.
Nice Guys Finish Third - Hopelessly lost, but makin' good time.
.286 OBP in nearly 300 PAs.
But he made that amazing catch….
I honestly don’t remember being as out and out horrible as his stats indicate.
He had that one homer where he did the cool bat flip.
He was a badass defender though. His UZR was sick that year.
He was a badass defender, yes, but my god he couldn't hit.
I’m kind of taken aback by his stat lines now.
We've been down this road before
Diaz played good defense. He also hit like his grandmother.
I'd rather know a little about a lot than a lot about a little
by Sportszilla on Feb 12, 2009 10:00 AM PST up reply actions
Haha, I was waiting for you to reply.
Yes, I am one guy who thinks Griffey was incredibly overrated as a defender. It is really easy to make catches at the wall when you always position yourself 20 feet away from it.
That's smart, though...
When you’ve got a flyball-oriented pitching staff and are playing in a homer dome, you have to give a dude credit for being in position to make the plays. Being smart about positioning certainly should be credited to the fielder…
This signature space for rent.
by PositivePaul on Feb 12, 2009 11:14 AM PST up reply actions
And yeah
My rising to the bait was as predictable as, well, the Mariners resigning Griffey
I'd rather know a little about a lot than a lot about a little
by Sportszilla on Feb 12, 2009 12:00 PM PST up reply actions
How people always talk about Griffey that season
and forget about the numbers Edgar (.356/.479/.628) and Randy (214.3 IP, 294 Ks) put up is beyond me.
Who are they?
I fucking hate you Mariners
Holy fuck a Mariner had that battling line?!
I starting supporting in the wrong decade.
I was at Shea for the Felix-Slam!
Personal M's record: 5-4.
by EnglishMariner on Feb 12, 2009 10:55 AM PST up reply actions
Yep
A-Rod, Griffey, Edgar and Buhner were a Murderer’s Row. Other than the whole “not getting to the World Series” thing, it was really awesome.
The “watching Randy, Griffey and A-Rod leave town” thing sucked also.
by lemonverbena on Feb 12, 2009 11:00 AM PST up reply actions
Too bad the bullpen was awful and the non-RJ starters were nothing to write home about
because hot damn that team could hit
by seattlebruin on Feb 12, 2009 11:09 AM PST up reply actions
They had other starters
Esp. in 1997, when Moyer and Fassero were both quite good. Really highlights just how historically awful that bullpen was. Norm Charlton getting 70 innings of replacement-levelish performance in high leverage situations, Bob Wells sucking, the disaster that was Heathcliff Slocumb.
Oh huh
I always forget Fassero was good back then, and Moyer was just starting to become the Moyer we know now.
I guess I was thinking more of the Bob Wells/Ken Cloudes/Bob Walcotts of the world
by seattlebruin on Feb 12, 2009 11:17 AM PST up reply actions
Ken Cloude :(
Determined, Jonesing Commentor | Proud proprietor of Wyomingroutes.org & Washingtonhighways.org
Charlton was a heaven-sent savior compared to the rest of the firestarters
by lemonverbena on Feb 12, 2009 1:27 PM PST up reply actions
How did I miss this comment?
I think I saw him get at least 7 blown saves that year and that ignores road games. Norm’s arm was toast that year.
Yup
It’s not just that he was awful that year, it was that he got to demonstrate just how awful he was 71 times.
Whoa, I thought we were talking about 1995. Sorry.
Charlton was pretty clutch in ’95.
by lemonverbena on Feb 13, 2009 12:05 AM PST up reply actions
But this is maybe the point
His injury provides this even more ridiculous subplot to that season: we made the playoffs despite not having out best player, and one of the best players in the league, for 3 months.
He was also an utter beast against the Yankees (as was Edgar).
I'd rather know a little about a lot than a lot about a little
The first time, sure
but in 1997 he was pretty legitimately great.
Derense, Jeff, defense
He was ridiculously good in the playoffs
by JI on Feb 12, 2009 9:48 AM PST up reply actions
That's why I've never associated 1995 with Griffey
Edgar and Randy were always the biggest heroes of that year in my mind. In fact I had a 1996 baseball game for the PSX that featured the most retarded baseball engine ever designed to constantly remind me how poorly Griffey played that year. For some reason it thought that every players stats ought to match the last season’s stats exactly. Hence, every season Griffey would hit like crap with some power and Edgar was a monster. Honestly Baseball Stars on the NES had a better idea of baseball.
Let's put it in even MORE context...
Which sports player in ANY pro sport — or, heck, even College sports — in Seattle rivals Griffey’s belovedness? Largent? Payton? Wilkins? Sikma? Zorn? Easley? Edgar? RJ? Any of the Tuiasosopos? Fred Hutchinson? Slick Watts? Dr. Dan Doornink? Chip Hanauer?
Largent is probably second to Griffey, and maybe Edgar is up there too.
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by PositivePaul on Feb 12, 2009 10:22 AM PST up reply actions
Payton, definitely.
Then Edgar, then Largent.
Nice Guys Finish Third - Hopelessly lost, but makin' good time.
I was going to put him down, definitely...
This signature space for rent.
by PositivePaul on Feb 12, 2009 11:28 AM PST up reply actions
See, I don't know if college players are the same
Sure, Emtman was the largest reason that team won a Championship, but guys who only spend 3-4 years in town just can’t have the same resonance that a guy like Griffey, or Edgar, or Payton, or whomever has. You can grow up with those guys in a way that you can’t with a college player.
One guy who I think might have a chance to change that somewhat is Brandon Roy, but that’s in part because he’s been a local guy the whole time, and still plays close by.
I'd rather know a little about a lot than a lot about a little
by Sportszilla on Feb 12, 2009 12:02 PM PST up reply actions
Also, college rivalries split the fan base by more than half immediately.
There is no way the majority of the Seattle area would hold a college player above someone like Griffey, Payton, Edgar, or Largent.
Agreed.
I just threw it out there in case I was missing someone huge. Like Sonny Sixkiller or Jim Owens for those few really old ones among us…
This signature space for rent.
by PositivePaul on Feb 12, 2009 12:30 PM PST up reply actions
No Sir, I don't like it
Two reasons:
1) There will be a spike in non-fan attendance at Safeco. This will make tickets tougher to come by. Additionally, I know I should have been happy that the Mariners were so popular earlier this decade, but I never enjoyed going to Safeco between 2001 and 2003 and being surrounded by people talking on their cell phones about what Sarah wore to work yesterday. I feel like this is going to happen again.
2) Somewhere between the start of the off-season and now, I went from planning on purchasing a KGJ jersey to not being interested in one at all. I suspect it’s primarily for all the reasons you laid out in your first paragraph. I simply will not be pleased when Swisher, Abreu, and Dunn are all enjoying seasons that feature better numbers than Griffey’s, while meanwhile ownership & the local media are still singing praises that #24 is back.
We’ve all seen Edgar’s last tour of duty, and we’ve possibly seen Walter Jones’s as well. They weren’t wondrous celebrations of a player’s incredibly successful career. They were sad, and I was almost finding myself looking forward to when the player went away. I’m not interested in more of that.
.
They weren’t wondrous celebrations of a player’s incredibly successful career
I completely disagree.
You can't hide from the omnipresent eye.
Edgar's last game at Safeco was an amazing day
With that exception, the season was spent watching a man who I tremendously respect perform as a shell of his old self. That’s fine, and better watching Edgar than Carl Everett or Jose Vidro, but there was nothing poignant about watching him OPS in the low-700s.
I wonder how Griffey is going to top Edgar's career-ending double play
by Jeff Sullivan on Feb 12, 2009 6:54 AM PST up reply actions
He could do the opposite of what he did in Little Big League
All a one-game playoff against the Twins, Griffey somehow finding his way to the outfield. Then, with the go-ahead run on second base in the bottom of the twelfth inning, Joe Mauer can hit the ball to deep left-center field. Griffey will chase it down and make an incredible leap, but ultimately the ball will deflect off his glove, allowing the Twins to score and advance to the ALDS.
by katal on Feb 12, 2009 7:07 AM PST up reply actions 1 recs
That would be awesome
but then I’m a spiteful bastard like that. Hits a HR, trots around the bases, runs into the dugout, down to the clubhouse, and out the door. Done.
Nice Guys Finish Third - Hopelessly lost, but makin' good time.
Last season, I listened to a monologue about a woman's journey through the realm of moisterizer.
These things don’t go away, even when the team is terrible.
by Kirsten Schlewitz on Feb 12, 2009 11:17 AM PST up reply actions
From Katal's post above
I never enjoyed going to Safeco between 2001 and 2003 and being surrounded by people talking on their cell phones about what Sarah wore to work yesterday.
Nice Guys Finish Third - Hopelessly lost, but makin' good time.
I keep trying to tell people that but nobody listens to me
I guess I should stop telling that to random people I walk by on the sidewalk.
Nice Guys Finish Third - Hopelessly lost, but makin' good time.
Last May I laid into the woman who has sat behind us for the past four years.
She would sit there and talk about anything but the game non-stop every freaking time she showed up.
Thank God she moved to a different section this year.
Um, I told the lady who used to have seats behind me that I was tired
of hearing about her personal life every time she came to a game. Was I that unclear?
Playing off of NOLA's comment about how people come to the park
and basically ignore the game. For four years I had to listen to this woman chatter non-stop and I finally snapped and told her how I felt. She has since relocated to another section which makes me very happy.
This lady really threw you for a loop, eh?
Just talking about your experience messes with your mind.
Not that. I had some beers last night for the first time in a few weeks.
I’m a little slower than normal today.
those of us still on the wagon will miss you
Nice Guys Finish Third - Hopelessly lost, but makin' good time.
Rotoworld:
ESPN.com reports that the Mariners “have stepped up the pace in negotiations” with Ken Griffey Jr.
According to the report Griffey is seeking a one-year, $5 million deal, but the Mariners have also been linked recently to Garret Anderson.
You can't hide from the omnipresent eye.
That's $4.25M more than what Floyd signed for
Griffey had better put a lot of asses in seats.
by Graham MacAree on Feb 12, 2009 7:22 AM PST up reply actions
I might go to Safeco with a sign that reads
“Mick Foley Ken Griffey Jr. put my ass in this seat.”
You can't hide from the omnipresent eye.
by Goose on Feb 12, 2009 7:26 AM PST up reply actions 5 recs
Heck. Yes.
This signature space for rent.
by PositivePaul on Feb 12, 2009 10:24 AM PST up reply actions
All I know is that the only real reason I'm pissed about missing Opening Day this year is because I won't get to see Griffey in his first game back
Going and seeing him in July just won’t be the same
Determined, Jonesing Commentor | Proud proprietor of Wyomingroutes.org & Washingtonhighways.org
Why does the FO even bother trying to maintain these Garrett Anderson rumors?
I mean, how transparent of a ruse can you get? Like Jack Z is going to come to the people of Seattle saying, “hey, I know we got your hopes up with signing Junior for a farewell year, but…we got Garrett Anderson, formerly of our hated rivals, instead! HUZZAH!”
Silliness. And of course GA is even worse in objective terms than Junior.
Patriotism, Pepper, Professionalism
Wasn't it Chuck Armstrong who said we were looking at GA?
by Jeff Sullivan on Feb 12, 2009 8:43 AM PST up reply actions
Oh well, to the general public all those FO guys are probably the same.
Patriotism, Pepper, Professionalism
At this point this move is similar
to when someone puts their finger 1 inch away from your face and says “I’m not touching you”. ESPN is saying it’s getting closer.
I was about to ask whether Jeff made this post based on some news I hadn't seen. Apparently so.
Well, how about the M’s sign Junior and then trade for Nick Johnson to cushion the blow? I’d love to see my sad sack NL team send a good but superfluous player to my sad-sack AL team.
Patriotism, Pepper, Professionalism
Nick Johnson would be amazing and I would be super-excited
by Graham MacAree on Feb 12, 2009 8:07 AM PST up reply actions
Also Jarrod Washburn would be a great upgrade to the Nationals's rotation
by Graham MacAree on Feb 12, 2009 8:07 AM PST up reply actions
I was telling the truth
Isn’t that depressing?
by Graham MacAree on Feb 12, 2009 8:10 AM PST up reply actions 1 recs
Actually, I think you're exaggerating a bit.
Practically speaking, there isn’t much room for him. Lannan, Hill and Olsen are locks for the rotation. The 4th slot is almost certain to go to Odalis Perez, who was pretty much as good as Washburn last year and a hell of a lot cheaper (on a minor-league deal). For the 5th slot there’s Cabrera or Bergmann, and then you’ve got Jordan Zimmermann and Colin Balester as young guys who will likely be in the majors this year. I don’t see how an expensive Washburn is really preferable to any of these.
The only opening for a mediocrity like Washburn comes with injuries. If Hill isn’t healthy again (he never seems to be), or if Cabrera just has utterly lost it, then maybe there’s a spot for him. But this won’t be known until the season starts at the earliest.
Patriotism, Pepper, Professionalism
Washburn is much much better than Olsen
by Graham MacAree on Feb 12, 2009 8:16 AM PST up reply actions
Yeah, but at what price?
Look, I’m not saying it’s impossible the Nationals think the way you do and take Washburn. But it would be a stupid move, given that he’s a pricey mediocrity with one year on his contract. We’re not contending this year, and our OF looks to be defensively poor (especially if Dunn moves back to LF, see below), so where’s the margin in it?
I can’t see the FO taking on Washburn when their real goal this season is to see whether any of the young guys or junk they picked up in minor-league deals will shake out and be worth anything. Of course, who knows what will happen?
Patriotism, Pepper, Professionalism
I'm not saying a straight up deal
That would be retarded. But throw in some money, throw in a bullpen arm, and suddenly you have a reasonable trade proposal.
by Graham MacAree on Feb 12, 2009 8:19 AM PST up reply actions
(and by reasonable I mean dumb but Bowden might bite on it)
by Graham MacAree on Feb 12, 2009 8:21 AM PST up reply actions
I think you underestimated/misapprehend Jim Bowden.
Bowden is not a stupid GM when it comes to trades, for the most part. His one major weakness is, as noted ad nauseum for toolsy outfielders and ex-Reds. His other major weakness is that he seems to be guided largely by opportunism: if he sees a good deal to be made he’ll jump to make it, regardless of how it fits into any long-term plan for the franchise. (Long-term plan? What long-term plan?)
But he doesn’t really get hosed on stupid deals like this.
Patriotism, Pepper, Professionalism
I think you're overstating how stupid any trade would be
It’s a little bit pointless now, seeing as the premise was that Johnson had been declared surplus to requirements, but if you can swap out a player you don’t plan on using for a consistent, healthy #4 starter and a ‘pen arm without spending any more money, it’s a reasonable idea.
by Graham MacAree on Feb 12, 2009 8:31 AM PST up reply actions
Also keep in mind that the chances of Johnson being 100% healthy are about as good as the chances of an asteroid hitting the earth
Patriotism, Pepper, Professionalism
Which reminds me...
…someday I am going to take a vacation to Crater Lake in OR before I die. That place just seems like the coolest natural landmark in the United States, even neater than the Grand Canyon.
Patriotism, Pepper, Professionalism
Crater Lake is badass
And amazingly blue
by Graham MacAree on Feb 12, 2009 8:44 AM PST up reply actions
Apparently you can get vertigo from staring straight down into it, since it's so ridiculously crystal clear.
Patriotism, Pepper, Professionalism
I thought the Crater Lake water was overrated.
The Canadian Rockies always blow everything else away.
Let's say mid-level, large enough to obliterate a well-developed urban center.
Patriotism, Pepper, Professionalism
I'm rooting for Yankee Stadium or Fenway Park
Preferably while ESPN is nationally televising a Yankees-Red Sox game.
by eponymous_coward on Feb 12, 2009 8:49 AM PST up reply actions
This isn't a hosing.
If Johnson’s a bench player for the Nats, AND stays healthy the whole year, he’s maybe a 1-1.5 WAR player. Washburn’s a little over a 1 WAR pitcher.
Basically, you’re trading a player who has better upside that you can’t really get that upside from, and is a fair question mark to give you ANY upside, for a player with lower upside, but who’s almost a lock to give you that.
by eponymous_coward on Feb 12, 2009 8:35 AM PST up reply actions
I suppose.
But I think adding Washburn would merely be replicating the current outfielder problem with mediocre/question-mark pitchers: the Nats have so many of them right now that I think their goal is to see which might pan out and which ought to be tossed back into the river. Washburn merely creates a logjam that prevents this from happening: he has to be pitched every five days, and he’s not going to provide anything so explosively great that he’ll justify his presence on his own terms.
Also, doesn’t Washburn have a limited no-trade? Or am I hallucinating?
Patriotism, Pepper, Professionalism
And why would he waive it to go to the Washington Nationals, of all teams?
Patriotism, Pepper, Professionalism
I imagine you'd have to pay him a bonus equal to about what's left on his salary to get him to agree.
Patriotism, Pepper, Professionalism
Oh noes! says Rotoworld:
According to the Washington Post, the Nationals will play Adam Dunn in left field if Nick Johnson is healthy enough to start at first base.
Johnson told reporters Wednesday that he’d seek a trade rather than accept a bench role, but apparently that won’t be an issue. What will be an issue is that the Nationals have Josh Willingham, Elijah Dukes, Lastings Milledge and Austin Kearns in the outfield along with Dunn. Regardless of where Dunn plays, a trade to lessen the logjam seems likely.
You can't hide from the omnipresent eye.
OH NOES DROWNING IN OUTFIELDERS
HELP ELIJAH DUKES’ TUBE SOCKS ARE SUFFOCATING ME.
Patriotism, Pepper, Professionalism
The simple truth is that Bowden is going to be forced to either release outright or trade a couple of these guys for pennies on the dollar
This is what you get for not having any long-term plan.
Patriotism, Pepper, Professionalism
Sadly, he's not one of the problems, since he has a minor-league deal
You’re going to have to eat Josh Willingham and/or Austin Kearns, my friend!
Patriotism, Pepper, Professionalism
Even when done ironically, it still seems cheap and played-out.
Man, we really ran that Silva-fat meme into the ground in a hurry, didn’t we?
Patriotism, Pepper, Professionalism
I can't wait for this year's ironic Silva's So Thin meme
by Jeff Sullivan on Feb 12, 2009 8:44 AM PST up reply actions
I'm going with Silva's At A Weight That He Can Live With
Nice Guys Finish Third - Hopelessly lost, but makin' good time.
Perhaps we should call him Candylad
He’s a lad made of candy.
[ultra-obscure Pavement reference here]
Patriotism, Pepper, Professionalism
Well, he is getting what he asked for a long time ago...
by eponymous_coward on Feb 12, 2009 8:47 AM PST up reply actions
I am glad that at the very least we explored nearly every other option before resorting to this.
It would have been horribly demoralizing to see him sign a multi-year deal back in December but at least now we can still delude ourselves into thinking that Armstrong didn’t have nearly as much to do with this as he could have.
by Robert on Feb 12, 2009 9:12 AM PST reply actions 1 recs
I have no issue with this. I trust our manager is intelligent enough to know the shortcomings
of our roster. The only issue I had with bringing Griffey back was that he could take ABs from younger players. However, if Wak can work it right, Clement will catch on days where Griffey is DHing vs righties.
And on days where lefties are on the mound, Griffey can ride the pine while Clement DHs, and Joh catches.
I suppose you can make an argument that Wlad will have ABs eaten, but if Wlad Balentein cannot win a starting job over Endy Chavez, do I really care if he’s getting ABs at DH?? The answer is no.
Getting Griffey pretty much guarantees Wlad has to go away
There’s no way we carry Griffey, Chavez, and Wlad on the same team
Determined, Jonesing Commentor | Proud proprietor of Wyomingroutes.org & Washingtonhighways.org
There's only 5 bench spots
You’ve got three bench locks in Johjima, Chavez, and Cedeno then one of Sweeney/Shelton/Morse, then one of Morse/Burke/Wlad/Corona with Corona having the upper edge.
So there’s an outside possibility there but I don’t see it as particularly likely
Determined, Jonesing Commentor | Proud proprietor of Wyomingroutes.org & Washingtonhighways.org
Griffey is presumably coming to DH
Given five bench spots, Wlad still fits. (Clement/Cedeno/Corona/Shelton/Balentien)
by Jeff Sullivan on Feb 12, 2009 11:19 AM PST up reply actions
It's just not that bad
Determined, Jonesing Commentor | Proud proprietor of Wyomingroutes.org & Washingtonhighways.org
Seems to make sense
Against righties, Clement can catch and Griffey can DH, and against lefties, Johjima can catch and Clement can DH. Then work a platoon in LF as well.
by Jeff Sullivan on Feb 12, 2009 11:24 AM PST up reply actions
I have no idea why my brain would not allow that to work
Determined, Jonesing Commentor | Proud proprietor of Wyomingroutes.org & Washingtonhighways.org
I see now I had Clement being both the starting catcher and the starting DH
Dumbass
Determined, Jonesing Commentor | Proud proprietor of Wyomingroutes.org & Washingtonhighways.org
Swap Cedeno with Betancourt on that bench and it looks workable to me.
Yesterday's Pants
A blog-thingy about the Mariners and stuff.
by BrettJMiller on Feb 12, 2009 11:40 AM PST up reply actions
That's the best bench we've had in a long bloody time
Determined, Jonesing Commentor | Proud proprietor of Wyomingroutes.org & Washingtonhighways.org
So go out and appease the outraged bloggers by getting Nick Johnson...
Assuming a 5-man bench (and an 11-man pitching staff):
Vs. RHP (not in batting order)
1) Ichiro (RF)
2) Gutz (CF)
3) Branyan/Griffey* (LF)
4) N. Johnson (1B)
5) Lopez (2B)
6) Yuni (SS)
7) Beltre (3B)
8) Griffey/Branyan (DH)
9) Clement ©
Bench: Cedeno, Chavez, Joh, Corona/Shelton/Sweeney, Balentien
(*you know as well as I do that the prima donna isn’t going to primarily DH)
Vs. LHP (not in batting order)
1) Ichiro (RF)
2) Gutz (CF)
3) Wlad (LF)
4) N. Johnson (1B)
5) Lopez (2B)
6) Yuni (SS)
7) Beltre (3B)
8) Griffey** (DH)
9) Joh ©
Bench: Cedeno, Chavez, Clement, Corona/Shelton/Sweeney, Branyan
(**you know as well as I do that the prima donna isn’t going to sit all the time vs. lefties — but put Wlad at DH and Endy Chavez in LF when he does sit)
With Branyan being able to play 3B and LF at least somewhat respectably, that does still give them some options. With Cedeno on board, I suppose they could try to swing a deal to keep Corona stashed in the minors, and keep Shelton or Sweeney. Shelton could be the emergency catcher, too.
This signature space for rent.
by PositivePaul on Feb 12, 2009 12:07 PM PST up reply actions
To elaborate,
I would not want the pop-up twins batting behind the two best OBP threats on the team.
See where he says
“not in batting order”
I'd rather know a little about a lot than a lot about a little
Yeah I'm stupid.
I guess it looked like what I would expect them to do if they had those players last year.
That's incredibly terrible.
Griffey in LF against RHP is literally a replacement-level player. Griffey in LF against LHP is Richie Sexson or Jose Vidro, except worse.
by eponymous_coward on Feb 12, 2009 2:39 PM PST up reply actions
I mean, really, that's Johnny Mac level stupid to keep Chavez on the bench and play Griffey in the OF.
DH against LHP? LF against RHP? Basically, Griffey has NEGATIVE value- DH’ing Junior against LHP is like making Yuni your DH.
by eponymous_coward on Feb 12, 2009 2:43 PM PST up reply actions
Secretly I'm really really excited about this
Determined, Jonesing Commentor | Proud proprietor of Wyomingroutes.org & Washingtonhighways.org
I am not secretly really excited about this
I really hope he doesn’t suck, but it’s going to be sweet to see him put on a Mariners uniform again even if he does kind of suck.
by seattlebruin on Feb 12, 2009 10:17 AM PST up reply actions
I'm willing to let emotion take over here
Griffey isn’t very good, but neither is Wlad or Endy Chavez, and I’d much rather watch Griffey then those two assholes
Determined, Jonesing Commentor | Proud proprietor of Wyomingroutes.org & Washingtonhighways.org
I think I'd enjoy watching Endy Chavez take home runs away from people in the playoffs
by seattlebruin on Feb 12, 2009 10:19 AM PST up reply actions
I need to refresh to confirm it, but I hope my comment wasn't late
by seattlebruin on Feb 12, 2009 10:19 AM PST up reply actions
Even though Chavez is a better player than Griffey at this point
and a far better outfielder, I’d still rather see Griffey.
Even if he sucks watching Griffey patrol the outfield will put a smile on my face.
Determined, Jonesing Commentor | Proud proprietor of Wyomingroutes.org & Washingtonhighways.org
I'd just rather see Griffey take ABs from Chavez than Clement
I have to figure Griffey is going to get a substantial amount of time in LF no matter who is running the team
Determined, Jonesing Commentor | Proud proprietor of Wyomingroutes.org & Washingtonhighways.org
I'm not sure of that
I imagine the rough PT distribution will be 1/4 of each
1/4 of the time (vs Lefties)
C Johjima
DH Clement
LF Chavez
1/4 of the time
C Clement
DH Griffey
LF Chavez
1/4 of the time
C Johjima
DH Griffey
LF Chavez
1/4 of the time
C Johjima
DH Clement
LF Griffey
Determined, Jonesing Commentor | Proud proprietor of Wyomingroutes.org & Washingtonhighways.org
actually that just proves you are right
Determined, Jonesing Commentor | Proud proprietor of Wyomingroutes.org & Washingtonhighways.org
I just don't see Johjima exclusively playing against Lefthanders though
Especially if Clement doesn’t make any strides with his defense
Determined, Jonesing Commentor | Proud proprietor of Wyomingroutes.org & Washingtonhighways.org
Take salary out of the equation and 75/76 > 69 and your dude takes it every time
Determined, Jonesing Commentor | Proud proprietor of Wyomingroutes.org & Washingtonhighways.org
and Bryan LaHair is a ++ CFer
who I have led to a long successful career in many simulations
Determined, Jonesing Commentor | Proud proprietor of Wyomingroutes.org & Washingtonhighways.org
You are missing the point.
I’m a little excited to see him back. Just to be optimistic, maybe this will work out just fine.
by Edgar for Pres on Feb 12, 2009 10:28 AM PST up reply actions
I suppose my favorite part about this
is if Griffey somehow plays well this year we get to bring him back every season for the rest of his career until bottom falls out.
This is a definite problem
Determined, Jonesing Commentor | Proud proprietor of Wyomingroutes.org & Washingtonhighways.org
We were obligated to hold onto Edgar though
Because he was already on the team. We don’t HAVE to bring Griffey back today, we just want to
Determined, Jonesing Commentor | Proud proprietor of Wyomingroutes.org & Washingtonhighways.org
In other words
Bring Griffey back today and that’s awesome, but if you don’t my life doesn’t change.
If we didn’t bring Edgar back after 2003 and he signed with whoever, I would have been totally crushed
Determined, Jonesing Commentor | Proud proprietor of Wyomingroutes.org & Washingtonhighways.org
Welcome Home Griff!
Put up another .272/.379/.841 line vs. RHP like you did last year!
Welcome to Lookout Landing,
we appreciate the use of the reply button in order to facilitate better dialogue.
Seems like
nobody will reply to Ibanez and Griffey having virtually the same SLG% vs. RHP last year.
What point are you trying to make?
Yes, Griffey is useful as the lefty half of a DH platoon. That about covers it.
by Jeff Sullivan on Feb 12, 2009 12:06 PM PST up reply actions
Perhaps if he was on the other side of the platoon
Facing nothing but left handed pitching
I think he's saying the right-handed part of the platoon is easier to find.
by R.J. Anderson on Feb 12, 2009 1:37 PM PST up reply actions
Yep - it's not a platoon opposite Griff
It can be a combination of Johjima, Lopez, Sweeney, Burke, Morse, Tui, Shelton… Endless possibilities depending on the roster flexibility and who makes the club. It’s not llike you’re dedicating two DHs to a platoon here. You’re just feeding Griff 400+ ABs vs RHP.
That does nothing to change that a slightly above average wOBA against RHP, as a DH
doesn’t qualify for much more than “useful” in my book.
Slightly above average....
because every year other than last year was the aberration?
by Malcontent1 on Feb 13, 2009 12:32 AM PST up reply actions
No, but every year other than last year, he was younger than he was last year.
And relevantly, he will be even older this year!
Please look at his 3-year platoon splits as well.
Also: he wasn’t very good in 2006, either. So I don’t buy “the knee injury being healed will magically turn this into 2005, or even 2007”.
He could break out to a 2 WAR year. So could Branyan or Shelton, though.
by eponymous_coward on Feb 13, 2009 1:07 AM PST up reply actions
Also relevent:
The knee injury he had in early April of ‘06. Also, his .282 BABiP against Righties is probably a bit low, though he’s never been at all consistent with his BABiPs going back to the mid-90’s. My guess would be that healthy legs would at least help him get around .300 BABiP, if nothing else.
Wouldn't you agree that given his prior history, the chance that Griffey suffers another leg injury
in 2009 is pretty high? And if so, shouldn’t we account for the possibility that said injury would affect his production, as it has in the past?
He won't be fielding (hopefully)
So the chance is lessened somewhat
by Mariner John on Feb 13, 2009 9:15 PM PST up reply actions
As Mariner John says
He won’t be seeing playing time in the outfield more than once a week, and when he does, we should be well assured that he will be replaced defensively by the 7th or 8th inning. He didn’t get injured in 2007, and in 2008 the knee was about as random an event as is likely to happen, so he’s got two straight seasons without having his legs explode on the way to the batter’s box.
by Malcontent1 on Feb 13, 2009 11:49 PM PST up reply actions
So because his knee injury was "random"
(which is a massively weird argument to make), you are free to ignore it?
And a whopping two straight seasons means he’s going to stay healthy, fur sure, in 2009?
Your arguments are repetitive.
My arguments are repetitive?
Compared to: “He’s an injury risk because he has lot’s of prior injuries and he’s old”? The fact that he hasn’t incurred a serious injury while actually playing over the last 2 years is a positive sign. The fact that his knee injury was the result of banging it against a foot locker and the fact that that particular incident is not likely to reoccur isn’t very weird.
I’m not saying there’s no chance of him getting injured, I’m saying there is a decreased chance of incurring an injury.
And just to let you know, I’ve made the “He’s less likely to get injured DHing” argument a grand total of once.
Correct me if I am wrong, but your argument amounts to this;
Griffey, as a DH against RH pitchers, is likely to put up an OPS somewhere in the neighborhood of .850. I would also assume that you expect him to do so in enough plate appearances for his contribution to be truly meaningful, say somewhere in the neighborhood of 350-400 PA. Correct?
If this is in fact your argument, you must take Griffey’s recent (and not-so-recent) injury history into account. There is a very real chance that injury will prevent Griffey from amassing enough PAs to make a real impact, hitting well enough to make a real impact or some combination of the two. You can’t ignore it and assume he’ll be healthy all season, because there’s valid reason to believe that this will not be the case.
by Aaron Campeau on Feb 14, 2009 1:46 AM PST up reply actions
Not an argument
Just posting numbers from his injured 2008 season
That season happened, though.
So did the ones before it. This is a pattern.
by Aaron Campeau on Feb 14, 2009 2:01 AM PST up reply actions
A player on the DL doesn't hurt the team (at least in this case)
I’d assume if he’s hurt his PA will be cut back more than in the past.
by Edgar for Pres on Feb 14, 2009 4:26 PM PST up reply actions
Aside from the fact that he's getting paid.
by Aaron Campeau on Feb 14, 2009 7:27 PM PST up reply actions
A small amount of money doesn't really matter right now
I’m assuming the mariners payroll budget is still working under the “If you don’t use it, you lose it philosophy.”
by Edgar for Pres on Feb 15, 2009 1:00 PM PST up reply actions
OK, but getting back to Junior's value
DHs as a whole hit .255/.338/.433 last year. (granted, a bad year for DHs)
Griffey hit .272/.379/.462 against righties last year (in a hitter’s park).
He can’t play the field, he can’t run the bases and he can’t hit lefties, but he can hit righties fairly well (but still not to a great degree). This simply isn’t that valuable of a player. “Useful” is about as good as it gets.
Another thing that we need to remember is that Griffey’s one skill — hitting righties — is going to be easily neutralized in late innings. A LOOGY turns our DH into Willie Bloomquist.
So
More than useful than the average DH? Given 400+ ABs
Take a look at this;
DHs with 300+ PA in 2008. Ignore Vlad, Garret Anderson, and the three Royals, as they saw significant playing time in the field. Take a look at those wOBAs.
Now look at Griffey’s projections for 2009:
CHONE: .332
Marcel: .330
Oliver: .354
Bill James: .354
Even the wildly optimistic Bill James and Oliver projections have Griffey as a slightly above average Major League hitter next season. Not DH-hitter. The more (historically) accurate CHONE sees him as a below average hitter next season. Keep in mind also that most of the other players on that list had well over 400 PA at DH.
Griffey isn’t likely to be good, but he’s not likely to be terrible either. He’s likely to be useful. That’s not an insult, it’s the most likely scenario.
by Aaron Campeau on Feb 14, 2009 2:13 AM PST up reply actions
What's the point of that list
Aubrey Huff and Jack Cust are lefties that don’t hit righties very well, Huff having a good year against them. Milton Bradley had a ridiculously lucky .396 BABiP, and otherwise is very similar to Griffey in the always injured-doesn’t hit lefties that well, category. The problem with Marcel, CHONE, and Oliver is that they’re all computer projections that don’t take into account the possibility of a player recovering from injury OR being platooned. Also, Bill James isn’t wildly optimistic, judging from the number of at bats he’s assigning Griffey (412, with 58 walks), it seems he is giving Griffey an 85/15 split instead of the 70/30 split that the computer projections are giving him. Lastly, please give me a link to CHONE, Marcel, Oliver, and James projections from previous seasons, as I have had trouble looking for them myself and would love to be able to verify that CHONE is the best predictor.
The point of that list
was to point out that Con’s assertion that Griffey would be better than the average DH, given the numbers he used himself, was erroneous.
by Aaron Campeau on Feb 14, 2009 2:00 PM PST up reply actions
OK, I didn't quite catch the point the first time
I would still like to know where I can find older projections for the projections systems to verify their accuracy.
Honestly I don't know the answer to that.
I trust CHONE more than I trust the Bill James projections based on what I’ve observed personally over the last few years and the opinions of people that are smarter than me.
by Aaron Campeau on Feb 14, 2009 2:16 PM PST up reply actions
Aubrey Huff and Jack Cust are lefties that don’t hit righties very well
???
by JI on Feb 14, 2009 5:09 PM PST up reply actions
Cust and Huff both hit righties much better than lefties.
Also, Milton Bradley had a LD% over 25, so that BABIP isn’t all that lucky.
That was a typo,
I meant they don’t hit lefties that well. As for bradley, .396 would be 30 points high even if you did LD+12. If you look at xBABiP he should have been .334 (although they say his BABiP was .375).
Yeah, Bradley was definitely lucky to a certain degree.
I just wanted to point out that he was legitimately awesome at the plate, as well.
Assuming he's used perfectly, yes, more useful than the average DH.
But the average DH isn’t really all that valuable. Especially when he can be rendered usless in high-leverage situations by bringing in a lefty.
Assuming opposing managers have a clue, Griffey won’t be facing many righties late in close games, which limits the already small amount of value he gives the Mariners.
By my crude calcuations,
The average DH in 2008 was worth about 0.4 WAR. Four runs.
Taking Griffey’s 2008 numbers only against righties and giving him roughly 400 at-bats in that favorable situation and pulling him out of the outfield, that’s about 1 WAR. And that’s if everything works out as planned.
Guys who can’t play the field and aren’t Edgar Martinez or David Ortiz just aren’t that valuable. I’m not saying Griffey is useless . . . but he’s pretty damn close.
That said, I’ll still smile like an idiot every time he comes to bat. I absolutely love that man.
I thought Ken Griffey Jr. lived in Florida.
by Aaron Campeau on Feb 12, 2009 2:53 PM PST up reply actions
I want to see Griffey play as much as possible
why? If he plays a whole lot it means he’s A. at least kind of effective and B. not hurt.
Also, I just love Griffey.
I think Dave put it the best when he summarized next week's storylines:
The Kid returns an adult: Griffey is older, wiser
More than just a sentimental move: Griffey to provide veteran left-handed power in the middle of the lineup
Seattle welcomes a grown up Junior
Return of the Prodigal Son: a long journey brings the Kid back to his roots
Once the carefree Kid, Griffey returns to mentor a young Mariner team
Healthy and with something to prove, Griffey seeks to rekindle flame
In a sport wracked by steroid scandals, Griffey’s joy is a fan’s last refuge
Junior moves in with his parents, to the house he built
After years of horror, Griffey gives M’s fans something to smile about
Griffey brings back memories of the glory years
Junior looks to contribute in different way
Familiar smile brings light to a dark clubhouse
Hall of Fame career that began here may come to a fitting close
Warm welcome helped convince Griffey to return
"I always hoped to return to Seattle," Griffey says.
Griffey fails physical, deal to return appears dead
by .Taylor on Feb 12, 2009 12:56 PM PST reply actions
I was too.
Especially when the backup trade was even WORSE.
This signature space for rent.
by PositivePaul on Feb 12, 2009 1:40 PM PST up reply actions
God I hated Bavasi's "Plan B..."
(and C and D and E….)
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by PositivePaul on Feb 12, 2009 1:40 PM PST up reply actions
I was happy
but then the replacement trade was worse
by JI on Feb 12, 2009 1:41 PM PST up reply actions
Wait, Vizquel had a chance to return?
When was this?
"Part, fools!
Put up your swords. You know not what you do."
by Fearless Frog on Feb 12, 2009 10:06 PM PST up reply actions
December of 2003
He failed his physical so we signed Aurilia instead.
Not the whole picture...
They were going to trade Guillen for Vizquel, but when Vizquel didn’t pass his physical they backed out of the deal and traded Guillen for garbage and then signed Aurilia. It was right around that time that I started reading/posting to blogs so I remember it “fondly”
This signature space for rent.
by PositivePaul on Feb 12, 2009 11:15 PM PST up reply actions
Ahhhh, yes
I forgot that Omar wasn’t a free agent at the time.
I think the last one would break my poor fragile heart.
Someone pointed this out to me that made sense; we are going to suck either way next season (despite what we all want to believe, rebuilding is going to take time), so might as well suck with Griffey. I don’t care if he’s another in the line of worthless DH’s we’ve since Edgar retired, I’ll be cheering maniacally after every strikeout/groundout.
"Part, fools!
Put up your swords. You know not what you do."
by Fearless Frog on Feb 12, 2009 1:10 PM PST up reply actions
This is my fear, our last memory of Griffey will be of him looking like a giant bag of sand.
Similarly, I was pretty excited the SF signed RJ, but now I don’t know if I want to watch him completely fall apart.
I am no longer in Spokane, but I think I'll keep the name anyway.
I worded that oddly.
I mean, even if he has the worst season of his career, I’m pretty sure many people including myself will still love him and it won’t tarnish his reputation to Seattle fans that much. Rather him failing than someone like Sexson of last season or Johjima.
"Part, fools!
Put up your swords. You know not what you do."
by Fearless Frog on Feb 12, 2009 2:06 PM PST up reply actions
I'm still not sure why watching Griffey fail would make you happy though
I’m not trying to pick on you, I’m just not sure what watching Griffey flail at 86-mph junk twice before striking out looking will do to enhance his reputation among even the most diehard Griffeyites.
Nice Guys Finish Third - Hopelessly lost, but makin' good time.
Heh, I don't mean his likely shortcomings are going to excite me.
But I won’t mind them. At all.
"Part, fools!
Put up your swords. You know not what you do."
by Fearless Frog on Feb 12, 2009 2:12 PM PST up reply actions
This.
It’s GRIFFEY, damn it! I’ll always love him and your stats can’t take that away from me!
"Part, fools!
Put up your swords. You know not what you do."
by Fearless Frog on Feb 12, 2009 2:22 PM PST up reply actions
Personally I find that depressing
and the bar’s already set awfully low after watching him strike out to end last season’s ALDS.
I died a little inside watching that
Nice Guys Finish Third - Hopelessly lost, but makin' good time.
Nostalgic fanboy here.
And I am ecstatic that we’re bringing The Kid (The Old Man?) back where he belongs. I stopped caring about baseball after Lou Piniella left (coinciding with me finishing up the final stages of puberty and turning to football to make me feel more manly), and now that Griffey’s back, I have an excuse to deck out my old school mid-90s memorabilia back when we had that badass navy blue/turquoise color scheme.
"Part, fools!
Put up your swords. You know not what you do."
If Joe Torre -> Dodgers was the worst kept secret in baseball.
What’s this? The worst inevitability in baseball?
Fans are typically idiots.
by The Typical Idiot Fan on Feb 12, 2009 1:43 PM PST reply actions
Well if Jeffie wants it it's a-OK in my book
by Graham MacAree on Feb 12, 2009 1:51 PM PST up reply actions 1 recs
Really cause the only people that I want to have sex with are Felix and Carlson
god what a slut haha ;)
by Robert on Feb 12, 2009 6:27 PM PST up reply actions 2 recs
Makes sense, Junior was Jeffie's idol growing up.
Yesterday's Pants
A blog-thingy about the Mariners and stuff.
by BrettJMiller on Feb 12, 2009 2:41 PM PST up reply actions
Wasn't it Jay who said in another interview
that Griffey probably should be doing much more than DHing?
Actually...
Quite the contrary. At FanFest 2008, Buhner recognized that Griffey would be best served in the DH role, and that his fielding days were over, even if Griffey was too stubborn to admit it.
This signature space for rent.
by PositivePaul on Feb 12, 2009 2:33 PM PST up reply actions
Whoops a doodle.
That’s what I was getting at, “should” should read “shouldn’t”
HAHAHAHAHA
The thought of Griffey hangin’ w/the Buhners at their place (listening to the radio interview) just cracks me up.
On a positive note, I’m sure they could work him into the commercials this year. That wouldn’t suck…
This signature space for rent.
by PositivePaul on Feb 12, 2009 2:49 PM PST up reply actions
The photo caption is great.
Back in 1998, a more slender, smiling Ken Griffey Jr. graced Seattle’s Spring Training.
That makes me worry if he will be out of shape this year.
But I guess players probably naturally grow wider as they get older.
I'm sure...
…Ichiro is probably dying a little bit inside, too.
This article hints at it, and I don’t have time to find anything more clear, but Ichiro has said he badly wanted to play with Griffey in Seattle at some point.
This signature space for rent.
by PositivePaul on Feb 12, 2009 2:36 PM PST up reply actions
Thanks for posting that article.
It was a great read from the past.
by appleshampoo on Feb 12, 2009 2:54 PM PST up reply actions
I had forgotten how uncertain everyone was about Ichiro
I'd rather know a little about a lot than a lot about a little
And Corco's down with it too
So any doubts I had are now negated
Determined, Jonesing Commentor | Proud proprietor of Wyomingroutes.org & Washingtonhighways.org
This is going to become a meme if we try hard enough.
I was at Shea for the Felix-Slam!
Personal M's record: 5-4.
by EnglishMariner on Feb 12, 2009 3:08 PM PST up reply actions
identifying something as a meme before it comes one is like giving yourself a nickname
Nice Guys Finish Third - Hopelessly lost, but makin' good time.
That's quite easy to do actually
Determined, Jonesing Commentor | Proud proprietor of Wyomingroutes.org & Washingtonhighways.org
So's killing a hobo
doesn’t mean you should do it.
Nice Guys Finish Third - Hopelessly lost, but makin' good time.
It's fun
When I moved out here I introduced myself as “Jim” to a whole class and now in one of my classes I go by Jim.
It’s hilarious because the whole time you’re sitting there thinking “bahahaha my name’s not Jim! Suckers!”
Determined, Jonesing Commentor | Proud proprietor of Wyomingroutes.org & Washingtonhighways.org
That's not a nickname though
that’s a deception done for a laugh. A nickname’s something like The Bronx Bomber or The Kid or something.
Nice Guys Finish Third - Hopelessly lost, but makin' good time.
Or if your name is Corcoran and you go by Corco
by seattlebruin on Feb 12, 2009 3:22 PM PST up reply actions
That was not by choice
I’ve always much preferred Corky or Corkscrew but Corco has stuck around on the internets
Determined, Jonesing Commentor | Proud proprietor of Wyomingroutes.org & Washingtonhighways.org
This last question is the most worrisome for me. In left field he really doesn’t block anyone (young player).
Suck it Wlad.
by Jeff Sullivan on Feb 12, 2009 1:58 PM PST up reply actions
He might not block anyone
But he also won’t catch anything
I'd rather know a little about a lot than a lot about a little
Woooooooo
Think of the GIFs!
Griff in LF might actually make us pine for Raul’s defense.
They wouldn't let that happen would they?
WOULD THEY?
by JI on Feb 12, 2009 2:12 PM PST up reply actions
Ken Griffey Jr
Is “The Natural”?
I had that poster as a kid
I'd rather know a little about a lot than a lot about a little
"Why People Shouldn't Think With Their Heart"
by Matthew on Feb 12, 2009 2:15 PM PST up reply actions 3 recs
Is that better or worse
Than pumping blood with my brain?
I'd rather know a little about a lot than a lot about a little
"This blog will be a little different from my previous one in that there will be a comment section."
Big mistake there Shannon…
by appleshampoo on Feb 12, 2009 2:25 PM PST up reply actions
The big "remains to be seen" thing for me
is that when this does come down, will the Griffey that shows up to sate the Bring Back Griffey Brigade be a more open, friendly Griffey with the press, or will he still be the paranoid, thin-skinned, don’t-want-to-talk-to-reporters-I-don’t-trust Griffey he was when he left?
Nice Guys Finish Third - Hopelessly lost, but makin' good time.
The biggest thing that worries me is...
If we’re “accidental” contenders or even a .500 team people are going to say it’s because of Griffey.
BOOYA! You got Slurved!
He'd likely be contributing...
…so WTF is wrong with giving him credit for helping?
Seriously?
If he’s putting up a .230/.240/.250 line and they’re doing this in spite of that, then, yeah, by all means pile on.
But having Griffey on this team actually could help them, even if he’s not a >0 WAR player. He could both hurt and help the clubhouse — I am not kidding when I say that Ichiro will probably benefit the most from this move. It’ll simultaneously relieve him of some pressure to be the clubhouse leader and challenge him to earn some of that spotlight back (which Ichiro really thrives on).
This signature space for rent.
by PositivePaul on Feb 12, 2009 3:27 PM PST up reply actions
The problem as I see it
is that the media would view Griffey as the sole reason for the team turning things around so quickly. No one will give GMZ credit for massively overhauling the defense and picking up contributors like Branyan. They’ll give a majority of the credit to one of the least talented players on the roster.
But does it matter who gets the credit in the media if the end result works, and GMZ is making good decisions?
Really, who cares what the fans and media think is the reason for the 2009 World Champion Mariners, if Griffey getting undue credit doesn’t change how GMZ evaluates him?
by eponymous_coward on Feb 12, 2009 3:35 PM PST up reply actions
When the majority of the fanbase thinks the worng things and the writers agree with them it can cause serious problems.
by Aaron Campeau on Feb 12, 2009 3:38 PM PST up reply actions 1 recs
Plus, myabe Griffey decides to hang 'em up before he completely craps out
see: Favre, Brett and Elway, John
by eponymous_coward on Feb 12, 2009 4:06 PM PST up reply actions
oooooops too late
It could be argued that Griffey completely crapped out last season.
Nice Guys Finish Third - Hopelessly lost, but makin' good time.
DePodesta did let Beltre walk
Though that may have been a financing problem…
Though they did later sign JD Drew to a very similar contract to what Beltre got.
Personally I don't care
I’m just responding to what Slurvey and Paul brought up.
Because that would be the worst kind of results-based analysis
The M’s were horrid in 2008.
They bring in Griffey.
The M’s contend in 2009.
There’s almost no way that if this scenario happens that it would be entirely because of Griffey, but that won’t be what the media reports and what the fans then think. And that sets back what the M’s are trying to do, because then when Griffey goes away in 2010 and the M’s start slow, everyone will say BRING BACK GRIFFEY all over again.
Nice Guys Finish Third - Hopelessly lost, but makin' good time.
Also I see it if the M's are not doing well
The media will blame everybody but Griffey. The media will be all over Griffey when he signs and we’ll be hearing a lot of Griffey stories and If Branyan hits 20 HR and Griffey hits 19 they’ll make it so Griffey will look better still because his HR are worth more somehow.
BOOYA! You got Slurved!
Playing a 0 WAR player hurts this team, though
Shelton’s not a < 0 WAR player- yes, even though he’s a righty, he could help the team getting a lot of DH ABs and spelling Branyan. Wlad probably isn’t either. Even Princess Willie was a > 0 WAR player (barely).
Going into the “well, he could improvechemistry” arguments goes well into the Bavasi-era mode of making player personnel decisions based on abstractions nobody has a good handle on, I think,
by eponymous_coward on Feb 12, 2009 3:33 PM PST up reply actions
I don't disagree...
I’m just saying that there are unique cases where a player actually DOES help chemistry — clearly accompanied by reasonable amounts of talent — and that has some value. This is one of those cases.
Certainly winning is the most decisive factor in building chemistry, I get that. But this team before Griffey didn’t have the talent to be considered a legitimate contender.
Besides – while we in the blogs accept the intricacies, importance and value of overhauling the OF defense, (as well as the other small-but-mighty moves he made) were the team successful w/o acquiring Griffey, I don’t think even then Zduriencik’s job in this area would be widely credited. They’d find something else like Yuni’s glove or Lopez’s non-second-half collapse to harp about.
This signature space for rent.
by PositivePaul on Feb 12, 2009 4:03 PM PST up reply actions
Because real baseball players are more like the idiots in the blogosphere than the statheads?
This signature space for rent.
by PositivePaul on Feb 12, 2009 4:12 PM PST up reply actions
Isn't clubhouse chemsitry more about how well the players get along?
Sure, it might not matter during Spring Training or what have you, but once the grind sets in, that’s what more important rather than who you are, from my experiences.
The 2004 Mariners got along great.
Dan Wilson, Edgar, Boone, Moyer… and as we all know, they were terrible. This is why I talked about “abstractions nobody has a good handle on”. Chemistry is so much of a propter hoc thing (You had a great record! You must have had awesome chemistry!) that I think speculating what works and what doesn’t just doesn’t get us anywhere, beyond the blatantly obvious (a team of axe murderers might not have great chemistry).
by eponymous_coward on Feb 12, 2009 4:17 PM PST up reply actions
Don't take my word for it...
“Take the words "clubhouse cancer” out of your vocabulary when talking about Griffey. The popular accusation is and always has been simply untrue. I covered Jr. for his last year and a half here and never saw it. Furthermore, every former teammate of his I have talked to, to a man agrees that he was not a problem, in fact most have said he was the best teammate they have ever played with."
If the players he’ll be playing with are legitimately excited to be playing with him, it certainly can help the chemistry in that clubhouse when the grind sets in. They have someone to turn to and someone to provide that leadership enough to take the edge off. Someone they respect.
This signature space for rent.
by PositivePaul on Feb 12, 2009 4:20 PM PST up reply actions
--shrug--
I still think banking on anyone to provide chemistry is rash.
And like I said...
even when Griffey was at his peak from 1992-1999, the Mariners basically pencil out to a .500 team, maybe a handful of games over. If Griffey IS an awesome teammate, all this demonstrates is “awesome teammate” does not turn you into the Yankees or Braves.
by eponymous_coward on Feb 12, 2009 4:28 PM PST up reply actions
And really who cares about chemistry...
Chicken/egg, etc…
And, yeah, if he sucks and they’re still contending (and he’s taking PT away from better talent), like I said in my post — by all means pile on the loathing.
But if they ARE contending and he’s putting up decent numbers – no need to discredit him for contributing. Even if it’s more because Washburn, Morrow, and Silva all have ERAs below 3.5 thanks to stellar OF defense…
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by PositivePaul on Feb 12, 2009 4:42 PM PST up reply actions
I mean if we want to use him properly
he’s going to have to agree to a lot of things that may step on his ego.
by JI on Feb 12, 2009 7:58 PM PST up reply actions
Wait.
Griffey PLAYED on Mariner teams in 1998 and 1999 that basically weren’t very good, and he was still a great player then, far better than he is now.
If he isn’t pulling the guys over the finish line then, or in Cincinnati during the years he wasn’t a cripple on the DL, or even in Chicago in the ALDS, why is that going to happen now?
Basically, Griffey as a player is ~Branyan or Shelton (1-1.5 WAR as a DH). You have to come up with some pretty strong intangibles to consider that his contribution something that pushes the M’s to “legitimate contender”.
by eponymous_coward on Feb 12, 2009 4:11 PM PST up reply actions
I don't think it does push them to "legitimate contender"
I just don’t think it hurts their chances as much as some other people do. If somehow he helps other players play more to their potential, then that might be something intangible. But I wouldn’t go that far.
I’m not saying “WOO HOO WE ARE THE CHAMPIONS” with this move. I’m not. I’m just saying it MIGHT NOT hurt the team as much as some people think it does.
This signature space for rent.
by PositivePaul on Feb 12, 2009 4:16 PM PST up reply actions
And I accept that my acceptance of Griffey is completely irrational.
And not popular around these parts.
This signature space for rent.
by PositivePaul on Feb 12, 2009 4:24 PM PST up reply actions
I think there might be a silent majority who would agree with you.
I think “chemistry” might be the wrong word, though. “Excitability” might be better. Griffey is going to have a psychological accountability effect on the clubhouse. He is an icon in baseball. We are already seeing it work with the anticipation these guys are having to be able to play around Griffey, the player who they grew up idolizing.
Basically, Griffey is like a war general that everyone admires and listens to. Because of this, they are more motivated and focused on accomplishing their goal. With some of the relaxed attitude Ichiro has mentioned going on in the clubhouse, having the presence of Griffey around will keep players more accountable. It’s not a measurable effect, but there will be players who will want to impress their boyhood idol. Whether the added pressure improves their performance or hurts it is another question, but the added focus will be there.
I, too, have an irrational love for Griffey and will only see the positives in his coming back to Seattle. I just want him to DH and play the OF on a seldom basis.
Basically, when it comes to chemistry...
… unless it’s like someone who is REALLY obviously the kind of guy who ticks teammates off or just gives teams headaches in the media, or is a saint, I tend to think it’s like baseball managers- there are extreme examples at either end, but in most cases, meh- so you’re better off selecting for talent, not trying to chase after “chemistry”.
by eponymous_coward on Feb 12, 2009 4:25 PM PST up reply actions
Intangibles:
Before Griffey
Brian Anderson .230/.267/.424, 4.7% BB, 23.6% K
Paul Konerko .214/.314/.349, 11.4% BB, 17% K
Alexei Ramirez .309/.330/.471, 3.1% BB, 12.9% K
Carlos Quentin .283/.380/.555, 10.8% BB, 13.8% K
Orlando Cabrera .267/.324/.351, 8.2% BB, 9.8% K
After Griffey
Brian Anderson .238/.289/.476, 6.7% BB, 22% K
Paul Konerko .294/.405/.622, 15% BB, 12.7% K
Alexei Ramirez .262/.299/.480, 4.2% BB, 10.7% K
Carlos Quentin .308/.447/.637, 14.9% BB, 14.9% K
Orlando Cabrera .311/.354/.410, 6.6% BB, 9.5% K
It’s not luck or small sample size, it’s intangibles!
Holy crap let's sign 3 Griffeys
Determined, Jonesing Commentor | Proud proprietor of Wyomingroutes.org & Washingtonhighways.org
So our equivalent to those players are...
Franklin Gutierrez
Jeff Clement
Jose Lopez
Endy Chavez
and Yuni Betancourt
….
Make it happen Griffey.
I think Russell Branyan
Is more similar to Paul Konerko, I would LOVE to see Endy Chavez morph into Carlos Quentin though.
This isn't official yet? Come on Z, get this over with already.
You can't hide from the omnipresent eye.
Look, it's this year's version of the Bedard trade!
by eponymous_coward on Feb 12, 2009 4:22 PM PST up reply actions
You're telling me
Just like last year, I’ve been logging onto USSM and LL several times a day from work for the past month, checking to see if a deal has happened yet.
We're not get raped up the butthol with this move
by JI on Feb 12, 2009 7:59 PM PST up reply actions
I mean the part where we want to kill ourselves just to not hear about this any more.
though personally, I think we’re going to flip Griffey for Derek Lillibridge.
by eponymous_coward on Feb 13, 2009 1:13 AM PST up reply actions
I hate Erika
So much
"Part, fools!
Put up your swords. You know not what you do."
by Fearless Frog on Feb 12, 2009 10:13 PM PST up reply actions
Just so you know,
jokes about Erik Bedard being a woman are not viewed in great esteem here except in the most extreme ironic sense.
I assume you are new.
So I will explain how we feel about Eric* Bedard here, without being a jerk. So we were initially very pissed off about the trade because we traded a starting CF, our set up guy/Left-handed one out guy, and three top pitching prospects for one pitcher. But then we commended Bedard for pulling himself out of the game without injuring himself further and putting up bad results. In comparison, Miguel Batista tried to tough out his injury, and continued to get shelled. So in general, it is better that Bedard to let his trainer know he was hurt so he wouldn’t further injure himself (even though it seemed like he was Mr. Glass last season) and put up terrible results, rather than hurt the team by keeping himself in the game. Same goes for not going beyond 100 pitches, as you could look up the numbers for an innings eater like Jarrod Washburn, for example, and see they usually don’t have much success.
Dually noted.
I’m just pissed because I was fawning over Adam Jones, and seeing George Sherrill in the All-Star game was an additional kick in the balls.
"Part, fools!
Put up your swords. You know not what you do."
by Fearless Frog on Feb 13, 2009 11:38 AM PST up reply actions
Duly*
"Part, fools!
Put up your swords. You know not what you do."
by Fearless Frog on Feb 13, 2009 11:38 AM PST up reply actions
Apparently golfing's more important to him than returning to the team
you were drafted by and played over half your your career for, eh Ken? Wheeeeee!
Scanning my RSS
I can across this and let out a yelp at the 2 years part. Luckily, I see no word anywhere that this is a two year deal coming.
And apparently Griffey will be wearing the fans during those to years.
Congrats to you Griff, may your final tenure in Seattle be injury free, full of homeruns, and surrounded by fans who adorn you. You deserve it.
That egotistical bastard.
It’s not that cold, Junior.
What are you talking about human flesh is far superior to Gortex
I am no longer in Spokane, but I think I'll keep the name anyway.
On the MLB.com site it says
“Griffey and the Mariners are nearing agreement on a one-year contract.” I am not sure even Bavasi would have signed Griffey for more than one year, putting joking aside.
He's a professional. He'll come off wonderfully in the press conference
Then Griffey joins the team and one of two things happens:
a) Griffey performs well. Chuck and Howie are vindicated for pushing for Griffey to return to the team. They continue to meddle in GMZ’s affairs.
b) Griffey bombs and the media discusses what a poor decision of Z’s it was to bring him back.
I’m holding out hope that all turns out well, but right now this has the makings of another classic “Let’s Screw Katal” moment.
I would've gone in a different direction with the pic
by OlSalty on Feb 12, 2009 6:55 PM PST reply actions 2 recs
I appreciate your pointing that out Robert. In my future endeavors you can rest assured I will strive for greater accuracy.
:)
by Aaron Campeau on Feb 12, 2009 7:31 PM PST up reply actions
Just because you don't agree with the team's moves doesn't mean you have to make them out as minor league organization.
It’s that type of negativity that makes people ignore us.
by Robert on Feb 12, 2009 7:32 PM PST up reply actions 3 recs
You ended your comment earlier in the subthread with a comma.
The Mariners don’t use abbreviations on their uniforms,.
Determined, Jonesing Commentor | Proud proprietor of Wyomingroutes.org & Washingtonhighways.org
What happens if he if he's mediocre but not disastrous and doesn't want to retire after this season?
I look forward to rooting for Griffey in person again.
I hope he can be good enough to avoid the ire of his modern day detractors, but I wont hold my breath.
That's just media speak till shit actually goes down
Yesterday's Pants
A blog-thingy about the Mariners and stuff.
by BrettJMiller on Feb 12, 2009 9:35 PM PST up reply actions
I know that
I’m just getting tired of every flipping media outlet in the greater Pacific Northwest region reporting this story every thirty seconds.
As I said, this is v 2.0 of the Bedard trade.
Of course, it could be worse: we could be about to trade Adam Jones again.
by eponymous_coward on Feb 13, 2009 1:19 AM PST up reply actions
translation: I don't know anything about it because I'm busy playing golf. My agent is handling it.
everyone with a brain: well, duh.
So if a deal is going to be made, it will be announced after the weekend.
There is no way they announce a deal and then have to wait 3 days until he is available for a physical. Deals are usually made and the player is there the next day to get the physical to finalize the contract as soon as possible.
I could be wrong, but I do not seeing it happen while Griffey is playing in this tournament. The media would have a field day with him. Think if he gave all these great quotes about being excited to return to Seattle only to fail the physical 2-3 days later.
In other words, it’s likely going to be Monday, at the earliest, that this thing ends.
I wouldn't doubt if we saw a "Griffey, Mariners agree to terms" and the numbers of the agreement pending a physical come out.
Probably no official announcement till Monday, but I suspect we’ll know the details by then.
Yesterday's Pants
A blog-thingy about the Mariners and stuff.
by BrettJMiller on Feb 13, 2009 2:36 AM PST up reply actions
Gosh. I wish I got paid for spouting idiocies.
"… about a month ago, they made up their minds they were going for a veteran bat, Abreu, Anderson, Dunn, Griffey - in a lot of ways they are the same guys … on their last legs, so why not go for the one who also brings you emotion and something more … "-Softy
hmm. speaking of idiocies.
apparently I keyed a little something extra into that line.
"… about a month ago, they made up their minds they were going for a veteran bat, Abreu, Anderson, Dunn, Griffey – in a lot of ways they are the same guys … on their last legs, so why not go for the one who also brings you emotion and something more … "
The only man employed at KJR that deserves air time is Dave Grosby
and he doesn’t even have his own damn show.
According to ESPN...
The Braves are making a late push for his services. This saga has gotten strange.
"Part, fools!
Put up your swords. You know not what you do."
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