Daily? Rumor Open Thread III
by Poochie on Dec 9, 2009 10:24 AM PST
1068 comments
Byrd, Cameron on similar paths? — 12:00 p.m.
The markets for free agents Marlon Byrd and Mike Cameron continue running parallel to one another.
One major league source pointed out Wednesday morning that many of the same teams are interested in both players: The Braves, Angels, Cubs, Yankees, Mariners, Mets and Giants have checked on each of them.
Byrd and Cameron entered the marketplace as center fielders but have drawn interest from teams seeking help in the corners, the source said.
Byrd, 32, has the advantage of being younger than Cameron, who will play at 37 next year.
The Cardinals also view Byrd as one fallback option if they fail to re-sign left fielder Matt Holliday.
The Mariners, meanwhile, believe Cameron would be an ideal fit for the expansive left field at Safeco Field, but he hasn't played anywhere other than center since the 2005 season. -- Jon Paul Morosi
Source: Harden would sign 1-year deal — 1:34 p.m.
Rich Harden is drawing interest from a number of teams. On Wednesday afternoon, one source explained why: He is comfortable signing a one-year contract that would give him the opportunity to show that he's healthy before reentering the market next winter.
Much of the interest in Harden has come from the American League, the source said, with the Mariners, Yankees and Red Sox being the most serious contenders.
The Angels are not involved, the source indicated.
A one-year contract for the 28-year-old right-hander would assuredly include a large incentive package. The base salary itself should fall within the range established by other recent starter signings.
Harden's 2009 season was good but not great: 9-9 with a 4.09 ERA in 26 starts for the Cubs. But he has shown that he can dominate AL lineups when healthy, which should work in his favor during negotiations.
It could be argued that his season was at least as impressive as Brad Penny's, and Penny signed a one-year, $7.5 million with the Cardinals.
But Harden might have difficulty topping the roughly $12 million that Andy Pettitte will receive on his one-year deal with the Yankees; Pettitte had the better overall season (and October success) while pitching in the more offensive league. -- Jon Paul Morosi
via FoxSports
Have at it baby birds
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I thought Carlos Guillen Hated Seattle?
Also where would he play?
Saw this tid bit from stone
Hank Blalock, who could fill their first base/DH hole and has the Don Wakamatsu stamp of approval from his coaching days in Texa
I thought Blalock was terrible?
I imagine Giullen would be a bench player (assuming he assumed Silva's place on the payroll)
And he would bat right handed when we needed a right handed batter, play 1st when Branyan can’t, and play thrid when someone who plays OF/2B needs a day off.
I think you're underrating how good Guillen is.
Just 3-4-5ing his wOBAs gives .347, and his BABIP tanked last year with no change in LD%
Well you're not just dumping Silva, you're also getting a good player in Guillen while leaving your financial situation essentially the same.
The hole just becomes 2B instead of 1B.
by BrettJMiller on Dec 9, 2009 10:36 AM PST up reply actions
Guillen has been pretty banged up of late and is 34.
Sure, he’s probably a better hitter but it’s also easier to find a 1B than a 2B.
He's also a switch hitter with positional flexibility
the roster that’s being assembled here reminds me so much of Anaheim’s its a little scary.
De Gutibus non disputandum est
by Bearskin Rugburn on Dec 9, 2009 10:42 AM PST up reply actions
Which isnt a hole exactly with Figgins/Hall/Hannahan and the FA market being swamped with 2B/3B types
De Gutibus non disputandum est
by Bearskin Rugburn on Dec 9, 2009 10:41 AM PST up reply actions
I would do that trade, sign Beltre, sign Harden, and sign Branyan.
I think that would be an amazing offseason. Plus the money should work.
Wouldn't Cameron in left field be a much better value than Branyan?
I think he projects to be as valuable as Beltre, but he’d probably get 4-5 million less.
Swap Branyan and Nick Johnson
And that’s what I’d do.
I’m too concerned about Branyan’s back, and it sounds like even the M’s are too…
SHOW FiFi THE MONEY!!!!
by PositivePaul on Dec 9, 2009 10:44 AM PST up reply actions
I'd want something else back from LAD
Prospect in the 5-10 range would be neat. Lindblom? Lambo? Dejesus?
Hence my rec of Sherrill->Seattle
He’s probably due around ~3-4 million. That balances it out for everyone, really.
SHOW FiFi THE MONEY!!!!
by PositivePaul on Dec 9, 2009 10:45 AM PST up reply actions
I can imagine us using that much money on a LH specialist
I wouldn’t be surprised if we flipped Sherrill
by Poochie on Dec 9, 2009 10:46 AM PST up reply actions 1 recs
Right but not being a 'good' everyday player does not make you a bench player
He could make up Lopez’s production, I suspect
No, I don't think you did specifically.
But I am sure it was you were thinking when you said “he would bat right handed when we needed a right handed batter.”
Guillen could bat right-handed in LF or at 1B if need be to give other guys "a day off."
In context you were looking at Guillen as a bench bat who could fill in at positions to give guys a day off. Usually players at DH don’t need a day off unless they have a huge platoon split.
Uh, I think you are taking this way too seriously.
You’re assuming things that you may have thought but didn’t specifically say and telling me that I should have understood what you were thinking, even though it wasn’t in context of what you wrote.
Tell me how to read your mind and I will try to do it.
Good dogs go to dog heaven.
Bad dogs, like Hitler’s dog, Nixon’s dog, and the Lassie that mauled Timmy, all go to hell.
Yes, because writing "DH" would be the longhand version of "he would bat right handed when we needed a right handed batter."
And again, it is about context. You were envisioning Guillen as a bench bat who would be able to play the field to give other guys a day off. Like I said before, usually players at DH don’t need a day off unless they have a huge platoon split. If a player is part of a platoon at DH, they are not exclusively a bench bat, which you envisioned Guillen to be.
Write more clearly and maybe the “smart” audience will be able to understand what you are trying to say.
If he can handle second, then yes, he would be very good
He hasn’t played second for a very long time, and his stints at third weren’t the greatest (although yes, 3rd and 2nd do have their differences), so right now I’m not assuming he can easily do so.
Because he could be league averagey at first base.
It wouldn’t be that hard for him to be a 1.5-2 WAR player
That's where I would peg him, but we can more or less get that internally
So I don’t see the point of playing him there regularly
Obviously.
What I’m saying, unless I am misunderstanding this, is that Guillen would more or less assume Silva’s spot on the payroll, so that really would change the amount of money we have to go after talent with.
I would love for this trade to go down, obviously, but I don’t see why we would use Guillen as an everyday player at first unless we got something super awesome somewhere else because he doesn’t profile as being a very good firstbaseman.
It would be maximing Guillen's value
If you’re paying a guy and he can be average at a position, might as well use him there and worry about signings elsewhere.
I don't think he hates Seattle.
He was traded mainly because Lincoln and/or Armstrong were sick of him IIRC.
by Mariner John on Dec 9, 2009 10:36 AM PST up reply actions
But they're still here.
And I seem to remember him telling Freddy that he was so glad that he got out of there when Freddy was traded.
by Scruffy Lefty on Dec 9, 2009 10:38 AM PST up reply actions
I recall Guillen saying some pretty nasty things about the Mariners after he was traded to Detroit.
That said, I can’t blame him. Obviously too, the team now is entirely different from the team back then.
Except for Chuck and Armstrong.
Who I believe he had distaste for.
by Scruffy Lefty on Dec 9, 2009 1:45 PM PST up reply actions
Haha
Please sign Blalock and his .270 OBP!
"I was going to say, 'You’re gay for Elvis.' But then I realized that I, too, am gay for Elvis." ~Adam J. Morris.
by Kinslerhomer on Dec 9, 2009 10:46 AM PST up reply actions
Why...
would the Dodgers want Silva? Seems like a pipe dream to me.
by Dave Clapper on Dec 9, 2009 11:55 AM PST up reply actions
The idea is to make it Silva plus
and they’d be into it because it allows them to lose Pierre.
De Gutibus non disputandum est
by Bearskin Rugburn on Dec 9, 2009 1:12 PM PST up reply actions
Yeah, the problem is still this though
The Dodgers want a reliable pitcher in exchange for Pierre.
Silva isn’t a reliable pitcher in any sense of the word and I’m sure they realize that.
Yeah well
it was just some blogger’s pipe dream anyway.
De Gutibus non disputandum est
by Bearskin Rugburn on Dec 9, 2009 1:37 PM PST up reply actions
But...
Silva costs more than Pierre. And throw in another player (Dave suggests Lopez), it becomes even more of a disparity. Dave also suggests evening out the dollars somehow. To even out the difference between Lopez+Silva and Pierre, that adds up to a nice chunk of change:
Pierre: 18.5
Silva: 25.5 (including the 2M buyout for ‘12)
Lopez: 2.3+ (Cot’s isn’t super-clear, so I’ll go with the lowest number for purposes of argument)
Difference is 9.3 million on the low end.
Fangraphs projects Lopez at 2.3 WAR. They don’t have Guillen projected yet, but Dave says 1.5-2.0. Silva’s not projected yet, either, but I think we all pretty much see him at 0 at this point.
So we send 2.3 WAR (and young) + 9.3 million in exchange for 1.5-2.0 WAR (and on the downside) plus… what?
Or substitute in a replacement-level player for Lopez, I suppose, and we have to send 7 million instead (and pick up 1.5-2.0 WAR).
With Lopez in the deal, I can’t make numbers make sense, unless the Dodgers send back a legitimate piece, but why would they do that?
Yeah, they want to shed Pierre’s salary, but to set it up so they even break even financially costs us 7 million plus.
Dave’s analysis always seems spot on to me, but this looks way off.
But again...
No matter how Dombrowski tries to spin it, they’re trying to shed payroll, too. How much $ are they going to be willing to throw in?
Well, they -would- be shedding payroll
Pierre makes like $9M less than Guillen over the next two years.
But again again...
How much of that do the Tigers have to throw in if the M’s aren’t throwing it in?
I don't know if the Yanks have the pitching depth any more to take on a risk like him
having just dealt Kennedy. He makes a ton of sense in Seattle because we’ve got so many 4/5 types ready to step in if need be.
De Gutibus non disputandum est
by Bearskin Rugburn on Dec 9, 2009 10:59 AM PST up reply actions
Sure
but they’re trying to cut payroll a little this season and are already at 200M or so. Besides which every dollar they spend at this point is subject to luxury tax… I’m not saying they won’t do it, just that they’ve already spent a ton on their rotation with Sabathia Burnett and Pettitte and have little depth for the 4/5 slots. Signing another guy for about 10M when he can’t be counted on to last the season would be difficult to justify, especially with safer options out there.
De Gutibus non disputandum est
by Bearskin Rugburn on Dec 9, 2009 11:25 AM PST up reply actions
Holy balls
looking at Cot’s… Austin Jackson got a .8M signing bonus as an 8th rounder.
De Gutibus non disputandum est
by Bearskin Rugburn on Dec 9, 2009 11:28 AM PST up reply actions
Are there any picthers with similar career paths to Harden (injured alot, never had surgery, filthy whenever he's on the mound)?
This is more idle curiosity than seeking anything predictive, obviously.
Cameron's latest tweet:
“The Mariners have to lead the league in interview/transaction ratio. RT @TheRealMariners: Wak with the gang from MLB Network”
This made me laugh.
Is that the light at the end of the tunnel, or the headlights of an oncoming train?
Millwood probably going to O's for bad reliever
Can’t imagine how they could make this work without paying some of his salary. I hope this is just to balance the books for them, because I’d hate to have the Rangers now looking at Harden as well… Nevertheless, way to go Daniels.
De Gutibus non disputandum est
by Bearskin Rugburn on Dec 9, 2009 11:43 AM PST reply actions
From everything I've seen the Rangers are more interested in Sheets than Harden.
by drblacknwhite on Dec 9, 2009 11:48 AM PST up reply actions
Good.
But I’ve also been hearing that their finances are a mess, so I don’t even know if shedding 12M in salary will allow them to make any further moves or makes them merely solvent or the year.
De Gutibus non disputandum est
by Bearskin Rugburn on Dec 9, 2009 11:51 AM PST up reply actions
Rangers pay 3M of Millwood's 12
De Gutibus non disputandum est
by Bearskin Rugburn on Dec 9, 2009 12:12 PM PST up reply actions
So the Rockies hate Eric Young Jr
Seems like a good trade candidate to me. Maybe Lopez+ would do it.
by lailaihei on Dec 9, 2009 11:52 AM PST via mobile reply actions
Why trade him to the Rockies if he doesn't fill a need?
by Mariner John on Dec 9, 2009 12:10 PM PST up reply actions
Maybe a 3-way deal?
Eric Young Jr is awesome, young, and could be our third Ichiro. It shouldn’t take too much to get him as there are rumors about them extending Barmes, interested in Jose Lopez, etc…
by lailaihei on Dec 9, 2009 12:18 PM PST via mobile up reply actions
Where would Lopez play?
It would have to be a three way if they are extending Barmes. Helton’s still around for another two years. Their infield is pretty much full of better or equal options to Lopez.
by Mariner John on Dec 9, 2009 12:23 PM PST up reply actions
I saw the same thing.
But I can’t remember where.
by Scruffy Lefty on Dec 9, 2009 1:47 PM PST up reply actions
This isn't really evidence.
I’ve heard the Mets and/or Rockies might have interest
The Brewers at least are busy today.
First Wolf, now LaTroy Hawkins for 2 years, $7.5 million according to Stark.
Seems that the market is overpaying for relief pitching.
by BrettJMiller on Dec 9, 2009 12:11 PM PST up reply actions
" Hearing Rangers will pay $3M of Millwood's $12M salary in deal with O's."
ESPN Twitter, URGHHHH, it’s like a reverse Bedard deal.
Fuck you, Baltimore.
A little more on the Felix situation
This is important. Pucino revealed that the two sides did have discussions about a long term deal two years ago, but those decisions obviously did not go anywhere. He insists there were no hard feelings from Felix about not being able to get a deal done then. He then stressed that Felix could not be happier with his experience with the team last season. He enjoyed the clubhouse immensely and developed excellent relationships with both Don Wakamatsu and Rick Adair.
Slow newsday, but Baker just updated his twitter.
“Scott Boras says five or six teams in on Beltre, Sea being one”
Nothing we don’t already know, but it’s the closest thing we’ve had to news in awhile.
And now one from Stone too.
“Mike Scioscia says that Jason Bay isn’t a high priority for the Angels.”
by BrettJMiller on Dec 9, 2009 12:41 PM PST up reply actions
I'm starting to feel bad for Bay
every GM is tripping over himself to be the first to say that they don’t really want Bay on their team that much.
De Gutibus non disputandum est
by Bearskin Rugburn on Dec 9, 2009 12:48 PM PST up reply actions
Hindsight is always 4/60
De Gutibus non disputandum est
by Bearskin Rugburn on Dec 9, 2009 1:10 PM PST up reply actions 2 recs
Now ESPN Twitter is saying "nothing close for Red Sox, Bay."
So much for testing the market, I guess.
Is that the light at the end of the tunnel, or the headlights of an oncoming train?
Rosenthal just updated his Twitter...
Says Giants and Mariners are still in on Nick Johnson, neither one is giving him the two years he wants, though.
One year with an option and playing-time incentives should be enough to get it done, I would think.
Is that the light at the end of the tunnel, or the headlights of an oncoming train?
Not if Nick Johnson wants security.
Playing time incentives can be manipulated by the Mariners and don’t offer much security with his injury history.
I wouldn't have a problem giving him two years...
It’s sort of a given that he’s going to miss playing time due to minor injuries, picking him up for two years just spreads out that risk a bit more. As long as he’s willing to discount his rate a bit for that second year, I don’t have a problem.
Except those old M's guys are actually good. Jack Z is the reverse-Dayton Moore.
Is that the light at the end of the tunnel, or the headlights of an oncoming train?
HEY LOOK SOMETHING HAPPENED
“From Buster: Sources say that Rich Harden is on the verge of an agreement. It was not immediately known which team signed him, but he has been heavily involved in negotiations with the Mariners. "
Is that the light at the end of the tunnel, or the headlights of an oncoming train?
Christ today has bene worse than yesterday
the big deal story has been that the Marlins are about to trade a reliever. FUCK.
But a Harden signing would be nice.
De Gutibus non disputandum est
by Bearskin Rugburn on Dec 9, 2009 1:49 PM PST up reply actions
I would go NUTS every Harden day. He will be SO much fun to watch.
The man has lead the majors (among starting pitchers) in swinging strike % the two years. He had 15.1% last year – next highest was Javier Vazquez at 12.4. INSANE.
Where would that leave us?
Felix, Harden, RRS?, Snell?, Vargas/Morrow/French/Fister/Etc… Still not quite a net strength.
De Gutibus non disputandum est
by Bearskin Rugburn on Dec 9, 2009 2:02 PM PST up reply actions
I expect that Z will do everything possible to land a #2.
That’s, I guess, why we keep hearing these “they’re trying to move Lopez” rumors. Even with the tight ship the M’s front office run, the word will get out if they’re shopping Lopez because of the other teams.
Wouldn't Harden be that #2?
De Gutibus non disputandum est
by Bearskin Rugburn on Dec 9, 2009 2:06 PM PST up reply actions
Dave Cameron Tweeted that he likes the chances it's the Mariners that Harden is signing with.
#d_a_cameron Olney says Harden about to sign – odds are good that it’s with the Mariners.
I will smash your face into a jelly.
I'm a little surprised
I haven’t heard anything about Sheets or Bedard.
Rangers have been linked to Sheets
but he apparently wants seven figures which he may have to wait a while for.
De Gutibus non disputandum est
by Bearskin Rugburn on Dec 9, 2009 2:02 PM PST up reply actions
8
my bad
De Gutibus non disputandum est
by Bearskin Rugburn on Dec 9, 2009 2:06 PM PST up reply actions
I'm thinking in logs
De Gutibus non disputandum est
by Bearskin Rugburn on Dec 9, 2009 2:07 PM PST up reply actions
I don't think Bedard will sign until he can pitch.
Which won’t be until early-mid next season. If he signs a deal, it won’t pay much and will be the for the express purpose to use the organization’s resources to get back in shape.
Funk blast?
De Gutibus non disputandum est
by Bearskin Rugburn on Dec 9, 2009 2:13 PM PST up reply actions
Morosi updated his twitter 9 minutes ago with this:
“Rich Harden in talks with #Mariners, source says.”
If Olney said Harden was on the verge of signing before that Tweet, and he’s talking with us, could that mean…hm…
x
@craigcalcaterra Word is: Rich Harden deal: Is done @ $7.5 guaranteed for 1 + a club option at $11.5.
"I was going to say, 'You’re gay for Elvis.' But then I realized that I, too, am gay for Elvis." ~Adam J. Morris.
I'm lost on the money.
If that is the M’s how much does that leave Z in the bank for 1B/DH and Beltre?
Racer X. You have to love those amarillo hops.
p.s. fuck you angels
from his blog at NBC sports
Update: Craig’s source is hearing one-year, $7.5 million with an $11.5 million option for 2011. Possibly with the Mariners.
Sources are telling ESPN’s Buster Olney that free agent Rich Harden is on the verge of an agreement with a mystery team.
Speculation had the Rangers being very interested in Harden if they could move Kevin Millwood first, so given the timing, Texas would seem to be a possibility. The Red Sox, Yankees and Mariners are among the other teams considering Harden, who is believed to be willing to accept a one-year deal so that he can attempt to rebuild his value and go back onto the market."
"I was going to say, 'You’re gay for Elvis.' But then I realized that I, too, am gay for Elvis." ~Adam J. Morris.
FUCK THE WORLD!!
FUCK JACK Z! How can the FUCKING RANGERS GET HIM?!?!?
It's entirely possible Harden didn't want to come to Seattle
by pdb on Dec 9, 2009 2:48 PM PST up reply actions
That's the only explaination that fits.
Jack Z is probably tearing his hair out right now over this.
NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
The Hawks should be better.
by Woodinville_12thMan on Dec 9, 2009 2:18 PM PST up reply actions
That's what I don't get. HARDEN IS THE NEW AROD!!
I fucking hate you Mariners
WHY THE FUCK WOULD HE CHOOSE THE RANGERS OVER US
My Mariners blog - SodoMojo, Twitter Feed, Fuck the fucking Angels!
And it sounds official
“Breaking: Rich Harden to Texas. One year, $7.5 million with an $11.5 million option.”
GOD FUCKING DAMNINT FUCK I HAD MY HOPES UP
"Breaking: Rich Harden"
I fucking hate you Mariners
by kentroyals5 on Dec 9, 2009 2:21 PM PST up reply actions 2 recs
I HATE YOU HARDEN. I HOPE YOU ENJOY PITCHING IN A SHITTY BANDBOX YOU RETARD
Is that the light at the end of the tunnel, or the headlights of an oncoming train?
I hope you break your arm throwing a pitch...
Tom Browning style. Enjoy your 5.00 ERA fuckface!
Jesus Christ
Who the hell said it was the Rangers? Its just a passing mention in a blog, right? I’m no longer surprised that Seattle has such a high suicide right.
Carlos Silvelite
That doesn't make much sense.
No matter what Corco’s state power rankings indicate, Washington is a hundred times a better place to live.
by katal on Dec 9, 2009 2:33 PM PST up reply actions 1 recs
It was bad joke.
Our suicide rate is extremely high and it is a very interesting reason behind it. Email me if you are interested.
I am interested, but I'm at work, and this computer is struggling to keep up with the comments on the page.
I’m not even going to try opening a new tab to check your profile for your e-mail address.
Was $7.5 million too high of a price for the M's or something?
This is gonna suck if he has a healthy year for Texas.
I cannot get my head around it either. Harden would have been perfect, perfect for that price.
by EnglishMariner on Dec 9, 2009 2:23 PM PST up reply actions
Seriously. And in this ballpark, even if he had another 150 inning season, his results would probably look better.
Our D and park would make his typical sort-of injured season look better and probably give him more value next year. What a retard.
JWL:EAHEIGHAWIO:RAWIL JAWL: :((
Determined, Jonesing Commentor | Proud proprietor of Wyomingroutes.org & Washingtonhighways.org
Beat me to it.
The Hawks should be better.
by Woodinville_12thMan on Dec 9, 2009 2:26 PM PST up reply actions
WHAT???
BrockandSalk Colin Cowherd will not be on the show today due to breaking Mariner’s news. Listen for an update from Mike @ the winter meetings next.
I heard Harden has a degenerative hip.
I fucking hate you Mariners
I WILL GIVE UP MY RIGHT KIDNEY TO A DYING CHILD IF HE HAS SIGNED WITH US AND NOT THEM*
*Will not actually give up kidney
Rotoworld is being weird:
According to Craig Calcaterra of NBCSports.com, Rich Harden has agreed to a one-year contract with right-hander Rich Harden.
FUCK THE DBACKS!
by Goose on Dec 9, 2009 2:29 PM PST reply actions 1 recs
So he's going to play with himself all next year?
by Jed MC on Dec 9, 2009 2:29 PM PST up reply actions 5 recs
So he'll be playing with himself?
Is that what I’m supposed to gather?
Rangers MLB.com guy says Rangers
"I was going to say, 'You’re gay for Elvis.' But then I realized that I, too, am gay for Elvis." ~Adam J. Morris.
Dammit.
It’s 2:30 and I should be working, but this Harden thing is killing me.
Harden is signing for the Rangers buddy.
by EnglishMariner on Dec 9, 2009 2:30 PM PST up reply actions
Still not caught up yet and am afraid to scroll down.
by Scruffy Lefty on Dec 9, 2009 2:46 PM PST up reply actions
JACK BAUER DIES!
I fucking hate you Mariners
last words:
I’M 20 MINUTES OUT! SET UP A PERIMETER!
by pdb on Dec 9, 2009 2:47 PM PST up reply actions
HE IS PLAYING FOR BOTH OF THEM!
7.5 million from each! Clearly!
WHAT THE FUCK IS GOING ON?
Is that the light at the end of the tunnel, or the headlights of an oncoming train?
RT: GeoffBaker
gbakermariners
Cubs saying they aren’t going to sign Harden. 1 minute ago from mobile web
NO SHIT!
I AM BREAKING SHIT UNTIL I KNOW WHATS UP
I fucking hate you Mariners
by kentroyals5 on Dec 9, 2009 2:32 PM PST reply actions 1 recs
LETS GO LOOTING
De Gutibus non disputandum est
by Bearskin Rugburn on Dec 9, 2009 2:32 PM PST up reply actions
BURN DOWN THE KINGDOME!
I fucking hate you Mariners
WAS THAT HARDEN'S ARM?
I fucking hate you Mariners
by kentroyals5 on Dec 9, 2009 2:32 PM PST up reply actions 1 recs
If it was, it's a sure thing he signed with us first.
Maybe he blew out his shoulder writing his signature.
Wow this is pretty interesting.
I picked a pretty good time for my first rumor check-in of the day.
angels fan in seattle
by Eyebrows on Dec 9, 2009 2:32 PM PST via mobile reply actions
I AM SO FUCKING CONFUSED.
Is that the light at the end of the tunnel, or the headlights of an oncoming train?
I'm going with the idea that's he's signed with himself until we have actual proof otherwise.
FUCK THE DBACKS!
by Goose on Dec 9, 2009 2:32 PM PST reply actions 1 recs
WHAT THE FUCK IS GOING ON!?
CMON HARDEN!
Just got here
What the fuck is happening? Confusion abounds!
I want to poop at your house - Thingray
DRAYER SAYS ITS US
De Gutibus non disputandum est
by Bearskin Rugburn on Dec 9, 2009 2:33 PM PST reply actions
UPDATE
THE MARLINS AREN’T GOING TO BE SIGNING HARDEN
WHAT A SCOOP HOLY SHIT
Is that the light at the end of the tunnel, or the headlights of an oncoming train?
2 DOWN,
BUT WHAT ABOUT THE OTHER 28?!!!
by Liebkartoffel on Dec 9, 2009 2:35 PM PST up reply actions
AIM LOW (NOT A DIRTY JOKE)
I fucking hate you Mariners
MAKE UP YOUR FUCKING MIND SHANNON
Is that the light at the end of the tunnel, or the headlights of an oncoming train?
This is insane.
The last time my emotions went up and down this fast, I was on Welbutrin trying to quit smoking.
Shannon sounds preoccupied here...
Trying to verify source?
It's also hilarious.
Depressing, but hilarious.
Fans are typically idiots.
by The Typical Idiot Fan on Dec 9, 2009 2:38 PM PST up reply actions
There may or may not be a baseball player signing a contract with a team.
The Hawks should be better.
by Woodinville_12thMan on Dec 9, 2009 2:36 PM PST up reply actions
TEXAS CAN GO TO MEXICO..FUCKERS
I fucking hate you Mariners
WEST COAST BIAS
I fucking hate you Mariners
Freaking Texas.
I hope he gives up a Home run on every pitch.
I NEVER TRUSTED TEXANS, AND I NEVER WILL. I'LL NEVER FORGIVE THEM FOR THE DEATH OF MY BOY.
by EnglishMariner on Dec 9, 2009 2:36 PM PST reply actions 2 recs
God damn you,
President James K. Polk, God damn you to hell.
by Liebkartoffel on Dec 9, 2009 2:40 PM PST up reply actions
I remember one fact from AP US History in high school:
James K Polk had chronic diarrhea and couldn’t leave the Whitehouse very often on account of it.
The primary ailment he had is rather a more terrifying story.
It involves surgery that left him sterile and in pain for the rest of his life. That certainly didn’t help.
Lucky, we just got
various grisly Disneyland death stories from our teacher, who used to work there. Actually…no, that was pretty awesome.
by Liebkartoffel on Dec 9, 2009 2:44 PM PST up reply actions
YES YES YES!
You, sir, have earned a rec for your masterful use of a Star Trek VI quote.
I will smash your face into a jelly.
GODDAMMIT THATS IT TRADE FOR HALLADAY SIGN LACKEY WE ARE GOING TO FUCK THEM RAGGED HARDEN WAS FOR US
De Gutibus non disputandum est
by Bearskin Rugburn on Dec 9, 2009 2:37 PM PST reply actions 2 recs
Someone had better explain what happened here
And why there was so much confusion over which team signed him.
Getting our hopes up makes it even worse than if Texas simply signed him
well, one thing was:
@shannondrayer: Sorry about the Harden, as you notice it wasn’t my @. Someone at studio got excited and tweeted when I said I needed to check it out.
by msb on Dec 9, 2009 8:55 PM PST up reply actions
"Emotions can run a little hot on things like this"
GEE YOU BEEN READING THIS THREAD SALK?!
SUCK A PENIS FROM ACROSS THE POND
I fucking hate you Mariners
We all lined up in front of that train.
I fucking hate you Mariners
AND THEY DUMPED NINE FUCKING MILLION OF MILLCOCKS SALARY WHICH IS HOW THEY BROKE FRANCHISE COULD AFFORD HIM.
SO FUCK BALTIMORE AS WELL, WHEN WILL THEY STOP FUCKING WITH US?
by EnglishMariner on Dec 9, 2009 2:39 PM PST up reply actions
Sign him for nothing and have him start 25 games this season
De Gutibus non disputandum est
by Bearskin Rugburn on Dec 9, 2009 2:41 PM PST up reply actions
CELLAR HERE WE COME!
angels fan in seattle
by Eyebrows on Dec 9, 2009 2:40 PM PST via mobile up reply actions
exactly
I don’t think the a’s will be that good either
by Edgar for Pres on Dec 9, 2009 2:40 PM PST up reply actions
Probably just a delayed radio feed or something. Seems like she got it about 2-3 minutes after we did.
Plus if she was using a blackberry, nbcsports.com was the only place that really had it.
She said it was just a text that she got from a source she "usually trusts"
by seattlesundevil on Dec 9, 2009 2:43 PM PST up reply actions
She mustve got bad info from someone?
Usually she is very good.
And I'm better now..whatever.
I fucking hate you Mariners
Can we get Justin Upton
We don’t have too much to get the DBacks but I’m sure we can work something out.
by Edgar for Pres on Dec 9, 2009 2:42 PM PST up reply actions
I'm sure hes just responding to the tweet storm
these things have a way of snowballing
De Gutibus non disputandum est
by Bearskin Rugburn on Dec 9, 2009 2:42 PM PST up reply actions
Hey
so you guys think it is Texas? Should we trust Shannon Drayer? Cause the Texas beat reporter changed his story to a maybe.
ok
well, with all that being said, it is still a maybe to the rangers. medical reports need to be evaluated. wouldnt’ be the first time the rangers had an agreement in principle and then backed otu after looking over medical reports.
but i will leave you. I hate people from other boards on ours and i assume the feeling is mutual
She was doing a segment on the air with Mike Salk.
I’m guessing that’s why she was a little slow with the update.
Not cool, Shannon. Not cool at all.
Is that the light at the end of the tunnel, or the headlights of an oncoming train?
Holy Shit, Twitter is down.
Twitter is over capacity.
Too many tweets! Please wait a moment and try again.
Mariner fans rule the Internet.
Is that the light at the end of the tunnel, or the headlights of an oncoming train?
I have an account that I hadn't touched in 6 months.
Is that the light at the end of the tunnel, or the headlights of an oncoming train?
You should offer him all the meals he can eat while he rehabs.
Then when he’s healthy, you can trade him for several young Hispanic fellows
So yeah Jack you really need to do something good here to counteract this, because the Rangers are sitting pretty fucking good right now.
FUCK THE DBACKS!
A GIANT METEOR NEEDS TO DESTROY ALL OF TEXAS
And cause it to fall into the ocean.
And then that needs to cause a tidal wave that destroys Baltimore
Just leave Austin alone and the rest of Texas can go away
by pdb on Dec 9, 2009 2:50 PM PST up reply actions
This sucks.
I wonder what Jack’s Plan B is now.
Is that the light at the end of the tunnel, or the headlights of an oncoming train?
d_a_cameron: And USSM is finally down. The annual tradition continues!
Took out twitter first, though. VICTORY
We need to take out Facebook next.
But the ultimate victory would be taking out SBN and then Fark.
FUCK THE DBACKS!
Why not Lone Star Ball?
I think this is a perfect situation.
This sucks so much. Harden was such a PERFECT fit
My Mariners blog - SodoMojo, Twitter Feed, Fuck the fucking Angels!
Well fuckit Jason Marquis is available
De Gutibus non disputandum est
by Bearskin Rugburn on Dec 9, 2009 2:51 PM PST reply actions
Loafie and Morrow for Halladay!
Is that the light at the end of the tunnel, or the headlights of an oncoming train?
HALLADAY
De Gutibus non disputandum est
by Bearskin Rugburn on Dec 9, 2009 2:53 PM PST up reply actions
You got that one wrong I think
They were giving up Feliz and Smoak but the Marlins wanted more.
De Gutibus non disputandum est
by Bearskin Rugburn on Dec 9, 2009 2:54 PM PST up reply actions
Its the fucking Marlins
De Gutibus non disputandum est
by Bearskin Rugburn on Dec 9, 2009 2:58 PM PST up reply actions
Yeah, not happening for us.
Is that the light at the end of the tunnel, or the headlights of an oncoming train?
I can't believe this is true
But fuck them if so, they are dumb.
But really is Sheets that much more a risk?
De Gutibus non disputandum est
by Bearskin Rugburn on Dec 9, 2009 2:54 PM PST up reply actions
At least he's been able to top 200IP in the past
and did well in 08.
De Gutibus non disputandum est
by Bearskin Rugburn on Dec 9, 2009 2:57 PM PST up reply actions
Fair enough
De Gutibus non disputandum est
by Bearskin Rugburn on Dec 9, 2009 3:00 PM PST up reply actions
Rumor is...
…he’ll only pitch off flat ground and won’t release his medical files right now.
If Brad Pitt is playing Beane who do you want playing you?
JD: Eddie Guardado.
Yeah, totally less risky than Harden.
Is that the light at the end of the tunnel, or the headlights of an oncoming train?
At $12M, when we still need to address 1B/DH? No thank you.
Is that the light at the end of the tunnel, or the headlights of an oncoming train?
That figure was certainly put out by his agent.
He’s not going to get 12 guaranteed.
De Gutibus non disputandum est
by Bearskin Rugburn on Dec 9, 2009 2:57 PM PST up reply actions
For what it's worth...
the Rangers agreed in principle with him last year for ~$8 plus incentives, but it fell through once they did the physical.
If Brad Pitt is playing Beane who do you want playing you?
JD: Eddie Guardado.
Saunders, Triunfel, Loafie and Morrow for Tillman
I fucking hate you Mariners
You are crazy
He has tricked you with his gypsy magic. He is nothing.
by Edgar for Pres on Dec 9, 2009 2:57 PM PST up reply actions
You can't just assume last year means he's suddenly good.
He sucked as recently as 2008. Before this year, his last season over 1 WAR was 2005…
It's not like he suddenly got lucky or struck out way more people than in the past.
He dropped his walk rate a ton (expect it to jump up to average again) and started making hitters pound it into the ground (regress a little, but he is a different pitcher than before). If he’s a 4.0 FIP pitcher and pitches 170 innings, he’s well worth that 3/26 or whatever.
Drastic changes are weird though. You can't assume he's a 4.00 FIP pitcher based on some drastic improvements made last year.
Who knows how sustainable they are?
He had 2 major changes from his previous years:
1. HUGE jump in GB%
2. Lower walk rate
1 is easily explained by him picking up that sinking fastball. All of his other pitches maintained mostly the same value, while his fastball went up drastically. Unless he forgets how to throw the SFB, his GB% won’t drop a ton. Here’s something to read on the subject.
2. Well, that’s probably going to go a lot closer to his career rates.
What lailaihei said
He was a drastically different pitcher last year than in years past. Over the last 2 years, he’s transitioned from throwing his 4-seamer ~60% and his 2-seamer ~10% to just about flip-flopping those numbers. I think he threw his 2-seamer close to 70% last year and practically refused to give up homers and walks. So measuring what he did in the past is probably not going to tell you much about him now.
It’s hard to imagine him being able to keep his walk and homer rates down to the level we saw last year, but there’s a real good chance that he’ll be a lot better than before.
If someone wants to pay him thinking he’s going to repeat last year, well, good luck to them. But he’s been very durable and should probably get a deal like most average-ish starters get, something like what lailaihei suggested.
by nathaniel dawson on Dec 9, 2009 5:09 PM PST up reply actions
Depends on how much you think 2009 was improvement, and how much was a fluke.
I don’t think anyone expects him to be a ~5 win pitcher again next year, but his WAR has been below 1 every single year until this one since 2006. Is it really safe to assume he’d be more than a 4.30 FIP, 2-3 WAR pitcher at best next year? Not that it doesn’t have it’s value, but he seems hard to predict.
He clearly not as good as 2009, but he did learn a new pitch last year
so I’m optimistic he can keep his tRA in the low fours.
I just wouldn’t want to commit an assload of resources to him.
I think he's likely to perform better than that, I just feel he's too risky.
While he may maintain a FIP under 4.30, or a tRA in the low-to-mid 4s, it’s probably just personal bias that makes me believe he could always collapse back to his old self at any time.
Dude, he was fucking awesome last year
He’s be worth $10m over one year let alone two.
And yes it is your bias, because he learned a new pitch. It’s not like he lucked his way into a Washburn style 1st half.
I know he learned a new pitch, but that doesn't mean he's gonna stay this good.
He may not regress as far as I’m thinking, and may very well be worth $10 million a year, but I wouldn’t want to be the team paying him that.
10 million over one year, less over a LT deal.
I don’t know why you’d think he’d regress to 2008 Piniero unless you think he’s completely going to abandon his new sinker, but I don’t think its nuts to think he’ll be above average going forward.
I think he can be above average going forward.
I’m just not seeing anything close to his 3.27 FIP, 3.46 tRA in the future. I don’t think he’ll be at the 2008 level or anything, but I think a 4.30 FIP is something I can see him doing going forward…maybe. That’s valuable, but I’m just gun shy on him.
Joel Pineiro fucking sucks
He deserves nothing. Anything he receives should be evenly dispersed between all of us for the shit we had to watch.
Like I said before. He is tricking you. He did well last year but he hasn’t changed. He’s the same talentless assclown.
by Edgar for Pres on Dec 9, 2009 9:12 PM PST up reply actions
His GB rate spiked with the addition of a new pitch and he cut his walks in half.
I don’t think he’s the star he was last year, but he’s not garbage.
I just think its really preliminary
to say he’s put his past behind him. Washburn supposedly learned new pitches and was better for short stints. I’m very skeptical of pitchers who learn new pitches. Plus I doubt the new found control he showed will stay with him. Its pretty surprising that his control was so consistent and then became spectacular. Combine all that with very low HR rates (may be from higher GB%) and it all just makes me feel like he’s most likely going to return to his old ways.
by Edgar for Pres on Dec 9, 2009 9:37 PM PST up reply actions
Fuck, I accidentally hit enter twice. Shaky hands.
But Washburn learning new pitches never led to any difference in his important numbers. Pineiro had actual change in performance with his new pitch. Washburn kind of had that with the “flipper”, then he got hurt and sucky before there was enough sample size on the pitch.
It helped him for a few months
Is there really a big difference between 3 months and a season?
by Edgar for Pres on Dec 9, 2009 9:44 PM PST up reply actions
What if baseball was one month longer
Would Pineiro have had his version of Washburn’s September?
by Edgar for Pres on Dec 9, 2009 9:47 PM PST up reply actions
That's such a ridiculous comparison
Just because you hate the guy doesn’t mean he’s Jarrod Washburn. Washburn ran a tRA upwards of 5, Pineiro was a legit Cy Young candidate.
Yeah I'm just not about to believe one year
He had a good year. I’d just really be concerned and not ignore the years previous. I basically think Pineiro has the upside to be Jason Marquis next year. Downside is to turn into old Pineiro.
by Edgar for Pres on Dec 9, 2009 10:13 PM PST up reply actions
Top comp (from baseball ref)
Vincent Padilla
by Edgar for Pres on Dec 9, 2009 3:02 PM PST up reply actions
The only thing that could salvage this day for me right now is signing Nick Johnson
Barring any awesome trades
My Mariners blog - SodoMojo, Twitter Feed, Fuck the fucking Angels!
Yeah they need to just go for hitters.
Nick Johnson, maybe Mike Cameron, Branyan…
Definitely not Bay, probalby not Lackey imo.
This is something someone who looks at baseball purely through the eyes of cliche might say
by Graham on Dec 9, 2009 3:01 PM PST up reply actions 2 recs
Adding Figgins, Nick Johnson, and a Cameron to last years team doesn't
win us the division in 2010 in my opinion.
well they might as well not even bother to play then
by pdb on Dec 9, 2009 3:03 PM PST up reply actions
I'm not saying that. Just expressing frustration that we couldn't secure this pitcher
at what seems like a good price
I guess we should just give up than
My Mariners blog - SodoMojo, Twitter Feed, Fuck the fucking Angels!
Thats about the same chance of winning as
Figgins, Johnson, and Harden.
But we already have one!
2.018 wOBA in 2008!
by I Lick Squirrels on Dec 9, 2009 3:29 PM PST up reply actions
Wins are Wins...
Doesnt matter where they come from, just what you have to pay for them.’
Just need to find another way to spend the Harden money that gives us several wins.
With an iceaxe
De Gutibus non disputandum est
by Bearskin Rugburn on Dec 9, 2009 2:59 PM PST up reply actions
Only steers and queers are from Texas Harden and I don't see any horns on your head!
FUCK THE DBACKS!
I bet Harden's the kind of guy that would fuck a person in the ass and not even have the goddamn common courtesy to give him a reach-around.
Just like he did with the M’s today.
Is that the light at the end of the tunnel, or the headlights of an oncoming train?
by Benne on Dec 9, 2009 3:02 PM PST up reply actions 2 recs
We're fucked. This guy made the most sense in terms of upside and contract.
Now we’re stuck either overpaying for Lackey, or giving up our prospects for a starting pitcher (and I can’t even think of a good one available)
I dont know.
I think we might be able to find a cheap flyballer available who could give us some innings… not that that is desirable, but our D would make him appear more valuable than he is for a trade later on. Just look at Washburn last year.
We've got like 50 of those guys already on the roster.
Is that the light at the end of the tunnel, or the headlights of an oncoming train?
I just can't get over how little sense it makes for Harden to choose Texas over Seattle
My Mariners blog - SodoMojo, Twitter Feed, Fuck the fucking Angels!
Not to foster false hope or anything,
The most we’ve heard is that Texas is ‘close’ to signing Harden, and that Harden is also talking extensively with Seattle. No announcements have been made.
DON'T GET MY HOPES UP AGAIN
Is that the light at the end of the tunnel, or the headlights of an oncoming train?
Reading through this thread was an emotional roller coaster.
O well, hopefully Harden gets shelled and put on the DL. Time to focus on Bedard or the trade market.
2009 Safeco Field Record: 6-0 ; Overall Safeco Field Record: 10-4
So now we're back to sitting around and waiting for something to happen.
I love the winter meetings.
Is that the light at the end of the tunnel, or the headlights of an oncoming train?
"5:10pm: Ken Rosenthal of FOX Sports says Harden has signed with the Rangers."
My Mariners blog - SodoMojo, Twitter Feed, Fuck the fucking Angels!
Ok, now that's been edited
And it’s back to saying “is close to signing with the Rangers”
My Mariners blog - SodoMojo, Twitter Feed, Fuck the fucking Angels!
ESPN's Winter Meetings Live feed via Jorge Arangure Jr.
reported the Orioles have officially announced the Millwood trade.
Shannon redemmed.
shannondrayer
Sorry about the Harden, as you notice it wasn’t my @. Someone at studio got excited and tweeted when I said I needed to check it out.
Is that the light at the end of the tunnel, or the headlights of an oncoming train?
If Z wanted him we'd have him
This just kinda shows how dumb Harden is. As some of you have said, Arlington is no place to revive one’s career. Driving a streak into it? Yes, that is more like it. His stats in Arlington are pretty funny. Who knows, this could EASILY blow up in the Rangers’ face.
Carlos Silvelite
Ugh
You mean he isn’t a mythical creature that can have whoever he wants!? I know he probably wanted him, I’m just trying to lighten up the situation.
Carlos Silvelite
Sorry, failed Naked Gun reference
Naked Gun quotes
I forget that many here were still in diapers in 1988.
So I left for about an hour and a half and missed all the Harden stuff
It was interesting to watch the wave of emotion from elation to shock to anger to disappointment. Eventually we’ll get to acceptance.
Yes reestablish your market value in a pitchers graveyard instead of a pitchers heaven.
You got slurved!
But depressed BABIP's!
Infield defense!
If Brad Pitt is playing Beane who do you want playing you?
JD: Eddie Guardado.
The annoying thing is this is really a $10.5/year deal for the Rangers
They’re paying Baltimore $3M of Millwood’s salary
His fastball is 102 cmph!
De Gutibus non disputandum est
by Bearskin Rugburn on Dec 9, 2009 3:27 PM PST up reply actions
cmph
Cuban. Miles per hour.
De Gutibus non disputandum est
by Bearskin Rugburn on Dec 9, 2009 3:28 PM PST up reply actions
In the British sense?
De Gutibus non disputandum est
by Bearskin Rugburn on Dec 9, 2009 3:28 PM PST up reply actions
Nice.
Thought you might have been commenting on Chapman’s pitching. Fanstastic comment overall.
De Gutibus non disputandum est
by Bearskin Rugburn on Dec 9, 2009 3:29 PM PST up reply actions
Course I just killed the subtlety
De Gutibus non disputandum est
by Bearskin Rugburn on Dec 9, 2009 3:29 PM PST up reply actions
Sammy, I don't think the MLBPA would approve of a contract that only paid a player $4.50 a year.
angels fan in seattle
by Eyebrows on Dec 9, 2009 3:36 PM PST via mobile up reply actions 1 recs
Not to mention, that certainly violates both state and federal minimum wage laws.
angels fan in seattle
by Eyebrows on Dec 9, 2009 3:36 PM PST via mobile up reply actions
Actually...
..it used to be that way. Baseball players coming in from abroad were classified as seasonal workers and there were only a certain number of visas allotted each year to the teams. This resulted in a cycle of ugliness where talented international prospects got passed over in favor of domestics with inferior performances, simply because teams couldn’t afford to give one of their visas to them.
A few years back, the MLB talked lawmakers into reclassifying baseball players as entertainers, who are granted unlimited visas. It’s had a huge impact, but no one really talks about it much because it pertains to prospects unknown to most people.
"Ever tried? Ever failed? No matter. Try again. Fail again. Fail better." - Samuel Beckett http://mvn.com/marinersminors/
by JY on Dec 9, 2009 6:06 PM PST up reply actions 3 recs
I was in contact with some players from Australia and South Africa who got screwed by this.
I was happy when the rules finally changed for the better, but it was a bit too late for those guys to benefit, and there wasn’t a whole lot I could do to assist them in the matter either. The whole arrangement before was just awful.
"Ever tried? Ever failed? No matter. Try again. Fail again. Fail better." - Samuel Beckett http://mvn.com/marinersminors/
by JY on Dec 9, 2009 7:24 PM PST up reply actions
Kei Igawa money!
De Gutibus non disputandum est
by Bearskin Rugburn on Dec 9, 2009 3:37 PM PST up reply actions
I'd put him in High Desert just to yake him down a peg or two
De Gutibus non disputandum est
by Bearskin Rugburn on Dec 9, 2009 3:39 PM PST up reply actions
Take
balls
De Gutibus non disputandum est
by Bearskin Rugburn on Dec 9, 2009 3:39 PM PST up reply actions
Could it be that Harden
Simply doesn’t want to play in Seattle? We did draft him, didn’t we?
This is what I'm inclined to believe.
Either that or Texas offered more, and Jack didn’t want to get into a bidding war.
Hardly a damnable strategy since Bavasi seemed to always be bidding against himself.
For what it's worth...
@ari_bo_bari Haha, Harden on pitching in Oakland: We get a lot of cool nights. I’m more at home in that weather than in Texas, where it’s hot and humid.
If Brad Pitt is playing Beane who do you want playing you?
JD: Eddie Guardado.
Texas probably just offered him more money
by Edgar for Pres on Dec 9, 2009 3:30 PM PST up reply actions
Yeah
Unless we thought he was an immediate injury risk I can’t see the Mariner saying no to that.
That's probably it
Might have thought Texas has a better shot at the playoffs than the Mariners do in 2010. And pitching well in the playoffs seems to elevate a pitchers value in free agency beyond all reason and sanity.
Bright side?
Jack Z seems to be WAYYYY better at the “Plan B” than Bavasi. (Well, better than everything, really.)
angels fan in seattle
by Eyebrows on Dec 9, 2009 3:32 PM PST via mobile reply actions
I wonder if Nolan Ryan being in the Rangers' FO helped get Harden.
If I were a pitcher about Harden’s age, I would have probably grown up idolizing the guy.
I will smash your face into a jelly.
Harden is a bit too young to have watched much of Nolan Ryan in his prime.
He could have idolized Ryan, but I would put my money on someone like Roger Clemens and his generation.
You can idolize players on different teams.
I grew up watching the SF Giants, but idolized Griffey.
I will smash your face into a jelly.
It just doesn't make sense
Why in the world would a pitcher jump for a higher contract now to play in Texas when he could reestablish his value in a park like Safeco? If I were Jack Z. I would approach every negotiation with a pitcher by walking into a room and putting down this number on a piece of paper:
2.64
Any defense/park combo that can give Washburn that ERA should be a pitcher’s dream.
I know ERA doesn’t matter. Player’s don’t seem to.
Because big actual money now is better than big theoretical money next year
by pdb on Dec 9, 2009 3:45 PM PST up reply actions
The comment
was predicated on the fact that we couldn’t have been too far off. If we offered 3 mil a year then I can understand it, but turning down 6.75 to take 7.5 seems weird.
Put yourself in that position
Would you rather have $6.5 million dollars or $7.5 million? I’ll take 7.5 every time, pretty much. These guys are in this to maximize their income now, not to take less money somewhere this year in hopes that they stays healthy and don’t collapse in the coming year in order to cash in.
Sometimes, most of the time, it’s purely about maximizing dollars and nothing more.
by pdb on Dec 9, 2009 3:50 PM PST up reply actions
That's what gets me, Graham
I find it impossible to believe that we wouldn’t have offered something comparable. It’s funny, though, I saw a flurry of “Harden signs with Rangers” notes now they seem to be disappearing. Maybe it was all an elaborate ruse…
If I were in that position
I’d sign with the Yankees and try to win another World Series.
Salary?
I was ignoring salary, solely meant a chance at being on a winning team. Obviously the cost of living is greater in NYC than anywhere else.
if you're making more than 7 million a year you're not so worried about cost of living
by pdb on Dec 9, 2009 4:00 PM PST up reply actions
Exactly
that’s why I’d sign with the Yankees.
I doubt Harden cares about winning since he hasn't had a big payday.
Beltre is a player who would care more about going to a winning team than have another big payday (and I believe he was quoted during the season saying something along these lines).
For Harden, he needs to get the best deal possible each year until he hits the big payday. $7.5 is enough to retire on, but retirement for a professional athlete is much longer than someone like you or me.
I know
Doesn’t mean if he called them and said I’ll pitch for a year for 2 mil they wouldn’t take him.
The salaries don’t make sense, the teams don’t align right, I know, I just know I would rather win than make more money.
I think we might be taking the park-factor thing to far.
If Harden is healthy he’s going to be good for Texas, plus as Graham mentioned Texas is probably closer to a championship.
SEA!
Only if it lands us one of their pitchers.
Andrew Miller sounds like a fun reclamation project.
You got slurved!
Who the hell is Robert Rodriguez?
StoneLarry Mariner minor-leaguer Robert Rodriguez suspended 50 games after testing positive for performance-enhancing substance
Not sure, but what I'm seeing, he isn't good
My Mariners blog - SodoMojo, Twitter Feed, Fuck the fucking Angels!
I guess Rodriguez decided to give up on the whole movie thing.
Is that the light at the end of the tunnel, or the headlights of an oncoming train?
He was really good for a year in the DSL.
Then got to the US, sucked, and went back to the Dominican, where he continued to suck.
Seems like a likely suspect.
"Ever tried? Ever failed? No matter. Try again. Fail again. Fail better." - Samuel Beckett http://mvn.com/marinersminors/
by JY on Dec 9, 2009 4:05 PM PST up reply actions
WHAT
Red Sox and Rangers Talking Lowell Deal
The Rangers and Red Sox are discussing a deal that would send Mike Lowell to Texas, according to Rob Bradford of WEEI.com. The trade is “possible, but not close,” according to Bradford’s source. It’s possible that catcher Max Ramirez would come to Boston in exchange for Lowell. Joe McDonald of the Providence Journal echoes Bradford’s report.
Lowell is set to earn $12MM next year, his last season before free agency. Theo Epstein says he doesn’t expect to make a blockbuster deal before the meetings end, but a Lowell trade probably wouldn’t be one.
How the hell can they be so smart and then do something so stupid?
Texas is doing
everything it possibly can to F us. If Lowell goes that means the likelihood of Beltre going to the Red Sox increases. I will literally rip my own heart out of I have to walk around Boston and see Beltre jerseys….
They don't mind Dominican black people
Just African black people. Unless they play for the Pats or Celtics. Then they are ok.
Unless he bottomed out last year, Ramirez seems like a good return
for losing some/all of Lowell’s contract.
And where the hell did Texas get the extra payroll?
I can't believe I'm going to have to fall asleep today not knowing if Texas boned us or not
all indications are boned, but I’m still hoping not.
De Gutibus non disputandum est
by Bearskin Rugburn on Dec 9, 2009 4:09 PM PST reply actions
I missed the Harden shitstorm.
Bummer.
"Ever tried? Ever failed? No matter. Try again. Fail again. Fail better." - Samuel Beckett http://mvn.com/marinersminors/
There were something like 600+ new posts in the space of, what, three hours?
"Ever tried? Ever failed? No matter. Try again. Fail again. Fail better." - Samuel Beckett http://mvn.com/marinersminors/
by JY on Dec 9, 2009 4:13 PM PST up reply actions
I gather that.
I only meant to say I checked three hours later and bam.
"Ever tried? Ever failed? No matter. Try again. Fail again. Fail better." - Samuel Beckett http://mvn.com/marinersminors/
by JY on Dec 9, 2009 4:15 PM PST up reply actions
Back spasms
De Gutibus non disputandum est
by Bearskin Rugburn on Dec 9, 2009 4:15 PM PST up reply actions
We don't have Kenji anymore :(
"Ever tried? Ever failed? No matter. Try again. Fail again. Fail better." - Samuel Beckett http://mvn.com/marinersminors/
by JY on Dec 9, 2009 4:16 PM PST up reply actions
I made it out alive, somehow.
Is that the light at the end of the tunnel, or the headlights of an oncoming train?
Fuck I just want to take a nap for like 3 hours and pray something has happened when I wake up
After all that hope and excitement coming to such a crashing halt, it’s brutal just sitting here with nothing happening
My Mariners blog - SodoMojo, Twitter Feed, Fuck the fucking Angels!
No kidding, it's like walking into an empty room 3 hours after the greatest New Year's Eve party ever.
Nothing left but the wreckage.
I'd like to expand on that.
It’s like walking into a party late, where three hours earlier, someone arrived with what they thought to be the hardest liquor available, which quickly got everyone trashed, and then about an hour later, it was discovered that said liquor was actually some kind of cleaning product, and all you can hear is distant vomiting, groaning, and the scratching of people dragging themselves back to the bathroom.
"Ever tried? Ever failed? No matter. Try again. Fail again. Fail better." - Samuel Beckett http://mvn.com/marinersminors/
by JY on Dec 9, 2009 4:28 PM PST up reply actions 5 recs
And then you go to your bedroom
And your annoying neighbour is having sex with the hot girl you had you eye on and had been flirting with for a couple of weeks.
by Graham on Dec 9, 2009 4:41 PM PST up reply actions 5 recs
Yes, that pretty much covers it.
Thank you.
"Ever tried? Ever failed? No matter. Try again. Fail again. Fail better." - Samuel Beckett http://mvn.com/marinersminors/
by JY on Dec 9, 2009 4:45 PM PST up reply actions
But its ok because it turns out the hot girl has a broken vagina
De Gutibus non disputandum est
by Bearskin Rugburn on Dec 9, 2009 4:53 PM PST up reply actions 3 recs
You want more?
Even after yesterday and late today?
"Ever tried? Ever failed? No matter. Try again. Fail again. Fail better." - Samuel Beckett http://mvn.com/marinersminors/
by JY on Dec 9, 2009 4:48 PM PST up reply actions
We still need to have the Rule 5* draft tomorrow morning.
*preemptive and obligatory 5 not V comment.
"Ever tried? Ever failed? No matter. Try again. Fail again. Fail better." - Samuel Beckett http://mvn.com/marinersminors/
by JY on Dec 9, 2009 4:49 PM PST up reply actions
Something like that.
It’s not really a full day of action, but that doesn’t mean something couldn’t happen.
"Ever tried? Ever failed? No matter. Try again. Fail again. Fail better." - Samuel Beckett http://mvn.com/marinersminors/
by JY on Dec 9, 2009 4:52 PM PST up reply actions
And there's still a chance that something could happen tonight.
All the GM’s are all in the still hotel after all.
A Mariners fan in Seattle
Time to get Jon Daniels drunk and have him trade us Netfali Feliz for Jose Lopez
Determined, Jonesing Commentor | Proud proprietor of Wyomingroutes.org & Washingtonhighways.org
Well fuck.
So the 3 day and the one way fucking.
My ass hurts. Fuck these winter meetings.
FUCK THE DBACKS!
FFUUUUUUU-
… actually, no, I don’t expect to lose anyone important unless I’m way off on the rules. We could lose Peguero or something, but I don’t think the organization cares too much about his home runs if he strikes out all the time and can’t walk.
"Ever tried? Ever failed? No matter. Try again. Fail again. Fail better." - Samuel Beckett http://mvn.com/marinersminors/
by JY on Dec 9, 2009 4:51 PM PST up reply actions
I was just trying to pile on the depression
We’ve protected everyone important, and I’m sure Jack will find someone interesting.
Julio Lugo! Reegie Corona!
I’m not especially enthusiastic, but something could happen.
"Ever tried? Ever failed? No matter. Try again. Fail again. Fail better." - Samuel Beckett http://mvn.com/marinersminors/
by JY on Dec 9, 2009 4:56 PM PST up reply actions
If nothing else, I want to know where the Yankees get off trading for the top pick.
"Ever tried? Ever failed? No matter. Try again. Fail again. Fail better." - Samuel Beckett http://mvn.com/marinersminors/
by JY on Dec 9, 2009 5:14 PM PST up reply actions
Not like last year, no.
I shouldn’t say that exactly, because while last year was hyped, there was only one guy who contributed significantly and that was Everth Cabrera. It’s basically the standard array of Latin American arms with little experience and various other hangers-on or potential breakouts.
I’d take Arquimedes Caminero, because we need another Arquimedes/z to make the big leagues, and he’s a talented arm, but I have no doubt that he’s going off the boards early.
There are a few other utlity/catcher types like Robinson Chironis and the lesser Chad Tracy, but neither are on the level of Doumit. Chironis has more versatility, which might attract Zduriencik, while Tracy offers more power. One of the other big hitting names is Colin Curtis, but he doesn’t offer anything we don’t already get with Saunders so I have no interest.
I’d take Caminero, and could see rationale for the others, but there’s no one that really excites me.
"Ever tried? Ever failed? No matter. Try again. Fail again. Fail better." - Samuel Beckett http://mvn.com/marinersminors/
by JY on Dec 9, 2009 5:33 PM PST up reply actions
Corey Patterson!
"Ever tried? Ever failed? No matter. Try again. Fail again. Fail better." - Samuel Beckett http://mvn.com/marinersminors/
It's any news at all?
"Ever tried? Ever failed? No matter. Try again. Fail again. Fail better." - Samuel Beckett http://mvn.com/marinersminors/
by JY on Dec 9, 2009 6:34 PM PST up reply actions
It just gets better:
The Angels have offered SP Joe Saunders, SS Erick Aybar and CF Peter Bourjos to the Blue Jays for ace Roy Halladay, according to the Toronto Sun.
The offer could put the Angels in the driver’s seat for Toronto’s ace; they have been the most aggressive in negotiations and possess the requisite ammunition to get a deal done. Saunders, 28, was 16-7 with a 4.60 earned run average in 31 starts in 2009. Aybar, who will turn 26 next month, hit .312 with five homers and 58 RBIs in 137 games. Bourjos, 22, is a highly-regarded speedster. Saunders and Aybar are both three years away from free agency. The story notes that the Blue Jays would likely trade recently-signed shortstop Alex Gonzalez if they acquired Aybar.
FUCK THE DBACKS!
That's just great.
Racer X. You have to love those amarillo hops.
p.s. fuck you angels
I can see it now. The Rangers basically trade Millwood for Harden, and the Angels basically trade Lackey for Halladay.
Both teams substantially improve themselves for next year and are already better off than us for the future(at least Texas is).
Meanwhile, we end up with the Angels scraps, Chone Figgins and John Lackey.
You’d better pull off something good Jack, because if that’s what happens, I won’t be impressed one bit.
FUCK THE DBACKS!
I was so hopeful yesterday when I went to bed.
Racer X. You have to love those amarillo hops.
p.s. fuck you angels
Rangers are better. But I think we'd have closed the gap on Anaheim if they
subtract Figgins, Lackey, Guerrero, Saunders, Aybar while adding Halladay.
And we add Figgins and Lackey and the couple of other bats we’re sure to bring into the mix at 1B and DH
Well, to me, yeah, losing Harden really sucks
But what annoys me more, being extremely impatient, is that I really expected, and was hoping for, something big to get done during these meetings, and now it looks like I’ll have to keep waiting.
My Mariners blog - SodoMojo, Twitter Feed, Fuck the fucking Angels!
I'm with ya, but I'd call today boring and mildly disappointing, I wouldn't say it sucks.
That’s just a difference of semantics and stuff though.
Rich Harden is the best pitcher on the market and a perfect fit for this team.
Having him on the team would have gone a long way towards making the Mariners legitimate contenders in the AL West going into next season and there was good reason to believe we were about to sign him. Instead we find out he signed with a division rival for a ridiculously favorable deal. I don’t really see how saying that today sucks is an overreaction.
by Aaron Campeau on Dec 9, 2009 8:05 PM PST up reply actions
Pretty good description of what my reasoning was while posting it.
My Mariners blog - SodoMojo, Twitter Feed, Fuck the fucking Angels!
Yeah, but while he has 5 win upside, he was more likely to be a good value 2ish win pitcher in 140 innings.
He would’ve been nice to have, but I don’t think it’s a crippling blow to the offseason or anything.
Just two wins
I have a hard time seeing him at less than 3 if he pitcher 14- innings. Plus, with the playoff schedule they way it is, Harden become ridiculously valuable if we reach the postseason.
He was only worth 1.8 wins in 141 IP in 2009.
Granted he was worth 4.4 in 2008 in 148 innings, but I guess what I’m saying is, while this is lame, it’s a high risk move for us or the Rangers. If they luck into a great year, well done Texas, but it’s by no means a clear and devastating blow to our offseason. I think it’s more of a set-back.
And yeah, I agree he’d be a huge asset in the post-season if we had gotten him.
It was 1.47 last year, and hits K rate and BB rate were basically the same.
Each were a tad worse, but not significantly. I love Harden and all, I just don’t consider this a terrible terrible loss.
Well you should because a 3-5 win player (who's value would be even greater in the postseason)
Just defected from us to our strongest competitor over what was likely a million dollars or so. That could be the difference between going to the playoffs and not.
by Poochie on Dec 9, 2009 8:44 PM PST up reply actions 1 recs
Why wouldn't they do this?
They get a good young shortstop in Aybar, a serviceable starter in Saunders, both of whom are under club control for 3 more years, save themselves about $8 MM, add a good looking prospect, all at the expense of 1 year of Roy Halladay.
by nathaniel dawson on Dec 9, 2009 7:28 PM PST up reply actions
That's a good trade, methinks
Determined, Jonesing Commentor | Proud proprietor of Wyomingroutes.org & Washingtonhighways.org
Yeah that could definitely be interesting
If he could stay healthy, he could fit into the #2 slot nicely. His name hasn’t been mentioned much, but I did see something earlier today saying that we’re at least somewhat interested.
My Mariners blog - SodoMojo, Twitter Feed, Fuck the fucking Angels!
It would obviously be another high risk/high reward signing
And would have to be a pretty small base number with lots of incentives. Worth looking at at least, I’d think.
My Mariners blog - SodoMojo, Twitter Feed, Fuck the fucking Angels!
I think that if he can be had for cheap he's a risk worth taking.
I’d way rather give Escobar $4 million than give Sheets $12 million.
by Aaron Campeau on Dec 9, 2009 8:19 PM PST up reply actions
I'm having a hard time believing Escobar would get that much.
He basically hasn’t pitched in two years. That’s gonna scare a lot of people off. The risk is too high to guarantee $4 million, I’d assume. But yeah, I see your point.
It's not a bad idea but I thought he was completely done.
He kind of qualifies as a potential restoration project rather than a risky pitcher with high upside at this point doesn’t he?
HOLLIDAY TIME MOTHERFUCKERS
Cards not giving Holliday’s agent Boras a deadline — 3:55 p.m.
The Cardinals haven’t imposed a deadline on agent Scott Boras in the Matt Holliday talks, according to a source with knowledge of the discussions.
The source said it is “still early” in the process that will lead to Holliday’s megadeal.
The Red Sox, Yankees, Mariners and Mets are among the teams involved. — Jon Paul Morosi
If the Yankees sign Holliday, the world will officially end.
I would love Holliday, but only at DH. Not that his defense is bad, but he would jam up the outfield further.
His defense is above average.
Why not save the DH for Branyan, Carp, Johnson, or someone else who is not good in the field?
Not jam up the outfield next year, but in future years.
I guess by that time he would be more susceptible to move to DH, so it’s not that bad of jam.
Yeah, plus if Ackley stays at 2B, it's not really an issue.
I’d assume if we got Holliday that Saunders would go to AAA to build some value then be used later in the year as a trade chip.
I believe we push back his service time clock starting if he stays in AAA for a little bit to begin the season
This would have some, albeit minor, value
He could prove he can hit left-handers.
There was a .300 OPS difference in his splits this year, .200 in slugging alone.
"Ever tried? Ever failed? No matter. Try again. Fail again. Fail better." - Samuel Beckett http://mvn.com/marinersminors/
by JY on Dec 9, 2009 8:56 PM PST up reply actions
Not if you have a better defender (Saunders) and no one at DH.
The DH takes a huge positional adjustment, but you are never going to be perfectly efficient when filling out a roster.
We have an incredibly small sample size of Saunders on defense. We don't know for sure if he's better than Holliday.
Holliday, on the other hand, we know is a 6.9 UZR/150 defender in LF. Why turn a 5-6 win LF into a 4 win DH when you can put Holliday out there and get Johnson or Branyan to be a 2ish win DH? Saunders wouldn’t be a 2-win DH, and to say you’re sure his defense would make up for the value we’d lose putting Holliday at DH seems iffy at best.
I would bet Saunders is better than Holliday at defense, sample size be damned.
However, if you can find a better DH to make up the difference of Saunders being in LF and Holliday at DH, then by all means go that direction. As of right now, though, Griffey is penciled in at DH.
I'm pretty sure they don't plan on having Griffey DH.
Still as far as dollars per win go, with the cost it would take to get Holliday, it’d be a waste to put him at DH when he could give you more value somewhere else.
Like I said, teams will never be perfectly efficient when allocating resources.
You would need the Yankees payroll to begin to afford to do so, or have an incredible farm system that churns out star players at the position you need.
Yeah but we could just sign Holliday, Johnson, and Branyan.
Call it an offseason, and you’ve allocated your resources much more efficiently than by putting a guy who is a good defensive LF at DH and a certainly below average hitter in 2010 for defensive purposes.
Plus, then we can use Saunders as part of a package to get a starter if we still need one.
Depends on how cheap Holliday signs.
But you can possibly have 5-10 million to spend after he signs if we have the high end of our potential money to spend ($25m) in actuality.
I doubt Holliday has an interest in being a DH
If he were to be signed I would expect Saunders to be traded
I was actually thinking that wouldn't be a bad move-- to trade Saunders if we signed Holliday.
He could return some good value if you package him with Morrow. And if Holliday is signed, there really won’t be a position for Saunders for a few years and maybe never with Gillies coming up the system.
When I think 'recovering from TJ' 'catcher' immediately comes to mind
Granted, there are some other clauses that come to mind with it…
GO GO GO GO GO!
Fuck Anaheim.
by Professor Hubert J. Farnsworth on Dec 9, 2009 8:51 PM PST up reply actions
Well, he's been worth between $25M and $32.2M in terms of WAR over each of the last 3 years
And he’s only 29. So I’d think so, yes
My Mariners blog - SodoMojo, Twitter Feed, Fuck the fucking Angels!
He's also only 29 so he's not a candidate to fall off a cliff or anything.
Though Safeco would suppress his numbers a bit.
True, and while I don't think he'd fall off in five years
He’s clearly not the best fit here, as opposed to St. Louis (closest thing to a hometown team), and Boston/NY
Bad fit or not, I'd love to have him. He's good enough that he'd still be a 4-6 win player and earn his money.
He seems like a good bet to maintain his production and not collapse too. While Safeco may make his offense look worse, I’d absolutely show him the money.
I wonder why we haven’t heard much about the Yankees having interest in him though. They can afford to replace Damon with him, and that park wouldn’t kill him.
The Yankees took on a lot of money last year, won the WS, and they are probably making the playoffs this season Holliday or not
So the incentive for them to spend isn’t there
True. But they can afford it and that would make them video game good.
Hopefully the reasons you stated kind of take them out of the bidding, leaving us, the Sox, Cards, and Mets. With the Yankees out of the bidding, his price could go down…a little…
but you see...
The Yankees payroll is STILL what it used to be (~200 Million), and they’re being smarter with their money. They currently only have about 180 Million on the book with the acquisitions they’ve made, and they’re bound to spend at least 20 Million more.
Avatars make the site look pretty. I still don't have one.
The Rangers are also apparently getting the Orioles Rule 5 pick in the Millwood deal.
FUCK THE DBACKS!
If the Orioles picked from themselves, then yes.
"Ever tried? Ever failed? No matter. Try again. Fail again. Fail better." - Samuel Beckett http://mvn.com/marinersminors/
by JY on Dec 9, 2009 8:57 PM PST up reply actions
The Astros are still retarded:
Ken Rosenthal of FOXSports.com reports that reliever Brandon Lyon’s deal with the Astros is worth $15 million over three years.
And also:
According to Dave O’Brien of the Atlanta Journal Constitution, the Braves and Rays could finalize a deal for Rafael Soriano on Thursday.
ESPN.com’s Buster Olney wrote on Wednesday afternoon that the Braves are expecting a “solid return” for Soriano, despite the monstrous salary that awaits him via arbitration. We’ll see if the Rays decided to buck up; they certainly have the prospects to spin a trade.
FUCK THE DBACKS!
Haha.
That fits on so many great levels that I now can’t wait for him to join one of the networks and make awkward comments like he is the next incarnation of Jon Miller.
If Brad Pitt is playing Beane who do you want playing you?
JD: Eddie Guardado.
Fortunately we may never hear from the guy ever again.
He appears to have worked his way out of baseball entirely.
He was fired at ESPN for having an affair with a 22-year employee.
He left the Mets and ESPN on bad terms. I can’t imagine anyone in baseball or the media hiring his ass again. He’s a schmuck and everyone knows it.
And the commercial where he said he “discovered” David Wright doesn’t help.
Wait...
A 22-year employee of ESPN? He was having an affair with Peter Gammons?
Fans are typically idiots.
by The Typical Idiot Fan on Dec 9, 2009 10:07 PM PST up reply actions 1 recs
This week on "Outside the Lines"...
Scandal hits ESPN. Two employees were recently discovered to be having an affair. One, former GM and current ESPN analyst, Steve Phillips. The other is…me?
I will smash your face into a jelly.
I knew about the affair, didn't know he got fired
My Mariners blog - SodoMojo, Twitter Feed, Fuck the fucking Angels!
As far as I can tell no, they signed one and traded for one
Jose Valverde declined arbitration, even though he made $8M and would have gotten more. I think Houston lucked out here.
LaTroy Hawkins signed with the Brewers for 2/7.5, pending physical. He’s also 37 on Dec 21. Not really a big deal to lose him, either.
Then they traded for Matt Lindstrom and signed Lyon to this deal apparently. Lose relief aces and you must regain relief aces. Everyone knows this.
Might as well put Beltre in a Red Sox uniform now:
Ken Rosenthal of FOXSports.com reports a preliminary agreement is in place that would send 3B Mike Lowell to Texas and C Max Ramirez to Boston.
According to Rosenthal, the deal is only waiting on approval from Boston ownership. The Red Sox have agreed to eat nearly all of the $12 million remaining on Lowell’s contract to acquire the 25-year-old Ramirez, who carries a .299/.398/.486 batting line in 1,800 minor league at-bats.
FUCK THE DBACKS!
Why do people keep enabling the Rangers?
This is bullshit.
"Ever tried? Ever failed? No matter. Try again. Fail again. Fail better." - Samuel Beckett http://mvn.com/marinersminors/
by JY on Dec 9, 2009 9:25 PM PST up reply actions
My favorite part is how the team with no money is making the kind of moves that we,
the team that everybody seems to think has tons and tons of money, should be making.
FUCK THE DBACKS!
That's what I was getting at, but thanks for spelling it out.
"Ever tried? Ever failed? No matter. Try again. Fail again. Fail better." - Samuel Beckett http://mvn.com/marinersminors/
by JY on Dec 9, 2009 9:33 PM PST up reply actions
It goes both ways.
There’s no way the Rangers could afford Lowell given their financial troubles, but they’re getting him for free, basically so Boston can run out and get Beltre. I don’t know which pisses me off more really, that the Rangers are repeatedly getting better when they should be paying for their mistakes, or that the Red Sox are positioning themselves to get Beltre.
"Ever tried? Ever failed? No matter. Try again. Fail again. Fail better." - Samuel Beckett http://mvn.com/marinersminors/
by JY on Dec 9, 2009 9:36 PM PST up reply actions
I can agree to both these terms.
I’d also prefer that it not be Anaheim.
"Ever tried? Ever failed? No matter. Try again. Fail again. Fail better." - Samuel Beckett http://mvn.com/marinersminors/
by JY on Dec 9, 2009 9:52 PM PST up reply actions
Wait hold on
Andrus, Young, Lowell, Kinsler for SS, 3B, and 2B? Young to first?
Huh
Lowell seems to have had an uncharacteristically bad year at 3rd in 2009. Injury?
I don't understand why the Rangers would trade away Ramirez away for a guy is old and injury-plagued.
And they already have Michael Young at 3B. Where do they plan on using Lowell? This just doesn’t make any sense for the Rangers.
1B? Young to 1B?
It seems like a waste of resources, but Lowell’s a decent player. It seems like there’s a decent chance he gets hurt, though. At least, I hope so.
Lowell...
would presumably be the right handed DH and would spell Michael Young at 3B and Chris Davis at 1B. He would also bring some zesty post season experience for the youngsters or whatever voodoo people believe about veteran baseball players. All I know is Maximiliano Ramirez won’t be embarrassing Jeff Mathis and inspiring greatest in his homeland as a Texas Ranger any longer.
Sorry he also will make you guys hate Beltre.
by ghostofErikThompson on Dec 9, 2009 9:47 PM PST up reply actions
Yes! We have to match or exceed the number of moves of everyone in the division
That’s why its a hot stove LEAGUE amirite?
De Gutibus non disputandum est
by Bearskin Rugburn on Dec 9, 2009 10:43 PM PST up reply actions
Disgusting
Many people in the game seem to consider Kennedy a low-ceiling, run-of-the-mill right-hander, a view the Diamondbacks do not share.
“He’s 89-93 (mph),” Byrnes said. "He has four pitches. He has a sub-2.00 ERA in the minors. He was a Friday night starter at USC. His first stint in the big leagues was dominant. He pitched well in the (Arizona) Fall League.
“If that’s a generic talent,” he concluded, “there’s more pitching out there than I realized.”
FUCK THE DBACKS!
We should talk about how much he strikes out
And that we’re pretty sure he’s a loser.
Wasn't he a former Sox front office guy? From the Dan O'Dowd through Theo Epstein chain?
I can’t even remember any of his good moves now.
I remember when Dayton Moore was supposed to be good too.
"Ever tried? Ever failed? No matter. Try again. Fail again. Fail better." - Samuel Beckett http://mvn.com/marinersminors/
by JY on Dec 9, 2009 9:54 PM PST up reply actions
I remember those first few moves and being like..
“wow that’s stupid/crazy…I wonder what he’s setting up with that…because he’s smart…right?”
I fucking hate you Mariners
Remember when Daniels was terrible?
Actually he’s still mostly a mixed bag I guess but today he’s fuckin killing me.
De Gutibus non disputandum est
by Bearskin Rugburn on Dec 9, 2009 10:42 PM PST up reply actions
Good moves(In my opinion)
The Javier Vazquez trade
The Danny Haren trade
The Jose Valverde trade
The 2nd Randy Johnson trade
Uhhhhhhhhhhh, I’ve got nothing else.
FUCK THE DBACKS!
Yeah, that's pretty gross.
And it’s pretty lucky Dan Haren pretty much turned into an ace instead of remaining a #2.
I'm not scared of Mike Lowell
Avatars make the site look pretty. I still don't have one.
He uses the parts to augment his beard
by abender20 on Dec 9, 2009 9:42 PM PST up reply actions 1 recs
Great, whenever I think of Lowell I'm going to picture a Sasquatch now
Thanks man.
Seriously though, I doubt he decides to go Vlad on us. Who knows, with their injury history Lowell and Harden could be out by May.
Carlos Silvelite
Who's afraid of the Big Bad Lowolf?
I’m not afraid of the Big Bad Lowolf!
How can you be scared of a man with one testicle
De Gutibus non disputandum est
by Bearskin Rugburn on Dec 9, 2009 10:40 PM PST up reply actions
Always be wary of someone with less to lose than you.
It's hard to convince people to let you eat them if you're an asshole. - Thingray
by Faux on Dec 10, 2009 12:16 AM PST up reply actions 3 recs
agreed
Avatars make the site look pretty. I still don't have one.
I'd prefer Branyan
Avatars make the site look pretty. I still don't have one.
by perfectstrat on Dec 9, 2009 10:38 PM PST up reply actions
What are people's thoughts about Carlos Delgado?
What kind of deal can we expect him to get?
If we can't get Nick Johnson or re-sign Branyan he'd be a nice consolation prize.
I’d still rather have Johnson and Branyan swap 1B/DH duties, though.
Is that the light at the end of the tunnel, or the headlights of an oncoming train?
We are unphased by an uglier cat hitting us in the fucking eye?
FUCK YOU HARDEN.
by Mariner John on Dec 9, 2009 11:56 PM PST up reply actions
That cat is way more nonchalant about being batted in the face than I would be
THERE WOULD BE BLOOD.
Heyyyy we got Texeira from the Yankees today!
Kanekoa Texeira….. in the Rule V draft..
by seattlesundevil on Dec 10, 2009 6:30 AM PST reply actions
(obligatory "it's 5 not V!" aneurysm)
"Ever tried? Ever failed? No matter. Try again. Fail again. Fail better." - Samuel Beckett http://mvn.com/marinersminors/
by JY on Dec 10, 2009 7:36 AM PST up reply actions
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