It's final... hopefully.
Welcome to Seattle, Chone.
about 2 years ago
wyte_lightning
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Yep.
If that’s not exclusively based on the last guaranteed year of his deal, it worries me a bit.
by Aaron Campeau on Dec 4, 2009 7:40 PM PST up reply actions
Aren't they usually based on the year prior?
I don’t know a lot about vesting options but I figure this one will be PA-based, and if Figgins isn’t very good in 2013, he won’t get a lot of PAs.
by Jeff Sullivan on Dec 4, 2009 8:08 PM PST up reply actions
I think i remember
that the CBA limits what can trigger a vesting option so it can be PA-based but can’t be based on many performance metrics.
by Edgar for Pres on Dec 5, 2009 1:06 PM PST up reply actions
Doubt the vesting option is anything to worry about
They aren’t dumb enough to give him a realistic shot at a 5th year
If he's still playing well...
in year 4, they can’t sit him just to avoid his option vesting. The MLBPA will file a grievance, and they’ll win.
And if he's blocking their better prospects (Triunfel, Ackley) at the positions he usually plays you could probably get away with relegating him to a utility role and limiting his PA's that way
But again if he’s still capable of doing close to what he’s doing now in 2013 then letting the option vest wouldn’t necessarily be a bad thing.
If he’s bad at that point and it would be a bad thing they won’t let it happen.
He will probably still make for a pretty good utility guy, I would hope.
2009 Safeco Field Record: 6-0 ; Overall Safeco Field Record: 10-4
Didn't Jose Vidro or someone similarly useless have a vesting option?
And didn’t we not allow that to vest?
"Ever tried? Ever failed? No matter. Try again. Fail again. Fail better." - Samuel Beckett http://mvn.com/marinersminors/
by JY on Dec 4, 2009 7:46 PM PST up reply actions
Yes, Yes
Determined, Jonesing Commentor | Proud proprietor of Wyomingroutes.org & Washingtonhighways.org
Yes.
And like Jeff said, the vesting occurs in the year prior to the vesting year. And as far as I have seen, its always PA-related.
Vidro’s was 450 PA appearances, I believe. Maybe 400. Somewhere in that range. Makes me shudder to think we allowed him to bat so much knowing it would cost us 6 million dollars more.
With Bavasi, this was something that we could legitimately question.
In Zduriencik’s case, I think that there’s more than enough evidence to prove that if he doesn’t want the option to vest, the option will not vest.
"Ever tried? Ever failed? No matter. Try again. Fail again. Fail better." - Samuel Beckett http://mvn.com/marinersminors/
by JY on Dec 4, 2009 9:48 PM PST up reply actions
Oh, and Figgins' vesting option is rumored to be about 9 million.
Thats alot to spend for a guy who likely will start to nosedive in the 4th/5th years of the deal.
It tells me that if he isn’t consistently doing then what he is doing now, its essentially a 3 year deal (lack of playing time in year 4, thus the option doesn’t vest—-elimintating year 5).
Not sure what this positive thinking is, but I like it. The deal, too.
Yay!
Whats up with the option? Will this be a team option?
Sort of
They can keep the option from vesting by not letting him reach the required number of plate appearances in 2013.
Not really
It makes good sense. If he’s not playing well enough in 2013 to bring him back for 2014 at the same price (slightly cheaper in year-to-year dollars with inflation), he probably isn’t playing well enough to deserve a ton of PAs.
It’s a safeguard against being stuck with a guy coming off a significant injury or well into the decline phase of his career, but makes the player happy because if he continues to perform (and what player doesn’t expect that of themselves?) he’s got a 5/45 contract.
Rooting for lovable losers since 1984.
by seattlecougar on Dec 5, 2009 10:48 AM PST up reply actions
I'm either drunk or warming up to this deal
I assume it’s the latter.
Welcome to Seattle, Chone! May you make many great plays at 2nd base
Determined, Jonesing Commentor | Proud proprietor of Wyomingroutes.org & Washingtonhighways.org
by Corco on Dec 4, 2009 8:10 PM PST reply actions 1 recs
You're just trying to piss SB off now, aren't you?
Say it with me: Washington Capitals. Capitals.
Preserved In All His Greatness - R.I.P. The Reignman 1989 to 1997
So
you’re not sure if you’re drunk??? It doesn’t take a scientist to tell I’m drunk.
by chrisisasavage on Dec 5, 2009 3:59 AM PST up reply actions
I knew I had ingested a large amount of alcohol, but I did not feel drunk, so yeah, I needed a scientist
Determined, Jonesing Commentor | Proud proprietor of Wyomingroutes.org & Washingtonhighways.org
Good FA tend to do well against former teams.
Beltre is going to hit like a dozen HRs a year off us if he goes to the Angels. It will be awesome and stupid at the same time.
Me three.
Determined, Jonesing Commentor | Proud proprietor of Wyomingroutes.org & Washingtonhighways.org
Daniel Cabrera?
He’s as big a piece of #2 as a starter comes.
Also, that’s begging for a Bartolo Colon joke, isn’t it?
by chrisisasavage on Dec 5, 2009 4:03 AM PST up reply actions
Oh no you di'int!
Say it with me: Washington Capitals. Capitals.
Preserved In All His Greatness - R.I.P. The Reignman 1989 to 1997
He was up there in stealing though
My Mariners blog - SodoMojo, Twitter Feed, Fuck the fucking Angels!
by gregrabble on Dec 4, 2009 9:25 PM PST up reply actions 17 recs
This is seriously what I love about LL. I basically stopped trying to be funny here because it rarely went over well,
But I get one opportunity to make an easy, racist joke, so I take it, and it’s green. I love it.
My Mariners blog - SodoMojo, Twitter Feed, Fuck the fucking Angels!
Well, they don't run a bus route between home and first.
What do you expect him to do?
by Matthew on Dec 4, 2009 10:39 PM PST up reply actions 10 recs
Live in White Center?
Rooting for lovable losers since 1984.
by seattlecougar on Dec 5, 2009 10:49 AM PST up reply actions 1 recs
Although this certainly makes me feel better
My Mariners blog - SodoMojo, Twitter Feed, Fuck the fucking Angels!
I'm hoping Beltre accepts arbitration (I realize it won't happen)
I would love to see Beltre and Figgins in the infield
Determined, Jonesing Commentor | Proud proprietor of Wyomingroutes.org & Washingtonhighways.org
I'm hoping we throw Beltre a lot of curveballs low and away
I will, however, miss his infectious smile. Too bad he was a complete fucking moron at the plate. Also, I will miss antics like this:

by JLC on Dec 4, 2009 10:18 PM PST up reply actions 2 recs
I personally think more players should do this.
Especially outfielders when they know they can’t get to a homerun.
...and now I'm here
It would still be considered a home run if they did this and the ump determined it would have gone out
I used to think this would be cool too and wondered why players didn’t at least try; a friend corrected me by showing me in the rule book where if they did and hit the ball and the ump thought it was out, they would still rule it a home run.
Ah
So this is why they need a week-long umpire camp. I’m assuming the perfect logic behind this rule is that a hat weighs less, and is thus less likely to impede the path of the ball?
Rooting for lovable losers since 1984.
by seattlecougar on Dec 5, 2009 10:54 AM PST up reply actions
Jesus fuck they hava a rule for everything.
And yet a rule book this thorough doesn’t bother to point out that the home team can’t change the rules. Unbelievable.
...and now I'm here
by CapSea on Dec 5, 2009 12:29 AM PST up reply actions 2 recs
This was my first thought as well
Rooting for lovable losers since 1984.
by seattlecougar on Dec 5, 2009 10:54 AM PST up reply actions
Yeah, I'm really not liking this vesting year. At all. It's pretty stupid actually.
"you don’t drive in runs with base on balls."
~gitanoloco
So ok, if you aren't planning on his option vesting because you think he is going to such in year 4, then why goes 4 years, much less 5???
"you don’t drive in runs with base on balls."
~gitanoloco
I would venture to say...
it’s less about the M’s worrying about it vesting, and more about Figgins expecting it to vest. I’m sure Figgy doesn’t expect to suck late in his career, so naturally the vesting year is an incentive for him to sign giving the M’s leverage without guaranteed cash. If he sucks down the line, we take the proper measures to make sure it doesn’t vest. I just don’t see the problem there.
Totally agree with you
In the interest of trying to refute my own argument, the only thing I can think of is that with his versatility he’s going to be a lot harder to keep out of the lineup than Vidro was. Give him 350 PAs through August and then (insert 2B/3B/LF here) goes down in the midst of a pennant race? It’s a lot easier to find a stopgap at DH to keep Vidro on the bench.
Rooting for lovable losers since 1984.
by seattlecougar on Dec 5, 2009 10:58 AM PST up reply actions
If he sucks he won't play, then you don't have to worry about year five
If he’s good then we get to keep him. I don’t see what the problem is.
Doesnt anyone think
That they overpaid for him?
Id say to the tune of about $6 million (on the generous side).
I think its a great pick up, but at what price. There is a TON of luck in his previous WAR. As Jeff mentioned he has great line drive rates but 1 year where that luck comes down and a step is lost due to age, and he loses a game or two on offense and one on defense.
Of course, if he repeats his 09 season the contract pays for itself.
Free agent wins generally cost about 4.5 million each
He was worth 6.1 wins in 2009. If he repeated that highly unlikely performance, he’d be worth 27.45 million dollars. In one year.
He needs to be worth 2 wins above replacement to be worth 9 million a year. With the exception of 2006, he’s never been worth less than that. We expect him to be worth ~3 wins, making this contract at least valuable, with upside. Again, we expect him to be worth less than half his value in 2009, and it’s still a good deal, and there’s upside, and it fills a need, and he can play multiple positions.
It’s not a spectacular contract by any means. What it is, is a contract that makes sense. Whenever you pay free agents, unless they are extremely high risk, a “contract that makes sense” is considered a win.
...and now I'm here
Yes
As much as we talk about spending efficiently, the fact is that it is very difficult to land a player at much below his value. If you pay a player $9M a year to produce 2.5 wins a year, you are getting a good deal as an MLB club—you’re basically paying 80% of what the player would cost in a perfectly efficient market.
I think Figgins has +3-4 win value next season. CHONE predictions have him at .340 wOBA, which is about 4 runs. He’s a great base runner. Add 2 more runs. He’s a solid defender. 7 runs. He plays third base, 2.5 runs. 20 runs for replacement level, and that adds up to 35.5 runs, or 3.5 wins.
Great deals with Free Agents come in the form of someone way out-performing reasonable projections. It’s is impossible to know which free agents will do this. Moreover, since free agents are relatively old players, it’s pretty rare for them to breakout.
He was probably worth closer to 7 wins last year if you consider baserunning.
Baseball Prospectus had him at +7.2 runs on the bases, Fangraphs at 7.4. If you were to project him at 4 WAR next year, his value would be around $17 MM. Even if he underperforms or ages more quickly than expected, you have to assume some salary inflation in the coming years and he’ll likely still be worth the contract even if it vests for the 5th year.
I can’t see this as being anything but a steal for the M’s.
by nathaniel dawson on Dec 5, 2009 1:59 PM PST up reply actions
It feels so good to be an M's fan right now
This sure beats the Christmas Presents Bavasi gave us every year

by chrisisasavage on Dec 5, 2009 4:15 AM PST reply actions 7 recs
J/M/G
Do you project Figgins as our #2 batter? That seems the best spot for him to bat.
Say it with me: Washington Capitals. Capitals.
Preserved In All His Greatness - R.I.P. The Reignman 1989 to 1997
I project that Wak will make that decision.
I can affirm that 2 seems the best spot for him, but as far where he actually bats…
If Ichiro will let it happy Figgins should bat leadoff.
Imagine the holes on the right side of the infield for Ichi to slap the ball through.
Imagine the less opportunities for Ichiro to hit infield singles.
Infield singles are a major part of Ichiro’s game and his ability to reach 200 hits each season. I don’t think he will be batting anywhere but lead off.
Ichiro's average is actually much higher...
…with runners on first. So maybe he should bad 2nd.
Where are you getting this?
B-R has Ichiro with a .331 average with no one on and .331 with a man on first, BABIP slightly higher w/ no one on
It's a little wrong to say a tomato is a vegetable, it's very wrong to say it's a suspension bridge
Yeah well what do they know?
I want to poop at your house - Thingray
by tootthekazoo on Dec 5, 2009 11:44 AM PST up reply actions
Baseball statistics since 1871?
It's a little wrong to say a tomato is a vegetable, it's very wrong to say it's a suspension bridge
Pffffft
I want to poop at your house - Thingray
by tootthekazoo on Dec 5, 2009 11:47 AM PST up reply actions
I was using three years splits...
…on ESPN. Your numbers look better though.
As soon as this deal went down my first thought was the possibility of clubhouse
friction between Figgy and Ichiro over who was the better lead-off batter and who should bat where in the order. They are both All Star lead-off men with the pride and ego to go with it. It just seems it could lead to some friction.
The 2009 Pregame Picks Winner and Iron Man of Halos Heaven.com
You're from Halos Heaven?
That surprises me.
by abender20 on Dec 5, 2009 12:31 PM PST up reply actions 1 recs
Yeah, I don't know much about baseball.
I guess that’s I thought it seemed silly to speculate on stuff like that, but that’s just my inexperience.
by abender20 on Dec 5, 2009 12:54 PM PST up reply actions 3 recs
That's what they were yapping about on the radio this morning.
Griffey / Figgins / Ichiro tickle trifecta.
Probably at least 4 or 5
He’s a hall of famer and deserves the chance to hit a 5 or 6 run Dinger
I want to poop at your house - Thingray
by tootthekazoo on Dec 5, 2009 11:38 AM PST up reply actions 2 recs
It's probably the best spot for him
He hits more line drives and fly balls than Ichiro and thus will ground into fewer double plays.
You could also argue...
…that Ichiro gets more hits, so Figgins can go from first to third. Or, if Figgins steals 2nd Ichiro hits turn into runs, rather than if Ichiro steals 2nd, Figgins walks turn into 1st and 2nd.
Any chance that will negatively affect his base stealing?
Or having him on in front of Ichiro might avoid some of Ichiro hitting into fielders choice?
'Havoc' and 'playable' will be the words of the year.
I still couldn’t be happier with Dave Sims
He's fantastic, and Niehaus sure sounded happy this season. Nice to hear.
More interviews from Sims would be great as well.
J/M/G/K
You forgot “K” there. I assume you wanted my opinion as well.
I project Figgins as batting second in the lineup. No one’s moving Ichiro from lead-off.
by katal on Dec 5, 2009 11:43 AM PST up reply actions 8 recs
But what if Ichiro decides to be a power hitter now?
by Dewey N on Dec 5, 2009 12:24 PM PST up reply actions 2 recs
Then he needs to be the DH and bat fourth, obviously
The only question is if he’s old enough.
My bad.
Say it with me: Washington Capitals. Capitals.
Preserved In All His Greatness - R.I.P. The Reignman 1989 to 1997
What if
Beltre accepts arbitration???
by shhh...I'm lurking on Dec 5, 2009 7:17 PM PST reply actions
We have really good defense at 3rd again?
He plays 3rd, and Chone moves to 2nd?
by msb on Dec 5, 2009 7:39 PM PST up reply actions
Then we have the raddest defense of all time.
Ichiro, Gutierrez, Saunders, Beltre, Wilson, Chone, whoever? That’s like 5-6 WAR from the defense of 6 starting players. Fill in the runs added by backing them up with some combo of Hannhan/Hall/Langerhans/Tui/Wilson, and an average 1B/C and we could see 10 WAR from fielding alone.* That’s twice as much as non-M’s/Rays team from last year.
*Griffey DH’s only.
To me that's ideal
Determined, Jonesing Commentor | Proud proprietor of Wyomingroutes.org & Washingtonhighways.org
I suddenly <3 Chone Figgins
I can’t wait to watch a giant slap hitting douche that pisses off everyone else play on our team
Determined, Jonesing Commentor | Proud proprietor of Wyomingroutes.org & Washingtonhighways.org
We already have a slap hitter that pisses off everyone else.
Ichiro just doesn’t meet your douche qualification.
Say it with me: Washington Capitals. Capitals.
Preserved In All His Greatness - R.I.P. The Reignman 1989 to 1997
Fuck me.
That’s two reply fails this week. I’m off my game.
Say it with me: Washington Capitals. Capitals.
Preserved In All His Greatness - R.I.P. The Reignman 1989 to 1997
That's why Ichiro is awesome
He can wreak havoc without pissing everyone off. Sean Figgins can’t do that; he’ll actually piss everyone off, and that’s good enough
Determined, Jonesing Commentor | Proud proprietor of Wyomingroutes.org & Washingtonhighways.org
I'm calling him Desmond.
Desmond is a badass name and I don’t understand why he decided to go by a variance of his middle name.
Ichiro consistently fouling off ball four pisses me off, I just don't say anything about it.
It’s not going to change anything so why bother.
So this is what our roster looks like at present, right?
(L) RF Ichiro
(S) 3B Chone Figgins
® 2B Jose Lopez
(L) 1B Russell Branyan
® CF Franklin Gutierrez
(L) DH Ken Griffey Junior
® SS Jack Wilson
(L) LF Michael Saunders
® C Adam Moore
® UT Bill Hall
(L) UT Jack Hannahan
(L) OF Ryan Langerhans
® C Rob Johnson
® 3B-2B Matt Tuiasasopo
1. RHP Felix Hernandez
2. RHP_________(Rich Harden?)
3. LHP Ryan Rowland Smith
4. RHP Brandon Morrow (or trade him for a 2B?)
5. RHP Ian Snell
RHP Carlos Silva
LHP Luke French
RHP Doug Fister
LHP Jason Vargas
RHP David Aardsma
RHP Shawn Kelley
LHP Nick Hill
RHP Sean White
Aumont? Fields?
And no, I’m not fixing the copyrights.
Ugh. Forgot to mention that too. I'm off my game.
I’d still be fairly confident that the M’s and Branyan will work something out too, but if he’s really dead set on getting more than one year, it’s going to take a while. He’s going to have to hit the market, feel the cold sting of rejection, and realize that the M’s were being fair. He’s just too risky to give a mutli-year deal too.
Maybe better than 50-50 is a bit strong, after re-reading Jeff’s piece from Thankgiving-ish about Branyan, but I thought that prospects for a deal with Branyan have risen slightly since then. Maybe I’m just imagining things.
No, I think it's pretty much unanimous that it would probably be a shock if Branyan didn't return
I don’t see anyone giving him 2 years and he said he’d sign with Seattle for less. 1 year guaranteed, 2nd year with a vesting option just makes a lot of sense.
From HH, hope Figgy has good years in Seattle (except the games against us)
Treat him well. We’re really REALLY going to miss him. :(
The Big Red Machine V.2 is coming this Fall 2009. Go Halos!
Thanks he drove me nuts as an Angel so I guess
I’ll get to like him as a Mariner. Hope he ages well.
De Gutibus non disputandum est
by Bearskin Rugburn on Dec 6, 2009 8:34 AM PST up reply actions
We will. If you guys love Adrian like we do (particularly Red), maybe we don't need to be enemies after all.
Red, by the way, is this man. Read about him here.
Beltre has declined arbitration
Per Jim Bowden on Twitter. Take that with a toolsy grain of salt.
Noooooooo-oh fuck it, we all knew this was coming.
"Ever tried? Ever failed? No matter. Try again. Fail again. Fail better." - Samuel Beckett http://mvn.com/marinersminors/
by JY on Dec 6, 2009 5:01 PM PST up reply actions
So do we start the Beltre appreciation thread when he officially declines arbitration
or when he signs with another team?
by JLC on Dec 6, 2009 5:48 PM PST up reply actions
I'd go with now.
Because if he signs with the Angels it will be much harder to appreciate him.
"Ever tried? Ever failed? No matter. Try again. Fail again. Fail better." - Samuel Beckett http://mvn.com/marinersminors/
by JY on Dec 6, 2009 6:06 PM PST up reply actions
Booo
I may have to start disliking Beltre depending on his landing, but I’ll never warm up to Figgins. No former Angels, unless they’ve had a few teams in between to become better people.
It's hard to convince people to let you eat them if you're an asshole. - Thingray
I dunno, Seattle fans warmed right up to Washburn and Speizio
Shouldn’t be a problem.
FUCK THE ANGELS!
by Fuckmikereilly on Dec 6, 2009 10:34 PM PST up reply actions
People warmed up to Speizio?
I guess that was pre-LL days, but I just assumed everyone hated him. I always loathed him. Actually I always hated Washburn too.
Offensive jokes are allowed on the condition that they're funny
This isn’t good enough
by Graham MacAree on Dec 7, 2009 8:56 AM PST up reply actions
I guess I was trying to reference what he had said
here. I guess I didn’t do so well. My bad.
2009 Safeco Field Record: 6-0 ; Overall Safeco Field Record: 10-4
by Fin on Dec 7, 2009 9:02 AM PST up reply actions
I'd rather we get a somewhat equivalent player and they just leave the division.
It's hard to convince people to let you eat them if you're an asshole. - Thingray
But what you have to consider is not only what's good for us, but what's more brutal for Angels fans
I like it this way.
They aren't going to notice one annoying player leaving from the rest of the roster that's still there.
It's hard to convince people to let you eat them if you're an asshole. - Thingray
I really do not understand the concept of hating a good player that comes to the M's from a rival,
or any team that you hate for that matter. It also seems a little contradictory to say that you may hate Beltre if he goes to the Angels but you can’t warm up to Figgins coming to Seattle. It seems like taking a good player from a team you hate would be a positive thing. I guess this is one of those times where logic is overridden by emotion, but I don’t understand the contingent that don’t like the move based on their opinion of the player. Personally, winning is the only thing that matters.
People don't have to understand.
Baseball is one of the few things that I actually allow emotion to affect my perception of.
It's hard to convince people to let you eat them if you're an asshole. - Thingray
I hope Beltre lands in a place where the fans appreciate him.
The last game of the year was awesome for sure, but it made me sad the poor send off that Beltre received after years of great service.
I hope he rejects arb, comes back for peanuts, and remembers how to hit.
You should dream a little higher.
I bet right now Figgins is coughing...
aaaaaaaaaand now he’s a Mariner.
So since Beltre is officially gone, I'd take it this is going to be official in the morning?
"you don’t drive in runs with base on balls."
~gitanoloco













