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Around SBN: The Worst Team Ever Projected?

Chone Figgins Bullet Points

I'm kind of jumping the gun here, which I know I could easily regret should this whole story fall apart - nothing is yet official - but the language around the rumor is strong and now's when I have some time, so, onward. If the Mariners don't end up signing Figgins, then boy will there be egg on my face, but whatever. I'll take the risk.

  • Remember that this rumor just popped up for the first time last night. All of a sudden, out of nowhere, the Mariners went from potential fit to leading contender to being on the verge of a contract. Things happen fast in the offseason. Rumors that are slow to develop and drag out almost never come to fruition, unless they involve Erik Bedard.

  • It's been suggested several times in the past that being a sports fan is nothing more than rooting for laundry. This could end up being the ultimate test of that hypothesis, as the Mariners' signing one of the most hated Angels opens the door for the Angels to sign one of our most beloved Mariners. Speaking for myself, I already know I'm going to welcome Figgins with open arms, and I know that Beltre in LAnaheim would become a target of derision, and I can't even imagine how I would explain that to me in 2008, or Me in 2006. Sports do funny things to people. How you feel about a team seldom changes, but how you feel about a player can reverse itself at the drop of a hat, like how you feel about a laptop.

  • This team ranked #1 in infield hits and #4 in bunt hits before adding Figgins. With all the contact, the infield hits, the bunts, the speed, the defense, and the lack of power, the Mariners have to be the odds-on favorite to be baseball's most annoying team in 2010. We liked to joke around that this team played Angels baseball a year ago, but now they're taking it to a whole other level. We're going to win at least, I dunno, 80 games, and fans of the other teams are never going to know how they lost. It's going to be embarrassing, and awesome.

  • A lot of people are going to focus on the fact that Figgins has hit just nine home runs over the past three seasons. "The Mariners need power!" they'll say. "You can't score runs if you don't have power!" Don't listen to those people. Teams don't need power. They need production. Production is measured by wOBA. Figgins is a pretty safe bet to post a good wOBA. Remember, wOBA isn't misleading - it's a direct measure of the things players do to produce runs. A player with a wOBA of .340 and 30 home runs will be just as valuable offensively as a player with a wOBA of .340 and 5 home runs. Power is one way to generate offense, but it is one way of several, and Figgins will help this offense.

  • Rosenthal predicted a deal around $36m/4yr and Jon Heyman just said $35m/4yr, so that seems to be where it's settling. The only thing that troubles me about this deal is the fourth year. Four years is a long contract for a guy that turns 32 next January. But remember, long-term contracts only really become a major issue when they pile on top of one another. Last year, thanks to Bill Bavasi, the Mariners had huge money tied up in guys like Kenji Johjima, Miguel Batista, Carlos Silva, and Jarrod Washburn, The year before had all the same guys, plus Richie Sexson and Jose Vidro. Stacked together, those contracts have been a serious impediment. However, as of now, Figgins is the only commitment made for 2013. He's the only one on the books. So even if he declines and becomes a significantly less valuable player, then as long as Zduriencik is smart about the rest of his transactions, Figgins' contract won't pose much of a problem. Not that it would be fine if he started to suck or anything, but it wouldn't kill us. No single mid-level contract can really hurt a team with as much money as the Mariners.

  • At ~$9m a season, Figgins is getting paid like a ~2-win player. Fangraphs says he's been worth 11.6 wins over the past three years despite not playing in 97 total games. Figgins is better than a two-win player, which makes this the rare free agent contract that looks like a value from the beginning. Coming into the winter, the Mariners knew they had to be efficient with their money in order to turn this team into a winner. Getting a 3+ win player at a 2-win price is a positive step. Figgins isn't a bargain, but he's arguably the best reasonable fit for the position, and we got him at a better price than you'd expect. That's neat. It's a good enough deal to make up for the lost draft pick.

  • I scheduled a week-long vacation to the East Coast, beginning tonight, that's going to keep me away during the winter meetings. At first I felt guilty, since everybody loves the winter meetings, but then I started to get excited about the freedom. That said, even with my excitement, I'm thrilled that what will likely be the Mariners' biggest move of the offseason is getting ~done before I leave. Really alleviates the guilt.

  • Figgins is a switch-hitter, which just makes me so damn happy, but it's worth noting  that his numbers are far better from the left side. He's not worthless as a righty, and his ability to draw a walk keeps him productive, but he does have a platoon split.

  • Dave talked about it yesterday, but one of the advantages Figgins presents over Beltre is that his versatility gives the team a lot of options. He's probably going to end up playing third, but because he can play third, second, and in the outfield, he leaves the FO with some flexibility as they work out what to do about Jose Lopez and how much trust they should put in Michael Saunders. Figgins? Bill Hall? Jack Hannahan? Matt Tuiasosopo? Could this team be more versatile? They have so much flexibility that it's borderline annoying.

  • I mentioned it in yesterday's comment thread, but don't get too worked up over Figgins' crazy defensive numbers last season. He's not a +15 player at third. He's more like a +5. He's good, but he's not Beltre-good. Textbook example of how you need more than one year of defensive data to reach a conclusion.

  • Figgins led the AL in walks last year. I've mentioned it before, but Figgins drew more unintentional walks in 2009 than Jose Lopez has drawn in his career. For those of you who grew tired of Beltre swinging his way out of at bats, Figgins couldn't have a more different approach. Figgins swings at about 37% of pitches. Beltre swings at about 52%. About 79% of the pitches Figgins swung at last year were in the zone, as opposed to Beltre's 66%. His discipline is a big part of what allows him to succeed despite having so little power. Discipline and ability to make contact.

  • I don't know if it's real or scoring error, but Figgins has consistently posted line drive rates well above the league average. 24% for his career. His career BABIP on all three major types of balls in play - grounders, fly balls, and line drives - is also better than the league average. 

  • Figgins loves to run, but he's no Ichiro. His career SB success rate of 74% is close to the break-even point. It'll be interesting to see if he's just naturally aggressive, or if a change in coaching staffs will make him a little more selective on the basepaths. Not that he necessarily needs to be. He'll get caught a lot, but as long as he's north of 70% or so, he's helping.

  • Something like $16m or so left to find a starting pitcher, a first baseman, and a DH. Assuming Branyan at $5-6m or so, the Mariners will still have some room to work with. They could make a play for Rich Harden and fill 1B with a cheap trade, or they could put more resources towards 1B and settle for something less sexy on the mound. I'd expect the former.

  • No Chone Figgins name jokes. They're stupid. Anybody who makes a Chone Figgins name joke is stupid. Knock it off.

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Comments

Display:

Geeze, I hope this deal actually gets done

This is sure a lot of talking about something that hasn’t been confirmed in any way yet.

That said, I’d be happy to have him aboard

I want to poop at your house - Thingray

by tootthekazoo on Dec 4, 2009 1:57 PM PST reply actions  

I really hope this gets done.

Part of it is that I like Figgins as a player a lot, and the other part of it is that I just want something to FUCKING HAPPEN

My Mariners blog - SodoMojo, Twitter Feed, Fuck the fucking Angels!

by gregrabble on Dec 4, 2009 1:59 PM PST reply actions  

What will Sodo Mojo post on if nothing happens?

they’re not exactly known as the beer blog of the Mariners blogosphere

by seattlebruin on Dec 4, 2009 2:05 PM PST up reply actions  

That has been part of it

However we’re working on something pretty giant right now, so there’s no shortage of work to do

My Mariners blog - SodoMojo, Twitter Feed, Fuck the fucking Angels!

by gregrabble on Dec 4, 2009 3:03 PM PST up reply actions  

I'm always impatient

I can’t stand the first 2 months of the off season

My Mariners blog - SodoMojo, Twitter Feed, Fuck the fucking Angels!

by gregrabble on Dec 4, 2009 2:23 PM PST up reply actions  

I can handle the first two months.

It’s the dead period from mid-January to mid-February that gets me, as there are few deals going down and Winter League baseball is pretty much done.

"Ever tried? Ever failed? No matter. Try again. Fail again. Fail better." - Samuel Beckett http://mvn.com/marinersminors/

by JY on Dec 4, 2009 2:28 PM PST up reply actions  

And everyone starts with the spring training fluff bullshit

“But Carlos Silva is in the best shape of his life and has a renewed attitude!”

by seattlebruin on Dec 4, 2009 2:29 PM PST up reply actions  

"Pitcher uses new grip to create dominant pitch!"

"Ever tried? Ever failed? No matter. Try again. Fail again. Fail better." - Samuel Beckett http://mvn.com/marinersminors/

by JY on Dec 4, 2009 2:36 PM PST up reply actions  

Well, for me, I'm much more of a Mariners fan right now than I ever have been in the past

So there’s a real good chance I’ll hate that time period as well.

My Mariners blog - SodoMojo, Twitter Feed, Fuck the fucking Angels!

by gregrabble on Dec 4, 2009 3:10 PM PST up reply actions  

I'm all for bringing him in to replace Beltre.

Remember the M’s nickname commercial? Where they try to come up with a nickname for Randy Winn.

“This is the guy who came up with Cammy, Nelly, and Shiggy…that’s right…and Shiggy.”

And now…Figgy

by Heydude on Dec 4, 2009 1:59 PM PST reply actions  

Rooting for laundry...

…was that whole observation started by Seinfeld, or has that been going on long before Jerry Seinfeld became a major star?

by Slica on Dec 4, 2009 2:15 PM PST reply actions  

I'll be so damn happy if this happens

Jeff, i don’t think I’ve ever seen you write so many positive stuff about one person before.

by C-Nage on Dec 4, 2009 2:16 PM PST reply actions  

Finally a player Drayer can stand tall next to ;-)

Seriously i love Ms. Drayer, but have you ever stood next to her? She’s amazingly short. Made my 5 foot 1 wife feel really tall for the first time in her life :-)

by hiskeyd on Dec 4, 2009 3:43 PM PST up reply actions  

.

one reason they likely won’t announce it, as they have to wait on Beltre’s arbitration decision. She said AB told her that he didn’t really care where he played — he wants to get to the playoffs

by msb on Dec 4, 2009 2:46 PM PST up reply actions  

But that pronunciation/spelling is rooted in Gaelic

“Chone” has no non-English etymology to justify the weird spelling

Determined, Jonesing Commentor | Proud proprietor of Wyomingroutes.org & Washingtonhighways.org

by Corco on Dec 4, 2009 3:24 PM PST up reply actions   1 recs

There's always justification!

That’s “ch-” from Champagne and “-one” from Gone. Duh, man

I want to poop at your house - Thingray

by tootthekazoo on Dec 4, 2009 3:26 PM PST up reply actions  

They actually named him Desmond DeChone so....

I’ll call him “D.D.”

SHOW FiFi THE MONEY!!!!

by PositivePaul on Dec 4, 2009 2:56 PM PST up reply actions  

Although I didn't do it to be creative

I have a child with a less commonly spelled version of his name that everybody mis-pronounces and/or mis-spells. So, I kindly say to you “fuck off.”

I want to poop at your house - Thingray

by tootthekazoo on Dec 4, 2009 3:37 PM PST up reply actions  

You should have a child with a really funny name that people bully him for

That way he either grows through all of the adversity to become an amazing human being or snaps, goes on a rampage, and you don’t have to worry about college

by Graham MacAree on Dec 4, 2009 3:38 PM PST up reply actions  

Good call. I'll name my next boy "Sue"

And then he’ll grow up all tough and write a song about it

I want to poop at your house - Thingray

by tootthekazoo on Dec 4, 2009 3:42 PM PST up reply actions  

I actually had this discussion on Wednesday night

I think it would be cool to name your kid “Truck.”

I want to poop at your house - Thingray

by tootthekazoo on Dec 4, 2009 3:46 PM PST up reply actions  

TRUCKASAURUS!

I will smash your face into a jelly.

by Phil Hatzenbuehler on Dec 4, 2009 3:46 PM PST up reply actions  

See? Perfect for him when he's in college

How bitching would that name be? And when he’s acting like a douchebag while in college he can ask the ladies if they want a Truck fuck

I want to poop at your house - Thingray

by tootthekazoo on Dec 4, 2009 3:48 PM PST up reply actions  

My former co worker (and WSU soroity girl)

Said she made out with a guy named truck and later that night her BF got truck’d by him.

abender20 hates freedom.

by Scruffy Lefty on Dec 4, 2009 3:51 PM PST up reply actions  

This is disgusting

Determined, Jonesing Commentor | Proud proprietor of Wyomingroutes.org & Washingtonhighways.org

by Corco on Dec 4, 2009 4:45 PM PST up reply actions  

People always assume I make a typo with my kid's name and call him Evan instead of Eyan

Fuck, that pisses me off. That also happens with my last name, like when people ask for Mr. Bell

I want to poop at your house - Thingray

by tootthekazoo on Dec 4, 2009 3:49 PM PST up reply actions  

He'll get that plenty

Lucky though, because that is almost always an indicator that it is a solicitor on the line

I want to poop at your house - Thingray

by tootthekazoo on Dec 4, 2009 4:15 PM PST up reply actions  

Evan is a badass name.

At least I think it is. Can’t go wrong either way.

by Wilder. on Dec 4, 2009 4:39 PM PST up reply actions  

I understand that my last name is uncommon and that mispronunciations are going to happen.

Generally it doesn’t bother me all that much, especially when people make the mistake of over pronunciation because at least then I know they’re trying. When people pronounce the -peau as “pow” or add letters (which happens all the time, my favorite being “Cap-e-no” I want to stab them.

by Aaron Campeau on Dec 4, 2009 7:58 PM PST up reply actions  

KU basketball has a guy named

Markeiff

has to be in the discussion

by Freneau on Dec 4, 2009 3:53 PM PST up reply actions  

My favorite trend is Ja, De, La

Take a completly common name and just one of those to the front. For example: JaMarcus, DeMarcus, LaMarcus, LaMicheal.

by arbeck77 on Dec 4, 2009 3:57 PM PST up reply actions  

Somewhat related

my sister went to HS with a set of Vietnamese triplets named Anh, Thu and Thuy.

by Aaron Campeau on Dec 4, 2009 8:00 PM PST up reply actions  

No, no, college basketball has always been the elite for name...Markeiff is like second tier.

While we’re still waiting for the next SirValiant Brown, Exree Hipp or Scientific Mapp, we’ve got a guy at Siena named Just’In-love Smith, a guy named Bak Bak at Cal, and Alibaba Odd at Delaware state.

by marc w on Dec 4, 2009 5:39 PM PST up reply actions  

Isn't Graham's idea just the gist of Johnny Cash's "A Boy Named Sue?"

I know less about country music than anyone alive, but that still popped into my head. The idea isn’t exactly old.

by Decatur on Dec 4, 2009 4:11 PM PST up reply actions  

Yeah, see my comment above

I want to poop at your house - Thingray

by tootthekazoo on Dec 4, 2009 4:16 PM PST up reply actions  

Except for the not worrying about college part

I never thought about it from that angle, and that tips it

Determined, Jonesing Commentor | Proud proprietor of Wyomingroutes.org & Washingtonhighways.org

by Corco on Dec 4, 2009 4:20 PM PST up reply actions  

I have a really funny name that people bullied me for

But I’m still a pretty shitty human being and I’m currently attending college.

by I Lick Squirrels on Dec 4, 2009 7:54 PM PST up reply actions  

Uncommonly spelled or uncommon names with actual etymology are okay.

Fake names or names-that-aren’t-names are not. But they’re not my kids so I don’t really care all that much.

by Aaron Campeau on Dec 4, 2009 7:53 PM PST up reply actions  

I don't have a problem with it

It’s just stupid when you get yelled at for mispronouncing a name like ‘Chone’ when you’ve never been exposed to it before. As if you are magically supposed to be able to read the intended pronunciation without help.

by Gihyou on Dec 4, 2009 3:42 PM PST up reply actions  

I hope we don't face Grienke next year

I don’t know if he’s fully recovered mentally, and I’d hate for the Mariners to be responsible for a backslide.

by Gihyou on Dec 4, 2009 4:03 PM PST up reply actions  

Four years is lengthy.

But for me, that’s kind of eased by Chone Figgins versatility of playing LF and several IF positions. If he falls off the cliff by the fourth year he’s at worst what, an expensive backup utility player? Better than being an anchor blocking a particular position.

by ThundaPC on Dec 4, 2009 2:53 PM PST reply actions  

This is why I don't mind the 4th year

It’s not like he’s gonna be like Sexson or Vidro and block a position where we could easly find someone better for.

by IceStormV1 on Dec 4, 2009 2:56 PM PST up reply actions  

Ah, dammit

Missed the guidelines; I’m stupid already. :/

"Let this big fucker come in and walk the world here." - Dave Niehaus on JJ Putz

by section331 on Dec 4, 2009 3:17 PM PST reply actions  

I don't think Figgins plays all 4 years in Seattle.

JackZ will trade him as soon as the young guys fill the holes. If Saunders(LF), Achley(2B), and Triunfel(3B) all fill their ML positions by the end of 2012; Figgins will be flipped for a few prospects. My guess is he is on the team for 2 or 3 years, but not 4.

I just don’t see the 4th year happening. If the rookies are all on track to break camp by 2013, Figgins will be in the role of utility/bench player. Even the very best utility players don’t usually get paid 10 million by a smart club.

Whatever, probably foolish to make guesses for several years down the road, since there are a lot of varibles.

by mark sobba on Dec 4, 2009 3:30 PM PST reply actions  

And this might actually be doable

The best laugh I had all day was hearing that the Angels are working “very hard” at moving Gary Mathews Jr. At almost $12M a year for the next two, this is going to be a shit ton of work, so that’s good news for Angels fans. It’s also nice to know that they have their very own Carlos Silva.

At $9-10, Figgins should contact should be moveable if the M’s head that route.

by philosofool on Dec 4, 2009 3:38 PM PST up reply actions  

That sounds even more like a hobbit name

Than his already does…

"Let this big fucker come in and walk the world here." - Dave Niehaus on JJ Putz

by section331 on Dec 4, 2009 3:41 PM PST up reply actions  

Haaaaahahahaha

Sounds like a Hobbit name, which is fitting since he is short (and yes I know he’s taller than me but he is shorter than almost all of his peers so yeah)

I want to poop at your house - Thingray

by tootthekazoo on Dec 4, 2009 3:59 PM PST up reply actions  

is the value that huge?

not a terrible potential contract or anything, but I’m not sure there’s a ton of value in it either… seems like more or less, the M’s are getting what they are paying for

considering that a big chunk of Desmond’s value is in his defense, which we would assume is a still hidden or undervalued part of a player’s FA value, I’m a little surprised Dr. Z isn’t getting more of a bargain here

by Freneau on Dec 4, 2009 3:41 PM PST reply actions  

fair enough...

his defensive #s are all over the place, but it was nearly 50% of his value last season (according to WAR)

by Freneau on Dec 4, 2009 3:45 PM PST up reply actions  

I can't imagine anyone expects him to repeat his defensive performance from last year

It’s a fluke, and the Mariners know it. They’re paying him to get on base, play a position competently, and annoy the hell out of everyone else

by Graham MacAree on Dec 4, 2009 3:46 PM PST up reply actions  

In 3000 innings at 3B since 2007

Figgins is about +21 runs according to UZR. That works out to roughly 9.5 runs/150 games. 3000 innings is quite full seasons, but I think based on this evidence, we can an UZR/150 of 7.5 is a good estimate.

by philosofool on Dec 4, 2009 3:57 PM PST up reply actions  

I'd go with +5 runs from defence

That’s not much value compared to his bat

by Graham MacAree on Dec 4, 2009 4:05 PM PST up reply actions  

I'm not so sure--

He’s averaged about +7 runs offensively for his career. I’d have to think his defense might be a bit better than that — maybe more like +8. He’s providing roughly equal value there without considering a positional adjustment.

by nathaniel dawson on Dec 4, 2009 4:32 PM PST up reply actions  

Figgins has been 32 runs above average the last three years

People know he can hit a little. He’s not exactly Endy Chavez. I don’t think the value here is huge, but we did better than I thought we could on the FA market.

by Jeff Sullivan on Dec 4, 2009 4:04 PM PST up reply actions  

Carp and a AAAA players with potential would be a cost effective combo

for 1B. Something along the lines of Steve Pearce or Josh Whitesell would be interesting now that Jake Fox was grabbed by the As. They could also grab DH time when Griffey or whoever they sign, is not DHing. Hannahan would be in their also if you want to send Carp of the AAAA player down for depth.

by tdot mariner fan on Dec 4, 2009 6:29 PM PST reply actions  

There's that whole "not wanting a lineup with three rookies" thing.

Carp is unfortunately not as highly thought of as Tui/Moore/Saunders

"Ever tried? Ever failed? No matter. Try again. Fail again. Fail better." - Samuel Beckett http://mvn.com/marinersminors/

by JY on Dec 4, 2009 7:29 PM PST up reply actions  

It's interesting the difference in how LL and HH are taking this news

You guys seem pretty happy about this happening, while most of us over at Halos Heaven are basically saying “good riddance”.

I think the Angels will miss him, but I understand why so many are not disappointed he’s leaving…Brandon Wood. A lot of us feel it’s time for Wood to get his shot at a full-time job, and Figgins is blocking that.

I had hoped he signed with Philadelphia, not another AL West team.

by WiHaloFan on Dec 4, 2009 7:32 PM PST reply actions  

Well really,

At the absolute worst at $9 Million a year we get a guy who can play multiple positions in a pinch. We’re talking between 0 and +1 win here. Chone Figgins projects to be a +3 to +4 win player in 2010 and we’re paying him to be a +2 win player next year and beyond. We’re basically paying Figgins to be average and anything above that is gravy.

I kinda got a kick out of those in HH suggesting that this contract will hurt us in the long run, though. We’re currently paying $12 Million a year for a jolly greasy fat guy for the next two years. We’ll actually be in better shape financially towards the end of Figgins’ contract.

And just last year we had Silva, Batista, Johjima, AND Washburn sucking up +$40 Million of the payroll.

Welcome aboard, Chone.

by ThundaPC on Dec 5, 2009 1:59 AM PST up reply actions  

So...

Brian Fuentes
Matt Palmer
Joe Saunders
Jeff Mathis
GMJ
Torii Hunter
Macier Izturis
Kendry Morales
Reggie Willits
Erick Aybar
others?

by Decatur on Dec 5, 2009 4:21 PM PST up reply actions  

Are Mariners fans just really smart?

Or are Angels and Rangers fans just really dumb? Some of the stuff they’re saying over there is laughable.

Carlos Silvelite

by OceanBird on Dec 4, 2009 11:03 PM PST reply actions  

It's better if you just don't read their stuff.

But for fairness’ sake there are plenty of dumb Mariners fans too.

by OlSalty on Dec 4, 2009 11:20 PM PST up reply actions  

LL encourages smart people to participate and discourages stupid people from participating.

Like OlSalty says, there are plenty of stupid Mariners fans and plenty of smart Rangers/Angels fans.

by Aaron Campeau on Dec 5, 2009 12:36 AM PST up reply actions   1 recs

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