Navigation: Jump to content areas:


Pro Quality. Fan Perspective.
Login-facebook
Around SBN: Win or Lose, Boston Celtics' New Big 3 Era A Success

Rumor/News Thread

With the old thread buried and the holidays mostly over, it's time to start a new one of these bad boys. Quite a bit has happened actually.

Star-divide

So we've resigned Chad Cordero to a minor league contract as he continues to try to revive his career. I've never been much of a fan on account of his stuff doesn't seem good enough to be a ML closer, so best of luck to him and I hope to never see him in a Mariner uniform.

We've also signed Josh Bard, who batted .230/.293/.361 with the Nats  last year but was still worth more than Johnson (by .2 wins, in 10 more PAs). Bard boasts a career .312 wOBA - if you can boast about that - and projects to be a better hitter than Johnson, with Bill James predicting a .299 wOBA and ZiPS pegging him at .251/.320/.371 both over about 300 at bats.

Geoff Baker link

In ALW news,the Angels signed Fernando Rodney for 2/11M, presumably to keep Fuentes' 2011 option from vesting (based on games finished). Neither deal is a good one, so here's hoping Rodney gets torched early and forces Fuentes back into the closer role.

Also in ALW news the Rangers, seemingly embarrassed by their recent series of good moves (or non-moves), are moving quickly to rectify the situation by pursuing 33 year old Jon Garland. Best of luck, Daniels, he's an... uh... innings eater! And a veteran! 

Jeff Clement continues to struggle with injury, as the PIrates sent him to an instructional league to get time at first base but a strained oblique limited his time on the field. He seems headed to the minors to start the season, but will end up at first for them. Or maybe he'll split time with Doumit behind the plate, giving them two defensively questionable catchers with injury issues.

Well that's about it I think. Have at it.

Comment 420 comments  |  0 recs  | 

Do you like this story?

Comments

Display:

Didn't Jack say that there were going to be some surprises upcoming?

I went by an M’s team store today and saw that Cliff Lee will be wearing #36.

Batted .393/.614/.464 for 2009 Diablos, #5 in OBP for PSSBL Rocky Division.

by Two Rs and Two Ls on Dec 28, 2009 6:00 PM PST reply actions  

The only one they don't have a number for now is League.

Bradley will be #15, Figgins #9, and Jack Wilson switches to #2.

by BrettJMiller on Dec 29, 2009 9:14 AM PST up reply actions  

Adam Kennedy

If we end up trading Lopez, anyone else like him as a budget-saving 2B? Probably much cheaper than Hudson, despite just having a resurgent offensive season.

FUCK THE ANGELS!

by Fuckmikereilly on Dec 28, 2009 6:36 PM PST reply actions  

There's almost no chance we trade Lopez at this point

The reason there are so many adequate replacements for Lopez on the market is the exact reason his trade value isn’t very good.

by OlSalty on Dec 28, 2009 8:13 PM PST up reply actions   2 recs

Well uh...at least it's not as bad as Brandon Lyon or Fernando Rodney
Diamondbacks signed RHP Bob Howry to a one-year, $2 million contract with a $3 million club option for 2011.
Howry, 36, posted a 3.39 ERA, 1.15 WHIP and a 46/23 K/BB ratio in 63 1/3 innings with the Giants this year. He’s just as reliable as some of the other relievers who’ve landed multi-year contracts this winter and should do just fine in a setup role for the Diamondbacks next season.

Also, neat…I guess

The Diamondbacks expect to hear in the next couple of days whether Kelly Johnson has accepted their contract offer.
The proposed deal is believed to be worth around $2 million. Johnson is exploring other options but is unlikely to find a better situation than Arizona, where he will start at second base. The 29-year-old hit just .224/.303/.389 with eight home runs and 29 RBI this past year.

So, Edwin Jackson, Bow Howry, and Kelly Johnson. Exciting!

All Hail Zduriencik!

by Goose on Dec 28, 2009 8:25 PM PST reply actions  

I'd love to have Kelly Johnson for that price

Seriously, his BABIP was just .249 last year, he’s due to bounce back to his normal self.

by OlSalty on Dec 28, 2009 8:32 PM PST up reply actions  

No way?

The angels are jumping ship.

by Kirk on Dec 28, 2009 9:42 PM PST via mobile up reply actions  

As a reliever no less

although I gather he’ll make a little more money if he starts for em.

De Gutibus non disputandum est

by Bearskin Rugburn on Dec 28, 2009 9:47 PM PST up reply actions  

If only so people stop saying that the Mariners never won anything with Griffey and Randy

It would make a nice, feel good movie too. (or maybe a comedy)

This Summer… a team in desperation… is turning to their former superstars… to put them back in contention
The only thing standing in their way… is the worst player in baseball.

by Janic on Dec 29, 2009 1:57 AM PST up reply actions  

Lets bring Edgar and Buhner out of retirement too.

They can play left and right bench.

2009 Safeco Field Record: 6-0 ; Overall Safeco Field Record: 10-4

by Fin on Dec 29, 2009 12:11 AM PST up reply actions  

Yes.

...and now I'm here

by CapSea on Dec 29, 2009 12:21 AM PST up reply actions  

I just want to retire #51 twice.

Batted .393/.614/.464 for 2009 Diablos, #5 in OBP for PSSBL Rocky Division.

by Two Rs and Two Ls on Dec 29, 2009 2:01 AM PST up reply actions  

JASON BAY SIGNS WITH THE M'S!!!!!

Well…the Mets that is:

According to WFAN’s Mike Francesca, the Mets have signed Jason Bay and completion of the deal is only pending a physical.
Mets sources have informed Francesca that Bay’s contract will be finalized early next week. It’s not yet clear what the exact financial terms are, though the Mets’ latest rumored offer was worth $65 million over four years. If they stuck to their guns, it seems like a fine pickup. Bay, 31, hit .267/.384/.537 with 36 home runs, 119 RBI and 13 stolen bases in 531 at-bats this past season and will add considerable pop to the Mets’ 2010 lineup.

All Hail Zduriencik!

by Goose on Dec 29, 2009 11:48 AM PST reply actions  

Joel Sherman twitter says:
Can confirm that #Mets have agreement with Bay for 4 at $66M with easy vest for 5th year

All Hail Zduriencik!

by Goose on Dec 29, 2009 11:52 AM PST up reply actions  

Thank fucking God

Now the retards can shut the fuck up about him

My Mariners blog - SodoMojo, Twitter Feed, Fuck the fucking Angels!

by gregrabble on Dec 29, 2009 5:02 PM PST up reply actions  

Says who?

I’m sure they had no intention of signing Bay for the amount he got from NYM, but Baker’s reports paint a pretty clear picture that they would have at least considered bringing him on board for the right price.

And yes, I’m willing to go with Baker on this one…

by tait644 on Dec 30, 2009 11:47 PM PST up reply actions  

I'd like to think that the front office would consider bringing any useful player on board at the right price

but nothing this FO has done leads me to believe they were ever seriously considering Bay a realistic option.

by Aaron Campeau on Dec 30, 2009 11:52 PM PST up reply actions  

The FO has stated several times that their reported interest in Bay was "overblown"

I would wager a silver sixpence that Baker was one of the people overblowing it.

And their willingness to sign a player to a contract far below market value doesn’t mean they had serious intention to acquire that player. On the contrary, it’s basically “We value you so, so much less than most other teams out there that we’d only be willing to pay you peanuts to play here”. Most players aren’t too keen on getting an offer that’s just downright disrespectful compared to what they think they’re worth. It was never going to happen.

by OlSalty on Dec 30, 2009 11:58 PM PST up reply actions  

I have complete faith in Zduriencik to properly value Bay

And as such, it’s no stretch whatsoever to think he would have pursued Bay had he had the inclination that Bay was willing to come to Seattle for that price.

Contrary to what gregrabble said – nobody is a retard for entertaining the idea of bringing Bay on board. Perhaps you may have some mental issues if you think 4/66 or 5/80 is a good deal for the team, to be sure, but Bay could have brought value to this team.

by tait644 on Dec 31, 2009 12:08 AM PST up reply actions  

Maybe classifying them all as retards was a bit much, but literally nothing has pissed me off more this off season than having to explain to numerous people why signing Jason Bay was a bad idea.

The fact remains that he was never a good fit for the Mariners, and the people claiming otherwise were the people undervaluing defense and overvaluing home run power.

My Mariners blog - SodoMojo, Twitter Feed, Fuck the fucking Angels!

by gregrabble on Dec 31, 2009 2:45 AM PST up reply actions  

This is sort of like saying we'd be interested in signing John Lackey for 3 years/$10M

Yes we would, but who the fuck cares. Bay wasn’t coming to Seattle for 3/$24.

by Graham MacAree on Dec 31, 2009 9:36 AM PST up reply actions  

3/24

Is that what was offered?

by tait644 on Dec 31, 2009 10:13 AM PST up reply actions  

I don't think it was that low

My understanding, though, is that any offer would have been for three years and significantly below the $15/year Boston offered.

by Graham MacAree on Dec 31, 2009 10:40 AM PST up reply actions  

Because they didn't?

Not any serious intention, anyways, at his price.

by OlSalty on Dec 30, 2009 11:12 AM PST up reply actions  

That's right

My Mariners blog - SodoMojo, Twitter Feed, Fuck the fucking Angels!

by gregrabble on Dec 30, 2009 4:01 PM PST up reply actions  

Just today Baker's blog discusses the FO's involvement with Bay

He was an option.

But thank goodness we’ve got a GM who doesn’t fork over 16 MM+ for him…

by tait644 on Dec 31, 2009 12:10 AM PST up reply actions  

Given how tight-lipped the FO, take this with a grain of salt

Again, Bay isn’t a good fit for the team, but I have no doubt we had SOME interest in the guy.

by tait644 on Dec 31, 2009 9:27 AM PST up reply actions  

Yeah, yeah -

Which leads us to the inevitable conclusion that you take everything with a grain of salt.

Including what is posted here, no?

by tait644 on Dec 31, 2009 10:11 AM PST up reply actions  

SALT THE SNAIL!

I will smash your face into a jelly.

by Phil Hatzenbuehler on Dec 31, 2009 12:44 PM PST up reply actions  

It's probably okay to stop shouting.

Of course the team had some degree of interest in Bay, but it would go against everything we’ve seen from them to pay him at the rate other teams were willing.

by abender20 on Dec 31, 2009 10:18 AM PST up reply actions  

But he has a Beat writers check list!

- Canadian Born
- Northwest Canada even!
- Live in Seattle!
- Wants to play here!
- Team has need for LF
- Beat Writer wants more “pop” in lineup.

by Scruffy Lefty on Dec 31, 2009 12:46 PM PST up reply actions  

Christ 5/80M

that’s a lot of dough for a 3 win player.

De Gutibus non disputandum est

by Bearskin Rugburn on Dec 30, 2009 2:33 PM PST up reply actions  

Were the Mets hot on Delgado before?

Otherwise I don’t see how they two are related, really.

De Gutibus non disputandum est

by Bearskin Rugburn on Dec 29, 2009 6:49 PM PST up reply actions  

Well, there is now one less player available.

So yes, our chances increase.

...and now I'm here

by CapSea on Dec 29, 2009 9:47 PM PST up reply actions  

This kind of thing doesn't usually carry any weight

but it made me happy nevertheless:

Hideki Matsui is confident he can play the outfield next season.
Via the AP/Rotoworld.
I am also confident you can play the outfield Hideki. You should insist on it, in fact.

De Gutibus non disputandum est

by Bearskin Rugburn on Dec 30, 2009 8:24 AM PST reply actions  

Uribe resigns with the Giants.

One year deal, option for 2011. Wonder who will be more productive next year, DeRosa/Uribe or Figgins/Hall?

De Gutibus non disputandum est

by Bearskin Rugburn on Dec 30, 2009 9:34 AM PST reply actions  

Bill Hall and Juan Uribe are as close to identical

as we are gonna find for these type of guys. Actually now that I look a little closer, Uribe strikes out a lot less but its pretty much the same general thing going on with those two.

by Edgar for Pres on Dec 30, 2009 10:57 AM PST up reply actions  

I hated Liriano so much in 2006

I remember a handful of people proclaiming Liriano the real King, and Felix as a piece of shit, or something along those lines.

Carlos Silvelite

by OceanBird on Dec 31, 2009 1:06 AM PST up reply actions  

I actually kinda liked the whole Liriano vs Felix thing. It was starting to create a pretty neat rivalry between the two.

The first two matchups were pretty heavily hyped and both were pretty good games. Too bad that Liriano couldn’t hold up his end of the bargain.

All Hail Zduriencik!

by Goose on Dec 31, 2009 9:44 AM PST up reply actions  

As I understand, a tRA in the 4's isn't terrible.

So low-5’s isn’t incredibly atrocious or anything…13 pitchers had a FIP lower than 3.25 last year…only four pitchers had a tRA lower than 3.25 last year. I think Graham said something about tRAs being higher in general than FIP, so a 5.28 tRA is not as bad as a 5.28 FIP.

by BrettJMiller on Dec 31, 2009 12:51 PM PST up reply actions  

Plus people can change

He didn’t do great last year but he may or may not be able to do better next year. I’m not sure I’m optimistic about him returning to what he was or even close. When evaluating him though, I think using last year’s performance as the way you predict his future should be discounted since he is so high risk/high reward. Truthfully I have no idea how Liriano will do next year or the year after that. There is way too many unknowns. All I am trying to say is that it wouldn’t surprise me if both his ERA and tRA dropped a full run or if his ERA dropped and his tRA jumped up.

by Edgar for Pres on Dec 31, 2009 12:56 PM PST up reply actions  

Also he had a higher BB rate

So basically:
Higher fastball velocity
Increased swinging strikes
Decrease walks
oh and while we are at it, increase ground ball rate to what it was before.

Basically Liriano needs to get better at everything.

by Edgar for Pres on Dec 31, 2009 2:13 PM PST up reply actions  

Yep exactly.

The only way its predictive is that it tries to measure the current talent level of a pitcher. Its as predictive as a batter’s wOBA.

by Edgar for Pres on Dec 31, 2009 2:10 PM PST up reply actions  

The problem with not using the player's past performance to predict what he will do is that you could then say that for every player.

That would be like saying that just because Yuni had a couple bad years (much like Liriano) he will turn it around and be as good as he was in his debut season. It’s not going to happen. Also the injury risk is huge for a guy like him. He got hurt, has lower velocity and a lot less control because of that, and is now much less effective. I personally don’t want any part of him. Too much potential to do terribly.

by Kirk on Jan 2, 2010 1:52 AM PST up reply actions  

I agree and I also never said Liriano would be great again

I am also a little confused. You don’t like the idea of getting Liriano at all because you think he either won’t be good or will be hurt however if we replace Lopez with Hudson then you are ok with it? You must really hate Lopez or think Hudson is better than I do because in my mind the upgrade from Lopez to Hudson is maybe 0.5 wins. You are gonna pay for that too. If you don’t think Liriano is good then why give up Lopez.

Also, why don’t the Twins just sign Hudson and keep Liriano?

by Edgar for Pres on Jan 2, 2010 11:46 AM PST up reply actions  

The more I think about this Liriano for Lopez trade

The less sense it makes for the Twins. They are selling low on Liriano. Lopez is a decent player but isn’t fantastic. There are a ton of 2B on the market right now that are pretty good and should come cheaply. The only way I see this trade going through is if the M’s give up something like Saunders and Lopez for Liriano.

by Edgar for Pres on Jan 2, 2010 11:48 AM PST up reply actions  

Saunders by himself has a tonne more trade value than Liriano

What is it with people and massively underselling Michael Saunders?

by Graham MacAree on Jan 2, 2010 6:50 PM PST up reply actions  

I'm not saying the M's should do this

but I think its gonna take significantly more to get Liriano than Lopez. Lopez and Saunders is probably too much.

I would just be amazed to see the Twins sell low on Liriano and get something like Lopez in return. There isn’t too much of a point for them to do that.

by Edgar for Pres on Jan 2, 2010 8:55 PM PST up reply actions  

Why? Liriano has never thrown more than 140 innings in a season.

And he’s only had one amazing year versus many pretty bleh, injury racked ones.

by OlSalty on Jan 2, 2010 7:37 PM PST up reply actions  

Lopez hasn't had anything close to an amazing year

and has had his fair share of bleh ones. He’s a nice player to have on the team for cheap but I just don’t see the Twins valuing him enough to give up a player like Liriano when they could just snag one for cheap such as Kelly Johnson (who is gone now).

by Edgar for Pres on Jan 2, 2010 8:57 PM PST up reply actions  

He'd probably be a decent bounce back candidate

But he hasn’t been the same since he got injured and he’s not exactly shown a lot of durability.

by OlSalty on Dec 31, 2009 1:40 PM PST up reply actions  

With Holliday and Bay seemingly signed

does that deflate the market for Beltre at all?

I’d love for him to come back at a reasonable price, i just don’t know if those recent contracts help or hurt our chances of that.

I mean on the plus side, less teams will be looking for someone like Beltre, but on the minus side he makes a pretty decent consolation prize to both Bay and Holliday, with seemingly more reasonable contract demands as well.

just wondering about people’s thoughts on the matter

I'm always thinking one step ahead. Like a carpenter, that makes stairs. -The Office

by Jonny Somers-Harris on Dec 31, 2009 2:00 AM PST reply actions  

We already have Figgins. Why pay what little money is left to Beltre

who would essentially be replacing Lopez? You’re talking something like 8-10M for a .5-1 win upgrade. And while Lopez could be traded to someone the chances of getting a good piece in the market are slim. There have been posts about this on this site and USSM recently.

I like Beltre, but he doesn’t make any sense for this team, and this team doesn’t make sense for him.

De Gutibus non disputandum est

by Bearskin Rugburn on Dec 31, 2009 7:11 AM PST up reply actions  

But as far as market goes left fielders don't impact the 3B market that much I think. Boston remains interested in him,

and if they appear fine with eating all of Lowell’s salary. Anybody wanting to sign Beltre will be bidding against Boston.

De Gutibus non disputandum est

by Bearskin Rugburn on Dec 31, 2009 7:14 AM PST up reply actions  

From the "this is barely news" file:
Derrick Goold of the St. Louis Post-Dispatch reports that the Cardinals and free agent outfielder Matt Holliday are “working toward an agreement” that is “gaining momentum.”

According to sources with knowledge of the situation, progress is strong and a deal could be reached as early as next week. Terms of the current offer are not known, but Goold writes that it is potentially the largest contract ever offered by St. Louis, topping the $100 million extension given to Albert Pujols in 2004. The two sides have reportedly discussed a five-year guaranteed deal and an eight-year framework.

All Hail Zduriencik!

by Goose on Dec 31, 2009 8:12 AM PST reply actions  

So the Cubs have found Bradley's replacement.
The Cubs are close to a three-year deal with free agent outfielder Marlon Byrd, Ken Rosenthal of FOXSports.com reports.

The Cubs haven’t been alone in their pursuit of the 32-year-old outfielder, as the Yankees, Braves and Rangers have also expressed varied degrees of interest. Byrd earned $3.06 million last season with the Rangers, batting .283/.329/.479 with 20 homers, 89 RBI and 43 doubles. If a deal is completed, he would slot in as Chicago’s starting center fielder.

All Hail Zduriencik!

by Goose on Dec 31, 2009 9:54 AM PST reply actions  

The question is whether you believe Byrd had an off-year in defensive,

(went from having a UZR/150 of 10.6 in the outfield in 2008 to one of -2.3. He was even worse in CF with a UZR of -6.0) He also wasn’t all that great of a hitter and his bat will likely only get worse.

A Mariners fan in Seattle

by Coach Owens on Dec 31, 2009 10:10 AM PST up reply actions  

Eh.

With the exception of three days next June, the Cubs’ talent doesn’t affect us. No need to wish ill on their fortunes with Byrd.

by katal on Dec 31, 2009 10:36 AM PST up reply actions  

UZR numbers being what they are,

that actually means he was better in center. One year, small sample size, of course.

by nathaniel dawson on Dec 31, 2009 12:45 PM PST up reply actions  

And backloaded.

It’s going to be hilarious when they’re paying him $8 million and he’s costing them wins.

A Mariners fan in Seattle

by Coach Owens on Dec 31, 2009 10:36 AM PST up reply actions  

Orlando Hudson might be heading to the M's?
Second baseman Orlando Hudson(notes) has been named in a lot of rumors this off-season.
The Minnesota Twins supposedly had some interest. The Detroit Tigers reportedly are interested in having him replace the departed Placido Polanco(notes). Rumors had the Colorado Rockies after him but GM Dan O’Dowd denies it. The New York Mets supposedly want him if they can find another team to take 2009 team MVP Luis Castillo(notes) off their hands. And the Philadelphia Phillies also reportedly asked Hudson if he would switch to third before signing Polanco. Hudson apparently said no way.
Now it’s looking like the Seattle Mariners are interested in bringing Hudson to the Northwest, according to ESPN.

Source: Yahoo! Sports

by Mejeh on Dec 31, 2009 12:16 PM PST reply actions  

Dave Cameron's Twitter is where I first saw it

d_a_cameron
  
Rumor of the day – M’s kicking tires on Francisco Liriano. If there’s one team who Jose Lopez makes sense for, it is Minnesota.

by Tube on Dec 31, 2009 3:28 PM PST up reply actions  

For the 6 people out there holding out hope for Adrian Gonzalez, it's time to close the book on that fantasy:
Padres general manager Jed Hoyer told Amalie Benjamin of the Boston Globe that he isn’t looking to trade first baseman Adrian Gonzalez.
“A number of teams have inquired about him. I think we’re obviously willing to listen on anything, but he’s a great player, he fits our team, he fits our payroll structure very well,” said Hoyer. “So he’s certainly not a player we’re looking to move. I think that’s been the way we’ve addressed it all winter. Teams have inquired, but we’ve certainly said the same thing over and over: He’s not a player we’re looking to move.” The 27-year-old Gonzalez has been a popular name in trade rumors this offseason, especially in Boston, but it may serve Hoyer to hold out to find a Mark Teixeira-like return around the trade deadline. Gonzalez is a bargain over the next two seasons, owed $4.75 million in 2010 with a $5.5 million club option for 2011.

Also:

Tim Brown of Yahoo! Sports reports that free agent third baseman Adrian Beltre is close to choosing between two clubs.
Brown writes that the teams are on separate coasts and guesses that it could be either the Athletics or Red Sox. Both are logical fits, but Boston still has Mike Lowell in-house, as the proposed trade with the Rangers broke down after concerns about his right thumb emerged. Beltre, represented by Scott Boras, is believed to be seeking a multi-year contract worth around $10 million per season.

All Hail Zduriencik!

by Goose on Jan 4, 2010 10:13 AM PST reply actions  

Did Texeira really command that much in return?

Also, while Beltre going to the A’s would mean we would get to see him more, I hope he wouldn’t contract whatever bad luck Chavez has had down there at 3B.

by Edgar for Pres on Jan 4, 2010 10:24 AM PST up reply actions  

I don't see how the A's make any sense

with their budget and Eric Chavez. Angels would be a much more reasonable destination, though it pains me to say so.

De Gutibus non disputandum est

by Bearskin Rugburn on Jan 4, 2010 10:47 AM PST up reply actions  

They dont?

They had at least 45M go off the books in Guerrero, Escobar, Lackey, Figgins, and Oliver. They’ve signed Rodney and Matsui. Cot’s currently has them at 82M and change for next season, without accounting for any of the league minimum and arb eligible players (all of whom are in their first year of arby except Napoli). They’ve run payrolls of 114M, 119M, and 110M in the last three years.

They should have the money to pay Beltre 10M per, and still some left over to pick up one of Pineiro/Garland/Bedard/Sheets.

De Gutibus non disputandum est

by Bearskin Rugburn on Jan 4, 2010 11:18 AM PST up reply actions  

Oops the 82M is actually 83M

and for some reason doesnt include Rodney’s 5.5M. Still, they have six players hitting their first arbitration and Napoli going for some kind of raise from his 2M salary in 09. That shouldn’t add up to too much, and the Mariners have raised the bar on them.
]Not that I want Beltre playing there or anything… accepting Figgins was hard enough as it is.

De Gutibus non disputandum est

by Bearskin Rugburn on Jan 4, 2010 11:25 AM PST up reply actions  

Yeah, the only way they sign Beltre now is if they raise their payroll or manage to unload GMJ somehow

Both seem unlikely given the state of the economy and how bad GMJ is.

They might pull off some sort of trade to improve their rotation or something, but they’re probably not making any more major FA signings. Which is awesome for us.

by OlSalty on Jan 4, 2010 12:52 PM PST up reply actions  

Best part of that article

Reagins:

“But right now we feel really good about our team as it stands. With this acquisition today with Fernando Rodney, it really strengthens our bullpen and gives us not only a chance to contend but a chance to win a world championship.”
Yeah… no. For once, the Mariners actually look better than the Angels on paper, without any unwarranted optimism, and that’s without a 1B, C, or decent 3/4 starter. At least one, but maybe two of those should be added to the roster by winter’s end adding maybe 2-3 wins and bringing us to about 88-90.

De Gutibus non disputandum est

by Bearskin Rugburn on Jan 4, 2010 12:59 PM PST up reply actions  

Nope, I also think

there’s ~3 win upside there. And RRS is worth more here than in other parks/teams.

Still, because of what Beyond the Box Score calls ‘chaining’ the rotation is still the easiest roster spot to tack on wins, as we currently have projections of 6, 6, 2.5, 1.5, and ~0.5-1.

Signing a 2.5 win arm and an average 1B nets 2.5-3 wins no matter how you project Snell since you’re improving the Fister/Vargas/Olson/Hill/Feierabend/whoever spot at the back. It might be worth even more since it may end up improving the pen by pushing one of those guys into a long relief role.

De Gutibus non disputandum est

by Bearskin Rugburn on Jan 4, 2010 1:18 PM PST up reply actions  

Recovering from elbow surgery I guess

which I guess you knew about. Otherwise I can’t find anything on him since the 08 season when he was killing AAA hitters. He’s still plenty young and if the elbow surgery doesn’t cost him his command he could develop into a useful homegrown Washburn type.

De Gutibus non disputandum est

by Bearskin Rugburn on Jan 4, 2010 2:00 PM PST up reply actions  

Yeah at one point he was at least a little exciting

but never really took a huge step forward after getting to AAA. He’s interesting enough and hopefully recovers. I think Moyer has cursed many of us to have a soft spot for soft throwing control-LHP.

by Edgar for Pres on Jan 4, 2010 2:10 PM PST up reply actions  

From Twitter

 MikeSilvermanBB
  
Source: #RedSox not a front-runner and not currently in mix at all for free agent 3B Adrian Beltre #bh_sports 28 minutes ago from web Retweeted by MLBFanHouse and 8 others

by Tube on Jan 4, 2010 11:35 AM PST up reply actions  

Well they've at least made an offer:
According to Gordon Edes of ESPN Boston, the Red Sox have made an offer to free agent third baseman Adrian Beltre.
Edes reports that the A’s, Angels and Orioles remain in contention for Beltre. Agent Scott Boras is reportedly seeking a long-term contract worth more than $10 million annually. Boston’s pursuit is somewhat complicated by the voided Mike-Lowell-to-Texas trade. Lowell is owed $12 million in 2010.

All Hail Zduriencik!

by Goose on Jan 4, 2010 2:34 PM PST up reply actions  

Jim Bowden Tweets

that the Cards are close to completing a 5-6yr/98M Holliday deal.

De Gutibus non disputandum est

by Bearskin Rugburn on Jan 4, 2010 10:49 AM PST reply actions  

Multiple sources say that Beltre is close to choosing a team.

Per Heyman, it’s down to three teams. He says Boston for sure, maybe Oakland and a unknown third team. I’m going to go ahead and speculate that the third team is the Mariners. Even if he wouldn’t be all that much of an upgrade.

A Mariners fan in Seattle

by Coach Owens on Jan 4, 2010 11:55 AM PST reply actions  

Also, I found it interesting that Jack Z talked to the

Jays twice, once at the trade deadline and once the Winter Meetings, about acquiring Halladay. Thanks to Roy’s no-trade clause, it didn’t get very far.

A Mariners fan in Seattle

by Coach Owens on Jan 4, 2010 1:51 PM PST reply actions  

per Olney

after the Beltre deal is done, they are expected to trade him to Seattle, with 2 years left on his arbitration years. According to Olney, he hears from Edes that it would be for someone who could be Boston’s 4-5th outfielder. He says Francona feels that last year was a blip for Kotchman, and expects a rebound for him. He also says per other GMs, good move— short term risk, not a big contract, good defender.

by msb on Jan 5, 2010 1:32 PM PST up reply actions  

Good lord

their current guest is speculating we’re giving up cash to get Kotchman as well as a “major league role-playing” minor leaguer.

by BrianL on Jan 5, 2010 2:12 PM PST up reply actions  

Okay they've clarified

A minor league PTBL, MLB role player, and cash.

Bill Hall or Jack Hannahan?

by BrianL on Jan 5, 2010 2:16 PM PST up reply actions  

I hope it's Hall.

My Mariners blog - SodoMojo, Twitter Feed, Fuck the fucking Angels!

by gregrabble on Jan 5, 2010 2:17 PM PST up reply actions  

Also, he makes the most sense if we're sending cash.

He’s our only “Major league role player” that’s making significant money

My Mariners blog - SodoMojo, Twitter Feed, Fuck the fucking Angels!

by gregrabble on Jan 5, 2010 2:17 PM PST up reply actions  

I think you're right.

Hall seems to be the only role player that makes sense.

by BrianL on Jan 5, 2010 2:32 PM PST up reply actions  

I don't understand the cash part.

If they can afford Kotchman’s arbitration money, I’m not sure why they would pass on Branyan. Unless, of course, they like Kotchman a lot.

by JLC on Jan 5, 2010 2:27 PM PST up reply actions  

If we are moving one of our bench guys.

Does anyone else think they still might sign Branyan and just have Kotchman as a backup?

Or is this a pipe dream?

by Scruffy Lefty on Jan 5, 2010 2:45 PM PST up reply actions  

It may be possible that the Mariners are going after another LF/DH type

Someone like Luke Scott, or something. But right now Kotchman looks like the starting 1B.

by JLC on Jan 5, 2010 2:55 PM PST up reply actions  

Looks like our theoretical problem of "who wears #51?" has been solved:
@Ken_Rosenthal: Randy Johnnson to retire. Conference call moved to tonight to avoid conflict with Hall of Fame announcement tomorrow.

by xero3k on Jan 5, 2010 2:13 PM PST reply actions  

Just about to post this.

That sucks, but understandable. Not too many options left for the Mariners, though.

by JLC on Jan 5, 2010 2:15 PM PST up reply actions  

Gay.

End of an era.

My Mariners blog - SodoMojo, Twitter Feed, Fuck the fucking Angels!

by gregrabble on Jan 5, 2010 2:23 PM PST up reply actions  

He's a huge improvement over Carp

Carp is terrible

De Gutibus non disputandum est

by Bearskin Rugburn on Jan 5, 2010 2:39 PM PST up reply actions  

I guess it depends on what your definition of huge is.

He’s probably somewhere around a 1-1.5 win improvement over Carp. Significant improvement, but I wouldn’t say huge.

My Mariners blog - SodoMojo, Twitter Feed, Fuck the fucking Angels!

by gregrabble on Jan 5, 2010 2:46 PM PST up reply actions  

1.5 wins on defense alone is a huge improvement

I mean, ok, its a subjective modifier, but cases like Dunn and Pujols are exceptional. Most players will fall into the +10 to -10 range, and here you’re pretty much going from -10 to +10.

That said, I really wish Jack had done better here. If we hadn’t gotten Lee and Bradley I’d not care. But now something’s at stake, you know?

De Gutibus non disputandum est

by Bearskin Rugburn on Jan 5, 2010 2:55 PM PST up reply actions  

Well yeah, it's clearly a nice improvement over Carp. Whether or not it should be classified as "huge" doesn't really matter.

It’s an improvement, and right now, for this team, every improvement is big. I too would have preferred someone like Overbay, Scott, Branyan, etc., but I’m still not necessarily unhappy with this trade (depending on what we’re actually giving up, of course).

My Mariners blog - SodoMojo, Twitter Feed, Fuck the fucking Angels!

by gregrabble on Jan 5, 2010 3:00 PM PST up reply actions  

Sorry I don't mean to split hairs with you over adjectives

All I was trying to say was that while a 1 win improvement to a team is not much, but 1 win on defense is pretty big since the difference between the best and worst players is not huge.

De Gutibus non disputandum est

by Bearskin Rugburn on Jan 5, 2010 3:24 PM PST up reply actions  

Buh? From Baker.
Kotchman, 26, is a left handed bat with a career .406 slugging percentage and a decent — if not spectacular — .337 OBP

Emphasis mine. Explain to me how a .337 OBP is “spectacular”.

I will smash your face into a jelly.

by Phil Hatzenbuehler on Jan 5, 2010 3:07 PM PST reply actions  

I'm pretty sure he meant to say 'though not spectaular'

‘if’ means the same thing but can lead to this sort of confusion.

by Eyeball Kid on Jan 5, 2010 3:13 PM PST up reply actions  

Yes.

I read it the way I imagine Baker intended, but it could be written in a less awkward manner.

by Teej on Jan 5, 2010 3:14 PM PST up reply actions  

Yeah, that makes sense now.

It’s just not a clear way to convey that.

I will smash your face into a jelly.

by Phil Hatzenbuehler on Jan 5, 2010 3:49 PM PST up reply actions  

He was basically saying decent twice there.

He meant “if not spectacular” as in: Kotchman’s OBP, while not spectacular, was decent.

Probably just awkward wording.

angels fan in seattle

by Eyebrows on Jan 5, 2010 3:14 PM PST via mobile up reply actions  

Heyman with the Holliday news -

7 years 120M full no trade clause. I guess this means they have a chance to extend their Pujols now.

De Gutibus non disputandum est

by Bearskin Rugburn on Jan 5, 2010 3:11 PM PST reply actions  

Are you unhappy?

Seems perfectly fine to me. I mean, it’s a lot of years, but you’re paying him only a little more than Bay will get. I guess its not really fair to use Minaya as a yardstick.

De Gutibus non disputandum est

by Bearskin Rugburn on Jan 5, 2010 3:29 PM PST up reply actions  

I guess he could go all Vernon Wells on you

but it seems unlikely. Besides, there’s something else at play here, right? I don’t follow StL that closely, but my understanding was that Pujols was leaning on the team to make a large financial commitment to another premier player before agreeing to an extension.

Anyway, you’re probably right with regard to years 6 and 7. Nevertheless, he will likely earn his keep in the years prior.

De Gutibus non disputandum est

by Bearskin Rugburn on Jan 5, 2010 3:41 PM PST up reply actions  

I think the team would have to go completely tits up in a 2004/2008 Mariners sort of way for him to jump ship.

Signing Holliday is just one way to add wins. It lloks like the Cards were bidding against themselves and caved.

by Poochie on Jan 5, 2010 3:45 PM PST up reply actions  

I don't know if Pujols necessarily gets the whole marginal wins thing

but of course getting to the post season is what counts.

De Gutibus non disputandum est

by Bearskin Rugburn on Jan 5, 2010 4:05 PM PST up reply actions  

I play third in softball as a lefty. I don't think this would work at the MLB level.

I can’t be certain, though. I’m still tinkering around with the idea of playing kicking balls back to first.

by abender20 on Jan 5, 2010 3:57 PM PST up reply actions  

Jesus Troy Glaus' deal is a fucking joke

he’s getting 2M base pay and only 2M more in PA incentives. He’ll get 3.05M for 500 (optimistic but reasonable) 3.45 for 550 (very optimistic) and 4M for 600 (no way). And we’re getting Casey Fucking Kotchman. Dammit.

De Gutibus non disputandum est

by Bearskin Rugburn on Jan 5, 2010 4:11 PM PST reply actions  

Twins still trying for Washburn:
The Twins have made an offer to free agent left-hander Jarrod Washburn, reports Scott Miller of CBSSports.com.
The Twins have already secured Carl Pavano, but they’d like to add another arm in preparation for their new open-air stadium. Washburn, 35, was 9-9 with a 3.78 ERA in 28 starts last season, but really struggled down the stretch, tallying a 7.33 ERA in eight starts after being traded to the Tigers in July. With a 4.10 career ERA in 12 career seasons, he’s no ace, but the veteran left-hander would fit nicely in the back-end of the Minnesota rotation.

A Few Hail Zduriencik!

by Goose on Jan 5, 2010 9:05 PM PST reply actions  

Without reading his article, I'll take a wild guess as to why...

Does he mention anything about ’DH’s are only part-time baseball players’?

And if so, does he mention if he’s ever voted for a reliever for the HOF?

I fucking hate you Mariners

by kentroyals5 on Jan 6, 2010 10:05 AM PST up reply actions  

Baker needs to go back to Canada.

Racer X. You have to love those amarillo hops.

p.s. fuck you angels

by InSpokane on Jan 6, 2010 10:10 AM PST up reply actions  

This will unite all stat nerds and their spreadsheets with the casual Mariner fan.

However, I still enjoy Baker’s work. I almost prefer reading opinions/articles I disagree with than those I agree. So keep on Baker!

I fucking hate you Mariners

by kentroyals5 on Jan 6, 2010 10:23 AM PST up reply actions  

I mean, jesus chirst.
Today marks the first time Edgar Martinez will learn of his Hall of Fame chances and he most certainly won’t be getting in. I did not vote for Martinez and can guarantee you he won’t come close to the 75 percent threshold needed to make it.

Emphasis mine.

Not so for a DH, which is used by only one of the two leagues that comprise Major League Baseball. So, that’s a bit of a problem. We as voters are being asked to judge the merits of a guy who benefitted from advantages not available to players on roughly half the teams in his sport.

So if a player plays in the AL, he’s automatically penalized a little?

Martinez was never a top-two MVP finisher the way Dawson was three times.

Irrelevant.

Again, I find it interesting this off-season, as Mariners fans weigh the merits of many of the team’s winter acquisitions — judging them not only by their bat, but by defensive ability — they are willing to more or less overlook the defensive component in Martinez’s case. Sounds a little contradictory to me.

This one is my favorite.

A Few Hail Zduriencik!

by Goose on Jan 6, 2010 10:28 AM PST up reply actions  

SON OF A BITCH

that’s all I have to say

De Gutibus non disputandum est

by Bearskin Rugburn on Jan 6, 2010 10:33 AM PST up reply actions  

Classic Baker

Building up strawmen and generally being the dickhead contrarian to the Mariner fan internet community. I’ve never read another beat reporter with such an ability to take the fun out of baseball.

by Manzanillos Cup on Jan 6, 2010 10:52 AM PST up reply actions  

He voted for Dawson because he played on Astroturf and hurt his knees and got a lot of votes by writers.

Those were his justifications to not vote for Edgar, who also played on Astroturf, also hurt his knees, and isn’t getting votes by writers BECAUSE he didn’t get votes by writers. Unbelievable.

...and now I'm here

by CapSea on Jan 6, 2010 1:50 PM PST up reply actions  

.
But to anyone who understands baseball, and the intangibles that go into it, Dawson is a guy who belongs in Cooperstown.

Permission to think poorly of Geoff Baker, boss?

...and now I'm here

by CapSea on Jan 6, 2010 1:53 PM PST up reply actions  

So if Kotchman is our starting 1B

Then we might still be looking at a SP and/or DH.

For DH we might be interested in finding a RHB to balance the lineup a little. Vladimir Guerrero might make sense.

The problem is that any DH we get basically is shifting Bradley from DH to LF and Saunders to AAA probably. Therefore for it to be an upgrade you need the DH to be better than Saunders is projected to do. A realistic Saunders projection for next year is probably 1 WAR. The problem is that most of the DH types out there right now (Thome, Vlad, Branyan, Delgado) project to probably be worth around 1.5 – 2 WAR which just isn’t really a big upgrade.

That tells me that we should take our money and put it into a SP where it will provide more of an impact for the team. Sound reasonable?

by Edgar for Pres on Jan 6, 2010 4:16 PM PST reply actions  

We still don't have a lot of lefties.

We don’t really need another righty.

...and now I'm here

by CapSea on Jan 6, 2010 4:25 PM PST up reply actions  

Yeah RHB is not required.

I’d rather have a better player who can hit left handed but all things equal a RHB might be nice. Especially at DH since we already have Griffey who can DH I guess.

by Edgar for Pres on Jan 6, 2010 4:33 PM PST up reply actions  

That's not what you're saying, I know, but we really don't need another righty necessarily.

If we invested all of our remaining money in two SPs, that’d be interesting though.

...and now I'm here

by CapSea on Jan 6, 2010 4:27 PM PST up reply actions  

A righty would be a good idea.

Of the floating guys available, there’s Kotchman (L), Langerhans (L), Saunders?(L), Hannahan (L), Griffey (L), the other catcher®, Bradley (S), Tui®.

by abender20 on Jan 6, 2010 5:02 PM PST up reply actions  

Yes.

Ideally, it would be nice to have a righty to partially platoon at both first base and left field. The likely starters there (Langerhans, Kotchman, Saunders) wouldn’t provide much offense against left-handers. That’s a very specific find, though. It’s almost like we would be looking for another Bill Hall.

by nathaniel dawson on Jan 6, 2010 7:29 PM PST up reply actions  

Geoff Baker

tweets that Chris Woodward is back on a minor league deal.

FUCK THE ANGELS!

by Fuckmikereilly on Jan 6, 2010 5:16 PM PST reply actions  

Thank fucking Christ.

My Mariners blog - SodoMojo, Twitter Feed, Fuck the fucking Angels!

by gregrabble on Jan 6, 2010 6:45 PM PST up reply actions  

Just for fun

CHONE predicts Woodward to be worth -0.5 WAR/650 PA next year

by Edgar for Pres on Jan 6, 2010 6:51 PM PST up reply actions  

Also just for fun

Tug Hutlett is predicted to be a 1.7 WAR player next year.

by Edgar for Pres on Jan 6, 2010 6:56 PM PST up reply actions  

Chris Woodward AND Corey Patterson

Season tickets for the Rainiers start at $576.

Also, while typing in tacomarainiers.com I swear it looks just like taco mariners.

by edddgar on Jan 6, 2010 7:03 PM PST up reply actions   1 recs

Oh thank god we re-signed Chris Woodward

I was really worried

Determined, Jonesing Commentor | Proud proprietor of Wyomingroutes.org & Washingtonhighways.org

by Corco on Jan 6, 2010 7:26 PM PST reply actions  

The Cards will be paying Holliday for the next 20 years.
Under the terms of his new seven-year, $120 million contract, the Cardinals will pay Matt Holliday through 2029.

It doesn’t quite match the infamous and often mocked contract Bobby Bonilla signed with the Mets. Holliday’s contract includes a $17 million team option for 2017 with a $1 million buyout. The option becomes guaranteed if Holliday finishes in the Top-10 of the 2016 NL MVP voting. However, Depending on whether the option is exercised by the team, Holliday will receive $1.4 million or $1.6 million each July 15 from 2020 until 2029. The Cardinals are expected to finalize the agreement with Holliday on Thursday.

And on the Chapman front:

Clark Spencer of the the Miami Herald writes that internally the Marlins have conceded defeat in their efforts to sign Cuban left-hander Aroldis Chapman.

Things are starting to speed up in the bidding for Chapman, and the Marlins made a pretty substantial bid — a reported $13 million — but it appears the Angels and Blue Jays are the front runners at this point in time. The 21-year-old is expected to make a decision in the next couple of days.
The Angels are “trying like crazy” to sign free agent left-hander Aroldis Chapman, reports Ken Rosenthal of FOXSports.com.

At the beginning of this process, it appeared the Red Sox and Yankees were the favorites to land the 21-year-old fireballer, but as his price has come down, more teams have entered the fray. The Blue Jays are also considered a favorite, but the Kendry Morales connection has reportedly helped the Angels in their pursuit of the young left-hander. Chapman is expected to sign a contract in excess of $20 million.

A Few Hail Zduriencik!

by Goose on Jan 7, 2010 6:44 AM PST reply actions  

Obvious signing is obvious.

Jerry Crasnick of ESPN.com reports that the Royals have reached a preliminary agreement with outfielder Scott Podsednik.
And there it is. As Crasnick notes, Podsednik had been discussing one and even two-year deals with clubs this winter. Let’s hope, for Kansas City fans, that his contract with the Royals is only for one year and worth just around $1 million. The 33-year-old outfielder had a nice comeback season in 2009 but he’s not the answer to Dayton Moore and Co.’s woes.

A Few Hail Zduriencik!

by Goose on Jan 8, 2010 9:17 AM PST reply actions  

1/$1.75m, as it turns out

Rosenthal:

Podsednik – 1 yr., 1.75M plus inctvs that could bring him to 2M. 2M club option for ’11 plus inctvs that he can void with 525 PAs in 2010.

by xero3k on Jan 8, 2010 2:05 PM PST up reply actions  

Twitter
Hearing Gonzalez for Buchholz, Ellsbury, Kelly, Reddick.

-Jackie MacMullan, Boston Globe

by Graham MacAree on Jan 8, 2010 2:28 PM PST reply actions  

Brett Myers to Astros

1yr/5mil + incentives and 2011 option. Looks like a decent deal for the Astros. They finally did something respectable.

by Edgar for Pres on Jan 8, 2010 9:49 PM PST reply actions  

He was injured and showed many signs of being suck these past 18 months or so.

And spent most of last year as a reliever. In addition, the upgrade provided by Myers is useless for the Astros, and they are paying market value, so I feel like it is a waste of money. I’m happy to be proven wrong though.

...and now I'm here

by CapSea on Jan 9, 2010 2:06 PM PST up reply actions  

Chapman to Toronto?
The Blue Jays may be closing in on a contract with Aroldis Chapman, reports The El Nuevo Herald.

The Spanish-language version of the Miami Herald says the club has offered Chapman $23 million and are moving close to signing him. Toronto is the favorite to sign the Cuban defector, but the Angels or another team may still jump in before the left-hander decides his fate.

A Few Hail Zduriencik!

by Goose on Jan 9, 2010 7:04 AM PST reply actions  

LaHair----> Cubs
FOXSports.com’s Jon Paul Morosi reports the Cubs have signed 1B Bryan LaHair to a minor league contract.

LaHair had a .661 OPS in 136 AB for the Mariners in 2008 and wasn’t heard from again. His power took a step forward during Triple-A Tacoma’s 2009 season, cranking a career high 26 home runs and posting a .530 slugging percentage. Morosi goes on to say that with a strong showing in camp, the 27-year old could wind up on the big league team.

A Few Hail Zduriencik!

by Goose on Jan 9, 2010 9:32 AM PST reply actions  

Well this is sorta random.
MLB.com reports that the Rangers have signed Khalil Greene to a one-year, $750,000 contract.

Greene sure has fallen a long way. Not only did he settle for a minimal deal, but he couldn’t even find a team willing to give him a real chance of winning a starting job. The Rangers’ infielders figure to get very few days off when healthy, so Greene really should have kept looking and hoping that something better opened up.

A Few Hail Zduriencik!

by Goose on Jan 10, 2010 5:47 AM PST reply actions  

Chapman signed?
According to Jeff Passan of Yahoo! Sports, Aroldis Chapman has agreed to a $30 million contract with a National League team.
The Marlins, Astros and Reds are among the NL teams that have shown interest in Chapman this winter but handing $30 million to an unproven Cuban defector would be out of character from all three clubs.

A Few Hail Zduriencik!

by Goose on Jan 10, 2010 10:20 AM PST reply actions  

Looks like it may be the Reds
Yahoo’s Jeff Passan reports that an “NL Central” team has signed Cuban left-hander Aroldis Chapman and speculates it may be the Reds.
A team source told Passan this week that the Reds were going after Chapman “like crazy” while the other Central teams — Cardinals, Astros, Cubs, Pirates and Brewers — have not been linked to the Cuban defector for quite some time. The contract, whoever may have tendered it, is thought to be worth $30 million over five years. Stay tuned as we sort this all out.

A Few Hail Zduriencik!

by Goose on Jan 10, 2010 11:17 AM PST up reply actions  

The Reds it is
According to Jeff Blair of Toronto’s Globe and Mail, Aroldis Chapman has agreed to a five-year, $30 million contract with the Reds.

The Cuban left-hander drew bids this winter from baseball’s biggest spenders and several surprise teams, but the Reds stepped forward and grabbed him with an overwhelming offer.

A Few Hail Zduriencik!

by Goose on Jan 10, 2010 12:03 PM PST up reply actions  

That's a ton of money for a guy with so many questions.

The fact that the Yanks weren’t in on him suggests there were some make up/arm issues (since money’s not really an object for them). Wonder where they start him.

De Gutibus non disputandum est

by Bearskin Rugburn on Jan 10, 2010 1:58 PM PST up reply actions  

Comments For This Post Are Closed


User Tools

By reading a game thread of your own volition you agree to accept all liability for any and all damage done to your delicate sensibilities.

FanPosts

Community blog posts and discussion.

Recent FanPosts

Small
Starlin Castro's fit with Seattle
Kawasaki80_small
Lists! So many lists!
M_s_hat_copy_small
OT -- May 22nd In Memoriam
Ichiro_small
Why do managers and media members hate walks?
Wbc_029_small
Friday Morning Music Thread
Small
Dustin Ackley BP swing vs game swing
Beastquakerwallpaper_small
More on the Struggles of Smoak
Randy2_for_sbn_small
Albert Pujols 2012: Three Retrospectives
Small
On Batting Orders
Niehaus_small
More on Dustin Ackley and the strikezone

+ New FanPost All FanPosts >

Yahoo_full_count

Sexy People

Wbc_029_small Jeff Sullivan

Small Matthew

Claw_small JY