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Morrow Trade Reaction Overflow Thread

Sounds like it's Morrow for League + Jomerhyn Chavez, which sucks.

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Booo

[DELETED ZOMG NO POLITICS]

by bluemax on Dec 22, 2009 11:43 AM PST reply actions  

I Can't Help But Think There Is More In Play Here...

Otherwise, Jack has some ’splaining to do.

Alvin Davis, your legacy is no longer tarnished.

by Doug Taylor on Dec 22, 2009 11:44 AM PST reply actions  

It makes sense if we were trading Halman as part of a larger deal

but we’d be selling low in his case, and the org seems to have gone out of their way to help him out after his troubles this past season.

So basically, it doesn’t make sense.

"Ever tried? Ever failed? No matter. Try again. Fail again. Fail better." - Samuel Beckett http://mvn.com/marinersminors/

by JY on Dec 22, 2009 12:20 PM PST up reply actions  

Maybe this was part of the agreement with Lee/Halladay.

Perhaps Toronto forced the Phillies to trade with us, so that they’d get Morrow in this ridiculousness.

...and now I'm here

by CapSea on Dec 22, 2009 3:55 PM PST up reply actions  

Chavez video:

Looks like we re-acquired Wlad.

Blah.

Is that the light at the end of the tunnel, or the headlights of an oncoming train?

by Benne on Dec 22, 2009 11:44 AM PST reply actions  

He also has at least one bad DFA.

I refer, of course, to Potatoes.

"Ever tried? Ever failed? No matter. Try again. Fail again. Fail better." - Samuel Beckett http://mvn.com/marinersminors/

by JY on Dec 22, 2009 2:05 PM PST up reply actions  

You're mistaken.

Jack was hired in October and Potatoes was DFA’d and picked up on waivers by the Braves on Nov. 20th. It was one of his first moves.

"Ever tried? Ever failed? No matter. Try again. Fail again. Fail better." - Samuel Beckett http://mvn.com/marinersminors/

by JY on Dec 22, 2009 2:14 PM PST up reply actions  

huh...wow

Determined, Jonesing Commentor | Proud proprietor of Wyomingroutes.org & Washingtonhighways.org

by Corco on Dec 22, 2009 2:24 PM PST up reply actions  

I really think that trade is debatable as a bad trade

Saunders>Balentien and with Wlad out of options, he would have gone through waivers and likely been picked up. Manuel, despite underwhelming skills put up solid numbers. When we tried to remove him from the 40-man, he got picked up.

by edddgar on Dec 22, 2009 2:06 PM PST up reply actions  

This is odd

Chavez seems like such a departure from the type of player Jack has valued. Real puzzling…

by gumbostu on Dec 22, 2009 11:46 AM PST reply actions  

So I assumed we were going to use Morrow

to get better this year. This trade doesn’t really do that or appear to do much of anything else besides cleanse our farm system of anybody connected to Bavasi.

by Edgar for Pres on Dec 22, 2009 11:48 AM PST reply actions  

Meh, League is a 1.5-ish win reliever which is a 1.5 win upgrade over whoever he's replacing in the bullpen.

I can live with the deal, although I don’t exactly know why we were shopping Morrow so much.

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by lailaihei on Dec 22, 2009 11:49 AM PST reply actions  

I doubt he can get to 1.5 wins

I’ll be satisfied if he gets to 0.5

De Gutibus non disputandum est

by Bearskin Rugburn on Dec 22, 2009 11:51 AM PST up reply actions  

2.1 WAR over his last 106 expected innings.

Adjust for leverage (assume he’s set-up) and there you have 1.5 wins.

Hey everyone, Follow me on Twitter!, check out My Baseball Blog, and Last.fm me!

by lailaihei on Dec 22, 2009 11:54 AM PST up reply actions  

Past performance should not be used to project true talent

This is a big problem I’m having with career WAR posted on fangraphs. You shouldn’t just project it out. People get lucky and that drastically effects their past performance.

by Edgar for Pres on Dec 22, 2009 11:55 AM PST up reply actions  

I look forward to the LL ban on...

…mentioning the name of Cy Young Brandon Morrow and how he could have been ours.

by Attractive Nuisance on Dec 22, 2009 11:50 AM PST reply actions  

If I were di-a-betting man.

I would disagree.

2009 Safeco Field Record: 6-0 ; Overall Safeco Field Record: 10-4

by Fin on Dec 22, 2009 11:57 AM PST up reply actions   1 recs

Same here

That said, I’d still like to get something worthwhile out of him

I want to poop at your house - Thingray

by tootthekazoo on Dec 22, 2009 1:01 PM PST up reply actions  

How serious is this?

Seems like this is the third or fourth prospect someone has heard the M’s are getting. Why are we more certain about this one?

by Nate Dogg on Dec 22, 2009 11:51 AM PST reply actions  

Because this one comes from an actual source, apparently.

The Blue Jays’ beat writer on MLB.com. Of course I wouldn’t necessarily trust any “sources” of Jim Street so we’ll see….

A Mariners fan in Seattle

by Coach Owens on Dec 22, 2009 11:53 AM PST up reply actions  

This isn't exactly fresh insight ...

… but if this is his value on the market, why not finally give Morrow a real, sustained chance in the rotation? With all the bungling in his development, I don’t think we ever really got a feel for what he could do. I understand that managing talent is about balancing upside against volatility – and Morrow had lots of both – but trading Morrow for League seems like reducing the volatility at the expense of eliminating much of the upside and potential value.

by Chris Hafner on Dec 22, 2009 11:53 AM PST reply actions  

Is that what this is?

Is it within the realm of reason that the Morrow trade with Toronto was considered by all parties to be “part of” the deal, and they’ve just finished cleaning up the details?

by robbbbbb on Dec 22, 2009 11:56 AM PST up reply actions  

Yup.

It really speaks to how far the M’s have come if we’re upset about this.

Alvin Davis, your legacy is no longer tarnished.

by Doug Taylor on Dec 22, 2009 11:58 AM PST up reply actions  

So it sounds like we traded Morrow for League with Chavez being thrown in for kicks.

Makes me wonder about Morrow’s worth to the organization and to the rest of baseball? If this is all we’re getting we couldn’t just keep Morrow? Unless our org simply didn’t prefer having him around.

Also strange how none of the other trade linked to Morrow never went through.

by ThundaPC on Dec 22, 2009 11:56 AM PST via mobile reply actions  

Booooooooooo!

This Sucks!! Is Morrow’s value that low? If so, why not just hang on to him and hope he shows some improvement.

by rrenner07 on Dec 22, 2009 11:57 AM PST reply actions  

So, assuming this trade happens and we do look for another starter?

Has the market changed with the Jason Marquis signing? He’s not exactly good and just signed for $7.5M a year. If so, I’d rather we keep Morrow.

A Mariners fan in Seattle

by Coach Owens on Dec 22, 2009 11:59 AM PST reply actions  

Marquis is a 2-3 win pitcher probably.

Maybe better in RFK stadium, so his salary is ok. Its still a buyer’s market.

De Gutibus non disputandum est

by Bearskin Rugburn on Dec 22, 2009 12:08 PM PST up reply actions  

So if you figure him for 1.5 wins

And figure a win costs $4.5m, it’s only a slight overpay. Plus the Nationals are dumb.

by arbeck77 on Dec 22, 2009 12:20 PM PST up reply actions  

Well this is gay

My Mariners blog - SodoMojo, Twitter Feed, Fuck the fucking Angels!

by gregrabble on Dec 22, 2009 12:03 PM PST reply actions  

Hold on guys.

Lets not freak out Morrow hasn’t exactly been lights out and has yet to develop his off speed which makes him a below average starter. Also this Chavez guy hit 21 HRs last year at the age of 21 so maybe Jack sees some sort of upside in him. I think it is a little funny as well but based on what this GM has done so far I know I should be patient and see how it plays out.

by brinkislikevickheabusesdawgs on Dec 22, 2009 12:07 PM PST reply actions  

This is really the best deal out there for Morrow?

Guess we over-valued him. Not even a David Cooper or Tallet. Don’t like this deal one bit.

by russak on Dec 22, 2009 12:08 PM PST reply actions  

Chavez is arguably a much better return than Cooper

Tallet would of been nice though. I do not think the Jays would be willing to part with him though. The Jays seem to be doing spagetti on the wall, with their projected starting rotation in 2010 having so many variables.

Not a great trade on our part though.

by tdot mariner fan on Dec 22, 2009 12:14 PM PST up reply actions  

Nevermind on Tallet

I thought his XFIP was better than it actually was, does not really offer anything more than league. Probably less when you consider positional scarcity.

by tdot mariner fan on Dec 22, 2009 12:17 PM PST up reply actions  

Is League much better of a RP than Morrow?

I could see him being better now but he’s also more expensive and the difference can’t be that small. Morrow in relief always felt like a waste of resources but he was pretty damn awesome at times.

by Edgar for Pres on Dec 22, 2009 12:12 PM PST reply actions  

He seems more dependable

if such a thing could be said of relievers. At least he knows what his job is.

De Gutibus non disputandum est

by Bearskin Rugburn on Dec 22, 2009 12:21 PM PST up reply actions  

It was in the bottom 10 easily before the Halladay trade

Made worse by them lowballing excellent draft selections this year.

by tdot mariner fan on Dec 22, 2009 12:19 PM PST up reply actions  

Not getting Paxton, Eliopolous, or Barrett screwed them.

Of course, I wanted Paxton, so if he’s still around when we pick…

"Ever tried? Ever failed? No matter. Try again. Fail again. Fail better." - Samuel Beckett http://mvn.com/marinersminors/

by JY on Dec 22, 2009 12:23 PM PST up reply actions  

Paxton for 2010

I wonder if he has a bad year, we can snap him up at a low value like Varvarro and try him up as a starter until his control fails. His arsenal would still be good in relief.

by tdot mariner fan on Dec 22, 2009 12:35 PM PST up reply actions  

Varvaro had TJ surgery

and ended up being picked in the 12th round I think. I like the idea of those picks, even if in practice they didn’t work out all that often, but would prefer that Paxton didn’t have TJ before we signed him.

He is apparently in some sort of kerfuffle with his school because he has an agent or something, so he could slip based on that, depending on if he pitches and whatnot.

"Ever tried? Ever failed? No matter. Try again. Fail again. Fail better." - Samuel Beckett http://mvn.com/marinersminors/

by JY on Dec 22, 2009 12:41 PM PST up reply actions  

Yeah I knew about th TJ surgery

Paxton’s control collapsing could see him have a less than good season though, though it would not affect his bonus demands as much as TJ surgery. If he could be had after the 5th round, I would love that based on the pure stuff he has.

by tdot mariner fan on Dec 22, 2009 12:48 PM PST up reply actions  

I thought they were top-15 even before the Halladay trade.

At least based on the THT list I saw in April. Definitely not deep, though.

by Teej on Dec 22, 2009 12:23 PM PST up reply actions  

Before the recent trades, middle of the pack with some helium.

Now, maybe around the top of the bottom third.

It depends on how much you think of the arms we acquired over the summer via Betancourt and Washburn. We came into the season, mid-pack, we might have worked our way up to just below ten, and then these recent ones sent us back down to mid again.

"Ever tried? Ever failed? No matter. Try again. Fail again. Fail better." - Samuel Beckett http://mvn.com/marinersminors/

by JY on Dec 22, 2009 12:27 PM PST up reply actions  

Triunfel's stock seems ot have tumbled quickly

he was supposed to be the jewel more or less. How much of the low rank has to do with his injury, weight gain, and lack of positoin?

De Gutibus non disputandum est

by Bearskin Rugburn on Dec 22, 2009 12:30 PM PST up reply actions  

It depends.

Much has been made of this being the thing that got Triunfel to focus on his work. Drayer had a great story a while back about how, because of the weight gain, they made him sign a contract that he wouldn’t leave until he was under 200, and he ended up at 196 and paid for about half his meals while he was at it. Other stories have corroborated with this, pointing out that he had been a pretty poor student as English went up until now and he’s recently devoted more energy to it and gotten a lot better.

It’s not a lot to go on, but he’s in the top five for me, though he’ll have to show more power to stay there. The lack of position is the most problematic thing when you take that into consideration.

"Ever tried? Ever failed? No matter. Try again. Fail again. Fail better." - Samuel Beckett http://mvn.com/marinersminors/

by JY on Dec 22, 2009 12:38 PM PST up reply actions  

Huh.

Brett Wallace and Travis Snider seem better than what a lot of teams have lying around. Is it that they have nothing in the low minors?

by Teej on Dec 22, 2009 12:27 PM PST up reply actions  

As noted...

they fucked up their last draft big time by not signing their supplemental rounder through third round pick and their international presence is not exactly remarkable.

"Ever tried? Ever failed? No matter. Try again. Fail again. Fail better." - Samuel Beckett http://mvn.com/marinersminors/

by JY on Dec 22, 2009 12:29 PM PST up reply actions  

Not everyone they draft is white, but they don't have many other avenues.

They closed their VSL facility in favor of opening another one in the Dominican, which they closed later. They have a little going on with that team now, but nothing that really knocks one’s socks off.

"Ever tried? Ever failed? No matter. Try again. Fail again. Fail better." - Samuel Beckett http://mvn.com/marinersminors/

by JY on Dec 22, 2009 12:35 PM PST up reply actions  

I'm sure they have a great international presence

I mean, they must get their hands on plenty of players from the United States, right?

I want to poop at your house - Thingray

by tootthekazoo on Dec 22, 2009 1:05 PM PST up reply actions  

Zing.

"Ever tried? Ever failed? No matter. Try again. Fail again. Fail better." - Samuel Beckett http://mvn.com/marinersminors/

by JY on Dec 22, 2009 1:08 PM PST up reply actions  

They also saw a great deal of upper minors pitching graduate last year

such as Romero, Rzepczynski, and Cecil. Also, Snider lost eligbility.

Others, such as Mills, Arencibia, Jackson, Cooper, and their plethora of low minors prep players had terrible seasons.

by tdot mariner fan on Dec 22, 2009 12:34 PM PST up reply actions  

Big dude

Just saw the video on YouTube of Chavez. That is one big 20 year old. Glass half full here but David Ortiz was once a Vlad B and Yohermyn C clone.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MimrNpffewM

by Fat Ichiro on Dec 22, 2009 12:20 PM PST reply actions  

Not really

Ortiz was better at getting on base than Wlad when he was in the minors.

[DELETED ZOMG NO POLITICS]

by bluemax on Dec 22, 2009 12:24 PM PST up reply actions  

OBS

Guess you are right

Vlad minors 273 .345 .526
Ortiz . 310 .383 .533
Chavez . 261 .331 .416

by Fat Ichiro on Dec 22, 2009 12:31 PM PST reply actions  

Can you use the reply button in the future

It’s really difficult to keep up with the conversation without it

by Graham MacAree on Dec 22, 2009 12:32 PM PST up reply actions  

Amused

try to avoid getting too worked up until we hear more and/or from another source.

And last night — before the “chavez” rumor broke — the previous thread was already over 800.

Anyway, couldn’t we just view this in a different light? The Cliff Lee deal was a true three-team trade involving four M’s four prospects — three to Philly for Lee, and one to Toronto — and Seattle got back Lee + League + a Toronto prospect?

by wandergeist on Dec 22, 2009 12:32 PM PST reply actions  

Well like Graham pointed out you can see it that way and feel better about life and the Mariners

but it wasn’t a three team deal and Morrow is entirely separate from Lee and Halladay. LIke everyone’s been saying, the return for him is an indication of how low his stock has fallen, much like Clement before him. Bavasi’s drafts haven’t done us well the last few years.

De Gutibus non disputandum est

by Bearskin Rugburn on Dec 22, 2009 12:36 PM PST up reply actions  

So it seems like Z's target was League, with Chavez as an interesting prospect

Seems like he might be used as a setup man or future closer. Maybe part of a bigger plan to shift Aardsma or Lowe to another team for a position player?

Either way, Drayer and others think they will be trading or signing a new starter, so maybe this doesn’t mean Fister, Vargas, or Olson making it into the rotation.

by magistermilitum on Dec 22, 2009 12:42 PM PST reply actions  

From the link:

Bob Fontaine’s drafts with the Mariners brought us…
2004: Matt Tuiasosopo, Rob Johnson, Mark Lowe & Michael Saunders
2005: Jeff Clement & Justin Thomas
2006: Brandon Morrow, Chris Tillman, Tony Butler, Nathan Adcock, Adam Moore & Kam Mickolio
2007: Phillippe Aumont
2008: Dennis Raben, Aaron Pribanic, Brett Lorin, Luke Burnett

by CMC_Stags on Dec 22, 2009 12:49 PM PST up reply actions  

Thomas, Saunders, Moore, Burnett, Raben

the only survivors.

De Gutibus non disputandum est

by Bearskin Rugburn on Dec 22, 2009 12:51 PM PST up reply actions  

Thomas didn't survive.

"Ever tried? Ever failed? No matter. Try again. Fail again. Fail better." - Samuel Beckett http://mvn.com/marinersminors/

by JY on Dec 22, 2009 1:08 PM PST up reply actions  

Alas

De Gutibus non disputandum est

by Bearskin Rugburn on Dec 22, 2009 1:18 PM PST up reply actions  

I hate morrow

I hate the trade now. Unless Jesus Jack Z is signing afree agent pitcher, our back rotation consists of snell, rowland smith, and hope

by MagicMike23 on Dec 22, 2009 12:52 PM PST reply actions  

It is an underwhelming group

you have to admit. There is upside there, but not much.

De Gutibus non disputandum est

by Bearskin Rugburn on Dec 22, 2009 12:54 PM PST up reply actions  

No but the return for him does

As I see it the team needs to add 3 of the following four: solid #3 type starter, a 1B, a catcher and a reliever. I expected Morrow to bring back either a pitcher or a 1B/C, since the reliever was easy enough to do without giving up anything.

With Morrow gone we have little left to trade and don’t have the money to sign a 1B and a pitcher. But whatever, I guess the people running the team have an idea of what they’re doing.

De Gutibus non disputandum est

by Bearskin Rugburn on Dec 22, 2009 1:07 PM PST up reply actions  

The rational expectation of Morrow doesn't, but the upside does ...

Even if it’s relatively unlikely that he hits that upside in 2010.

by Chris Hafner on Dec 22, 2009 1:09 PM PST up reply actions  

That's not what he's saying

“Brandon Morrow deal: catcher Brian Jeroloman reportedly discussed by Mariners as possible return in deal”

by Graham MacAree on Dec 22, 2009 12:56 PM PST up reply actions  

Argh.

Got a cached refresh somehow. Sorry about that.

by Dave Clapper on Dec 22, 2009 12:57 PM PST up reply actions  

I'd rather have JP arencibia

“Brian Jeroloman reportedly discussed by Mariners as possible return in deal”
When the words possibly and reportedly are in there sounds like more speculation

by MagicMike23 on Dec 22, 2009 12:57 PM PST up reply actions  

Crap, this looks like a bad trade

Morrow’s value as a league average starter is about $32m. Subtract arbitration awards for three years, and you’re probably looking at a net of ~$20m.

League is under team control for one year less and as a reliever is perhaps worth $12m at the high end. He’s also arbitration eligible and that’s likely to reduce his net to something like $7m. Chavez is like a $3m asset, so combined they’re worth about $10m.

Which means we’re getting fleeced to the tune of $10m, roughly, if this goes down.

by mebpenguin on Dec 22, 2009 1:05 PM PST reply actions  

Which is a very big "IF"

Not saying Jack Z’s evaluation is right or wrong. But if the trade is this lopsided on paper, then maybe he believes that Morrow’s upside is worth more in trade versus its value to the team measured against his risk. Other teams know that risk level too, and this could be the best deal out there. Z is going for it this year and doesn’t have time to wait and see if his projected mid-rotation starter is healthy or even a starter at all. The guy is an underperforming, injury-prone high draft pick with diabetes. Time to cut bait.

by lemonverbena on Dec 22, 2009 1:24 PM PST up reply actions  

Fangraphs is projecting him at 1.7 WAR next year

Which isn’t too far off. If he can make the transition to being a starter I don’t think it’s out of the realm of possibility to assume he’ll be about league average.

Like I mentioned above, this all depends on how likely you think that is. But if that’s what he turns out to be, and I don’t think it’s crazy to see that happening, then we’re getting burned bad.

by mebpenguin on Dec 22, 2009 1:09 PM PST up reply actions  

No, Fangraphs is not.

Fans, by which I mean, we, are.

Which is stupid.

by Matthew on Dec 22, 2009 1:10 PM PST up reply actions  

Sorry, you're right, fans are

But when we were talking about moving Morrow before today I think most of us were thinking about him as an asset with risk, but with a reasonable chance to turn into a league average starter. Today may have adjusted our thinking, but that’s certainly where I was. I figured:

30% chance he blows out and turns into a reliever or his career goes bust
50% chance he turns into a league average starter
20% chance he turns into a better than league average starter

I think the fan projections show that I wasn’t alone in that.

by mebpenguin on Dec 22, 2009 1:15 PM PST up reply actions  

I'd say:

33% – blows it and career goes bust
33% – becomes a decent/good reliever
33% – becomes a league average starter

by ARock on Dec 22, 2009 1:21 PM PST up reply actions  

I'm skeptical of the fans projection

I doubt he throws 135 innings as a starting pitcher. His best season was .6 WAR and I’ve seen nothing that makes me believe that he is going to improve on that.

by arbeck77 on Dec 22, 2009 1:13 PM PST up reply actions  

yeah that's what I'm saying - you did get burned

but I got criticized for saying that even before the lesser prospect was announced. Morrow is more valuable than League + prospect. You can’t win them all I guess

by GobbleforCyoung on Dec 22, 2009 1:52 PM PST up reply actions  

by saying that you lost this trade before everyone here realized it?

By saying “are you serious” to the ABSOLUTE AUDACITY of some on this board that Snider, Wallace or Stewart just had to be part of the trade because Z is so much smarter than everyone else.

By saying the truth makes me a dick. Got it

by GobbleforCyoung on Dec 22, 2009 2:08 PM PST up reply actions  

My bad, you just -are- a dick

That little misconception is all cleared up

by Graham MacAree on Dec 22, 2009 2:09 PM PST up reply actions  

Nice

I know it sucks to lose Morrow, but if Z believes League will help the team more in 2010 until Morrow figures his shit out than that is what matters.

The Mariners are set up to go for it all in 2010. You do realize that you have a pretty good shot to win the WS. There really is no question you will win the West. Once Harden gets hurt Texas is finished, Oakland sucks and LA lost their ace and a great player in Figgins Matsui can’t help LA if they don’t make the postseason

by GobbleforCyoung on Dec 22, 2009 2:19 PM PST up reply actions  

This may be a difficult thing for you to grasp

But I have a much more acute awareness of what goes on with the Mariners and the AL West than you do. I also am pretty good at this thing called ‘analysis’ too. Why you thought you’d talk down to an author of the blog you’re posting on is frankly beyond me.

by Graham MacAree on Dec 22, 2009 2:21 PM PST up reply actions  

Yawn

All Hail Zduriencik!

by Goose on Dec 22, 2009 1:13 PM PST reply actions   1 recs

So when Brandon League pitches for us next year...

Do we get to say ‘Diabetes’ in the game threads?

by ARock on Dec 22, 2009 1:43 PM PST reply actions  

Overbay

I still contend that Overbay is part of this deal. They need to get rid of him. I do not care what they are saying about Vlad episode II. With their new 1 bagger from the A’s Wallace, and looking at 2013 for contention Overbay makes no sense.

by Fat Ichiro on Dec 22, 2009 1:46 PM PST reply actions  

Vlad 2.0 would be fucking fantastic

but this guy looks like Wlad 2.0 which is less cool. Though At least this kid seems to be a capable fielder which Wlad was always questionable for.

De Gutibus non disputandum est

by Bearskin Rugburn on Dec 22, 2009 1:48 PM PST up reply actions  

Dear Jack,

This is a very bad trade. However, you are still a good GM.

by killer_ewok18 on Dec 22, 2009 1:47 PM PST via mobile reply actions  

Yes.

Though I’d say its a bad trade not very bad. And he is a very good GM not just good!

by ARock on Dec 22, 2009 2:01 PM PST up reply actions  

Oh dear.

d_a_cameron Kick in the pants. @ConorGlassey informs me that Johermyn Chavez was available in the Rule 5 draft. No one took him.

Fuck Anaheim.

by Eyeball Kid on Dec 22, 2009 1:49 PM PST reply actions  

So its basically Morrow for League

It will be interesting to hear the justification for this.

by Edgar for Pres on Dec 22, 2009 1:51 PM PST up reply actions  

I guess

But League is barely an upgrade over Morrow in 2010

by Edgar for Pres on Dec 22, 2009 1:57 PM PST up reply actions  

Maybe Jack just got fed up with Morrow.

I think League is definitely a safer bet in the bullpen than Morrow and Jack may have a safer bet lined up for the rotation. If the M’s are making a run in 2010 then Brandon Morrow just seems like too much of a risk.

Fuck Anaheim.

by Eyeball Kid on Dec 22, 2009 2:05 PM PST up reply actions  

He was playing too high to qualify for minor league Rule 5, I think.

"Ever tried? Ever failed? No matter. Try again. Fail again. Fail better." - Samuel Beckett http://mvn.com/marinersminors/

by JY on Dec 22, 2009 2:03 PM PST up reply actions  

Doubt it

Marshall Hubbard was in AA and he got picked

by Graham MacAree on Dec 22, 2009 2:06 PM PST up reply actions  

Good point.

I think it’s just that I’m used to seeing older summer league type players getting picked up in the minor league rule 5 despite not playing in full season ball year. Miguel Marquez was one of them who got nabbed from us recently.

"Ever tried? Ever failed? No matter. Try again. Fail again. Fail better." - Samuel Beckett http://mvn.com/marinersminors/

by JY on Dec 22, 2009 2:11 PM PST up reply actions  

Well, no one took him because they didn't want him on the 25 man roster.

It’s not like he would break camp with the big club.

Unless he was available in the minor league portion then I retract my statement.

by Sec 108 on Dec 22, 2009 1:56 PM PST up reply actions  

Four years?

They may have counted the year he signed too, which was presumably 16 not 17.

"Ever tried? Ever failed? No matter. Try again. Fail again. Fail better." - Samuel Beckett http://mvn.com/marinersminors/

by JY on Dec 22, 2009 2:04 PM PST up reply actions  

Wikipedia was wrong on this one

“- were signed at age 18 or younger and have been in the organization for five years.”

Of course when I referred to BA and it’s saying: “Players who were 18 or younger on June 5 preceding the signing of their first contract must be protected after four minor league seasons.”

Also, in Geoff Baker’s article in the Times he’s saying Chavez was signed when he was in fact 17.

by edddgar on Dec 22, 2009 2:23 PM PST up reply actions  

If he was available in the minor league protion

To be available in the minor league portion he must not be on either the AA or AAA reserve list. No service time rules.

De Gutibus non disputandum est

by Bearskin Rugburn on Dec 22, 2009 2:06 PM PST up reply actions  

You know, maybe Jack needs to make a bad trade on purpose so other GMs don't feel as though they are getting fleeced by a mastermind.

You have to play stupid sometimes.

Note: I do not actually believe this, but I thought I would throw it out there.

by Wilder. on Dec 22, 2009 2:00 PM PST reply actions  

Maybe he's doing it because he doesn't want the fans' expectations to be too high.

He knew he just pulled off 2 steals so he decides to botch one so his next 3-4 deals look fabulous even if they’re just good.

by SethGrandpa on Dec 22, 2009 2:06 PM PST up reply actions  

Feel free to blow a huge hole in my logic here

But don’t both Morrow and League both project to be 1 WAR next year? and any extra future value Morrow might have is made up for in the extra prospect?

Doesn’t that mean we come out even?

by IceStormV1 on Dec 22, 2009 2:16 PM PST reply actions  

Nope.

We have Morrow under cheap control for longer. Plus, Morrow could be a starter which would add a ton of value to him.

by SethGrandpa on Dec 22, 2009 2:18 PM PST up reply actions  

As a starter, Morrow's ceiling is significantly higher than League's

Whether he’ll ever reach it is a different issue. Thanks, Bavasi!

De Gutibus non disputandum est

by Bearskin Rugburn on Dec 22, 2009 2:19 PM PST up reply actions  

Could League be a starter?

He became a different pitcher last year and it’s possible Zduriencik thinks that he could transition to the rotation. I’m aware he’s never started a game before, but his value could be much higher as a sinker change up pitcher who dominates righties.

by coreyjro on Dec 22, 2009 2:18 PM PST reply actions  

I imagine he was acquired to pitch late innings

he may be able to start but the Mariners likely won’t waste the money to try to find out. He’ll be paid too much to work on his stuff in AA and he walks in three years.

De Gutibus non disputandum est

by Bearskin Rugburn on Dec 22, 2009 2:22 PM PST up reply actions  

Do we know if Shawn Kelley is a potential starter?

Because this would allow League to take over Kelley’s duties while he transitions as a starter.

by Wilder. on Dec 22, 2009 2:24 PM PST up reply actions  

League appears to be quite a bit better than Kelley.

I’d think you’d want the better of the two starting.

by coreyjro on Dec 22, 2009 2:26 PM PST up reply actions  

Don't really see the need for him to work on his stuff.

Just need to stretch him out for the beginning of the season. He’s got two legitimate pitches, which is more than Morrow can say.

by coreyjro on Dec 22, 2009 2:25 PM PST up reply actions  

I'm being lazy here,

but basically if he were any good as a starter he’d be doing it. Stories like Ryan Dempster’s are very very rare. League may be a capable starter, but my guess is we’ll never know.

De Gutibus non disputandum est

by Bearskin Rugburn on Dec 22, 2009 2:30 PM PST up reply actions  

Understood.

I’m just saying that League became a completely different pitcher last year and there is a possibility that Zduriencik thinks that pitcher can start. He went from throwing 83% fastballs to 65% fastballs (sinkers) and his primary off speed pitch went from a slider that he used 12% of the time to a change or splitter that he used 33% of the time. I understand that 70 IP is a small sample size, but sometimes in order to get the right player you have to jump first.

by coreyjro on Dec 22, 2009 2:37 PM PST up reply actions  

Okey, thank god for B-R

he was a starter in the Jays system for his early career. He did okay in his age 18/19 seasons and got as far as A+ ball where he suddenly couldn’t get the K’s any more. He got bumped to the pen in AA at 21 and pretty much stuck there since.

De Gutibus non disputandum est

by Bearskin Rugburn on Dec 22, 2009 2:38 PM PST up reply actions  

I initially read this thread title as

“Morrow trade overreaction flow thread”

Seems appropriate.

by senormateo on Dec 22, 2009 2:25 PM PST reply actions  

Ditto.

De Gutibus non disputandum est

by Bearskin Rugburn on Dec 22, 2009 2:30 PM PST up reply actions  

Not much overreaction, if any.

Just confusion and trying to make sense of the whole thing.

by russak on Dec 22, 2009 2:32 PM PST up reply actions  

Morrow thread

Not sure about that? We are not talking about Mike Carp. We are talking about our 1st round draft pick that at one time was going to be an amazing 1-2 punch. Basically the equivalent to Felix and Lee. We had to go out and get Lee because Marrow cratered into what he is today. An afterthought not even worthy of his own link on ESPN.

by Fat Ichiro on Dec 22, 2009 2:36 PM PST up reply actions  

Woah, hold on a second

Morrow was never considered to be in the same sentence as either Lee or Felix, not even his ceiling.

by edddgar on Dec 22, 2009 4:01 PM PST up reply actions  

To be fair, Cliff Lee was never considered to be in the same sentence as New Cliff Lee.

Some guys just figure it out and go nuts. But I agree, Morrow’s ceiling always seemed to be as an above-average starter. Maybe a 2, if we want to give it a number.

by Teej on Dec 23, 2009 9:15 AM PST up reply actions  

So any confirmation that Chavez is the prospect they're sending over?

The only confirmation seems to be that the source is extremely reliable but we can hope right???

You got slurved!

by Slurvey on Dec 22, 2009 3:56 PM PST reply actions  

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