What to expect from Milton Bradley
by 3744nsheffield on Dec 20, 2009 7:06 AM PST
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I have had the pleasure of watching Bradley for the past two seasons. I live in Dallas, so I followed his season with the Rangers, and I grew up a Cubs fan (and, sadly, remain one). The thing with Bradley is not so much that he has an "attitude" problem; it's that he doesn't play enough.
One doesn't need to be well-liked to be successful. The Dick Williams Oakland As couldn't stand each other and won two World Series. Everyone works with jerks, and the world goes on. The problem with Bradley is that he gets hurt and can't play. He is injury prone, and there is a reason that he has had only one year with more than 500 at-bats in his 10 seasons in the major leagues.
The other problem with Bradley is that he says he's hurt and can't play, and he is the only one who thinks he is hurt. He pouts, just like the guy who calls in sick because he's mad at the boss and he'll show the boss how much the company needs him. That happened in Texas, when he had a bunch of mysterious ailments in the last month or so. Even the beat writers here, hardly a negative group, were wondering what was going on. The general consensus was that he was malingering to protect his stats in a contract year. In Chicago, the "ailments" started early and never let up. You can tell this is going on because Bradley doesn't go on the DL, never has a serious injury, and always says he'll be OK in a few days.
The problem with this, of course, is that the team has to substitute a lesser player for him in the lineup and the bench is a man down. It drove Lou Piniella crazy, and even Ron Washington was annoyed.
Will this happen in Seattle? Your guess is as good as mine. Maybe Griffey can lay down the law. Maybe Wakamatsu can figure out how to handle him in a way no one else has. The one thing I wouldn't count on is that it won't happen in Seattle because the atmosphere is "low-key." It happened in Texas, and no one pays any attention to the Rangers after the Cowboys start training camp. It doesn't get much more low key than that.
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You know what's going to be awesome?
every time Milton Bradley belches without saying “excuse me”, or sits out a game, or goes 0 for 4, there’ll be a million people posting here saying SEE WE ALL TOLD YOU HE WAS A CLUBHOUSE CANCER YOU GUYS WERE DUMB FOR SIGNING HIM I AM RIGHT HAHAHAHAHAHA
We know the risks of Milton Bradley, in the clubhouse and on the field We get it. But we do not care. Even two months of a clubhouse cancer at his typical production levels is still far, far more production than we’d get out of Carlos Silva in an entire year.
by pdb on Dec 20, 2009 9:26 AM PST reply actions 4 recs
I think he is well worth the risk
if he can bat .270 or higher have 10+ hrs and 65+ rbis, and at least 350 abs.
He could be an all star again, he just has to like his surroundings and feel respected. If he likes his team, he will try and want to play well. If Milton Bradely is trying then he can be an all star.
He can be good and I think he will, even if he is turrible(charles barkely turrible) he will still be better tham Silva. I mean at least he can produce.
Silva was doing nothing and its was very unlikely he would produce again, at least there is hope and potential for Bradely.
There are no weapons of mass destruction in Iraq Chuck Norris lives in Texas
I get that Bradley has problems with attitude, or whatever.
I also understand that he’s injury prone. I think we, as a fan base, fully understand the risk associated with bringing Bradley into the fold. What I think people who are not M’s fans don’t quite get is that Carlos Silva meant absolutely nothing to this organization at this point. Less than nothing, as a matter of fact. He was eating up $12 million a year and producing zero for the club. Will Bradley cost a little more? Yes. Might he blow up like a nuclear bomb the first time an umpire makes a bad call on a pitch? Maybe. But the fact that there is a good chance he will produce for the club makes him more valuable to the M’s than Silva. Jack Z. was probably going to just cut Silva eventually, something he can still do to Bradley should he be a complete bust.
So, thanks for the heads up. We as fans appreciate it. But we also have a very, very good idea of what to expect when Bradley joins the team.
Say it with me: Washington Capitals. Capitals.
Preserved In All His Greatness - R.I.P. The Reignman 1989 to 1997
I think what it really comes down to is trading something that is completely useless for something that could possibly be useful.
2009 Safeco Field Record: 6-0 ; Overall Safeco Field Record: 10-4
Eh...
the point still stands. Yes, Bradley’s a great return for Silva, who was a sunk cost. That said, the Mariners only have 13 spots to give to position players, and they’re committed to using one of those spots on Bradley, and we can count on needing to sit him 20-30 times per year even in a healthy season.
Yes, we’ll get far more out of Bradley than we did for Silva, but that doesn’t mean his habit of sitting out games because of vague ailments doesn’t hurt the team’s flexibility. I’m still a huge fan of the move, though.
Where have I seen this
1. Bad attitude – check
2. Injury prone – check
3. Clubhouse cancer – check
Yep, we’ve already been over this all. It’d be nice if Cubs fans stop trying to convince themselves they made some great trade by trying to convince Mariners fans Bradley will destroy all of Seattle. Accept the fact you traded away a guy with the potential to be useful for us for CARLOS SILVA. We get it, you hate Bradley. We don’t.
As a rule...
You aren’t going to get far here suggesting guys are faking injuries. Baseball is an incredibly precise sport, and even minor injuries can drag down production or compound themselves into something worse if ignored/fought through (see Bedard, Erik). Professional athletes are generally competitive enough to go when they can. Perhaps Bradley is an exception, but given his (admittedly frequently misplaced) passion for the game, I would need more than hearsay and conjecture to label him as such.
Absolutely.
Milton Bradley seems to be a jerk and a crappy teammate, at least according to everything I’ve ever read about him. But obviously he’s a very dedicated and focused individual who had to work hard to climb up through the minors. It takes a stupidity beyond to imagination for a player of his ability to fake injuries. Regardless of who he’s mad at, he’s a baseball player. They play to win and Bradley should know that quitting on the team will hurt his personal success as well as the teams. The more injuries he accumulates, the more risk he carries into the FA pool. From an economic standpoint it’s stupid and from a winning standpoint (think he doesn’t wanna win it all?) it’s just plain retarded. I personally doubt he’s faking injuries. More likely fans are making unfair accusations towards an unpopular player who happens to have enough ambiguous injuries to fuel the fire.
All these fans of MB's previous teams dropping in just to tell us what we already know is getting annoying
“Alright you better put a steel hat on because I’m about to blow your frickin mind! So get this…Milton Bradley, yeah, that guy you just traded almost nothing for….turns out he can be difficult to work with! I know I know, hard to believe, but it’s true cuz he was on our team and he was difficult to work with!”
Seriously everyone, we know. We knew it from long before this trade ever happened, and we don’t care. If he is as much of a problem here as he was there he probably gets cut, like we were going to cut Carlos Silva, the guy we traded for him. All these warnings about his risk of flying off the handle are meaningless because we have little invested in him that wasn’t already invested in something worthless.
by OlSalty on Dec 20, 2009 12:01 PM PST via mobile reply actions 1 recs
Agreed.
It’s funny because they’ll be vultures, waiting for him to mess up. They won’t say anything if he actually is doing well, they’ll wait until the first time he argues or seems even the slightest bit upset, and then they’ll come in waves with “told you so!” banter.
I wonder if we, in turn, should visit the Cubs’ SB Nation blog to talk about how Carlos Silva has thrown a total of 2 innings going into the All Star Break. Makes about as much sense as them coming over here.
by Kyle Rancourt on Dec 20, 2009 12:09 PM PST up reply actions
If you do that, you're banned from here.
No second chances. Trolling is absolutely not allowed.
I was being sarcastic.
Hence the ‘it makes about as much sense comment’. I digress. It’s impossible to tell tone of voice when reading something, so I apologize. I was joking and being sarcastic, that’s not what I was actually suggesting we do.
by Kyle Rancourt on Dec 20, 2009 7:35 PM PST up reply actions
Minor quibble but that's not really what sarcasm is.
You were more…. putting forth a hypothetical that you had no intention of following through with. Or something. There’s another word but it escapes me.
...and now I'm here
More facetious than sarcastic.
But yeah, now that I re-read it, sarcastic doesn’t really fit in a grammatical sense.
by Kyle Rancourt on Dec 20, 2009 10:03 PM PST up reply actions
I didn't figure you were actually serious
but I replied anyways for anyone else out there that considered it. I’m not tolerating ignorance when it comes to trolling other blogs.
I rec'd this for the "steel hat" comment.
I like hats.
by Johnny Slick on Dec 20, 2009 4:07 PM PST up reply actions 1 recs
Rec'd for reccing someone for reccing something
by .Taylor on Dec 21, 2009 10:54 AM PST up reply actions
Does this mean I should go into hiding again?
by .Taylor on Dec 21, 2009 12:32 PM PST up reply actions
You'd think I would have learned before the 1,000th joke at my expense went green
by .Taylor on Dec 21, 2009 12:55 PM PST up reply actions
What to expect from 2 + 2.
Mariners fan here. I just wanted to let you know that 2 + 2 equals 4. As someone that has used a calculator on more than one occasion, I can tell you that while it can be tempting to assume that 2 + 2 will equal 5, or occasionally 6, that’s just wishful thinking. The real problem with 2 + 2 is that it will equal 4, and it always equals 4. If you think anything otherwise, you’re just in denial. 6 different calculators have done this math before you and each and every time it equals 4. I just thought I should let you know what to expect, since you have never, ever, ever considered this before ever.
...and now I'm here
I'm sure that GMZ had no idea about Bradley's past either!
He surely didn’t take that into account when pulling the trigger on the trade. He’s definitely not a GM who turns over every stone and is calculated in his moves at all. I’m certain he’s shocked at this newfound information that Bradley has a checkered past and did not in the least plan for that.
The same Cubs fans warned us about :(edeño.
And look how that turned out for us. Jack Z turned him and Clement into Jack Wilson and Ian Snell, which is skill, turning a prospect that didn’t fit in the organization and a back up utility guy into our starting shortstop and a back end starter. So, even if MB directly doesn’t pan out, I trust that Z will be able to make something work out of the situation.
2009 Safeco Field Record: 6-0 ; Overall Safeco Field Record: 10-4
I thought the Wilson trade was viewed as one of Z's few slip-ups.
Not that it was a bad trade per se, but wasn’t Clement viewed as too valuable a chip to trade for just Wilson + Snell? Snell in particular was being touted by Dave Cameron et al IIRC because he was a useful buy-low type of guy. The problem was, the Pirates were still fairly enamored with his potential and didn’t sell all that low.
It’s also worth mentioning that :(edeno wasn’t really supposed to be a “backup utility guy” so much as a means of pushing Yuni into performing. As it turned out, he hit like a pitcher and left the M’s with little choice but to trade him off in part for a guy who actually hit well enough to stay in the majors (not that Jack Wilson is anything resembling a great hitter, but :(edeno made Mario Mendoza look like Barry Bonds). All in all, I’m still happy the team didn’t break spring training with Aaron Heilmann in the bullpen, but if there’s anybody a Cubs fan can say “I told you so” with, it’s Ronny.
by Johnny Slick on Dec 20, 2009 4:15 PM PST up reply actions
Clement's OPSes in Tacoma in 2008 and 2009 were 1131 and 871.
Unless you think that guys exist who can tattoo AAA pitching but can’t cut it in the bigs, he was still far from a bust.
by Johnny Slick on Dec 20, 2009 4:34 PM PST up reply actions
Much of his value was tied up in Clement being a catcher.
There was serious doubt he could do that at the time he was traded.
There have been tons of guys who have destroyed AAA pitching ,but couldn't hit in the bigs.
All Hail Zduriencik!
Yeah, it's called luck.
Either they had a lucky year in the minors and hit in the bigs exactly the way they did outside of that one flukey season (Eric Yelding comes to mind) or they just for some reason didn’t hit in the bigs in relatively small trials (Doug Mientkiewicz). Guys can get hurt and/or lose it as well, of course. However, you take 2 25 year olds who post a .370 MLE wOBA, one doing it in the majors and one in AAA, and their chances of putting up an 800 wOBA in the majors are almost exactly the same, all else being equal.
If you have a study that shows there is such a thing as a AAA hitter, I would love to see it. I have yet to come across anything of the sort.
by Johnny Slick on Dec 20, 2009 5:48 PM PST up reply actions
That second bit should read ".370 wOBA in the majors are exactly the same, all else being equal."
I started to post that in OPS terms then remembered my audience. Oops!
by Johnny Slick on Dec 20, 2009 5:50 PM PST up reply actions
Huh.
Jeff Clement had two very unlucky years in the majors then.
"Let this big fucker come in and walk the world here." - Dave Niehaus on JJ Putz
If by "two" you mean "one half" then I agree.
by Johnny Slick on Dec 20, 2009 8:19 PM PST up reply actions
He was here for most of 2008
And some of 2007. I rounded up. Regardless, he was terrible. We got rid of him for a reason.
"Let this big fucker come in and walk the world here." - Dave Niehaus on JJ Putz
Actually,
Just ignore all of this; I just reread your post. I misunderstood the point you were trying to make, and thus am not making any sense. Apologies.
"Let this big fucker come in and walk the world here." - Dave Niehaus on JJ Putz
Actually, he had a pretty good year last year.
He’s still a 27 year old corner OFer whereas Clement is a 25 year old catcher, but sure, I think Morse still has a chance. In fact, I’d call him a good Ken Phelps All-Star type guy if it wasn’t for his prior history with the club. Not the kind of player a team in the M’s current position should be looking at, but if I were the Nationals, sure, I’d give him a long look.
by Johnny Slick on Dec 20, 2009 5:53 PM PST up reply actions
Clement only had 200 PA in 2008,
His other 950 AAA PA in 2007 and 2009 have his OPS in the high 800s.
Although I will agree that the Wilson/Snell trade was my least favorite trade of Zduriencik’s. Least favorite not because the Pirates made of with a bunch of talent, but because nearly everything else has been amazing, and the Wilson/Snell trade was just average.
by ChristopherA on Dec 20, 2009 5:33 PM PST up reply actions
My biggest problem with the trade was the other 3 prospects.
But I can only remember Adcock’s and Lorin’s names now.
by Mariner John on Dec 20, 2009 6:14 PM PST up reply actions
Like others have posted, this whole implying a guy fakes injury makes me squeamish.
For two reasons based on two ballplayers. First, Rickey Henderson acquired a similar reputation with the Yankees in the late 80s. If memory serves, it was specifically a recurring hamstring problem. IIRC Lou Piniella was partially behind that as well. All that came out of that whole thing was that Rickey soured on the Yankees and ended up getting traded back to the A’s for a bunch of garbage (looking it up on bbref, the move was Rickey for Greg Cadaret, Eric Plunk, and Luis Polonia – yuck).
Point of Rickey Henderson: what’s the point of griping about what a guy isn’t doing? All that happens is you end up undervaluing him in relationship to other players and you trade the greatest leadoff hitter of all time for Luis fucking Polonia and two relievers.
The other reason, which is a bit darker, is JR Richard. In 1980, Richard complained of tiredness and a dead arm. In retrospect, this should have been a key opportunity for the Astros to, you know, listen to him and see what was going on with the dead arm. Instead, he was cast as a malingerer who was jealous of Nolan Ryan’s brand new contract with the team. So he kept pitching through it, and as it turned out had several strokes (possibly caused by clots in his bad arm getting thrown up into his brain; I am not a doctor), nearly died, and never pitched again in the majors.
I’m not saying that Milton Bradley might have a secret 9-year injury that he’s been hiding, but the other issue with branding a guy like this is that one stops looking at the player as a person who has the capacity to get hurt and as someone who is always faking it. Maybe Bradley took time off in late 2008 because the rigors of the season actually made him not feel well. Maybe, too, he could have shrugged it off if the Rangers were more competitive at that time, but just because a guy can play through the pain doesn’t make him not hurt.
by Johnny Slick on Dec 20, 2009 4:31 PM PST reply actions 3 recs
Excellent point.
No pro makes it this far with having a history of faking injuries or not giving his all.
I hate when Randy Moss gets this treatment. Apparently, he takes plays off, I’ve seen players at every position take plays off. Big deal, he still contributes at a high level every game, even if its just as a decoy.
Yeah, 99% of the time when people accuse players of faking injuries, it's bullshit
They just dislike the player for other reasons (underperforming expectations, saying unpopular things, being black) and are reaching for reasons to discredit him.
Hey remember when casual fans thought Erik Bedard was faking an injury but it turned out he had a labrum issue?
That bothered me.
Yeah, I remember thinking "I hope he's just faking it."
Because if his arm really was that shaky it probably was something like a rotator cuff or a labrum injury. Our worst fears turned out to be realized. ISTR Gil Meche going through a similar thing. Ryan Anderson too, I think, but I could be mistaken about him.
by Johnny Slick on Dec 20, 2009 11:41 PM PST up reply actions
Unless the injury is tendinitis.
Then it’s fake like 95% of the time. But that injury is decided by the coaching staff.
“Hey, you really suck. Apparently you must have tendinitis.”
...and now I'm here
You know who had a fake injury?
Carlos Silva. All last year. Because the management thought it would be better for the team to 60 day DL Silva with… what was it again? Neck soreness? …than have him on the field.
And I will wager my kidneys on the fact that Bradley never faked an injury. You just don’t get to the majors unless you are so driven to play ball that you would put up with anything at all just to stay on the field.
De Gutibus non disputandum est
by Bearskin Rugburn on Dec 21, 2009 9:35 AM PST reply actions
I think the only time it was actually possible was when Oakland tried to send him to KC for Leo Nunez
and Bradley magically failed his physical, but then he was traded to San Diego a week later.
They call their best player "Kung Fu Panda" and they complain that people aren’t taking them or the game seriously enough? -Nick
Actually he had a badly frayed labrum.
Just because you don’t like him doesn’t mean it’s any more acceptable to accuse him of faking an injury.
by Aaron Campeau on Dec 21, 2009 5:51 PM PST up reply actions
Kinda of a funny comparision we have here...
On BleedCubbieBlue (SBN Cub forum) people are accusing Gameboard with everything from the Lindberg Baby kidnapping to the Iraqi war, while over here at LL we got people accusing Silva of pretty much the same. Each team really just swapped problem kids.
Hopefully the change of address is what each player needed. Bradley was always been better in the AL and pitchers that come from the AL to the NL seem to do better.
That’s not true!!! WHY THE F*CK WOULD YOU SAY THAT YOU AHOLE!! Ok maybe your right but you gotta give a little something here for it to work. I don’t know what I’m going to do this is the worst thing I’ve ever read, this day could not get any worse. Fine, F*ck it, you’re right.
by Ditkavsworld
I am not accusing him of faking an injury
I was under the impression that the team faked an injury to put him on the DL and open a roster spot. I guess I was off.
De Gutibus non disputandum est
by Bearskin Rugburn on Dec 21, 2009 8:36 PM PST up reply actions
Don't think you were
While Silva did have a frayed labrum it wasn’t any worse than normal wear and and tear for pitchers, as far as I recall
by Graham MacAree on Dec 21, 2009 9:15 PM PST up reply actions
I fully expect Milton Bradley to...
-Beat up an 8 year old cancer survivor for not succeeding in throwing the first pitch all the way to the catcher’s mitt. (Rob Johnson still misses the ball on the hop)
-Throw a gatorade cooler at the Mariner Moose for always looking at him with “those eyes like he’s surprised to see a black man named Milton.”
-Cry during a news conference on Felix’s first lost of the year, explaining, “You can point the finger at him. You can talk about him using his fastball more. If you do it’s really unfair. He’s my teammate. He’s my starting pitcher. We lost as a team, man. We lost as a team”
-Admit he, not Tiger Woods, crashed the SUV into the tree.
I fucking hate you Mariners
by kentroyals5 on Dec 21, 2009 1:30 PM PST reply actions 1 recs
You forgot the part where he tears his rotator cuff while throwing Ichiro against a wall
De Gutibus non disputandum est
by Bearskin Rugburn on Dec 21, 2009 1:47 PM PST up reply actions 1 recs
I just covered week 1 of his tenure here.
I fucking hate you Mariners
Murders the entire team on a long flight to the east coast.
When they open the plane they find him sitting on a pile of heads, eating raw livers.
by Kermit. on Dec 21, 2009 1:52 PM PST up reply actions 1 recs
From a displaced Cub fan in Seattle
I just joined LL, I am a Cub Fan (why do I feel like I’m at an AA meeting all of sudden) and now live here in the Seattle Area. With all that said:
Gameboard is a good hitter. Carlos Silva was craptastic the last couple years. You want to dump Silva and we wanted to dump Gameboard. Do I like what Gameboard did, nope. Do I wish him or his new team ill? nope. May Gameboard hit .350 with 30 homers for you. My only hope is for Silva to keep his ERA under 5 and pitch around 150-175 innings for the Cubs.
I’ll be lurking around your board, mostly to just see how Gameboard does (I promise not to troll as I stated I wish no ill on your team).
And just so you know, I do believe the Marniers are the best team in the AL west this coming year.
Good Luck to you and my new local team.
That’s not true!!! WHY THE F*CK WOULD YOU SAY THAT YOU AHOLE!! Ok maybe your right but you gotta give a little something here for it to work. I don’t know what I’m going to do this is the worst thing I’ve ever read, this day could not get any worse. Fine, F*ck it, you’re right.
by Ditkavsworld
I like it too. A variation on the obvious joke that somehow doesn't feel *quite* as obvious.
Jigsaw falling into place
I second pdb
Gameboard is good. Or at the very least an excellent start. If he had a bigger contract Monopoly would work well. “Sorry” is very appropriate, but the reference would be probably lost. Boardgame it si.
De Gutibus non disputandum est
by Bearskin Rugburn on Dec 21, 2009 8:41 PM PST up reply actions
Dammit.
found a good french vodka called Froggie. blame it for typos.
De Gutibus non disputandum est
by Bearskin Rugburn on Dec 21, 2009 8:42 PM PST up reply actions
"Candyland" if he's awesome?
...and now I'm here
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