Some Perspective
by Jeff Sullivan on Dec 17, 2009 9:51 PM PST
in Miscellaneous
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PrintSo Cliff Lee held a conference call with reporters today from Puerto Rico, where he was on vacation. During the call he expressed his shock and dismay at being traded without notice the same day he submitted to the Phillies a counter-offer for a contract extension. Based on some of his remarks, a number of people have rushed to conclude that, uh oh, it doesn't sound like Lee wants to be here very much.
Let's all give him a break. Remember where he's coming from. For one thing, Lee says he, his agent, and the Phillies were in the midst of negotiating a long-term contract when this happened. At one moment, Lee thought he was spending the rest of his career in one place, and the next moment he was gone. That's enough of a shock to the system as it is, and it's sufficient to make anyone perturbed.
And for another - and perhaps more importantly - Lee was a Phillie. The Phillies have gone to the World Series two times in a row. They're the team that gave Lee his first taste of postseason experience, and the team with which he excelled in October. The Phillies, in Lee's own words, are the "real deal", and Lee, like most guys, really wants to win. What of the Mariners? They haven't gone to the playoffs since Lee really broke into the Majors. Two years ago they lost 101 games. Players on other teams don't look at the M's and see a team knocking on the door with an excellent front office - they see a team that's still developing, a team that's always playing second fiddle to the Angels. It'd be one thing if Lee were in Jack Wilson's position where he was coming from the Pirates. But for on-the-field reasons, there's not a player in baseball who would want to move from Philadelphia to Seattle. They're players. They don't see what we see.
We can't expect Lee to be ecstatic about getting dealt. Especially when he's on vacation. So nobody should overreact to anything he said or whatever tone he may have had during this afternoon's conference call. For him, it sucks, and we all just have to give him time to get used to the situation and see what this team's all about. The Mariners are good. The park is big, the defense is awesome, and players rave about the coaching staff. Eventually, Lee's going to be in a good place. He just isn't there yet, and Mariner fans ought to be patient with him. This is a guy who, when he takes the mound, we're all going to love. Now would be a good time for Seattle to begin embracing him the way it never did Erik Bedard.
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For what it is worth
I am watching baseball tonight on ESPN and they said that Adrian Beltre is not likely to sign with Boston.
I appreciate your comment but please use the open rumor thread FanPosts for this sort of discussion
Thank you.
by Jeff Sullivan on Dec 17, 2009 9:58 PM PST up reply actions
Sorry about that, while I have been reading here for a while,
I have not been posting here that long.
I think there is another point that Lee has made that has him feeling the way he does. Philadelphia flat out LIED to him. Lee mentions that while he was hunting, his wife called him about rumors that he was going to be traded.
"I just thought it was rumors," Lee said. "Obviously, I called my agent and he called the Phillies and they kind of downplayed it and made it seem like it wasn’t real. At that point, I was sure it was rumors."
I
Cliff loves hunting and fishing.
Should be a great match with our team and the PNW
I was just about to say that exact same thing
De Gutibus non disputandum est
by Bearskin Rugburn on Dec 17, 2009 11:43 PM PST up reply actions
Now there's something
you can’t do in Arkansas. Or Pennsylvania. Or Ohio.
by wandergeist on Dec 17, 2009 11:55 PM PST up reply actions
They should hook him up with Jay Buhner
Maybe Lee will buy his house.
by wandergeist on Dec 17, 2009 11:54 PM PST up reply actions
If I were Lee, I'd be pissed too
But if ya read the whole transcript of the conference call, He was pissed when Cleveland Traded him,
“It’s the same type feeling I had when I got traded from Cleveland to Philadelphia. "
He wanted to spend his career there after 4 months.
Cliff Lee- "Until I feel out my teammates, the chemistry of the team and how the organization is run … I’m going into it with an open mind. I’m going to go there and be me."
Teamates – check
Chemistry – check
Organization – check
Wonder if Cliff Lee is ticklish
Everybody is ticklish and anyone who says he is not ticklish is lonely and just wants to be touched
by Jeff Sullivan on Dec 17, 2009 10:14 PM PST up reply actions 4 recs
I'm offended by your blatant sexism.
I bet women get lonely at times too.
I don't think this is true.
Any time I ask a girl if she’s lonely she says no very quickly.
by 88fingerslukee on Dec 18, 2009 8:32 AM PST up reply actions 4 recs
So this is why Griffey was re-signed.
2009 Safeco Field Record: 6-0 ; Overall Safeco Field Record: 10-4
Newsflash May 2010
Press Release:
Lee signs 10mil/1yr contract with Four 1 year Team options for 8 mil/yr
Cliff Lee— “Dude, Junior can Tickle….I’ve never been happy”
He's Tom Jane.
"You're so beautiful. You could be a part-time model, but you'd probably still have to keep your normal job."
If I am counting this right Lee should make his first start in Safeco on Saturday April 17th.
I suggest we (LL/USSM community) try to make it to that game and welcome Lee in a proper fashion.
Who wants to make the face sign?
I've got a stick
There has to be something I can put on it that will make Cliff Lee feel welcome.
That didn’t come out like I’d hoped.
I agree that there's no reason to look at this and say, "Oh, Cliff Lee hates Seattle"
He sounds like he’s still dealing with the fact that Philadelphia surprisingly (to him) traded him, thinking the chances were low. Perhaps he even heard they were interested in Halladay and started imagining himself and Halladay leading the team to another World Series…who knows.
There’s still some time between now and Spring Training (dammit) and he will more than likely meet some of his new teammates and Z and Wak and his agent will point out what a boon Safeco and the M’s defense is for left-handed pitchers working toward the best ERA possible in a contract year (potentially his agent will bring this up) and he’ll be fine.
He’ll be happy to be here and we’ll be happy to have him.
O man, Lee, Halladay, and Hamels in the same rotation
That would just be too much. I would feel bad for the other teams of the NL East.
2009 Safeco Field Record: 6-0 ; Overall Safeco Field Record: 10-4
Of course in that scenario the M's would have never been on the radar for Lee
I want to poop at your house - Thingray
by tootthekazoo on Dec 18, 2009 9:37 AM PST up reply actions
As I mentioned elsewhere, I simply don't blame Cliff Lee for feeling the way he feels.
Between going from a World Series team to a team he doesn’t really know much about and being essentially replaced by Roy Halladay, it’s kinda hard for a guy to get real excited about his situation. He’ll come around.
EVERYONE loves Seattle... And coming for the first time in Spring, and staying throughout the summer is the best way for him to learn to love the city.
I’m going to be buying a lot of back-to-back tickets this year…
I'll say.
I am sure he will fall in love with the summer nights here and the beer. It will be fine.
2009 Safeco Field Record: 6-0 ; Overall Safeco Field Record: 10-4
Maybe I just haven't found the right ones,
but,I think the selection and quality of beer in PA is nearly unmatched. During the few weeks I’ve spent in the PNW, I was unable to find a single local beer that I really liked. Seattle is a much nicer city – I can’t see Lee finding fault there. Philly fans are great, while they like you, but they are very fickle. Just ask Scott Rolen or Pat Burrell. Hell, they booed Howard after a slow start in ‘08. I believe the state taxes are higher in WA, but PA’s are pretty high, as well.
by uneasy rider on Dec 18, 2009 7:19 AM PST up reply actions
Washington doesn't have state taxes.
Also, unable to find PNW you like? Have you tried Deschutes or Rogue?
by Aaron Campeau on Dec 18, 2009 7:26 AM PST up reply actions
doesn't have state INCOME tax, you mean
"Starbucks doesn’t change its logo just because it no longer serves naked mermaids in Fremont." —Librocrat
What beer did you try?
If it was only Redhook/Pyramid I completely understand.
by Scruffy Lefty on Dec 18, 2009 8:08 AM PST up reply actions
Some people prefer Yuengling I guess
De Gutibus non disputandum est
by Bearskin Rugburn on Dec 18, 2009 10:29 AM PST up reply actions
Next time you're about to come to town
either ask us what to try or just do a search for “beer” of the LL archives. You’ll find some outstanding beers here.
Best beers aren't bottled
Gotta go to the brewpubs. Though if you don’t like ultra-bitter-extra-hopped IPA styles it limits your choices, because for some reason everybody carries two or three of those. But you can still find a nice range of everything from Porters to Pilsners, you just have to get out to Big Time or the Elysian or Maritime (or somewhere that has their product on tap).
I wouldn’t be surprised if sales taxes are lower in PA (the nominal rate is just a little higher in WA, but you have a lot of local sales taxes that jack up the rate especially in Seattle… some of which is paying for Safeco Field). But WA has no state income tax. (I’m not sure how much that ultimately matters to the players, given their tax bracket and the fact that state income taxes are generally deductible from federal)
by wandergeist on Dec 18, 2009 10:12 AM PST up reply actions
Being traded has a feel a little like being a slave
If I were an MLB player, I would hate it. I can’t blame Lee at all for this.
But, yeah, let’s not read too much into this. Honestly, I’m not sure that Lee expressed anything about Seattle so much as about Philly. That was where he wanted to be, and they spurned him.
It’s not every day you have a chance to get tickled by a mortal-lock for the HOF.
I have to agree with your sentiment a little.
Perhaps because (some) professional athletes make so much relative to other professions, people are willing to overlook how much their employment situation can resemble indentured servitude. I guess they are always free to choose another line of work, but that is a little beside the point.
by FlaskInSafeco on Dec 17, 2009 11:02 PM PST up reply actions
Funny you mention that
There was a whole Supreme Court case after one guy thought that being traded was kind of like slavery.
2009 Safeco Field Record: 6-0 ; Overall Safeco Field Record: 10-4
Considering the average household income in the US is $50,000 a year
I wouldn’t mind working for a year of “slavery” at $9,000,000 per year rather than working 180 years as a “free man” to earn those amounts.
To show my “displeasure” i will put more “things” in quotes.
Correct- the average mlb salary is only 3 1/4 million/year
and for those in the minors, their salaries are still more than what I made in my late teens and early 20s working in a grocery store and going to school.
Use the median instead of the mean
guys like Alex Rodriguez and CC Sabathia making ~$22-27M skew the average way up
by seattlebruin on Dec 18, 2009 1:15 AM PST up reply actions
Also independent leagues, semi-pro, etc
If you’re going to use average household income, you need to use average professional baseball player. It’s way less than you think.
"but the more [Cliff Lee] thought of it he thought, "man pitching in Safeco Field and knowing the kind of defense they have maybe this will be a blessing in disguise..."
I don’t know how accurately Lee’s agent is representing his feelings on the trade, but if his agent’s hearsay is accurate than Lee does at least seem optimistic and aware of the benefits for Mariners pitchers.
Great post .
It’s annoying how much the casual fanbase seems to have been affronted by Lee’s comments. As you eloquently stated, Lee’s reaction is perfectly reasonable and understandable. Hopefully the Mariners will be contenders next season and he’ll change his mind.
It's reasonable for Lee to feel the way he does, but he needs to be more professional about it when talking to the media.
Bedard’s reputation was greatly affected by his interaction with the media. The casual fan depends on the attitude of the players, which is an equally reasonable reaction. The success of this organization largely depends on the casual fan because they buy tickets and merchandise. Lee’s comments on being disappointed of being traded disappointed a lot of casual fans. They are now less likely to be excited by the trade and that hurts the organization.
I know we all can understand how Cliff Lee feels, but I don’t like hearing his disappointment. Like I said, I believe he needs to be more professional about it.
I disagree
I’d much rather have a player give comments like Lee’s than some obvious boiler plate commentary.
After these interviews I’m impressed by Lee’s honesty. He’s expressing perfectly reasonable feelings. In the future when he talks about being excited by being Seattle, we will know he isn’t just saying it because it’s the ‘smart’ thing to say.
If a player isn’t being offensive, stabbing another player in the back, or telling something that should be confidential, then I really appreciate honesty.
by Snuffleupagus on Dec 18, 2009 1:26 PM PST up reply actions
No wonder good players want no-trade clauses written in to their contracts.
The 2009 Pregame Picks Winner and Iron Man of Halos Heaven.com
Recommended for good taste.
I don’t have the slightest worry about Cliff Lee’s comments. He’ll be fine. Everything will be fine.
Well Halladay seems to be happy to be in Philly
Though judging from the expressions of those around him, others are less so. Unclear if that’s a reaction to him, or just to waking up and finding themselves still in Philly.
by wandergeist on Dec 18, 2009 12:02 AM PST reply actions 1 recs
so, with all those trades, Z must really be making a name for himself!
by craig3410 on Dec 18, 2009 12:11 AM PST reply actions 4 recs
That just made my night.
I tried and failed to screen shot a poll from ESPN mobile earlier today.
Question was if bringing Griffey back was the right move, yes or no.
Something like 91% was for yes.
Bahahahahahaha
The poll is a little unfair though, since GMZ is also Men’s Luge favorite.
...and now I'm here
Wow.
Wow.
Holmgren would have drafted Crabtree.
by Fearless Frog on Dec 18, 2009 4:29 PM PST up reply actions
This could still be the anti-Bedard, PR-wise.
When Bedard was shipped to Seattle, the media and traditional fans loved him. They were the ones who were excited about the trade.
It wasn’t until his arm troubles flared up that they jumped off the ship, and Bedard was left with scarcely any supporters (RoyalCurve, LL moderators amused by his antics in the bullpen, optimists who thought he would rebound).
I’m sure the opposite will happen with Cliff Lee. I’m disappointed with the headline Geoff Baker chose to ran in today’s Seattle Times, and I expect letters that go to the tune of “If Lee doesn’t want to be here, we don’t want him” in Sunday’s edition. Those people will change their minds come April.
From what I know about writers and it isn't much
I have read on more than one occasion that the sportswriters do not write headlines. Editor’s do.
Copy editors for the most part..
A1 (front page) is written as a collaboration between the managing editors, page designers and copy editors. Blog posts, however, are solely up to the writer.
Thats how it is at the paper i worked at down here in AZ, anyways…
by seattlesundevil on Dec 18, 2009 7:22 AM PST up reply actions
Yes, copy editors was what I was trying to remember
I couldn’t remember the specific name, so I just wrote editor. Thanks for the further clarification.
Not really surprising
He’ll be happy when he finds out how smiley and together the team is.
Mr. Clifton Lee can be as truculent as he likes, far as I'm concerned
if I had just won two World Series games I would want to stay with that team too. For a guy from Arkansas who’s on vacation in Puerto Rico, being the undercard of a three-team trade to Seattle probably feels like being traded to the Alaska Goldpanners.
Lee will be fine. The casual fan responds to wins on the field more than anything else. Clifton the Unshaven Dreamboat is gon’ deliver a whole bunch of thems.
Exactly, We didn't sign a new BFF, we signed an ace pitcher
He can sit in his rented condo and bitch about being here all he wants, if that’s what he wants, as long as he turns that anger into great work every five days.
No hate for Lee
I read all I could about this conference call, and from what I gathered, Not once did Lee say anything negative about going to Seattle or the Mariners Organization.
He was upset about being traded in general. After his postseason success last year, he wanted to finish his carrer for Philly.
Also when asked about a extention with the M’s. he basically said he wants to see how things play out before he thinks about it. That works for me, If we come out and lay an egg this season, albiet unlikely, he isn’t going to stay. I wouldn’t either. He is going about it the smart way.
He noted that he is going to come in with an open mind and do his job. He also said that he looks forward to helping us reach the Playoffs.
Sounds good to me, he wants to win. So be it.
OOOOOH!!!!! That was NASTY!!!!!!!!
Yeah, if there's a team he's unhappy with
It’s the Phillies
by wandergeist on Dec 18, 2009 10:14 AM PST up reply actions
exactly
I’m not sure how someone could read his comments as negative toward Seattle. He didn’t want to move. that’s perfectly reasonable.
by Snuffleupagus on Dec 18, 2009 1:35 PM PST up reply actions
Like someone from LGT pointed out...
Jay(?) – Tell us something fans don’t know about you.
Lee – If I told you, they would know.
De Gutibus non disputandum est
by Bearskin Rugburn on Dec 18, 2009 7:55 AM PST up reply actions
I am not worried about Lee either
Whether he signs with Seattle or not, Z always leaves himself with options. In this case trading him before the deadline or getting draft picks for Lee.
This is also Lee’s free agent year and we all know how focused players are in their free agent year. Barring injury, I expect Lee to have an outstanding year, maybe one to match his Cy Young year.
Now, how he feels is perfectly understandable. It is similar to having your girlfriend or wife dumping you when you thought everything was fine. There is a huge shock.
The Phillies are a HOT girlfriend/wife too. But, it is not only that, you asked her if there was anyone else and she flat out denied that there was. Then a week later you find out she lied to you.
Like most of us when we get dumped, we are hurt in the beginning and as time goes by we get over it. Give it a few weeks or by spring training and Lee will be fine.
It's not really surprising to hear him speak out about the trade a little bit.
Remember after he dominated in his first WS game? He said something along the lines of “As hard as I work, I expect to perform, regardless of the situation.” I think it is less that Lee differs from how a normal player feels when he is traded and more that he is just the type of person who answers honestly when asked a question. For me it is really quite refrehing to hear something more than the vanilla answers that most players give.
Crash Davis: It’s time to work on your interviews.
Ebby Calvin LaLoosh: My interviews? What do I gotta do?
Crash Davis: You’re gonna have to learn your clichés. You’re gonna have to study them, you’re gonna have to know them. They’re your friends. Write this down: “We gotta play it one day at a time.”
Ebby Calvin LaLoosh: Got to play… it’s pretty boring.
Crash Davis: ‘Course it’s boring, that’s the point. Write it down.
by wandergeist on Dec 18, 2009 10:23 AM PST up reply actions
I just heard that conference call this morning.
He genuinely sounded sad and if anyone blames him for that then they are stupid. I feel for the guy. However I do remain very selfishly happy.
Lee has always had
a bit of a prickly personality, just ask Victor Martinez. Lee isn’t the warmest and fuzziest guy on the planet but hsi combativeness seems to work in his favor on the mound. He’s quite the competitor but don’t expect him to win any popularity contests.
I like Lee even more now.
Look how much he likes winning. I like to win too. This is something that will strengthen our friendship for about 20 games next season.
by insidetheparker on Dec 18, 2009 8:44 AM PST reply actions
You guys
are going to love Lee…you’re going to love the way he pitches and when you watch him you’re going to come out of every inning thinking, “thank God he’s on our team”. He’s a machine, a sexy beast.
As a Phillies fan, I’m glad we got Halladay and I hope it all works out in the end.
But do me a favor, if any of you get within earshot, tell him we’re going to miss him in Philly.
He looks like he'll fit in just fine here.
From St. Cheezberger Day, July 9th, 2009
It is just one game. Let’s not get too carried away.
by esoteric on Jul 9, 2009 10:12 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
WHAT IS THE POINT OF THIS COMMENT
by Jeff on Jul 9, 2009 10:14 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
NO SHIT IT’S ONE GAME
IT’S ALSO THE HAPPIEST GAME OF THE SEASON
by Jeff on Jul 9, 2009 10:14 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
SORRY I HAD JUST FINISHED ORGASMING BUT NOW I’M UP AND READY TO GO AGAIN.
by esoteric on Jul 9, 2009 10:16 PM PDT up reply actions 3 recs
TURING POINT
by Poochie on Jul 9, 2009 10:20 PM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
YOU MEAN LIKE TO TEST WHETHER ONE OF US A HUMAN OR A COMPUTER?
by esoteric on Jul 9, 2009 10:24 PM PDT up reply actions 11 recs
FRANKLIN IS A MACHINE BUILT FOR SEX
by OlSalty on Jul 9, 2009 10:26 PM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
HE CANNOT BE BARGAINED WITH. HE CANNOT BE REASONED WITH. AND HE ABSOLUTELY WILL NOT STOP, EVER, UNTIL YOU ARE
by esoteric on Jul 9, 2009 10:30 PM PDT up reply actions 3 recs
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