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Around SBN: Dan Marino Starting College For Developmentally Disabled

Okay Fine Here's Your Cliff Lee Thread Until Tomorrow

Wbc_029_tiny by Jeff Sullivan on in Seattle Mariners Transactions

Says Ken Rosenthal:

#Phils getting $6M from #Jays in Halladay deal. Drabek, Taylor, likely D'Arnaud to TOR, Aumont, Gillies and 3rd player to PHI...

This is, of course, just another rumor, but it's the latest rumor and also comes from as credible a source as you're going to find at the moment, so go nuts.

Comment 779 comments  |  0 recs  | 

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Read More: 2010 mlb hot stove, Cliff Lee (P - PHI), Seattle Mariners

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Say NO to Vernon Wells!!!!

JD’s like, "you want some fucking pitching? Here’s all the pitching you can stand. Now choke on it, bitches!"- RCCook

by laxtonto on Dec 14, 2009 9:52 PM PST up reply actions  

The 3rd prospect is likely Saunders or Triunfel

We paid market value for unfortunately AUmont/Gillies isnt enough

by MagicMike23 on Dec 14, 2009 9:52 PM PST reply actions  

from another site:

11:33pm: Rosenthal reports that the Phillies get $6MM from the Jays. Kyle Drabek, Michael Taylor and probably Travis D’Arnaud are headed to Toronto, Rosenthal says. Phillippe Aumont, Tyson Gillies and a third player are apparently headed to Philadelphia.

by magistermilitum on Dec 14, 2009 9:52 PM PST reply actions   1 recs

looks familiar....

JD’s like, "you want some fucking pitching? Here’s all the pitching you can stand. Now choke on it, bitches!"- RCCook

by laxtonto on Dec 14, 2009 9:53 PM PST up reply actions  

Holy shit no way

If another site says it…well….WOOT!

Determined, Jonesing Commentor | Proud proprietor of Wyomingroutes.org & Washingtonhighways.org

by Corco on Dec 14, 2009 10:26 PM PST up reply actions  

Just in....

we get a chimpanzee with a 110-MPH fastball in the deal.

by craig3410 on Dec 14, 2009 9:54 PM PST reply actions  

Thats a close one.

Its possible that Dunston Checks In was not the worst monkey movie of 1996. God I miss the mid-90s.

by Slica on Dec 14, 2009 11:54 PM PST up reply actions  

I can't stop laughing.

I think the saddest part is without hesitation I knew it was Ed. I mean, there aren’t a lot of baseball movies starring a monkey, but I didn’t even have to pause to think of the name of it.

by Kyle Rancourt on Dec 15, 2009 1:45 AM PST up reply actions  

We are foolish in thinking Lee would be given away

for a reliever and A+ ball OF, I dont think we got off that easy. It would be great, but i’m not expecting it.

by MagicMike23 on Dec 14, 2009 9:56 PM PST reply actions  

its logical

The only hitter in upper minors with any value is Saunders and Triunfel. Considering Phillies are loaded with OF’s and WIlson is signed for a 2 yr deal, I would think Triunfel would be their choice

by MagicMike23 on Dec 14, 2009 10:00 PM PST up reply actions  

I'd be OK with Morrow or JC Ramirez

I can’t imagine either of them have enormous projected values at this point. They COULD make this look like a stupid trade, but you wouldn’t assume this. Saunders would be sad, but the value of a Win is, to some extent, more important to the M’s right now than 2-3 years of a projected Win.

by chrisisasavage on Dec 14, 2009 10:10 PM PST up reply actions  

Look at it this way...

As much as everyone is anxious and emotionally charges due to all of this you could all be Astros fans and have this at the top of the board…

Astros re-sign Michaels, sign Gustavo Chacin

I think I prefer the chaos of the runaway rumor mill to that.

JD’s like, "you want some fucking pitching? Here’s all the pitching you can stand. Now choke on it, bitches!"- RCCook

by laxtonto on Dec 14, 2009 10:01 PM PST reply actions  

Okay peeps,

here’s the deal. Play nicely and respect the rules of the site. If you’re going to take an attitude, then I, as a moderator, will take one right back and ultimately, you will lose that battle.

Capiche?

by Matthew on Dec 14, 2009 10:04 PM PST reply actions   4 recs

This seems the most likely motivation to me

The Phillies wanted to get hitched. The hot girl they were dating wanted to sleep around more, so they ditched her and married the girl who used to get beat up by her boyfriend and was ready to settle down.

Hooray for easy pitchers and sloppy seconds!

by PDXTai on Dec 14, 2009 10:08 PM PST up reply actions   3 recs

We haven't had any tail in years.

I’d be more than happy to be Cliff Lee’s fuck buddy for a year.

Say it with me: Washington Capitals. Capitals.
Preserved In All His Greatness - R.I.P. The Reignman 1989 to 1997

by JLProck on Dec 15, 2009 7:44 AM PST up reply actions  

Why wouldnt they?

Lee to Halladay- upgrade
$6million
Sign halladayfor 3 yrs more on below market deal
They replace an enigmatic yet talent Drabek, Keep Happ. Trade Taylor, keep Brown.
Darnaud is a throw in prospect.Get 3 prospectsto replace the ones traded away

by MagicMike23 on Dec 14, 2009 10:07 PM PST up reply actions  

If that's all it costs

Damned I’m so stoked (and drunk) I can’t even think of a witting crack.

I’d say everyone could kick my nuts once. But I ain’t that drunk. Yet.

by chrisisasavage on Dec 14, 2009 10:07 PM PST reply actions  

I was excited when we got Bedard

Then reality hit. I dont this will be as bad, but 1 yr of Lee and he’s gone. This will set off a chain reaction for moves likely having to overhaulanoffense which is still bad and having to overpayolder FA hitters just to get them here.

by MagicMike23 on Dec 14, 2009 10:09 PM PST up reply actions  

"I was excited when we got Bedard"

I think this is an interesting point. We here were not excited, and we ended up being right. We are excited about this trade, perhaps we are correct again?

...and now I'm here

by CapSea on Dec 14, 2009 10:12 PM PST up reply actions  

I was kinda excited, like riding a bike down a mountain really fast only you know sometimes the chain pops off.

And then it does and it eats your pants leg, and you then you can’t stop the bike and it drags you to your doom.

by Kermit. on Dec 14, 2009 10:17 PM PST up reply actions   1 recs

I mean, tying your balls to an SUV and driving it off the cliff is exciting too

but I wouldn’t recommend doing it a second time.

...and now I'm here

by CapSea on Dec 14, 2009 10:22 PM PST up reply actions  

Yeah you would be nuts to do it twice

"Tell my tale to those who ask. Tell it truly, the ill deeds along with the good and let me be judged accordingly. The rest is silence." ~ Dinobot

by beastwarking on Dec 14, 2009 10:24 PM PST up reply actions  

Not news necessarily but what the hell
StoneLarry Don’t be surprised if third player to Phillies is RHP Juan Ramirez (aka J.C. Ramirez), ranked M’s No. 5 prospect by Baseball America.

by Aaron Campeau on Dec 14, 2009 10:10 PM PST reply actions  

I also approve of this.

Cliff Lee without giving up ANY of Saunders/Morrow/Loafie… well, DAMN.

Heck, even giving up Saunders, we STILL have some chips to play with.

by eponymous_coward on Dec 14, 2009 10:12 PM PST up reply actions  

The only reason I don't like Saunders

besides the obvious value that he has, is that it would also take a lot to replace him. Everyone else is easy to replace, because they’re all far away from the majors. So I really do think that if it is Saunders – and not just from a value/value perspective – I won’t like this trade. Anyone else, I don’t think I’d care, really.

...and now I'm here

by CapSea on Dec 14, 2009 10:13 PM PST up reply actions  

The way I see it, Saunders is absolutely crucial.

He’s either a good regular going forward or an opportunity to fill another hole through trade. If he’s in the deal, it goes from being awesometastic to okay in my book.

by Aaron Campeau on Dec 14, 2009 10:13 PM PST up reply actions  

We needed a 4-5 WAR player at decent salary something horrible.

If Saunders is the price for that, well, I’m fine with it. Again, we’d still have Morrow + Loafie. You can’t tell me SOME team won’t jump at ZOMG 96 MPH PLUS POWER HITTING 2B.

by eponymous_coward on Dec 14, 2009 10:15 PM PST up reply actions  

I just can't justify trading six years of team control of a guy who is probably 2 WAR right now for one year of Lee plus picks

the prospects we’d be giving up are so young that they just have a much, much higher chance to completely bust as opposed to Saunders

by seattlebruin on Dec 14, 2009 10:24 PM PST up reply actions  

I can, easy.

Saunders == Choo, or Jones. If your system can’t produce SOMEONE every year or two of this caliber, you should fire your draft people or farm system people, or maybe both, because they are full of FAIL.

Conversely, your farm system isn’t going to produce Cliff Lees or King Felixes very often. The only chance the Mariners were going to have to contend in 2009 was finding a player like this at Lee’s price point, and it’s well worth the cost of Saunders.

by eponymous_coward on Dec 14, 2009 10:55 PM PST up reply actions  

Yeah, guys like those don't materialize out of nowhere usually

Our system is pretty good right now compared to the rest of the league, and even being outfielder-rich by comparison to most, if we traded Saunders (assuming Ackley stays at 2B) it would probably be pretty hard to replace his level of production anytime soon, unless Halman figures something major out and real soon.

by OlSalty on Dec 14, 2009 11:08 PM PST up reply actions  

It got hidden in the stupid in the last thread

but I think we can assume Saunders won’t be included if the third player is in fact going to Philly. With Ibanez/Victorino/Werth, there’s not really any reason for the Phillies to take him over anyone else.

by edddgar on Dec 14, 2009 10:16 PM PST up reply actions  

If this is so I consider this a mild win

good job BaldZ

JD’s like, "you want some fucking pitching? Here’s all the pitching you can stand. Now choke on it, bitches!"- RCCook

by laxtonto on Dec 14, 2009 10:13 PM PST up reply actions  

Mild?

We don’t give up either of Saunders/Triunfel/Morrow. Thats an excellent deal if that’s the case.

by russak on Dec 14, 2009 10:22 PM PST up reply actions  

This trade is amazing if it's Gillies + Aumont + Ramirez

Aumont is entirely in the eye of the beholder – in this regime, he’s a reliever, and thus he has virtually no value

by seattlebruin on Dec 14, 2009 10:25 PM PST up reply actions  

And from the day he was drafted, Aumont has always been very risky.

There’s a tiny chance he becomes a dominant MLB pitcher, but I’m not putting money on it. I was really excited about him a year ago, but if the Mariners don’t think he’s a starter, I’m never going to enjoy that breakout anyway. So I’m fine with losing him assuming we get some good value back. And Cliff Lee + picks is pretty awesome.

by Teej on Dec 14, 2009 10:29 PM PST up reply actions  

Divish Counters

TNTmariners “@StoneLarry — Don’t be surprised if the third player to the Phillies — is Larry Stone, rated No. 2 (not my rankings) in the PNW BBWAA”

That’s where I draw the line. We are not giving up Larry Stone!

by Brian Floyd on Dec 14, 2009 10:14 PM PST up reply actions  

Oh hell no.

Larry Stone is ours and you can’t have him.

...and now I'm here

by CapSea on Dec 14, 2009 10:15 PM PST up reply actions  

No it wouldn't

It wasn’t funny the last time, and it still wouldn’t be funny

by arbeck77 on Dec 14, 2009 10:16 PM PST up reply actions  

It would be kind of funny

Of course I would long be dead from chewing out my own heart so it’s not like I could appreciate the humor.

by OlSalty on Dec 14, 2009 10:21 PM PST up reply actions  

This has been going on since early this morning.

On the internet, that might as well be 5 years.

Fans are typically idiots.

by The Typical Idiot Fan on Dec 14, 2009 10:35 PM PST up reply actions  

Does someone know the story of what happened with Lee between '07 and '08?

He was kind of a new pitcher – much higher GB% and he just stopped walking people. Did he learn a new pitch or something?

by Manzanillos Cup on Dec 14, 2009 10:19 PM PST reply actions  

So what does this make us

a projected 84 win team with money to spare?!? At the rate Z is getting wins …. Holy crap. Am I dreaming?

by chrisisasavage on Dec 14, 2009 10:25 PM PST reply actions  

Jesus

did I say that?
Or just think it?
Was I talking?
Did they hear me?

by chrisisasavage on Dec 14, 2009 10:27 PM PST up reply actions  

I was right in the middle of a fucking reptile zoo.

And somebody was giving booze to these god-damned things. It won’t be long now, before they tear us to shreds.

There is no such thing as innocence, only degrees of guilt.

by misterjonez on Dec 14, 2009 10:50 PM PST up reply actions  

There he goes

One of God’s own prototypes. Some kind of high powered mutant never even considered for mass production. Too weird to live, and too rare to die.

by chrisisasavage on Dec 14, 2009 10:56 PM PST up reply actions  

That movie is solid gold.

Every piece of monologue selected for the movie is quote-worthy, and I still think it was Depp’s best performance to date. He transitioned from understated to hyper-insane and back seemlessly.

People still triple-blink when I point out that ‘his lawyer’ is Benicio del Toro.

There is no such thing as innocence, only degrees of guilt.

by misterjonez on Dec 15, 2009 12:43 AM PST up reply actions  

The book is solid gold too

and I agree, Depp’s best work. I’m not sure who did their part better, him or Benicio Del Toro as the Attorney. I’ve read the book a few times and they bot are scary close. I can’t think of a single movie that does the book justice than Fear and Loathing. It still missed some vibe of the inner monologue, but it was close.

by chrisisasavage on Dec 15, 2009 12:49 AM PST up reply actions  

Bat Country, eh?

"Sure, I've been called a xenophobe, but the truth is, I'm not. I honestly just feel that America is the best country and the other countries aren't as good. That used to be called patriotism." -Kenny Powers

by DKulich44 on Dec 14, 2009 10:29 PM PST up reply actions  

Damn this itches.

I wonder who gave it to me.
Probably that skank who needed a ride to the gas station.
Last time I do somebody a favor.
Oh God, they must have heard me.
OH GOD, I can hear me!
AH LA LA LA LA LA LA LA LA LAAA!

Fans are typically idiots.

by The Typical Idiot Fan on Dec 14, 2009 10:38 PM PST up reply actions  

How would your projected lineup look to support this pitching?

RF Ichiro
3b Figgins
2b Lopez
DH Griffey
1B ??
CF Gutierrez
C ??
SS Wilson

So basically awork in progress. I wouldexpect offers to Bay, Johnson, Branyan etc

by MagicMike23 on Dec 14, 2009 10:34 PM PST reply actions  

You should read the content of this website before you post this much.

Almost all of these have been addressed here and at our grandma site USSMariner.

...and now I'm here

by CapSea on Dec 14, 2009 10:37 PM PST up reply actions  

Have a cold?

angels fan in seattle

by Eyebrows on Dec 14, 2009 10:46 PM PST up reply actions   1 recs

They're busy.

Zjackulation requires it.

Fans are typically idiots.

by The Typical Idiot Fan on Dec 14, 2009 10:56 PM PST up reply actions  

Famine & Drought?

I don’t see any black horses…

Fans are typically idiots.

by The Typical Idiot Fan on Dec 14, 2009 10:55 PM PST up reply actions  

I wish the Giants would do something

#1 threat to America: Pandas
Also, Tim Lincecum
Official McPokeMaster

by GrahamCrakalaka on Dec 14, 2009 10:53 PM PST reply actions  

I agree

The Giants should trade the Mariners Tim Lincecum, Matt Cain, and Pablo Sandoval for Carlos Silva, Josh Wilson, and Garret Olson. I would approve of that trade.

by chrisisasavage on Dec 14, 2009 11:56 PM PST up reply actions  

Hey guys it's ok you can all go to sleep Churchill has the answer

12:45am: Jason Churchill of Prospect Insider has had this info for quite a while today – the Phillies will get Aumont, Gillies, and righty Juan Ramirez from Seattle.

angels fan in seattle

by Eyebrows on Dec 14, 2009 11:11 PM PST reply actions  

Wait

I think this is what Churchill reported originally. If it is, I withdraw my criticism for now.

by OlSalty on Dec 14, 2009 11:30 PM PST up reply actions  

Yeah...

There is still every possibility he is right so until proven otherwise, sorry Jason.

by OlSalty on Dec 14, 2009 11:32 PM PST up reply actions  

So much for his vaunted "insider content"

Seriously! You guys need to subscribe! You can’t get this anywhere! etc…

by seattlesundevil on Dec 14, 2009 11:28 PM PST up reply actions  

It's an interesting paradox.

Churchill likely couldn’t (or wouldn’t?) do what he does if not for the tightly-knit, incurably rabid M’s blog-o-sphere, but it’s nearly impossible for him to monetize on his efforts due to the tightly-knit, incurably rabid M’s blog-o-sphere.

There is no such thing as innocence, only degrees of guilt.

by misterjonez on Dec 15, 2009 12:49 AM PST up reply actions  

Well, it seems like today was a good day.

Question: do other teams scouting departments still see Aumont as a starter? If so, that would help explain why we’re seemingly giving up so little in the deal.

by Decatur on Dec 14, 2009 11:38 PM PST reply actions  

I think the Phillies will try to use him as a starter

Whether or not he sticks there is another matter….but that’s probably what they plan to do with him considering what they’re supposedly giving up for Halladay. If any of this is even true.

by OlSalty on Dec 14, 2009 11:41 PM PST up reply actions  

It looked like Ms got Cliff Lee and undisclosed piece or pieces???

It sounded like Blanton and Happ were out taking trade physicals. Are they sending one our way? Is getting a new rotation GMZs way of distracting us when he trades Felix for Adrian Gonzalez? ack my head hurts and why is that baby on the roof.

by Whoopetydoo on Dec 14, 2009 11:49 PM PST reply actions  

I'd recommend reading other posts before posting anything yourself

Adrian Gonzalez is probably not going to be traded, if he is, it almost certainly won’t be to the M’s and it most certainly will not involve Felix. Forget about any Adrian Gonzalez pipe dreams unless something drastic changes.

by edddgar on Dec 14, 2009 11:54 PM PST up reply actions  

There's no way that makes any sense

We are just getting Lee, the only question is what we gave up for him.

by OlSalty on Dec 14, 2009 11:56 PM PST up reply actions  

Morrow to MIL?

Via Fox Sports:

M’s-Brewers discussing deal for Morrow — 12:14 a.m.

The Mariners, who remain active on multiple fronts, are discussing a trade that would send right-hander Brandon Morrow to the Brewers, according to major-league sources.

However, the deal appears unlikely due to the reluctance of Mariners general manager Jack Zduriencik to move Morrow, one source said.

It is known what the Mariners want in return for Morrow, whom the Brewers would add to a revamped rotation that has been bolstered by the addition of free-agent Randy Wolf.

Makes sense with Lee coming into the fold.

My only question is what are we getting from MIL?

by SethGrandpa on Dec 14, 2009 11:53 PM PST reply actions  

Once again, I feel we should emphasize

The rumor stipulates: They’re in talks about Brandon Morrow, and Milwaukee has not offered anything GMZ wants.

That’s not really a “getting a trade ready” so much as a “made a phone call.”

...and now I'm here

by CapSea on Dec 15, 2009 12:26 AM PST up reply actions  

Sounds like a whole lot of nothing

Mariners and Brewers discussing a deal, no mention of who Milwaukee is dealing, and Jack Z doesn’t want to trade Morrow.

Why would any reporter put this info out? I mean, I like getting updates on what’s happening, but some of the stories this offseason are getting ridiculous.

by edddgar on Dec 14, 2009 11:57 PM PST up reply actions  

Looking at it logically

I don’t see a match, unless it’s Lopez/Morrow for Weeks.

Morrow wouldn’t fetch Fielder, unless MIL is bat-shit desperate to drop his contract and they don’t like to win.

by tait644 on Dec 15, 2009 12:12 AM PST up reply actions  

Not sure Zduriencik would like Gamels

Can’t play 3B, bat is still a question mark.

by tait644 on Dec 15, 2009 12:21 AM PST up reply actions  

He certainly played a role in it

How large of one isn’t quite known and on top of that, his value for defense could be a new thing. It wasn’t too long ago that Billy Beane was selling us the idea that defense was irrelevant in Moneyball, so it’s entirely possible that Z didn’t have the same comprehension for the importance of defense then that he does now.

by edddgar on Dec 15, 2009 12:27 AM PST up reply actions  

Actually

Gamel’s bat is a bit better than I remembered.

James sure likes him for next year (.356 wOBA).

by tait644 on Dec 15, 2009 12:24 AM PST up reply actions  

Despite the fact that Bill James' projections are always very optimistic,

I think Gamel can hit. Playing third is another question, though.

by Teej on Dec 15, 2009 12:25 AM PST up reply actions  

Yeah, but we already have a third baseman in Figgins and if GMZ sees Gamel as a 1B

he can lock up that position long term, since doesn’t Gamels have 5 years of team control remaining?

by seattlebruin on Dec 15, 2009 8:28 AM PST up reply actions  

Yup

Lopez + Morrow for Fielder would be the steal of the century.

The Mariners would instant favorites

by chrisisasavage on Dec 15, 2009 12:18 AM PST up reply actions  

He's signed '10 at $10.5

According to Cot’s. He currently at 3.068 years of ML service time. So he should have one more year of arby before he hits FA.

by edddgar on Dec 15, 2009 12:24 AM PST up reply actions  

He's worth that though.

I just want at least one new player to last beyond next year so that I can become a big fan of them.

...and now I'm here

by CapSea on Dec 15, 2009 12:25 AM PST up reply actions  

Oh god.

That would be just batshit insane and after that deal’s final, we immediately sign Z to a 100-year contract extension.

by craig3410 on Dec 15, 2009 12:21 AM PST up reply actions  

They'd save like 7 million.

That’s a lot of money to save.

...and now I'm here

by CapSea on Dec 15, 2009 12:24 AM PST up reply actions  

Except

There would still need to be somebody of some value. The Brewers aren’t just going to give him away. What’s scary is Z knows the way they operate. If there’s an inefficiency in their process, he’d be the first to know. He’s got more money to play with too.

What’s funny, is at least so far, Z is on pace to blow Melvin out of the water as GM.

by chrisisasavage on Dec 15, 2009 12:35 AM PST up reply actions  

It'd be a steal and doesn't make a whole lot of sense

But if they couldn’t get it down with Braun and Fielder when they brought CC aboard, when will they? That’s the only justification I can come up.

by edddgar on Dec 15, 2009 12:21 AM PST up reply actions  

"It is known what the Mariners want..."

Is that a typo (should read: “It is NOT known…”)?

Or do we know want Jack wants for Morrow?

by tait644 on Dec 15, 2009 12:33 AM PST up reply actions  

Wow.
Seriously, dance in the streets. Build a bust of Zduriencik and place it on your mantle. Name your first born son Jack and your daughter Jackie. When this becomes official, hug someone. This trade is that good.

"Ever tried? Ever failed? No matter. Try again. Fail again. Fail better." - Samuel Beckett http://mvn.com/marinersminors/

by JY on Dec 15, 2009 5:50 AM PST up reply actions  

When did this become the PI blog?

Everyone with a retarded opinion now posts and is 100% convinced they have the right to be wrong and dumb. I forget how bad the internet is sometimes.

by Mariner John on Dec 15, 2009 1:05 AM PST reply actions  

Luckly I think the problem got taken care of

It got ugly in some of the older threads. I had flashbacks to the ITP days.

by edddgar on Dec 15, 2009 1:08 AM PST up reply actions  

It's only been a couple morons.

I propose a new rule for LL pertaining to new posters: We’ve already talked about here that people should get a good feel for the community before they post, but I would also add that it is probably not a good idea for new posters to start posting during times of high stress. Like for example, during huge transactoions. Because during these times we are all gonna be a little on edge and even crazier than usual and we are not likely to react well to new people who post stupid shit.

FUCK THE DBACKS!

by Goose on Dec 15, 2009 1:08 AM PST up reply actions  

Unfortunately that's just an impossible hope because this is exactly when people want to talk the most

I did implement a 24 hour waiting period for newbies a little while back, which has helped a little, but it hasn’t been a cure-all.

by Jeff Sullivan on Dec 15, 2009 8:21 AM PST up reply actions  

You guys should see what I am dealing with at the Times' forum
bm=starter wrote:There’s never been ANY story reported on ESPN that wasn’t true. Sure they reported that Griffey was going to ATL last year but that was true. He was going there until it leaked and he changed his mind.

by Roy Weaver Stuckey on Dec 15, 2009 2:12 AM PST reply actions  

I hate everyone on that blog.

Some of the dumbest people I have ever encountered.

by insidetheparker on Dec 15, 2009 2:15 AM PST up reply actions  

I keep having to re-read one of Jeff's posts from earlier today right before "The Trade"..
To be honest, now that Harden’s off the board, I have no idea what the front office is planning. He seemed like such a great fit that I gave little attention to devising a Plan B. But with him disappearing and Lackey maybe being next, Zduriencik is going to have to get creative.

Wow.. Talk about a creative plan B!

by Kunkoh on Dec 15, 2009 3:04 AM PST reply actions  

Fox Sports comments are even more amusing than those on Geoff Baker's blog.

One jewel I couldn’t help but notice"

Baseball77Nut. You know whats funny. For the last 5 season i have stated the halladay was the best pitcher in the game,, I used to hear nerdy americans say he cannot strike out players he cannot win close games blah blah blue.. Now one day after jays trade him.. or dumped him what ever u wanna call it.. Look at all you americans he’s the best he’s this, he’s the next tiger woods of baseball lol… hiporcritts.. look up that word… just make sure u make the spelling better

by redwolf75 on Dec 15, 2009 5:16 AM PST reply actions  

Did he just say "hippogriff"?

I am reluctant to say how I know that word.

by Johnny Slick on Dec 15, 2009 5:21 AM PST up reply actions  

A friend I know in Philadelphia...

…is also wondering why they have to give up Drabek et al and Cliff Lee to make Halladay happen. I think it’s pretty clear that Philly is in an either/or scenario and possibly do not understand the value of draft picks. This isn’t as bad as the Kevin Mitchell trade by any means but it does, at least at this point, look kind of like they’re making a show of improving their ballclub while not actually improving it a great deal.

I mean, don’t get me wrong, Halladay is better than Lee, but it’s not like they’re replacing Jason Vargas or something.

by Johnny Slick on Dec 15, 2009 5:24 AM PST reply actions  

They don't have to give up Lee....

… but clearly, they don’t want to completely deplete their farm system. Sure, if they keep Lee they can probably get draft picks, but there’s always the possibility he’s injured and they don’t want to offer arbitration, or they get less than optimal draft picks due to compensation wackiness. By dealing him now, they get to select the prospects they want. And 3 good prospects seems to be the going rate for one year of an elite SP, judging by the returns for Santana, Halladay, etc.

They have a lot of money committed to a few players over the next few years, so I suspect their fear is that if they keep Lee, they’ll end up being in a position where they have holes to fill but no budget $$ to add free agents and no upper-level prospects to plug the holes with.

In the end, they’re hedging their bets. If they keep Lee and add Halladay, they’re elite for next year, but in for some budget pain over the next 3 years or so. If they deal Lee now, they’re not quite so good next year, but in a better position for the 3 years or so after that.

by saltydog75 on Dec 15, 2009 7:07 AM PST up reply actions  

According to Buster Olney

The deal is officially complete now – Halladay has agreed to the contract extension and is currently taking his physical. Looks like we will get an announcement today!

Linky

by seattlesundevil on Dec 15, 2009 7:25 AM PST reply actions  

JC Ramirez wasn't banged up this year.

Pineda was, but Ramirez pitched pretty much the whole season.

And Gillies is 60% deaf in one ear and 30% deaf in the other, I think.

"Ever tried? Ever failed? No matter. Try again. Fail again. Fail better." - Samuel Beckett http://mvn.com/marinersminors/

by JY on Dec 15, 2009 7:45 AM PST up reply actions  

That's weird

Much like attempted murder, I’m not sure how much I agree with the idea of partial deafness.

by Jeff Sullivan on Dec 15, 2009 8:24 AM PST up reply actions  

It doesn't seem that far fetched to me.

I only get caught up on trying to figure out where the bar would be set for 100%.

Anyway, he wears hearing aids, so it’s no problem. He kind of has to in the outfield, but like when we had Ryan Ketchner, I don’t think he wore hearing aids on a regular basis, and he had even less hearing.

"Ever tried? Ever failed? No matter. Try again. Fail again. Fail better." - Samuel Beckett http://mvn.com/marinersminors/

by JY on Dec 15, 2009 8:26 AM PST up reply actions  

I have it, but not to the same extent as Gillies.

I cannot hear things said from the next room when I am at home. I hear noises when I am speaking to people, but if I am in a crowded area I almost always resort to reading lips because I just cannot hear the words clearly. It ends up sounding very jumbled and in-congruent.

by Sec 108 on Dec 15, 2009 8:29 AM PST up reply actions  

It is 10:49 am on the east coast and I am bored.

"Ever tried? Ever failed? No matter. Try again. Fail again. Fail better." - Samuel Beckett http://mvn.com/marinersminors/

by JY on Dec 15, 2009 7:49 AM PST up reply actions  

It's anything but boring being next to Philadelphia

I’m rather enjoying the sports talk radio for the first time in a while.

by cwel87 on Dec 15, 2009 7:52 AM PST up reply actions  

What is the Philadelphia talk radio consensus?

I’m having a hard time thinking of Philadelphia and sports talk radio mixed together. It seems like that would create a black hole of not brightness and suck… well, it would suck.

by Johnny Slick on Dec 15, 2009 7:54 AM PST up reply actions  

Baker had a link to the Halos Heaven reactions yesterday.

It might have been so that his own commentors suddenly looked better.

by msb on Dec 15, 2009 7:56 AM PST up reply actions   1 recs

They're flipping out

It’s really funny.

Usually I just get mad at them for constantly dicking with my boy, Mr. Donovan McNabb. This is my sweet, sweet payback.

by cwel87 on Dec 15, 2009 7:56 AM PST up reply actions  

And I'm sure this trade will be...

McNabb’s fault. Or at least Andy Reid.

"Sure, I've been called a xenophobe, but the truth is, I'm not. I honestly just feel that America is the best country and the other countries aren't as good. That used to be called patriotism." -Kenny Powers

by DKulich44 on Dec 15, 2009 8:14 AM PST up reply actions  

I'm From Philly...

That’s exactly what it is.

"Sure, I've been called a xenophobe, but the truth is, I'm not. I honestly just feel that America is the best country and the other countries aren't as good. That used to be called patriotism." -Kenny Powers

by DKulich44 on Dec 15, 2009 8:14 AM PST up reply actions  

I could imagine.

I don’t know if I could get any Philly stations in here, but eh… talk radio, especially sports talk radio, is not my cup of tea.

"Ever tried? Ever failed? No matter. Try again. Fail again. Fail better." - Samuel Beckett http://mvn.com/marinersminors/

by JY on Dec 15, 2009 7:55 AM PST up reply actions  

Oh, they're complete hacks

But it’s entertaining listening to hacks get angry when it doesn’t involve a team you care about.

by cwel87 on Dec 15, 2009 7:57 AM PST up reply actions  

I would sleep in that case.

"Ever tried? Ever failed? No matter. Try again. Fail again. Fail better." - Samuel Beckett http://mvn.com/marinersminors/

by JY on Dec 15, 2009 7:54 AM PST up reply actions  

Things will be more resolved when you wake up and you'll have 600 more comments to read.

"Ever tried? Ever failed? No matter. Try again. Fail again. Fail better." - Samuel Beckett http://mvn.com/marinersminors/

by JY on Dec 15, 2009 7:56 AM PST up reply actions  

On the off chance anyone here hasn't read Baker yet (because I hadn't until five min. ago)...

His analysis of the reax from other AL West fans is pretty fun. Wow has the balance of power in the division shifted since last week.

Jigsaw falling into place

by esoteric on Dec 15, 2009 8:19 AM PST reply actions  

I was thinking about this yesterday.

Do good GMs ever really leave teams other than due to conflicts with ownership? We could have GMZ for a long, long time. It’s not like, say, rooting for a college basketball team in the middle of nowhere that stumbles upon an amazingly awesome coach only to see him leave after a couple of years when bigger schools catch wind and offer him the moon.

by Teej on Dec 15, 2009 8:40 AM PST up reply actions  

Traditionally, no

When you get a GM job at the highest level, there isn’t much point in moving around unless there’s a substantial difference in salary between two clubs.

I don’t foresee this becoming a problem for the M’s.

by cwel87 on Dec 15, 2009 8:42 AM PST up reply actions  

Question: is this offseason more or less exciting than last offseason, so far?

Keeping in mind that it isn’t over and that some more deals are coming down the line (i.e. Branyan or LaRoche at 1B, etc.), which one has you more enthused?

I still have to go with last year. The rapid turnaround from “who is this new guy” to “holy shit this new guy is great” plus the great Putz/Gutz deal still stands out as more endorphin-y to me. Probably because of the contrast with Bavasi.

Jigsaw falling into place

by esoteric on Dec 15, 2009 8:49 AM PST reply actions  

More exciting

last year there was still certainly some trepidation at the fact that Lincoln/Armstrong hired the guy who appeared to be most “old-school,” relying on scouting over stats. Obviously this has been disproven since then, but when Jack Z was hired, there was a tinge of concern in the blogosphere. This year, it’s been more like “what the hell can GMZ do to impress us now? Wait… he just got Cliff Lee for three middling prospects?? SWEET!”

by seattlebruin on Dec 15, 2009 8:53 AM PST up reply actions  

Yeah, but that's precisely why last year was more exciting.

There was a much great “potential energy” level in that system, if you know what I mean. The swing from “oh no, did we just get Bavasi II?” to “Jesus Christ, we got Billy Beane But Better” was SO rapid and SO exhilarating and covered so much more ground for me. Our attitudes went from “no hope at all” to “joyously resurgent” within a span of days.

As great as Figgins and Lee are (and man…) I’m no longer surprised that GMZ is pulling off this sort of shit. Apparently, it’s what he does.

Jigsaw falling into place

by esoteric on Dec 15, 2009 9:02 AM PST up reply actions  

I was actually disappointed when we hired Jack.

I really liked most of the initial pool of GM candidates, but when GMZ suddenly emerged out of the blue and was hired I was upset. First blush he seemed to be another old, white yes-man that had Armstrong and Lincoln’s approval written all over him. Holy hell am I glad I was wrong.

For that matter, we haven’t had to bitch about Armstrong and Lincoln in ages. That sure is nice.

by BrianL on Dec 15, 2009 8:57 AM PST up reply actions  

Eh...

From his experience with the Brewers, we pretty much knew right away that he had a good scouting background and would probably be able to pick up undervalued players.

What we did not anticipate was bringing in Blengino/Tango and forming a monstrous stats dept. or that he would have an incredible poker face and ability to get more or less what he wanted no matter what.

"Ever tried? Ever failed? No matter. Try again. Fail again. Fail better." - Samuel Beckett http://mvn.com/marinersminors/

by JY on Dec 15, 2009 9:00 AM PST up reply actions  

My initial reaction was not at all rational.

I really had my heart set on LaCava and Ng, but you’re right. Jack’s background and track record with the Brewers was great. It’s just that when his name suddenly appeared out of nowhere I started getting bad Armstrong/Lincoln vibes.

by BrianL on Dec 15, 2009 9:05 AM PST up reply actions  

Last season for sure

This season has been like learning you have some mild superpowers. Last season was like being suddenly cleared of a malignant tumor. Superpowers are nice, but cancer sucks.

De Gutibus non disputandum est

by Bearskin Rugburn on Dec 15, 2009 9:01 AM PST up reply actions  

Exactly. Last year we were whisked off death row, released from prison and put into a nice suburban house.

This year we’re upgrading that house to a mansion. Nice, but not nearly as drastic (nor UNEXPECTED) an improvement.

Jigsaw falling into place

by esoteric on Dec 15, 2009 9:04 AM PST up reply actions  

This offseason is a heck of a lot more exciting.

Last year before this time we signed Russell Branyan for cheap and got quite a haul in a three-team trade. It was nice to see us make intelligently smooth moves for a change and given what kind of team we had previously we were looking at interesting times ahead.

This year, we signed Chone Figgins to a fair 4-year deal that makes all sorts of sense. We close in on Harden, which made a ton of sense and was on our wishlist before we lost him to Texas. We go to an alternative plan of….hauling in Cliff Lee….CLIFF LEE!? And that’s potentially while keeping our farm system intact!

It appears that not only are we going to “get good and stay good” we’re also looking to get good NOW.

Amazing.

by ThundaPC on Dec 15, 2009 9:05 AM PST up reply actions  

We got Cliff Lee and kept Saunders/Moore/Triunfel.

We didn’t give up a top five prospect in the deal. That’s how insane this is.

"Ever tried? Ever failed? No matter. Try again. Fail again. Fail better." - Samuel Beckett http://mvn.com/marinersminors/

by JY on Dec 15, 2009 9:12 AM PST up reply actions  

As reliever, I wouldn't.

I had him at six or seven I think.

"Ever tried? Ever failed? No matter. Try again. Fail again. Fail better." - Samuel Beckett http://mvn.com/marinersminors/

by JY on Dec 15, 2009 9:14 AM PST up reply actions  

Triunfel?

Even with his riskiness, he’s pretty high upside. What about Pineda? Or Cortes?

by seattlebruin on Dec 15, 2009 9:17 AM PST up reply actions  

Pineda is at the back end of the top 10 for me.

A lot of people are more concerned about his elbow than I am though. Personally, for me, since he lost no velocity or command, I don’t think his injury was that serious.

"Ever tried? Ever failed? No matter. Try again. Fail again. Fail better." - Samuel Beckett http://mvn.com/marinersminors/

by JY on Dec 15, 2009 9:19 AM PST up reply actions  

I may have double counted someone.

So, Ackley/Saunders/Moore/Triunfel.

We gave up a top five prospect, whether that’s Ramirez or Aumont for you is another story.

"Ever tried? Ever failed? No matter. Try again. Fail again. Fail better." - Samuel Beckett http://mvn.com/marinersminors/

by JY on Dec 15, 2009 9:18 AM PST up reply actions  

Really?

Where’d you hear that?

That’s a bit unusual for them, although I could easily see them having Halman drop from the top ten. Not that he should have been anywhere near #1 in the first place.

"Ever tried? Ever failed? No matter. Try again. Fail again. Fail better." - Samuel Beckett http://mvn.com/marinersminors/

by JY on Dec 15, 2009 9:30 AM PST up reply actions  

I asked

They have him as a reliever log term now

by Graham MacAree on Dec 15, 2009 9:31 AM PST up reply actions  

That's fair.

He was one of the most overrated prospects in the system for a while there.

"Ever tried? Ever failed? No matter. Try again. Fail again. Fail better." - Samuel Beckett http://mvn.com/marinersminors/

by JY on Dec 15, 2009 9:33 AM PST up reply actions  

I don't know why Philly does this deal now

I hope nobody in Philly realises that they can now have Halladay AND Lee on their roster next season. They’ll get Lee’s two picks after he walks, so they can restock their farm system some (though likely not as much as with the three players Seattle’s offering). Still…being the WS favorite in April has got to be worth something.

Shhhhhh…..

by short on Dec 15, 2009 8:59 AM PST reply actions  

What I can't figure out is why more teams haven't been rumored to be interested

If we’re getting such a steal, why aren’t, say, the Angels jumping in and offering more

Determined, Jonesing Commentor | Proud proprietor of Wyomingroutes.org & Washingtonhighways.org

by Corco on Dec 15, 2009 9:00 AM PST up reply actions  

I can't figure out why they don't just trade Blanton instead.

For like a PTBNL. He’s making almost as much as Lee.

"Sure, I've been called a xenophobe, but the truth is, I'm not. I honestly just feel that America is the best country and the other countries aren't as good. That used to be called patriotism." -Kenny Powers

by DKulich44 on Dec 15, 2009 9:01 AM PST up reply actions  

That's true...

I suppose a little bit worse farm is better than no farm.

"Sure, I've been called a xenophobe, but the truth is, I'm not. I honestly just feel that America is the best country and the other countries aren't as good. That used to be called patriotism." -Kenny Powers

by DKulich44 on Dec 15, 2009 9:04 AM PST up reply actions  

Two things

1) Clearly, the return for Lee is somewhere around market value. This is supported by the previous return for him last year, which seems to be approximately equal, deducting the time Lee spent in Philly

2) This is a time-sensitive thing. Philly has 72 hours to negotiate an extension with Halladay, right? So they can’t spend those 72 hours dickering with every GM out there. Once they have an agreement in principle, they’re going to focus on getting Halladay’s extension done. If they listen to every other offer, that might scuttle the whole thing.

by saltydog75 on Dec 15, 2009 9:10 AM PST up reply actions  

The previous return for him was ridiculaously low in my estimation

he had two years and was accompanied by Ben Francisco. The return this time around, if it is what we think it is, may well be the due to Gilles being overvalued and Aumont either thought of as a starter or some GMs still not knowing that you can get closers for not a lot.

De Gutibus non disputandum est

by Bearskin Rugburn on Dec 15, 2009 9:12 AM PST up reply actions  

I also think

that the prospects that other teams value from us are guys who are great no question, but guys we don’t mind giving up.

by SebastianPruiti on Dec 15, 2009 9:16 AM PST up reply actions  

More from good old Buster

@Buster_ESPN: It’s all moving fast: As soon as Halladay deal is done, the Jays are going to trade Michael Taylor to Oakland for Brett Wallace.

by msb on Dec 15, 2009 9:15 AM PST reply actions  

I don't know much about Taylor.

He’s a pretty big deal? Can he play center?

by Teej on Dec 15, 2009 9:25 AM PST up reply actions  

Its a great day to be a Mariner fan

Even if we only get him for one year we are now the favorites in the West with the Angels losing a fair bit.

Its nice to see what we can do with a competent GM.

"Good evening Blazer fans, wherever you may be!"-Bill Schonely

by skywaker9 on Dec 15, 2009 9:32 AM PST reply actions  

I think we almost have to be now

Us or the Rangers. We lost basically nothing and added Figgins and Lee. Our only potential problem is offense.

I think this could be a special year.

"Good evening Blazer fans, wherever you may be!"-Bill Schonely

by skywaker9 on Dec 15, 2009 9:35 AM PST up reply actions  

We lost Bedard, Washburn, Beltre, possibly Branyan

That’s nine or ten wins right there among the four of them

by Decatur on Dec 15, 2009 9:36 AM PST up reply actions  

Okay, if we lose Russel I'll give you that was big

Given that he had a career year last year.

"Good evening Blazer fans, wherever you may be!"-Bill Schonely

by skywaker9 on Dec 15, 2009 9:39 AM PST up reply actions  

He was hurt so often last year

He couldn’t give us much. I love Adrian, I really do, but he kept getting hurt.

"Good evening Blazer fans, wherever you may be!"-Bill Schonely

by skywaker9 on Dec 15, 2009 9:38 AM PST up reply actions  

Fun fact

In an injury plagued year he was still worth 2.4 WAR.

by BrianL on Dec 15, 2009 9:39 AM PST up reply actions  

Yup

As I said, I love Adrian, he was one of Bavasi’s few good moves.

"Good evening Blazer fans, wherever you may be!"-Bill Schonely

by skywaker9 on Dec 15, 2009 9:40 AM PST up reply actions  

Of course

Although Figgins should be a nice upgrade.

"Good evening Blazer fans, wherever you may be!"-Bill Schonely

by skywaker9 on Dec 15, 2009 9:41 AM PST up reply actions  

No, he's not.

Figgins basically keeps us treading water, if you figure them both as 3ish WAR players with some upside.

The upgrade is that instead of paying 12+ million, we are paying 8 million… but that’s off the field.

by eponymous_coward on Dec 15, 2009 10:52 AM PST up reply actions  

We're not the favorites right now

And we probably won’t be the favorites when we finish building the roster. But we’ve closed the gap substantially.

by OlSalty on Dec 15, 2009 9:36 AM PST up reply actions  

I mean slight favorites

I don’t mean like “Omg we’re going to win the division by 20 games favorites.”

"Good evening Blazer fans, wherever you may be!"-Bill Schonely

by skywaker9 on Dec 15, 2009 9:40 AM PST up reply actions  

The Figgins and Lee moves did a good job of fully recouping our losses from last and year and adding a few wins

And Anaheim has clearly gotten worse and doesn’t have the financial flexibility to make up for everything they’ve lost. But we were an ~80 win team true talent last year and Texas has somehow managed to get better too.

I think the division is pretty much going to be a crapshoot when all is said and done.

by OlSalty on Dec 15, 2009 9:57 AM PST up reply actions  

I had us at about 83 wins max if we spent all of our extra payroll on 4.5mil/win players.

So drop Kenji’s salary, add Figgins and Lee, and decrease market value of a win a bit and we’re somewhere in the 88 win range.

Last.fm me!

by lailaihei on Dec 15, 2009 10:22 AM PST up reply actions  

Or you could start with Dave's breakdown and make changes based on what has happened.

Here is his original WAR projection chart for the 2010 roster. The Foundation article link here.

Here are the changes so far starting with a 75 win team.
Johjima out and Moore / backup in is neutral to .5 win loss. Still at 75 wins.
Tui out and Figgins in is a +2 to 2.5 win gain. Up to 77 wins.
Josh Wilson out and Jack Wilson in is a 1.5 to 2 win gain. Up to 78.5 to 79 wins.
Langerhans out and Griffey + in is a .75 win loss. Back to 78 wins.
Lee in and back-end rotation / middle relief out is a 4 to 5 win gain. Up to 82-83 wins.

I don’t think I’ve missed any roster changes from the guys on his spreadsheet, so there we are. 82 to 83 wins with about 15 to 17 million left to spend.

by Jed MC on Dec 15, 2009 10:56 AM PST up reply actions  

Now if only we could find a better catcher

Than Rob Johnson, ugh.

"Good evening Blazer fans, wherever you may be!"-Bill Schonely

by skywaker9 on Dec 15, 2009 9:42 AM PST up reply actions  

Hey I'd take a minor upgrade

Over Johnson, its not that hard. Just someone who can be consistent behind the plate and hit around .250.

"Good evening Blazer fans, wherever you may be!"-Bill Schonely

by skywaker9 on Dec 15, 2009 9:49 AM PST up reply actions  

Yeah.

C seems to be the weak spot on the roster, assuming that we can get a decent player in at 1B and DH (read: not Griffey), though I’d like to see an upgrade in the bullpen, too (I’d like a not-too-expensive good lefty FA on a one year deal).

If you figured the M’s had ~25 million to spend, they have about 8 million left to get a couple of decent players at those positions and to fill out the roster and considering that AAAA 1B/DH guys are usually available for not a lot, we’re in solid shape. We also have Loafie and Morrow to dangle in a trade if we’d like to approach things that way (with the ability to add salary, plus Loafie’s few million or whatever)- and at this point, I think we have sufficient depth behind King Felix and Lee without Morrow (Hyphen, Snell, Silva, French, Vargas and Olson should add up to a reasonable 3-4-5 once things get sorted out in spring training).

by eponymous_coward on Dec 15, 2009 11:01 AM PST up reply actions  

I'm thinking not.

The M’s weren’t exactly close to the Angels last year. Factoring in Pythagoreans we had what, 15 wins to make up? With taking Fogginess, trading for Lee, and watching the Halos lose Lackey, we’ve made up what? 8 wins? Our chances are better but they aren’t at 50% yet.

by Johnny Slick on Dec 15, 2009 10:05 AM PST via mobile up reply actions  

stupid android spellchecker.

Renaming Chone Figgins to Chomsky Fogginess was not my idea.

by Johnny Slick on Dec 15, 2009 10:15 AM PST via mobile up reply actions   6 recs

I'd put us in the mix for the AL Central though.

You know, if the home team could decide what division they played in.

by PDXTai on Dec 15, 2009 9:38 AM PST up reply actions  

We're getting closer.

Actually, the Rangers worry me. They seem to have an actual pitching staff now, as opposed to their usual collection of undertalented young arms who get shellshocked at Arlington plus older pitchers better suited to throw BP.

by eponymous_coward on Dec 15, 2009 11:05 AM PST up reply actions  

Drayer tweet
Heading to the Figgins press conference. By all indications Lee/Halladay still a day away.

Fuck.

"Ever tried? Ever failed? No matter. Try again. Fail again. Fail better." - Samuel Beckett http://mvn.com/marinersminors/

by JY on Dec 15, 2009 9:43 AM PST reply actions  

Probably have to sign all the paperwork

And everyone has to pass physicals, etc. No big deal.

"Good evening Blazer fans, wherever you may be!"-Bill Schonely

by skywaker9 on Dec 15, 2009 9:45 AM PST up reply actions  

It seems like negotiations are done

It has been reported that it won’t be completed until Wednesday at the earliest from early on in the reports. I don’t think we need to worry about the trade falling apart unless someone fails a physical or something.

by edddgar on Dec 15, 2009 9:45 AM PST up reply actions  

Especially since

Halladay apparently has his mega-extension in place.

"Good evening Blazer fans, wherever you may be!"-Bill Schonely

by skywaker9 on Dec 15, 2009 9:47 AM PST up reply actions  

Felix, Lee, Snell, Morrow, Fistrenchargasilva

If one of either Morrow or Snell takes a nice step toward knowing where their pitches are headed, that’s nasty.

by abender20 on Dec 15, 2009 9:58 AM PST reply actions  

There is nothing wrong with this picture.

It’s from a documentary.

It's hard to convince people to let you eat them if you're an asshole. - Thingray

by Faux on Dec 15, 2009 10:08 AM PST up reply actions  

It's currently in production.

It’s all about how RRS come to be, and scientist’s attempts to determine the mass of his balls.

SPOILER ALERT:
They still don’t have instruments that will measure things that dense and large. The LHC is actually for researching better means to measure something that massive.

It's hard to convince people to let you eat them if you're an asshole. - Thingray

by Faux on Dec 15, 2009 11:20 AM PST up reply actions  

JUSTR HEARD

SO EXCITED TRYING TO REMEMBER TO BREATHE

by Omerta on Dec 15, 2009 10:38 AM PST reply actions  

Seriously how did we get so lucky

It’s like the baseball gods said: Alright, the Seattle Mariners have just dealt with five years of Bill Bavasi…it’s only just that they get the best general managerial canidate that no one ever talks about.

So happy, so very very happy to be an M’s fan today.

by Omerta on Dec 15, 2009 10:42 AM PST reply actions  

Has anyone brought up how weird it is

that this turned from a three way trade that made sense for all three teams (Aumont, Gillies, Taylor, Ramirez/Morrow/Saunders to TOR; Lee to SEA; Halladay to PHI) to the current mess, which, as far as I can tell, is two separate trades, one fair and one wildly unbalanced? Why wouldn’t Philly either hang on to Lee for a ridiculous rotation or shop him around for a better deal?

by sammy on Dec 15, 2009 10:43 AM PST reply actions  

Dave Cameron:

On FanGraphs


The Cliff Lee to Seattle portion of this trade just seems very light in return for the Phillies. They’re getting two power arms with a lot of questions marks and a speedy center fielder without a lot of power. None of these guys are top tier prospects. This is the best Philadelphia could have gotten for Lee? Really? A pu-pu platter of interesting, high-risk guys not really close to the majors for a Cy Young quality pitcher who is already well on his way to Type A free agency?

And, even if that’s true, why clear $8 million from the books by trading Lee? Surely, you could have moved Joe Blanton without eating any of his salary, even if you didn’t love the deals being offered. Or, how about this – don’t sign J.C. Romero, Brian Schneider, and Ross Gload, whose 2010 salaries are about equal to Lee’s. Replace those three reserves with league minimum guys and you’ve saved enough money to keep Lee around.

Halladay will help them, and the extension he signed is a great deal. But it just seems like they bent over backwards to make this particular deal, when there were so many other ways of going about it. It just seems to me that the Phillies could have had Halladay and Lee, and that reality would leave me pretty frustrated today if I was a Phillies fan.

by Decatur on Dec 15, 2009 10:48 AM PST up reply actions  

Seems to me Amaro/Phillies let their mancrush

on Halladay and their determination to retrieve him at all costs blind them a bit to Lee’s actual value. Or Dr. Z is a master salesman.

by Omerta on Dec 15, 2009 10:53 AM PST up reply actions  

I know this is off-topic but I don't know where else to put it:

Salk pointed this out as well, which is one of the reasons why I love him, but Chone Figgins: “It’s never a negative to be patient.”

by Zwakamatsu on Dec 15, 2009 11:59 AM PST up reply actions  

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