Some period of time open rumor thread V
1. Halladay to take physical with Phillies, trade close?
Two baseball sources told CSNPhilly.com Monday that the team is actively talking about a contract extension with representatives for the 32-year-old righthander. It is likely that the Phillies would want to sign Halladay to an extension before they traded for him. Without an extension, Halladay would be eligible for free agency after the 2010 season. One of the sources said that Halladay is likely to have a physical exam with Phillies' medical personal this week. LINKCliff Lee would likely be moved in that deal too. I'd be fine with this happening, if it meant the Angels didn't get him.
2. Hideki Matsui to Angels?
The Los Angeles Angels are in serious discussions with Hideki Matsui about supplanting Vladimir Guerrero as their designated hitter, a source familiar with the team's thinking told ESPN.com. A league source told ESPN The Magazine's Buster Olney that the Angels and Matsui were closing in on a one-year deal for about $6.5 million. LINKI'd have liked Matsui, but he wouldn't have come here anyway. Probably not a good fit for the club anyway. Seems like a good pickup for Anaheim.
3. Lackey to Red Sox...maybe
Former Los Angeles Angels ace John Lackey(notes) submitted to a physical examination by Boston Red Sox doctors Monday, according to reports, leading to speculation the free-agent right-hander was close to a contract agreement with the club. However, a source with the Angels said they are still in the running for Lackey and believe he hasn’t accepted an offer. LINKThis is the first piece I've seen that has the Angels saying they're still in it. I bet he still goes to the Red Sox. I wonder if the Mets and Angels step up bidding for Bay, or if the Angels try to beat the Phillies' offer for Halladay after this news...
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Barring an extension, why the fuck would you trade Lee to get Halladay?
Wouldn’t you need then both to beat the AL representative?
Seems retarded, unless they're getting Halladay, and getting to keep one of the top prospects.
I’d probably go for Halladay + prospect over only Lee. But if they’re just sending all the prospects to Toronto for Halladay, it really doesn’t make sense.
I’d gladly be the team to take Cliff Lee, however…
by BrettJMiller on Dec 14, 2009 12:06 PM PST up reply actions
I don't think this makes sense for the Mariners unless they are getting some sort of favorable extention
Most likely a reporter citing Rosenthal’s rosterbation as fact
Yeah, it's interesting to think about, and I think possibly doable, but I wouldn't bet on it being even a remote possibility.
by BrettJMiller on Dec 14, 2009 12:17 PM PST up reply actions
Its true
that was a remarkable deal. I guess it comes down to individual assessments of players’ potential…
De Gutibus non disputandum est
by Bearskin Rugburn on Dec 14, 2009 12:45 PM PST up reply actions
I'd give Morrow and one of Saunders, Aumont, Fields, or Tui.
Pretty much anyone but Triunfel, really. With the prospects the Phillies are sending to Toronto, that may be enough, since that means the Philies are essentially trading 2 prospects for Halladay.
by BrettJMiller on Dec 14, 2009 12:46 PM PST up reply actions
Not sure if I'd be ok with both Morrow AND Saunders
More like one of Morrow/Saunders plus one of the other three.
De Gutibus non disputandum est
by Bearskin Rugburn on Dec 14, 2009 12:48 PM PST up reply actions
You've gotta give up talent to get it.
Besides, with $25 million to spend, you’re adding $9 million in Lee, leaving $16 million. You can still get, oh, I don’t know, Matt Holliday for $16 million a year, expand payroll back to 2008 levels, and get one or both of Johnson and Branyan, and call it an offseason…ok, enough rosterbation.
by BrettJMiller on Dec 14, 2009 12:52 PM PST up reply actions
I know you've got to pay to play, I get it
I’m just figuring that Saunders plus Morrow is too much value to give up for one year of Lee. And I’m with you on the idea that 25M may be too conservative an estimate of what the team has to spend. Going back up to 110M seems like a reasonable step to take.
De Gutibus non disputandum est
by Bearskin Rugburn on Dec 14, 2009 12:59 PM PST up reply actions
Definitely wouldn't be okay with Morrow and Saunders for 1 year of Lee
And if we do sign Lee to an extension that means we don’t have money for Holliday, and with Saunders being gone in the trade you’ve suddenly got a hole in LF. Which can be filled with some temporary stopgap I guess, but none of this seems like a great use of resources to me.
Who says we don't have money for Holliday?
The M’s payroll, if they spend $25 million, will be back at it’s ~$100 level from 2009. In 2008 the spent $117 million in salary. If the right players come along and can propel us over the top, I bet the payroll could expand.
by BrettJMiller on Dec 14, 2009 12:54 PM PST up reply actions
Carrasco, Knapp, Marson, and Donald For Lee
I’d offer Aumont, Moore, Triunfel, and Juan Ramirez.
Would that be of similar value?
Would like to avoid trading Moore
Catcher’s are a pain to come by
by Graham MacAree on Dec 14, 2009 12:59 PM PST up reply actions
For an extension from Lee
I’m cool with losing him.
Just trying to find a similar package to what Philly gave up.
But we just signed whats his name...
generic brand Fruit Loops
De Gutibus non disputandum est
by Bearskin Rugburn on Dec 14, 2009 1:03 PM PST up reply actions
That was two years of Lee
and Ben Francisco came back to Philly with him.
De Gutibus non disputandum est
by Bearskin Rugburn on Dec 14, 2009 1:00 PM PST up reply actions
Oh, the possibility's faaaaar from remote...
SHOW FiFi THE MONEY!!!!
by PositivePaul on Dec 14, 2009 12:45 PM PST up reply actions
What seems likely is that they do not have the pieces they need to get Halladay from Toronto on their own
else they’d have pulled it off last summer. Trading Lee to a third party allows them to bring in a new batch of kids, some of whom will certainly go north and some will stick around. What doesn’t jive at all is the fact that Seattle doesn’t have much to offer these teams as I see it. Our valuable trade candidates are Morrow, Lopez, and Saunders. Morrow I can see, but what need does either team have of Lopez?
De Gutibus non disputandum est
by Bearskin Rugburn on Dec 14, 2009 12:13 PM PST up reply actions
But the Phillies farm is also poorer
De Gutibus non disputandum est
by Bearskin Rugburn on Dec 14, 2009 12:40 PM PST up reply actions
Maybe Lee has already said he will definately hit the FA market..
And go to the highest bidder.
I would trade Lee plus another of my own prospects to upgrade to Halladay if he is willing to sign a reasonable extension.
JD’s like, "you want some fucking pitching? Here’s all the pitching you can stand. Now choke on it, bitches!"- RCCook
Not exactly...
He’s saying what 710 thinks, and 710 may also be going back to Rosenthal for that for all we know.
Jason’s apparently going to check with some people in the Phillies org to see what’s up.
"Ever tried? Ever failed? No matter. Try again. Fail again. Fail better." - Samuel Beckett http://mvn.com/marinersminors/
Direct line to Pat Gillick!
De Gutibus non disputandum est
by Bearskin Rugburn on Dec 14, 2009 12:30 PM PST up reply actions
I saw that, I just wasn't sure how much of his "insider" content I should reveal in such a public place.
Don’t want to step on his toes.
by BrettJMiller on Dec 14, 2009 12:31 PM PST up reply actions
If you're quoting a radio show, it's not insider content.
Otherwise, I respect your discretion and would agree to do the same.
"Ever tried? Ever failed? No matter. Try again. Fail again. Fail better." - Samuel Beckett http://mvn.com/marinersminors/
Half the time
you can click on the insider stuff and read it. I was doing that and reading all his subscriber info for free, not knowing it was insider stuff. The other dude making posts kept talking about super-cool insider info for subscribers, so I bit the bullet and subscribed. Only then did I discover that I had been reading the super-cool (which it really wasn’t) info the whole time…
Yeah, don't...
Not that the Insider info is all THAT much different than what’s available elsewhere…
SHOW FiFi THE MONEY!!!!
by PositivePaul on Dec 14, 2009 12:46 PM PST up reply actions
Morosi tweets that Halladay ro Phillies deal of some sort is "close"
MLB office hasn’t granted the Phillies permission to negotiate with Halladay — yet. Might not have an announcement today. But looks close.
I'll be happy to have him out of the league
for sure.
De Gutibus non disputandum est
by Bearskin Rugburn on Dec 14, 2009 12:44 PM PST up reply actions
I think Lackey is overrated. He'd have been a fun pitcher to have and watch.
But at his price, and age, I’d rather pass.
by BrettJMiller on Dec 14, 2009 12:59 PM PST up reply actions
DEAL REACHED, LEE TO M'S
No word on who exactly is going where other than Halladay to Philly, Lee to Seattle
by ManifestDestiny on Dec 14, 2009 12:57 PM PST reply actions
Exactly
Lopez doesnt make sense here. I’m thinking Morrow Tui MiL reliever
De Gutibus non disputandum est
by Bearskin Rugburn on Dec 14, 2009 1:08 PM PST up reply actions
Not sure why but I'm convinced Aumont will be involved
and if he turns out to be the ‘main guy’ we give up then I’d be pretty happy.
Fuck Anaheim.
ONE TWO ROUNDHOUSE KICK TO THE TEMPLE/GROIN
De Gutibus non disputandum est
by Bearskin Rugburn on Dec 14, 2009 1:05 PM PST up reply actions
You really neednt worry
De Gutibus non disputandum est
by Bearskin Rugburn on Dec 14, 2009 1:04 PM PST up reply actions
I know you don't but you should
Everythign Z has done shows that he stands by his price, not by his target.
De Gutibus non disputandum est
by Bearskin Rugburn on Dec 14, 2009 1:06 PM PST up reply actions
EAT IT RICH HARDEN
De Gutibus non disputandum est
by Bearskin Rugburn on Dec 14, 2009 1:02 PM PST reply actions
This is great. We know theres a big trade for an overvalued asset
and I have zero fear that we gave up more than we should have.
De Gutibus non disputandum est
by Bearskin Rugburn on Dec 14, 2009 1:04 PM PST reply actions
I'm excited but terrified at the same time
My Mariners blog - SodoMojo, Twitter Feed, Fuck the fucking Angels!
He just said he was verifying who we were getting.
Not necessarily that there wasn’t an agreement in place. Everyone else says our involvement was always about Lee.
by BrettJMiller on Dec 14, 2009 1:08 PM PST up reply actions
Me too
I’d love to have him locked up for 3 years or so
My Mariners blog - SodoMojo, Twitter Feed, Fuck the fucking Angels!
I REALLY don't think Lee's going to settle for a 3 year deal
no incentive to do so whatsoever.
De Gutibus non disputandum est
by Bearskin Rugburn on Dec 14, 2009 1:09 PM PST up reply actions
Ehhhh
I hear you. I like him a lot, and I get a chubby just thinking about a Felix/Lee 1-2 for a few years to come. But tying up half the team’s payroll in three players seems like a bad idea, particularly if two of them are pitchers. Everyone’s at risk for injury, but starters’ injuried tend to be catastrophic.
De Gutibus non disputandum est
by Bearskin Rugburn on Dec 14, 2009 1:12 PM PST up reply actions
one of the reasons
the Phils are movign him is that he said he would not give a hometown discount and wanted to try FA…
JD’s like, "you want some fucking pitching? Here’s all the pitching you can stand. Now choke on it, bitches!"- RCCook
Heyman's "tweak" still says a deal has been agreed to.
The Phillies are in agreement on a three-team trade with the Mariners and Blue Jays to acquire star pitcher Roy Halladay, SI.com has learned.
Sources say Halladay will agree to a contract extension to complete the deal. It’s expected to be a formality.
The Phillies have discussed Cliff Lee in trades, but it isn’t confirmed who the Mariners would be receiving in this deal.
Churchill says we got a fucking steal.
Aumont is one of them, and the other two, holy shit, we did really really good.
710 just announced it. Tyson Gillies, Philippe Aumont, Juan Ramirez.
by BrettJMiller on Dec 14, 2009 1:26 PM PST up reply actions
That is nothing....
major steal
Looks like it is a rental all the way
JD’s like, "you want some fucking pitching? Here’s all the pitching you can stand. Now choke on it, bitches!"- RCCook
So, don't the Angels already have a DH who is a former Yankee outfielder?
What the hell are they doing with Matsui?
FUCK THE DBACKS!
That would make this offseason so awesome.
It’d be even better if we snagged Holliday… :o
by BrettJMiller on Dec 14, 2009 3:08 PM PST up reply actions
Seems unlikely
Given the money that’s already tied up in their OF. Besides, who will pitch for them? They’re looking at what, Weaver/Saunders as their 1-2?
De Gutibus non disputandum est
by Bearskin Rugburn on Dec 14, 2009 3:57 PM PST up reply actions
By which I mean, yes, please, make it happen Reagins.
De Gutibus non disputandum est
by Bearskin Rugburn on Dec 14, 2009 3:58 PM PST up reply actions
Mike Cameron to Boston?
They’re talking, Rosenthal Tweets.
Looks like they’re letting Bay walk. Maybe saving some of that money for Beltre? … :(
Yep, the signing of Lackey pretty much ensured that
Probably using that money for Beltre/Cammy
Lame
“7:53pm: Mike Cameron has agreed to sign with Boston, the AP reports.”
My Mariners blog - SodoMojo, Twitter Feed, Fuck the fucking Angels!
I now hate the Red Sox less.
I just hope they appreciate his awesomeness there.
by I Lick Squirrels on Dec 14, 2009 6:29 PM PST up reply actions
Well here's a rumor we can all get behind:
DSpxp @d_a_cameron Ya like the trademark hats? We’ll see what we can do for 2010!
(DSpxp is Dave Sims.)
by Aaron Campeau on Dec 14, 2009 9:08 PM PST reply actions 2 recs
Wait does this mean a line of Dave Sims brand hats
or just Dave Sims wearing more hats?
Either way yay!
Actually now he is throwing out the idea of his own line of hats
@MarinerHwife Re: Dave Sims hats—you guys are awesome. Mucho thanks. I’ll have to start my own hat line. This could be big.
[DELETED ZOMG NO POLITICS]
I would buy Dave Sims hat.
Racer X. You have to love those amarillo hops.
p.s. fuck you angels
Can this day get any better?
Fans are typically idiots.
by The Typical Idiot Fan on Dec 14, 2009 10:42 PM PST up reply actions
Back the fuck up
Why am I being notified now that I can follow Dave Sims on twitter?
This offseason is so boring.
...and now I'm here
It says they're one of the few viable alternatives to St. Louis.
It doesn’t say what kind of offer we have if any.
"Ever tried? Ever failed? No matter. Try again. Fail again. Fail better." - Samuel Beckett http://mvn.com/marinersminors/
by JY on Dec 15, 2009 9:32 AM PST up reply actions
Kenny Williams, ladies and gents.
Fans are typically idiots.
by The Typical Idiot Fan on Dec 15, 2009 10:40 AM PST up reply actions
Hilarious
White Sox only paying $8 million of the $18.5 million left, but Dodgers get two prospects.
[DELETED ZOMG NO POLITICS]
Could be something like what we got for Yuni
De Gutibus non disputandum est
by Bearskin Rugburn on Dec 15, 2009 11:47 AM PST up reply actions
I can't imagine they'll be great
This is just more Dodgers cost cutting. The McCourt divorce is ruining the team. Still glad to be rid of Pierre!
[DELETED ZOMG NO POLITICS]
At least they get something and are rid of some of Pierre's contract.
Unless it’s two LaHairs or Morses, may as well take it.
True Blue LA has profiles for 2 possible guys coming over
Also wow, the Dodgers are paying $17 million to guys who won’t play for them next year. Ouch.
[DELETED ZOMG NO POLITICS]
We're paying 12M to a guy who would make us worse if he did play
De Gutibus non disputandum est
by Bearskin Rugburn on Dec 15, 2009 1:09 PM PST up reply actions
I just realised the Angels have nearly 50M tied up in
Rivera/HunterAbreu/Matsui/GMJ next year.
De Gutibus non disputandum est
by Bearskin Rugburn on Dec 15, 2009 10:20 AM PST reply actions
GMJ is the only one of them that is truely horrible
by Edgar for Pres on Dec 15, 2009 10:22 AM PST up reply actions
But en masse that's 50M for an average OF+DH.
Their cumulative projection is about nine wins. I don’t know whether to laugh because they have so much money wasted or to cry because their farm was so fucking productive for the last several years.
De Gutibus non disputandum est
by Bearskin Rugburn on Dec 15, 2009 10:36 AM PST up reply actions
You guys see this
Holliday got offered 8yr/16mil per year = 8/128
by Edgar for Pres on Dec 15, 2009 10:36 AM PST reply actions
Yes its in Poochie's link a few posts up
I’m wondering if he’d rather take something like 4/80 so he can get another contract at 33. Unikely, but one can dream.
De Gutibus non disputandum est
by Bearskin Rugburn on Dec 15, 2009 10:38 AM PST up reply actions
Since when do the Cardinals have that kind of money?
by Graham MacAree on Dec 15, 2009 10:41 AM PST up reply actions
So instead they're giving all of that money to Matt Holliday
by Graham MacAree on Dec 15, 2009 10:44 AM PST up reply actions
At least it makes it more likely that they won't have money for Pujols.
by BrettJMiller on Dec 15, 2009 10:46 AM PST up reply actions
I love that HOlliday for 8/128 is still better than Vernon Wells's deal
by Graham MacAree on Dec 15, 2009 10:49 AM PST up reply actions
Way to to set the bar
De Gutibus non disputandum est
by Bearskin Rugburn on Dec 15, 2009 10:53 AM PST up reply actions
It's not like give Pujols a $7/8m raise is going to bankrupt them
They can run $100m payrolls, new ballpark and all
That's kind of sad for us.
Racer X. You have to love those amarillo hops.
p.s. fuck you angels
Anyone watching the Figgins press conference?
He must know Cliff Lee is on his way, he looks awfully happy.
WHO THE FUCK DOES HE THINK HE IS STEALING JEFFIES NUMBER
by Graham MacAree on Dec 15, 2009 11:19 AM PST up reply actions
We at least now have two #9's on the team according to the roster on the M's website.
So Jack Wilson and Chone Figgins are a thieving duo.
by BrettJMiller on Dec 15, 2009 11:22 AM PST up reply actions
That's actually sort of intriguing to think of.
If we sign Randy again does he get 51 or does Ichiro?
Ichiro without a doubt
Determined, Jonesing Commentor | Proud proprietor of Wyomingroutes.org & Washingtonhighways.org
or on days Randy Johnson is pitching he wears 51 and Ichiro wears some other number but Ichiro wears it the rest of the time
Determined, Jonesing Commentor | Proud proprietor of Wyomingroutes.org & Washingtonhighways.org
For the amusement of all:
I submit a flawed prospect list.
Not Erasmo Ramirez in the top ten flawed, but flawed.
"Ever tried? Ever failed? No matter. Try again. Fail again. Fail better." - Samuel Beckett http://mvn.com/marinersminors/
And no Moore or Tui.
"Ever tried? Ever failed? No matter. Try again. Fail again. Fail better." - Samuel Beckett http://mvn.com/marinersminors/
No idea.
Top Prospect Alert was better for the giggles, but they got two things right. One of them was not Poythress’ name.
#1 Dustin Ackley
#2 Michael Saunders
#3 Alex Liddi
#4 Phillipe Aumont
#5 Julio Morban
#6 Tyson Gillies
#7 Rich Polythress
#8 Greg Halman
#9 Erasmo Ramirez
#10 Gabriel Noriega
"Ever tried? Ever failed? No matter. Try again. Fail again. Fail better." - Samuel Beckett http://mvn.com/marinersminors/
Holliday not offered 8-year deal?
ESPN.com’s Buster Olney hears that the Cardinals don’t believe many teams are competing for Holliday on the level they are. Olney says the Cards intend to stand by a five-year offer – that’s considerably short of the eight-year deal hinted at yesterday.
The Yankees have no intention of bidding on Holliday, according to Olney’s sources.
GIVE HIM SIX, JACK
Oh thank heavens there's still hope
Jack seems way too risk averse to do anything like 8
De Gutibus non disputandum est
by Bearskin Rugburn on Dec 15, 2009 11:48 AM PST up reply actions
Cameron re-tweeted a nugget about Langerhans from Matt Pittman
Awesome. RT @mattpitman: Jack Z tells media Ms have a strong desire to bring Langerhans back and hope to finalize it in the next few days.
Then he becomes a strong trade chip
It’s pretty likely that if we spend the money necessary to acquire Holliday, we’ll have to beg, barter, and steal a few more wins from around the league, unless our front office has deeper pockets then we know.
Also, it really wouldn’t be a huge deal, because Holliday is a proven six-win player, and it would likely take a six-year contract to land him here anyway. The only matter at that point would be extracting proper value from a club in exchange for Saunders..which, needless to say, I have the utmost confidence we would do so.
The Nationals are talking about signing Jason Marquis, who apparently is retarded.
“I want to play for a team that is headed in the right direction and making the moves that is necessary to get themselves back to being a winning organization,” Marquis said. “Some of the moves the Nationals have made — like [signing Stephen Strasburg] signing Pudge [Ivan Rodriguez] and getting [Brian Bruney] — they are making the necessary steps. I feel I can fit right in and bring a winning attitude to the team. Every where I’ve been, I’ve won. I feel it’s not a coincidence. I want to help a team get over the hump.”
All Hail Zduriencik!
HOLY SHIT WE'RE IN ON BAY
Should we rule out the Mariners landing Jason Bay, now that they have signed Chone Figgins and are acquiring Cliff Lee?
No.
One person with knowledge of the team’s plans said Bay remains a "possibility" for the Mariners, because of the team’s need for a run-producing right-handed bat in the middle of the order. Seattle could lose third baseman Adrian Beltre and first baseman Russell Branyan to free agency, creating a void in the lineup.
Would Bay take a competitive four-year offer from the Mariners over a five-year offer from the Mets? That is unclear. But there is little doubt that the Mariners have a better chance than the Mets of reaching the postseason in 2010.
Bay lives in the Seattle area. In this case, he could both stay close to home and play for a team that is rapidly becoming the darling of the ’09-’10 Hot Stove season. —Jon Paul Moros
If there's anything we've learned this winter and last
if there’s a player Zduriencik wants to get we won’t hear a whisper about it until he’s pretty much signed/traded for.
De Gutibus non disputandum est
by Bearskin Rugburn on Dec 16, 2009 7:39 AM PST up reply actions
Ah, the Mets.
This team has Wright, Reyes, Beltran, and Santana, and no one expects them to make the playoffs. That’s over 20 wins in 4 roster spots, all signed to reasonable contracts. And they’re the second richest team in baseball. And their GM still has a job.
by Manzanillos Cup on Dec 16, 2009 9:48 AM PST up reply actions
Dude, I fucking searched his name and everything.
God dammit that’s really embarrassing. Shoot.
Aw there there
No need to beat yourself up over this
No, Kermit, just keep beating yourself up
I want to poop at your house - Thingray
by tootthekazoo on Dec 15, 2009 10:30 PM PST up reply actions
I agree with this post.
Not enough to rec it but I agree.
by Johnny Slick on Dec 15, 2009 10:51 PM PST up reply actions
YOU DIS MY DOGG YOU FLUFF MY HOG!!!
angels fan in seattle
by Eyebrows on Dec 15, 2009 11:31 PM PST up reply actions 3 recs
Okay, so I can't find anything about it on this site in the past, so:
Vladimir Guerrero, Yay or Nay, and what contract would be acceptable were it to happen. He’s apparently looking for 2 year, which usually means teams are only offering him one year.
...and now I'm here
You don't think he could be had for cheap?
And we do need a DH. Or at least a good hitter. The market for him seems to have died, with Matsui claiming only 6.5 million. It doesn’t seem impossible to get him on a 1/6 contract, and I don’t necessarily see the harm, but I’m happy to hear otherwise. I’m not sold on my own position.
...and now I'm here
Nick Johnson, Carlos Delgado, Luke Scott, Russell Branyan
A list I thought up in three seconds of free agents that will likely be of significantly more value to their respective teams in 2010 then Vladimir Guerrero. And all of them can play a position we need to fill, or at least can take the field for a day.
What do you think Guerrero would even be willing to sign for? I doubt he’d take less then the likes of Branyan, and maybe even Johnson.
Yeah, but those players being available will bring down his cost.
and as far as I can tell, no one seems to want Guererro. I wouldn’t be shocked if he signed as an AL team’s DH for 4 million, unless stupid national league teams that think he has some sort of defensive value start putting their names in.
...and now I'm here
The Braves were on the verge last year of signing Ken Griffey Jr. to be their starting left fielder
If they move Lowe’s contract, who the hell knows what they’re capable of.
The thing to keep in mind is we have an outstanding GM. We’re unbelievably lucky in this respect. Most teams do not have that luxury, and I’m sure there are some GMs out there that would be willing to pay Guerrero significantly more then he’s worth because he’s ‘been through the wars’ (when the reality is the only thing about Vlad that’s been through wars are his knees) and is a diminished superstar who will put some asses in seats.
I just think there’s way more value for a GM like Zduriencik to find in this market then Vladimir Guerrero.
At the moment, I still don't see any desire for his services which will put his price tag at like 5 million or less.
Which is a good deal, even for the Mariners – especially for a stop gap DH role. But if he gets any more than that, which is possible, of course, then I don’t want him. At the moment, though, I don’t see any evidence that he’s going to get more money than that, and despite how overvalued he once was, that makes him undervalued.
...and now I'm here
We'll agree to disagree
I still think Vlad nets about a 2/14 deal, and that’s not something I’m at all willing to pay.
Well we don't disagree on that part at least.
...and now I'm here
I think you have to give him at least a long look
At DH I think he would fit at the right price.
by Edgar for Pres on Dec 16, 2009 9:07 AM PST up reply actions
He was a crappy hitter last year
There is a big difference
by Edgar for Pres on Dec 16, 2009 12:01 PM PST up reply actions
He hasn't been good in a while
and when guys with old-player skills suddenly start to decline, run for your life
by seattlebruin on Dec 16, 2009 12:02 PM PST up reply actions
Since when did Guerrero have old player skills?
by nathaniel dawson on Dec 16, 2009 12:04 PM PST up reply actions
Should have been more clear
not in the traditional sense like Dave Cameron posted, but he’s never had good plate discipline and now no longer has the bat speed to punish mistakes. I want as far away from him as possible.
by seattlebruin on Dec 16, 2009 12:12 PM PST up reply actions
I don't think there is evidence to back that up
I’m guessing a decrease in bat speed would lead to:
More strikeouts
Less well hit balls (lower LD% and BABIP)
Lower power numbers
Also, this decrease in ability must have been in 2009 because he was a great hitter in 2007 and a very good hitter in 2008.
His strikeout numbers in 2009 are the same as in 2008.
He has higher LD% in 2009 than in the past and his BABIP is still high.
He did hit for less power (slightly lower ISO and HR/FB) however it was not a drastic decrease and might be linked to injuries. Also, he hasn’t changed his approach at the plate drastically and his contact numbers aren’t decreasing.
Next year probably will be closer to 2009 than 2007 but that’s not that bad.
by Edgar for Pres on Dec 16, 2009 1:28 PM PST up reply actions
Actually,
good plate discipline has been one of the hallmarks of an old player skill. Although, in Vlad’s case, I’d argue that he has shown good plate discipline throughout his career. He’s always had fairly good walk rates and low strikeouts, and he has certainly had the ablility to distinguish between the pitches he can hit and can’t hit. He goes about it in an unusual manner, but the end result was an extremely effective hitter.
by nathaniel dawson on Dec 16, 2009 1:53 PM PST up reply actions
Vlad make Jose Lopez look like
Todd Helton.
Also, he can’t distinguish between the pitches he can hit and can’t hit. He can hit all of them. He’s a freak.
by Edgar for Pres on Dec 17, 2009 12:01 AM PST up reply actions
What is your definition of good?
He has been a good hitter. Even last year he was a good hitter. His fielding sucks but if he is a DH that doesn’t matter.
by Edgar for Pres on Dec 16, 2009 1:20 PM PST up reply actions
I don't consider DHs with a wOBA of .343 good
by seattlebruin on Dec 16, 2009 1:56 PM PST up reply actions
What about a player with a 3-yr average wOBA of 0.370?
by Edgar for Pres on Dec 17, 2009 12:03 AM PST up reply actions
With massive fall-off-a-cliff potential and that's already been in decline every year since 2004?
no thanks
by seattlebruin on Dec 17, 2009 9:58 AM PST up reply actions
I think you are
making a mistake of assuming that his decline last year was based on age and not considering his injuries enough (although health/playing time would be a good concern). He was on the DL last year twice for rather serious muscle issues.
Both these trips to the DL were before the all star break.
Before ASB: .290/.319/.415
After ASB: .300/.347/.498
CHONE projection: 0.288/0.335/0.491
Unless injured, I’d assume Vlad probably returns to his old self. You are correct that he has declined slightly over the past few years and this will probably continue but I think he’s gonna return to a productive player. He hasn’t been talked about much however depending on the money, I think his name should be up there with Branyan, Johnson, Delgado and all the other 1B/DH options we are looking at.
by Edgar for Pres on Dec 17, 2009 1:11 PM PST up reply actions
When old guys get hurt in their knees and back were having knee and back problems to begin with
I don’t see them miraculously recovering most of the time.
by seattlebruin on Dec 17, 2009 5:20 PM PST up reply actions
Agree to disagree on our projections going forward with him.
I know what you see in him. I’m optimistic and you are pessimistic.
by Edgar for Pres on Dec 17, 2009 5:44 PM PST up reply actions
Vlad is a couple of years younger than I am and some things
never return to normal at our age. Your optimism is strange.
He clearly shouldn't be in the field, so throw that out of the equation.
Despite running like some sort of wounded centaur, he managed to BABIP right along with his career average. He swings at 44!% of pitches out of the zone and 82% of pitches in it. He isn’t selective. As far as old player skills go, walking more is pretty helpful towards maintaining value. He doesn’t have much interest in that. Yeah, he’s a better hitter than Griffey. Branyan is way better. I’d rather bring in someone who walks and is actually useful as a DH (~.370ish) then someone who is a few ticks of batspeed away from being brutal.
In other words, Griffey's perfect platoon partner
De Gutibus non disputandum est
by Bearskin Rugburn on Dec 16, 2009 7:40 AM PST up reply actions
Larry Stone tweets:
The Mariners aren’t going to let Adrian Gonzalez go to the Red Sox without a fight.
Huh.
"Ever tried? Ever failed? No matter. Try again. Fail again. Fail better." - Samuel Beckett http://mvn.com/marinersminors/
I don't know
I’m sure Prince Fielder would look like he costs more, talent-wise…but we already know the Brewers are in love with Morrow. It would take substantially more than that, sure, but nevertheless, having a piece already in place gives it some credence.
Also, it’s Milwaukee, and Jack obviously has a strong rapport with the front office there. f I had to speculate which of the two I’d think is more likely, it’d have to be Fielder.
Their budget for the last couple of years has been ~80M, up from 40M in 05
presumably this is because they expected to win it all. They need more pitching, have quality pre-arb hitters to step in, and their team payroll is already around 70M by my count. I think they have every incentive to trade a guy like Fielder and use his money elsewhere.
I don’t want to speculate about how they feel about Morrow, or what FA starters they could target with the freed up cash. But the situation seems to make sense.
De Gutibus non disputandum est
by Bearskin Rugburn on Dec 16, 2009 8:46 AM PST up reply actions
Fielder had the second best wOBA in the NL last season, and he only makes $10m per
He’s a bargain
I don’t see why the Brewers would pay big money for Wolf if they planned on unloading Fielder. A trade for Gamel or Weeks would be more likely
Maybe so. But i have to wonder if they can maintain their current payroll
in the midst of a recession etc etc. Anyway. If there’s something happening there we won’t hear about it till its pretty much done, so.
De Gutibus non disputandum est
by Bearskin Rugburn on Dec 16, 2009 9:21 AM PST up reply actions
Yes.
I’m not all that convinced that he’s worth what San Diego will ask for him. His defense doesn’t seem to live up to its reputation, and CHONE has him at .276/.362/.519 next year. Not sure I’d clear out the farm for that.
by Manzanillos Cup on Dec 16, 2009 9:25 AM PST up reply actions
Not at 1B at any rate
De Gutibus non disputandum est
by Bearskin Rugburn on Dec 16, 2009 10:25 AM PST up reply actions
.276/.362/.519 is really really good in the worst hitter's park in baseball, however.
by BrettJMiller on Dec 16, 2009 11:02 AM PST up reply actions
That's basically his 2008.
When he was a 3.5 win player.
by Manzanillos Cup on Dec 16, 2009 11:50 AM PST up reply actions
I still wonder how his overall line would change, thus affecting his WAR, if he played in a regular sized park.
Safeco would even help him with the short porch in RF
by BrettJMiller on Dec 16, 2009 12:29 PM PST up reply actions
Twitter:
Blue Jays sign male porn actor to minor league deal
De Gutibus non disputandum est
by Bearskin Rugburn on Dec 16, 2009 8:05 AM PST reply actions
I was about to say...
I thought Tadano went back to the NPB?
"Ever tried? Ever failed? No matter. Try again. Fail again. Fail better." - Samuel Beckett http://mvn.com/marinersminors/
by JY on Dec 16, 2009 8:10 AM PST up reply actions
Nah. Just a great name.
De Gutibus non disputandum est
by Bearskin Rugburn on Dec 16, 2009 8:11 AM PST up reply actions
Sorry to state the obvious but I feel I must.
Good news if he ends up re-signing with the M’s, terrible news if he signs with the Angels.
by Johnny Slick on Dec 16, 2009 3:25 PM PST up reply actions
Copying from the other thread....Beltre to not go to Boston?
Twitter:
Don’t expect Beltre or Holliday either. Kotchman likely to open season at first, Youkilis at 3d. Not etched in stone, but it looks that way.
This was quicker than I anticipated, but...
"Ever tried? Ever failed? No matter. Try again. Fail again. Fail better." - Samuel Beckett http://mvn.com/marinersminors/
Two Orioles transactions, and Nick Johnson news.
According to Sports Illustrated’s Jon Heyman, Mike Gonzalez is signing a two-year deal worth $12 million, with an additional $4 million in incentives.
Gonzalez immediately becomes Baltimore’s best bet to open the season as closer. The Type-A free agent will not cost Baltimore its’ first-rounder, so Atlanta ends up with no first rounders out of their departed relievers in Gonzalez and Rafael Soriano.
The Baltimore Sun is reporting that the Orioles have signed 3B Garrett Atkins to a one-year deal, salary unknown.
It’s a good landing spot for Atkins, who will be handed the starting job and can work to rebuild his value. The 30-year old hig just .226 with nine home runs for the Rockies in 2009, but averaged 25 home runs the previous three seasons. In the span of one day, the Orioles have addressed their two biggest holes.
The Yankees are speaking to Nick Johnson about joining the team as designated hitter, reports the New York Posts’ George King.
All Hail Zduriencik!
GOD I hope he doesn't go to the Yankees
My Mariners blog - SodoMojo, Twitter Feed, Fuck the fucking Angels!
Well that's balls
also, how does Baltimore avoid sending their picks to Atlanta? Did they not offer arb to Gonzalez?
De Gutibus non disputandum est
by Bearskin Rugburn on Dec 17, 2009 10:57 AM PST up reply actions
Of course
De Gutibus non disputandum est
by Bearskin Rugburn on Dec 17, 2009 11:37 AM PST up reply actions
Also,
the Yanks need the DH spot for Posada much of the time and are better served by a guy like Swisher who acts as a 4th outfielder/DH. I don’t see why they go for Johnson over resigning Damon or getting Bay. More value for similar money.
De Gutibus non disputandum est
by Bearskin Rugburn on Dec 17, 2009 11:00 AM PST up reply actions
They should be
De Gutibus non disputandum est
by Bearskin Rugburn on Dec 17, 2009 11:39 AM PST up reply actions
Except it did for Pat Burrell and Bobby Abreu.
De Gutibus non disputandum est
by Bearskin Rugburn on Dec 17, 2009 1:07 PM PST up reply actions
Oh?
Baker says that someone in New York says that the Mariners talked to Damon’s agent
"Ever tried? Ever failed? No matter. Try again. Fail again. Fail better." - Samuel Beckett http://mvn.com/marinersminors/
That fits into Zduriencik's pattern of misdirection and obfuscation
and not into his pattern of bringing in awesome players on good contracts. So, good for Damon’s agent for having what was likely a charming and completely unproductive chat with our GM.
De Gutibus non disputandum est
by Bearskin Rugburn on Dec 17, 2009 12:48 PM PST up reply actions
yea, that's likely
But I always get a sort of “OH GOD NO” feeling when I see it up on MLBTR. It fits Jack’s style of misdirection, but I always get this sinking feeling that…
Avatars make the site look pretty. I still don't have one.
by perfectstrat on Dec 17, 2009 1:49 PM PST up reply actions
Also, Damon is batshit crazy
I heard from someone who works around the Mariners that after Bill Bavasi was fired in 2008, and the Mariners were searching for a new general manager, Damon actually was telling people he would be interested in the job. This person insisted that Damon seemed dead serious, even though he was still an active player.
The only chance this happens is if it’s February, the Mariners still have a hole at DH and Damon realizes he won’t get close to his current demands.
If this were someone else's team, and that happened, it would be awesome.
"Ever tried? Ever failed? No matter. Try again. Fail again. Fail better." - Samuel Beckett http://mvn.com/marinersminors/
by JY on Dec 17, 2009 2:38 PM PST up reply actions
The man has a painting of the last supper in his living room
with himself as Jesus. It’s so awesome.
De Gutibus non disputandum est
by Bearskin Rugburn on Dec 17, 2009 2:40 PM PST up reply actions
The rest of the 04 Sox are his apostles
no word on who is Judas. For serious,
De Gutibus non disputandum est
by Bearskin Rugburn on Dec 17, 2009 2:55 PM PST up reply actions
Well, to be fair, I'd be totally interested in being the Mariners' GM, too
Doesn’t mean I believe there’s a chance it would ever happen though
So I would not normally put anything into the rumor that the Red Sox are trying to get Adrian Gonzales from the Pads...
…except that Theo is involved. When is the point in which he transitions from the uber-hot Cosby commodity that he is now and becomes the decent but nowhere near as awesome Malcom from Malcom and Eddie?
I hear Ellsbury is one of the chips the Sawx are offering. What else would it take the Pads to send him out?
Bucholz
and it’s not real likely to happen
De Gutibus non disputandum est
by Bearskin Rugburn on Dec 17, 2009 12:45 PM PST up reply actions
We should get Bucholz
That’d be cool. Jeremy Reed is a FA this year I think. Sign and trade?
by Edgar for Pres on Dec 17, 2009 1:13 PM PST up reply actions
Rosenthal reports the Giants are offering Nick Johnson something on the order of 1yr/6M
If that’s about where the negotiations are then I don’t see why we can’t make a better offer (lets say 2/12, or 1/7 + vesting option?)
Get those deal glands salivating Jack.
De Gutibus non disputandum est
by Bearskin Rugburn on Dec 17, 2009 1:57 PM PST reply actions
I wish the Yankees hired Kenny Williams or maybe Herk Robinson.
Nothing would help league parity more than if the Yanks were run by morons. As it stands, $6M for Nick Johnson is far too reasonable.
by Johnny Slick on Dec 17, 2009 2:21 PM PST up reply actions
Ed Price twitter
I hear #Cardinals not inclined to offer Holliday above 5-6 yrs x $15M. Team seems to think just as good using $ to fill number of positions.
All Hail Zduriencik!
If Z can't quite afford him.
I have a drawing of an 8 legged spider I value at about 15 million I’d be willing to donate.
...and now I'm here
That's been around for a few days.
"Ever tried? Ever failed? No matter. Try again. Fail again. Fail better." - Samuel Beckett http://mvn.com/marinersminors/
by JY on Dec 17, 2009 2:43 PM PST up reply actions
Question -
has Crede resigned with the Twins or is he still available?
De Gutibus non disputandum est
by Bearskin Rugburn on Dec 17, 2009 3:01 PM PST reply actions
Ugh
“5:14pm: Newsday’s Ken Davidoff agrees that the Yankees and Johnson are engaged in “serious discussions,” but notes that Johnson has yet to take a physical."
COME ON JACK!
My Mariners blog - SodoMojo, Twitter Feed, Fuck the fucking Angels!
I don't want any part of Damon.
Although, if the Rich Harden thing is any indication, after Johnson signs with the Yanks, we’ll trade a bucket of balls for Adrian Gonzalez a few days afterwards.
All Hail Zduriencik!
So Arredondo is possibly the luckiest person alive
So it the past 7 days, Arredondo has announced he’s getting major elbow surgery that will cost him the 2010 season, gotten non-tendered, and now stabbed. All in all, a pretty solid week.
I don't see this happening, because the last time he was on a west coast team, he forced his way out but...
According to ESPN.com’s Jayson Stark, the Angels “have turned their attention to” acquiring Javier Vazquez from the Braves.
Vazquez has one year and $11.5 million left on his contract, which makes him an ideal candidate for trade fodder, but he went 15-10 this past season with an impressive 2.87 ERA and 1.03 WHIP. The Braves would certainly rather get rid of Derek Lowe and the $45 million remaining on his current deal. Vazquez also has a no-trade clause and might not want to head west.
All Hail Zduriencik!
Nick Johnson is a Yankee
Let’s go get Gamel
by ManifestDestiny on Dec 17, 2009 4:15 PM PST reply actions
Yeah I think I would have given him 2yr/12mil
If thats all it was gonna take.
by Edgar for Pres on Dec 17, 2009 5:59 PM PST up reply actions
Well that sucks
I would have to think that the M’s or Giants were willing to go for at least $5.5M. He probably just preferred the Yanks over us or the Giants and why not? They provide his best opportunity to win. At least we made a run at him, I’m sure Zduriencik has something else up his sleeve.
The market for Nick Johnson type players is collapsing at such a ridiculous degree it's not even funny.
Baseball has gotten a lot smarter a lot faster than I expected.
by Aaron Campeau on Dec 17, 2009 10:40 PM PST up reply actions
The Atlanta Journal-Constitution has Derek Lowe going to Anaheim, maybe?
For Juan Rivera. Or to the Yankees for Nick Swisher. If I were the Braves I’d take Swisher in a New York minute but, well, the other move is on the table. Personally, I’m liking the little edge the Mariners have in the West right now and as such would rather not see Lowe coming over here. Then again, if the Angels are feeling desperate, maybe they’ll overpay for him…
Lowe for Rivera is kind of a wash in terms of value
He’ll probably be worth more wins but he’s paid double what Rivera makes.
If the deal goes, they’ll be saddled with 45M for an aging righty whose GB rate is in a four year slide while his LD rate is in a four year climb. it also forces them to either play Matsui in the OF or to dip into the FA market, committing even more money to an already overpaid OF.
De Gutibus non disputandum est
by Bearskin Rugburn on Dec 17, 2009 8:25 PM PST up reply actions
Smells like desperation
and i love it!
by Edgar for Pres on Dec 17, 2009 9:51 PM PST up reply actions
Mariners are linked to Bradley
Along with Rays and Rangers, but nothing is close
by ManifestDestiny on Dec 17, 2009 8:01 PM PST reply actions
Sooo you can cross Bradley off the list..
by seattlesundevil on Dec 17, 2009 8:13 PM PST up reply actions
But someone in the organization was very forthcoming in denying any interest in Bradley during the Winter Meetings
which is kind unique. So maybe there’s something to it after all, or so I hope. Bradley seems like a pretty fragile personality, but my god what a perfect fit he would be for this lineup.
De Gutibus non disputandum est
by Bearskin Rugburn on Dec 17, 2009 8:29 PM PST up reply actions
Short
Being an OF/DH that bats from both sides you’d have to think the M’s would like what he brings…on paper at least. But he seems to wear out his welcome with every team he’s on by the time spring training is over.
Maybe all he needs is some deeeep ticklin’ to unlock the sunshine in his heart. But I doubt it. I’d pass.
They have no interest in him whatsoever
by Graham MacAree on Dec 18, 2009 7:54 AM PST up reply actions 4 recs
Not even in a
“he cried because of what a broadcaster said during a game?’ way?
De Gutibus non disputandum est
by Bearskin Rugburn on Dec 18, 2009 7:59 AM PST up reply actions
OH SHIT IN YOUR FACE
De Gutibus non disputandum est
by Bearskin Rugburn on Dec 18, 2009 10:11 AM PST up reply actions
Our FO is just a bunch of busy beavers
Friday’s latest news and notes
Mariners making progress with Gutierrez — 11:16 a.m.
The Mariners are "making progress" with center fielder Franklin Gutierrez on a long-term contract, according to one of the player’s agents at Octagon Baseball.
Gutierrez, who is eligible for salary arbitration for the first time, likely would sign a three-year deal with one club option or a straight four-year contract.
The four years of club control would cover Gutierrez’s three arbitration years and his first year of free agency.
Octagon’s discussions with the Mariners about a long-term deal for another of its clients, right-hander Felix Hernandez, are not as far along.
"There’s a lot of brainstorming going on," said the agent, who asked not to be identified. "Everything has been very civil, but we do not have any offers on the table from them yet." -Ken Rosenthal
Source: Mariners trying to trade Morrow for hitter — 10:48 a.m.
The Mariners, on the verge of losing free-agent first baseman Nick Johnson to the Yankees, are trying to trade right-hander Brandon Morrow for a hitter at first base, third or DH, according to a major- league source.
The Mariners also have not ruled out re-signing third baseman Adrian Beltre and first baseman Russell Branyan.
General manager Jack Zduriencik, the Brewers’ former scouting director, spoke with his former club about a Morrow-for-Mat Gamel deal. The talks failed to progress but could be revisited later, the source said.
If the Brewers traded Gamel, a third baseman, they would commit to Casey McGehee at third. -Ken Rosenthal
Sucks that we couldn't get Gamel from them
Maybe they’ll change their minds.
What's Guti's value on a four-year deal?
4/$30M? Realistically, his first arb award is going to be like $2.5-3M, and Granderson got like 4/30 a couple years ago as a first-time eligible, I believe
by seattlebruin on Dec 18, 2009 9:34 AM PST up reply actions
Aren't arbitration decisions based off of Elias-type numbers?
If so, I don’t think Gutz would make much in arb as Granderson would. But I definitely think a buying out his first year of free-agency (his age 30 year) is the perfect contract for the M’s – we keep him as his offense is peaking and his defense is plateauing or deteriorating only slightly. The extra year gives makes him a much more valuable trade commodity (here I am, talking about trading one of my 3 favorite players ever) for GMZ to work with when Ackley is ready.
4/30 sounds like a good guess
7.5 MM per year is a good deal for Gutierez. But I think it would somewhat less than that, as the idea is to get some savings on not only his first free agent year, but the last year of arbitration as well.
So 4/25? 4/28? I’d rather they just go 5 years and get more savings on his 2nd year of free agency, something like 4/35, but that’s adding a lot of risk.
by nathaniel dawson on Dec 18, 2009 1:03 PM PST up reply actions
Ummm....holy crap!?
StoneLarry Source: Mariners will trade Carlos Silva to Cubs for Milton Bradley, may be announced later today
d_a_cameron Wow. RT @StoneLarry: Source: Mariners will trade Carlos Silva to Cubs for Milton Bradley, may be announced later today
JACK Z IS A BASEBALL WIZARD
I wonder if we keep him or flip him for Burrell
by ManifestDestiny on Dec 18, 2009 9:29 AM PST up reply actions
NO WAY NO WAY NO WAY
I fucking hate you Mariners
YES YES YES!!!!
I can’t fucking WAIT to see Silva hit.
I will smash your face into a jelly.
by Phil Hatzenbuehler on Dec 18, 2009 9:33 AM PST up reply actions
By the way, this now makes sense why Z seemed to back down from Nick Johnson.
I will smash your face into a jelly.
by Phil Hatzenbuehler on Dec 18, 2009 9:34 AM PST up reply actions
Every time I start to think he can't be any more awesome
My Mariners blog - SodoMojo, Twitter Feed, Fuck the fucking Angels!
How would we go about evaluating just how valuable Morrow, Saunders, and Triunfel are as trade commodities?
I was looking at Sky Kalkman’s piece on prospect trade values that he based off of Victor Wang’s work, but I realized I have little idea where Saunders and Triunfel fall on the top 100 prospects list (Sickels hasn’t done the M’s yet, and I don’t think the big BA, etc. prospect lists come out until January). Also, what can we project Morrow to be in the next three years (both in arbitration payouts and WAR)?
Saunders is pretty easy to think about in this way, though.
He’s MLB ready, and projects maybe something like:
2010: 1.0 WAR, $500K
2011: 1.5 WAR, $500K
2012: 2.0 WAR, $500 K
2013: 2.5 WAR, $4m?
2014: 3.0 WAR, $6m?
2015: 3.0 WAR, $8.5m?
So that would be 13 WAR (13x$4.5m = $58m) + possible compensation draft picks (say, $5m in value?) over six years for $20m? So that makes him worth $63m for a $20m price tag, or a $43 million asset?
That looks very possible
I’ll throw mine out there since I’d already had it worked up.
0.5 200
1.0 400
2.0 450
2.5 600
3.0 4,600
3.5 9,200
3.5 15,700
I put in 10% salary inflation per year, starting at $3.5 MM this year. 16 WAR, $31.3 MM in salary over 7 years. $51 MM in surplus value, allowing the team to buy 10 more wins on the free agent market., for a total of 26 wins over 7 years. So, $82 MM for 26 wins, or just a little over $3 MM/WAR. I left out the draft picks because, well, that’s a long time out and the CBA could change in the future.
by nathaniel dawson on Dec 18, 2009 3:14 PM PST up reply actions
Huh, I just saw this, too.
Before they signed John Lackey, the Red Sox offered Matt Holliday a five-year deal worth $82.5MM, according to Peter Gammons (via Twitter). ESPN.com’s Buster Olney heard the same thing and adds, not surprisingly, that the Red Sox are no longer suitors for Holliday. That’s comparable to the amount of money the Cardinals are willing to guarantee the left fielder, according to the St. Louis Post-Dispatch.
We probably can’t afford him, but this is surprising considering how much better Holliday is than Lackey (and the Red Sox’ front office certainly knows it).
GOD this offseason has been so boring.
...and now I'm here
Lowell to Texas is off per Pete Abraham via Twitter
What does that do to the market for Beltre? He said he wants to play for a winner and it seems that of the suitors left we offer him the best chance to win.
by TheTank123 on Dec 19, 2009 7:13 PM PST via mobile reply actions
I don't really like our odds, but I'm going to choose to remain hopeful.
My Mariners blog - SodoMojo, Twitter Feed, Fuck the fucking Angels!
The basic issue with Beltre coming back
is that we’ve already filled his position. You’d really need to trade Lopez in order to create a spot for he and Figgins. Lopez is an average offensive second baseman so moving him to first would be a bad idea (because he’d be significantly below average) and the market for second basemen this year is just not that good. There’s really nobody looking for a 2B right now outside of in-house options.
by Johnny Slick on Dec 20, 2009 9:07 AM PST up reply actions
If we sign another SP
do we bump Morrow down to AAA for more seasoning?
by Edgar for Pres on Dec 19, 2009 11:26 PM PST reply actions
So apparently Coco Crisp is close to signing with the A's.
I wonder if they’re trying to copy us with the whole 3 CF’s thing.
by I Lick Squirrels on Dec 20, 2009 2:05 AM PST reply actions
I saw something about 4mil
seems like Beane could do better.
by Edgar for Pres on Dec 20, 2009 1:48 PM PST up reply actions
Jason Marquis ---> Natinals
2/15M, pending physical. Seems fair. Guess this should dampen Pineiro’s expectations a little.
De Gutibus non disputandum est
by Bearskin Rugburn on Dec 21, 2009 1:26 PM PST reply actions
Oh, and the Indians traded Kelly Shoppach for a seemingly unremarkable AAA starter.
Shoppach isn’t anything particularly special, but has racked up 6.5 WAR in about 210 games over the last three years. He’s exactly the kind of guy I wish the M’s would pick up to mentor Moore as he breaks into the Majors – cheap, effective, and quietly productive.
I think I’m still pretty angry we’re going to be giving at-bats to Johnson.
De Gutibus non disputandum est
by Bearskin Rugburn on Dec 21, 2009 1:45 PM PST reply actions
6.5 WAR in 210 games is like 4 WAR+/year
by seattlebruin on Dec 21, 2009 2:13 PM PST up reply actions
He's not that good though
his BABIP has been insanely high for a catcher. He is probably more like a 2 WAR player which is still pretty freaking good for what they gave up for him.
by Edgar for Pres on Dec 21, 2009 2:44 PM PST up reply actions
WTF are the Braves doing?
According to SI.com’s Jon Heyman, the Braves are prepared to send Javier Vazquez and LHP Boone Logan to the Yankees for outfielder Melky Cabrera, LHP Mike Dunn and a prospect.
The unnamed “prospect” may be RHP Arodys Vizcaino, according to Joel Sherman of the New York Post. In one fell swoop, the Yanks have acquired an excellent starter and freed up a spot in their outfield for a top free agent. Logan, 24, had a 5.19 ERA and 1.73 WHIP in 17 1/3 innings for the Braves this season. Dunn, who’s also 24 and is headed to Atlanta, posted a 3.31 ERA and 1.41 WHIP between Double-A Trenton and Triple-A Scranton/Wilkes-Barre. Cabrera, 25, hit .274/.336/.416 in 2009 with 13 home runs, 28 doubles, 10 stolen bases and 68 RBI in 485 at-bats.
All Hail Zduriencik!
I mean, good lord Atlanta, why?
This also frees up the Yankees to enter the Jason Bay/Matt Holliday biddings.
All Hail Zduriencik!
I guess the good news is that the M's getting one over on the Phillies isn't the big story of the winter anymore.
But Jesus H. Christ though, all the Braves wanted for Javier Vasquez is Melky fucking Cabrera? Melky’s a better player than his offensive stats suggest, obviously, but MAN. We would have given you Jose Lopez, John Schuerholtz!
by Johnny Slick on Dec 22, 2009 7:29 AM PST up reply actions
Jesus Christ.
Sabathia, Vazquez, Burnett, Pettite… that’s rigoddamndiculous. On the other hand three of those four have health ocncerns. But still, if they can add a hitter that is just ungodly.
De Gutibus non disputandum est
by Bearskin Rugburn on Dec 22, 2009 8:17 AM PST up reply actions
Vazquez worked out so well for them last time...
by Graham MacAree on Dec 22, 2009 8:18 AM PST up reply actions
JASON BAY MOTHERFUCKERS
One source believes the Mariners are attempting to clear payroll in order to make a late push for Bay. But one rival executive doubts Seattle would sign Bay for more than one or two years, since prospects Michael Saunders and Dustin Ackley are candidates to play left field in the long term.
— Ken Rosenthal and Jon Paul Morosi
How on earth can someone think the Mariners are attempting to clear payroll?
by Graham MacAree on Dec 23, 2009 9:56 AM PST up reply actions
So much for that.
John Lackey’s five-year, $82.8 million contract with the Red Sox includes a “conditional club option” for 2015 at the league minimum.
Interesting. The option would only kick in if an old elbow injury forces Lackey to miss significant time after surgery. The big-money deal deal is front-loaded, with $18 million in 2010 and $15,250,000 every year from 2011-2014. Lackey, 31, was 11-8 with 3.83 ERA and 1.27 WHIP over 27 starts last season.
All Hail Zduriencik!
Ok, WTF when I looked at that earlier it said Jason Bay, not John Lackey.
Uhhhhhh delete delete delete delete delete!
All Hail Zduriencik!
Holy crap, that's cool
League minimum for one year if he loses time due to injury? Where can we get in on that stuff for Sheets, Bedard, etc.? Let’s make that happen.
...and now I'm here
Hey Bedard, we'll sign you for 6 million - way more than you're worth.
In exchange, we’d like two club options for league minimum.
...and now I'm here
Wow I would take Glaus for that
For 2mil there isn’t much downside at all
by Edgar for Pres on Dec 23, 2009 1:34 PM PST up reply actions
Fernando Rodney to the Angels, 2 years, $11 million
Hey, now you have two shitty 9th inning options.
Ahahahahahahaha
They’re having such a great offseason.
Hey alright! maybe 1 win for 11 large. Reagins is a master of the baseball universe.
When the Stoneman farm runs dry they have a long date with failure.
De Gutibus non disputandum est
by Bearskin Rugburn on Dec 24, 2009 8:33 AM PST up reply actions
HA
Matthew on FG:
there will be a certain set of fans that love this move. Most of them will love it because of Rodney’s save percentage.He forgot to mention the other set of fans that love this move because the Angels continue to allocate their resources poorly.
De Gutibus non disputandum est
by Bearskin Rugburn on Dec 24, 2009 8:40 AM PST up reply actions
Interesting blurb from the
The Angels have agreed to a deal with Fernando Rodney, the right-handed reliever formerly with the Detroit Tigers, according to ESPN’s Enrique Rojas. The deal is reportedly for two years, $11 million.
If this is accurate, the Angels’ payroll is now at roughly $113 million, same as last year. The Angels’ front office has previously said payroll would probably not increase this offseason, so — until we hear otherwise — that’s your 2010 Angels.
Of course, trades are still a possibility, but this is hilarious if Hideki Matsui and Fernando Rodney are the Angels entire offseason.
All Hail Zduriencik!

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