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Around SBN: Jeremy Lin Continues Rampage, New York Wins On Road

Heads Up

Tomorrow morning they're going to go forward with an update to the blog layout. I know people hate change and everything, but all things considered it's pretty minor, and besides, I think the new layout looks pretty sharp. Improves readability and all that. Nevertheless, if you hate it or have particular complaints, the tech guys should be floating around listening to feedback.

The update should also serve to improve site loading time, which should bring us one step closer to all-.gif content. To the future!

Update: Feedback thread!

Comment 437 comments  |  0 recs  | 

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We'd have reached the all-gif content months ago

if I wasn’t hamstrung by work filters.

angels fan in seattle

by Eyebrows on Nov 2, 2009 3:13 PM PST via mobile reply actions  

I want a rec leaderboard

also, I want flags to count as negative recs

by seattlebruin on Nov 2, 2009 3:47 PM PST reply actions  

No on the flags.

Its a way for mods to communicate secretly.

NEEDS MORE FREEDOM!

by Scruffy Lefty on Nov 2, 2009 3:48 PM PST up reply actions  

House
I know people hate change and everything,

People don’t change!

/House

Fans are typically idiots.

by The Typical Idiot Fan on Nov 2, 2009 3:51 PM PST reply actions  

Actual feedback

Overall cleaner, and easier on the eye. But…

For the devs:
- mobile site does not work, just returns a blank screen despite taking about 10s to load (G1 browser)

using IE6 at work (yuk)….
- initial impression is that front page takes a little longer to load, article pages load slightly quicker
- standings table on LHS wraps
- text size of post titles feels bigger (either it’s increased or just looks it relative to the rest of the page). It would fit together with the articles if it was slightly reduced, I feel.
- font of the strapline feels at odds with the rest of the page
- the text at the foot of an article on the front page referencing recs and share "50 comments, 50 new | 0 recs | Share " overlaps.
- multiple line breaks in my comments don’t appear in the post (well, they didn’t in the preview I just did… I’m about to insert six carriage returns before my feedback to Jeff… and they don’t appear. Not great for using paragraphs in comments.

For Jeff:
- on the references section, this bit:
“How to Post Pics and Links -———-”
wraps awkwardly. Missing a line break? Maybe it’s just me. This isn’t a new thing, it’s bugged me for ages I just never got round to mentioning it. The one after “The tRA post” isn’t affected.

by MarkE on Nov 3, 2009 2:47 AM PST reply actions  

Testing html line breaks

Section 1


Section 2


> Well, that works just fine!

by MarkE on Nov 3, 2009 2:51 AM PST up reply actions  

In addition

The rss feeds seem to have stopped working. I’ve cross-checked that the urls I’m using haven’t changed and they don’t appear to have…

by MarkE on Nov 3, 2009 4:30 AM PST reply actions  

Butt-Ass Ugly

I really think the font is too big and clunky. It looks like it was formatted by after market software to make it easier to read for the vision impaired.

I can’t imagine that it will be even remotely legible on a mobile device. I’ll probably have to rely on RSS feeds, if they are working.

by Ike Clanton on Nov 3, 2009 6:16 AM PST reply actions  

Having come back to it a number of times already today

It’s not so bad after a couple of repeat visits – as with many things once you get over the initial shock of change it’s fairly manageable.


It’s more plain and simple, and I’m all for that. The font size is the only real bugbear, the other bits just teething I think.

by MarkE on Nov 3, 2009 6:24 AM PST up reply actions  

What's with the default icons?

Did the commies win while I was sleeping?

"Ever tried? Ever failed? No matter. Try again. Fail again. Fail better." - Samuel Beckett http://mvn.com/marinersminors/

by JY on Nov 3, 2009 6:30 AM PST reply actions  

FireFox with AdBlock

Can anyone else confirm if Adblock enabled causes the LL-icon to actually cover up the thread’s subject line?

by ThundaPC on Nov 3, 2009 6:43 AM PST reply actions  

Confirmed on FF running OS X

I’ll check my Windows machine when I get to work.

Nice Guys Finish Third - My semantics are a waste of time.

by pdb on Nov 3, 2009 6:51 AM PST up reply actions  

It should also be noted

that the LL-icon also covers up the first couple lines of text of the post, not just the subject line.

Nice Guys Finish Third - My semantics are a waste of time.

by pdb on Nov 3, 2009 6:57 AM PST up reply actions  

Aaaaaaaand fixed!

Looks much better now.

Nice Guys Finish Third - My semantics are a waste of time.

by pdb on Nov 3, 2009 8:12 AM PST up reply actions  

Blue Jays?

I was at Shea for the Felix-Slam!
Personal M's record: 5-4.

by EnglishMariner on Nov 3, 2009 7:24 AM PST up reply actions   2 recs

It does seem to load comments a bit quicker but I haven't tried any .gif intensive threads yet.

Main page seems to take slightly longer though.

I was at Shea for the Felix-Slam!
Personal M's record: 5-4.

by EnglishMariner on Nov 3, 2009 7:25 AM PST reply actions  

Benchmarks ahoy!

(All tests performed on my work network (Old, kinda slow, XP SP2, FF 3.5.4):

Yesterday, to load main page: ~4 seconds
Today, to load main page: ~3.5 seconds
(A decent improvement)

Yesterday, to load this thread with 1229 posts: ~19.5 seconds
Today, loading the same thread: ~17 seconds
(Not a bad gain but I would be interested to see if further tweaking would result in bigger improvements – this is a pretty typical big thread, with some gifs and lots of comments)

Yesterday, to load this here thread about site improvements: ~4 seconds
Today: ~4 seconds
(It’s still a smallish thread so I wouldn’t have expected significant improvements here)

I didn’t think to do these tests yesterday on my home machine so I don’t know if the speed gains are more significant on a more up-to-date network infrastructure but there do seem to have been some improvements made so good on ya SBN, now maybe darken up some of this white space a tad?

Nice Guys Finish Third - My semantics are a waste of time.

by pdb on Nov 3, 2009 8:23 AM PST reply actions  

thanks for the benchmarking data

We’re seeing similar load time improvements, but this is definitely only a first step.

It helps if the hitter thinks you're a little crazy. - Nolan

by Trei Brundrett on Nov 3, 2009 11:04 AM PST up reply actions  

Fucking hideous layout.

Looks like a god damn blogspot website.

NEEDS MORE FREEDOM!

by Scruffy Lefty on Nov 3, 2009 8:30 AM PST reply actions  

And now for my non initial reaction comment.

White needs to be toned down like you said below and the headline font I preferred when it was centered

Other then that I see speed improvements all over the place in Safari especially in the manage blog section.

NEEDS MORE FREEDOM!

by Scruffy Lefty on Nov 3, 2009 8:47 AM PST up reply actions  

I'm fine with the sorta-blue border

it’s just that with the white background of the text body the overall effect is translucence; the site has no depth, no visual breaks to delineate meaningless border from important stuff.

Nice Guys Finish Third - My semantics are a waste of time.

by pdb on Nov 3, 2009 8:46 AM PST up reply actions  

Yeah that one confused me a bunch

I’ve been working in Kent for nearly a year, and it is not too white around here

I want to poop at your house - Thingray

by tootthekazoo on Nov 3, 2009 12:25 PM PST up reply actions  

Kent is very... ethnic

Except for a few neighborhoods of the east hill, but that is mostly unincorporated I think

I want to poop at your house - Thingray

by tootthekazoo on Nov 3, 2009 12:52 PM PST up reply actions  

I don't get what's so bad about left aligned titles

That, to me, falls under “you’ll get used to it”. We all hated SBN 2.0 when it came out and then six weeks later it was just the way it was, this is much the same.

Nice Guys Finish Third - My semantics are a waste of time.

by pdb on Nov 3, 2009 9:22 AM PST up reply actions  

Just because the reason isn't obvious or stated doesn't mean there wasn't a reason

I’d be really interested to hear why SBN made these UI tweaks – none of them really bother me that much, on the scale of things, except the whiteness issue, but still.

Nice Guys Finish Third - My semantics are a waste of time.

by pdb on Nov 3, 2009 9:29 AM PST up reply actions  

Right, so they should give me the reason or I'll assume it was for some stupid reason

I still remember them trying to push the narrow view on us on the basis of readability studies

by Graham MacAree on Nov 3, 2009 9:32 AM PST up reply actions  

Therefore they need feedback

It’s worse than it was yesterday, the things that made it worse are easily fixed, and so I’ll complain

by Graham MacAree on Nov 3, 2009 9:39 AM PST up reply actions  

It was justified when we first switched from Scoop because what they tried to do was terrible

But this is just so damn minor. Things will still change, and the things that don’t change you’ll get used to.

by Jeff Sullivan on Nov 3, 2009 9:49 AM PST up reply actions   1 recs

Sure

Hence me not going around being Captain Stabby about it

by Graham MacAree on Nov 3, 2009 9:52 AM PST up reply actions  

More difficult changes too, I'd imagine

They could fix all of the visual problems here in about 12 seconds.

by Graham MacAree on Nov 3, 2009 9:54 AM PST up reply actions  

I don't trust the SBN devs at all on readability

They’re magical fucking wizards when it comes to the internal stuff and I happily bow to them in that regard, but after narrowviewgate… why exactly should we assume that any changes will be for the better?

by Graham MacAree on Nov 3, 2009 10:01 AM PST up reply actions  

I think it doesn't work because of how long the content/comments are

Most major websites aren’t of such varying lengths up/down as a blog would be

by Graham MacAree on Nov 3, 2009 10:13 AM PST up reply actions  

I agree with you

I just understand where they were coming from, and why they might’ve thought it was as good idea prior to implementation.

by Jeff Sullivan on Nov 3, 2009 10:14 AM PST up reply actions  

How else can I put this

It feels like they have wonderful ideas in theory but there’s a disconnect between the devs and people who actually use the blogs.

by Graham MacAree on Nov 3, 2009 10:17 AM PST up reply actions  

we read your comments

we act on the feedback

It helps if the hitter thinks you're a little crazy. - Nolan

by Trei Brundrett on Nov 3, 2009 11:08 AM PST up reply actions   1 recs

So what's the process behind how this all works

Does it get QA’d, looked over before it goes out?

Basically, is this layout something that the devs agreed was good in the first place?

by Graham MacAree on Nov 3, 2009 11:14 AM PST up reply actions  

process

mock-up
internal review
dev
iterate
QA
blogger review #1
blogger review #2
more QA
release
listen to community
iterate
QA
release

It helps if the hitter thinks you're a little crazy. - Nolan

by Trei Brundrett on Nov 3, 2009 11:18 AM PST up reply actions  

The font of the article titles looks as though a child with a pen got into the site

This child also has clearly been told to always start a sentence next to the line denoting the margin.

Also, stars? C’mon SBN, give us a little guy with a cowlick.

by Kirsten Schlewitz on Nov 3, 2009 9:22 AM PST reply actions  

Fonts are really, really hard to settle on

For everyone that likes a clean, businesslike font, there’s five people that like Comic Sans and can’t figure out why the font isn’t more stylized

Nice Guys Finish Third - My semantics are a waste of time.

by pdb on Nov 3, 2009 9:23 AM PST up reply actions  

This is obviously the product of research showing that brighter colors make people happy.

Thus more people will rec each other, resulting in huge rec-flag discrepancies and subsequent mass inflation.

by Zygomorphic on Nov 3, 2009 9:39 AM PST reply actions  

So some actual feedback rather than just my happiness at being able to engage in employer time-theft:

I think I understand the direction in which the devs are trying to go with this, and I approve of said direction, but the layout and style definitely need some work. The ad bar, for example, looks all slick and high-res, which makes the header, sidebar and overall look and feel seem amateurish in comparison.

There is tons and tons of wasted space on either side. Tons of it. It’s really annoying.

And the above-mentioned reply-routing-to-top-of-post bug.

by Aaron Campeau on Nov 3, 2009 9:40 AM PST reply actions  

I'm hoping for random word placement of headlines and such

One word left justified, one word three lines down and all the way to the right, another word halfway down the page in the middle of the column, etc.

Nice Guys Finish Third - My semantics are a waste of time.

by pdb on Nov 3, 2009 9:49 AM PST up reply actions  

I think it's down to color scheme

LL’s colors blend in too easily with the acres of sidebar space that are very light, and with the white main column. Look at Red Reporter, for instance, and see how the red/black really stands out against those light backgrounds, especially the header. LL’s other colors are too complementary to work well with the template.

Nice Guys Finish Third - My semantics are a waste of time.

by pdb on Nov 3, 2009 10:05 AM PST up reply actions  

As it happens

Red Reporter was the screenshot I looked at before the new layout rolled out. So you can understand why I thought this looked sharper than it actually does.

by Jeff Sullivan on Nov 3, 2009 10:06 AM PST up reply actions  

Black is used far too infrequently in website designs

Not that pages should be all black, but judicious use of dark colors really helps to delineate the main stuff from the sidebars.

Nice Guys Finish Third - My semantics are a waste of time.

by pdb on Nov 3, 2009 10:08 AM PST up reply actions  

My feedback:

It’s not awful, but it’s worse than it was yesterday. It looks a lot less professional and much more like some sort of wordpress knock off.

And dear god do something with the title bar. It’s atrocious. I don’t understand how that ever got past a designer.

by Matthew on Nov 3, 2009 10:19 AM PST reply actions  

I'm guessing there were no designers involved

and I don’t mean that in a derogatory way, just that I’m guessing the SBN folks aren’t web designers by trade, but have learned as they go.

Nice Guys Finish Third - My semantics are a waste of time.

by pdb on Nov 3, 2009 10:22 AM PST up reply actions  

That's retarded.

Hey SBN, if you haven’t already, hire a designer!

They work cheap, believe me.

by Matthew on Nov 3, 2009 10:52 AM PST up reply actions  

fwiw, this is not true

It helps if the hitter thinks you're a little crazy. - Nolan

by Trei Brundrett on Nov 3, 2009 11:10 AM PST up reply actions  

In fairness there is nothing they could change to make me happy

they could make the background a giant American flag and require the purchase of a Ford Taurus before receiving recs and I would still hate it

Determined, Jonesing Commentor | Proud proprietor of Wyomingroutes.org & Washingtonhighways.org

by Corco on Nov 3, 2009 11:16 AM PST up reply actions  

thanks for the big long feedback thread LL

we do listen. and we do respond.

we even keep listening until we find threads like this one:
http://www.lookoutlanding.com/2008/11/7/656375/take-5-seconds-and-help-da#10100493

It helps if the hitter thinks you're a little crazy. - Nolan

by Trei Brundrett on Nov 3, 2009 11:16 AM PST reply actions  

Hey now, that thread is one of our finer moments.

FUCK THE ANGELS! FUCK THE ANGELS! FUCK THE ANGELS!

by Goose on Nov 3, 2009 6:33 PM PST up reply actions  

Can we get something where the mods can choose what colors go around the borders?

Like pdb pointed out above, Reds Reporter looks really sharp because of their color scheme, but our tends to blend into the white and just make it look extra bright.

Also, the headline thing is really bad.

It would be nice to get the site name somewhere in the top bar – maybe the site name in bigger letters and the tagline below it as is?

by seattlebruin on Nov 3, 2009 11:17 AM PST reply actions  

I get the sense that if we used the "authorized" site picture the name thing wouldn't be an issue

Most SBN blogs have the site name prominent in the pic. You have to look for it in the Sexson one.

Nice Guys Finish Third - My semantics are a waste of time.

by pdb on Nov 3, 2009 11:19 AM PST up reply actions  

???

BIG RICHIE!!!!1!1!!1

It's hard to convince people to let you eat them if you're an asshole. - Thingray

by Faux on Nov 3, 2009 12:17 PM PST up reply actions   3 recs

FEEDBACK:

The new flagging box looks bad. It’s way too tall, the text wraps awkwardly and it comes pre-sized with a horizontal scroll bar. Use width better and restrict vertical size, it’s like you have the width and height swapped in the JS.

Visual:

by Matthew on Nov 3, 2009 11:32 AM PST reply actions  

testing

<img src=“”http://i297.photobucket.com/albums/mm233/TheSayHuhKid/silvaburgerfelixmoney.jpg?t=1257279199"width=250/>"/>

by Robert on Nov 3, 2009 12:18 PM PST up reply actions  

Mine is more frightening.

It's hard to convince people to let you eat them if you're an asshole. - Thingray

by Faux on Nov 3, 2009 12:20 PM PST up reply actions  

Reading this thread, I have noticed when a group of new comments are added

all at once the pages jiggles up and down for a second or two and then settles down. This could be really hard on the eyes in a really active gameday thread.

The 2009 Pregame Picks Winner and Iron Man of Halos Heaven.com

by 44FAN on Nov 3, 2009 12:10 PM PST reply actions  

Alsio

links in sigs are annoying and I wouldn’t mind seeing go away

by Poochie on Nov 3, 2009 12:42 PM PST reply actions  

Go to VEB and check out everyone's five line high sig

Links in sigs are the worst because I always accidentally click on them in a large thread and lose my place. PLUS they have yet to take me anywhere worthwhile

by Poochie on Nov 3, 2009 12:44 PM PST up reply actions  

They irritate me to no end

and anything more than 3 lines big is strictly not allowed.

by Matthew on Nov 3, 2009 12:46 PM PST up reply actions  

I will concede that some shorter sigs are ok

but I’d be more than willing to sacrifice them

by Poochie on Nov 3, 2009 12:47 PM PST up reply actions  

Uggh.

This just reminds me of a terrible Wordpress template.

by Manzanillos Cup on Nov 3, 2009 12:58 PM PST reply actions  

After staring at Red Reporter some more I have a suggestion for Trei et al

maybe make the hyperlinked text on LL the same dark-blue color as the header and the footer? That lightish green color just gets washed out, and since I see all the sites have the greyish blue background for the sidebar content, the answer may lie in darkening the text that sits on those sidebars.

Nice Guys Finish Third - My semantics are a waste of time.

by pdb on Nov 3, 2009 1:17 PM PST reply actions  

It looks more like a generic blog.

It’s fine, but blogs themselves are naturally unattractive. As others said, it looks more like wordpress/blogspot.

...and now I'm here

by CapSea on Nov 3, 2009 3:23 PM PST reply actions  

Ultimately, it comes down to a lack of contrast.

It’s amazing the difference a border or shading can make. The white itself is not the criminal, it’s the lack of contrast around it. Also, if I’m not mistaken, the green navigation bar used to have shading to make it pop out more. As it stands now, the whole thing just looks flat and uninspired. And the giant blue header (with or without an ad in it) isn’t helping.

I'm more like I am now than I've ever been.

by ralphie81 on Nov 3, 2009 3:32 PM PST reply actions  

Bingo.

Contrast is everything. The grey margins are the culprit. If those could be dark blue, we have a very good looking site again. The same fate befalls Addicted To Quack, unfortunately.

Addicted To Quack [dot] com; Six-hundred and ninety-four yards of total offense.

by qrsouther on Nov 3, 2009 5:49 PM PST up reply actions  

So yea,

Fix the Title font and center it and I’m good to go.

by ThundaPC on Nov 3, 2009 5:11 PM PST reply actions  

Actually

The Left alignment is starting to grow on me. The title font is the only issue I have.

by ThundaPC on Nov 3, 2009 6:01 PM PST up reply actions  

Okay this is kinda strange

At work, I run FF on XP SP2, with adblock. The “better and/or more attractive” text shows up at the top of the header bar, over a big blue swath which presumably contains an ad. At home, I run FF on Snow Leopard, also with adblock, and that text appears at the bottom of the header bar. This is not a problem, it’s just an odd thing I noticed.

by pdb on Nov 3, 2009 6:33 PM PST reply actions  

Site loading times:

At home on the latest Firefox build (which I think is 3.5.3), I’m not really noticing any differences in loading times.

However, here at work on a crappier network and IE 8.0.6 the loading times are faster. Not a lot, but it is noticeable.

FUCK THE ANGELS! FUCK THE ANGELS! FUCK THE ANGELS!

by Goose on Nov 4, 2009 3:00 AM PST reply actions  

Ok, this morning it is quite a bit faster here at home as well.

And my FF version is apparently 3.5.4.

Also, the LL icon is back, sweet.

FUCK THE ANGELS! FUCK THE ANGELS! FUCK THE ANGELS!

by Goose on Nov 4, 2009 9:29 AM PST up reply actions  

Color scheme looks better!

There could still be a bit more definition around the columns, but I like the blue better.

by pdb on Nov 4, 2009 9:38 AM PST reply actions  

I like the redesign overall

Flush-left headlines are much more professional, but I agree that the font size and style are distracting. Moving away from block boldface is good but the scrunched-tall-helvetica look is fugly.

Spare layouts with lots of white space seem to be the trend.

by lemonverbena on Nov 4, 2009 12:50 PM PST reply actions  

Indeed

it does.

I'm more like I am now than I've ever been.

by ralphie81 on Nov 4, 2009 4:14 PM PST up reply actions  

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