2009 SBN AL MVP Voting Results
by Jeff Sullivan on Nov 12, 2009 12:02 PM PST
in Miscellaneous
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| Rk | Player | Team | 1st | 2nd | 3rd | 4th | 5th | 6th | 7th | 8th | 9th | 10th | Pts |
|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
| 1 | Joe Mauer | Minnesota Twins | 24 | 3 | 1 | - | - | - | - | - | - | - | 371 |
| 2 | Ben Zobrist | Tampa Bay Rays | - | 10 | 6 | 2 | 2 | 1 | - | 1 | - | - | 172 |
| 3 | Mark Teixeira | New York Yankees | 2 | 3 | 2 | 4 | 3 | 2 | 7 | 1 | - | - | 158 |
| 4 | Derek Jeter | New York Yankees | 1 | 5 | 3 | 4 | 4 | 2 | 1 | 1 | 2 | 1 | 157 |
| 5 | Evan Longoria | Tampa Bay Rays | - | 2 | 4 | 1 | 2 | 3 | 2 | 3 | 2 | 1 | 106 |
| 6 | Zack Greinke | Kansas City Royals | 2 | 3 | 2 | 1 | 1 | - | 2 | - | - | - | 92 |
| 7 | Miguel Cabrera | Detroit Tigers | - | - | 3 | 1 | 2 | 4 | - | 2 | - | 5 | 74 |
| 8 | Kevin Youkilis | Boston Red Sox | - | 2 | - | - | 1 | 3 | 1 | 8 | 1 | - | 69 |
| 9 | Chone Figgins | Los Angeles Angels | - | - | - | 3 | 4 | 1 | - | 1 | 3 | 1 | 60 |
| 10 | Jason Bay | Boston Red Sox | - | 1 | - | 4 | 2 | - | - | 1 | - | 2 | 54 |
| 11 | Kendry Morales | Los Angeles Angels | - | - | 4 | - | - | 1 | - | - | 1 | - | 39 |
| 12 | Ichiro Suzuki | Seattle Mariners | - | - | 1 | - | 2 | - | 1 | 2 | 2 | 3 | 37 |
| 13 | Franklin Gutierrez | Seattle Mariners | - | - | - | 1 | 1 | 1 | 3 | - | 1 | 2 | 34 |
| 14 | Justin Verlander | Detroit Tigers | - | - | - | 2 | 1 | 1 | 1 | - | 1 | 1 | 32 |
| 15 | Felix Hernandez | Seattle Mariners | - | - | - | 2 | - | - | 1 | 3 | 2 | - | 31 |
| 16 | Jason Bartlett | Tampa Bay Rays | - | - | 1 | 1 | 1 | - | - | - | - | 1 | 22 |
| 17 | Alex Rodriguez | New York Yankees | - | - | 1 | - | 1 | - | 1 | - | - | - | 18 |
| 18 | Roy Halladay | Toronto Blue Jays | - | - | - | 1 | - | 1 | 1 | - | - | - | 16 |
| 19 | Adam Lind | Toronto Blue Jays | - | - | - | - | - | 2 | - | - | 1 | 4 | 16 |
| 20 | Dustin Pedroia | Boston Red Sox | - | - | - | - | - | - | 1 | - | 4 | 1 | 13 |
| 21 | Bobby Abreu | Los Angeles Angels | - | - | - | 1 | - | - | - | 1 | 1 | - | 12 |
| 22 | Aaron Hill | Toronto Blue Jays | - | - | - | - | - | 1 | 1 | 1 | - | - | 12 |
| 23 | Mariano Rivera | New York Yankees | - | - | - | - | 1 | - | - | - | 1 | 1 | 9 |
| 24 | Torii Hunter | Los Angeles Angels | - | - | 1 | - | - | - | - | - | - | - | 8 |
| 25 | Brian Roberts | Baltimore Orioles | - | - | - | - | - | - | 1 | 1 | - | - | 7 |
| 26 | CC Sabathia | New York Yankees | - | - | - | - | - | - | 1 | - | 1 | - | 6 |
| 27 | Carl Crawford | Tampa Bay Rays | - | - | - | - | - | - | - | 1 | 1 | 1 | 6 |
| 28 | J.D. Drew | Boston Red Sox | - | - | - | - | - | 1 | - | - | - | - | 5 |
| 29 | Jon Lester | Boston Red Sox | - | - | - | - | - | 1 | - | - | - | - | 5 |
| 30 | Jonathan Papelbon | Boston Red Sox | - | - | - | - | - | 1 | - | - | - | - | 5 |
| 31 | Robinson Cano | New York Yankees | - | - | - | - | - | 1 | - | - | - | - | 5 |
| 32 | Victor Martinez | Boston Red Sox | - | - | - | - | - | 1 | - | - | - | - | 5 |
| 33 | Michael Cuddyer | Minnesota Twins | - | - | - | - | - | - | 1 | - | - | - | 4 |
| 34 | Shin-Soo Choo | Cleveland Indians | - | - | - | - | - | - | 1 | - | - | - | 4 |
| 35 | Michael Young | Texas Rangers | - | - | - | - | - | - | - | - | 1 | 1 | 3 |
| 36 | Jacoby Ellsbury | Boston Red Sox | - | - | - | - | - | - | - | - | 1 | - | 2 |
| 37 | Jason Kubel | Minnesota Twins | - | - | - | - | - | - | - | - | 1 | - | 2 |
| 38 | Alex Gonzalez | Boston Red Sox | - | - | - | - | - | - | - | - | - | 1 | 1 |
| 39 | Nick Markakis | Baltimore Orioles | - | - | - | - | - | - | - | - | - | 1 | 1 |
Zobrist posts the highest (position player) WAR in the American League and is absent from six ballots.
Mark Teixeira gets two first-place votes despite being an average first baseman and having one of the lowest clutch scores in the league, for whatever that's worth.
Assorted other ridiculousness.
Mauer's (probably) the smart pick, so in terms of what matters the network got this one right, but there are some stupid bloggers out there.
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we got Mauer right...
and bully for a high showing by Zobrist
but definitely some weird ballots… did someone hand in an all Red Sox ballot?
Wasn't me
But I did screw up and leave Zobrist off my ballot…completely forgot about him. Also, I’m the only Kubel vote.
I saw your ballot on HH, and outside of Zobrist and Morales, hard to argue with the rest
with regards to Kubel, the definition of “most valuable” is so ephemeral that I would have no problem with voting virtually any player who finished with 2 WAR+ in the 8-10 spots
by seattlebruin on Nov 12, 2009 4:12 PM PST up reply actions
I admit it, Morales was a homer pick
Leaving Zobrist off was stupid. Fortunately it didn’t effect the outcome.
Greinke had the highest WAR of anyone in the AL.
Can you make the basic case why Joe Mauer should be the MVP then? Does WAR not translate well between pitching and position players?
angels fan in seattle
by Eyebrows on Nov 12, 2009 12:09 PM PST via mobile reply actions
Fangraphs' pitcher WAR is based on FIP and that strips away a lot of things a pitcher may have done right or wrong
by Jeff Sullivan on Nov 12, 2009 12:13 PM PST up reply actions
Can there be a WAR calculation from tRA?
I will smash your face into a jelly.
by Phil Hatzenbuehler on Nov 12, 2009 12:53 PM PST up reply actions
Hey, look at that!
I will smash your face into a jelly.
by Phil Hatzenbuehler on Nov 12, 2009 12:55 PM PST up reply actions
I think the case for Grienke is pretty strong
FIP biases aside. According to Stats Corner, his pitching runs above average was 68. Mauer was 54.5 batting runs above average. Mauer didn’t play the whole season at catcher (only 109 games) due to his injury, so you can’t give him the full positional adjustment (12.5 runs) for catching, and you have to add the penalty to his 29 games (I think that’s the number) at DH. Even if he’s a +5 runs catcher over his 109 appearances as catcher, he nets maybe about 10 runs on defense all told. That gets him to 64.5.
So even if I’m being a little stingy with defensive value, Grienke was a few runs better than Mauer. One thing I don’t know is whether leverage is figured into any of this. Mauer was not, by the way, good in the clutch this season and Grienke pitched 6 complete games.
GOD I KNOW
That HoRam is just tearing it up, isn’t he?
angels fan in seattle
by Eyebrows on Nov 12, 2009 12:10 PM PST via mobile up reply actions
Not to mention Yuni!
angels fan in seattle
by Eyebrows on Nov 12, 2009 12:10 PM PST via mobile up reply actions
Ahahahahaha -2.1 WAR for 2009.
angels fan in seattle
by Eyebrows on Nov 12, 2009 12:10 PM PST via mobile up reply actions
I think I'll call Dayton Moore and offer to stay on the DL for 100K a year.
Much better bargain than Yuni.
The player's union would take issue with that
Don't believe the lies Bill!!!! look at the sparkly ERA!!! Sparkly, Sparkly!!! - McCovey Chronicles
Congrats to Derek Jeter
who wins the “Player to be named in each spot of an MVP ballot” Award!
It's a SSS
Rooting for lovable losers since 1984.
by seattlecougar on Nov 12, 2009 1:38 PM PST up reply actions
No Zobeast #1 votes?
His defensive versatility and baserunning advantage give him added value that WAR doesn’t count which could easily negate Mauer’s defense.
by lailaihei on Nov 12, 2009 12:13 PM PST via mobile reply actions
Depends if you believe in clutch being part of MVP or not
by Graham MacAree on Nov 12, 2009 12:44 PM PST up reply actions
WAR also doesn't have catcher's defense
and it might be lacking a bit in positional adjustment given catchers offensive games suffer beyond just the general scarcity issue.
The clutch penalty probably overrides both of those
Mauer was baaaad in the clutch.
by Graham MacAree on Nov 12, 2009 12:59 PM PST up reply actions
He had 94 high leverage PAs and hit .329/.426/.494
He was only bad relative to himself.
by Jeff Sullivan on Nov 12, 2009 1:03 PM PST up reply actions
Teixeira: .992 OPS HL, .948 OPS overall
This is weird.
by Jeff Sullivan on Nov 12, 2009 1:05 PM PST up reply actions
So in otherwords the MVP is just as vague and undefined with "smart voters" as it always has been
Hooray progress!
Here's the thing.
The MVP is meant to be awarded to the best overall player in the league. However, though the best player in the league is the player with the best defensive and offensive production, the MVP usually focuses completely on offensive output.
http://sodomojo.com/
by .Taylor on Nov 12, 2009 1:11 PM PST up reply actions
At least it's an intelligent debate though
by Graham MacAree on Nov 12, 2009 3:08 PM PST up reply actions
Kinda hard to have an intelligent debate about that
“I think clutch should be considered because it provides value”
“I think clutch should not because it’s mainly luck”
I mean, it’s more intelligent, but basically impossible to prove either way.
by vivaelpujols on Nov 12, 2009 3:23 PM PST up reply actions
Sorry
It’s basically impossible to provide evidence for either side. I’m sure you agree their has to be some objective evidence (even if it’s social science) in a good debate.
by vivaelpujols on Nov 12, 2009 8:22 PM PST up reply actions
Not really
I can have interesting discussions on which is the best style of beer without any semblance of evidence
by Graham MacAree on Nov 13, 2009 8:05 AM PST up reply actions
We're from Seattle. We can argue about anything.
http://sodomojo.com/
by .Taylor on Nov 13, 2009 9:37 AM PST up reply actions 3 recs
Gutierrez posted a 2.44 clutch rating, as opposed to Mark Teixeira's -1.73.
To what degree would you suggest incorporating this “clutchiness,” Graham? In this case, it just happens to highlight the fact that Gutierrez’s defense made him an overall better player than Tex, but there are plenty of great position players who aren’t clutch. Is that enough to devalue them as an MVP candidate?
http://sodomojo.com/
by .Taylor on Nov 13, 2009 9:36 AM PST up reply actions
I can't make suggestions on whether or not to include clutch hitting
It’s just a matter of whether or not you feel clutch hitting ought to be included
by Graham MacAree on Nov 13, 2009 11:11 AM PST up reply actions
Just out of curiosity, who voted for LL?
Jeff and Matthew?
Any way we can get a mods vote and a community vote for one of these polls?
I voted 11 times
because many people didn’t care and traded me their votes for office supplies.
by Matthew on Nov 12, 2009 12:54 PM PST up reply actions 1 recs
If you really voted eleven times then how come Jose Lopez didn't get any votes??
by seattlebruin on Nov 12, 2009 12:55 PM PST up reply actions
so...
1. Derek Jeter
2. Jason Bay
3. Jason Bartlett
4. Jason Bartlett
5. Jason Bartlett
6. Jonathan Papelbon
7. Michael Cuddyer
8. Brian Roberts
9. Jason Kubel
10. Alex Gonzalez
by seattlebruin on Nov 12, 2009 12:58 PM PST up reply actions
I think it's neat that Zobrist fared so well
Who here thinks he’ll even be in the top 10 in the “real” MVP voting?
I could see him crack the top ten, but not the top five.
But it will be funny when people like Abreu get more votes
With a simplistic approach of just looking down the list and comparing to Fangraphs' WAR leaderboard,
Bay is the first name that jumps out as way out of place. 31st for WAR (3.5), 10th in the voting. Overall, the SBN folks really did pretty well.
Alex Gonzalez?
Aaron King is still my homeboy... iffy mechanics and all
McFAQ for all you newcomers out there.
GET THAT VORP AND WHIP SH!T OUTTA HERE!!!
I stopped looking after Bay.
I was referring to the performance of the SBN group overall – a little homerism for places 6 thru 10 doesn’t bother me any.
Amusing to me...
Verlander and Felix flip-flopped from Cy Young to MVP ballots. Verlander must have had some serious offensive output in his interleague appearances!
Rooting for lovable losers since 1984.
People are just disappointed that Felix fell off so hard offensively this year.
His OPS dropped by 4.857 points, and his OPS+ dropped by 1222 points. With that kind of offensive drop off, you’ve got to ding him.
50!
Yes, we expect Felix to hit a grand slam in every at bat.
He is that good.
Where's Marco Scutaro?
Worth a full win more than Jason Bay this year. Also put up more WAR than Hill and Lind. Probably not worth a 10th place vote, but if Jacoby Ellsbury is…
by Manzanillos Cup on Nov 12, 2009 2:00 PM PST reply actions
It's unbelievable how many people around baseball are failing to give Zobrist any real recognition
My Mariners blog - SodoMojo Twitter Feed, Fuck the fucking Angels!
Awards voting formula:
[ERA or OPS] * ([Your Team’s Budget] / [Average League Budget])
Rooting for lovable losers since 1984.
by seattlecougar on Nov 12, 2009 6:39 PM PST up reply actions
Don't insult OPS by putting it next to ERA please
by vivaelpujols on Nov 12, 2009 7:10 PM PST up reply actions
Naw, the only problem with OPS is weighting
ERA is just retarded.
by vivaelpujols on Nov 12, 2009 8:21 PM PST up reply actions
They're both completely pointless at this juncture.
by Aaron Campeau on Nov 12, 2009 8:30 PM PST up reply actions
By that logic, so is tRA if you have LIPS (uses base runs)
There may be no point to OPS given wOBA, but don’t relegated it to the land of ERA.
by vivaelpujols on Nov 12, 2009 8:35 PM PST up reply actions
I think you are totally missing the point.
Shocking.
by Aaron Campeau on Nov 12, 2009 8:36 PM PST up reply actions
You said that OPS was similar to ERA
I say it isn’t because it is a lot closer to the “right” stat (wOBA) than ERA is to the right stat (tRA, LIPS). You’re point about it being superfluous is valid and is also disingenuous, because it has nothing to do with the original argument.
by vivaelpujols on Nov 12, 2009 8:40 PM PST up reply actions
The "original argument" was pretty a clearly a joke
which is something you seem completely incapable of understanding.
by Aaron Campeau on Nov 12, 2009 8:51 PM PST up reply actions
No, the post you responded to was a joke
and for the purposes of the joke, yes, they are pretty similar.
by Aaron Campeau on Nov 12, 2009 9:03 PM PST up reply actions
I don't give a shit about the post I responded too
That had nothing to do with your statement.
by vivaelpujols on Nov 12, 2009 9:13 PM PST up reply actions
Wait who the fuck voted for Alex Gonzalez?
My Mariners blog - SodoMojo Twitter Feed, Fuck the fucking Angels!
Another thing about Grienke
While Mauer may have been better (the two were awfully close, see my response above), there’s little doubt that Grienke was among the best players in the AL last season. He got just eleven total votes, but 18 voters ranked at least ten players higher this season. That’s pretty bad. While the rule of thumb that hitters are more valuable than pitchers is right, it’s getting carried too far here.
i'm confused
people voted for Teixeira and Aaron Hill, which means they like shiny numbers. But people also voted for Gutierrez and Zobrist which means they like defense and can look past the shiny numbers. Which is it?
The answer may lie in that 'people', as you correctly say,
is a pluralized form of ‘person’ and that more than one individual person voted in this award and that as per the latest terms of agreement, acceptance of a hive mind was not listed under the requirements of being an SBN blogger.
by Matthew on Nov 13, 2009 6:03 PM PST up reply actions 3 recs
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