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Around SBN: The Worst Team Ever Projected?

One(?) More Year of Junior

Well that actually did not take very long. Larry Stone is reporting that Griffey will return to the Mariners in 2010 on a one year contract. No word yet on the terms or expectations, but um... well... it's sort of weird after the send-off this last October. Will they do the same thing at the end of 2010? Awkward.

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I don't really view this as weird.

The “send-off” seemed more like a “thanks for coming back this year and if we don’t see ya, good afternoon, good evening and good night” to me. It also seemed to me like more of a celebration of the entire team and their accomplishments and closeness.

I'm more like I am now than I've ever been.

by ralphie81 on Nov 11, 2009 9:08 AM PST reply actions  

HELL YEAH MORE GRIFFEY BOMBS!!!!

I was actually expecting Jack Wilson to fill the role of veteran leadership. He’s heading for my shit list, I hope his defense is as good as advertised.

by Kermit. on Nov 11, 2009 9:09 AM PST reply actions  

Those numbers would be the advertised defense.

My hope was that he would put in a stellar outing in ’09, sign for ’10, and wear the veteran presence in the clubhouse hat. There has been a general feeling that Griffey would be around, but a hope that Wilson would eliminate the need.

by Kermit. on Nov 11, 2009 2:05 PM PST up reply actions  

I'm reccing this...

but mostly because I can’t rec the Twitter feed of you saying you were going to play Civ 2 as the Americans.

"Ever tried? Ever failed? No matter. Try again. Fail again. Fail better." - Samuel Beckett http://mvn.com/marinersminors/

by JY on Nov 11, 2009 9:41 AM PST up reply actions  

It was probably the only Civ game where I played as them.

After that, who you chose mattered too much. I suppose they could be good, they just didn’t suit my playing style.

"Ever tried? Ever failed? No matter. Try again. Fail again. Fail better." - Samuel Beckett http://mvn.com/marinersminors/

by JY on Nov 11, 2009 9:45 AM PST up reply actions  

Sioux all the way.

I will smash your face into a jelly.

by Phil Hatzenbuehler on Nov 11, 2009 9:47 AM PST up reply actions  

I always like when the names start repeating.

Was that civil uprising in my capital city of Little Bighorn, or the one I founded 2,000 years later?

I will smash your face into a jelly.

by Phil Hatzenbuehler on Nov 11, 2009 9:55 AM PST up reply actions  

That was one of the good features in III.

They’d cycle through the names again, at first adding “New” to the front and then latter adding “2” and “3” and so on, whereas every other game started with a generic set of names that maybe sounded close and then started over again after a long time.

Of course, the main benefit of this was that if you were playing as the Ottomans, Istanbul would become Not Constantinople.

"Ever tried? Ever failed? No matter. Try again. Fail again. Fail better." - Samuel Beckett http://mvn.com/marinersminors/

by JY on Nov 11, 2009 10:04 AM PST up reply actions  

Genius!

I will smash your face into a jelly.

by Phil Hatzenbuehler on Nov 11, 2009 10:04 AM PST up reply actions  

Blech

Well, that’s over. Now to start improving the team.

by stupidquestions on Nov 11, 2009 10:03 AM PST reply actions  

AS I commented over at USSM ....

I suspect there is an implicit understanding that for Griffey to remain on the roster he needs to demonstrate that he is able to be a productive hitter.

I think he will get substantial time as DH to start the season. If by the end of May he hasn’t shown that he’s still got something left, the retirement announcement comes and he finishes out the season in some non-roster capacity with the club.

If the deal is put together like that, there’s little risk. The team gets to keep an icon around and if Griffey doesn’t produce there can be a graceful exit. If Griffey does contribute at a decent level, so much the better.

The big downside really is that, as Dave Cameron mentions, one of the useful bench players acquired last season likely gets lost.

by Steve Nelson on Nov 11, 2009 10:03 AM PST reply actions  

Since he wasn't a productive hitter last season

and we don’t yet know who the DH will be I think this is a silly suspicion

by Poochie on Nov 11, 2009 10:05 AM PST up reply actions  

Take a step back and think about it from a different perspective

First – you could assume they are idiots, they don’t know what they are doing, and they have no comprehension that having a guy on the roster with Griffey’s offensive productivity last season and defensive limitations significantly hurts the teams ability to compete.

Personally I don’t think that’s a very good set of assumptions, but feel free to disagree.

Or you could assume that the Front Office is well aware of those issues and knowing all of that proceeded to make the deal anyway. If you make that assumption then I think it’s only logical to consider what else might have gone on to lead them to do the deal anyway. It’s evident from the information that there were discussions with Griffey about what his role would be. It’s unfathomable to me that there would have have been such discussions and there would not have also been discussions about his disappointing overall offensive performance.

I think it also likely that, beyond the numbers, the did some old-fashioned scouting type assessment of his peformance at the end of last season and decided that he might have something left to contribute. We often stress the importance of combining both numeric and observational analysis to make more informed decisions; perhaps we might consider that they may have done exactly that and decided that bringing back Griffey had more substance than just a PR stunt.

If I were sitting in the Mariners side in a negotiation such as this I would certainly be extremely clear that a season with production such as the last one is not an acceptable outcome. Last season it could be tolerated due to the circumstances of the team, but that won’t be acceptable come 2010. I would say that we are having these negotiations because we think there’s a good possibility that Griffey can be substantially more productive. But we also need to consider what happens if he isn’t cutting it.

I really can’t imagine the Mariners having negotiations with Griffery for 2010 and not addressing those types of issues as part of the process. Failing to address those issues would be incompetent, and I don’t think the Mariners front office is incompetent.

by Steve Nelson on Nov 11, 2009 10:26 AM PST up reply actions  

There's also the possibility that they value Griffey's intangible benefits (or tangible monetary benefits) more than his baseball skills

And therefore his production is a secondary concern, meaning there’s a good chance he’ll be around (though used rarely) despite being awful.

by OlSalty on Nov 11, 2009 10:29 AM PST up reply actions  

Yes - that's another point

But I suspect that’s more of a tipping point than a primary consideration. If they believed Griffey was completely useless as a contributor (which he largely was last season) they wouldn’t keep him around just for intangibles and PR sake.

But if they think he can contribute at the level expected of a reserve, it’s reasonable to let the “intangible” PR and clubhouse chemistry benefits tip the decision.

by Steve Nelson on Nov 11, 2009 10:39 AM PST up reply actions  

x
If they believed Griffey was completely useless as a contributor (which he largely was last season) they wouldn’t keep him around just for intangibles and PR sake.

Not true. They did so last year.

There’s no reason to expect Ken Griffey to be any sort of quality reserve. He has been awful for a very long time now, especially the last two years. The people running the team know this. He is being brought back because he is popular with fans and his teammates. There is no reason for him to retire if he is simply bad.

Considering that there are many 1b-DH types on the market, I have a hard time believing the Mariners will not sign a full time DH other than Griffey. I have a hard time believing that player will not be lefthanded (especially considering that Junior will reportedly accept a reduced role), if so there will not be many at bats available for Griffey at DH, and certainly not enough for him to see substantial time at the position.

by Poochie on Nov 11, 2009 11:11 AM PST up reply actions  

As I stated above last year was different

Just because they tolerated it in 2009 does not mean they will approach it the same way in 2010.

Last year it was very clear that a key objective was to clear out and end the bickering and sniping that occurred in 2008. They also knew they weren’t going to seriously contend. Accordingly the lack of production was less of an issue.

I suppose one could assume those same factors carry forward into 2010; that’s not unreasonable. I think not – I really don’t believe they are going into 2010 believing that they can devote a roster spot entirely to chemistry with no semblance of production.

I’m not arguing that if he weren’t Griffey they would be signing him up. They’re not moving to bring Sweeney back after all. But I think that they believe there is the possibility of enough value from him that the “intangibles” tip the decision.

by Steve Nelson on Nov 11, 2009 12:27 PM PST up reply actions  

The new FO has demonstrated that they "get it"

Griffey has been a replacement level player for the last few years, at age 40, and unable to play everyday as a DH, there’s no reason tho think why he’d get any better. If they’re not signing him for intangibles, and because he is a beloved figure then I have no idea what they are signing him for.

by Poochie on Nov 11, 2009 8:26 PM PST up reply actions  

Griffey quote from Stone:

“I’d like to thank the Mariners organization for inviting me back to play in 2010,” said Griffey. “While 2009 was an awesome experience for me, my ultimate goal is for the Mariners to get to and win the World Series. To that end, I look forward to contributing in any role that Don (Wakamatsu) sees fit on the field, and any manner I possibly can off the field.”

So it appears as though he understands that Wak may use him in the Sweeney role, and he’s fine with that. If that’s how he’s used, meh, we could’ve used the spot better on someone else, but it doesn’t make me too mad.

by BrettJMiller on Nov 11, 2009 10:14 AM PST reply actions  

Bum start.

At least you got alphabet though. I felt like after I had gone through every civilization a few times, all I ever got anymore was Irrigation, Mining, and Roads.

"Ever tried? Ever failed? No matter. Try again. Fail again. Fail better." - Samuel Beckett http://mvn.com/marinersminors/

by JY on Nov 11, 2009 11:41 AM PST up reply actions  

Steam doesn't sell Civ II :(

"Ever tried? Ever failed? No matter. Try again. Fail again. Fail better." - Samuel Beckett http://mvn.com/marinersminors/

by JY on Nov 11, 2009 12:11 PM PST up reply actions  

I am aware of such things.

But there was also a new release lately that’s supposed to be more compatible with newer operating systems.

I expected that would be something I could plop down five or ten bucks for, but Amazon seems to be selling it for $50. That’s horrifying. I think I’ll wait until I get back to Seattle and then see if my old CD is still viable, scratched to hell as it was last I checked.

"Ever tried? Ever failed? No matter. Try again. Fail again. Fail better." - Samuel Beckett http://mvn.com/marinersminors/

by JY on Nov 11, 2009 4:24 PM PST up reply actions  

ESPN Headline

Mariners ‘tickled pink’ with Griffey 1-year deal

abender20 hates freedom.

by Scruffy Lefty on Nov 11, 2009 3:17 PM PST reply actions  

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