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Reader Poll

Wbc_029_tiny by Jeff Sullivan on in Miscellaneous Comment 158 comments

Nothing special to this one. I'm just curious to see what people are expecting is all.

Poll
How do you think the Felix situation is going to turn out this winter?
Felix will sign an extension
888 votes
Felix will not sign an extension and will return in 2010
553 votes
Felix will get dealt
172 votes

1613 votes | Poll has closed

0 recs  |  Comment 158 comments |

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Read More: Felix Hernandez (P - SEA), Seattle Mariners

Comments

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LLemmings.

2009 Safeco Field Record: 6-0 ; Overall Safeco Field Record: 10-4

by Fin on Oct 7, 2009 10:52 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

I voted for being dealt.

Dave’s article over at USSM today confirmed basically everything I’ve been thinking, which is basically that we are not going to just stand pat this offseason.
I think it’s pretty much 50:50 but since I have to choose one, I’m leaning toward him getting dealt. The value brought back could be huge and keeping him is much more risky.
I think GMZ’s love of cheap talent will be bigger than his love of young talent.

by lailaihei on Oct 7, 2009 7:02 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

Screw cheap talent. I'd rather just keep Felix.

FUCK THE ANGELS! FUCK THE ANGELS! FUCK THE ANGELS!

by Goose on Oct 7, 2009 7:09 PM PDT up reply actions   2 recs

I doubt it.

The Seattle fans want to see a winner. The Mariners organization wants to see a winner. That’s frankly not happening without Felix next year. Additionally, I think Zduriencik can trade for important pieces without using Felix as a chip.

I love Lopez, even though he finds ways to frustrate the hell out of me 65% of the time. But his current trade value to front offices that don’t pay attention to defense is probably pretty absurd, being a 2B with 30-HR potential.

by cwel87 on Oct 8, 2009 1:08 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

He loses concentration and misses plays more often then a major leaguer should

His OPS also went up all of one point after going from 17 to 25 home runs.

Like I said, I think he’s a good player. But between him and Felix, considering what changes could come through those trades, I give up Lopez in a heartbeat. Not saying Lopez isn’t the real deal, but Felix is so much more important to this organization’s success in the near future that putting a proper value on what could be had in a trade just doesn’t compute.

Zduriencik could probably extract better value from a Lopez trade then a Felix one.

by cwel87 on Oct 8, 2009 11:50 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

If GMZ were able to extract a package like the rumored packages for Halladay, you'd almost have to take it.

I still think Felix will be re-signed, but I’d get over my heartbreak eventually if the return was right.

by abender20 on Oct 7, 2009 7:04 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

I don't know.

Felix probably has more upside than Halladay. Plus I would be heartbroken to see him go.

2009 Safeco Field Record: 6-0 ; Overall Safeco Field Record: 10-4

by Fin on Oct 7, 2009 10:54 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

There's no question a package for Felix should be more then what the Jays wanted for Halladay

It should be more then Santana, more then Bedard (…), pretty much the biggest package ever for a starting pitcher.

Consider: two years of team control, 23 year-old Cy Young candidate, still a boatload of untapped talent. The problem with trading for Felix is whoever gets him should be giving up too much to be able to compete, with the exception of maybe two or three teams.

by cwel87 on Oct 8, 2009 1:15 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

That's actually my entire point

If the Jays didn’t get what they were looking for in regards to a 32-year old ace, finding suitors to give us the equal value for giving up a 23-year old ace is going to be ridiculous, if done right. And I have confidence it will be done right.

by cwel87 on Oct 8, 2009 6:35 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Really tough one.

This poll made me realize that I really have no idea of what’s going to happen. Even as a third party, I’d really have no idea of which is more likely.

by BigR on Oct 7, 2009 7:07 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

I think it's pretty obvious that choice 2 won't happen...

Zduriencik is smart enough to get a Bedard’s ransom if Felix rejects a reasonable deal. There’s no way he starts the season with the M’s if no contract is signed. It just doesn’t make sense. Riccardi lost his job for holding onto Halladay.

by basebliman on Oct 7, 2009 7:47 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

Bedard's ransom isn't enough for Felix

start with Adam Jones and you need at least one other league average regular in there, plus a close to the majors starter

by seattlebruin on Oct 7, 2009 9:46 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

He's just following in Flo-Rida's steps.

It’s the new hip thing!

The Yankees suck-a-doodle-doo!

by JamMasterJesus on Oct 7, 2009 10:54 PM PDT up reply actions   1 recs

I wouldn't mind the M's becoming the new hip team.

2009 Safeco Field Record: 6-0 ; Overall Safeco Field Record: 10-4

by Fin on Oct 7, 2009 10:54 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

OOOH.

Celebrities holding rally fry signs!!!!

by msb on Oct 8, 2009 8:59 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

1993

...and now I'm here

by CapSea on Oct 7, 2009 10:58 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

I have to reccomend this comment because you, Coach, said "fitty"

Yesterday's Pants
A blog-thingy about the Mariners and stuff.

by BrettJMiller on Oct 8, 2009 1:56 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

I don't want to see Felix resign.

I’d rather see him re-sign.

I will smash your face into a jelly.

by Phildopip on Oct 8, 2009 7:35 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

I'm thinking some kind of extension is going to happen.

If not I think he returns in 2010.

I’m not sure how dealing him this offseason would work unless the Front Office is convinced well ahead of time that an extension cannot be reached. Seems like you can get the maximum return on Felix if it’s readily apparent from the get-go that he’s on the market. Don’t think it’s going to be as effective if they try doing it in January, for example. Then again, given the things leaked at the past trading deadline (Red Sox proposal for Felix), the ball might already be rolling to the point where if they can’t reach an extension the trigger can be pulled on a trade.

by ThundaPC on Oct 7, 2009 9:00 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

So if we keep Felix the rotation is just Felix, an Aussie, and three medicore guys

And if we trade him Hyphen becomes the teams ace. How the hell did Texas win 87 games?

by Crooklyn Banks on Oct 7, 2009 9:14 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

Is it ture that Prince Fielder is on the block?

If he is, I have a feeling Dave might have his wish with having JJ Hardy as the Mariners SS in 2010.

by Crooklyn Banks on Oct 7, 2009 9:24 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Felix, Lopez, and Josh Wilson For Fielder, Hardy, and Gallardo!

But seriously, Fielder and Hardy is a good start for a Felix package.

by lailaihei on Oct 7, 2009 9:26 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Maybe

But I am just throwing it out there, I keep think that the rotation is screwed either way.

by Crooklyn Banks on Oct 7, 2009 9:33 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Well....

(Hi, from a frequent commenter on BrewCrewBall!)
The Brewers offense is not the problem. They scored the third most runs in the national league. I, personally, hope that they keep Prince Fielder unless they get an enormous prize for him. If we do trade him, there has been discussion on BCB that the crew could move Mat Gamel—one of our top two prospects—to first base due to his poor fielding skills. That would also allow Casey McGehee to stay at third.

 In all honesty though, Fielder and Hardy is about all that I would give up. And even that I am unsure I about. It’s one of the most elite bats for one of the most elite pitchers, basically. Same amount of service time left. The Brewers need a pitcher, the Mariners need a Bat. Seems at least worth looking into to me.

by NoahJ on Oct 7, 2009 11:53 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Perhaps you haven't seen Felix pitch

The pleasure of being able to sit down and watch Felix take the mound for your favorite team is worth JJ Hardy in and of itself.

Past that, we’re starting to talk about the actual worth of Felix the pitcher.

by cwel87 on Oct 8, 2009 1:24 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

I really know that rosterbating is pointless.

But I really like trying to figure out what teams are most likely to make a play for Felix and players that would HAVE to come in deals with those teams.
For example: the Red Sox are an obvious candidate, and we would almost certainly get Buchholz back in a deal with them.
If the Dodgers were to make a play, it wouldn’t happen without Kemp or Kershaw.

Just a couple examples, but if you don’t want any of that I’ll shut up.

by lailaihei on Oct 7, 2009 9:37 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

My heart says he signs,

but my brain says he goes.

And that makes me cry. :(

Fuck the Angels! And the Yankees and Red Sox while we're at it.

by urchman on Oct 7, 2009 9:38 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

I voted for #1, but deep down I don't believe it will happen.

We can’t offer him the contract his agent thinks he can get elsewhere and he’s a young professional ballplayer who hasn’t had his first big payday yet. I think he wants that and knows he deserves that. Why should he take the risk that the M’s won’t/shouldn’t take? He knows someone will step up with their checkbook and he’s got to get it now because he may not be of much value in 5 years. It’s a gamble, but he’s got the cards right now. I’ll miss him, but wish him the best as long as he goes to the NL.

by Sinking Away on Oct 7, 2009 9:42 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

I voted for #3 but think there is a chance for #1

As Dave said at USS wrote a little while ago, there is a 4-6 year contract that Felix and his agent would probably take. It’s just a question of what the salaries would look like and if the M’s could afford it.

Felix will get his full arbitration number this year. Let’s say that’s hypothetically $10M.
Assuming he’s healthy after next season, he’d get another arbitration about, hypothetically $13M.
Assuming he’s healthy when he hits Free Agency, he’s probably looking at CC and Johan’s contracts as a baseline. That’s $23M per year for 6-8 years. Let’s say the economy has rebounded by then and he gets 8 years x $25M per.

In this scenario, Felix would earn $223M over the next 10 years. The issue for Felix and his agent is that there is a non-zero chance that he gets injured over the next two seasons and never sees his big payday. You also deal with economic utility theory that says that the next $100M Felix makes will be of much higher value to Felix in setting his family up for life than the following $100M.

I think that’s where Dave got his 6 year / $100M guestimate from. It’s slightly less than the annual numbers above (for his last two years of club control and first 4 of free agency), but more than he’d receive if he were to get injured over the next two seasons.

The big questions are:
1) would the M’s do that contract?
2) would Felix?

by CMC_Stags on Oct 7, 2009 10:05 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

The M's would do it.

I doubt his agent would let him do it.

by Sinking Away on Oct 7, 2009 10:09 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Felix would jump at $100m/6yr

The question is whether Z is comfortable making that sort of offer to a pitcher.

by Jeff Sullivan on Oct 7, 2009 10:14 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

I disagree

You’re giving him cash up front, right now, to squeeze two years at the end of the deal for $17.5M/year. 4/$65 holds a lot more value for Felix then it does for the Mariners organization, because he’ll have gained two years of security and still be able to reach the free agent market before a pitcher’s prime (27).

by cwel87 on Oct 8, 2009 1:33 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

I agree a four year extension seems much more likely.

It seems to make more sense for both sides.

I am not familiar with Felix’s agent. Who else does he represent?

Wherever I go, that's where I am.

by noontide on Oct 8, 2009 12:20 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Alan Nero

I believe he is the main MLB agent for CSMG Sports. The list of their MLB clients is here.

Notables include:
Wladimir Balentien – Seattle Mariners (needs updating apparently)
Asdrubal Cabrera – Cleveland Indians
Shin-Soo Choo – Cleveland Indians
Elijah Dukes – Washington Nationals
Franklin Gutierrez – Seattle Mariners
Angel Guzman – Chicago Cubs
Felix Hernandez – Seattle Mariners
Akinori Iwamura – Tampa Bay Devil Rays
Kenji Johjima – Seattle Mariners
Randy Johnson – San Francisco Giants
Bryan LaHair – Seattle Mariners
Victor Martinez – Cleveland Indians
Chien-Ming Wang – New York Yankees
Ben Zobrist – Tampa Bay Devil Rays

by CMC_Stags on Oct 8, 2009 12:32 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Thanks!

This leads me even more towards thinking an extension will be signed. To bad Felix isn’t Japanese, because the owners would have already signed him to a 20 year kajillion dollar estension!

Wherever I go, that's where I am.

by noontide on Oct 8, 2009 12:37 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Actually, Ichiro signed a well below market value extension

and Kenji signed a ~market value extension based on past performance.

Should Felix be Japanese and influenced by the owners and signed by GMZ, something in the range of 4/$60 is much more likely that 20/$infinity.

by seattlebruin on Oct 8, 2009 12:39 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

What he wouldn't get a 20/kajillion?

Agree to disagree I guess… When in Rome.

BTW market value, for Kenji’s play at the time of his signing, was a minor league contract.

Wherever I go, that's where I am.

by noontide on Oct 8, 2009 1:12 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Well, you know what they say

the squeaky wheel gets the grease.

Nice Guys Finish Third - My semantics are a waste of time.

by pdb on Oct 8, 2009 1:43 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Well, sure

but a watched pot never boils, does it?

Nice Guys Finish Third - My semantics are a waste of time.

by pdb on Oct 8, 2009 1:51 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

You are so wise...

you are like a minature Buddha, covered in hair.

Wherever I go, that's where I am.

by noontide on Oct 8, 2009 2:01 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Wow

Eight of the fourteen clients have played for or currently play for the M’s.

That should be a good sign in regards to Felix.

by cwel87 on Oct 8, 2009 12:39 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

There are more clients than that

But I included all current or past Mariners in the notables list.

by CMC_Stags on Oct 8, 2009 1:06 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

If the Mariners aren't going to pay Felix now, who are they ever going to pay?

23 years old, their own prize prospect becoming dominant and flashing brilliance. Trader Jack will look at all options but I think they get a deal done.

by lemonverbena on Oct 7, 2009 9:55 PM PDT reply actions   1 recs

What if his agent wants $400M over 15 years?

Will you be livid then?

As Jeff wrote, people speaking in certainties around this issue is silly. Jack and the FO certainly won’t leak the details to the press, so how are you going to judge their decision?

Felix is an adult, deserves to be paid, and has representation in the form of an agent.

The Mariners are a business, cannot afford to make a mistake to the same degree of the Yankees (Brown, Pavano, etc.), and are run by people who know far more about the business of baseball than us.

by CMC_Stags on Oct 7, 2009 10:10 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

My definition of 'ponying up' is more like

just give him what he deserves. and I believe that’s 4-6 years at $20-$25 per year.

Anything outlandish you have to really think about, of course. But Felix is the real freakin deal.

The Yankees suck-a-doodle-doo!

by JamMasterJesus on Oct 7, 2009 10:19 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

I think its safe to say Felix is in a whole different world

When comparing to Pavano, or Brown (and it was the Dodgers that gave him the insane money). Felix is at an age when most pitchers are just making it to the big leagues.

Pavano only had 2 seasons of getting 30+ starts in his first 8 years in the big leagues. He was a injury prone player who had one big year an got a big contract for it (at the age of 28). Browns contract was stupid for sure, but he was like what.. 33 or 34. At 24 Felix is a legit staff ace who still has room to improve

I hate to advocate drugs, alcohol, violence, or insanity to anyone, but they've always worked for me.

by wadswerth on Oct 8, 2009 4:25 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

So were Prior, Woods, and a host of other pitchers

See Dave’s link at USS Mariner for the list of pitchers who had thrown over 800 IP by the age of 23. Some went on to be Hall of Famers. Some just flamed out.

by CMC_Stags on Oct 8, 2009 11:08 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Because the only pitchers to ever break down were managed by Dusty?

From’s Dave’s article that I assume sparked this poll:

If you want to look at all pitchers who have put up similar performances to Felix through age 23, then you can compare historically. But you’re not going to like the results.

Pitchers break down. You can’t get around this.

Here’s the list of pitchers with more than 800 innings by the age of 23.

Then check Felix’s page for the most similar pitchers by age. The only Hall of Famer is Eckersley who flamed out as a starter and had to move to the bullpen.

Assuming Felix is indestructible and building a team on the opinion is crazy.

by CMC_Stags on Oct 8, 2009 12:21 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

No one is indestructable.

So I suppose building a team around anyone would be suspect.

The fact of the matter is, when looking back, hindsight is always 20/20. But we’re not dealing with other situations; we’re dealing with Felix. We have to properly analyze the situation based on those facts presented and make a decision. And the best choice for this organization is to re-sign Felix to around six years and potentially bite the bullet that every organization faces with every pitcher. It could fail miserably, it could end up being about market value, or the Mariners could win this deal by a margin not previously seen before the likes of the King.

I’ll take door number three.

by cwel87 on Oct 8, 2009 12:37 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Logic fail

You wrote:

“We have to properly analyze the situation based on those facts presented and make a decision.”

Agreed.

“And the best choice for this organization is to re-sign Felix to around six years and potentially bite the bullet that every organization faces with every pitcher.”

I don’t see a shred of analysis with your position that the team needs to resign him.

I would love to see Felix signed to a deal that is fair for both the team and the player. I’m not sure that such a deal exists. If you can show that there is indesputable evidence that such a deal exists and that both sides would accept it, then great. But you haven’t shown that at all and are just speaking in certainties you can’t possibly know.

by CMC_Stags on Oct 8, 2009 1:09 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

The amount we would get back in a trade would not allow a truly competitive product next year

Unless we get a very good solidified starter plus a positional all-star. The facts presented are: Felix is 23 years old. Felix is just now becoming what will be a perennial Cy Young candidate as long as he stays healthy. Felix has not yet reached his obscene potential.

The ‘healthy’ caveat is an argument for every pitcher; that’s why this process is a turbulent one. But with those player facts, and with the fact that the team will find it very difficult to compete without Felix next year, there’s really no question the best choice is to re-sign him.

by cwel87 on Oct 8, 2009 2:15 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

And, of course, it's pending on a mutual salary number both sides can agree on

But if both sides can hammer out a deal (and I don’t really see why they couldn’t), keeping the King has about an 80% chance to be better for the short-term, and about a 60% chance to be better for the long-term, factoring in injury risks. And if we’re dealing with a 6/$105M as a landmark, that’s for $5.5M more annually then we pay Silva.

I play a lot of poker; people call it luck, but there’s percentage-based success and failure to everything we do. Give me those percentages every single time. Sometimes I’ll fail, but more often then not, I’ll succeed.

by cwel87 on Oct 8, 2009 2:21 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Didn't Eckersley flame out due to his alcohol problem?

You also cant assume that Felix will have a career destroying injury.

And off that list one of the main things i noticed is how rare it is in this day and age for a pitcher to do so good so young.

I hate to advocate drugs, alcohol, violence, or insanity to anyone, but they've always worked for me.

by wadswerth on Oct 10, 2009 12:04 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Prior never even hit 800 innings in his career.

And Wood had Tommy John Surgery after his first ML season. I understand there is a risk with pitchers, But just straight assuming he will get injuried doesnt make sense. There is a risk, but there is that risk with any player you give big money to.

I hate to advocate drugs, alcohol, violence, or insanity to anyone, but they've always worked for me.

by wadswerth on Oct 9, 2009 11:53 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

The point is that we sill have almost no clue, scientifically, of what really goes on when a pitcher throws a baseball nearly 100 mph.

It’s like the inside of a tornado was for the longest time. One of the few things we as fans and analysts can do to help properly evaluate the risks (and it’s VERY unreliable still) is look at attrition rates for comparable pitchers and decide what he’s worth. I think Dave Cameron or Graham or someone said that a pitcher is 5-10 times more likely to sustain an injury that requires surgery than a position player is over the course of a big long contract. Felix is probably the best bet you could ever make on an ace pitcher with two years of club control left, but it’s still a bet.

by Decatur on Oct 10, 2009 6:35 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Fucked

My Mariners blog - SodoMojo Twitter Feed, Fuck the fucking Angels!

by gregrabble on Oct 7, 2009 10:12 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Fucked

My Mariners blog - SodoMojo Twitter Feed, Fuck the fucking Angels!

by gregrabble on Oct 7, 2009 10:12 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

My point was that it's too risky to pay him $100 mil/6years.

That is not a good business decision and I doubt that the M’s will make it.

by Sinking Away on Oct 7, 2009 10:17 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Too risky?

7 years, $161 million for a 28-year old pitcher is too risky.
6 years, $137.5 million for a 29-year old pitcher is too risky.
7 years, $126 million for a 29-year old pitcher is too risky.

6 years, $100 million for a 24-year old pitcher may be risky, but nowhere near “too risky.” At the end of this contract, Felix will be around the age those other pitchers signed their deals. If there was ever a player worth the risk, Felix is the pitcher.

by Wilder. on Oct 8, 2009 2:21 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Definately fucked.

The Yankees suck-a-doodle-doo!

by JamMasterJesus on Oct 7, 2009 10:20 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Boned!

You got slurved!

by Slurvey on Oct 7, 2009 10:47 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

It's a risk that's well worth taking.

FUCK THE ANGELS! FUCK THE ANGELS! FUCK THE ANGELS!

by Goose on Oct 7, 2009 10:50 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Well, ideally, we should've extended Felix before he got expensive... *cough*Bavasi*cough*

Now we’re stuck on either paying a boatload or shipping him off for as much talent as possible.

by ThundaPC on Oct 7, 2009 10:15 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

I mean, most teams that bottom out like the M's did wind up running around like their hair is on fire.

This has been the smoothest rebuild I’ve ever seen. Maybe there’s been something else like this and I’m just not familiar with the situation, but this has gone as brilliantly as anything I could possibly imagine. Realistically imagine.

by Kermit. on Oct 7, 2009 10:24 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

I can't wait to talk about this every day for the next 6 months.

There is nothing more exciting than throwing out arbitrary contract numbers using math we created in our own heads. Yeah, this is going to be sweet.

...and now I'm here

by CapSea on Oct 7, 2009 10:52 PM PDT reply actions   2 recs

I voted for #1

out of nothing but pure hope.

Fuck Anaheim.

by Professor Hubert J. Farnsworth on Oct 7, 2009 11:01 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

I don't think Felix gets traded and I don't think he re-signs.

Jack may listen to offers, but it would have to be a deal where we get the moon and the stars in return. The deal allegedly offered by the Red Sox at the trade deadline was incredible. I think the only thing missing in that deal was a sure bet position player prospect (like Hanley Ramirez was a few years ago in the Beckett trade).

Find a Pujols, Hanley, or Longoria position player with a couple top arms, then I say make the deal. But I think in this market it would be difficult for Jack to find a match.

I want so badly for Felix to re-sign, but I just don’t think he will do it unless it breaks records.

by Wilder. on Oct 8, 2009 2:31 AM PDT reply actions   0 recs

See, that's just it

I don’t understand why people think a few good prospects is worth Felix. Josh Beckett is a very good top of the rotation arm, but he’s not even on the same stratosphere as Felix. And the Sox gave up Hanley Ramirez for him.

Similarly for Bedard; he had one good year, and the O’s received Adam Jones and top pitching prospects in return. Granted, that’s more because Bavasi swindled himself then anything else, but when you look at the amount of quality players received in trades for very good arms (not Felix arms), you’ve got to consider the fact that if Felix does get traded, it would have to be an utterly insane haul.

by cwel87 on Oct 8, 2009 4:35 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

The market for established players has shifted dramatically in the past year or so.

Teams are getting smarter and realizing that prospects have a lot more value than they might have thought in the past. There are still dumb teams out there that are willing to gut their farm systems, but there aren’t nearly as many of them and the majority of them don’t have the money/reasons to trade for a player like Felix.

by acblue on Oct 8, 2009 2:11 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Imagine if Dayton Moore had Texas' farm system...

hello Justin Smoak, Neftali Feliz and others!

by seattlebruin on Oct 9, 2009 9:08 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

I went with him getting signed.

But that is off nothing other then i want to see him pitching with the M’s.

I hate to advocate drugs, alcohol, violence, or insanity to anyone, but they've always worked for me.

by wadswerth on Oct 8, 2009 3:12 AM PDT reply actions   0 recs

Okay, I have a question based off Dave's USSM article.

Dave said this:

the Mariners aren’t winning anything in 2010 without Felix Hernandez. You can try to get some major league ready players back in any Felix deal, but there’s no replacing a +5 win pitcher.

Our defense had the ability to make a below average pitcher (Washburn, maybe RRS) look like a staff ace in terms of results. In some ways, the results for Washburn were not even that far off from Felix for most of the season. Does that change anything? Or is the assumption that there is no way we could upgrade our offense without downgrading our defense, causing most of these below average pitchers to bring about average/below average results?

I don’t have an answer, I’m more wondering whether defense makes a difference in deciding how important a pitcher’s value is to the team’s likely success.

...and now I'm here

by CapSea on Oct 8, 2009 5:32 AM PDT reply actions   0 recs

Or, to put it another way.

If you have two pitchers, both with low HR/FB rates, but one sucks (lots of line drives,etc) and the other is excellent (groundballs, strikeouts), and you have a theoretical defense that is able to catch every ball in play, then the fact that one pitcher is good and the other is bad does not matter, since all balls in play will be outs.

So if our defense is able to turn most BIP into outs, does that reduce the need for Felix at all? Or does that not matter?

...and now I'm here

by CapSea on Oct 8, 2009 5:36 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Mariners - Felix = sad days ahead

Racer X. You have to love those amarillo hops.

p.s. fuck you angels

by InSpokane on Oct 8, 2009 10:20 AM PDT reply actions   1 recs

If we do trade him, I'm hoping he goes to the Braves.

For some reason, I find them so boring year-in and year-out despite having some truly fabulous players. Maybe that will help anestitize us against the pain.

by Decatur on Oct 10, 2009 6:37 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

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Recent MLB Spring Training Stories

SB Nation's 2010 MLB Previews: Texas Rangers, Dripping With Promise

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Milwaukee Brewers third baseman Mat Gamel can't field a bunt by Chicago Cubs' Kosuke Fukudome, of Japan, during the first inning of a baseball game in Chicago, Thursday, Sept. 17, 2009.(AP Photo/Nam Y. Huh)

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Texas Rangers' Nelson Cruz, left, and Chris Davis, center, are congratulated by Toby Hall, right, after they scored on a double by Elvis Andrus against the Colorado Rockies in the third inning of a Cactus League spring baseball game in Tucson, Ariz., on Thursday, March 11, 2010. (AP Photo/Ed Andrieski)

SB Nation's 2010 MLB Previews: Texas Rangers, Dripping With Promise

In this photo taken on Sunday, Feb. 21, 2010, Colorado Rockies pitcher Huston Street throws from the mound during baseball spring training in Tucson, Ariz. Street has not worked out with the team in four days because of a sore shoulder. (AP Photo/Ed Andrieski)

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