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Sounders Playoffs Gamethread

 

CONTEXT

The Seattle Sounders FC and the Houston Dynamo will face each other in the 2009 MLS playoffs, which begins tonight in Seattle.

KEY PLAYERS

Seattle:

Roster

Houston:

Roster

Both the Sounders and Dynamo are filled to the brim with possible difference-makers.

KEY QUESTIONS

Can the Seattle Sounders outscore the Houston Dynamo?

They can.

Can the Houston Dynamo outscore the Seattle Sounders?

They can.

Will one of the Seattle Sounders and Houston Dynamo outscore the other?

Most certainly likely!

X FACTOR

Jaqua

CONCLUSION

GO SOUNDERS!!

 

h/t Jeff for the template

0 recs  |  Comment 388 comments

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LET'S DO IT!

Though I imagine most of the commenters who would enjoy this thread are at the game. :(

by Teej on Oct 29, 2009 7:24 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

Well hey even if it's just a couple of us it could be a good thread.

Looking at those Sounders season tickets again, trying to see if any of my friends will get in on ’em with me.

by lailaihei on Oct 29, 2009 7:27 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

I'll admit at the outset

that I don’t know much of anything about soccer; my interest has only been piqued this year. But any Seattle team in the playoffs is awesome! GO SOUNDERS!

by stupidquestions on Oct 29, 2009 7:27 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

Most of my comments in this thread don't look very good.

But the match was pretty frantic, and there were 10 shots on goal between the two teams when it was all over. I’m still stunned no one scored.

by Teej on Oct 30, 2009 10:08 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

What the fuck was that, Freddie

Montero was clear through on goal if you passed it to him

by Graham on Oct 29, 2009 7:38 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

I really can't get over how there were mutual yellow cards on that play.

I’m assuming the officials didn’t see anything and didn’t know what else to do.

by Teej on Oct 29, 2009 7:45 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

Dumb question, since I've never been to a match:

Are those flashing digital ads on the sidelines actually there, or is only on the TV?

by Teej on Oct 29, 2009 7:51 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

Yes they are real

Only team in the MLS to have them I believe.

by Robert on Oct 29, 2009 11:08 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

The pitches are usually raised from ground level

and the slope of the ground outside the boundaries obscures the signs from field level for the most part, at least in Europe. Qwest appears to be a bit flatter though, so I don’t know.

Nice Guys Finish Third - My semantics are a waste of time.

by pdb on Oct 30, 2009 6:55 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

It's normally just a foul

They only get really pissy if you do that in the lower leagues

by Graham on Oct 29, 2009 7:55 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

There was a free kick.

If it wasn’t intentional, there’s no need for anything more.

Fuck Anaheim.

by Professor Hubert J. Farnsworth on Oct 29, 2009 7:55 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

I just saw that on the replay--

with the comment from the official at Qwest that had it been a chestbump to the head or face it would be a red card, but with a bump to the body you had to factor in intent (well, yes) and how hard (um, pretty hard) to make it a red card

by msb on Oct 29, 2009 8:22 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

It was clearly a red

Refs missed the call, saw the fracas, and tried to make up for it by booking both of them. Really awful call

by Graham on Oct 29, 2009 8:23 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

I had a really good view of it at the game.

Motero didn’t do anything, it was all Onstad.

by redwolf75 on Oct 29, 2009 11:22 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

I don't know what it is about Montero, but he seems to bring it out of people.

Jealousy? Hype? Maybe he’s mastered some great insults in English that he can mutter under his breath?

by Teej on Oct 29, 2009 11:25 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Montero was diving A LOT throughout the game.

It’s funny that on one of the few plays he gets legitimately fouled, he gets carded. Fuck you Salazar.

by redwolf75 on Oct 29, 2009 11:32 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

I'm inclined to think he dives a bit, but he also gets manhandled and isn't the biggest guy, so the truth is somewhere in the middle.

I saw him get legitimately pulled down several times today with no call. And he’s a finesse player whose feet are moving a lot. I’m more understanding of a guy like him falling than I am a stronger midfielder.

by Teej on Oct 29, 2009 11:35 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Yeah, pretty great.

Evans is working hard as hell this game.

by lailaihei on Oct 29, 2009 7:59 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Riley needs to stop pushing up out of position

It’s dragging Jaqua back into defence which is a bad plan

by Graham on Oct 29, 2009 7:59 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

ESPN2 and it looks like shit.

It’s snowy, it’s dark as fuck and the sound is crackly.

by acblue on Oct 29, 2009 8:14 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

I can't believe that I live in one of the wealthiest, most technologically advanced cities in one of the wealthiest, most technologically advanced nations on earth

and the only people that can provide me with cable are worse than the people that provided my family with cable 20 years ago in the middle of nowhere. What the fuck. What the fucking fuck.

by acblue on Oct 29, 2009 8:28 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Progress!

[DELETED ZOMG NO POLITICS]

by bluemax on Oct 29, 2009 8:29 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Also only $600?

I pay probably around a grand a year for DirecTV!

[DELETED ZOMG NO POLITICS]

by bluemax on Oct 29, 2009 8:30 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

I pay nearly two grand, though that includes cable and phone.

Fuck. I had never done the math before. Sad face.

by Teej on Oct 29, 2009 8:30 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Our passing has been shocking today

We should be up by two or three

by Graham on Oct 29, 2009 8:14 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

I know we had the turf-vs.-grass discussion already, but I don't think this was covered.

Is it just me, or does the ball bounce a LOT higher on this turf than it does on decent grass?

by Teej on Oct 29, 2009 8:33 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

Halcyon days

I’ve been enjoying the fact that, as much as I’m getting into soccer, I really know very little about the sport. It’s made it easy to cheer for the Sounders without worrying as much as I would if I were watching the M’s or Seahawks in a playoff game.

by katal on Oct 29, 2009 8:40 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

So close!

[DELETED ZOMG NO POLITICS]

by bluemax on Oct 29, 2009 8:45 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

Uugh

Woe is me

by krb on Oct 29, 2009 8:45 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

What the hell

[DELETED ZOMG NO POLITICS]

by bluemax on Oct 29, 2009 8:47 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

Above I wrote that I'm still learning soccer.

That said, I picked up pretty early on in the MLS season that Riley isn’t good. I’m proud of that.

by katal on Oct 29, 2009 8:51 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Keller is a fucking baller.

I can tell it is him because my sharpness is turned up so high he is a big white dot.

by acblue on Oct 29, 2009 8:50 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

Another one!

but probably deserved that time.

Fuck Anaheim.

by Professor Hubert J. Farnsworth on Oct 29, 2009 8:52 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

Maybe he needs head injuries more often

this is the first time I can remember him being this active

by msb on Oct 29, 2009 9:02 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

On through balls they should be erring for inside

Having the ball wander off outside kills the momentum of the play :(

by Graham on Oct 29, 2009 9:07 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

It seems like the Sounders are super aggressive and very poor defensively

while Houston are patient, strong on defense and terrible at finishing.

by acblue on Oct 29, 2009 9:11 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

The Sounders look awful on defense, but they didn't allow many goals this year.

I’m not sure how much of that is luck, or their awesome keeper. But yes, they definitely are aggressive on the attack.

by Teej on Oct 29, 2009 9:12 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

My take...

Both teams are good at goal prevention, the Sounders more by the keeper and the Dynamo more by the defenders.
Both teams are decently adept at goal scoring, however the Sounders are better at setting up goals whereas the Dynamo have Ching, who is the most adept goal scorer of anyone on the field.

by lailaihei on Oct 29, 2009 9:13 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

I went to middle and high school with Cam Weaver.

No one really liked him much. He was good at sports but tried way too hard to be cool.

by katal on Oct 29, 2009 9:12 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

I know most of the chants

having been to almost all the home games this year.

The common ones you will hear are

“Seattle – Sounders” (Alternating between halves of the stadium)

“Score a goal, score a goal, score a goal, score a goal” at any random time

and my favorite " You Suck Asshole" any time the opposing keeper kicks the ball

by CKremer on Nov 1, 2009 1:50 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

He really did look lost.

Montero looked pretty good. I’m wondering why he was removed so early.

by Teej on Oct 29, 2009 9:20 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Freddy looked

Completely winded when they took him out.

And since this was an actually important game they couldn’t put up with his compete loss of what is going on around him much more.

by CKremer on Nov 1, 2009 1:51 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

That last sentence doesn't even make sense.

In addition, Fredy looked good on the field Thursday. It was those “going on around him” that seemed lost.

by NOLAmarinergirl on Nov 2, 2009 8:23 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Agreed.

He looked like the golden god of football compared to Ljungberg, and Jaqua just wasn’t involved (because he needs help).
Not Fredy’s best game, but far from his worst.

by marc w on Nov 2, 2009 9:49 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Lame

[DELETED ZOMG NO POLITICS]

by bluemax on Oct 29, 2009 9:19 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

Nuts.

The Sounders dominated. Walking away with zero goals is a kick in the dick.

by Teej on Oct 29, 2009 9:20 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

We made more stupid turnovers by a decent margin

Passing was shocking, decision making was bad. Houston had all of it together but we’re more talented than they are. It all cancelled

by Graham on Oct 29, 2009 9:22 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Houston had some defensive lapses though.

We took Ching out of the game for the most part, too, and made some key defensive stops.

I think the main story of this game, though, is missed opportunities and ridiculous saves. Both teams missed some great opportunities by hitting the ball right at the keeper and both teams had some balls that looked like sure goals, only to be shut down.

by lailaihei on Oct 29, 2009 9:25 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Really?

I guess I’m looking at chances on goal. The Sounders were living in Houston’s box (tee hee).

by Teej on Oct 29, 2009 9:21 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Most of those chances were on corners

We had very little going on open play

by Graham on Oct 29, 2009 9:32 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

I see the refs lose another game for a Seattle team.

Surprise, surprise!

A Mariners fan in Seattle

by Coach Owens on Oct 29, 2009 9:21 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

Well, tie anyways...

A Mariners fan in Seattle

by Coach Owens on Oct 29, 2009 9:21 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

really

I think I’ve used that word about 20 times in this thread.

by Teej on Oct 29, 2009 9:23 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

The Sounders's main problem in attacking is, perversely, in their defence

Observe what happens when possession comes back. It’s almost like clockwork. Square pass to each defender on a flat line with the opposition pressing closer and closer with each pass. The midfielders don’t do a good enough job opening up passing lanes by dropping back, and the only guy on that line with the capability to break out is Leo Gonzalez on the left. The pressure from the opposition becomes untenable and the ball is either played back to Keller or scrambled somewhere with no time. Gonzalez tries to fix it by running it out, but he crashes straight into the back of Zakwani half the time and gets shoved off the ball, and is then caught out of position.

Midfielders need to drop back for distribution (Evans and Alonso) or the defence needs to accept that they have a tonne of time on the ball and ping it long to a winger or forward. This way just isn’t working.

by Graham on Oct 29, 2009 9:29 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

It's like 1964 Division 1 all over again!

Strict squad numbers for everyone!

Nice Guys Finish Third - My semantics are a waste of time.

by pdb on Oct 29, 2009 9:30 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Can you figure out their formation?

ESPN lists it as 4-4-2 but it’s pretty clearly not. 4-1-3-1-1?

by Graham on Oct 29, 2009 9:32 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

As near as I could tell it varied

between a 4-1-3-1-1 and a 4-4-1-1. Neither one worked with any degree of success.

Nice Guys Finish Third - My semantics are a waste of time.

by pdb on Oct 29, 2009 9:33 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

It's hard to play a match when you can't pass

Also the turf hurt us on a couple of those balls forward

by Graham on Oct 29, 2009 9:34 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

To be fair, Riley is normally pretty good at breaking out and getting forward

For whatever reason he was way the hell off tonight and got eaten up by Davis out on the wing.

(It’s Zakuani, by the way.)

by Nick S on Oct 29, 2009 11:42 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Lalas' key point of the game?

Houston should thank its lucky stars they still have a keeper, because “99 times out of 100 that is a red card”

by msb on Oct 29, 2009 9:31 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

As much as I hate listening to the average baseball commentator on national TV

the ESPN soccer guys are waaaaaaay worse.

David Beckham’s in the playoffs! For the first time! YOU TOLD US THAT 37 TIMES ALREADY IN THE LAST THREE MINUTES SHUT THE FUCK UP

Nice Guys Finish Third - My semantics are a waste of time.

by pdb on Oct 29, 2009 9:33 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Yep

Completely different game if they get the call right. Houston down to ten men, inexperienced goalkeeper, Onstad suspended, Montero on for longer (and Fredy was the most dangerous man on the pitch in my view)

by Graham on Oct 29, 2009 9:33 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

So, Salazar is awesome

“Salazar, who disallowed an apparent Seattle goal by calling a foul up the field in the 77th minute, was asked after the game why he cautioned both players and explained that Onstad was given a yellow card for “game disrepute” and Montero for “faking injury.”"

by cougfan on Oct 29, 2009 11:00 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

Fire Away

Pat Onstad:
“On the incident with Fredy Montero: “To be honest I just gave him a super light bump and he went down like he normally does. He rolled around a few times. If it would have been Nate Jaqua, he would have brushed his shoulder like a fly was buzzing him. That is Fredy, and as soon as I bumped him I told myself that was the wrong guy to bump. I got what I deserved and the referee thought he embellished it a little bit.”"

by cougfan on Oct 29, 2009 11:39 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

Zakuani needs to be more physical. I can't count how many times

opposing players just pushed him away from the ball.

by redwolf75 on Oct 29, 2009 11:39 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

No idea, really

It’s more frustrating he wasn’t sent off. A yellow to a keeper means nothing. There was no way he’d get a second yellow. If he had been sent off Houston loses their keeper, another player, and has to play with a backup in goal. Completely changes the game

by cougfan on Oct 30, 2009 12:03 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

As someone who reads a lot of soccer journalism and match reports

I would like to propose a moratorium on American journalists calling soccer “the beautiful game”. I’m tired of most cliches but that one especially is well past its shelf life, Steve Kelley.

Nice Guys Finish Third - My semantics are a waste of time.

by pdb on Oct 30, 2009 9:01 AM PDT reply actions   0 recs

MLS - The Adequate Game

Catch the fever!

Nice Guys Finish Third - My semantics are a waste of time.

by pdb on Oct 30, 2009 9:14 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Watching highlights of the Chelsea-Bolton match immediately after this game was amusing

Turns out that good teams don’t stop forward movement on breakaways

by Graham on Oct 30, 2009 9:16 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Funny how that works.

I had very high hopes for the Colorado Rapids a couple years ago, when they signed a partnership agreement with Arsenal – the agreement apparently included/includes coaching of the Rapids (both players and coaches) by Arsenal staff in London during MLS’ offseason, and a “consultant” on staff at Arsenal whenever the Rapids wanted assistance. I was hoping they’d start to train their players in the Arsenal/United/Barca mode of incessant short crisp passes, and that the Rapids would soon run so riot over the rest of MLS that other teams would have no choice but to try to catch up. To say that didn’t happen would be an understatement.

Nice Guys Finish Third - My semantics are a waste of time.

by pdb on Oct 30, 2009 9:22 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Yeah.

It’s really frustrating – and I don’t give two shits about the Rapids. I just really want the MLS to be a much better league than it is – quality of play is far better than when it started, but it’s sorta plateaued and that’s frustrating.

Nice Guys Finish Third - My semantics are a waste of time.

by pdb on Oct 30, 2009 9:25 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Sort of frustrating, but it actually looked better than most home matches in the 2nd half of the year.

Houston totally outplayed Seattle for stretches (including immediately after the 2nd half whistle), Seattle is better up front and perhaps in defense (Houston’s slow), but Ljungberg was outplayed by Holden/Clark.
This actually wasn’t Ljungberg’s worst game in Seattle, but it was his first outright shitty game in a long, long time.

I understand why they do that 4-1-3-1-1 thing, and I actually agree with Sigi that Jaqua isn’t a true target man. So, and I know I’m biased, I think they should do what Spurs did a while ago and run a 4-3-3 with Jaqua just behind the two forwards. Jaqua’s actually not bad as a distributor – not long passes, but using his strength to hold off a defender or redirect a ball to another player. He’s simply not fast enough to be a true forward, so use him the way Spurs used Robbie Keane a few years ago. Not only that, but Sounders have never gotten anything from the MF outside of Ljungberg, Alonso, Le Toux and Zakuani. Since Le Toux generally doesn’t start, that means (generally) Evans or Vagenas kind of hustling around to little effect (Evans winner v. Dallas notwithstanding).
The problem with this plan is that the Sounders don’t appear to have 2 forwards on their roster. Montero’s great, but who else would play up top? Zakuani? I’ve actually never seen a scorer with so little feel for goal, and on the wing he can run at slower defenders, which is what he’s good at. Nyassi? Eh, poor man’s Zakuani. Le Toux? They tried that earlier and it was a disaster. The only other answer is Levesque, which, I know he’s been our talisman recently, but…. really? I guess it’d be an interesting experiment, but the 2nd leg of the semis may not be the time for experiments.

by marc w on Oct 30, 2009 9:24 AM PDT reply actions   0 recs

I would actually play Jaqua as the further man upfield but still shy of a true centre forward

Basically you launch balls up to him, he nods them down for Montero to surge onto.

4-1-3-1-1 but with [defence]-Alonso-Le Toux, Ljundberg, Zakuani, Montero, Jaqua

by Graham on Oct 30, 2009 9:27 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

And good gob, Zakuani, try playing inside your man sometimes

They’re playing you half turned to the outside because YOU NEVER GO ANY OTHER DIRECTION. Cut inside and the defence is toast

by Graham on Oct 30, 2009 9:28 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

In maybe three years, Zakuani will be good.

For now, not so much. He needs a shot and the ability to go right. Oh, and a decent ability to cross the ball. If he fails at the 3rd, he could become a decent forward. But right now, he’s just a fast guy.

by marc w on Oct 30, 2009 10:03 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Yeah. Makes me wonder what his vaunted Arsenal training amounted to.

But, to be less cynical for a moment, I think he’ll get there. You have the raw materials of a great player, and the experience he got this year has to be incredibly valuable. He apparently led the NCAA in goals solely by being fast; he’s now learning an entirely new set of skills, and he isn’t atrocious.

by marc w on Oct 30, 2009 10:11 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

I also want Nyassi to be good too

The idea of having those two learn shots and playing on the outside of a 4-3-3 sounds like a good time

by Graham on Oct 30, 2009 10:16 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Yeah - I loved Nyassi (from what little I saw of him) early in the year

but as the season wore on, he pretty clearly is a poor man’s Zakuani. But hey, he actually does cut inside from time to time. And he’s got a twin brother who does log serious minutes for another MLS team. I think the problem is that he can be pushed off the ball by a strong breeze, and in a league that relies more on strength than skill, that’s a problem.

by marc w on Oct 30, 2009 10:21 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

I don't think he's mentally capable of it

Everyone can be a vicious little bastard if they want

by Graham on Oct 30, 2009 10:49 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Montero's actually wiry strong, and holds off defenders well

He can be a vicious little bastard at times, but he’s not as little as Nyassi. That would require Sana to be extra vicious. He can be as nasty, brutish and short as he can be, but I don’t think he’ll be able to be as good at holding off defenders as Montero.

Now, if he can learn to be Aaron Lennon/Theo Walcott, that’s something.

by marc w on Oct 30, 2009 11:18 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Right, I don't think he'll be as good as it as Montero is

I just think that tapping into that would at least make him annoying to deal, which is really all he needs with the speed he has

by Graham on Oct 30, 2009 11:25 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

No but it's in my bedside pile of books

Jonathan Wilson is a really good football writer, I love his Guardian stuff.

Nice Guys Finish Third - My semantics are a waste of time.

by pdb on Oct 30, 2009 10:22 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Some photos....

This looks painful:

Clearance by El Presidente

by marc w on Nov 2, 2009 9:10 AM PST reply actions   0 recs

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