On Who Ought To Win
Driving back from lunch today, I got to considering what I wanted to write about. The offseason's weird; despite so many people saying to me "the season's over, what do you have to discuss?" there's always a ton of material, a ton of different subjects worth a close look. It's just that sometimes I don't feel like writing about the ideas that come to mind.
Today, I haven't really been in the mood to talk about the Mariners. Fortunately, a lot of people are still focused on the playoffs. "The World Series is coming up," I thought to myself in the car. "That's kind of a big deal." So I switched gears and started mulling over different topics related to the World Series. One of those topics, naturally, was rooting interest. Who are people going to root for? I should post a poll!
You might have noticed that I didn't post a poll. For one thing, Christ, enough with the polls. And for another, what would be the point? If I put up a poll that said "Phillies or Yankees?" 95% of you would say Phillies and 85% of you would leave a comment about how you can't remember the last time you were so bored by a World Series matchup. I shot down the poll idea. It was a stupid idea.
What it did do, however, was make me ask myself who I'm rooting for. And though I chose the Phillies, I didn't choose them because they're playing the Yankees; I chose them because - according to my brain - "Raul deserves a title."
That surprised me. I wasn't expecting that kind of reaction. I don't know how in touch the rest of you are with your brains, but me, I don't know how I feel about something unless I ask myself about it, and it was only when I asked myself about the World Series that I realized what I think about it. I want the Phillies to win. Because it turns out I think Raul Ibanez deserves to win a championship.
It's a silly sentiment, but not an unusual one. People wanted to see Peyton Manning win a title because they thought he deserved to win. We wanted the Mariners to surround Edgar with a championship team because we thought he deserved to win. Ray Bourque winning a Cup with Colorado was a huge, huge deal because people had spent so long going on about how badly he deserved to win. Every year in every sport as the playoffs approach, you'll hear fans and writers talk about how they hope Team X can pull it out, because Player Y deserves to win it all.
Why do so many of us think this way about certain players? That became my thought experiment for the afternoon.
Boiled down, I think it's a matter of conditions. In that, there are a handful of conditions a player should meet if he is to be thought of as a player who deserves to win a title. This rather obviously isn't falsifiable, since there's no master list out there of players people thought deserved to win, but then I don't intend to present it as such. This is just a theory thought up while I wasn't doing any work.
The first condition is that the player has to be a veteran. Often, but not always, one of at least ten years. There's no one out there saying "man, that Felix really needs a ring." When Dustin Pedroia got his, there wasn't any sentiment of "well FINALLY." We see veterans as being more deserving, presumably because they've been doing their job for so long that they've poured a lot of themselves into it. They've fought. They've been through the wars, so to speak. Rookies and young guys don't deserve anything. No one deserves immediate success. Players should have to earn it, and here in America, there's no way of earning anything quite like punching your time card day after day and year after year. It's also noting that "_ deserves to win" generally comes with an unwritten qualifer of "before he retires," and young guys are seen as having all the time in the world. Veterans are in a race against their calendars.
The second condition is that the player has to be perceived as a guy who really cares. And caring, in this case, usually means "demonstrates effort." Players who deserve a championship are players who really want a championship and do everything in their power to get one. Players who train hard in the offseason. Players who seem to leave everything on the field. Players who take losses hard, players who're never satisfied and who put their team above themselves. All the standard "gamer" cliches, really. Raul Mondesi was pretty good. Derek Bell had his years. Gary Sheffield has been awesome. But I've never met anyone who thought any of those players were deserving of a championship, because - whether right or wrong - they've conveyed the impression that they're in it for themselves. Fans don't really take kindly to selfishness. Fans want to root for a guy who cares as much about a team as they do.
The third condition is that the player has to be good. Or at least have a history of being good at some point or another (bonus if he is/was good for your team). Joe McEwing probably worked his ass off, but effort isn't enough. You can't swing a dead cat without hitting a shitty player who tries really hard. More than a guy who maximizes a lousy skillset, fans want to get behind a guy who maximizes a good skillset, or a great one. We watch sports to be amazed by players doing extraordinary things. The players who do a lot of them - these are the players we're more likely to see as deserving. There are players with exceptional dedication and there are players with exceptional talent, but the ones we want most to see win are the ones in possession of both. Because there are few things with which we identify more closely than the drive to defy probability and become the best.
The fourth and final condition is that the player has to be seen as a good person. It sounds kind of stupid, but there's a reason why stuff like The Alex Rodriguez/stripper story gets in the news, and while it's preposterously naive to expect the world's best athletes to be the world's best people, that's what a lot of fans want, and so they want to reward the guys that meet their standards. Now, I don't apply this condition to the extent that a lot of other people do. I think A-Rod deserves to win, and I thought Barry Bonds deserved to win. I know a lot of you are the same way. But that's my rational mind talking, and I know that, perhaps irrationally, it would warm my heart more to see Raul (or Jamie Moyer a year ago) get a ring than to see A-Rod or Bonds do the same. And ten years from now you won't see me feeling sorry for Elijah Dukes. Fans are horrible judges of athlete character, for reasons both in and out of their control, but there's nothing people enjoy more than passing judgment, and if a player is judged to be a good or seedy individual, that will in large part determine whether he's seen as a sympathetic character should he age without a championship. Even in an environment as unjust as professional sports, people still want to see the triumph of decency.
Those are the four. If a player is deemed as being deserving of a championship, he's probably considered:
(1) a veteran
(2) a hard worker
(3) a good player
(4) a good person
I don't know that a player is automatically disqualified if he fails to meet one of the conditions. As I said, this is a theory, not a scientific hypothesis. I think Ichiro deserves to win a championship, and I don't know shit about who he is as a person. What I think would be an automatic disqualification is if a player were the opposite of one of those conditions; young, lazy, bad, or nefarious, or what have you. So perhaps these are more guidelines than conditions, in that you'll be fine if you kind of go along with them, but if you don't go along with them at all, you're out of luck.
Of course, there's a whole other question here of whether any player actually deserves to win a championship in the first place. I don't know the answer to that. On the one hand, a championship isn't a right. Nowhere in any rulebook does it say that the title is to be awarded to the team with the best player or the best person. But on the other, the difference between championships and brownie points is that championships are won every season, and if you already know that some collection of players is going to take one once a year, then you're left wondering whether a brief postseason tournament is the best measure of which players are deserving of the glory and which players are not. Francisco Rodriguez pitched lights-out for five weeks. Edgar Martinez hit like a madman for 15 years while contributing more to charity out of the public eye than any of his teammates. Did Edgar Martinez deserve a championship? Did Francisco Rodriguez?
I don't know. The trouble with this sort of philosophy is that you're left with more questions than you started with. The only thing I'm certain of now is the same thing I was certain of this afternoon: I'm gonna root for the Phillies. Because Raul Ibanez deserves a God damn ring.
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124 comments
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Comments
Yes.
I like Raul. I have always liked Raul, regardless of his defensive foibles, because he seems like a standup guy, and he’s good with a bat. I love that he’s gotten this chance. Good on him, hope that they can make it happen again this year.
"Let this big fucker come in and walk the world here." - Dave Niehaus on JJ Putz
by section331 on Oct 26, 2009 11:03 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
I don't think I ever witnessed that
Or at least, cannot immediately recall an incident….
"Let this big fucker come in and walk the world here." - Dave Niehaus on JJ Putz
by section331 on Oct 27, 2009 6:36 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
He seems to specialize in a dry, dead-pan approach
seen occasionally in interviews and the commercial outtakes…
by msb on Oct 27, 2009 6:44 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
OK, now I think I know what you're talking about
And yes, for that, WIN!
"Let this big fucker come in and walk the world here." - Dave Niehaus on JJ Putz
by section331 on Oct 27, 2009 7:01 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
This is something I'm obsessed with.
I really don’t know why. I guess its because my teams so rarely win championships that I need to have a rooting interest in all the sports.
I also seem to have a crazy anti-deserving streak in my nature as well. I hoped and prayed that Peyton didn’t ever win a championship and I’d give my left nut to strip Favre of his. Seriously.
I was so happy in 01 win RJ won a ring. Honestly, I got more joy out of that than 116.
That said, Chase Fucking Utley getting another ring before Arod pisses me off to no end… but Jeter… I can’t decide who to root against.
by hcoguy on Oct 26, 2009 11:21 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
What's wrong with Chase Utley?
I’ve always liked him as a player personally.
by OlSalty on Oct 26, 2009 11:25 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Chase Utley would be my favorite player in the world if he were on our side
by Poochie on Oct 26, 2009 11:27 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
But he has terrible hair, so I can understand why people may hate him.
by Teej on Oct 27, 2009 12:13 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
That doesn't explain why nobody hates Tim Lincecum, however...
"Let this big fucker come in and walk the world here." - Dave Niehaus on JJ Putz
by section331 on Oct 27, 2009 6:37 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I started hating him this year, for what it's worth.
by Teej on Oct 27, 2009 7:59 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yes, but is it because of his HAIR?
"Let this big fucker come in and walk the world here." - Dave Niehaus on JJ Putz
by section331 on Oct 27, 2009 11:04 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Sweet! Extra credit for you!
"Let this big fucker come in and walk the world here." - Dave Niehaus on JJ Putz
by section331 on Oct 28, 2009 8:53 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Having Chase Utley on our team would absolutely tear me in two
on the one hand, he’s the best player from UCLA currently in the majors.
On the other hand, he plays the same position as Jose Lopez.
by seattlebruin on Oct 27, 2009 9:19 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Chase Utley plays 1B?
When did this happen?
by Kermit. on Oct 27, 2009 10:00 AM PDT up reply actions 3 recs
Its the irrational part of my brain working.
I know he is criminally underrated in some circles and a player with skills at a position I covet, yet I can’t bring myself to root for him and find myself actively rooting against him in most circumstances.
by hcoguy on Oct 26, 2009 11:57 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
He went to ucla for starters
[DELETED ZOMG NO POLITICS]
by bluemax on Oct 27, 2009 11:32 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
If anything Favre needs more championships, not less
by Poochie on Oct 26, 2009 11:29 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
The Nolan Ryan of football.
Which I could live with if he wasn’t drooled on by every announcer and commentator.
by hcoguy on Oct 26, 2009 11:58 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
What's wrong with Peyton Manning?
by BrettJMiller on Oct 27, 2009 12:12 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
See above.
Its the irrational part of my brain working. I know he is criminally underrated in some circles and a player with skills at a position I covet, yet I can’t bring myself to root for him and find myself actively rooting against him in most circumstances.
It may have something to do with his crazy amount of commercials.
by hcoguy on Oct 27, 2009 12:30 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I actually find him genuinely funny
also there’s something endearing about the fact that the guy goes to his own brother’s games when he can.
[DELETED ZOMG NO POLITICS]
by bluemax on Oct 27, 2009 11:34 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
"If I put up a poll that said "Phillies or Yankees?" 95% of you would say Phillies"
I’m proud to be a Five Percenter.
by Teej on Oct 26, 2009 11:34 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
I'm a five percenter too!
by Kirkharbaugh on Oct 27, 2009 12:00 AM PDT via mobile up reply actions 0 recs
I agree.
I figured that would be my justification for cheering for the Phillies. I mean, the guy would’ve been a stellar DH for us, but unfortunately he was blocked by a pile of poo.
2009 Safeco Field Record: 6-0 ; Overall Safeco Field Record: 10-4
by Fin on Oct 26, 2009 11:44 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Like last year, this is a real win-win situation for me in the series.
I’m personally pulling for the Yankees because I want A-Rod to get his ring really badly, mostly due to arguments with people who believe A-Rod is a curse, and whatever team he is on will never win it all. It’s an argument I try to avoid, but I know if the Phillies win, I’ll never hear the end of how A-Rod is this mystical curse that doesn’t allow the other 24 guys in his uniform to win it all. Plus, I like Alex. Yeah, the Boeing letter was a douchey thing, but honestly he seems like a guy who just wants to be loved by everyone who has terrible social skills and always says the wrong thing.
Yeah, he cheated on his wife. I wouldn’t do it, but most baseball players do. My mom knew someone who slept with Don Mattingly when he was very much married. It’s just so much easier for the media to hear about these things now. I like Alex and want him to win it all. Other Yankees, such as Nick Swisher, Phil Hughes, and CC Sabathia are guys that may not fit the criteria, but I like them as players, so I would like to see win it all as well. Pettitte and Rivera are easy to root for as well, despite their many rings.
That said, I like Raul too, and believe he deserves to get his ring. I like many Phillies players a lot. Jayson Werth, Cliff Lee, Chase Utley, Jimmy Rollins, Shane Victorino, Cole Hamels, and even the broken Brad Lidge to me are players I can easily root for. The thing is, Cliff Lee and Raul are the only Phillies of that list that don’t have a ring. Personally, I like A-Rod better than both of them. Also, I want to see the Mariners get to hold the trophy up before more jewelry is made for Miguel Cairo and Greg Dobbs.
Basically, I can be happy with either outcome, but if I had to choose, I’d choose the Yankees so Alex can get his ring and get out of his choker reputation forever. The good press is already annoying, but I think with all the bad press he’s gotten in his career, it’s about damn time people start giving him the respect he deserves for being one of the top five players in the whole god damn game.
by BrettJMiller on Oct 27, 2009 12:11 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs
I don't know how to tell you this, so I'll just say it.
Don Mattingly is your father.
by abender20 on Oct 27, 2009 7:11 AM PDT up reply actions 5 recs
This kind of goes along with 2 and 4 of your scale, but
I would add: grateful. It is easier for me to root for guys with exceptional ability that are grateful for the opportunities that ability has created. I like to see players that are grateful to be making a fortune playing a game.
Only dull people are brilliant at breakfast.
by noontide on Oct 27, 2009 12:16 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs
I am in the camp of rooting against A-Rod.
At the same time, though, I don’t know why I don’t want Raul to win a championship. I think it must be tied to his comments about how we view his defensive skillset. But it is difficult to hate him for saying those things because he leaves everything he has on the field despite the defensive blunders. It’s just something that has irked me the wrong way, which is unfortunate considering what a good guy and player he is.
So I am going to root for Jimmy Rollins. He had a tough year, but has been a monster in the playoffs. He also might be the nicest guy not named Curtis Granderson in the league.
Go Phillies!
by Wilder. on Oct 27, 2009 12:22 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Seconded on liking Rollins.
I really like most of the Phillies team, while the only Yankees I like are Swisher, A-Rod, and Rivera. Go Phils!
by stupidquestions on Oct 27, 2009 12:26 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I find him really to be an exception for me, not the rule.
I badly wanted Bonds to get a ring in ‘02, even though every person with any sense knew he was on steroids at the time. Why? Because throughout the ’90’s, Bonds was one of the greatest players ever. And not only did he get overlooked because of McGwire, Sosa, and Griffey (although the last one is obviously acceptable), but he wasn’t even considered for the All-Century team. I won’t lie, I felt bad for him even though he was portrayed as an asshole. And I know this second part has no rational merit whatsoever, but he could have just as easily left San Francisco and gone to New York to sell out for his ring. He didn’t do that, because from what I gathered, he had an enormous amount of pride in wearing the same jersey Willie Mays did. Whenever you don’t sell out to go to the Yankees, that’s a huge, huge deal to me. Fuck the Yankees.
But A-Rod did all of this. He led the Mariners on to believe he wanted to return, left by way of signing a quarter-billion dollar deal that he had to have known would sink the current franchise he signed with, bashed Seattle management on the way out, and went to the Yankees and gushed about how much of an honor it was to play for such a scumbag organization in front of such scumbag people. Any time an athlete says “You guys are the greatest fans in the world!”, it’s meant to be taken as a compliment to those fans. When a Yankee says that to the New York crowd, he’s lying through his teeth and ass-kissing so he doesn’t get bent over in the Times. New York isn’t a ‘difficult’ place to play – it’s a bad place to play. Pressure is good, but having fans that feel like they’re entitled to everything, every single year, is a complete and utter joke. A-Rod’s side shit is just another reason to hate him (and the pictures of him kissing the mirror is just ammunition to love the hatred).
So, yeah. I hope he never gets a championship and the fans tear him limb from limb and continue to inexplicably christen and defend Captain Clutch. You know why? Because Alex Rodriguez deserves those morons.
by cwel87 on Oct 27, 2009 8:13 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
"left by way of signing a quarter-billion dollar deal that he had to have known would sink the current franchise he signed with"
GOD
by Graham on Oct 27, 2009 10:20 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
A-Rod had nothing to do with the Rangers being bad.
You are wrong for thinking so. Provably, 100%, wrong.
by Matthew on Oct 27, 2009 10:42 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'm guessing a man of such convictions cares not for pesky old facts
Nice Guys Finish Third - My semantics are a waste of time.
by pdb on Oct 27, 2009 10:43 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'm aware of the value Rodriguez brought to the Rangers, and that he was well worth his contract fiscally
I misspoke in that sentence, and I really don’t have a defense for that particular point. But that singular incorrect point really doesn’t correlate at all to what I was trying to say.
I still hate Alex Rodriguez, because there is nothing more abhorrent then a deceitful, hypocritical moron who thinks he’s savvy and cunning enough to manipulate the media (and the New York media, no less, which feeds off of tabloids) into believing he’s really a good guy, and believes he will get away with it.
Bonds was never a good person either, but he didn’t try to hide it, and he didn’t assume he could outsmart the world by putting on a smile and acting like he cared about other people. Fuck Alex Rodriguez, and fuck the Yankees.
by cwel87 on Oct 27, 2009 11:31 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
So being a total prick is worse than being smarmy?
by acblue on Oct 27, 2009 6:30 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
At least if you're a total prick
It’s out in the open….but I’m just playing devil’s advocate, I don’t like either of them.
"Let this big fucker come in and walk the world here." - Dave Niehaus on JJ Putz
by section331 on Oct 27, 2009 6:39 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I really dislike the fact that our society views being a giant, unapologetic cockmongler as somehow more noble than making an attempt to be civil.
by acblue on Oct 27, 2009 6:44 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I never said noble
I just said it was out in the open. I’d simply rather know that someone was an asshole so I could avoid them, rather than living under the assumption that someone gave a shit when they didn’t.
"Let this big fucker come in and walk the world here." - Dave Niehaus on JJ Putz
by section331 on Oct 27, 2009 7:02 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
It's the hypocracy, and the backstabbing in society in general that does it
If you’re dealing with a person like Bonds, you take him as he is presented – you can avoid him and know what you’re avoiding. With Rodriguez, it’s a matter of someone being openly disingenuous.
I’d rather deal with someone who isn’t trying to bullshit me and failing miserably over someone who is every day of the week.
by cwel87 on Oct 27, 2009 7:09 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
if you're never going to meet the person
what do you care?
Nice Guys Finish Third - My semantics are a waste of time.
by pdb on Oct 27, 2009 9:39 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
See, then you have another qualification:
The dickish nature of a fanbase.
You see, more than once, I have read comments from fans of other teams who say that “soanso” good Mariner player deserves a championship. They don’t do this because “soanso” good Mariner player is any of the four qualifications, they just use it as an argument for us to give up our “soanso” good Mariner player to them. To these people, it isn’t about the player, it’s about their team winning a championship. Sometimes for the 27th time. In the end, it’s not about the player at all, it’s about the selfish nature of dickish fans. “You should trade Ichiro to New York because he deserves a championship and your shitty team is holding him back!”. That’s it. That’s the rationale. Give us your best player “because”.
Now, I have to temper my disdain because I think all the other 29 teams best players deserve championships and should come play for us, forming a Super Team of Awesome and Joy. It’s for them, you see. Them.
Fans are typically idiots.
by The Typical Idiot Fan on Oct 27, 2009 3:32 AM PDT reply actions 1 recs
While Seattle sports fans aren't particularly dickish
Every other SBN blog is going to root against the Mariners if we get to the world series because while generic Seattle fans aren’t dickish, we here at Lookout Landing wrote the book on being a dick.
Fun Fact: You buy the book as a softcover, but it becomes a hardcover every time Ichiro gets an infield hit.
...and now I'm here
by CapSea on Oct 27, 2009 3:39 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
On the cover, Queen II style, are Jeff, Graham, Matthew, and Scrappy.
Fans are typically idiots.
by The Typical Idiot Fan on Oct 27, 2009 3:49 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
The problem is we're potrayed as the 'nerds who don't actually like sports' and the condescending jerks who think they know it all
We have more information at our disposal then the average fanbase because the prominent Seattle blogosphere writers (J/M/G/Dave/DMZ) consistently write about statistics and measurements (WAR, FIP, tRA, UZR, wOBA, BABIP, etc.) that most people haven’t even heard of.
And when you start debating with measurements people have never heard of, they either believe you are a nerd who spends his time more interested in the numbers then the sport itself, or you are coming off as a know-it-all, and the obvious reaction to this is to become defensive.
Of course…maybe it has a little to do with just being a dick. But honestly, that usually occurs when an M’s fan presents their usual information and is countered with the most stereotypical responses available. Or, at least, that’s me.
by cwel87 on Oct 27, 2009 8:23 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I think I actually like the Yankees fans I know
more than the Phillies fans I know.
[DELETED ZOMG NO POLITICS]
by bluemax on Oct 27, 2009 11:35 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I want the Phillies to win a seven game nailbiter of a series
in which A-Rod, were he on the winning team, would be named MVP because he played so well.
Nice Guys Finish Third - My semantics are a waste of time.
by pdb on Oct 27, 2009 6:55 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs
I want A-Rod to hit a homerun every other PA and the Yankees to still lose and A-Rod wins World Series MVP.
by lailaihei on Oct 27, 2009 12:43 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah
that sounds good. I’ll go with that.
Fuck Anaheim.
by Professor Hubert J. Farnsworth on Oct 27, 2009 3:01 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
The Phillies don't deserve a ring because they signed Raul Ibanez to a $30M deal to play left field for them
by Graham on Oct 27, 2009 7:05 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Every team has stupid contracts
by Jeff Sullivan on Oct 27, 2009 8:08 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I had ESPN on the other day and it made me really sad
they said that Rodriguez had the second largest active number of (regular season) games played without reaching a world series with 2,166.
The largest such active streak? Ken Griffey, Jr.
Batted .393/.614/.464 for 2009 Diablos, #5 in OBP for PSSBL Rocky Division.
by Two Rs and Two Ls on Oct 27, 2009 7:15 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs
(Mike Sweeney has 1,398)
Batted .393/.614/.464 for 2009 Diablos, #5 in OBP for PSSBL Rocky Division.
by Two Rs and Two Ls on Oct 27, 2009 7:16 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I can't root for the Yankees.
For whatever reason, I always feel like their wins are ill-gotten gains. Part of it is the nature of their fans like was mentioned above. A fanbase feeling entitled to a WS championship disgusts me, and I therefore would be happy if they never won anything ever again. I can’t stand the press given to their shortstop for things he doesn’t even do. It bothers me that they outbid the rest of the league for the best available player(s) nearly every offseason.
Rooting for the Yankees is like rooting for erosion.
by abender20 on Oct 27, 2009 7:20 AM PDT reply actions 2 recs
DON MATTINGLY WAS THE ONLY YANKEE THAT NEVER GOT TO WIN A WORLD SERIES ITS A TRAGEDY
by Poochie on Oct 27, 2009 10:44 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
But because of erosion hillside homes become beachfront property!
How can that be a bad thing? BEACHFRONT!
Nice Guys Finish Third - My semantics are a waste of time.
by pdb on Oct 27, 2009 10:45 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Raul proved many of us wrong ....
I was among the many who slammed the Mariners for signing Raul. It appeared at the time that the Mariners had signed up for the decline years of a guy with Kaufman-field inflated numbers and a guy whom a LOOGY could easily neutralize in key situations. The Mariners looked to have hitched themselves to a guy who was going to provide close to a league average bat while playing bad defense.
Raul went out and proved us all wrong. The defense was as expected, but he proved to be a solid hitter, he reduced his L-R splits, and he remained very productive overall through the years of the contract.
I give him great credit for proving many of us wrong. I like my crow fricasseed.
by Steve Nelson on Oct 27, 2009 7:56 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Wait so you're telling me the Angels don't get to play in the World Series this year?
Am I missing something? That doesn’t seem fair. Adenhart will be disappointed.
angels fan in seattle
by Eyebrows on Oct 27, 2009 7:59 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Adenhart won't be anything but dead
by Jeff Sullivan on Oct 27, 2009 8:08 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
There's always backup dancer zombie in the Michael Jackson movie.
Fans are typically idiots.
by The Typical Idiot Fan on Oct 27, 2009 4:14 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
The fact that the Phillies won last year makes me want to root for the Yankees
by Fogel on Oct 27, 2009 9:07 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Rec'd for "you can't swing a dead cat without hitting a shitty player who tries really hard."
I had to ask myself the same question, Jeff. (Jeff. That’s such a cool name. Pimps are named Jeff.)
Who will I root for in this year’s World Series?
On one side, I have the Yankees, a team I’ve despised since God knows when. I’ve despised them for their approach to roster building, for their douchey fans, and because of the insane amount of championships they’ve won and, Goddamnit, they don’t need another. I honestly can’t find one positive about the Yankees that would cause me to root for them. Not even Alex Rodriguez. If anything, I want them to lose this World Series because of the obscene amount of money they spent on their roster last off-season. I want the Steinbrenner Conglomerate to see their team fail so I can watch a YouTube video of their heads exploding.
On the other side are Philadelphia Phillies. For some reason, I thought their fans to be very whiny last year, somewhat akin to Cubs fans. “Our city deserves this,” they’d all say. You are entitled to nothing, Philadelphia. You’ve had your fair share of championships. Then again, rooting for the Phillies isn’t necessarily rooting for the city of Philadelphia. I can choose to root for players, like Raul, and Moyer, and Utley. And Jayson Werth, on who I have a huge man-crush.
So I think I’m in the Phillies’ camp. But not in the “GO PHILLIES!” sense, but in the “GO RAUL AND MOYER AND UTLEY AND WERTH!” and “FUCK THE YANKEES!” sense.
Say it with me: Washington Capitals. Capitals.
Preserved In All His Greatness - R.I.P. The Reignman 1989 to 1997
by JLProck on Oct 27, 2009 9:16 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs
I just want to know where the whole "swing a dead cat" phrase came from.
I have this image of someone, somewhere, who wanted really badly to come up with a turn of phrase. All his life he struggled with making it sound catchy but poignant. I see a flash of inspiration as he is pelted upside the head with a dead cat, thrown by some raging psycho who was choking the local felines, declaring them witches or something, and pretending he was a pro wrestler. The psycho cat strangler looks up and says “another one… can’t swing one of these here dead cats around without hittin’ two of ya’s”.
Naturally this long time struggling would-be phrase maker had to murder this person. Not to keep the new found phrase to himself, mind you, but to protect the cats.
Fans are typically idiots.
by The Typical Idiot Fan on Oct 27, 2009 4:20 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Brewer's Dictionary of Phrase and Fable:
“there are various suggested origins of the phrase. Swinging cats by their tails as a mark for sportsmen was once a popular amusement. There were several variants of the diversion – see “hang me in a bottle” and “to fight like Kilkenny cats”. Cat was an abbreviation for Cat-o’-nine-tails and in view of the restricted space in the old sailing ships where the cat was administered, it is most likely derived from swinging this particular kind of cat. Cat is also an old Scottish word for rogue, and if the derivation is from this, the “swing” is that of the condemned rogue hanging from the gallows."
by msb on Oct 27, 2009 6:49 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
That last bit seems most likely...
"Let this big fucker come in and walk the world here." - Dave Niehaus on JJ Putz
by section331 on Oct 27, 2009 7:03 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Raul Ibanez caused me lots of mental anguish.
by Matthew on Oct 27, 2009 9:54 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs
For me it was more the team that used him and how the team used him
I was just already mad enough at them
by Jeff Sullivan on Oct 27, 2009 9:55 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
His smug non-caring look after really shitty plays flies in the face of your" tries really hard" motif.
Also, it made me hate him so much.
by Matthew on Oct 27, 2009 9:56 AM PDT up reply actions 2 recs
He could have popped off a Yuni-esque happy go lucky shamefaced grin like a puppy that just shit on the floor.
Now there was a face that made me want to rub it in his mistake.
by Kermit. on Oct 27, 2009 10:09 AM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
The Glove
Gary Payton.
Veteran, Hard Working, Great Player, Solid Person.
When he went to play for the Lakers with Malone, he did not deserve to win a championship, because it felt like he was selling out to win a title. Two years later in his 16th season, I was overcome with joy when he raised the trophy in Miami. Either way, as far as I’m concerned now the NBA can go fuck itself but I love GP.
by cmccrack206 on Oct 27, 2009 10:32 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Gary Payton was a solid person?
[DELETED ZOMG NO POLITICS]
by bluemax on Oct 27, 2009 11:36 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I would be happy if Ibanez won
just for all the times during the Bavasi years after tough losses he had to suffer through the post-game interview because no one else would and answer dumb question after obvious question.
by G_ on Oct 27, 2009 10:40 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs
My only problem with Raul winning will be the people that insist the M's should have kept him.
There is a percentage of commenters at other blogs/news sites that still laminate about Ibanez and how letting him walk was a horrible mistake.
Other than that nonsense, I am rooting for the Phillies.
I would root for A-Rod to win, because even without the junk that goes with him, he is one of the best players to ever play the game. A-Rod getting a ring would be the only good thing about a Yankees win.
by mark sobba on Oct 27, 2009 11:36 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs
How does Raul winning have anything to do with people wishing he were still here?
Raul wouldn’t have won here.
by Jeff Sullivan on Oct 27, 2009 12:37 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
OH, next you'll be telling us that he wouldn't have hit 34HR & 93 RBIs here, and made the team a winner.
by msb on Oct 27, 2009 1:01 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
That would've required the Mariners to score 93 runs.
Batted .393/.614/.464 for 2009 Diablos, #5 in OBP for PSSBL Rocky Division.
by Two Rs and Two Ls on Oct 27, 2009 1:17 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Laminate Properly
If you Laminate Raul properly, he should not be able to walk afterwards
by lokiforever on Oct 27, 2009 2:30 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

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