Keith Law isn't sure what to do with Franklin Gutierrez. Maybe platoon him?
In his latest chat, Keith Law got asked if he thought Franklin had room left to progress, and where he ranked among CFs. Klaw writes back "In a perfect world, the Mariners would platoon him with another plus-glove CF who bats left-handed, but how many teams have two plus-glove CFs and are willing to carry both?"
Soooo... "in a perfect world", the Mariners should bench a 4-5 win, 26 year old player for 2/3 of their games. Even if you did have a lefty CF, that would still be a terrible use of resources . It'd really endear the players to the team too. I wouldn't have expected this kind of bizarre focus on platoon splits coming from this source.
Edit: My lustful thoughts towards Guti may have led to an exaggerated estimation of his true talent. I think the point still stands though.
about 1 month ago
Manzanillos Cup
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Not to mention
we do have two plus-glove center fielders. Ichiro and Langerhans. Obviously you can’t platoon Ichiro but you could get Gutz off the field versus righties. Also I’m not sure I would trust Saunders to play center at this point in his career but he could offer another option and those are just the ones we are carrying on the active roster.
by sunshinem'sfan on Oct 1, 2009 10:28 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
In a perfect world, Gutz plays naked and hits 4 home runs a game with his penis.
...and now I'm here
by Librocrat on Oct 1, 2009 11:29 PM PDT reply actions 17 recs
I see your schwartz is as big as mine.
Wherever I go, that's where I am.
by noontide on Oct 1, 2009 11:51 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I love this site
Yes, we have a coupon.
by Crystal for DH on Oct 4, 2009 10:59 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I think after a while that would hurt his chances of fathering children.
And I don’t even want to think about broken-bat singles . . .
by The Ancient Mariner on Oct 7, 2009 9:04 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Gay men can't make babies.
...and now I'm here
by Librocrat on Oct 7, 2009 2:30 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I suppose
In a perfect world you would platoon plus gloves at every position and have an entire rotation and bullpen of ambidextrous pitchers who never get hurt.
by hcoguy on Oct 1, 2009 11:58 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Well, strictly speaking Guti's not really a 5 win player unless he starts hitting more.
He’s great and all, but three of his ‘wins’ this year are coming from a monster fielding season. I’d be more comfortable calling him a 3-3.5 win player, which.. yeah you don’t need to platoon him really. That’s just not a great use of resources.
De Gutibus non disputandum est
by Bearskin Rugburn on Oct 2, 2009 8:01 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs
This seems more correct.
Seems like a likely projection might be +10 UZR, a league average bat and a healthy season – which would put him at a little over 3.0 wins. He’s such an outlier on defense, and with less than three seasons of playing time – that UZR would get regressed pretty heavily.
by Manzanillos Cup on Oct 2, 2009 11:17 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I hope he puts up another +20 UZR next year because I am tired of being told he isn't this good.
by Sec 108 on Oct 2, 2009 11:35 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'd say 10-20 is a reasonable range for him
he’s good, sure, but as many people have pointed out, 27 is simply off the charts. It’s like a 60 HR season. They happen, but you’d be presumptuous to expect another.
De Gutibus non disputandum est
by Bearskin Rugburn on Oct 2, 2009 12:11 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I think he is 15-25 myself and my eyes have proven to be a good predictor of UZR in the past.
by Sec 108 on Oct 2, 2009 12:12 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Eeeeh
I’d say 12.5-22.5 is more in line with league norms and past performance
De Gutibus non disputandum est
by Bearskin Rugburn on Oct 2, 2009 12:14 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yu drive a hard bargain
14-24?
De Gutibus non disputandum est
by Bearskin Rugburn on Oct 2, 2009 12:47 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
You
De Gutibus non disputandum est
by Bearskin Rugburn on Oct 2, 2009 12:47 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Obviously we will see over the next couple of years how close I am or not.
He is just so smooth that people are afraid to think he may be playing near his true talent level. We shall see, but the dude is special in the same way Cameron was to my eyes and Cameron’s defense aged pretty damn well.
by Sec 108 on Oct 2, 2009 12:49 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
It was only a nitpick.
Your overall point is still totally valid – it is awful roster management to platoon a 3+ win CF when your infield is so full of question marks.
De Gutibus non disputandum est
by Bearskin Rugburn on Oct 2, 2009 12:14 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Ehh, it's a chat. Smart people say regrettable things when they have 45 seconds to answer.
And it’s not a crazy response. UZR for one year isn’t a whole lot to lean on. Gutierrez is obviously awesome, but is he really a +27 center fielder? I doubt it. And he hit .260/.309/.368 against righties this year (with a fine — even high — BABIP). I’d consider platooning him, too, if I had an equally good outfielder on the bench who could hit righties. Given the “perfect world” qualifier, I’m not offended.
by Teej on Oct 2, 2009 11:03 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs
I lost a sentence.
I meant to mention that outfielders as good as Gutierrez who can hit righties don’t tend to hang around on benches, so we’re in a magical world when even discussing this.
by Teej on Oct 2, 2009 11:11 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah, I'm back tracking a little from thinking this is completely idiotic.
But really, how is this that much different from saying that you should platoon Ryan Braun, who also has a big platoon split? He isn’t that much better than Guti. It seems like a lot of people still have a kind of subconscious bias against players who’s value is in their defense.
by Manzanillos Cup on Oct 2, 2009 11:53 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Actually, it makes less sense
The more of a player’s value is tied up in his hitting, the more his platoon split matters for his value. Fielding doesn’t have a platoon split — Gutz’ glove is every bit as valuable when there’s a righty pitching for the other team as when they’re throwing a lefty. As such, it makes less sense to platoon him than it would to platoon Braun.
by The Ancient Mariner on Oct 7, 2009 9:10 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I dunno, it's a pretty dumb thing to say.
I mean, a LH CFer with ~comparable defense that hits RHPs as well as Gutierrez hits LHP is pretty much Grady Sizemore. Sizemore hits lefties a little better that Guti hits righties and hits righties a little better than Guti hits lefties, but there’s not that dramatic a difference. Like you said, someone good enough to justify platooning Gutierrez is not going to be the kind of guy that you can pick up for free, and if you have him in your system it’s a tremendous waste of resources to make him and Gutierrez both part time players.
When someone like Keith Law, who should know better, discounts Gutierrez’s value in such away, even with the ridiculously broad “in a perfect world” qualifier, it just underscores how truly undervalued defense still is.
by acblue on Oct 2, 2009 12:17 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Gutz is probably capable off hitting for more power against right handers anyway
Such wide splits are likely a fluke
by Poochie on Oct 2, 2009 12:20 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
And the thing is, even if you take those vs RH numbers at face value,
And regress down his UZR, he’s basically a league average CF with a RH on the hill. For cheap.
by Manzanillos Cup on Oct 2, 2009 12:37 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
That or he just isn't paying that much a ton of attention to Gutz.
It’s not quoted in the FanPost, but right before this comment Law wrote:
He’s practically a defensive replacement when there’s a RHP on the mound (for the other team, that is). But the glove is excellent.
It appears that he just checked his splits really quick. He knows Gutz is good, but I imagine he’s skeptical of him having a glove worth 2.5 wins. As am I.
As I mentioned in my second comment, it’s a moot exercise anyway, since the player we’re talking about platooning with Gutz doesn’t exist. It’s a weird comment (in this pretend world you could platoon any player), but I have a hard time getting worked up over comments made in a chat like that. If he were to write an article saying Gutz should be platooned, I’d have a different opinion.
by Teej on Oct 2, 2009 12:29 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'm certainly not going to flip out about it.
It is annoying to some extent though, because Law is a lot of people’s introduction to more intelligent baseball analysis and for him to whiff so badly, even in a chat, on a player that I love so much bugs me.
by acblue on Oct 2, 2009 12:39 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
In a perfect world Gutierrez would be showing his power against right handers as well as lefties
by Graham on Oct 2, 2009 12:34 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Funny seeing this.
It was actually me that posted that question. I get bored at work and love those chats. First time I have actually had a baseball one answered.
by Z0827 on Oct 2, 2009 5:08 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
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