Cat's Out of the Bag

by Matthew on Jan 4, 2009 3:37 PM PST in Great News Comment 121 comments

Baseball Prospectus Interview with Blengino

It's a big Q&A with Tony Blengino, who by the way, you can ask questions to directly, perhaps as follow-ups to answers presented above. There is lots of great stuff in the interview.

USS Mariner post on matter

DMZ pulls two exciting quotes out and mentions something that, if you are familar at all with the internet baseball community could be the most exciting news of all this winter. Remember how Bavasi "used" Mat Olkin as a consultant except that the Ms were so backwards that a 1996 edition of the Sears holiday catalog would have been just as useful? Well, Blengino has his own consultant, but since we have a very good inkling that this administration actually cares about statistical analysis, the identity of the consultant is pretty damn important.

That person is Tom Tango.

It's literally beyond wildest dreams. I never thought we'd have to create a "Great News" section for our stories here.

Graham's addendum, presented without comment:

So it really is vital that statistics and traditional scouting work hand in hand for an organization to succeed, and I think you see that with the most successful organizations in the game; they do both well.

-Tony Blengino

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Comments

BUCK FUTTER!

You may gain some yards on the ground, but eventually Lofa will end up biting you in the ass.

by Scruffy Lefty on Jan 4, 2009 9:25 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

I'm glad that comment became a bit of a runner.

by mark sobba on Jan 4, 2009 9:34 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

In the 8th?

by Omerta on Jan 5, 2009 5:36 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs

One of my favorite parts:

It’s a matter of the Mariners maybe not having had someone with my skill set in the front office before, and that kind of frees you up to look for more long-range, big-picture-type projects from a consultant, rather than asking them for basic statistical analysis that I can answer myself.

Bavasi: So hey, Mat, how many wins did we have last season?
Olkin: Do you mean overall or based on the true talent of the roster? Because I think if you look at the true talent, you’re going to find th
Bavasi: I mean overall.
Olkin: 88?
Bavasi: Good work. Thanks!

by Jeff on Jan 4, 2009 3:58 PM PST reply actions 1 recs

It's one thing to have Great News simply because where we are coming from.

And a 100 million times better to get something that would be Great News to every other team in baseball.

by Robert on Jan 4, 2009 4:00 PM PST reply actions 0 recs

Tango

Wow. And here I was a few years ago thinking the Red Sox pulled a coup by getting Bill James. Just wow. This is fantastically cool. A great start to 2009.

I know a lot of ya’ll personally away from LL. If one of you wants to hook a brother up with the transcript, I would be appreciative.

by katal on Jan 4, 2009 4:05 PM PST reply actions 0 recs

Samsies

by Robert on Jan 4, 2009 4:11 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Wasn't Tango working for the Red Sox?

by Edgar for Pres on Jan 4, 2009 4:30 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

I believe that was McCracken.

by mikev on Jan 7, 2009 3:41 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

James' projection system may be whack but good gravy is he an entertaining read.

by JI on Jan 4, 2009 5:09 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

My first question,

if I lived anywhere near Seattle and were going, would be along the lines of ‘how closely will tango be consulting you?’.

Great news indeed, and in an offseason full of it so far, so it’s not, you know, a contrast thing.

by Bearskin Rugburn on Jan 4, 2009 4:05 PM PST reply actions 0 recs

If you told me last year that Tom Tango would be a consultant for the Seattle Mariners

I would’ve kicked you right in the crotch for lying. And now I would feel guilty about having done so, because holy shit you were right.

by JLC on Jan 4, 2009 4:10 PM PST reply actions 0 recs

Good thing I didn't tell you last week then.

by Matthew on Jan 4, 2009 4:11 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Also, if you're reading this, Tangotiger

You’re ours now. You are not allowed to share your brain with anyone else ever.

by JLC on Jan 4, 2009 4:12 PM PST reply actions 0 recs

If you did not smile at this news, shame on you

by Graham on Jan 4, 2009 4:15 PM PST reply actions 0 recs

I started laughing which was awkward because I was standing outside of the dressing room at the Gap.

by acblue on Jan 4, 2009 4:42 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Phone internet sometimes leads to weird situations.

Big Z is the MAN.

by Taylor H on Jan 4, 2009 4:45 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Well, sorry...

….but I hurt my jaw when it hit the floor….

by rtang on Jan 4, 2009 7:37 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Every reservation I had about GMZ and his staff just vanished.

by BrianL on Jan 4, 2009 4:24 PM PST reply actions 0 recs

Awesome news.

I wish I could read the whole interview. I may have to subscribe for a month just for this interview.

by Happybelly on Jan 4, 2009 4:29 PM PST reply actions 0 recs

I'm still having difficulty comprehending that this is the Mariners

It’s like we’ve been possessed by a competent baseball organization

by Nick S on Jan 4, 2009 4:58 PM PST reply actions 0 recs

Holy crap. What an unbelievable interview.

The meetup is going to be a total lovefest. I might have to go after all.

the other angels fan

by Eyebrows on Jan 4, 2009 5:12 PM PST reply actions 0 recs

You're going to try and harm him in some way, aren't you?

by acblue on Jan 4, 2009 5:16 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Will it be necessary to put the guest speakers behind three inches of bulletproof glass?

by JI on Jan 4, 2009 5:22 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

I can have Ms. ac alert library security if necessary.

by acblue on Jan 4, 2009 5:25 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

So I guess I can throw away this jpeg?

by JI on Jan 4, 2009 5:16 PM PST reply actions 0 recs

Thank God that one didn't come true.

by BrianL on Jan 4, 2009 5:21 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Tango...

So is he M’s property or is he independent where he’ll sell his services to anyone who pays him?

by PLU Tim on Jan 4, 2009 5:17 PM PST reply actions 0 recs

He's a consultant, not an employee

so he’s certainly not M’s property; as to the rest, it depends on the contract terms.

by The Ancient Mariner on Jan 4, 2009 5:22 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

It's wrong to treat a being as property

by JI on Jan 4, 2009 5:25 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

For some reason the key word of that sentence was deleted

that word was “sentient”

by JI on Jan 4, 2009 5:25 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Granted, but you know what he meant.

by The Ancient Mariner on Jan 4, 2009 7:42 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Tango is a slave of the Seattle Mariners

by JI on Jan 4, 2009 8:11 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

:rolleyes:

by The Ancient Mariner on Jan 5, 2009 7:53 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs

In a couple Bill James interviews I've read, he's declined to answer certain questions.

The one that specifically comes to mind was in regards to sunlight reflecting off the Green Monster at Fenway and it’s potential effect on left handed batters. He declined to answer stating the BoSox had him look at that issue and the information he developed was proprietary.

Formerly dpseadvr.

by Kermit. on Jan 4, 2009 8:22 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

The latter, I imagine

by Jeff on Jan 4, 2009 5:23 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Tom Tango?

There is no ceiling!

by ThundaPC on Jan 4, 2009 5:18 PM PST reply actions 0 recs

Let's not go nuts.

by acblue on Jan 4, 2009 5:25 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Nothing bad will ever happen to the Mariners ever again

by Fogel on Jan 4, 2009 5:26 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

We're trading for Chase Utley

by JI on Jan 4, 2009 5:27 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

We can't we already let Raul go

by Fett42 on Jan 4, 2009 5:29 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

I for one, will enjoy watching Albert Pujols everyday.

by Robert on Jan 4, 2009 5:37 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Albert Pujols isn't available for trade you fool.

by JI on Jan 4, 2009 5:38 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Kidnapping

by JLC on Jan 4, 2009 6:05 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

The Mariners are bringing Kevin Pritchard on board as trade master.

Pujols will be the Mariners for Brian LaHair and Phat Andy.

Jeff's guide to not looking stupid:
+/- is an absolutely terrible stat, so don't use it, and don't give up on young players before they turn 24.
54!

by joof on Jan 4, 2009 7:16 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Fat is spelled with an "f" not a "ph"

by JI on Jan 4, 2009 7:20 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

It's actually both. "FPH"

by mikev on Jan 7, 2009 3:42 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

This is super nitpicky in comparison to the towering ascent our front office has gone through in a matter of weeks,

but I’m curious: Are there any reservations about Blengino favoring RZR over BIP metrics, or is that just something that will have to be asked next week?

by Double06 on Jan 4, 2009 6:15 PM PST reply actions 0 recs

No

And this is coming from the guy who has publicly said that we don’t need RZR anymore now that we’ve got UZR on FanGraphs from the same data source.

His point in the interview was that he liked the breakout of RZR as “in zone, out of zone” as separate entities. He then goes right on to mention PMR and UZR, so there’s no chance that he’s just looking at RZR and ignoring everything else.

These guys get it. They really are all we could have hoped for. This won’t be the last time we jump up and down and say “holy crap I can’t believe this is the Mariners we’re talking about.”

by davidcameron on Jan 4, 2009 6:18 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Oh I'm sure he doesn't just use one.

However, I remember you saying that RZR shouldn’t be given much weight anymore so my question came from the different opinions you two have. Thanks.

by Double06 on Jan 4, 2009 6:31 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

I feel like this is too good to be true

my inner pessimist (or since the bavasi era, realist) says the Mariners can’t possibly have something like this start going right. It just isn’t normal, there’s some mistake. It’s just too improbable that we now have such an upper hand in our management and that we may start making intelligent decisions.

And yet, here we are, I’m in shock

by mariners124m on Jan 4, 2009 6:23 PM PST reply actions 0 recs

Wheeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee

by Graham on Jan 4, 2009 6:38 PM PST reply actions 0 recs

This must be some really poorly timed April Fools joke

because good things don’t happen to the Mariners.

But anyway now that we’re making solid decisions, where will people around the league direct their laughter?

by Scrupio on Jan 4, 2009 8:43 PM PST reply actions 0 recs

Houston.

by oc on Jan 4, 2009 8:53 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Dayton Moore is infuriated

have Mike Jacobs, HoRam, and Kyle Farnsworth acquisitions been forgotten so soon?

Bringing you more-or-less replacement level analysis and commentary since sometime in 2008.

by devil_fingers on Jan 4, 2009 9:12 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

So when can we expect Yuni to be traded?

by Wilder. on Jan 4, 2009 8:44 PM PST reply actions 0 recs

Probably when somebody wants to trade for him.

by ThundaPC on Jan 4, 2009 10:24 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

The Battle for Grass Creek is not over!

You dirty Mariner Scum may have Tango, but I’m sure Dayton Moore is hard at work, and will answer with the acquisition of Christina Kahrl and Will Carroll!

Bringing you more-or-less replacement level analysis and commentary since sometime in 2008.

by devil_fingers on Jan 4, 2009 8:45 PM PST reply actions 0 recs

Happy 2009, everybody.

by Two Rs and Two Ls on Jan 4, 2009 8:54 PM PST reply actions 0 recs

Has Tango been used by teams before?

Curious to how the relationship works. Do the M’s tell him upfront what they are going to run by him and he tells them how much it cost? Or do they use him exclusively and pay him enough that the m’s can throw as much shit as they want at him and see what he has to say? Nonetheless, very exciting

by coasty141 on Jan 4, 2009 9:16 PM PST reply actions 0 recs

From the Book blog:

“My involvement is on a consulting basis, not employee basis, so I don’t have as much insight as you might think. I am happy with the direction.”

“Right, I’ve done some consulting work in the past for MLB and NHL. MGL and Andy as well. I think "The Book" also acts as a "brochure" of sorts.”

Every day I hear about Seattle sports' failures. Every night I fall asleep to the sound of my own tears.

by Benne on Jan 4, 2009 10:30 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

So, a sabermetrically inclined FO + an ability to support a $100MM+ payroll,

what’s stopping the Mariners now?

by craig3410 on Jan 4, 2009 10:00 PM PST reply actions 0 recs

roster dead weight.

by Matthew on Jan 4, 2009 10:06 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Hmmm. Sunk cost concept finally understood???

This signature space for rent.

by PositivePaul on Jan 4, 2009 10:10 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

I'd like to think of that as "slowing down"

by ThundaPC on Jan 4, 2009 10:25 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Three more years!

by seattlebruin on Jan 5, 2009 3:12 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Let's not forget: God

by johnbai on Jan 4, 2009 10:31 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Ahem

The pup that laughs when you're down on your luck.

by Scrappy the Scapegoat on Jan 4, 2009 10:32 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

You get your ass back in your cage so we can ship you to Oklahoma.

by BrianL on Jan 4, 2009 10:36 PM PST up reply actions 2 recs

That's either cynical, cruel, or wildly pessimistic.

by The Ancient Mariner on Jan 5, 2009 7:55 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs

You forgot true

by mariners124m on Jan 5, 2009 8:37 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs

In the absence of any clear biblical prophecy to that effect

I see no reason to believe that.

by The Ancient Mariner on Jan 5, 2009 8:56 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Boston Red Sox...

by Edgar for Pres on Jan 5, 2009 12:29 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

This A's fan has only one thing to say

FFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUU

Webmaster of Driveline Mechanics
http://www.drivelinemechanics.com - An Unconventional Look at Scouting

by Kyle Boddy on Jan 5, 2009 12:14 AM PST reply actions 0 recs

Go back to /b/

Fans are typically idiots.

by The Typical Idiot Fan on Jan 5, 2009 12:06 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

I literally do not know how to process this information

This organization has been so bad for so long, and I’ve been watching it be so bad for so long, that I can’t actually bring myself to be optimistic about this off season yet, because a large part of me thinks it’s either some cruel joke or that the best statistical minds in baseball will be lobotomized by the ownership group before being allowed to do their jobs to the best of their ability.

I am fully hoping to be proven wrong, and I expect that I will be – and I can’t wait until I am. I just can’t get my hopes up yet.

Nice Guys Finish Third - Hopelessly lost, but makin' good time.

by pdb on Jan 5, 2009 8:05 AM PST reply actions 0 recs

At least one part of the ownership group

is probably happy…Chris Larson….

by rtang on Jan 5, 2009 8:22 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs

USSM goes deeper into this

http://ussmariner.com/2009/01/05/ms-hire-tom-tango/#comments

by Robert on Jan 5, 2009 9:19 AM PST reply actions 0 recs

As does Tango

http://www.insidethebook.com/ee/index.php/site/comments/cheers1/#comments

by Robert on Jan 5, 2009 9:42 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs

The. Seattle. Mariners. Hired. Tom. Tango.

by Robert on Jan 5, 2009 9:46 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Luckily we get to suffer for a year more before we are good, and even then it's a crapshoot

by JI on Jan 5, 2009 9:53 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Can't wait for Baker's take on this

he will surely have more info on Tango’s role and level of involvement, and possibly on the structure and size of the stats dept in the FO.

by Bearskin Rugburn on Jan 5, 2009 10:21 AM PST reply actions 0 recs

I'm not sure Baker will notice

or consider it worthy of comment if he does.

by The Ancient Mariner on Jan 5, 2009 10:31 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs

He's usually pretty good about reporting

any personnel developments, whether they be players, coaching staff, scouts or whatever. He reads this blog as well as USSM so he will certainly notice. I don’t have any beef with him really.

People seem to think he’s a hack of some sort because he often disagrees with the LL/USSM authors and has reported on the clubhouse atmosphere. I think he’s just doing his job – writing about the things he hears and sees as a beat writer with clubhouse access; as for his analysis… it’s much more thought through and critical than what I was used to, and if it’s sometimes wrong, well, so what? He’s a beat writer not an analyst. I ignore it for the most part.

by Bearskin Rugburn on Jan 5, 2009 11:12 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs

I don't think he's a hack, and I'm not banging on him

It’s just that hiring a consultant can mean as little or as much as you want it to mean, as Bavasi showed with Olkin; as such — unless I’m wrong and Baker is in fact a Tangotiger fanboy — I could easily see Baker thinking nothing of this move until it actually starts to make a difference. Obviously, you don’t sign a guy like Tom Tango and then ignore his work; but to know that, you have to have a sense of who Tom Tango is and how important his work is. If Baker does, then yes, he’ll give this move real play. If he doesn’t, he may not think it matters.

by The Ancient Mariner on Jan 5, 2009 1:31 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Baker has shown a tendancy to pick up on this kind of stuff, though.

A lot of users on his blog discuss the whole “stats versus scouting” thing (which is stupid because they should both coexist in an MLB front office). He has indulged those users in the past with this kind of information.

by BrianL on Jan 5, 2009 1:41 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

That's true

and certainly, there’s enough excitement in this corner of the blogosphere to justify a mention — and enough interesting stuff in Tango’s work to make a really good “introducing him to the rest of the fanbase” post. Good point.

by The Ancient Mariner on Jan 6, 2009 6:57 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs