Rumortown
by Jeff Sullivan on Jan 30, 2009 10:45 AM PST
in Seattle Mariners News, Regular
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PrintHave I thanked Chuck Armstrong lately?
Abreu's agent, Peter Greenberg, confirmed Thursday that he has had ongoing contact with Mariners general manager Jack Zduriencik and assistant GM Lee Pelekoudas.
Greenberg said the M's have imparted to him that they have considerable interest in Abreu but can't afford him — even as his price tag dwindles in a stagnant market — unless they shed salary.
...
"They've been telling us they don't have the money now, but they're trying to make room for a guy like Bobby," Greenberg said. "Both Jack and Lee have told me that Bobby is a perfect fit. He fits the Mariners like a glove."
If the Mariners are right up against their budget, then the only realistic ways for them to make room for a free agent right now involve trading Jarrod Washburn or Miguel Batista. However, there's not a team in baseball that would take either player at his full 2009 salary, meaning the M's would either have to pay a chunk of the money - which still counts against the budget - or package a young player with the pitcher to make his acquisition more palatable - which would remove talent from the organization. Awesome job, Chuck. Way to predict the market.
Who knows. Maybe this is all posturing. But ownership has said that they want to trim payroll to the ~$93-94m range, and right now the current roster adds up to about $92m. That doesn't leave the front office much room at all to maneuver. It's not an impossible situation to navigate, but it is a difficult one, and in order to bring in another bat, it looks like Zduriencik may have to get creative.
When we've complained about overpaying in the past, a common counterargument from people who didn't mind the size of a contract was "when has money ever prevented the Mariners from making a move?" I'd say that argument looks pretty stupid right about now.
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but Jarrod Washburn was too good to just give away
he was a bargain at the price we paid, and teams would line up with offers this offseason.
--Dave
Addicted to Quack, SBN's Oregon Ducks blog
I would laugh and laugh if by some miracle of providence Jarrod Washburn ended up being a Type A and we got two draft picks out of him
by seattlebruin on Jan 30, 2009 5:06 PM PST up reply actions
Just as a rough estimate for what he might need to do...
…I see Gil Meche is basically on the borderline for ‘07-’08, and he had a 3.67 ERA followed by a 3.98 ERA. Overall, that was a 3.82 ERA in 426.3 IP. (I presume that Elias doesn’t use anything more sophisticated than some combo of ERA, IP, and W/L.) Washburn more or less can’t get that many IP, but if he could throw 230 IP this season, I think he would need about a 3.24 ERA to get down to a 3.82 ERA over ‘07-’08. So, yeah, that would pretty much be a miracle. Of course, the last time his contract was expiring…
He may need even more - strikeouts are also included in the 'formula'
Meche had a clear advantage in K’s, so…..
Good call
You never know, though, maybe the prospect of Chavez, Gutierrez, and Ichiro running down everything in the outfield will psyche out the hitters and Washburn will be able to get more K’s. Alright, alright, it’s not happening.
With the economy the way it is now, though, it might be better if Washburn is a type B free agent anyway. His value to other teams won’t decrease and you still get a pick.
You guys really wany to offer
Wash arbitration?
There is no such thing as innocence, only degrees of guilt.
Ok, juts checking.
For a minute there I thought I was in the Twilight Zone. Had me more than just a little nervous.
There is no such thing as innocence, only degrees of guilt.
Which world would you rather live in: Jeff Sullivan's "Rumortown" or Peter Gabriel's "Lovetown"
…from the Philadelphia soundtrack?
I have a pretty concrete answer meself.
As for Chuck Armstrong, I need no convincing w/r/t the damage his stupid ownership-mandated Ks have cost the team. But then again, let’s be honest: the addition of Abreu wasn’t going to propel this team into contention in the 2009 AL West anyway. So even though stupid contracts have indeed shackled us, and even though the myth of the Endless Japanese Cashflow from the M’s ownership has been disproven, the on-field ramifications are thankfully limited at best. Washburn will be a non-fact by 2010, and….well cripes we’ll still have to cope with Silva.
Patriotism, Pepper, Professionalism
Abreu/other DH obviously doesn't make the difference between contender and non-contender
but Abreu/other DH would make us a better team, and right now Jarrod Washburn (and other overpaid nobodies) is getting in the way of that. That’s bad.
I imagine that, if Zduriencik is insistent on getting another bat, he’ll have to trade for one. And the only good bats who don’t cost very much are young guys, which would require that we give up some young talent of our own.
by Jeff Sullivan on Jan 30, 2009 11:01 AM PST up reply actions
Here's the problem though
Is it worth it to give up a young player (even one that may not fit into the future, ala Balentien) in order to modestly improve the DH spot in a year when even the most optimistic projection has us having, what, maybe a 15-20% chance to make the playoffs?
What I’ve liked about what Zduriencik has done so far is that he’s improved the team in the short and long term without having to give up much of the team’s future potential (Valbuena maybe, but getting Cedeno back negates that). I don’t see us as being in a position where suddenly turning that around and dealing young talent for a single year of a league-average DH is a wise move.
I'd rather know a little about a lot than a lot about a little
by Sportszilla on Jan 30, 2009 11:23 AM PST up reply actions
I don't think that we would trade a young player without getting a young player back
We’re not going to package, say, Clement with Washburn just to dump salary.
by Jeff Sullivan on Jan 30, 2009 11:29 AM PST up reply actions
I hope not
But is Abreu even much of an upgrade over our potential DH situation? Granted, it doesn’t look that glamorous, but some combo of Clement/Johjima/Sweeney/other NRI might be able to approximate Abreu’s contribution.
I'd rather know a little about a lot than a lot about a little
by Sportszilla on Jan 30, 2009 11:33 AM PST up reply actions
He'd definitely be an upgrade
Honestly the whole thing depends on what we’d do to make room, and I can’t really speculate on that right now since I don’t know what’s being discussed.
by Jeff Sullivan on Jan 30, 2009 11:35 AM PST up reply actions
So let's say the offer is taking Washburn's salary and Brandon Morrow/other top young player for Denard Span.
Is the flexibility of being able to add another bat and getting a “semi”-star in Span worth the loss of Morrow? Maybe I’m seeing things wrong, but it seems like that the type of deal we’d have to make.
Yesterday's Pants
A blog-thingy about the Mariners and stuff.
by BrettJMiller on Jan 30, 2009 11:43 AM PST up reply actions
Hypothetically, if it were a straight up Washburn/Morrow for Span discussion, then yes, I would probably do it
I don’t know about adding another young player.
by Jeff Sullivan on Jan 30, 2009 11:48 AM PST up reply actions
Oh I meant Morrow or one of the others, not another player.
I just named Morrow because it seems like he’d be the best fit for the Twins in that hypothetical scenario.
Yesterday's Pants
A blog-thingy about the Mariners and stuff.
by BrettJMiller on Jan 30, 2009 11:51 AM PST up reply actions
If I'm not mistaken, Span and Morrow are both under team control for another five years
so where you fall on this hypothetical depends entirely on (A) how you think Morrow adjusts to starting, and (B) where you place Span’s true talent as a hitter. I’m seeing Span as a 3 – 3.5 win player, so Morrow would have to become a pretty darn good starter for that trade to work out better for Minnesota.
by Jeff Sullivan on Jan 30, 2009 11:54 AM PST up reply actions
However
As crowded as the M’s rotation looks now, I have to think it’s less likely to be that way after this year, while the OF might be a bit more of a mess: Hopefully Gutierrez establishes himself, and Ichiro isn’t going anywhere. With Saunders and Halman at least appearing to be approaching an MLB arrival (ok, maybe more Saunders than Halman), I’m not sure I’d be willing to deal Morrow for Span, though I freely acknowledge this is in large part because I’m still somewhat awed by the game Morrow threw against the Yankees.
I'd rather know a little about a lot than a lot about a little
by Sportszilla on Jan 30, 2009 12:16 PM PST up reply actions
Yes
I understand…but I’m not talking about 09 here, I’m talking 2010 and beyond
I'd rather know a little about a lot than a lot about a little
by Sportszilla on Jan 30, 2009 12:22 PM PST up reply actions
Just for the record
Jason said the player being talked about was no Span
Huh
That pretty much excludes the Twins. Delmon Young is a butcher in the field and Carlos Gomez hasn’t had any good seasons offensively. Span’s the only Twins OF who really fits the description in the rumor.
Butcher might be a little extreme
I think Young would be an interesting player to take a chance on. Probably is a bust but still could turn into an interesting player.
by Edgar for Pres on Jan 30, 2009 1:35 PM PST up reply actions
-18.4 UZR last year...
…and he looked like a drunken sailor on skates while chasing down anything that wasn’t routine and some of the chances that were routine. He’s got a good arm and maybe he’s not that bad, but if I was a gambling man, I’d put my money on Delmon finishing 2009 with a UZR around -15.
Having seen him play on a regular basis, I have no idea how scouts were so sold on him. I can’t quite classify exactly what it is about the way that he runs, but the closest I can get at the moment is that when he runs it seems like he’s carrying an invisible 70-pound beer gut. I’m not a fan.
"I have no idea how scouts were so sold on him."
His age 18 and 19 seasons were flat-out amazing.
I think this is either a player development issue or one of the stranger aging curves I’ve ever seen.
I'm kind of on the fence about it and could be persuaded either way
At first and second glances it’s a pretty even swap.
by Jeff Sullivan on Jan 30, 2009 12:24 PM PST up reply actions
I guess I just want to see Morrow for more than 5 starts
I'd rather know a little about a lot than a lot about a little
by Sportszilla on Jan 30, 2009 12:35 PM PST up reply actions
I worry that Span's value will never be higher than it is right now.
I’d move when he has another year of solidly below average performance at the plate (which he did with regularity in the minors).
Maybe Morrow's value will never be higher right now too
by Edgar for Pres on Jan 30, 2009 3:15 PM PST up reply actions
In that vague, hey,-life-is-capricious-and-we-could-all-die-tomorrow sort of way?
Or do you think he’s not suited to starting, what? Is there something specific here?
Really? I'm a little worried
If this year exposes weaknesses, inconsistent command, or has problems with a full workload that could hurt his shiny future. If at the end of the year, we figure out he isn’t suited for starting and is forced back to the bullpen that basically kills his value.
Yeah it probably is unlikely but it wouldn’t surprise me to think back to this time and learn to make sure we don’t get caught up in something. I think Morrow will do well and I really really hope he does well. Like all young SP, I think there is a finite and significant chance that he doesn’t live up to our hopes just like Span also may not live up to Twins fans hopes.
by Edgar for Pres on Jan 30, 2009 4:11 PM PST up reply actions
There's always the possibility of underperformance or an injury
but I think even just 20-25 starts with a high-4s ERA and a bunch of strikeouts would, at the very least, keep his value where it is. And hell, if he doesn’t work out as a starter, he’s still dynamite in relief.
by Jeff Sullivan on Jan 30, 2009 4:17 PM PST up reply actions
Exactly...
What do you suppose his value is right now, E4P? I mean, he was a reliever in the David Aardsma-mold for one year, then had a very solid second year out of the ’pen and then 1 great start and 4 not-so-hot ones.
As long as he’s not replacement level as starter, his value’s going up.
I guess I'm really excited about him
Maybe the general public and MLB is less excited. He had such a high ceiling there has to be front offices who’d love to get him right now.
by Edgar for Pres on Jan 30, 2009 4:48 PM PST up reply actions
True, he is still young enough where he can maintain value
pretty well even if he struggles next year. If he can’t start though I feel like thats probably as close to as big of a hit if Denard couldn’t play defense and had to DH. They still could have value in those positions but the ceiling is so much lower.
by Edgar for Pres on Jan 30, 2009 4:47 PM PST up reply actions
Hm, I didn't realize Span was that good with the stick.
But after a quick look at Fangraphs, despite his .342 BABIP, he had a 25.7 LD%, so maybe his season was real last year. You sold me on him.
Yesterday's Pants
A blog-thingy about the Mariners and stuff.
by BrettJMiller on Jan 30, 2009 12:17 PM PST up reply actions
Don't be too swayed by that
SSS, of course, but there are other reasons.
First Inning has his 2008 LD% at 19, and in any event, he wasn’t an amazing hitter (production, LD, anything) int he minors. Perhaps he’s another Torii Hunter who only translates tools into MLB ability late, but I’m thinking he had one of the best 90 game stretches he’ll have with the bat.
Jeff’s right that he’s still a valuable player even with some regression, but I have no way of knowing what a reasonable guess is on how far he’ll fall.
I think his discipline is good enough to avoid an offensive collapse
He has a good eye, he makes solid contact, and he has more power than you’d expect. He’s probably going to spend his career as an underrated minor star, like our current third baseman.
by Jeff Sullivan on Jan 30, 2009 3:05 PM PST up reply actions
I think Jacque Jones is a better comp than Torii Hunter
Span has an interesting history. Apparently in the low minors, he was still hitting with his hands apart. That still seems ridiculous to me (I mean, who even in HS hits with his hands apart?), but that’s what everyone reported at the time. Then last offseason he had Lasik, which I’m not really sure made a difference, but who knows. He wasn’t promoted super aggressively, but he didn’t linger at any stage in the minors.
Anyway, like Jones, Span will probably play LF since there is a better defensive CF on the same team, he’ll walk some but not a ton, and I think he’ll have some pop. So maybe league average hitter with either a very good glove in a corner or a pretty good glove in center. I would agree that it’s possible that his value won’t ever be higher, but I’m not sure how much value currently-employed GMs place in 90 games worth of hitting.
Interesting
Hadn’t heard that, though to be fair there’s always some ‘reason’ why a player has a good couple of months (“I just point my foot out by 12 degrees on the stride” “I just needed to land on the ball of my foot”).
I just think Span’ll struggle to be a league average bat. He’ll be a league average player, there’s no doubt, esp. if he can play CF.
As for his value, I think a number of people think he’ll be a fine CF, AND that he’ll develop as a hitter in the Crawford/Jones/Hunter mold, based on his entire 2008 (Rochester and MLB). It’s not just that I’m counting on a GM to overvalue his 2008 MLB stats, it’s that he’s suddenly talked about as an uberprospect….
If he plays next year in an OF corner, and regresses at the plate (and I think this is basically a median projection for the guy), THEN he’d be a great piece to trade for.
That seems like a reasonable position
There’s probably a good chance that he won’t look so shiny next off-season.
I do completely agree about there always being some explanation for why a player shows improvement. I think Span’s story is interesting, but I wouldn’t claim that it has everything to do with his performance last year, etc., etc.
That's bad, but it's also pretty much irrelevant
If we were on the cusp of contention this season, then yes I would join you in rending my garments, ancient Hebrew “ZOMG THEY JUST KILLED ABSALOM!”-style. But we’re not. So while this does hurt us in an absolute sense, it doesn’t really make a significant marginal difference in pushing us into the “contender” bracket. And I have faith (this, I suppose, is the lynchpin of my argument) that Zduriencik is neither inclined to shackle us to stupid contracts like Washburn’s in the future, nor will be forced to by ownership. It would seem that he took the job with the understanding that he was to be given a free hand, and nothing he’s done so far, from trading Putz to messing around with the scandalous world of sabermetrics, leads me to believe otherwise.
Patriotism, Pepper, Professionalism
I would argue that we are very close to being on the cusp of contention in the AL West
by Jeff Sullivan on Jan 30, 2009 11:30 AM PST up reply actions
I've read the arguments, and they're superficially convincing...
…but they strike as being far too heavily based on an “if everything goes JUST RIGHT” sort of scenario, where said scenario would only place us on the margins of contention rather than the thick of things. I have slowly come around to the idea that the M’s are far closer to being competitive in 2010 and 2011 than I previously thought (GMZ’s moves have really solidified this…he gives me faith that we won’t crap away what assets we already have), but I’m 95% certain that 2009 is a scratch for us.
It won’t be soul-crushing like 2008 was, since we know we’re making progress, but neither will it be anything but a largely experimental season. In particular, I’m more than willing to write off 2009 JUST for the sake of conducting an “all glove, no power” outfield experiment with Endy/Gutierrez/Ichiro. Endy won’t get a full season’s playing time, of course, but DAMN am I ever interested in seeing the final numbers from that combo.
Patriotism, Pepper, Professionalism
The odds definitely aren't in our favor
but they’re there, and they’re legitimate, and the fact that we’re not trying to win it all in 2009 shouldn’t serve to reduce your outrage over Washburn’s presence on the roster. Get mad.
by Jeff Sullivan on Jan 30, 2009 11:36 AM PST up reply actions
Oh, I got plenty mad last season when he was claimed off of waivers and then pulled back.
I remember when the rumors had it that the Twins were actually offering something of real value like Bonser…I could have skinned Armstrong, Phillips and Bavasi on the spot right there. But even granting that those rumors were false (I think they were), giving Washburn up for mere salary relief would have been worth it alone. Jack Z. wouldn’t have made the same mistake.
Patriotism, Pepper, Professionalism
Fair Value
Washburn’s contract for a case of chew seems like enough of a return. That a younger, cheaper pticher who is at least as good Jarrod still wasn’t enough to dump that contract………………..araghhh! I’ll never get over that one.
We can only hope that things such as this won’t be happening anymore now that it appears we have grownups in charge of the baseball operation.
"If my uniform doesn't get dirty, I haven't done anything in the baseball game."
-Rickey
I know, I acknowledged as much in my post.
For that brief period when I thought there were true, though, it was flayin’ time.
Patriotism, Pepper, Professionalism
Given that I think we (LL/USSM) tend to try and be overly conservative in our projections
in order to try and balance out our inherent biases, I have read no part of any projection we’ve done that is based on a premise of everything going just right.
And when a possible outcome has been discussed where that is the case
It has been openly stated as such. That is what I have seen anyway.
You know, I think this is probably completely right.
But, and aarrgh I hate admitting this, because it’s sort of like revealing oneself to be a Flat Earther or a 9/11 conspiracy theorist (read: irrationally attached to one’s own subjective prejudices)…
…I still can’t shake the gut feeling (HAR!) that said numerical projections, however conscientiously conservative, still locate themselves out on the outskirts of what is possible/probable. I’m not trying to justify this feeling of mine, or claim that it deserves to be considered equally valid next to actual calculated projections; I may be an innumerate lawyer whose sole skill is in slinging words, but I bow to the numbers out of deference to a rationalistic worldview. (Having a theoretical physicist for a father really helped pound this lesson in). That said, it doesn’t change the fact that in my gut I see holes in our rotation, young starters who haven’t proven much, guys like Silva who — promises of regression to the mean notwithstanding — inspire zero confidence, and holes at 1B, C and SS. How you come close to contending with a team like that, even in a weakened AL West division, is hard for me to grasp.
Again, this post is merely an explanation/confession of where I’m coming from, not a counterargument per se. I find myself in a peculiar position, similar perhaps to that of Omerta’s: I have immense respect for sabermetric numbercrunching, and I especially admire the groundbreaking work that you and Graham and Jeff are doing with tRA…but I really am only able to engage with the final output numbers. I take them on a certain degree of faith, confidence in the people behind the metrics, rather than an ability to personally investigate the logic that goes into them. If we were talking about theories of Indo-European language change, or Constitutional Law doctrine, or the history of Stalinist Russia, it would be different. But I’m a position here where I find myself deferring to the experts (you folks) in most situations, whilst also occasionally having to fight the contrary impressions my personal experience gives me.
What a ramble this was.
Patriotism, Pepper, Professionalism
by esoteric on Jan 30, 2009 12:40 PM PST up reply actions 1 recs
Rec'd...
…because I’m feeling the same way. I try my best to understand and digest the analysis, but I’m nowhere near able to. And ultimately – statistics in general deals with probabilities and analyzing past results…
This signature space for rent.
by PositivePaul on Jan 30, 2009 2:55 PM PST up reply actions
And gut feelings are like that too except less accurate because our brains are retarded
by Graham MacAree on Jan 30, 2009 4:02 PM PST up reply actions
I'm well aware of this.
Which is why I’m in the position I’m in.
Patriotism, Pepper, Professionalism
I wonder if it would be possible for GMZ
to pitch that Abreu = contention, if they were to acquire someone like Nick Swisher, and get the extra $$$ needed.
Shit Towne.
I will smash your face into a jelly.
by Phil Hatzenbuehler on Jan 30, 2009 11:15 AM PST up reply actions
I really, really, really hope we would DH Abreu.
His UZR’s pretty awful, if I recall.
Small and manageable sig
by .Taylor on Jan 30, 2009 10:58 AM PST reply actions
There's no way that putting Abreu in LF most of the time would fit in with the rest of this front office's offseason
by Jeff Sullivan on Jan 30, 2009 10:59 AM PST up reply actions
We didn't acquire Endy Chavez to be a pinch-hitter/late-game defensive replacement, after all.
Patriotism, Pepper, Professionalism
=(
http://www.gamespot.com/news/6203936.html?om_act=convert&om_clk=newstop&tag=newstop;title;2
http://www.gamespot.com/news/6203859.html?om_act=convert&om_clk=newstop&tag=newstop;title;4
Fuck you “don’t have the money” =(
There are no good individual basketball statistics.
54!
For what it's worth
based on some approximate projections of playing time, Bobby Abreu as DH would improve this team by something like 1.5 – 2 wins.
Same here.
I am going to put money on the M’s winning the division in Vegas if they get Abreu or Swisher.
If Z could do that, and then trade for Swisher (further cleaning out some of the plurality of pitching options) to play LF
I think we move into the 78-84 win range with enough upside (Bedard, Beltre in contract year, Felix, Morrow, etc) that it might be a pick ’em in the AL West assuming the Angels make no further moves.
If we added those two bats
and still managed to keep Morrow, I would absolutely bet on us to win the West. That’s a team with great defense, a good rotation, and an above average offense.
The salaries would be problematic, though
Figure Abreu + Swisher is going to be 12-15 million. That means you would probably have to fire sale/bundle at least two of three of Washburn, Joh and Beluga Tits, and probably all three. I like GMZ, but if he does that, I’d check to see if he can walk on water.
I think a better option might be to concentrate on getting enough salary space for Swisher + a little extra wiggle room (million or three), then if we are within reach at the All Star break and still needing a bat for DH, make a deal then. You’re likelier to get senior management to authorize the deal, and you will only be paying half of the salary.
by eponymous_coward on Jan 30, 2009 1:38 PM PST up reply actions
Who would you deal for Swisher?
...Snoop Doggy-Dogg... Ya need to get yourself a jobby-job.
by oc on Jan 30, 2009 2:10 PM PST up reply actions
I can't answer this without beginning to rosterbate
But I will say that we have a decent group of catching prospects and low-minor pitchers.
So what does that do for Clement's playing time?
I’m guessing he only gets about 300 PA if Abreu signs with the team.
by Edgar for Pres on Jan 30, 2009 12:16 PM PST up reply actions
Despite what they're saying about Kenji
I have a feeling that Clement will see most of the time behind the dish…they seem to like him.
Yesterday's Pants
A blog-thingy about the Mariners and stuff.
by BrettJMiller on Jan 30, 2009 12:18 PM PST up reply actions
Besides with his already balky knees
it may be to his benefit to split catching duties 50/50 at most.
by Bearskin Rugburn on Jan 30, 2009 12:23 PM PST up reply actions
He could get up to 400-450 no problem, I imagine
he’d get time at DH for those games that Abreu takes the field.
by Jeff Sullivan on Jan 30, 2009 12:26 PM PST up reply actions
New here...
What if we were able to swing a deal for Abreu, gain the marginal increase in production we are expecting, offer arbitration, hope he signs elsewhere and then take the compensatory pick? Has this already been discussed, discredited?
That's obviously a possibility
but there are way too many variables between now and the end of the year to be able to count on that happening.
by Jeff Sullivan on Jan 30, 2009 11:49 AM PST up reply actions
Oh stop being a whiny little punk Jeff
Washburn is making exactly what he should make and it’s a one year deal which makes it a bargain. Throwing him away for nothing is how you take a team that needs to rebuild and make sure it still needs to rebuild five years from now.
Shouldn't be a problem for a smart ownership group
Bump the payroll to 100-101 range, so you can get Abreu for about 8-9 (maybe some incentives, if he’d take that). Then, if the team is out of contention by July, there are plenty of pieces to move to get back under the 95m mark by the end of the year. Washburn, Bedard, Beltre, etc. All would have some value for a few months to somebody. The payroll limit should be seen as a season-long commitment, not some arbitrary number that has to be met on opening day.
If things go better than expected and the team is contending, then the extra $6m was worth it, and could easily be made up with greater attendance/fan interest.
by AnotherAaron on Jan 30, 2009 12:39 PM PST reply actions 1 recs
This makes sense to me
Either the team contends and the money spent on Abreu is made up by ticket sales & merchandise, or the team stinks and contracts are moved in July. Nice point.
Excuse me "Rumor" is spelled r-u-m-o-u-r
Please try to spell correctly ni the future.
by JI on Jan 30, 2009 12:40 PM PST reply actions 1 recs
Because presumably you have a Y chromosome
And also because her songs, “You Make Loving Fun” excepted, were always the weakest of the Buckingham/Nicks version of Fleetwood Mac.
Patriotism, Pepper, Professionalism
But I do agree that being called a woman
is the worst possible insult that can be given.
by JI on Jan 30, 2009 8:32 PM PST up reply actions
taking advantage of kansas city
Let’s hope Z has the idea to call up Dayton Moore and discuss swapping Betancourt./Balentien (heck, or even both) for Kila Ka’aihue. The Royals have no SS, boring veteran OF’s, and a serious logjam at 1B. Ka’aihue would come as an undervaluled cheap 25 y/o bat who’s probably better than Griffey/Abreu anyway.
I don't think he's a better hitter than Abreu.
by Aaron Campeau on Jan 30, 2009 2:10 PM PST up reply actions
Tough call
Depends on how you think Abreu’s going to age.
Bill James’ projection has Ka’aihue beating Abreu handily. CHONE gives the edge to Abreu. Oliver has it even.
Surprisingly close. So yes, I would definitely have Moore on speed dial, trying to pry either Ka’aihue or Butler away. Of course, Ka’aihue would command a higher price given that his 2008 was great, and Butler’s was poor. Still, I think Butler’s a natural hitter who’ll probably do well once he gets out of KC.
I'd rather have Kila, obviously, but I think Abreu is a better hitter next year.
I think the James predictions are laughably bad.
by Aaron Campeau on Jan 30, 2009 2:24 PM PST up reply actions
A .380 wOBA is..... optimistic
I’m not sure what to make of the CHONE projections this year, actually. We’ll see.
(But seriously, we should get either Butler or Ka’aihue. I really don’t care if either of ’em are marginally better/worse than Abreu in 2009).
How bad is Carlos Quentin's defense?
I’ve heard bad, but his UZR is decent. Any thoughts?
PMR has him at just a touch below average for 2008.
Then again, that’s only a touch above Jack Cust.
Rotoworld:
According to the Seattle Post-Intelligencer, the Mariners have joined the hunt for Cubs left-hander Rich Hill.
The Orioles still have “the inside track,” according to the report, but the M’s could entice the Cubs with Jarrod Washburn, Miguel Batista or Carlos Silva. Dumping either one of those highly paid pitchers would also help Seattle clear payroll in its quest for free agent outfielder Bobby Abreu. Of course, this is all just speculation.
Well, maybe it would work out...
…but I wouldn’t get too excited or treat it as little more than a salary dump:
Hill, however, has shown little progress in his attempt to recover from severe control problems. "We saw him three times in Venezuela and he was awful all three times," one rival GM said.
Patriotism, Pepper, Professionalism
Of course, if they could actually clear Washburn's salary, that would be worth it alone.
And my god, if they got the Cubs to swallow most or all of a Silva salary shit sandwich? A massive coup.
Patriotism, Pepper, Professionalism
Like this little gem?
Abreu would not fit very well in the Ms lineup. Who’d ever pitch to him. Wouldn’t have to because there is no threat either ahead or behind him. He would not do a thing for the Ms, unless GM Jack can find another whacker to put in the lineup with him. As for Washburn, Silva and Batista, I say just let them all go. Relaease them but hold their contracts so they can not pitch for anyone else. If someone wants them, take a draft choice if need be, but just get rid of them.
Let’s see.. So he wouldn’t fit because he would get walked everyime? OK, free baserunner every time he is up.. Yes please.
Then just release the trio of pitchers – but somehow get a draft pick for them?
In short… Must Stop Reading Comments.
by seattlesundevil on Jan 31, 2009 5:06 PM PST up reply actions
mlbtraderumors.com
There was a similar comment about lineup protection, and it went on to say that the lack of protection was the reason for Jose Vidro’s decline.
by Rollo Tomasi on Jan 31, 2009 5:12 PM PST up reply actions
If we can trade Washburn or Silva or Batista for a delicious Snickers bar I'd call it a win
Getting a decent upside but risky left handed starter would be an insanely awesome return
Determined, Jonesing Commentor | Proud proprietor of Wyomingroutes.org & Washingtonhighways.org
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