Why Has Defence Been Undervalued?
This offseason has seen a sea change in most teams' approach to roster construction. While there's been an outlier or two (Ibanez getting signed to play in the field really counts as two outliers), we're seeing front offices wise up to players' fielding value. Adam Dunn, one of the better sluggers in the game, is still unemployed at the end of January, and even when he signs it'll be for far below expected monies. In December the Mariners traded their closer in order to totally revamp their outfield, bringing two true centrefielders in to complement Ichiro in Safeco Field. All in all, teams are getting better at both evaluating how good a player is at defence and how that impacts their value to the franchise.
So, why was player defensive ability ever undervalued? What was it undervalued relative to?
The second question is by far the more straightforward, so it'll get answered first: Hitting. Combine the explosion in offence baseball has seen over the last 20 or so years with some fairly robust offensive measurement systems, and it's easy to see why. Teams have had a much better idea of how much a bat is worth, and built their rosters around hitting. Defence was at best a secondary concern - often as an excuse for offensive shortcomings. All glove, no bat players had some respect, but in a just world Adam Everett would have been earned a much larger sum of money over the course of his career.
Hitters are easy to compare to one another, too. They all have the same job, they all step up to the same plate, they are all judged in the same way. From batting average to wOBA, every hitter has been on the same scale. It is simplicity in itself to determine which players are good at hitting, which are bad, and the magnitude of the difference - whether that be in wins or points of batting average. And so we know that there's a massive gap between the hitting ability of a Joey Gathright and an Albert Pujols - we can see that Pujols wipes the floor with Gathright (don't feel bad, Joey, he kicks everyone else's ass too), and the numbers can tell us by how much. In this case it's by about 90 runs. Hitters have such a wide spread of talent that it's obvious glovework is a minor consideration compared to batting talent. Right?
Well, defence is nowhere near as easy to deal with. The advanced statistics which deal with it are in their infancy, and those which everyday fans are familiar with offer no obvious scale like batting statistics do. Errors? For any major league player worth his salt, fielding percentage should be close to one, making it difficult to see any real difference between players via a cursory look, and even when you dig deeper you're not going to be comparing players to all of their peers - you're comparing specialised fielders to one another. For a long time, there has been no reasonable scale to measure gloves.
Unless you've been living in a cave*, you'll know about UZR, PMR, +/-, and assorted other tools developed in order to obtain more accurate defensive measurements. While they're still not very good (or very predictive) compared to the stats we have to gauge offense, they're more advanced than fielding percentage and the like by an absolutely laughable margin. These are more than enough to give us a feel for the difference in defensive ability from one player to the next. Or, more accurately, between one player and the next provided they both play the same position. Oops.
The lack of a real scale is an obstacle, but not the only one. The real culprits here are the positions.
Yes, that is a bizarre assertion to make. Bear with me.
Imagine if each position in the batting order had to do something slightly different. The first spot might have a more difficult job - maybe they only get credit for triples, or some other arbitrary event. The order slowly gets easier and easier to bat in until the ninth spot where they get credited with runs and general excellence for standing around and looking sheepish. Do you think anyone would try to compare hitting talent across all of baseball? Or do you think that we'd just compare 3-hitters to 3-hitters, leadoff men to leadoff men?
It's a fairly clumsy analogy, but I'm sure you can see what I'm getting at. The very best hitters in the above scenario would play in the most challenging slot, and they'd get compared to one another. This will force the perceived difference in hitting talent to be smaller - if the best are competing against the best, there'll be far less separation. This will naturally have an influence on perception of hitting talent, because the spread in value shrinks by a huge amount when you have specialisation in tasks varying from the easy to the absurdly difficult.
Which is exactly what's happened with fielding, for those who haven't quite figured out what on earth my last two paragraphs have been about. We compare shortstops to shortstops and corner outfielders to corner outfielders, and in doing so neglect to properly account for the difference between a shortstop and a corner outfielder. It's an easy step from there to imagining that defence cannot account for very much - it gets measured on small scales while hitting is on a far bigger, universal one. This is why public perception of the impact of defence is so dismissive. They can see a huge gap between the best hitters and the worst, but gloves are much harder to distinguish - they're already segregated into talent groups. Compared to Manny Ramirez, Derek Jeter is a genius with the glove. Pitted against Cesar Izturis, he isn't. Compared to Izturis, Jeter is an outstanding hitter. Look at his bat against Manny's and you have a very different story.
Having positions which require more skill than others really screws up our off-the-cuff perceptions of talent. If we could distill fielding ability to numbers, I wouldn't be very surprised to see a major league spread about as large as that for batting. So let's give that a shot. We can use Tango's positional adjustments to correct for the difficulty in scaling fielders properly, and then use UZR to get an idea of the spread.
Hawpe (LF): -47.7 (UZR), -7.5 (Pos)
Cabrera (SS): +14.2 (UZR), +7.5 (Pos)
The difference between Hawpe and Orlando Cabrera ends up being on the order of 75 runs - not too far off our ML spread of hitting value. The distribution is a little different, but this shows that the run differential between the best and worst gloves in baseball is comparable to that of the best and worst bats.
And yet people are stunned that a player's defence can be meaningful in terms of wins and losses. Blame it on fielding positions.
*I like footnotes
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Color/colour me not surprised
limeys what spell shit wrong
by lemonverbena on Jan 28, 2009 11:25 PM PST up reply actions
So Ibanez is an Outlier in the Outfield?

by Matthew on Jan 28, 2009 10:35 PM PST reply actions 17 recs
I am not too bitter.
It was made before the divisions were split in 3. I don’t think the Mariners were even in that movie.
It appears that the photo that you used was from Raul's first tour of duty with the M's,
as he is seen wearing a hat that was discontinued use in 2001. While I don’t have the particular stats to back me up, one might assume that Raul would have been quite a bit more athletic than he is today and certainly not a defensive liability to the point where you might assume he literally had a hole in his glove while playing a outfield position. I understand what you are trying to get at but for future reference could you try to put a little bit more effort into your photoshops in order to maintain LL’s strive for accuracy. Thanks and keep up the otherwise outstanding work.
by Robert on Jan 28, 2009 10:57 PM PST up reply actions 10 recs
Yore*
(and yes, I’m aware of this game)
This signature space for rent.
by PositivePaul on Jan 29, 2009 11:32 AM PST up reply actions
This made me laugh.
That is good enough for a rec.
Is that the light at the end of the tunnel, or the headlights of an oncoming train?
To properly execute a footnote, you must combine both the asterisk (*) and proceeding footnote dialogue.
Seperating the two with a space ( ) will result in the footnote phrase being bulleted, thus compromising the asterisk and making your footnote look improper. This will humiliate you.
Observe Graham’s technique, however, and you’ll pull it off nicely.
...Snoop Doggy-Dogg... Ya need to get yourself a jobby-job.
One thought is that, until very recently, defense wasn't measured very accurately
Most preceding generations measured defense by fielding percentage, error count and observational evidence of particularly memorable defensive plays.
A lot of teams, scouts, managers, GMs et al may have placed value on defense, but judged defensive ability based on these inaccurate factors.
I think the biggest change
Is that defense is being considered at “non-premium” positions. I think defense has traditionally been valued at C, SS, 2B, and CF, the only problem was that there were no useful objective metrics for measuring D, so guys were considered elite defenders, even if they might not have been. Teams were generally willing to ignore D at 1B, 3B, and the corner OF spots (not every team, with every player, but generally speaking), because it didn’t seem like D mattered much there.
I'd rather know a little about a lot than a lot about a little
This is the starting point for me, when I think of baseball shifting to offense. You want that bat in your lineup, but need to hide the glove.
This also confirms my other notion, that before stats, smart people had a fairly decent handle on the game, and the ordering and placement of guys with plus bats and sub-par defense is a basic, rudimentary grasp of positional adjustments, but that’s probably just crazy talk. Or at best completely irrelevant and unimportant.
This post reminded me of Mr. Tango’s survey. All of the sudden I’d like to know what all he uses that for, I’ve seen some of the results posted. What else is he doing with that? And the more closely (forgive my shitty language usage there, I tried) the fans agree on a player, exactly how important is that? Is it a tool to bring to his attention players worth a closer look? Maybe there’s some interesting uses for it I’m just not creative enough to think of.
There are also specialist defensive skills that people have valued for as long as I can remember
Right fielders needing strong arms, third basemen being good at handling slow rollers down the line, shortstops being able to throw from the hole, those sorts of things.
Right, and the myriad skills assigned to the catcher. They've got a metric crap ton.
I’m really looking forward to seeing technology/metrics develop to the point where the catchers position is clarified. All the arguments around that position. It’s my holy grail, not that I claim the ability to define it. I don’t know where that position rates to the sabre community? Top of the list? Or is there even a list?
What do you think makes a first baseman "good"?
If I remember from Tango’s crowd analysis and a few other metrics people always pegged Richie as being a terrible defender, but I couldn’t help but wonder if the wrong things were being considered. Richie’s height alone probably helped eliminate a lot of throwing errors, particularly when Yuni was lazily side-arming it.
Range in getting to groundballs would be nice.
Handling throws is only one part of a 1B’s defensive responsibility.
I agree
I’m just saying that the speciality skills may offset traditional measures like range. Just saying.
There was a study (someone else dig up the link...)
that showed that being tall is a first baseman skill, and Richie was awesome at it, but it was only worth a few runs per season tops. Also, being tall doesn’t make him any better at digging throws out of the dirt or catching Yuniesky Betancourt fourth-row missiles
by seattlebruin on Jan 29, 2009 11:56 AM PST up reply actions
Yes, but being tall also decreases the distance thrown
and gives greater opportunity deciding where in a throw to scoop a hop (short or early). How was the study done? I’d be curious to read it. Know who did it? I can at least do my own googling.
Ask Matthew
he’s the brilliant one round these parts
by seattlebruin on Jan 29, 2009 11:59 AM PST up reply actions
Long arms AND long legs, both typically correlated with being tall.
And while not as valuable as lateral range, I’m curious to know how MUCH less valuable.
According to PMR, between 2006-2008, Pujols was +82 at 1B and Sexson was -22.
For purposes of illustration, let’s say that those ratings reflect only range and that Sexson’s height advantage changes his overall PMR from -22 to -12. Let’s also assume that Pujols is a mirror image here, and that when you factor in height his rating goes from +82 to +73.
Those assumptions all overstate the advantage of height (and they also understate Pujols defensive ability, but whatever, this is all theoretical.)
So, the difference between the best defensive 1B on the planet and Sexson goes from 104 plays over three years to 85 plays over three years. Change Pujols to a league average defender and the gap goes from 22 plays to 12. And that’s making a lot of assumptions which are almost certainly not true that help the argument that height is underrated as an asset for 1B.
by Aaron Campeau on Jan 29, 2009 12:55 PM PST up reply actions
Thanks
For real this time. This is a good way to think about it.
My original question though was just how speciality skills like being tall, scooping, stretching, are factored into defensive ratings for first basmen. I wasn’t saying that Richie was good or that height was underrated, I just wondered to what degree those speciality skills or characteristics affected things like PMR. It doesn’t seem like you see many “professional” first basemen at the big league level like you do with other positions, so it stands to reason that defense at a position like first base might be particularly undervalued.
Plays are plays, no matter how they're made.
I would imagine that the most a player’s height could add to his defensive value without being reflected in PMR would be a two or three plays a year.
by Aaron Campeau on Jan 29, 2009 1:11 PM PST up reply actions
It applies the Wisdom Of Crowds methodology to defensive evaluation
which should, in theory, provide another important data point.
by Jeff Sullivan on Jan 29, 2009 11:00 AM PST up reply actions
Not to be a dick
But defense is spelled wrong.
Graham's English
this has been covered before. This is probably not a road you want to walk down.
Nice Guys Finish Third - Hopelessly lost, but makin' good time.
What, no Cricket incorporated into the analogy?
For an English dude I thought for sure your positional hitting analogy would have made some mention of Cricket. Maybe the misspelling of the title would have made it seem too obvious.
My understanding is that a Cricket batting order is assigned in this way
That there are different skill sets assigned to different positions in the order and so lead-off hitters are compared to other lead off hitters.
At least, that’s how the drunk South African at the bar I was at explained it to me. I could be way off.
There is some truth to what you're saying
but it’s not really applicable to baseball.
So a cricket team will want good defensive batsmen at the top of their lineup because they will have to face the best bowlers to start the innings. Also, many of the top bowlers are fast bowlers and the new cricket ball that you start off with will bounce truer and faster, so you need yours openers to defend their wickets well, without putting too many hits in the air, to both soften the ball a little bit and wear down the bowler, in addition to trying to score as many runs as possible. Usually they don’t get a lot of boundaries though.
Then you get to the middle batsmen who generally will try to score runs more aggressively, and part of how well they can do that is determined by how good their openers were at wearing into the bowler and beating up the ball during their overs.
The big similarity is that on most teams, the wicket-keeper and bowler are the worst batsmen and usually bat last. The other thing to keep in mind in a cricket lineup, is that you want to keep your good sprinters together wherever possible for trading wickets. It does no good to have a lightning fast striker if your non-striker is slow as molasses.
Did you know that all Mexicans eat burritos and wear sombreros?
by JI on Jan 29, 2009 12:06 PM PST up reply actions 1 recs
it's right there
under your copy of “Stand-Up Comedy – The German Way!”, next to “The French Guide To Working Harder, Not Smarter”, and over there with “Lazy National Stereotypes For Fun And Profit”.
Nice Guys Finish Third - Hopelessly lost, but makin' good time.
This sounds curiously opposite of the Engineer's Bible, The Guide to Working Smarter, not Harder
The French Guide To Working Harder, Not Smarter
by seattlebruin on Jan 29, 2009 1:07 PM PST up reply actions
I thought the French just discussed the idea of work over wine and cheese.
by Sec 108 on Jan 29, 2009 1:10 PM PST up reply actions 1 recs












