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Around SBN: Trent Richardson Interviews Fellow Brown Brandon Weeden

Why Graham is Wrong

Tiny by diderot on

First of all, if you never saw Jim Rice play, you have to admit some degree of ignorance on the issue.

Second, setting up a premise that Jim Rice doesn't belong in the Hall and Beltre does is ridiculous because, last time I checked, Beltre was still an active player, and thus not capable of being denied induction.

Third, if you want to rely on statistics, you can't cherry pick.  Either results matter or they don't.  Sure, you can claim Rice being and All Star eight times and winding up in the top five in MVP balloting six different times must be the result of sportswriter bias--even though they saw him play, and I'm guessing most people on this site never did.

But look a little deeper.  Forget two RBI championships and three HR championships...maybe that was just luck. 

He was a top four performer in OPS four different times...and if you bother to look at  Baseball Reference for his player comps at each age of his 16 year career, ten times you'll find the names Willie Mays, Duke Snider, Billy Williams and Orlando Cepeda.  Each of them is already in the Hall...I saw them all play and agree that they belong there.  (And that doesn't count the multiple year comps for Dick Allen, who might also have been a viable candidate if he hadn't been 'a bad actor with attitude'.)

Just for the record, I am not now nor ever have been a Red Sox fan.  But to ignorantly deny entry to a guy you never saw...who's got the resume...is truly sad. 

 

Comment 703 comments  |  2 recs  | 

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yeah

he was also the most feared hitter!!!!!!

replacement level analysis

by 442 on Jan 15, 2009 7:37 PM PST reply actions  

No shit

HA HA HA, your Grandpa's an ASS!- Tourette's Guy (R.I.P)

by tootthekazoo on Jan 15, 2009 7:44 PM PST up reply actions  

Done

HA HA HA, your Grandpa's an ASS!- Tourette's Guy (R.I.P)

by tootthekazoo on Jan 15, 2009 8:00 PM PST up reply actions  

DAMMIT

HA HA HA, your Grandpa's an ASS!- Tourette's Guy (R.I.P)

by tootthekazoo on Jan 15, 2009 8:02 PM PST up reply actions  

OH NO

The Tourette’s guy died?!?!

http://marinersmania.com/forums

by outtathequestion on Jan 17, 2009 12:14 PM PST up reply actions  

And now we wait

Big Z is the MAN.

by .Taylor on Jan 15, 2009 7:46 PM PST up reply actions  

RBI and HR titles are dependent on the other athletes in the league

Not to mention that RBI is not a worthwhile stat in evaluating a player’s worth.

Before going any further I suggest you read up on statistics at a site like StatCorner or FanGraphs. Like it or not you won’t convince anyone here by citing RBI, HR, and OPS.

Have a great day. =)

by katal on Jan 15, 2009 7:44 PM PST reply actions  

Yes

The only way you win a HR title is if you have more HR than the rest of the league.

by katal on Jan 15, 2009 8:16 PM PST up reply actions  

Nope. You have to adjust for leagues.

Yet I’m still not going to elect someone to the Hall because they hit 20 HR in 1930. Or because they hit 39 HR in 1983.

by katal on Jan 15, 2009 8:31 PM PST up reply actions  

When has that happened in the past 30 years?

We don’t know exactly but the talent level in MLB has been consistently high enough to refute this type of argument.

by Edgar for Pres on Jan 15, 2009 8:19 PM PST up reply actions  

I find this fact reprehensible

People of small stature are people none the less. Way to make light of something that was a horrific injustice. You might be ok with this and the Atlanta Black Crackers but I am not. Not at all.

by Robert on Jan 15, 2009 7:49 PM PST up reply actions   1 recs

See that's just funny

You put wings on him and he’s a little human bat

by Robert on Jan 15, 2009 8:03 PM PST up reply actions   1 recs

He's busy choking Agent Ginger again

HA HA HA, your Grandpa's an ASS!- Tourette's Guy (R.I.P)

by tootthekazoo on Jan 15, 2009 8:03 PM PST up reply actions  

with his freedom

I DRINK YOUR MILKSHAKE!!! I DRINK IT UP!!

by abender20 on Jan 15, 2009 8:05 PM PST up reply actions  

Honestly

I think the people who did

see Jim Rice play have to admit some degree of ignorance on the issue.

I also think if you want to flat-out declare someone wrong, you need to make a serious, in-depth argument that actually engages with what they’re saying, rather than merely dismissing it. As it is, since you’ve never seen Graham write, I think you have to admit some degree of ignorance on the issue.

by The Ancient Mariner on Jan 15, 2009 7:59 PM PST reply actions  

soooooo.....

No club LL then?

NEEDS MORE FREEDOM!

by Scruffy Lefty on Jan 15, 2009 8:01 PM PST up reply actions  

June 19th!

HA HA HA, your Grandpa's an ASS!- Tourette's Guy (R.I.P)

by tootthekazoo on Jan 15, 2009 8:20 PM PST up reply actions  

AHAHAHAHA!

Big Z is the MAN.

by .Taylor on Jan 15, 2009 8:24 PM PST up reply actions  

So just to sum up the major points here:

All Star game appearances:Irrelevant
MVP Balloting:Irrelevant
RBI’s:Irrelevant
HR Championships(HR Derby championships?):Mostly Irrelevant
Age related player comps:Irrelevant
If you did or didn’t see the man play:Irrelevant

by Goose on Jan 15, 2009 8:03 PM PST reply actions  

There are billions of things wrong with MVP balloting

but I think it works fairly well for HOF nominees. If you get in the top 5 usually then you are a pretty good player. I like to see a player who has had a very high peak (MVP) and a period of around 5 years where they dominated the league. They also need a long career.

MVP votes doesn’t always work but I think in combination with the stats you have, it can be a useful contribution as long as you realize what it tells you and the problems with it.

Jim Rice…probably not quite good enough. Close though probably.

by Edgar for Pres on Jan 15, 2009 8:15 PM PST reply actions  

I have seen Willie Ballgame play

therefore he should be in the hall, I never saw Rickey Henderson play therefore he is not hall-worthy

by Flamefox111 on Jan 15, 2009 8:16 PM PST reply actions  

It's Always Sunny In Philadelphia GIFS

YES!!! A friend of mine has a green man costume.. breaks it out and the most random social times. I highly recommend someone get one of those!

by seattlesundevil on Jan 15, 2009 8:46 PM PST up reply actions  

I <3 Charlie Kelly

I DRINK YOUR MILKSHAKE!!! I DRINK IT UP!!

by abender20 on Jan 15, 2009 8:20 PM PST up reply actions  

I wish it looked like he was saying Die-uh-beet-is

Because that dude looks a lot like Wilford Brimley

HA HA HA, your Grandpa's an ASS!- Tourette's Guy (R.I.P)

by tootthekazoo on Jan 15, 2009 8:28 PM PST up reply actions  

A helpful hint to Diderot:

I’m rarely wrong, and when I am the correct argument is generally offered up by persons of rather higher calibre than yourself. Don’t try to correct your betters next time.

by Graham MacAree on Jan 15, 2009 8:25 PM PST reply actions  

This is really pretentious.

I know you’re a mod here and have a lot of highly respected baseball writing and analysis out there, and you could certainly kick my ass in a baseball argument. But if I were new here this would make me not want to come back. At least give a one sentence response as to why you don’t accept his argument instead of saying “I’m smarter than you, don’t even try to argue with me.”

Not sure if this will filter through all of the awesome randomness and GIFs in this thread…but I thought I would say it.

by appleshampoo on Jan 15, 2009 9:09 PM PST up reply actions   1 recs

Because it would help a new person

or a less intellegent baseball fan understand what is wrong with the post. At least a link to something…anything.

by appleshampoo on Jan 15, 2009 9:11 PM PST up reply actions  

It is the front post on the front page

If reader didn’t find that they’re an idiot

Determined, Jonesing Commentor | Proud proprietor of Wyomingroutes.org & Washingtonhighways.org

by Corco on Jan 15, 2009 9:12 PM PST up reply actions  

It is so so so so so easy to learn from LL, USSM and the rest of the smart baseball blogosphere.

The information is out there. If you don’t take advantage of it before calling out an author, you deserve whatever you get.

by Aaron Campeau on Jan 15, 2009 9:14 PM PST up reply actions  

`
But if I were new here this would make me not want to come back.

Pretty sure that’s the point.

by Matthew on Jan 15, 2009 9:11 PM PST up reply actions  

Okay okay

My initial thought was, hey here’s some guy making a stupid argument. Do we point him to some resources and point out his errors and encourage him to learn, or shun him and make him never come back? I thought this was random new guy on the street. If I had known the history, I wouldn’t have posted my post.

by appleshampoo on Jan 15, 2009 10:50 PM PST up reply actions  

Holy shit

How have I not ever seen that?

HA HA HA, your Grandpa's an ASS!- Tourette's Guy (R.I.P)

by tootthekazoo on Jan 15, 2009 8:30 PM PST up reply actions  

Seems like a good place to put the GIF

But I have used my allotment of it for the year.. Once is enough.

by seattlesundevil on Jan 15, 2009 8:59 PM PST up reply actions  

Good thing you were the only one that thought of it

HA HA HA, your Grandpa's an ASS!- Tourette's Guy (R.I.P)

by tootthekazoo on Jan 15, 2009 8:59 PM PST up reply actions  

Hahahaha

HA HA HA, your Grandpa's an ASS!- Tourette's Guy (R.I.P)

by tootthekazoo on Jan 15, 2009 8:58 PM PST up reply actions  

I don't have to get up until 6:30 tomorrow morning

and there’s a 40 in my fridge

Determined, Jonesing Commentor | Proud proprietor of Wyomingroutes.org & Washingtonhighways.org

by Corco on Jan 15, 2009 8:59 PM PST reply actions  

I almost let out a girlish squeal of delight when I saw the title of this post.

I just had to say that. I will now start reading it all. This is going to be so good.

the other angels fan

by Eyebrows on Jan 15, 2009 9:00 PM PST reply actions  

It was pretty good.

It would have been better if he stuck around and posted. The gifs saved it.

the other angels fan

by Eyebrows on Jan 15, 2009 9:23 PM PST up reply actions  

but incredibly gutless

The least you can do if you put up a post like this is stand there and take your beating like a man.

Nice Guys Finish Third - Hopelessly lost, but makin' good time.

by pdb on Jan 15, 2009 9:26 PM PST up reply actions  

Jumpin' jesus on a pogo stick

I have to pick tonight to have a life? I need to never leave the computer.

Nice Guys Finish Third - Hopelessly lost, but makin' good time.

by pdb on Jan 15, 2009 9:02 PM PST reply actions  

SEE YOU IN HELL

by Robert on Jan 15, 2009 11:00 PM PST up reply actions  

bwahahahaha usc beat your boys up good tonight

but that’s of limited solace since UA is currently getting their asses handed to them by UCLA.

Nice Guys Finish Third - Hopelessly lost, but makin' good time.

by pdb on Jan 15, 2009 9:29 PM PST up reply actions  

I'm just hoping UA breaks 40 points

doesn’t look terribly likely at the moment but there’s still time.

Nice Guys Finish Third - Hopelessly lost, but makin' good time.

by pdb on Jan 15, 2009 9:30 PM PST up reply actions  

I have a hard time with the UA losing a lot

I mean.. the personal side of me loves it, but the fact that we sell a shit ton more papers the day after a UA win always grinds on me.. Lord knows we need all the sales that we can get. At least this loss is expected

by seattlesundevil on Jan 15, 2009 9:33 PM PST up reply actions  

Yeah, it's not too surprising

the magnitude of it is a bit distressing at the moment, though. They’ve looked halfway decent for most of the year, and capable of putting up a fight at least. Ah well.

Nice Guys Finish Third - Hopelessly lost, but makin' good time.

by pdb on Jan 15, 2009 9:34 PM PST up reply actions  

Wait, really?

who is this team that’s beating Arizona? They look pretty good!

by seattlebruin on Jan 15, 2009 9:35 PM PST up reply actions  

Good timing

You’re kinda in the same (but opposite) position.. Rival wins, you win rather than the we lose rivals lose conundrum

by seattlesundevil on Jan 15, 2009 9:36 PM PST up reply actions  

Hey fuckers

dont hide threads until the zanarchy ends

by Robert on Jan 15, 2009 9:30 PM PST reply actions  

Hey fuckers

dont hide threads until the zanarchy ends

by Robert on Jan 15, 2009 9:30 PM PST reply actions  

The annoying part is I've been sober since New Years

The lack of alcohol is fucking with me

Determined, Jonesing Commentor | Proud proprietor of Wyomingroutes.org & Washingtonhighways.org

by Corco on Jan 15, 2009 9:34 PM PST up reply actions  

This is the longest I've been sober in at least a year

I do have 2 gallons of vodka and a 40 in the fridge though

Determined, Jonesing Commentor | Proud proprietor of Wyomingroutes.org & Washingtonhighways.org

by Corco on Jan 15, 2009 9:36 PM PST up reply actions  

god me too

but once school starts up again that’ll be remedied

---
Juuuust a bit outside!!
http://www.rightfieldbleachers.com

by Jack Moore on Jan 15, 2009 9:42 PM PST up reply actions  

except for Felix

Determined, Jonesing Commentor | Proud proprietor of Wyomingroutes.org & Washingtonhighways.org

by Corco on Jan 15, 2009 9:37 PM PST up reply actions  

All the cool people in Laramie hang out there

It’s so awesome they have ham salad and low prices

Determined, Jonesing Commentor | Proud proprietor of Wyomingroutes.org & Washingtonhighways.org

by Corco on Jan 15, 2009 9:42 PM PST up reply actions  

You haven't been to Laramie lately have you

I wish I were kidding but everyone and their dog is at the Laramie Wal-mart. It really is the hottest place in town

Determined, Jonesing Commentor | Proud proprietor of Wyomingroutes.org & Washingtonhighways.org

by Corco on Jan 15, 2009 9:44 PM PST up reply actions  

Laramie is essentially a university and a Wal-Mart

and nobody hangs out at the university at night

Determined, Jonesing Commentor | Proud proprietor of Wyomingroutes.org & Washingtonhighways.org

by Corco on Jan 15, 2009 9:46 PM PST up reply actions  

Everybody in town shops at Wal-Mart, that is for absolute sure

There’s not really anywhere else to buy stuff. All the cool people go there because there’s NOWHERE ELSE TO GO unless they drive all the way to Denver

Determined, Jonesing Commentor | Proud proprietor of Wyomingroutes.org & Washingtonhighways.org

by Corco on Jan 15, 2009 9:48 PM PST up reply actions  

That is pretty cool

Determined, Jonesing Commentor | Proud proprietor of Wyomingroutes.org & Washingtonhighways.org

by Corco on Jan 15, 2009 10:06 PM PST up reply actions  

What

the other angels fan

by Eyebrows on Jan 15, 2009 10:41 PM PST reply actions  

I miss all the fun stuff.

Why did the chicken cross the road?
Kenji Johjima couldn't catch him.

by kevin_ess on Jan 16, 2009 9:41 AM PST reply actions  

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